Tecumseh HMSK80 Valve Job - John Deere TRS26
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มี.ค. 2021
- Step by Step!
Today we'll be doing a valve job on a Tecumseh HMSK80 engine, that's on a John Deere TRS26 snow blower.
This snow blower would not start when it was delivered to me.
With the piston passed TDC on the compression stroke (both valves closed) and using my OTC Leak Down Tester, I was able to see that there was an exhaust valve leak, as air was escaping through the muffler.
Once we tear down the engine, it is clear that someone else may have worked on it previously, as shown by the exhaust valve seat looking freshly cut.
After grinding and filing the valve stem tip gave us the proper Valve-Tappet clearance, we lapped the exhaust valve in, and sealed it up.
With the exhaust valve now sealed up, we then realize that the intake valve is also leaking, but wasn't noticeable, as the exhaust valve leak was worse.
Unfortunately, this is where we run into some complications. As much as I tried to lap the intake valve, it just wouldn't seal up.
I called my customer, and we decided to refinish both valves, by cutting a new 45* valve face.
I repeated the same tolerance check steps on the exhaust valve, setting the exhaust valve clearance to 0.010" cold (which should be 0.008" hot), lapped it in, and sealed it up once again.
I then focused my attention to the intake valve, only to discover it had a small warp (caused by heat) and wasn't "true."
I was able to source a used Tecumseh HMSK 80 intake valve, that was pulled from an engine that ran, and was able to file the Valve-Tappet tolerance to 0.008" lap it in, and finally seal it up!
With the Intake Valve set to 0.008" and the Exhaust Valve set to 0.010" I installed a new STENS 425-450 head gasket, reassembled the engine, and brought it outside to test it out.
The engine fired up on the 1st pull, and ran smoothly. I made a slight adjustment to the carb, and returned it to a very happy customer!
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So a couple people have asked how the machine shop could've missed that warp in the intake valve when they machined a new 45° face.
My theory is that they installed the valve in the lathe chuck near the valve head. In the video, I installed the valve into my drill chuck further down the stem.
Because the warp is in the valve stem, they wouldn't have noticed. The further the valve head is from the chuck, the more it will wobble.
To test this theory, I reinstalled the warped intake valve into the drill chuck, this time closer to the valve head, and the wobble is not noticable at all.
This is why the manufacturer recommends using V-Blocks and a Dial Indicator (as shown on the infographic) to properly inspect a valve for warp.
Have had one drill chuck wobble a valve, and another drill did not.
I would not have used a chuck in the lathe, but a collet. Lathe chucks always have some error in them.
You still would think the shop would test but I guess maybe they assume you do ?
AllWAYS chuck at very tip/ end of valve stem
They didn’t know what they were doing
AllWAYS chuck back and check straight first thing
The most comprehensive explanation of compression leak diagnosis and repair that I have seen. Nice work and thank you! Just hit subscribe!
Hey excellent video tutorial. I worked at a old equipment shop and the owner had us do valve laps , checks on every older engines. The machines left the shop and all It took was half pull on the cord to start.
Thanks for keeping it simple and clear. Some tend to excruciate over valve job details like they are race engines. TY.
Great repair with great explanations along the way. Glad I came accross your channel.
Thanks for watching!
I feel that I have graduated Tecumseh Valve School ! This Young fella is very thorough and wastes no time with uh, um's or like's in his vocabulary ! Almost unheard of these days. A+++ 100%
Great informative video. it was perfect that you ran into that problem with the intake valve as it showed what needs to be done to diagnose and fix it, I would have thought I did a bad lapping job and not checked the trueness of the valve. This is great timing as I am starting 2 valve jobs. Thank you for sharing your expertise. You are one of the best in youtube.
Thanks for watching, and good luck!
Excellent video, clear and concise, professionally done. I enjoyed video very much. Bought a leak down tester as a result! Keep teaching so we can keep learning.
Thanks for watching!
This video helped me immensely on my HHM80 on a TroyBilt tiller. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
Nice to see an in depth valve job. Nice job.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome instructional video. The tips and tricks you share are much appreciated. Helped to keep my 5.5 HP tecumseh going strong for another season of heavy wet snow.
