Two Perspectives on Narcissism -- A Former Therapist Explores
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2018
- My website: wildtruth.net
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Narcissism has become a big word in the last few years. Suddenly I hear people getting labeled as narcissists all over the place. So I wanted to address the subject -- first from a more conventional psychiatric or diagnostic background, and second from my own actual point of view, with a focus on what causes this thing that gets labeled as narcissism, and what is it really expressing: unresolved child abuse and neglect.
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The biggest lesson I've learned about narcissism, is when I cut off my abusive, alcoholic father. I felt very proud of sticking to my decision, especially when my siblings, who suffered him equally, chose to endure his abuse. But somewhere along the line, I actually thought I was "teaching him a lesson" and making a statement. One day my mother said to me casually "You know, he just thinks all the problem is you". It hit me then, THAT is narcissism. I was never going to get him to own his behavior; I was never going to get him to admit he was the source of the problem. I still did what was best for me and had no contact, but I felt I learned a lot more about the narcissist personality.
It's very disheartening to find out someone does not love you enough to examine their own behavior in order to reconcile, but instead have made you the "toxic person." This is so hurtful. I agree you'll have not expect anything and build your life outside of their realm.
I also just went NC with my alcoholic father. And also just came to this realization. Lots of anger here. But I think that is a grief processing stage
@@sarahw7616 it's hardly a grief processing stage if denial of other people's humanity is a trait expressed for at least 18 years. I Experiences the same in issue except it was my mother and not my father
when you go no contact with a narcissist, it's to keep you safe from their toxicity. You may have done it to teach him a lesson, but they never learn, or change, and take on the victim role. It will always be your problem, not theirs.
Never ever ever do they think the problem is them. Ever
I think most people are narcissists. Our society is narcissistic.
You are describing religious people, government officials, lawyers, cops, and basically the medical establishment for starters.
Lol
Egocentric and selfish , yes most people are , but narcissistic ...no ! Read a bit please about narcissism , and come back later . bybye ...
"The Culture of Narcissism" by Christopher Lache, over 50 years old and more relevant than ever.
No. All people can be selfish, lie, steal, betray, and kill. But Narcissists do this on a daily basis, especially with the people they are closest to. Narcs are actors all the time. They are pathological, not occasional liars. They require no stressful situation to be cruel to others. Every word is a manipulation. Covert narcissists are dangerous people.
I was abandoned as a child. I think that neglect and shaming, and verbal abuse all made me a narcissist as a self defence to survive my hurrible childhood. I have suffered the most for it. 32 no job, depression, suicidal. Now slowly i am getting on my feet. Trying. Introspecting. Time to look into the accountability mirror. Man i wish there someone loved me as a child and didn't shame me publicly. Thank you.
Hello, I am a fellow vulnerable narcissist, I just want you to know that you are worthy of having a beautiful life.
Your past mistakes do not define you, try working on accepting the past and moving forward, you deserve it, you deserve to be happy, to be free.
I hope that you really sort out your life, you can do it.
Cheers
Yes, it is interesting to see where narcissism comes from. But for me, growing up with a narcissistic mom en now having a narcissistic brother too, I don't care how they got that way. I have to be my own advocate and I can not allow people to treat me like shit and expect me to just take it their way or the highway.. I'm worth so much more and have to choose for myself and my kids. Thank you for this video!
Maybe you are the narcissistic one
@Jacob Kevorkian stop using narcissism for your cultural mess
@Jacob Kevorkian you are devil personified. Devil speaks through you. Lol
Excellent point. He should have started with your point mentioned it throughout and concluded with it, too. Otherwise, the message is just making excuses for narcissists abuse, shamelessness. Hopefully, your comment will be at the top so people can understand that while every narcissists may have had bad parenting, ultimately they are dangerous and people who were raised by one should protect themselves and their kids from exposure to them.
@@scientificatheist9381 Research Narcissisim because you know "Jack Shit"!!
Parents do not have to be perfect. They must be able to admit mistakes. But this trait is rare among narcissists.
Hell Yes!!
I noticed that with my parents. So with my own children I always told them that I was human and I would make mistakes time to time. And as soon as I made a mistake I would apologize to them right away. I didn't like as a kid feeling like my parents were god like and infallible, because it just isn't true. But children naturally think that it is. It's the parent's job to make sure their children know that grown ups mess up too.
Hi Recovering Soul, I agree.
He’s sound on lots of topics but his insistence on perfect parenting boggles my mind. This is one of his reasons for not have children. Hope he evolves on this subject.
@@SaraFJones Yes, how do you know when you are completely free of trauma? (If that is possible anyway). In my opinion, it's about recognizing to the child that you acted wrong as a parent. Even if your child is now an adult, you can give recognition for their suffering, caused (consciously or unconsciously) by you. I think that's enough, life's not perfect.
It’s probably a nasty thing to be called because it seems the entire psychological profession says they can’t be helped.
Had a narcissistic guy in my class in art school. The very first day he showed us his paintings and gained a lot of admiration. He made the class laugh, was extremely intelligent and well read, wore all the right clothes, said all the right things, knew all the right people. After a while he started to make jokes on the behalf of different people in the class, which was not well recieved. We started to get tired of his teacher flattering and grabbing of attention. Every teacher LOVED him. He was so well spoken he could get away with anything - and he did. He skipped school, on an exursion abroad he brought drugs, he ignored assignment criterias. When you spoke to him he kind of oddly shook. His voice was strained, his eyes huge and intense. In every interaction he would talk to you as if you were someone lower than him that he was polite to, or someone he could teach. He would weirdly find ways to mention who his contacts were and what jobs he was applying to. High level stuff.
The art world is full of posers, fasion, intellectual snobs, and he is all into that. He is a copy of a copy of the leading trends.
I'm sorry for him. Because the guy must be painfully insecure.
I struggle with similar things, but not this badly. I just cannot be dishonest. I've tried to do tricks like he does and I reaped the results, but I couldn't stand the feeling.
@S Han Right. I've learned that being fake isn't a way to fulfillment or love, and really the key here is acceptance. This narcissist I met might get a lot of sucsess in his persona-game, and it might lead to an exciting life with a lot of oppertunities, but I hope he won't abuse a spouce or child. He had a very high status overtly narcissistic girlfriend when I last met him, she completely dominated him and humiliated him when I saw them together. Scary and fascinating at the same time.
I think most people with childhood trauma, like myself, present with a degree of narcissistic drives. Like a desperate need of approval, a protective persona, deep insecurity and identifications with the approved parts of our outer persona.
