Whetestone Wars - Battle 1K - Shapton Kuromaku Professional Stones vs. JNS 1000 Matukusuyama
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2021
- This is another epic battle! Whetstone Wars brings you two great companies. Once again we use the Moritaka Hamono 210mm AS Gyuto from tokushuknife.com
www.tokushuknife.com/shop/p/d...
#1000 is a very popular intermediate stone. Great for moderate stock removal. This stone is good to use prior to polishing.
Professional Stones are for those seeking an extremely high quality sharpening stone. You can rely on these fast-cutting and hard-wearing water stones to sharpen an unrivaled edge and be a joy to use, every time. Whether you are a professional looking for stones that won't let you down or a hobbyist who demands the best.
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Today's stones come from
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japanesenaturalstones.com/jns...
Sink bridges come from
Naniwa abrasive Mfg Sink bridge
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Tojiro Sink Bridge
www.chefknivestogo.com/to1.html
www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro...
Carlisle 10201B03 StorPlus Full Size Food Pan, Polycarbonate, 4" Deep, Black
www.amazon.com/Carlisle-10201...
Carlisle 10203B07 StorPlus Full Size Polycarbonate Food Pan, 8" Deep, Clear
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...
Carlisle 10203B03 StorPlus Full Size Polycarbonate Food Pan, 8" Deep, Black
www.amazon.com/Carlisle-10203... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Loving the Stone Wars series so far, Thank you for bringing it to us. Keep up the great work!
Thank you 🙏
Aaaah Greg! I have been looking for vids that compare the Kuromaku against others all over the place and couldn’t find anything like this. Thanks a ton! Max.
These are fun and I find super educational for me. I’m glad you’re getting something out of it
I am a "Ryky" man, but you are joining right in. You have done a fine and enjoyable review.
I understand. It's hard not to be. And I appreciate the compliment
The shapton is definitely a really nice stone. Coarser than most 1000’s but still gives a really nice finish. Also wears extremely slow.
Thank you for that input. I have not on the stone long enough to know it's wear and tear. I really appreciate hearing from you. Thank you for the support.
Love the Shaptons!!! The 1000 is more of an 800 IMHO, but all fast cutters that don't dish easily...Great bang for the buck if you buy the kuromaku branded ones.
The Shapton 2000 is the best feeling stone I think I have ever used...the 5000 may be along the worst feeling (but still does a great job).
This Is what I said is something between #7-800 it makes No Sense compare a different grits.
@@SteefaTak For a newb, I would imagine that most people would think that the 1000 is a true 1000 grit, so it is worth testing it and seeing that the 1000 is at a lower grit. I certainly thought that the 1k korumaku was a true 1k for a LONG while
I appreciate everybody on this thread. Thank you for your support and I’m loving reading everything that you guys are writing. It was my first experience with the brand
@@nadm Yeah, you're doing great! I picked up two 1k shaptons for me and my best friend. You really inspired me to get some sharpening time today on it!
I really enjoyed this one. And first of all, yes, definitely mic your wife! She is an equal partner in this endeavor and it's obvious that she knows what's up and has good observations about all facets of your sharpening journey. And she has seen enough knives go on enough stones and then through enough test materials to know when it's good or not.
Second, l was as surprised as you by the paper towel cut results. The Shapton kuromaku series is one where every stone has a unique personality and has been designed for specific purposes. And their 1k stone is specifically designed to grind out the scratch pattern from their 320. But then unlike most makers, Shapton also offers 1500 and 2k stones in the same lineup, whereas most jump from 1k range to at least 3k and sometimes more. And l can tell you from experience that the 1500 and 2k exist mostly because their 5k is much more polishy and cannot easily cope with the brutish 1k. And yet, you have shown that the 1k by itself can deliver a serviceable edge, which is a testament to the underrated versatility of a common workhorse stone.
Anyway, nicely done and very impressive result with the Kuromaku 1k.
I thanks buddy. My wife is actually agreeing to learn how to sharpen on the show. She never has taken the time to learn how to do it. She's been around enough. I agree with you that if you have technique you can do what you need to do on a 1K Stone.
I would still love to see these knives after stropping. It is definitely good to know how the stones are as is, but as you said yourself, the strop makes all the difference. Can you please do a naked strop post off the stone testing to check for improvements.