Never enough info !! Thanks so much.
Another great video from EP. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR VIDEOS EVERY WEEK. WELL SPOKEN AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND . THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP
Thanks for watching!
Tremendous video Eliminator!
Thanks for excellent video on valve job
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the video!
Great repair and tips...Thank you
Yet another awesome tutorial buddy. Thank you for sharing
Thanks!
Just an outstanding video.
You are the best! great job!
Good video. Lot's of detail. I have a 190cc B&S on a Toro 22" mower that has an exhaust valve leak. Like you, I don't have sophisticated tools, but I'm taking notes on your techniques. I think you gave me enough information that I can fix my Toro. Thanks.
Excellent job and commentary. Always wondered how a valve got longer and needed to be shortened.
Thanks for watching!
This is an Awesome video! My HSMK90 exhaust glows and fire comes out so I think I need to do this.
Dam dude your work is awesome! Your customers better appreciate the work you put into this because over here in BC Canada the private mechanics are well not that attentive to detail.
Thanks for the kind words!
Great video! Thank you.
Like always great video well explained
Awesome video Jake. Really enjoyed it. Way better than watchin my bracket collapse.
Thanks for watching!
Great video thank you for the help
Fantastic! Thank you. Well done.
Buddy...that was a great video...thanks man!
Subscribed.
awesome video. Thank you
Great vid, thankyou
I'm not one to over comment on youtube, but I am adding to the thanks for the clear and concise video. I expected seeing the length that it might waste some time, it did not and covered critical questions that the shorter video I had watched on the subject did not. Cheers, subscribed
Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for watching!
@@EliminatorPerformance I'm headed out to the shop to finish this valve job now with a full picture of what I need to look out for and do. No guess work involved. Once again, as someone who watches a lot youtube fixit videos, this is clean editing, without skipping diagnostics and troubleshooting, no fluff and pump intro just solid and to the point content. Good work all around. Keep it up
@@elementadept436 good luck, that's how I try to make all my videos!
Thanks Man , with that much content , you deserve more than one thumbs up !!!!
Appreciate it!
Very good instruction of diagnosis and resolve. When stems are bent it can unevenly wear the valve stem guide sleeve. Being the original intake valve stem was too long it probably bent the stem. Who ever touched it before you failed to follow proper valve sizing and laping.
Thanks for watching!
Nice demo with the leak down tester. When you are adjusting the valve lash, it is more accurate to do it after lapping since this step also removes metal causing the clearance to get smaller. Also, if the valve is firmly pressed down onto the seat you can measure the clearance without putting the springs back on. A little oil on the valve stems while lapping is a good idea.
I always just pushed down with my Thumb on old Tecumsehs. Put the Spring on when I was finished
Great video
Thanks for watching!
Great vid!!!!👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Nice video👍
Thanks for watching!
Excellent 👍😊😊😊😊
Great video give us more.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome video bro we learn boath of tips
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for a wonderful video right to the point and very thorough. This is exactly what I needed to look at my Tecumseh HM80 engine. Just a note...this is my second 10hp engine for my 15yr old Craftsman snowblower. I heard your engine run at the end of the video and, ( not directed at you ) it seems to run very rough, just like both of the engines for mine. My recent engine is brand new old stock from a sealed box, bought from a small engine shop because apparently, this engine is no longer produced. I take super meticulous care of my things, always changing the oil, lubing the cables, etc. My snow blower looks brand new, and yet for no obvious reason it began to knock quite loudly. I've never over revved the engine or even ran it at full speed, and never overloaded it. I always went out several times during a storm so as not to abuse my machine. Upon inspection, the connecting rod and crankshaft were scored so bad it was like there was no oil, yet the oil was still pretty clean minus the silvery metal. I was ready to start tearing into this new engine because it runs rough and popps a bit from the exhaust, just like the origional engine from day one. Poor manufacturing I guess.
These engines don't like low rpm, you set the jetting and adjust the rpm to the point where they idle and stay running basically lol they're no Honda, that's for sure!
Thanks!
Job well done. The dude that cut the exhaust valve seat didn't know what he was doing, and gave up. I use a hand file also for filing down valve stems.