But this guy and his girlfriend was on another level. That's when I realized what is really meant by a diagnosis of NPD, and how rare it really is. (Well, not very very rare, but it's not like every third person has it). The more I got to see him interact with the world, the more bizzare I found him. I get it when people describe them as not really human, because they act so utterly weird. But obviously they were born with the same needs and structures like we all are, they have just found a very extreme way to cope.
I kind of felt like I has similar insecurities as him. We both found our personal value in art and intellectual achievement, as that was what we were regarded positively for in our childhood. We both locked onto the same (probably co-dependent) teacher for validation and love, but I always had that core of agency and self-compassion, I think. I wanted to contribute to the whole place, I feel sympathy for people, I let go of my persona and laugh, reach out, want to be real. While I think he probably never ever will let go of his polished persona. He probably feels like he needs it to be able to stand himself and survive. While I want to heal and feel like I can't really live until I have healed these childhood wounds in me that lead me to construct coping mechanisms.
But yeah, if we aren't being real and accepting ourselves in this life, are we even living? Ultimately every person is doing exactly what their brain thinks they need to do in order to live, in self-protection, but we can heal. Even if it takes a lifetime.
Don't know why I just wrote all that, haha. Just some thoughts late at night.
@@fromeveryting29 Fun observations. Brando said something like- "People walk into a room with several others already there ( maybe a party ) and pick up 2 or 3 impressions.An artist will pick up 50 impressions." The sissifying of the term "sensitivity" doesn't bug me, you need to be sensitive and introspective if you're an artist. Humans feel they need to control things- the environment, people, etc. it can get out of hand. An artist finds the realm he/she can be in control-- on a canvas, in music, writing, poetry, etc. Many others don't have that, get overwhelmed with a stressful world ( keeping up with the Jones's and overdo the drugs, booze, maniacal power lusting ... all that crazy stuff ). Still, this is all generally speaking, as I've met some crackpot artists ( no pun intended towards ceramicists).
@@jhavajoe3792 What a joy it was to read you! Think I'll go dominate a canvas today.
I think most narcissists became the way they are, because they were treated as objects, thus they treat others like objects also.
Their parents probably had them to serve as extensions of themselves.
mai good point!
Well said..it is a family virus that spreads into families through generations...not a simple or small thing..
A certain president comes to mind...
Yep. This is true more often than not.
mai or treated like slaves , i guess that is the same as being treated like an object
Over praising is equally damaging as neglecting a child. Both can create a narcissist.
yep. exactly.
Key is psychological visibility.
Yes my narcissitic step half sister was brought up that way. Super over praised and over spoilt rotten by her parents. Her mum was also a sociopath. With the 2 of them they snatched my dad away from me, a part of my childhood and alot of things that I wanted to learn and wanted.
@@cantwaittodietoday9924 I'm sorry you went through all that. It can be very damaging throughout life. I totally understand how you feel. I hope you seek out lots of deep yet proactive therapy to help you work through the pain and void.
theway sadly once I knew about psychiatrist, psychiatrist continued the bullying and further abuse. Its horrible. I wish psychiatrist never knew about me, I could leave my family but its impossible to get out of a psychiatric nightmare.
I really agree. That exactly explains how it is like growing up in an authoritarian country. When a society is oppressed, it goes in the workplace, school, as well as family. People either feel that they are not worthy, of love or trying to prove themselves to overcompensate the love they lack and become a narcissist -- oppressor.
My narcissitic step half sister grew up super spoilt rotten by her parents, she tried to drown me when we were kids because the adults were saying I could swim well and she got jealous. Its hard to believe a child would do such a thing but she did, she kept pulling my hair and pressing my head down to try drown me.
some kids are just born evil in my opinion. People like to use psychology and labels, but there is no label for "evil". There is the story of Cain and Abel, he killed his brother because he was evil. Narcissists have no conscience and no empathy. Narcissists who have killed, show no remorse afterwards.
@@miriam100ful religion is a delusion. If she was "evil" (with antisocial personality disorder and pyschopathy) she wouldnt need the parents to praise the other kid for swimming well to drown her she would just drown her for no reason and literally do it until she was unconscious and have no remose. So you are wrong
Narcissists have remorse and have deep insecurity. Stop painting everyone with broad brushes.
That is quite sad. Im sorry you had to experience that.
Your half step sister must have been quite spoiled and overly appraised.
Half and step
Sister?
Sorry that’s confusing.
I have a step sister
And a half sister
But step half sister..?
Someone please explain 😅
@@elijimenez7710 Generally, there is no such thing. The half means you share one biological parent with a sibling. Step occurs when two different separated parents become engaged by law, then both of the children become "step siblings" by law.
So, unless the two separated parents that get married are biologically related, then there is no such thing as a "half step sister."
Things make sense now i grew up with both parents being narcisstic. Recently realised how insensitive my mother was to me and my emotions. How every time i would tell her i feel bad or cry she would ask me to see how bad things were for "her". How hard she was working and how much i depended on "her". My emotions were never addressed and whenever i would cry or be angry it was just seen as one of my tantrums. I also remember my childhood being dominated by fear rather than comfort.
It still is taking me a while to accept the fact that my mother was narcisstic in her behaviour as she raised me on her own since my father was uninvolved financially ,emotionally and physically but that ended up in me being her punching bag and being the problem while she the victim.I am glad i addresed this early on in life and plan to move out some day.
I got to know my mom is a covert narc on 8th July 2019. She has probably been the most brutal mom I can imagine. So i take the abuse smilingly. I realized I do not stand for myself. I am ready to help others first rather than helping myself first. She is a 5 year old who jumped in the well and was saved. So this is her pattern. And she has been throwing me in the well. That gives me a risk taking ability but she is so self destructive and so full of my sabotage, I can't help her at all because she is so envious and jealous of me that if i am near her, her BP is rising. She is a monster now. Her ego is so high with the success of this pattern, she won't listen.
Thank you for your insightful and empathetic talk about narcissism. There is a terrible hate campaign out there against that group of people with that condition from which I am actually(with a lot of hard work!), gradually recovering. Guilt is a big thing in the recovery process as one realises that that particular coping style was harmful to other people. I think the videos on narcissism out there prevent people with that condition from healing because they feel condemned, which resonates with their own self-critical voices which then opens the floodgates to an almost unbearable amount of shame and guilt. It is then very difficult not to resort to rationalisations with regards to past harmful behaviour towards others and also the self. I have resisted the rationalisations and am left with the most horrible sensations in the stomach and heart area. The guilt and self-loathing is excruciating but on the good side: I get don‘t feel the urge anymore to hide perceived shortcomings in front of people and thus can remain connected to the people in my life. I used to be ashamed in front of people for not being good enough, now I am ashamed that I couldn‘t love them the way I would have liked to because of that shame. I never saw the connection between shame and disconnection. I do now. It‘s quite a shift. At the minute, I don‘t know if I can ever be at peace again for never having recognised it much earlier.
