Pleasant experimentations! If you like to build a small engine dyno, it seems a good idea to me too. Here's a couple more things to consider: The octane number of propane is high enough (110 RON) for it not to spontaneously combust in your small diesel engine. I estimate its compression ratio between 1 to 19 and 22. You can test or showcase this by pushing the stop lever of the injector pump whilst feeding propane to the intake. Same can be done for other high enough octane fuels that are added to the intake air. As mentioned already in a lot of comments: the knock is caused by a changed timing of the combustion process. Once the diesel fuel is injected, it first has to evaporate and mix with air, then heat up to its ignition temperature, after which it finally ignites. The time this takes is called ignition delay. The ignition delay gets shorter with an easy combustable fuel mixed in, because it ignites as soon as the first molecule of diesel fuel comes to self-ignition. This can be compensated for by retarding the injection timing a tad, indeed by shimming up the pump. The exhaust having a taste of propane is caused by the valve overlap which alows intake air to pass through to the exhaust port. Diesel engines have more valve overlap to allow for cooling the exhaust valves and this is fine since they (normally) don't have fuel mixed into their intake air. The proper way of fuelling diesel engines with propane or natural gas is done by through electronic injection into the intake port, timed right after the exhaust valve has closed. The pilot injection of diesel fuel for igniting the gas is most times replaced by electronic ignition with spark plugs fitted where diesel injectors were. E.g. Caterpillar sells diesel engines converted like this for use in CHP-plants.
@@robotcantina8957 Can you put the vaporizers in a gasoline tank and see if you kan run a small gas engine on just the vapor, or would that just go bang ..?
I'd like to see your semi serious attempt at building a dyno. Engine shenanigan's are very funny but I do love some hard numbers to put things in perspective.
(volts X amps) ÷ 735 = horsepower Obviously there's some efficiency loss, but watts and horsepower are interchangeable units and you can compare between tests. Also, you can convert to torque with a little more math since you know the RPM (2500).
@@PsRohrbaugh Yes I know but that's only a single point on the curve. And with the governor there is a lot less option to test without a more sophisticated dyno. But that's me, and I don't think a professional (or equivalent quality) dyno is the best use of ressources for videos. After all I came for the show and Il like it's fun/methodical balance.
A channel called "2strokestuffing" made his own to run small displacement motorcycles on. It's a pretty neat setup. He's moved on to an engine dyno. It's not as cool looking but I think it's probably more accurate. Seeing Jimbo build one would be phenomenally interesting
That's not arbitrary... You twist wires that carry important information to prevent interference from other wires. It's recommended for any obd2 based tuning and highly recommend for speaker wires.
Thank you sooo much I'm sure I"m not the only one but I did definitely did ask for this lol :) tons of smiles lol. Specially that this was on a small engine.
These are interesting tests that brought back memories for me, In the final year of my mechanical engineering degree in 1979 I carried out similar tests supplementing diesel fuel with methanol on a speed-governed engine. I used a 2-cylinder 1950s air-cooled Petter which produced around 10 kW and the methanol was introduced via a carburettor. I had a dedicated engine lab with a hydraulic dynamometer and instrumentation. The short story is that at maximum about half the heat energy could be derived from the methanol but the engine of course knocked like crazy. In the end the engine seized with the pistons and bores damaged. 45 years on and being retired I realise just how pointless it was to rely on ignition from the diesel component as the methanol cooled it down too much. It would have been better to use a spark plug and mix the methanol and air in the correct ratios, turn off the diesel and simply take advantage of the high compression ratio.
Jimbo, I hope you have that dyno you created for the Miata engine still! I may be naive but I think you could adapt it to other engines easier than just building a new one for small engines. The build of that old dyno would have been an amazing series, you sir are ahead of your time!
The vape injection isn't really improving fuel economy, it's just reducing the amount of _diesel_ you are burning. Ethanol/methanol is also fuel with energy content, so you are offsetting some of the diesel consumption by consuming alcohol.
@@ChrisDay-sx4lv The denatured alcohol is fuel. It's using some of that in addition to the diesel. So yes, less diesel is burning but the extra energy is coming from the alcohol, so it's not more efficient unless you can quantify the energy per volume in the alcohol and it's rate of consumption.
The phase change of the water/alcohol mix cools the intake air. This was stuff NACA figured out in the 20s and 30s. In gasoline engines Methanol followed by ethanol was best in a 50/50 water alcohol mix. In gasoline engines it also reduced knock but that's not as big a problem with diesel.