Thanks for watching, and yes, when dealing with thousands of an inch, I always go slow, take my time, it's ok if it takes a couple times to get it right!
Someone else that cut that seat did not let the customer know they had done work on the valve seat before they brought it to your shop to get it running. Other than missing the bent intake valve you did a great job on this engine. Too bad you have to go through so many checks to ensure you get the proper valve to tappet clearance but you have shown all of us just what it takes to get it correct. I suggest you source a couple of V blocks and a dial indicator.
Yes, definitely a good idea. And waiting for a Neway seat cutter! Thanks for watching!
Valve machine will fix it quick and correct
Check for straight stem and head also
Proper way to cut stem straight also
Looking at getting one!
Carbon is causing lots of value problems, such heavy buildup and holding valve open
Leak down tester is very very handy
Nice video. I would suggest that since you work on engines that you get a small surface plate and an inexpensive height gauge for making measurements. You can get used units on eBay for not too much money. You will be happy about the time you will save. You will be able to check parts and file to exact measurements without having to through the tedious and time consuming iterative process that you showed on this video.
He needs to just buy a used oil machine and be set for life
I'm a retired machinist and I agree 100% with your comment, I have used my digital dial calipers in the same fashion.
I always set the valves @ 10 & 10
Great diagnosis and repair. If you were unable to get a new valve easily, do you think you could straighten the old bent valve? Has anyone watching this tried to straighten an old bent valve?
What is the root cause of this valves situation ? I learned a lot from this video and this will serve me greatly to tackle my dad's hmsk100 snowblower engine. It will be a first time for me. Excellent video. Thx for sharing your passion!
You should call yourself Mr Perfection 🤣
Very good video. Too bad that when those engines lose power with out of spec valve clearance, almost all of the engine needs to be taken apart.
I had a 5hp tecumseh and it would start and run fine but die when engaged to snow. Someone suggested checking exhaust valve. It had zero clearance. Ground to spec and it blows again.
Good to hear, thanks for watching!
Sorry should have said never too much info. Thanks again.
I have a Black and Decker valve grinder likely from 1940's with flat head Ford tools. You would be surprised how much it gets used. Considering an automotive head is $300 for a valve job you can pay for a good used machine in 2 heads IF YOU KNOW HOW and why to use one. Mine won't take the tiny valves, the pump is shot and needs bearings. I'll probably look for a new machine and I understand Sunnen is getting hard to find parts for lately.
some one probably seen your video an wanted to play lawnmower mechanic 😜
I just bought a vintage ZIM manual valve refacer on Ebay-$27.00
Screw to the bench, or put in your bench vise...
I've got a Troy-Bilt tiller with an H35 Tecumseh engine. I made the mistake of loaning it to a friend and have not been able to get it going since. I replaced the carb, then rebuilt the old carb - no change. I could get it to run weakly, but no power. I decided to tear it down and do the valves and replace the rings after a compression test showed about 40psi. All back together, I was getting about 100psi but I still can't make it run well. *I had it going and noticed it was puffing fuel mix OUT the carb. Can anything cause this other than intake valve?* I ended up replacing that valve, lapping it until the seat was mirrored and grinding the end until I had a little more than .008" fully closed. Very frustrated. I made a home-made fitting to connect my compressor with a pressure gage on it. I'm thinking about pulling off the carb and muffler and doing what you demonstrate here with compressed air.
It's been 10 months since you posted but did you ever find out and fix what was wrong with yours? I'm having the exact same issues.
My 10 horse Tecumseh on an old Simplicity snowblower died this winter. I'd had carb issues with it over the years so bought one on Amazon after rebuilding the old one. It still wouldn't run and only produced huge 'crap your drawers' explosions out the muffler.
I too have a lot of air blowing out the carb. I suspected a blown head gasket so ordered a new one and installed it today. Still no joy. While cranking it over with the electric start I saw small droplets of gas blowing out the carb. I removed the dipstick and and there's a LOT of air blowing out. It was pretty disappointing so I put it to the side in my garage.
This evening it still bugged me so started searching TH-cam videos and found this one. It got me so intrigued that I'm going to check leakdown tomorrow. At this point I suspect the intake valve is bent from a backfire when it was running with the old carb.
