Torque VS Cadence Pedal Assist eBike PAS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- How do they work? What's the difference? Find out in this installment of Blue Monkey Bicycles' VS series!
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Very good explanation of these systems. Thank you.
Very well explained. Thanks.😎👍👍👍
Excellent explanation, and comparison!👍
Thanks
Perfect explanation on the differences, thank you!
Also a1 humor as well 🤣
Love the 3rd strike motif
Let's get it on now!
Very Good video
I've got a 2009 Gazelle Innergy that has a torque sensor type input.
It used to work,
but I had the back wheel rebuilt because the Nexus gear hub broke,
But it has not worked since then.
Perhaps the Torque sensor has been knocked out of adjustment?
The problem is there does not seem to be a Gazelle Dealer here in the UK with relevant older bike experience to be able to fix it.
Great info. Thanks.
Great video!!
Great video man!!
Great explanation, thanks.
Can I install another cadence sensor on the other side where the chain is? I want to install another hub motor but Im not sure if i can use the same sensor or not, unless its the same rated motor (350w).
My 2012 Stromer uses a TMM4 torque sensor that still works well with a cracked sensor template, bent derailleur hanger and derailler. I replaced the sensor plate and rear derailleur; PAS was very sluggish and poor. Re-installed original damaged parts and PAS worked great. Is there an adjustment screw on the sensor? Hate to fiddle with it since the bike runs fine, even on damaged sensor plate.
I know my comment here is a little late on this video but I'm relatively new to e-biking, and dealing with wanting to pedal along with my hub motor only to realize I mostly can even pedal fast enough to add value I now have a question about an obvious short coming of all e-bike controllers and displays. I've recently ordered new front and rear gear sets for my 24 speed mountain bike to allow me to give pedaling value back to my motors energy use. As I researched the gearing ratio options, all knowledgeable bike riders recommend shifting decisions based on your pedaling cadence RPM's. There are even cadence RPM monitors marketed to bikers to assist with shifting decisions. So here's my question, why do none of the e-bike controller displays show cadence RPM? It is very important information that could be displayed, but is totally overlooked.
i have a 12 magnet cadence peddle assist and it serves my fine,had no problem with it to date.
I have a solid magnet disk and I think a 2 piece crank I am assuming I install on the Sprocket side... and not on the other side like the Split-ring dose otherwise I would have to take the pedal off and slide the Disk down the shaft.... my kit came from china with zero instructions I worked out the critical wiring by process of elimination but I still have about 3 plugs I am unsure of...
Great now I know the difference
I test road some bikes recently and found that Cadence sensor on some bikes kick in suddenly at slow speed when i start pedaling; especially if im already in a low gear where there is more pedaling motion. I don't like that jerky motion. To counter-act this, i would have to start the bike at a high gear to slow the rotation or ghost pedal slowly, which is a bit counter-intuitive.
Every bike I know has the torque sensor integrated.
My bike is the Flyer T8-premium (With 584 Wh battery)
The Flyer T8 premium contains 2 sensors. The torque sensor that registers how much force I put on the pedals. And it has a cadence sensor.
The cadence sensor measures my pedaling speed.
At 70RPM the support will decrease. And at 28km/h, the motor will stop assisting.
I can easily determine my speed by driving in a certain gear. My bike is equipped with a Shimano NEXUS-8.
I love my class 3 cadence with a thumb throttle.
I have the cadence system. I enjoy it a lot but I do not like the feeling of peddling air. I can get a high enough gear to out peddle the motor. And I'm not sure if it's the sensor or the motor, but when I have it turned off riding like a normal bike, the motor seem cause drag slowing me down. Great video, thanks for the information!
It’s called ghost pedaling it doesn’t feel like you’re in control that’s one thing I don’t like
I have a small motor 250 watts, on a single speed belt drive that uses a cadence system. I discovered my cadence slows down on hills and long inclines, and that sends a signal to the motor I want less power assist. I did not know I need a Torque Sensor when I purchased my e-bike. I am guessing if I had a 1,000 watt motor with a throttle it would not matter, but my motor should provide some assistance...
Very good explanation.. make more videos.
Thanks! Please share this video with all your friends. The more popular I get the more resources I have to make more.
From where I can find torque based sensor ?
I have the cadence sensor on mine. It feels like being in cruise control because mine seems to be based on speed. I set it at pas 3 and it essentially provides enough power to go about 11.5-12.5 mph when you are pedaling. If you pedal hard you go more towards the top of the range and if you pedal lightly you’ll go more to the bottom of the range.
It’s fine for the bike trail where it’s nice to cruise along at a constant speed but I think in general the torque sensor is probably better and more natural. I don’t have any experience with it though.