I agree but the point is to see everything that the stone is doing. A lot of people who use Japanese natural stones would never put their knife on leather. It has been proven that you can get a great edge without doing it. Like you said, the research that I've done especially with the work from knife grinders has shown that it does make a difference. The goal is just to see what we can get done with the stone.
The new battles will be with cBN stones and vitrified/sintered diamond stones :)
Considering price isn't that much different but cutting ability is hugely improved.
Diamond just eats steel.
There are some of those that are very priced high. I mean, some of them are $400 per stone. It's hard to get all the people involved for that price point.
@@nadm The Venev stones are in the ballpark of 100$ , other makers are there as well.
You are probably talking about the shawn houston stones, never had the pleasure to use them.
Also would probably never spend 400$ for a single stone .
There's ukranian producers making cBN stones too, chinese makers etc...
I just recently bought: 320, 1000, 5000. I'm thinking about buying 2000.
Great video ;)
Thank you very much and enjoy your purchase. Your ready to go!
The Shapton pro 2000 is the best stone of this line.
Shapton are my favorite stones.
I was there quickly becoming mine
The Shapton is known to be and really sounds a bit rougher than the JNS. If that's true, it takes off more material and sharpens more quickly than the JNS with the same number of strokes. Therefore, the JNS may be able to sharpen just as well but with several more strokes. In other words, the knife sharpened with the JNS simply isn't finished.
I think it performed quite evenly. It just came down to the fact that on that particular great you were able to do more with the Shapton. I think of you use the entire system and do more in the progression you can get to a better place but this test was just for one stone.
Great video, I own the 1000 Shapton and it's a fantstic stone. I'm looking for a 3000 grit, woud you reccomend the MORIHEI Greg ?
The reason the answer is no it’s because the 3000 grit does not come in the “fire“ line that they created. They discontinued the solid green 3000 grit and it is OK but it is not something to write home about. I would definitely go with the Naniwa over it! I think some of the other big-name companies will beat out Morihei At that particular great rating
I would like to apologize if I comment too much, but the carbides in the blue super aren't too harsh for standard stones ?
I'm not gonna say I know the science behind that but I will say that I've never had a problem. Maybe some cheap stones could have a problem but I haven't had any so far but I have not used super blue on all of my stones so far.
What do you use to dull the knives? I want to dull some knives to practice my sharpening on and I'm finding dulling a knife isn't as easy as I thought it would be. Thank you.
That is a $35 natural stone called Amakusa
Shapton stones are great I luv them
I just wish they gave you more stone. The stones are thicker but the glass stones are so thin.
@@nadm yeah that’s why I wouldn’t buy the glass stones they work great but pretty chimpsy on size I’ll stick with the kuramaku series 🤙
I have a question on stone choice. But in all fairness I should start off with what stones I have: a combination stone 1K/3K and a 12K shapton. The combination stone was given to me, I don't know the brand but it was used on straight razors. It has both cutting and polishing properties.
I have heard the best things about Naniwa professional stones, especially the 2K and the 3K, and came across two packages I'm considering: 400-1000-3000 and 600-2000-5000.
Would you consider these as good packages? Which one would be the better and on what steel? I have a couple of knives: VG10 Kurasaki, R2 Takamura, AS and S2 Masakage, AS and A2 Moritaka.
BTW, I find the 1K side often slow, but I must say, most of the work I did was on making an edge at a lower angle, widening the micro bevel (when you look for side).
What would be the better choice of the two for me? Would you have any better suggestions?
OK, you have really good knives. When talking about knives then you really don’t need anything above a 3000. I like the first choice with the 400, 1000, 3000. The other choice is also excellent. I don’t think you’re going to have a bad time. I don’t think you can go wrong so it just comes down to what do you want. If you already have a 1/3 combo and the 12 K then you might go with the 600, 2000, 5000 to fill in the void. If you’re using the 12 K for your razors and that’s fine but you really don’t need to 12 K for your knife. I have not found that my 10 K or 12 K or contributing anything so far. I’m still messing with that. Are your knives then you don’t need anything higher than 3K. 5K is nice if you have it but she don’t need it. I don’t know if that was helpful but your knobs are absolutely wonderful and you really don’t need anything higher than the 3K. I don’t know if I was awful and I’m sorry
@@nadm not bad at all 👍🏻. I guess it depends on the combination of stone and knife (the steel type, geometry and hardness). My masakage's were a good comparison in my last sharpening session. The S2 took and edge much faster on the same stone than the AS.... guess it's a bit trial and more trial. I just don't wanna choose the good stuff. But with Naniwa pro you can't go wrong, can you?