Kudos to you for starting your healing journey on such a stigmatized condition ❤
Nothing is every so simple and my belief is that there's a spectrum of NPD traits. Some crossed the line over the red zone ( incurable). Not for me to judge as I'm working on recognizing any kind of bad behavior. For you to still have guilt and recognition of former patterns of bad behavior means there's hope for you. Introspection seems to be a big missing factor in narcissists.
We live in a system that is narcissistic, that doesn't have empathy doesn't listen and is only interested in what it can take. Narcissists are broken people they can't help being like that and maybe this narcissistic epidemic is created by the capitalist society. They are so damaged. I wouldn't recommend having a personal relationship with one, but it's not their fault. I had a relationship with one. Once I processed the shit show he put me threw I forgave him and that was liberating, but only after I got away and understood. There is a lot of expert stuff on narcissism, but what they don't say is that, they can't be any other way, they have been fucked over by the parental figures.
We think that a huge part of why npd is apparently soo hard to treat is therapists throwing it around as an insult and not actually being curious about what's behind it...
In 25+ mental hospital stays, we never once felt safe to openly talk about our narcissistic traits/narcissistic alters.
Now that we have a therapists who is genuinely caring and curious, the guys do great in therapy and we have made huge progress.
First of all, a distinction needs to be made between having full blown "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" (NPD) and being narcissistic or having narcissistic traits/tendencies. The term narcissism is thrown around so often culturally that it has lost its meaning in the vernacular. Narcissism in the vernacular can mean someone who "disagrees with me," someone who doesn't give me my way, someone who is puffed up, haughty, egotistical, driven, etc. But when we refer to NPD, the most important distinguishing factor of the criteria (per conventional DSM standards) is the lack of empathy/compassion part interrelationally speaking. In NPD someone walks over a line, a threshold, where they begin to prey upon other people seemingly without any sort of moral compass. To some extent, though often rooted in a traumatic childhood, this walking over the line is a choice, a hardening, a deliberate response that at some point down the path becomes less and less a choice and more of an ingrained pattern of behavior that few who walk it can ever come back from.
I agree that labelling the person isn't helpful for them but for everyone else around them that has suffered from their abuse, the label is extremely helpful. Learning that my dad and other members of my family are narcissists has enabled me to research into the whole area and understand what happened to me in my childhood and why I have personality problems, from that I've been able to recover and improve myself.
Having an unidentified barrage of negative stuff occur across the years, that you can't put your finger on, is hell on wheels. The terms are incredibly helpful, along with learning there are patterns of behavior(s). These terms, i.e., Narcissists, flying monkeys, gaslighting, etc.
are like markers in a blizzard.The look back into childhood was the last door and the hardest to open for me. I still felt a sense of family loyalty. But there lay the truth I couldn't deny.
It's a pressure wash for the memories in the brain.
Narcissism is just another word for Evil. Read the wonderful book by Dr. Scott Peck, "People of the Lie". If your mother or father was a narcissist, you will realize if you read his book that your horrible parent really was horrible - and that you did nothing whatever to deserve that treatment. Blessings to all the victims of the vile narcissists of the world.
I read "People of the Lie". First TRUTHTELLER about narcs I came across.
insightful. As for me, I'm both narcissistic and very compassionate. Its like i have two personalities in which, one personality sees himself greater than everyone, and the other one sees himself equal to everything and everyone.
As a child i was both neglected and cared for, in weird ways. So my personality might have developed in an uniquely weird way because of that.
I actually have DID and really relate to this. Some parts of me are so caring and some are more or less completely wrapped up in themselves. It's hard to work with the self-centered ones, but it helps me to remember that they are children who froze developmentally during horrendous trauma and that they deeply want to heal. They have to, they are one with me and that is what I want, which would normally be a very narcissistic statement, except I am literally talking about myself. Wait...
if you are a narc you can't be compassionate. It's an oxymoron. Narcs lack empathy. So don't mix up it up.
Oh god me too
Tbh I think it’s pretty normal to be self-centered sometimes and not so other times, and I think most people probably have this. I know I do. The various traits that make up specifically defined diagnoses are pretty much always traits that all people have to some extent, on a spectrum. People are complex and not easily put into boxes.
Aw I see that in others to. I see those that are really caring and sweet and vulnerable and those that are super into themselves.
I suffered significant trauma in childhood and when I was 14 years old a group therapists called me a narcissist, mind you I was never diagnosed and I never even shared anything significant with the professionals because I did not trust them. Looking back I am glad because I also was never placed on any medications while I watched children around me turn into zombies. I made the mistake of sharing what he said with my family because I honestly wanted to understand for the rest of my life when ever I tried to assert my feelings or needs I was called a narcissist among other things. I accepted it. Much later after my own children were grown up from their happy secure childhoods, I read that most teenagers go through a narcissistic phase and it’s normal and healthy. I still think about Dr. Perish and his Porsche and I consider that he was really the narcissist projecting on me.
So sorry to hear this! By the way, if one does accept that narcissism exists, then narcissism is healthy and appropriate for children. Teenagers too. The attention is supposed to be paid to children, and the focus is supposed to be on children. All healthy children and teenagers are “narcissistic” to some degree or other, and often quite a lot!
Dr. Perish… what a name
@@dmackler58 I heard -- I think maybe it was you who said it? -- that we are all born narcissistic, and some of us grow out of it somewhat. I liked that. Maybe that was not you, but that seems to be what you're echoing here?
@@jennw6809 Yes. I can't remember if I said it in those words, but I echo that sentiment. Children are born very self-centered and needy, and that's appropriate. When they get their needs met sufficiently they grow out of their neediness and become more empathic and altruistic...
@@dmackler58 It's good to know, thank you for that. The more I know myself the more I see the ways in which I've perpetrated my own abuses on others. But how could I have done otherwise, when nothing else was modeled for me, and my needs were not met when I was young? As frequently discussed in your comments -- self awareness is painful! But so much better than the alternative.
You're so right. Why I also left the field. Some of my supervisors were uber Narcissists.
I truly wanted to get into the system so I can help those who needed help the most, but the orientation at my school? They told me they'd rather have their students work in private rather than non-profit sectors, in which, non-profit was what I truly was interested in. But the whole field is corrupt, and there truly isn't a heart in helping those in need.
One of my advisors said, "You're compassionate, but you don't need compassion to help others." She's well known as a "Trauma" expert. She was great at creating trauma for us students, using us for her research purposes, collecting data through our clients. (I really dislike that term btw, why not refer the people who seek help as "people" rather than "clients." I remember that's one of the first terms they taught us to use to- referring people we see as "clients" because they are our customers. What a turnoff.)