Cruise control is a good way to describe the feeling.
My ebike has a torque sensor. It's a Bolton Blackbird. It has a 25 amp KT controller and am thinking of upgrading to a 35 amp KT controller. My question is, will my torque sensor still function? I'm assuming staying with a KT controller is necessary.
@Blue Monkey Bicycles
Which electric motor for eBikes has 10-16kg/m torque and Top Speed not more than 50km/h;
Hi, great explanation, I have a 2015 BH Easy Motion Jumper mountain bike and can’t work out how to clear an error 3 from my controller and I have been told that it could be the torque sensor or the battery but I having difficulty finding someone on Sydney Australia that can assist me. Do you have any thoughts on this issue based on your knowledge and experience. Thanks and would appreciate any advice you can give. Cheers
TQ sensing. It's what I feel best with ...
Me too
Does the kclamber torque Sensor also double as a torque cam preventing the hub motor from spinning out of the rear drop outs. I have a 1000w gearless Front hub motor which tore my front forks apart even with torque cam installed. I am considering a rear 1000w instead. They tell me that the rear dropouts are considerably stronger than the front ones.
You'll need a torque arm to prevent ripping apart the dropouts, yes. I don't believe the torque sensor acts as one.
Mine is cadence and it does not kick in until a quarter turn or so turn of the pedals. This is actually good because it avoids unwanted false starts, like when you are moving really slowly and only need to nudge the pedals.
I use my rear brake lever like a clutch, slight touch and it cuts the motor
Good idea.
I appreciate a lot your video. Glad you asked if we need a video of any related subject. I do, 😅. Can you make a video where you help us diyérs find the right controller for adding the torque sensor function?, to my limited understanding of robotics and motion control, the torque sensor is like an analog signal which is actually converted to digital but it’s a dynamic signal, variable. On the other hand the cadence sensor is just a digital I/O signal. I see Kelly controllers have both options but it seems like you give up the display for some reason, at least the ones capable of reading torque, and the only one with display is the KLS model but their specs don’t mention torque sensor capability. KT mentions torque sensor imitation, that confuses me. My bad not contacting them and asking, it’s a bad habit I have to waste time challenging myself to find the answers, but here I’m , I guess I gave up LOL. Thanks bro.
tq
I'm on a Torque sensing ride with a 7 speed casette, and it's fine for what it's meant to do: commute long distances at a regular pace regardless of the terrain.
But, I also ride a BMX, and my town is filled with Fixie fanatics. For that kind of rider with no gears to go through, the Cadence assist makes more sense because it shares the same virtues: Simplicity, durability, and it's cheap.
When I look at Lithium's little Super 73 Z, I see a BMX eBike. It's a single speed, fat tired, flickable bike with no fancy shenanigans. But they left pedal assist out to entice buyers with a low sticker price, so you either pedal or you run pure throttle. I can understand that's the cheap way to go, but a simple, cheap Cadence assist toggle would have gone a long way by getting more distance out of a very anemic battery. It would be brainless, bulletproof and cheap, which is why many people ride fixed gear bikes in the first place. That's about the only scenario when I could see a pure Cadence triggered motor making the most sense.
Hi. One question if I may. Is it possible to replace a cadence PAS with a torque system? Would the electronic control unit have to be changed too?
The controller would have to change, yes. Mounting a torque sensor is much harder than mounting a cadence disc.
Isn't it the case that if you have a torque system with a 4mph 'walk mode' and you keep this pressed while rotating the crank with minimal effort the motor will give you full power just like the cadence system? thats what i read on the Wisper website anyway.
I'm planning to install pedal assist on my bike but I don't have a diagram for the connection of pedal assist sensor, the battery and motor. I appreciate if you can provide me a diagram.. thank you
So, I can't find even 1 video that answers this question.
Does a cadence sensing system actually sense cadence? Or, does it simply sense movement? IOW, does pedaling faster or slower increase the amount of pedal assist or is it only the PAS setting that does that?
You talk about the torque sensor in the back about being set to high or low? My torque sensor has a small gap between it and the small cog. This is my second torque sensor. It has 3 bolts holding it on, I see no where that you can set them?? Thanks for the video. I have a surface 604 Shred.
How old is the bike?
I have a Himiway Cruiser with a cadence sensor and it rides perfect with no delays and it is very smooth with plenty of power. I love it. I also have a Himiway Bigdog with a cadence sensor and it has such a long delay and the motor stays on after you stop pedaling for a full 2 seconds if not longer which I find it to be a safety hazzard. I hate it. Does anyone know how to get rid of this delay? Thankyou.