These experiments remind me of the stuff our Special Projects department, guru, used to do back in the day, R.I.P. Dix Erickson. So, it's your money and time, I'll be watching which ever way you decide to go.
What a fun series of experiments. Back in the 62's Oldsmobile sold the first mass produced turbo and they had "Rocket Fluid" that would inject water meth mix to cool the charge. Also + 1 on the dyno stand.
Might also wanna lower the bucket a little to give the intake tube a slight angle to drain any liquids that might get into that transfer tube when using the ultrasonic atomizers. I'm loving these videos this is amazing.
For me? As a gear head/ inventor. This is the most interesting channel on TH-cam Project Farm and Key farm are fantastic as well, the attention to detail is second to none. Suggestion, try alternatave fuels. Lantern oil Vegetable oils Filtered used motor oil mixed with 20% gasoline aka black diesel
When I was in high school 'Auto Shop' class, we had a small engine dyno that was very simple. A clear tube was mounted vertical on the side of a drum that holds water. The test engine turns a water pump that pushes water up from the bottom of the clear tube to compress air trapped at the top. A ping-pong ball floats in the tube to make it easy to see the water level from a distance for those standing at the back of the crowd. The more pressure there is the higher the ball floats.
Everything you do fascinates me - Disclaimer - I am an engineer. Pity we live on opposite sides of the globe - I really need someone to help me work out how to adapt fuel injection on to a 3 cylinder 2 stroke motorcycle engine. There are some inherent difficulties with this and my electronics and computer skills are not up to the task. Love your work - Graeme !!
One of the things I do with my panel meters is put a piece of window tint under the screen. This accentuates the LEDs that are lit and hides the ones that are not, making it easier to read in daylight.
Dynos are fun! My brother was a diesel mechanic for John Deere for many years and he bought a pto dyno to test tractors. It’s a self contained unit on wheels with a hitch so you can pull it around, water absorber, and I think it’ll do up to around 350 horsepower if I remember correctly, but it’ll get right down to small tractor ranges of 15-30 horse as well. He brings it to local events where people bring their tractors and it’s fun to guess what they’ll make and hear them really grunt as you’re putting on a load! Great vid as always Jimbo, very interesting results with the vapor tests 👍
I’m not sure why I have been watching this channel for the past year, but some of the stuff you do is entertaining and educational. I am another check mark for the dyno.
These videos are fun to watch. Maybe repeat these same experiments in the winter when the shop is very cold to see what kind of difference ambient air temperature makes. Probably a lot of work but could be interesting. And yes to the dyno.
Hey Jimbo, perhaps something you could try and adapt to suit your needs is a knock sensor hooked into an Arduino for processing to help quantity how much knock is happening. Not sure how or if they'd work but it might! As always keep up the great work!
Love the channel, I'm a regular viewer. On the small engine dyno, I would say no, I do like dynos, but there are only so many hours in the day and I think that time spent on the car projects deliver more entertainment per hour of effort, and will appeal to a broader audience. Just my 2c.
Try running the engine on dimethyl ether, it should make the engine work much cleaner and better because of insanely high cetane number. I never saw this done on TH-cam, so that would be some unique content.
For fuelling experiments, try diesel with 2-stroke oil added 100~200:1 diesel to 2T It's oft cited by drivers of older diesels to quieten the engine and reduce smoke, plus the detergents help to keep things clean. Since the sulphur content of diesel has dropped ( certainly in the UK ), 2T *may* help with lubricity in older pumps and injectors that relied on the sulphur content to keep things unsticky.
2t oil will clog the injectors with zink. Plus, tests had shown that adding 2t oil to diesel dont actually reduce friction but in some tests increase friction. You would need other compounds like esthers to actually make a difference in fuel performance.
@@ПётрСемерич Zinc may clog fine-nozzle piezo injectors, but older stuff like this *may* stay perfectly clean. The pressures in a common rail system compared to the metering pump on this engine are so much higher, its needs will be different. Simple stuff like this, and older cars/vans with mechanical pumps and sprung injectors seems to be where the owners praise 2T. Areas such as ring lands, ring/bore face and the bore may or may not benefit. The ZDDP in the base oil should keep that sweet anyway. An ashless oil would keep any DPF sweet and minimise any potential for increased particulate matter. There's no direct analogue to the crank and gudgeon pin lube requirements of a 2T engine. Again, crank oil and the oil control ring should deal with that. Still may be interesting though, especially if a borescope is used to image the piston crown before and after plus perhaps a dB meter to get an idea of any audible reduction in knock volume levels. There's already crank temp and exhaust temp monitoring being done.