Although I thought this was a great instructional video, I think you could have done a quicker job by not putting the springs back on after every adjustment. I just get it lapped and get my gap in one go. Then put the springs on. It seems you wasted a lot of time and effort. But, as I said ‘great video’.
@26:00 Valve lapping paste exists for this purpose
I lap the valve with paste, I just mentioned the sandpaper because it's more aggressive and if you don't have a valve seat cutter tool then it works really good. I would recommend lapping after as always.
Nicely done. A bit of blow-by at the Piston Rings. Thank You. The machine shop should have caught that bent valve. Not quite like a 3 angle valve job on a SBC. Where in Ontario are you?
I’m thinking a quick and dirty method to determine if the valve stem is straight would be to roll it along the side of a sheet of plate glass with the head of the valve hanging over the edge. That could work, right?
I’m not sure, but I’ve heard that the intake and exhaust valves have different seat angles. You had them both cut at the same angle.
Hey, Jake! Great video, as always. Working on my first flathead and first valve adjustment ever.
You didn’t show exactly how you filed the stem tips so I’m going to improvise. I’ll drill a hole in a block of wood in my drillpress so it’s perfectly vertical, so a valve stem fits just snug. Then insert the valve and mount the stem in my bench vise with the block of wood sitting on top of the vice using a feeler gauge to lower the tip so just the amount I want to remove is exposed. Then use a fine file to remove some but not all of that amount. Back into the engine to test the clearance and repeat as necessary. I think in this way I can keep the file as perpendicular to the stem as possible and only remove what I want - no more. What do you and Pops think about that idea?
Good ideal
Having problems with same engine it pops though the exhaust just doesn't run right ,have cleaned carb and even installed a new carb with no difference in running. I don't have a compression tool but guy I got it from said it was good , any ideas maybe head gasket, or valves.
With new valves do you need to do lapping compound??
Wow! I'm so impressed.
Just bought some tools to do some job on my snowblower.
Filler gauge, compression tester
Just want to ask, any reason why on winter, it's really difficult o start my snowblower to extent that it won't start in winter, but this summer, it just take a pull to start it. Thanks
Likely valves or carb, if the valves aren't sealing or not in spec for lash, then they don't pull in fuel as good. Additionally, if the carb needs adjusting then the same thing.
Hi. Recently I start having problems with my lawn mower. The problem is that I don't have good compression y check de valves and it moves and seel freely until I saw the piston walls and I discover that it have scratches that I can feel with my fingers nail. So the question is can I rebuld the engine?
Excellent excellent job on the video. I have to echo the comments that glad you had trouble with the intake valve so we could see the solution there as well. You have to come clean though......did that engine really start up first pull off choke ?
Thanks, and yes I wanted all that in there, shows that they don't have to be perfect, but the machines don't leave unless I'm happy with them. And yes, they always fire 1st pull in warmer weather with just pressing the primer bulb twice. If it was colder I probably would've had to use the choke.
how do you id the intake valve on a v twin vanguard 35hp?
Good info.Where did you get that spring compressor tool?
Are both at 45 degree seats? Do the Briggs use 30 degrees on one of the valves and 45 on the other?
Where do I get replacement valve guides ?
This is very interesting.I have a Troybilt with a 5.5 Tecumseh that I had a problem sealing up like you did,but the way I got a good seal was just to do alot of lapping and they finaly sealed.I did a leak down after I was done and with 50 psi in I got a leak of about 39 psi which is about 22% leak down.Do you think it is leaking bad pass the rings yet.The engine starts alot better and seems to run great
I want to ask you about this valve problem.I have a Tecumseh 5.5 hp flat head engine on my Troybilt snow blower and it has this same problem.I also noticed that the valve guides are worn and the valves seem to have alot of play.Do they have such a thing as a oversized valve stem that I could get or a bushing I could put in to tighten up the valve guild play that you know about.I know that on Briggs engines they have a repair kit with a reamer and guide,but do not see anything like this for Tecumseh engines.