I even had a cohort fellow student who said, "You can't stop making a business out of emotions." His family came from Big Oil. I don't know why he ended up telling me this. I guess people had a way of telling me certain things about themselves. Maybe because I tend to not judge people, unless of course, they're being crass.
Daniel, can you please make a video on the traits and dangers of narcissistic therapists? I have encountered 2 of them and they retraumatized me and blamed me for being the victim of sex assault. They criticized me and when I confronted them about the situation and the fact that I felt suicidal they simply denied that they made any mistakes, took no responsibility for their words, denied it ever happened, discarded me and refused to help me and kept on insisting that their point of view was the right one. I see this as a complete lack of empathy from the therapist and don't know how to heal from it. I feel like I need validation and empathy but I feel completly powerless because they won't even see my own truth.
They’re basically like standard narcissists but I guess more powerful and nasty.
I too have suffered from working with so many toxic therapists and psychiatrists.
It’s really horrible and hurts so much but you won’t get an apology or even recognition of pain done. They are delusional monsters.
DM did a video on how to find a good therapist. And I think another one, I’m not sure.
I have this thing where I can just feel in my gut whether someone is bad or not when they walk in the room. When I first saw my new psych I felt such awful disdain, my gut was right. She’s the most horrible anything ever.
I think within one session though, if you’re looking for red flags, how they make you feel, do they put you down, do they try to tell you what you’re feeling, etc, you’ll just know.
But I know, the retraumatizing from horrible therapists is so so bad, it’s almost worse than the abuse itself. The denial of what you know you went through. Disgusting. These people should be in hell jail forever.
I hear how much pain you're in, and I understand, because I've been through several narcissistic therapists too, and several incompetent ones. I hope you've been able to validate yourself by this time. In my view, what you described is what MOST therapists do. I tried to trust my gut and most of my therapists were capable of doing good work, until the moment when they weren't.
Interestingly, I've had better luck with my psychiatrists.
Dude, I'll never forget seeing a couples counsellor for my relationship with a narc / sociopath (was not aware he was one at the time), and she coldly questioned me straight up "do you actually love him" (?? Gaslight??) And said I was a shell of a person. She was right, but I felt she took sides there. She later contacted me to let me know she can't continue sessions with me as my narc ex started to take sessions with her personally. Narcs love supplying each other
One of the popular professions for people with a narcissistic wound is psychotherapy. It appears to neatly solve all the problems: it establishes them as important in the eyes of the world and of course in the eyes of their patients, it gives them feeling that they are these special empathetic and caring people, and it offers them controlled substitute of intimacy (aka therapeutic session), that is less endangering than a true intimacy. Because they are in it mostly due to their own unfulfilled needs, some burn out quickly, while for some all the perks I mentioned carry them through the years. Narcissism is a weakness, but as many other weaknesses it's not an excuse to use other people as mere props in one's own story.
If you ever been in somekind of relationship with one of these people , you will realize, no amount of childhood drama gives someone the right to lie, to manipulate, to betray, present as a false persona, hurt, destroy, and mostly of all, live on as if nothing ever is their responsebility
What is with this pathological liers?
As an adult, you defenitly can't, at some point, give the only fault to your bad childhood
It is clear to me that childhood trauma is a reason for many problems, but-
for this kind of behaviour I have very less understanding
Narcissists tend to see themselves as perfect and above anyone else. They constantly think the problem is with everyone else except themselves. This is the lie they tell themselves, so that they don't look inward. Their inside is rotten and like a pile of rubbish. No wonder they show that on the outside...
Both my parents are that way. I Took a lot of their traits and suffered all hell, still do, but with some degree of consciousness at least. Society won't help because it has grow to promote this. Psychologists, at least by my own experience, won't help much either. I think the deeper problem is that we have lost our spiritual compass. If we think we are just what our senses dictate then we're doomed. I discovered there's an inner path no matter your circumstances. Thruth is always within. We have to faithfully follow our better intuition and in the long run things will start to get better.
What’s ironic is you see victims of narcissistic abuse on this thread. Not the narcissists. They’re not victims. They’re the perpetrators.
I generally like your work Daniel but I disagree with you on this one. Narcissists can be covert. They are the more dangerous ones. The only positive thing my ex did (who was a covert narc) was to bring me the knowledge that I shouldn’t let parasites (such as himself) walk all over me, and do so much damage to both my health, my financial state, and my poor twin who has severe disability.
Shame on me for trying to help him for all of those years, hoping he would get better, instead he got worse, and more entitled.
Your effort Daniel, in trying to bring awareness to this ever increasing problem and try to get unsuspecting victims to have compassion for these parasites is not helpful at all.
Also, a lot of narcissists are that way because they were molly cottled. My younger sister is now a narc because mum saw her as the golden child, while my disabled twin and I were abandoned and neglected. My twin was the lost child and I was the scapegoat. How is it then, with all that neglect that I turned out to be full of compassion?
Whilst I agree that misdiagnosis happens a lot in therapy, I still think we need to use labels in order to get our point across. It’s a natural part of language.
One more thing, my ex the covert narc, gets Governement funded pension for having Bi Polar. I know for a fact that he doesn’t have it and just knows how to play the game. His symptoms are very consistent with Narcissism not Bi Polar.
The other thing that I disagree with is that you can help them change for the better...good luck with that.
Tamara Coba Wow, Yes that’s almost exactly what happened to me too.....they are destructive.
I can relate to your story so much as I am a scapegoat and very compassionate. These people can't change and it's important we focus on ourselves. Here is my story HOLY COW MY MOM IS TRUMP medium.com/@mamtanarang/holy-cow-my-mom-is-trump-bde2aaa9344f
I fully agree with you on this.
Fish Breath definitely do NOT try to help a narcissist, don’t make the mistake of feeling sorry for them they will stab you in the back as soon as you turn around - big highlighted capitals NARCISSISTS ( those who truly have npd not people who are vain and we label them narcissist but those who are the rare 1-4% of population w npd cannot be nelped they do not want to change they want to prey on others, giving them a second of time to feel sorry and think of how to help them will only result in you getting hurt - just like you wouldn’t try to help a shark don’t help someone who has npd - help yourself by staying very low or no contact and being wise to their predatory motive for everything
You're totally right. When you spot a narc - run.
Dear Dan, you have a warm heart & a compassionate way of seeing people. I love that vision 🐳 Thank you for being here 👧🏻
You will also have a lot of “codependents” that have watched a ton of you tube videos on Narcissism. There’s even a guy that has a website about it and does interviews as a Narcissist. It’s so strange.
I’m so happy to see you covering this topic.🌈❤️🙏🏻
Lovely to see new videos from you Daniel. Wishing you well...