A small dose of vegetable oil should aid fuel lubrication. Methyl ester is better but a major hassle to make and it’s included in British/EU BSEN590 fuel.
Agreed! I think many people don't give this enough credit. You see lots of people making crazy things and showing numbers, but without a control, and without varying each factor, it's impossible to say just how much those changes are responsible for. Science isn't so much about finding ways to improve things as it is understanding how they work. Once you know how it works, then the engineers can use that knowledge to design a better solution.
I run water methanol injection on my 3500 for towing. W/M serves a few purposes; it cools the intake charge, making the air denser and thus more patent potential. Methanol acts as a catalyst to diesel allowing a more complete burn, as well as acting as an additional fuel. When water absorbs combustion hear and rapidly goes from liquid to gas, it expands and safely increases cylinder pressure (a little) while lowering EGTs. It also steam cleans the injector tip, the exhaust and intake valves, and your dpf and EGR if so equipped. The method works best for charged engines, which I believe is why this experiment didn't pan out as well. I've seen a solid 9-12 percent in economy and a little more noticeable power when my system is on for towing. Great video though! I love your channel and I'm here for it 💯
Robot Cantina: Hey Amazon, this Diesel engine you sent me doesn't run right, need a refund... Amazon: Why is there water coming out of it and it smells like Alcohol haha
@@randyab9go188 Yeah.. not sure about refund policy but I think someone once told me if you do it within 30 days they will refund it but the sooner the better.. I wouldn't trust warranties on those amazon motors, etc.
The reduced diesel consumption is only a result of the governor keeping the RPM as close to 2500 as possible. When you add the methanol/alcohol vapor, you're introducing a secondary fuel source (ditto with the propane). So it reduces the diesel flow as much as possible and then shows less diesel consumption. It's probably using a similar amount of total fuel if you measured the decrease in weight of the bucket. Anyway, I think it might be more interesting to defeat the governor and manually set the RPM similar to the fuel rack in the Kubota (pre modification). Then measure the increase in RPM/power when the different vapors are introduced. That seems more real world applicable.
You're doing the experiments we all wish we could do. Useful and done in a controlled way to minimize extraneous variables. Thank you brother. Very useful.
I hear gas has thermal expansion of about 50,. Waters thermal expansion is about 200. Once engine gets hot introduce h2 0 mist at the intake it will expand better then fuel when flashed to steam. Thanks for the excellent content!!!!
Yet another well done thought experiment. What would happen to this poor little engine if I just… For the 16% fuel economy, I think you might have overlooked is that the denatured alcohol is also a fuel (same with propane). IMO you traded the diesel for denatured alcohol. The governor cut back on the diesel (what it can control) because the engine was uncontrollably vaping the eth/meth/H2O mixture. If you put a small digital scale under the meth bucket and read the before and after mass, you could roughly measure the amount of vapor mixture it consumed. I would think a dyno would be an interesting build. Your alternator is kind of an eddy current dyno. It would be interesting to know the impacts of the different fuels on brake HP output. I supose a friction brake dyno would work here since we are talking about less than 10hp, if you wanted to dyno you kubota you would need something a bit bigger. The trick is finding something that can absorb the watts of power being generated and dissipate it properly without spending at lot of $$
That home-built dyno is amazing! Nice work!😉 I've seen several comments referring to the decrease in the amount of diesel being used as being replaced by the methanol. That's actually only partially true. I did similar experiments with a hydroxy setup on a '71 VW Bug years ago, and even though I was only injecting about 1.5 LPM of hydroxy at medium throttle, my fuel mileage went from about 31 mpg. to 35-37 mpg. on average (I duplicated these results several times over, so it wasn't just a fluke). What is happening with the diesel, is the methanol/water mix is actually enhancing the combustion properties (i.e. acting as a catalyst) to make it burn more completely. In theory, when you do this, you should probably also increase the timing, as it is slowing the burn rate (at least that was my experience with my Bug). I could advance the base timing as much as 10 degrees, with no knocking, and significantly better performance and fuel mileage.
Another great video. We saw positive results by manipulating the exhaust into two separate channels, one straight out, the other one swirling around a long small channel which drastically increases exhaust speed, then dumping it back into the main channel. The increased speed worked like a vacuum pulling the exhaust out of the engine.