Like you said, you definitely cannot go wrong with that stone. They’ve been in the game for so long. They know what’s up!
So I didn't watch the full video because I didn't have time. I just watched the ending and the results. JNS stones seem good for polishing. I think if you want a nice Kasumi finish and you're not using naturals, it's hard to find synthetic stones that give a comparable result when it comes to a Kasumi finish. In your opinion, how did the shapton compare here? I think this is where the JNS synthetics shine
The Sharpton won the battle for sharpening. It's very obvious if you get a chance to watch the entire movie. There are some synthetic stones that are very good for polishing and they are by a company called Morihei
Yeah finaly🤤🥰 But only my opinion Kuromaku is not my champion by a long shot.. I have 12k and the stone is death, no feedback and handfeel.. Maybe different grits# are better but im really disappointed with this stone😔.. Naniwa Chosera and Suehiro Cerax1k , Ouka3k and Rika5k are my champions.. I'll try to get some Shapton Glass , maybe they will perform better (Shapton Pro 12k has amazing polish i wont take that away from it but the feedback unfortunately is death).. Again Thank you for another great one🙏
This is my first time using them and I only use the one stone. I’ve used their glass series. Maybe the 1000 grit is completely different. I have not gotten up to their 12,000. It’s on the list but it’s way down on my list of something to acquire. I have not had any luck with enjoying the 12,000 grit that I got from a different company. Like you said, they don’t give any feedback.
What's your other #12000 stone for comparison ? The #12000 Is a polishing stone not a sharpening Stone (feedback).
Morihei
@@SteefaTak I know its polishing stone🤦♂️ I have new cerax 10000# and that stone is just absolutely incredible.. 12k shapton pro is loading a lot, there is no or very little feedback and not pleasant handfeel (that being said the stone gets beautiful polish).. 10k NC doesnt load at all , the feedback is amazing and feels really luxurious and on top of that , its faster as well.. The only negative it needs soak.. Thats my comparison.. Safe to say it was disappointing to try Kuromaku cause everyone talks how great they are and maybe some of them are but this one deffinitely isn't!!!!!!!!
@@georgeyoung4292 There will be always a fight between fast not wearing Stone with mirror finish without feedback against slower fast wearing Stone with hazy finish with Great Feedback. You have also have # 2000 difference between them. The Kuromaku loads allot because it's fast for a 12000 😉 Say hello to Burrfection Riki from me 😁
Under the microscope the shapton 1k is more like a 600 ish scratch pattern.. I use the 1.5 in place of it.. nice vid.
I agree that it had a feeling of being more abrasive and at the same time it had such a better edge for cutting the paper towel. The end result was really good. Between the $18 and the cutting the paper towel, I thought like I had to give it because it was money saved. I think if you’re in Europe than the other one is the better choice because of the amount of money you’re going to spend shipping it. I do like the micro burr on the other one. It goes to longevity. The Shapton was just fun.
@@nadm Shapton is one of the cheapest here in Europe , but that's for the future , I've already spent PLENTY of money into stones 🙈.
@@nadm Is the cerax 1000 a soaker ? soft or hard stone?
@@dimmacommunication cerax is a soaker but don’t need much only like 15min .. I got one that I permanently soak and is fantastic
Shapton is pretty coarse for a 1000 grit stone. One of my favorite stones of all time is a cheap kai warehouse combination home stone 300/1000 grit I think, very soft very quick wearing very cheap like 20 bucks cheap. Not good for tools though LOL so I got shaptons.
Sounds like the voice of experience. We appreciate your knowledge and thank you for sharing. It was definitely a fun test. We have a new whetstone war coming this weekend.
Have you ever tried the King Hyper 1000? If you have, how did you like it?
I literally just got it in the mail two days ago. I haven't opened it yet. We will get to it at some point. I'll probably use it in a whetstone war and learned for the first time on the show
It has been my understanding that most stone manufacturers use naniwa abrasives to make their stones.
I am unaware of that. I would have to do more research to find out if that was true. I'm definitely unaware of that being true. There's several big companies especially out of Japan that manufacture their own abrasives. I think we'll have to know more before we start throwing that type of information around. I appreciate your comment. It will be interesting to look that up
@@nadm Kevin Kent told me that about a year ago when I was asking about the differences in synthetic stones,
Well that’s very interesting. I’ll have to look into it
How about Chosera vs. Shapton?