My Tecumseh starts easily and runs relatively well however, it will back fire through the carb then immediately through the exhaust. I'm thinking valve issue but not sure. Any guidance would be helpful.
I was wondering if you have alot of valve guide wear on these flathead engines can you ream the guide out and put in a sleeve or bushing like they do on Briggs and Stratton engines.Or is this something that a machine shop has to do.I see with Briggs they use a pilot and reamer and then put asleeve in.
I don’t think many Shops bother with valve jobs anymore. Rings even less. Shop rates are too high. Many don’t even overhaul carbs. I would bet only a few older guys out there have ever put in a Briggs valve bushing…. I have:
My intake has over .020 and my exhaust is 0. Both tappets are the same length down to .0001. Why are my gaps so different?
Excellent video all the way around!
Not sure you'll reply because the video is 2 years old but...
In your video it showed a white valve guide (?) built into the spring top cap. It was on the intake valve whereas I was working on my 10hp Tecumseh today and the spring cap with the white insert is on the exhaust valve. I put it back the way I found it when I had the valves out today but if it's supposed to be on the intake valve should I move it? Looks like somebody was in there before me if so. Not surprising as this Simplicity snowblower is ancient.
Thanks again for the great video!!!
Due to the heat I would assume they would only use it on the intake valve. 151A shows it as the Tecumseh 35862 intake valve seal. If you Google that part number, it shows it as either black or white in color. The diagram shows it on the right side, but the intake valve is on the left, and it's an intake valve seal to prevent fuel from going down the valve into the cylinder. I would not recommend running it on the exhaust side.
www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/manufacturer/tecumseh/4-cycle-horizontal/hmsk-80/hmsk80-155524s-155524s-hmsk80/engine-parts-list-1
@Eliminator Performance I thought the same about the heat too while putting it back where I found it. I need to tear it all down again anyway so I'll correct that...it's still aspirating OUT of the carb and cranks but no start, only the occassional horrendous backfire explosion. A new head gasket, new carb from Amazon, spark plug, and oil change did nothing to get it running again.
I subscribed not just for excellent content, but also because you took the time to reply to me on a 2 year old video. Well done!!
Beautiful job , Great video . If you ever need parts , give me a call . I have a spare HM 80 complete . I thought you would have a big hoard of used machines for parts .
I ended up scrapping most of it as it took up too much space, and also used up quite a bit of my used parts stash, thanks for the offer, and thanks for watching!
Where are you located?
@@waynestefinashen239 Brampton ,Ontario
Do you remember if the engine had a cast iron sleeve or just aluminum?
Very good job !!!!!!
I have a question for you === i have a Toro mower that don't start anymore
1) did valve job ( like you did i this video )
2) carburator job ,fuel line ok
3)spark ok
4) key way on flywheel =ok
5) piston psi pressure 60
Still no start
What could it be ????
Piston ring ??
Timing gear inside the motor ???
Waiting for your feedback
Thanks
What
If you spray carb cleaner into the cylinder and it fires and dies, it's probably carburetor/fuel related. If it doesn't fire up, then it's spark or compression related. Hope this helps
When they had the valve in the valve grinder, if it was bent they woulda noticed right away. Using your drill is a good idea but definitely no precision way of measuring valve stems.
Yea I thought for sure they would've noticed it, but there's no way I would've bent that
@Eliminator Performance I saw your updated post after I opened my flapper!
I've got a hssk50 in where it wouldn't start right or idle worth crap. Has a adjustable carb with air style jet, the long one that has the metering rod u can hear when shaken. Anyways spent a lot of time checking carb, fuel system, carb, spark yada yada yada. Decided to do leak down. No clearance on exhaust valve and guide has lots of slop. I can't find any oversized valves... guess I'm gunna make a new bronze guide. Don't know what else 2 do other than that or just make sure it has valve clearance and run it with a sloppy valve guide.
Hey! What is that tool ya used to remove those springs ?
Check it out, it's a modified trim removal tool th-cam.com/video/tWH_mkUbMUE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jYhqMsb4nahnFAtg
So the machine shop couldn't see that wobble on the lathe????
I thought for sure they would've said something, they were machining it and had to have noticed. Either way, I fixed the issue. Lesson learned, we can't always rely on others! Thanks for watching!