I returned my aventon ebike because as soon as I push on the pedal, the bike will shoot forward super fast and I didn't feel safe. That must have been torque sensor right? If I want more of a slow subtle boost, I should get the cadence? Did I understand it right?
The torque sensor was probably out of tune.
It can be fixed, but it's a specialty fix, and it's not easy.
Cadence sensors are more reliable, in my experience.
That's not even a discussion, because torque is the only way
Don't climb using high gears! :)
I fitted a kit to my bike and I have a question about the voltage dropping off when you get to about 25mph. Its a hub 500w motor and I have turned the limiter off. I notice the voltage starts dropping off around 23mph and by 27mph I am on my own. 23 is fast enough but I would just like to know if this is normal. I assume the motor cannot spin any faster and stops asking for power but would just like to know
Unless your motor has a limiter, it's actually your battery sagging under the load.
I have that same problem and thought that.. is riding with the sag bad on the battery?
@@Jonmc511 since my bike was impounded by the police after they caught me at 25 miles an hour. This is not a problem anymore😢. I tried to argue that this was under my own power but just assisted up to 23 miles an hour but they didn't believe me. Before this I did take the battery apart and it was not as big as the label stated. I think if I had added two more cells to each of the series batteries , I would have had no problem. However I am still waiting to get it back.
Thanks Mike for explaning this booth system, i want to know fromyou that which make torque sensor is you have show in video, please replay comment soon, thanks again mike
The company that makes the torque sensor is called: kclamber
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles BTW do you know how to adjust the torque sensor? We have notice some of our bikes with different pedal sensitive. On kclamber website and we would like to know more about this Tq sensor. Many thanks and great work.
You'd have to ask kclamber for more details. I have a TH-cam video about them, it might have a contact email on the description.
I know how to adjust the old TMM sensors from bikes around 2014-2017
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles alright! ✌️ 😎best love from Lisbon💕
How do you adjust the older TMM torque sensors? Thanks for the video 😀
Hi Mike, could you tell me the maker of that alum Torque sensor in your video? Is that a rear dropout?
Tmm is what I've heard it called
Thanks, I found it on TH-cam TMM4 Gen2 torque sensor.
I have tried out a few ebikes in my quest to buy one, I need to excersize my ankle but so fat each bike I have tried has taken over and left me with inadequate excersize, is this because the bikes I have tested are candence?
That sounds about right. Call around to some local shops and see if they have any bikes powered by the following:
Bosch
Shimano
Yamaha
Specialized
Trek eBike (Bosch)
Giant eBike (Yamaha)
Bafang M600
Bafang M620 (often called the Bafang ultra motor)
Great video. Do you know what type of sensor the BaFang BBSHD has? Thanks.
Sam Bananas Pretty sure it's a cadence sensor.
Yes. It has only the cadence sensor. I heard talk they may incorporate a torque sensor for it though.
Man, really? That would be amazing! Great reviews on the BBS02 and BBSHD. I'm looking to purchase the HD in the spring for my folding 20 inch fatbike. (Voltbike - Mariner)
@@nettoyageadriance the enumerated nerd guy has a video, “what bike not to convert”, he mentions folding bikes as not the bike to convert evoke.
Search for it
@@obsidian66 Thanks but I already did the deed. I used it with the BBSHD at 1000 watts for about a year and then resold it. It held up surprisingly well 👍
Does anyone know how to eliminate ghosts padaling on e-bike Is their way to change the bracket to stop it does anyone know the answer of this issue
Hello, how to calibrate torq sensor ?
Depends on the sensor
Stromer, torque. You often need to recalibrate with temperature differences. It doesn't work smoothly and is a weak point in terms of reliability.
I purchased Bafang kit with 350W 36v front hub motor on ebay, last Christmas smog was coming out from controller and wires got melted together on it due to i drilled holes in the bike frame to hide wires and bike frame was shorting time to time some wires. I was not able to pull out melted wires but i removed controller. I was visiting many bike repair shops to fing controller match due to the missing label on original controller. finally i left my burned controller in one bike shop so if they will get across it they would keep me posted. Bike shop now telling me since i left controller for 5 month and did not call them they disposed it. So now i have torque speed sensor which has 6pins round connector and only used 5 wires (orange, white, purple, brown ,black). Pedals needs to be installed on both sides of the sensor. Right side of the torque sensor has chrome washer with written number on it (
This sounds like a problem that TH-cam comments cannot solve.
Cadence WITH Throttle
That's a pretty common setup for cheaper bikes.
I agree. I've had both types and this seems to be the best combination. Its the most intuitive and long lasting.