Small scale dyno capable of constant load!! And testing the various gases while being able to measure the rate of consumption of them and the fuel. Much of the diesel consumption reduction you saw was the diesel being REPLACED by the other fuels, it would be nice to know just how much of the alternative fuels were being consumed by metering them in at controllable rates, and how much of the power/efficiency gain was due to improved combustion dynamics. Also, a lot of that knock was probably due to there being TOO MUCH fuel in the cylinder before the diesel was injected and ignited, causing detonation, and some of that knock was due to the onset of ignition being advanced. It takes a (short) bit of time of diesel being injected before it ignites, having other much faster burning fuel in the air mix will actually speed up the diesel ignition, effectively advancing your timing. Conversely, the WATER in the air likely was retarding ignition slightly. It's hard to pin down when you dont know how much of each are being admitted.
Nice video. For the fuel tests, back in the 80s I remember a guy twisting the fuelrail around the exhaust to superheat the fuel to maximise the atomization and it seemed to make a huge difference.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the knocking, its not detonation like in a gasoline engine, what’s happening is the ignition timing is being advanced from a fuel source being introduced via the intake, before the injection event, which gets ignited as soon as the injector fires, this can be reduced by retarding the injector timing (adding a .010 shim on the pump) you can actually run a diesel completely off of propane using diesel as the ignition source, basically the diesel is just stuck on low idle, known as pilot injection, and the propane is introduced for normal operation
Yes, build that dynamometer, but build it large enough to be able to use on a 500 - 800 Nm + diesel engine, then you don't have to build a new one later. If the hydraulic pump becomes to large to be driven by your smaller engines, then have 2 pumps or more and just swap out the pump in the dyno stand :D
that test bench is so shaken, one day it will just self disassemble 😂 All the experiments are fun and educational. Some Fordson Diesels in the 40s in England had a throttle plate governor system that i have not made time to figure out, throttle body meets injector pump? Perhaps another experiment in demonstrating how that might work on this micro block diesel :)
You missed the opportunity for the most interesting test, fuel efficiency with water vapour only. If you think the water vapour tests are interesting, you should also try playing with a GEET. I have both combined on a test GX160 to experiment with different fuel and water mixtures, you can run an engine on dirty and contaminated fuel without issues, I use propane to supplement the engine exactly as you were here. It will absolutely work on a bigger engines, i have seen a lorry with a box of foggers just like yours but many more feeding into the air intake of the large commercial engine, it had floats to refill and apparently worked very well to improve milleage.
with the windshield washer fluid in the bucket, he was doing basically water/methanol injection on that engine [granted it was uncontrolled, relatively speaking]
Really appreciate your channel experimenting with these engines. Ive been building quite a few projects using these engines and i am really appreciating the work your doing to test them out.
Its interesting that although you are an IT guy. You have quite advanced sense of engineering and mechanical aptitude. In my experience. Folks are strong in one or the other as the two disciplines typically dont overlap much. Excellent!
+1 for the Miata. Once upon a time, after finding out NA Miata's had a close ratio transmission option for racing, We had a late night engineering bar session about building a diesel NA Miata for fuel economy. Of course, after the beer ran out and common sense kicked in, we decided our wives/girlfriends would probably take away our shop privileges for abusing small cute cars. Maybe someday, though.
I always experienced a 10 to 15% fuel economy increase when putting steam vapor into gasoline engines, so its nice to see similar on the diesel. I would like to see if you could do the fuel test with the bug juice. a large HHO cell would be interesting too, I happen to have a couple somewhere if you were interested, I could loan it for the test.
I would love to do a HHO experiment on this engine. Perhaps I could borrow a working HHO system? If so, I can be contacted directly through my channel home page, click on "about " and you will see my contact email. this only works on computers and not on mobile phones.
Jimbo, that's a really impressive feat and I would LOVE to see a proper small engine dyno, but it would be quite a bit of work to pull off, I'm sure. If you are willing to do it, I'd be willing to join your Patreon to help you make it happen. I'm sure others would as well. Let us know if you would want to and I'll be the first to sign up!
Jimbo - dynos are AWESOME! And Robot Cantina fans can enjoy weekly fun without you even leaving the workshop, great for those miserable Kansas winters.
+1 for the small engine dyno!
+1
YES
fr
+1
And my axe! 🪓
Pleasant experimentations! If you like to build a small engine dyno, it seems a good idea to me too. Here's a couple more things to consider:
The octane number of propane is high enough (110 RON) for it not to spontaneously combust in your small diesel engine. I estimate its compression ratio between 1 to 19 and 22. You can test or showcase this by pushing the stop lever of the injector pump whilst feeding propane to the intake. Same can be done for other high enough octane fuels that are added to the intake air.