@@EliminatorPerformance too bad their mistake cost you a lot of time....I hate when that happens.
Is the moral of the story just order new valves instead? Then it's not your time driving around and stuff. Ah but then again you got to drive your sweet truck. Lol
Yes but also my mistake for not checking, so I take part of the blame. Lesson learned! Also, the shop is around the corner from me so not too far. I suppose you could buy replacement valves yes, but as long as the old valves are true, a new face makes them like new!
@@EliminatorPerformance Nice to have a machinist around the corner. Mine is an 8 minute drive away.
Would they have cut the valve seat because the valve was a little bit bigger
Who knows, this is how I received the machine, not sure what was done before, as the customer said it was at someone else's shop before it came to me. Thanks for watching!
Out off adjustment
Additionally, vee blocks are also pretty cheap on eBay.
Yea I still need to pickup a set
Can you check the values without the springs on ? Seems it would be easier i case you have to go back and file them down a bit.
You could but it's advised the spring is there to hold it down while checking specs
@@EliminatorPerformance thank you
Yes with a simple hold down plate and head bolts
Easy to make and saves time
Same thing to hold down liners in Diesel engines
what's a job like this cost?
i made the mistake of grinding a valve about 3 thousandths too much ! i did not lap it yet i may get it or i may not ? but have you ever added metal to a valve stem " welding " real quick just to save buying another valve ? thank you god bless
I've never welded them but it's theoretically possible. These valves are made to withstand heat, but that's in the guide. If you had it out and welded it, I'm sure it could warp. For the cost, my advice would just be to get a new or used one that's true.
@@EliminatorPerformance i hear you at age 68 having been a mechanic for a very long time and a welder sometimes you just go hey ! what if ? LOL ,,,, was just wondering if anyone had thought of it besides this old man LOL ,,,,thanks for your opinion
Most exaust valves I've seen have been cleaner than the intake valve.
AllWAYS that way. Most heat goes passed exhaust valve on the way out
Good Job, you can work on my equipment anytime, too bad you're so far away :)
Thanks for watching!
EP, I like the initiative but there is a lot more that needs to be done to that engine than what you did. Seats need to be trued up and lapped in. A nice Neway kit can be had to service these small engines. How did the shop grind or cut the valve face and not see the wobble? Furthermore who would of cut a new exhaust seat and not catch the valve is not even close to seating when they lapped it in??
Yes the Neway CU102 with the 31° cutter would have cleaned up the bottom edge of the seat, and allowed the valve to lap more towards the center of the face. I have valve seat cutters, but unfortunately not the one I needed for this job, I placed an order though, but my Neway cutters are currently on backorder. As for the valve that wasn't true, I'm not sure how the shop missed that, but it was also my fault for not double checking. As for the exhaust seat being cut, I'm not exactly sure what happened, as my customer had it at another shop that closed down, and the machine was brought to me in this condition. The exhaust valve didn't even have carbon build up, so I'm assuming it hadn't run and someone had been in there messing about. At the end of the day, the valves sealed up, and the engine runs. Thanks for watching!
As Taryl would say ' it's not the space shuttle'. I bought a newway cutter years ago and haven't used it yet.
@@kenhilson786 Humm...I have multiple sets and use them quite often. True it’s not the space shuttle but rods, rings, and valves need attention to specs.
So I tested a theory I had. I'm guessing the machine shop put the valve in their chuck near the head. Because the warp is in the stem further down, they wouldn't have noticed a wobble. To test this, I reinstalled the valve deeper into my drill chuck and the wobble went away. Further out and it wobbles as shown in the video. I'm guessing that's what happened.
@@EliminatorPerformance so we’re you just chucking the tip of the valve? I would of thought the machine shop would of checked stem straightness. Make sure you don’t have a bur on the keeper groove. That could be throwing off your first drill test.
I can cut stems by only one thousand at a time on my valve machine or any amount I set it at
You need a machine to
Yea I may purchase one, we don't get much valve jobs but it would be nice to have!
Thing about it is you can use it 20 years and still sale it for more than you paid for it
Off shore valves aren't lasting long. You are better with a used one.