This made me realize some things about my younger brother. I won’t say he is a narcissist but in the past year or so he has had such an inflated ego. It all makes sense now. He has long felt like our parents paid more attention to me than to him. And because of that hurt, pain, and neglect he felt, he feels he needs to bolster his self-importance because he believes that I overshadowed him when it came to receiving love from our parents.
It sounds like he was the scapegoat and you were the golden child.
@@jennw6809 I think our family dynamic was definitely a diluted version of that, yes. Now we are both adults who feel equally fucked by the respective dynamics we were each entrenched in as children.
You're doing good work, sir. You're speaking truths.
I really absolutely love your clarity and honesty. How refreshing. I think i needed you today. Ive been crying all day i think a customer triggered me to the point i want to tell her employer i refuse to work with her after this. I dont think had i had my life experience she would have this effect on me but its like she keeps telling me stuff like this is MY reality and i dont know what YOUR problem is but YOUR perspective is wrong and mine is right and im about ready to punch her in the face. Too many parent triggers i guess.
Daniel, delighted for your videos. I started a counselling course, and 'narcissistic personality disorders' was being discussed by the tutor without looking at the nuances. From an Irish cultural perspective having self love, self praise was seen as a sin. Everybody wants attention and love. It is dismissing the whole of a person by placing such a label on them, it is judgemental. I agree it doesn't help a person at all, it helps the person using the label as they do not need the compassion to understand another's story. I'm strong in my belief that diagnosis do not help someone, such a course is a challenge. I'll have to smile and nod if I wish to continue.
Love your song, I don't want your diagnosis, I wish it was a part of counselling course as what is needed. Drop your mask, your books and theories, be a human. Human to human interaction, heart to heart interaction.
I think such courses play lip service to empathy and being non judgemental. They've a very limited understanding of what being judgemental means
I think Narcissism and other nasty personality types are much better explainable by what they don´t have or what did not happen to them. It is not so much about how high those people think and feel of themselves as how (if at all) they think and feel about other poeple.
Your Narcissims, can be as high as possible and never be a problem to anyone or anything aslong as it is combined with complementary attributes (like humility, compassion, caring, consideration, conscience) that direct, regulate and control it.
Your videos are very helpful. Thank you for creating them.
My x spouse is very Narcissistic, but I don’t agree with neglect as an etiology, I think rather over indulged in childhood while not allowing him to express true emotions. All my in laws are like this, real feelings are kept secret and not allowed to be discussed. Nothing is in the open. And I can see how they made him feel so entitled while not allowing him to express himself. I’ve seen how his parents over indulge him, his siblings and their grand kids. It’s always about HUGE gifts and showering them with attention...so rather the opposite. And let me tell you, my x husband and his siblings are extremely Narcissistic. My x spouse a covert Narc. His sister also under the guise of being very benevolent, then boasting about how she helped so and so with cancer, and the younger brother very openly Covert Narc. Extremely annoying. Everything in their family is about competition, they love competitive board games where they try to outsmart each other. My sister in law has a “brag house”. All remodeling done to show off. Then always excessive show off with cooking, which she insists on sending home to us...despite my many pleas to not accept food, my x always did take her food home, despite my asking him not to. This sister became a new mom for him, as his Narcissistic mom now retirement age, the Narc sis took over. And yes acts as if she OWNS my kids. Thinks she’s still something special, acts like she’s in charge, all the time. Sings loudly (often out of tune too) and tries to out sing louder than everyone else. This creepy person even sang at our wedding. High pitched voice too! So super annoying.
My 3 kids don’t see their game and bought into it, as they like to play with their cousins there. They’re superficially very friendly even if fake. Pretty sick behavior. The in laws from hell!
Ase(Thank you) for sharing such an insight and unpopular perspective on the subject, it brings us closer to the core of the problem.
I think you have a good handle on the inner worlds and on the outer world, as in family and society, which actually is so important in understanding why things, and why people, are the way they are, and personal self-healing. Cheers.
You have incredible COMPASSION for the human condition. A COMPASSIONATE HEART is fundamental for all healing work. It is through COMPASSION that we're able to transform trauma.
I'm a covert narcissist. And truth is, I hate it. I wish I could stop. I know it might sound strange to some, but there doesnt seem to be anything I can do about it. I want to form a deep connection with someone, but I cant because no one can satisfy me. I know this probably sounds crazy, but it's true. I want to be a joyful person who connects with everyone..
But Daniel: I'm sure most narcissist weren't loved enough in their youth, yes. But I recieved very healthy dose of love and attention as a kid. Why then do I have such an unhealthy grandiose sense of self?
SirMikeys have you looked into P Scott Peck's book " The People of the Lie"? The implication is possession. How does that chime with you?
i found ego dissolution and a subsequent re-integration is working for me, taking joy in every interaction and feeling out a positive flow
ladiesmahn217 but did you see yourself as NPD? Or just having some traits?
Dez Parker have you seen progress in an NPD individual in terms of healing and development towards relating to others in a genuinely empathetic way?
i would say i was very much heading the direction of NPD, i think though at my core i'm highly empathetic, what probably happened is that narcissistic tendencies were brought about due to the people i was friends with at the time, also scott peck! path less traveled has been my favorite self help read so far :p
I have these tendencies as an autist, but I think it's because people are not detached enough. People get attached to you and start thinking you have to be like them. Me rejecting that makes me feel narcisstic but It's neccesary not to get absorbed without understanding the facts underlying their behaviour.
I've spent the last year studying my narcissistic father in hopes that I can find a way to reach him on an emotional level, but I'm finding the harder I try the harder he pushes back. I try to speak with him on a spiritual and emotional level, and he acts like he understands and he participates in the discussion almost believably to the point where I think I might have reached him. Then the next day he lashes out in some way, usually small. It gets to the point where he can't even admit he spilled something and he blames it on the dog for peeing on the floor and refuses to clean it up because it's not his dog. I am absolutely astounded by the level of denial he's in but I don't even know if it's denial or straight up deception sometimes. I literally can't trust anything he says anymore, I've tried my absolute hardest to approach him with a compassionate heart, but I think I might have to confront him and cut him out of my life. It's especially hard because I know he had a troubled childhood, I know he deserves to be loved, but he's so defensive that he shuts down any possibility of having any sort of trusting relationship with him. It breaks my heart.
It is not so easy dearest..they are into a cage that changes the reality...they build a self parallele reality..the few contact they have with real situations are comparable to a tall thin opening in a jail made like an iron box...
Do you undrrstand how few we can really get of who they really are?
They are pretty fotally disconnected from their inner self and so from the Heavdnly Father.