I know this video is a few years old, but perhaps someone out there can answer this, Is a torque system any good in colder and slushy to snow weather areas such as in Canada where it is snow one minute and slush and rain the next
For pedal assist, I would do a torque sensor in that environment, only because the power output is more predictable.
Throttle power is more predictable still, and with throttle you can lower the seat to improve balance and stick your legs out during real slippery patches.
There are plenty of bikes that have torque sensors and throttle, so you can have one bike that you can use year round.
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Thank you for the swift reply and your input, very apricated. My e-bike is already equipped with a throttle, but I do find myself using peddle assist more, the only thing with my peddle assist is when snow and slush accumulate between the magnet disk and senor, it stops working altogether, at least till I can bring the bike inside and let it fully dry off then it works again. I am just worried the torque sensor will jam up in those conditions, just like the derailer does, I have to constantly oil it or it jams up... " you can lower the seat to improve balance and stick your legs" haha that is a problem, my bike has a 20" ride height which is made for people from 5'5" to 6'3" tall and I'm only 5 foot short haha.
A lot of new bikes have sensors that are totally enclosed, both on cadence and torque sensing varieties. I'll make a quick video about this soon. Be sure to subscribe
wonder if I have a torque sensor on my bafang 250w rear hub motor,I have the Candace pedal assist but not sure on the torque anyone please.
Is it a kit installed on the bike, or a ready made eBike?
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles ready made bike. knaap AMS
Their website doesn't specify, so it's likely a cadence sensor.
Tilt the bike on the kickstand so that the rear wheel is off the ground, then pedal the bike by hand. If the assist kicks in and keeps going as you pedal, then you've got a cadence sensor. Be sure to grab the brakes before putting it down
So, Can we trigger Cadence Pedal Assist by padalling backwards? It could make hill climbing and starts easier
no, atleast never on any of the bikes ive owned
I have cadence. I hate it.
I also have a throttle to help me uphill when the PAS doesn't kick in. But i wish it was automatic.
Sorry to hear that
Do you love 3rd Strike?
We all should.
I have no installation pedal assist on my bike
Can anybody comment if it's worth $700 more to get a torque based system for the Juiced Hyper Scorpion vs a regular Scorpion which just has a cadence?
I think it has other upgrades, doesn't it?
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Yes it does, bigger battery, rear mirror, and other stuff I think. But the big one is the Torque sensor/cadence upgrade.
@@tomatojuice12 Silly question, do you know where to plug in that cable of that cadence / torque sensor?
@@SinisterAngel1 Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.
@@tomatojuice12 Thanks for responding. Juiced bikes sent me the wrong one. It's incompatible with the Scorpions controller.
I have a Cadence based system. E-bikekits.com. A Direct Drive hub motor on my front wheel. Works great.
Let's hope it stays that way. The domain is down
use regular on mine ebikes, but sometimes need to cut pedal side down a bit, so that magnets have clearance. BUT, what if there is no PAS input on controller? I figured out a way around that, check out if interested -> th-cam.com/video/cs5BmaVUED4/w-d-xo.html
Tried a cadence system and did not like it.
Why @ 3:46 he asks which is best, and responds with hopefully all bikes in the future have both, smh. IDK was he asking us for our opinion.
You took the bait and made a comment. Now my channel will grow a tiny bit more. HAHAHA!
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles 😂😂😂
I didn't watch the video.
But this video is about pedal assist & torque sensors.
so why does the pic of the video have a torque arm & a pedal assist sensor.
They have nothing to do with each other.
If you watched the video, you would see that the thumbnail isn't a torque arm.
It's a TMM torque sensor, still used on some eBikes (even though it's kind of old by now). I custom made an animation to show how it works. Let me know what you think, after watching.
Lol I need you desperately I have all of my original parts just need them to be put back on I live in Vancouver and had my E bike custom made 5 years ago I didn't know at the time it wasn't the one guy whm he made me believe was doing all the work So when I had an accident not my fault he was clueless to my repairs since then I've spent thousands and got one Bozo after another one the worst a friend who built his took a fuckin piece of my vacuum sorry for the language but that whole fiasco costed me $500 from yet another Bozo who gave me all different parts I have my original out of the box parts yet NOBODY can that I can find a person would make. Killing out here nwith that kinda knowledge I've got so much invested I just wanna fix it and restore back to original if you know anyone?lol
im 1st liker to this video
RadRover Rad Wagon, 12 magnet cadence sensor, quick to get going with 12 magnets. Throttle also which overrides pedals. Great Video
will a PAS work with a front hub motor?
Yes. There's a lot of trike kits that do exactly that.
thank you, a couple of hints as to which ones, thanks again
ebikekit.com
@@BlueMonkeyBicycles thanks again
Sure thing