As mentioned already in a lot of comments: the knock is caused by a changed timing of the combustion process. Once the diesel fuel is injected, it first has to evaporate and mix with air, then heat up to its ignition temperature, after which it finally ignites. The time this takes is called ignition delay. The ignition delay gets shorter with an easy combustable fuel mixed in, because it ignites as soon as the first molecule of diesel fuel comes to self-ignition. This can be compensated for by retarding the injection timing a tad, indeed by shimming up the pump.
The exhaust having a taste of propane is caused by the valve overlap which alows intake air to pass through to the exhaust port. Diesel engines have more valve overlap to allow for cooling the exhaust valves and this is fine since they (normally) don't have fuel mixed into their intake air.
The proper way of fuelling diesel engines with propane or natural gas is done by through electronic injection into the intake port, timed right after the exhaust valve has closed. The pilot injection of diesel fuel for igniting the gas is most times replaced by electronic ignition with spark plugs fitted where diesel injectors were. E.g. Caterpillar sells diesel engines converted like this for use in CHP-plants.
Building a high-tech small-scale dyno seems like a GREAT idea!
Having an accurate "lie detector" on hand is a great way to debunk gearhead myths...
Yes, "The lie detector" is what it will be for sure.
It would be fun to see a "panthone reactor" (wich mixes fuel and water vapor on this channel with a dyno comparison !!
@@robotcantina8957 Can you put the vaporizers in a gasoline tank and see if you kan run a small gas engine on just the vapor, or would that just go bang ..?
I'd like to see your semi serious attempt at building a dyno. Engine shenanigan's are very funny but I do love some hard numbers to put things in perspective.
I would be interesting to do these experiments on the spare Kobota engine!
He has that video already if you look though his videos. It's back with the cement mixer engine
(volts X amps) ÷ 735 = horsepower
Obviously there's some efficiency loss, but watts and horsepower are interchangeable units and you can compare between tests.
Also, you can convert to torque with a little more math since you know the RPM (2500).
@@PsRohrbaugh Yes I know but that's only a single point on the curve.
And with the governor there is a lot less option to test without a more sophisticated dyno.
But that's me, and I don't think a professional (or equivalent quality) dyno is the best use of ressources for videos.
After all I came for the show and Il like it's fun/methodical balance.
A channel called "2strokestuffing" made his own to run small displacement motorcycles on. It's a pretty neat setup. He's moved on to an engine dyno. It's not as cool looking but I think it's probably more accurate. Seeing Jimbo build one would be phenomenally interesting
You can tell Jimbo is skilled by how well he performs arbitrary tasks. For example, look how beautifully the yellow and black wire is twisted... 😮
Thanks!
It was the rubber grommets in the bucket for the ultrasonic transducers for me, I have a hard time remembering to do that on my car 😂
@@Hippie9D haha. That sounds about right
That's not arbitrary... You twist wires that carry important information to prevent interference from other wires. It's recommended for any obd2 based tuning and highly recommend for speaker wires.
@@robotcantina8957I may have mentioned this already but you can shut it down with the he decompressor. Saves you pushing on the governor.
25:53 I love this little bit of side lore! It's a kind of thing that I'd do too if I somehow had the time and resources
Really, I think this is one of your best videos ever. Yeah Science! =D
As someone who sold the stuff, the regular washer fluid has very little alcohol in it. The winter bug juice is that 50/50 blend
good to know! Thanks!
Stay safe and hydrated, Jimbo! 💪🏻
Within reason the knocking and lower EGT indicates methanol puts more energy into the piston. Less wasted down the exhaust.
Thank you sooo much I'm sure I"m not the only one but I did definitely did ask for this lol :) tons of smiles lol. Specially that this was on a small engine.
Absolutely love to see you build a small engine Dino. I would appreciate something like that thanks buddy.
These are interesting tests that brought back memories for me, In the final year of my mechanical engineering degree in 1979 I carried out similar tests supplementing diesel fuel with methanol on a speed-governed engine. I used a 2-cylinder 1950s air-cooled Petter which produced around 10 kW and the methanol was introduced via a carburettor. I had a dedicated engine lab with a hydraulic dynamometer and instrumentation. The short story is that at maximum about half the heat energy could be derived from the methanol but the engine of course knocked like crazy. In the end the engine seized with the pistons and bores damaged. 45 years on and being retired I realise just how pointless it was to rely on ignition from the diesel component as the methanol cooled it down too much. It would have been better to use a spark plug and mix the methanol and air in the correct ratios, turn off the diesel and simply take advantage of the high compression ratio.