It's going to happen. We're building up the suspense
Shapton glass are a step up from these stones
That will be a different video.
I have some glass stones also
You should do chosera professional vs shapton glass my two favorite stones 800 chosera and than 3000 grit chosera they produce a very sharp edge hard to beat
@@jasonerickson1033 it is on the list. We're doing one of these wars a month. We do a sharpening video once a month. We do it on boxing/blacksmith profile once a month. We try to do an interview or some type of product knowledge as well. We have already shot all of the shows for the rest of the year. That does not include the show that we do at the end of the year which is the 21 knives of 2021. We've shot a couple of whetstone wars that are coming out. One is coming out this Friday. We're working on bringing you everything.
IMO...The Shapton Kuromaku 1000 is more like an 800 grit. It should be compared with Naniwa Chosera 800. Chosera 800 and 1000 grits are considered by many as the true Kings..
And I believe we will have to come to that. I have to go by the markings on the side. There are a lot of people who have never use these products. They will be purchasing them and they will read the word 1000 grit on the side. They need to know what they’re getting into. We do have to recognize the fact that the blade was left a little sharper. You can say that it’s because it was toothy, But in the end, we went by the $18 price difference and how it felt and the results of the blade using only the one stone per competitor. The other competitor performed immensely well. I tried to recognize that and pointed out. These bottles are going to be sometimes one by ridiculously close margins. We will definitely have that battle that you recommend at some point
I’m also very happy to let other competitors get a shot at them
more like a 700
Shapton has its own grit standard. shapton 1k = 14.7 microns, in the jis system it is 700-800.
jis 1000~10 microns, shapton 1k is 50% rougher.
shapton 1500=9.8 microns, this is classic 1000 according to the jis system.
Should be really useful a battle for setting bevel on steels tool 01 between Shapton glass 1000k, Shapton Kuromaku 1000k, Choosera 1000k Why? Because these are the three top stones! In the market! Most say Shapton Kuromaku 1000k is not 1000k so it could perhaps be substituted by Shapton Kuromaku 1500k !!!!! These are the best synthetic stones! Think all will agree!
Yes, technically I agree. They have been around the longest. I think there's some other players in the game at that particular grits. But overall, I would agree with you that if you just were to pick any random size that you could probably be guaranteed the most fantastic results from those three companies. I would only agree when it comes to sharpening. Not necessarily from polishing but I do believe you left out the Suehiro. That company has won several bottles and other than you having to actually soak the splash and go for about five minutes, the results are incredible
@@nadm Unfortunately I bought both Cerax and also the premium Surhiro Debado ! and I discover they have a horrific double angles you have to modify! For this reason I excluded it!!! I bought everything possible on the market
I grabbed a JNS 1000 alongside a natural during Maksim's birthday sale and was excited to have a splash and go alternative to my cerax 1000 but lo and behold it is the worst polisher I have ever used. horrid. to the point where I have to go back to my SG500s to clean up the mess it makes. tried a few different things with it and I just cannot understand how a 1000 grit stone can leave such deep scratches in soft iron that even my Natsuya cannot clean them up. I like the SP2000 and would consider the 1000 but if it's even lower grit than the JNS then I think Im out. as far as how fast it cuts an edge I mean I can use the SG500 and it shreds metal and jump straight to natsuya/aizu without issue. dunno just havent found that perfect 1k, maybe if I could get a splash and go cerax...
Yes sir! I would never use it as a polisher. I wasn’t impressed with the company but I was more impressed this time in Sharpening. Overall I just don’t think everything holds up but there are a couple of their stones that are pretty good. I still think as a whole with the price that I would just stay away from them all together
I have Shapton pro 120, 320, 1k, 2k and 5k (in edge pro size). The 1k pro don't leaves deep scratches, it's more like a very hazy finish, but very uniform. However... If you have the glass 500 and the pro 2k, I think it's already a very good progression
@@KellAlbuquerque hey Kell yes pro 2k works well after SG500, but actually I got 2 chosera/naniwa pro 1k stones recently and I love them after sg500. really really like the Chosera stuff now.
I find that the shapton is more like an 800 grit.
Very fun to use
Ive heard good things about jns
I think they're really good and they always are just so close to winning their battles but some of the other top branches really have the edge because they do it all the time. If you live in Europe, then it's a good price but to pay all the shipping isn't worth it if you live in America