Who is rooted to Earth ends to be ruled by the evil..not joking..the phisical reality is linked to the psychological which is linked to the spiritual.Each plain affects the others...immagine a 3 levels reality..not thd monodimentional in which we live daily runnuning and rushing...life is much more compleax than this.
Sending big hugs
The only thing that works in my experience (2 seriously twisted parental units)is a strict behavior plan.
1. Find out what they find reinforcing from you
2. Withdraw it until you get compliance
3. They only get that when they are compliant
It's not fun or easy but if you are very consistent over time you'll be someone they know it doesn't work on. They'll either kick you out of their lives or treat you respectfully.
@@tahiyamarome I second that! Some psychologist call this approach "loving firmness" and it's very similar to teaching discipline to a small child (or even a pet - similar approach).
Totally agree with stwphania here. Had same in my family. All i prayed was for him to understand ut abd for god to unable him tout a light of awareness of life .. i moved out i limited contact but once around i treated him normaly. I bot him bday cards. Xmas small gifts but prayed everyday. Untill one day he called me and in his voice i heard humbly men. He passed away knowing he is lived
Golden child can also be narcissist, spoiling a child is as abusive as dismissing them. I was a golden child and later the scape goat and be a golden child is hell. You are constantly forced to wear a mask, to be perfect, to never make mistake. Golden children can't be authentic due to fear of fallen to the narcissist bad grades and be treated like the scapegoat, you learn to hide your authentic self and become a shell of a person to receive a praise you know deep down is wasn't for you... Golden child learn to be hypocrite to please others at the end they integrate the false reality the narcissist put into them and they behave in accordance with that. If the narcissist tells you that you are the most amazing person in the room, you will act like one even if deep down you know it is not true. One perfect example of that is Azula from Avater and Arabella from Encanto.
Look up Sam Vaknin on TH-cam. He developed narcissism not because of neglect, but because of being put on a pedestal by his parents. Narcissism seems more like an issue of not being recognized and praised for who one really is, essentially getting forced into playing a role of someone else (someone more likeable) since very early childhood.
Hi mother was extremely abusive.
Yes, we all have to sort and work through our childhoods however it's hard to see how a narcissist can ever heal as they think themselves better and wiser than everybody else. I had no idea how cruel a person could be in such subtle ways until I had a relationship with one, it was toxic. Jackson MacKenzie 's book psychopath free was freakishly accurate and helped me.
They can when they get in the stage of mortification (see Sam Vaknin's videos about it)
I really don’t like the term narcissist to describe certain human adaptations as evil or wrong. Any label that states something wrong in general. I think a lot of people use the term narcissism to blame someone for all their problems - which is not very healthy at all. I think everyone is responsible for their own life, but when someone talks about the traumatic experiences they had with a ‘narcissist’ all their problems are blamed on the person. But what about their own responsibility? Why did you allow this to happen? I feel people talking about narcissists in such a negative way usually are very narcissistic themselves, and the scary thing is, they’re not even aware of it and think their own same negative behavior is now justified. Now how narcissistic is that ?
I also dislike the term narcissist. I may repeat what you said a bit but, I do think some of the traits are not always bad in certain amounts.
And even the things that are 'bad' it isn't always their fault and shouldn't just be seen as 'evil'. It's a unkind term which labels someone. And yea often people use these narcissists as an excuse for someone to blame or take frustration over them, although i'm not sure of the extent of that.
I actually kind of agree with you. Narcissism is oversimplified nowadays, and you can dump all of your own package on the other person just by saying they are a narcissist. But there is always this other thing, that when you are MANIPULATED, then it's not your fault and you didn't "allow it to happen". You have to be careful not to victim-blame people. These things are complicated, and another person can influence you so that you start to behave and accept things that you otherwise wouldn't. It's not the same when you are poked and poked so that you explode, than when a narcissist does this constantly because of their own never-ending inner conflicts (not as a reasonable reaction to an impossible situation). This is something that many people don't understand.
But still, that doesn't mean that we can dump everything on that other person and just dwell on that "victim-state" years and years on. We have responsibility on our own behaviour, choices and healing. That's actually narcissistic if it continues, it's the covert narcissist who wants to be the "biggest victim in the world" and special and better because of that. We have to face our pain and deal with the trauma we experienced, just how Daniel said. It's actually quite often that people surviving from narcissistic homes have some narcissistic injuries themselves too (that's actually psychologically evident). Because of that I don't like to draw lines which say that these people are "monsters", because everything is really more complicated. There's no point attempting to help people, who don't see anything wrong in their doings, that's just impossible. But some survivors can be helped.
If
Holy cow, I was just wondering if this very situation you speak of, could be possible. I knoe someone who makes willful bad life choices, after the people (modtly relatives ) warn this person to not make such bad decisions. Once their world is rocked with consequences of their OWN decisions they blame certain people in their life (like actual , or percieved narcissist) for all their problems and rush around in desperation begging everyone for help because they play victim. Yet when those who habe always been their for that person,never letting them down, ask for help they themselves pretend to care, SAY they will help and then literslly show with their actions (like ignoring for an entire day or hours and hours, before saying oh sorry zi was too busy when they were doing something completely un-important like "I was getting my nails done,knoeing the whole time they agreed to help thevperson,but waa willfully ignoring the person they agreed to help) they never gave two craps at all about helping such person. They let others down over&over, and over,and over. Yet continue to play victim when anyrhing goes wrong or anyone lets them down.
Very useful video. I totally agree with you. Thanks!
S. Freud in his writing "on narcissism" explained that: a) a children is narcissistic (primary narcissism); b) after a while, the children start to investe his libido on the world; c) when he finds obstacles to his "investment", he reacts libido from the object and invest on himself (secondary narcissism).
(for the record, Freud used "narcissism" in seven different meanings. this is just one of that and the most "famous").
What are the "obstacles" Freud was talking about?
He doesn't explain that. Anyway, we can find a good answer in narcissus myth.
Who's the girl next to narcissus? Eco. What did eco do?
She felt in love with N. but she couldn't speak, she could only repeat the last words other people were saying.
So, when naricissus looked himself into the water and says "I Love you", she repeated "I love you". Narcissus thought that the image was saying "I love you", tried to kiss his image, felt into the water and died.
(there is a different version of the myth, more interesting but harder to analyze, so - if you wish - I'll talk about it later).
What does the myth tells us?
a) If you do not have the perception of yourself, you need to find someone who teaches you to perceive yourself and love
b) if the people around you are not able to give un-conditioned love, you'll never learn what love is (Eco could repeat "I love you" only if narcissus said "I love you". This in conditioned love).
c) if you can find someone that show you what love is, the only way you have to experiment love is with your self, working on your image.
d) if you fall in love with your image, your are going to die as person.
So, what the obstacles are? The obstacle is that you find all around you only conditioned love.
Really nice
What a great person you are Mr Mackler ❤
Your deep sensitivity and insight is inspiring
Yes, spot on. Allot of hurt people who are hurting the world.
Another excellent talk from Daniel Mackler.
Well I wonder:. If lack of love is the source of narcissism the scape goat child should be a narcissistic themselves, which doesn’t seem to be the case. I’m not sure if you are right on that. I’m the.scape goat child and my golden child sister seems to have more Narc traits similar to my Narc parent.
You are right..the Escape goat of a situation can become the Narcissist outside that situation..well spotted..go on researching..tou are on the right path of discovery and Daniel is so right aswell..
Sending a big hug
I was a scape goat child too aka punching bag of my mother who would blame me when things would go wrong and say really harsh and hurting stuff. I recently became aware of these tendencies of her.
Lack of love is merely a broad term of a particular type of environment, so there are a lot more specific situations to how love, or lack thereof, is expressed by parents. How children reacts to that environment depends on their innate trait (The Big 5 + intelligence + physical attributes) as well. Narcissists are born when they have specific set of traits put in a specific type of love-lacking environment.
For example, if one is born with high agreeableness and high neuroticism (typical for girls), the natural response to a narcissistic parent(s) who often employ punishment is to be submissive. This is because high neuroticism means high sensitivity to punishments, and high agreeableness means proclivity to conform. If the narcissistic parents are high-demanding, these children can become pleasers. If one is born with low agreeableness but moderate to high neuroticism, then they can become narcissists themselves. If one is born with low agreeableness and low neuroticism, they can become high-functioning sociopaths.
Love your videos Daniel! Thank you!
to look at the truth of what really happened, that is so well put, to look at how a person was treated or mistreated, looking at the facts and acknowledging them no matter how good or painful they were or are. Looking at what really happened as a child..... and maybe even why parents did what they did...
Awesome video and God bless you my friend :)
My favourite version of the Narcissus myth is the one where he doesn’t fall in the pond and drown, but he throws himself in the pond as an act of suicide, because he finally realises that the thing he is in love with (image) can never love him back and so he will never have human love.
I would only consider transcending the label with a narcissist who really wanted to engage the trauma of their childhood. Problem is I’ve never met one of those. They are pretty much the most strongly defended of all, in my experience.
i love your hannel. just found it. you are soooo smart
It's interesting that I would say I had more narcissistic tendencies when I was a Christian. Now I have more confidence.
May I ask you if you ise the secular way of living to gain your confidence?
The entire bible Old Testament and New is littered with narcissism.....it’s a staggering eye-opener
@@mardishores4016 I finally figured out how to read the Old Testament and actually enjoy it. It’s not written to be taken seriously. You read it from the perspective as a mocking expose of pathological narcissism; then it’s a complete side-splitter. “I created all that, that was me!” “I made you so I own you.” “I know absolutely everything.” “This one is totally my favourite person out of all of you.” “You will worship only me!” “Well, what I made got completely screwed up but I’m perfect so that must be your fault therefore; you’re cancelled.” I’m rolling in the aisles. 😂
I feel like I lost myself in my current work. I used to have lots of dreams, now I get one or two per night. Used to be more aware of myself. Overworking could certainly make you more narcissistic. Hard to get out of that.
Lol! I saw this yesterday in someone. I always make sure that I have boundaries. If people were unloved in their past they are going to act out in their future. I’ve also noticed something interesting most people will help others to the point where they won’t grieve their own loss maybe the loss of a childhood, a friend, etc which makes them stuff the pain deeper. Also churches are so superficial to no one actually talks about their pain or really knows the person it’s painful to see. I wonder what it would be like to just go into church and say, “well I drank in public yesterday and you know it was quite fun and no one even cared. I can cross that off my imaginary bucket list now.” Lol
Superb. At last a video where the narcissist has hope as long as they can accept the long term pitfalls that come with that behaviour. So many YTbers out there labelling all the shit that comes with narcissism and then it ends there. Thanks.
excellent presentation and explanation
Wow locked in on every word there is so much truth here.
Very interesting & informative. TY
The qualities you describe here are qualities I used to have in myself when I was younger. But, I let go of my passions and accepted my place of being labelled crazy or depressed. And guess what? Doing that hurt me in the long run. I never had passions or strived to become anything.
in school they always mentioned parents who coddled a kid too much and gave them rewards for doing nothing as a cause of narcissism later. its interesting to think of narcissism as the flip of that, where it's not entitlement as a formed habit but instead as a reaction to parents
Great insights as always. Your videos are immensely valuable towards my growth as an emerging mental health counselor.
What I have found in my experience is that Karma is the effect of a cause (this life or lifetimes ago) So being on the receiving end of a Narcissist is clearly the result of being one previously.. If the pain and anguish can be felt then transmuted into empathy and then forgiveness; the cycle ends... Most often though the cycle repeats where the "Victim" of a Narcissist will actually turn into a Narcissist by over compensating for the lack of positive attention received in the previous "narc relationship" by turning to "Self Help" which can often breed Narcissistic belief structures that promote "I come first" or "I deserve to be treated like a Queen/King" or "I am only going to be respected and appreciated" Which paradoxically will be perceived by the other as traits of a Narcissist... Conclusion: Work on yourself in private, regardless of the time it takes to be able to generate your own love and acceptance with out requirements that are dependant on anyone else. This prevents the cycle from reaccuring out of a need to find the " Perfect partner" based on the unhealed aspects of basically seeing what it felt like to be on the receiving end.. All of life is syncronisaties, what we receive is meant to teach lessons.. if one can see this deeper truth then true dna/rna healing can take place. The most brutal of truths swallowed with a humble heart can make way for the clouds to part and The Sun to shine in our lives again.. Just a perspective from a Man who has been both and am earnestly working to transend polarity in this context. Peace be with everyone on this Soul School journey of Earth existence 🕉️👁️💚
also we can discount character in the forming of a personality. yes narcs usually are abused and neglected....but arent a lot of us too? you were too and you are not a narc so.....no a narc child is usually abused but they are also very cold, selfish and wants respect above all things; thats their nature so when its coupled w/ abuse it turns them into a monster. whereas u see people who have been abused similarly or worse like a narc but they have sweet, helpful natures. psychology has done a great disservice in discounting children's base nature/character. we are definitely not "blank slates" like it has been theorized. you should interview george k. simon on this subject, it would be so interesting
also if a child is selfish and cruel but their parents and friends seem to like them anyway because they are viewed as "Strong" and coddle them anyway, and dont correct their bad behavior? that also compounds their horrible personality. i feel like narcs are simultaneously abused and spoiled
No child is inherently "horrible". Of course children have different temperaments, and thus different ways to cope with trauma, but no temperament is inherently flawed. Self-sacrificing people have something to learn from selfish people, just like selfish people has something to learn from self-sacrificing people. Being concerned with the Self is not an inherently bad thing, but of course selfishness can get unhealthy just like self-sacrificing behavior can become unhealthy also. Failing to put limits is also a form of emotional neglect, as the child is not taught how to self-regulate.
Daniel, thank you
This is hands down the best commentary I've heard on narcissism. Thank you for sharing your insights Daniel.
The problem is, instead of getting or receiving help for their childhood traumas, the narcissist would rather cause and create trauma in others.
I absolutely agree with you.
Narcissism breeds innovation. A helpful, more Noble person, more better, more Charitable....Narcissism...
Everything is true, except that you can not blame the parents for everything. The environement can abuse a child also, for instance by siblings in school, or by teachers who destroy the self esteem
It’s horrible what narcissists cause to those around them; I don’t want to invalidate the pain of their victims! But I love Daniel’s kindness and understanding about the source of this! I think he is right!
NAILED IT again.
Daniel, I've watched many of your videos and the insight you share with your listeners is quite wonderful. On the focus of this video, narcissism, I have some experience and it tells me your analysis is at least incomplete. I was the boyfriend of a single mom and her son was a raging narcissist, practically from birth. This, despite the fact that his mother worshiped the ground he walked/crawled on, adored him with every fiber of her being, catered to his every request. I cannot imagine a more devoted mother, yet as an adult he is clearly a narcissist (as his mother and siblings will readily acknowledge). He became a Wall Street fat cat, making millions, and leads a fairly happy and contented life with his family. So, I think your analysis about narcissists not being loved as children is a bit off.
Catering to his every request? Worshipping the ground the kid crawled on? Oh, oh!
Enmeshment is not love - it is self-love in disguise.
She sounds envious for him distancing himself (from what exactly???) - and is splitting by not taking any accountability for her parenting and calling him a narcissist.
Though, I don't have much personal sympathy for Wall Street fat cats, a narcissist is a master manipulator in maintaining a self-image at any cost for the purpose of a gain... They are usually very good in knowing how to present themselves, and exactly what to say.
And if what you are describing is your idea of a devoted mother, I think you might have some enmeshment trauma of your own that is easily taken advantage of by certain people... Hint hint.
Though, I might be completely wrong... But this was definitely the impression that I got.
best therapist in the freaking world
Thank you for this. My grandmother was a narcissist and she hurt alot of people. Yet she was abused for years in the most horrific ways so i can seperate who she is from the things she did. Hurt people hurt people, period.I find the label- when someone says they have been damaged by a narcissist- somehow makes people feel less responsible for healing in the moment. A narcissistic parent/lover/boss is mostly about headgames. Once you see through it- game over!
YEP....Spot on...However, we all have choices and those that have been abused by a Narc....Its a hell off a ride to recover from this abuse!
💯
I fit the definition of a narcissist, but I wasn't neglected as a child. In fact, I was always told by my parents and teachers that I was special and was going to do great things. So too much of either (neglect vs attention) could create a narcissist.
Daniel great video! I'm curious about 1. Whether you've ever seen someone with a fair amount of narcissistic traits try to change, 2. If so, how long and how hard did they try and 3. Again, if so, how far did they get? Thanks again!
You’ve just described my sister Cork.
I have often questioned myself if I am narcissistic, from what I have read on the net elsewhere and heard (through your videos), that I am not. I hate being the center of attention (it makes me uncomfortable). I am not jealous of the achievement of friends and family, if anything, I am proud and happy for them. However, I do feel miserable that I have not made much of my life, I do have a few achievements of my own but I've never gotten where I wanted to be with my life (I do realize though, that's not entirely my fault, I am responsible, but to a small extent). I do not have this air of grandiose about me that I'm the most important. I accept that I'm selfish in some ways (mostly with certain foods and when it comes to surviving a stupid day to day existence). I also accept that I'm arrogant (but I have my own reasons for being that way). I may have been perceived as narcissistic by friends and family, I am confused as to why, when and how, but that's not my fault, it would have been nice if I was just sat down and had open non-manipulative conversations with directly.
Damn bro. Stop calling me out 😂 I feel like the sense of vulnerability and extreme sensitivities is the driving force behind their grandiosity and everything that goes along with it. They’re really just hurt, broken and sensitive people. That’s why they’ll present as Covert at times, almost BPD-esque. Other times, they’ll present as Grandiose and larger than life.
It all depends on external validation. They’re very insecure people because of abuse and neglect. They also tend to not exist in regular life anyway. They may seem spacey sometimes because they’re living in a never ending fantasy world, where everyone loves and adores them and thinks they’re amazing. Scenario after scenario in their head playing out no matter what they’re doing. This is a defense mechanism adopted by them as a child. They couldn’t physically escape their environment, so they went inward. They often try to bring these fantasies to life by being grandiose, but often time, they fail. That’s the operating system, the oscillating pendulum of Covert and Overt traits in NPD.
No excuse for abuse. They don't seek therapy and make everyone around sick and worse. Sam vaknin is a good and trustworthy source. I think you never met a narc, but propably lots of clients that were raised by narcs or becoming a shell of themselves after engaging with them. Empathy towards them makes you a snack for their greedy supply needs.
appreciate you're look at the colloq. "narcissist"
I can't keep up with the twists of terms.
I thought a narcissist was someone who likes to see themselves/who cannot easily focus on outside of her interests/has to position herself in-frame to form perspective/has un-satiable need for repi-flection
Have you seen videos by youtube channel named Understanding Narcissists?? I think its an amazing channel. He explains narcissism in a lot more detail
Absolutely true. NPD is a result of early childhood trauma & cannot be resolved through outside success. One must do the inner work 🧐🌱🌛
This sounds more like a person with narcissistic tendencies than it sounds like a narcissist. A narcissist wouldn't care about being diagnosed as a narcissist, so long as the diagnosis didn't threaten their control over others.
Can someone with low self esteem who has been put on a pedestal by others and praised against their will become a "narcissist"?
Not so sure I agree with that. Except yes stuck at bonding stage of early childhood. And what about Covert Narcissism? They play victims and hide their true thoughts. Almost like conmen.
"Never underestimate the man who over estimates himself"
You’re lovely
I think it's impossible to categorize people when they all have their own unique history. Not everyone who is overlooked reacts in the same way. Narcissism is just an adjective but has been turned into a category of its own. If only therapists focused more on the whole person and practised some genuine compassion, instead of trying to categorize, label etc. therapy would be less painful.