I would absolutely love a Dyno build!....and testing as well obviously!
Jimbo, I hope you have that dyno you created for the Miata engine still!
I may be naive but I think you could adapt it to other engines easier than just building a new one for small engines.
The build of that old dyno would have been an amazing series, you sir are ahead of your time!
The vape injection isn't really improving fuel economy, it's just reducing the amount of _diesel_ you are burning. Ethanol/methanol is also fuel with energy content, so you are offsetting some of the diesel consumption by consuming alcohol.
Your not improving fuel economy? your reducing the amount of diesel while maintaining load that sure sounds a lot like improved efficiency to me.
@@ChrisDay-sx4lv The denatured alcohol is fuel. It's using some of that in addition to the diesel. So yes, less diesel is burning but the extra energy is coming from the alcohol, so it's not more efficient unless you can quantify the energy per volume in the alcohol and it's rate of consumption.
They both said exactly what I was thinking. I'm just commenting for the algorithm.
The phase change of the water/alcohol mix cools the intake air. This was stuff NACA figured out in the 20s and 30s.
In gasoline engines Methanol followed by ethanol was best in a 50/50 water alcohol mix. In gasoline engines it also reduced knock but that's not as big a problem with diesel.
Indeed. I reckon the next thing to try in the bucket, would be diesel.
Please Jimbo fulfill our life with a beautiful dyno ❤
Anything you are willing to put time, effort, and money into producing, I will voraciously consume with great pleasure
Yes, a small engine dyno would be awesome !
These experiments remind me of the stuff our Special Projects department, guru, used to do back in the day, R.I.P. Dix Erickson.
So, it's your money and time, I'll be watching which ever way you decide to go.
What a fun series of experiments. Back in the 62's Oldsmobile sold the first mass produced turbo and they had "Rocket Fluid" that would inject water meth mix to cool the charge. Also + 1 on the dyno stand.
Same tech was used in WW2 fighter planes to boost peak power during. dog fighting.
I love this homebrewed citizen science kind of testing and experimentation. More please!
One of my favorite channels!
If you build it, we will watch, thumbs up and comment.
Might also wanna lower the bucket a little to give the intake tube a slight angle to drain any liquids that might get into that transfer tube when using the ultrasonic atomizers. I'm loving these videos this is amazing.
Dude that dyno rig you built was awesome
Thanks, it was the single most complicated thing I ever built. The software to make it work was a real challenge.
One of you wealthy viewers out there send this man a large split AC unit for his shop please.
Jimbo YES please build the dyno. You have my 1Million votes.
For me? As a gear head/ inventor. This is the most interesting channel on TH-cam Project Farm and Key farm are fantastic as well, the attention to detail is second to none.
Suggestion, try alternatave fuels.
Lantern oil
Vegetable oils
Filtered used motor oil mixed with 20% gasoline aka black diesel
When I was in high school 'Auto Shop' class, we had a small engine dyno that was very simple. A clear tube was mounted vertical on the side of a drum that holds water. The test engine turns a water pump that pushes water up from the bottom of the clear tube to compress air trapped at the top. A ping-pong ball floats in the tube to make it easy to see the water level from a distance for those standing at the back of the crowd. The more pressure there is the higher the ball floats.
Everything you do fascinates me - Disclaimer - I am an engineer. Pity we live on opposite sides of the globe - I really need someone to help me work out how to adapt fuel injection on to a 3 cylinder 2 stroke motorcycle engine. There are some inherent difficulties with this and my electronics and computer skills are not up to the task. Love your work - Graeme !!
One of the things I do with my panel meters is put a piece of window tint under the screen. This accentuates the LEDs that are lit and hides the ones that are not, making it easier to read in daylight.
Dynos are fun! My brother was a diesel mechanic for John Deere for many years and he bought a pto dyno to test tractors. It’s a self contained unit on wheels with a hitch so you can pull it around, water absorber, and I think it’ll do up to around 350 horsepower if I remember correctly, but it’ll get right down to small tractor ranges of 15-30 horse as well. He brings it to local events where people bring their tractors and it’s fun to guess what they’ll make and hear them really grunt as you’re putting on a load! Great vid as always Jimbo, very interesting results with the vapor tests 👍
I’m not sure why I have been watching this channel for the past year, but some of the stuff you do is entertaining and educational. I am another check mark for the dyno.
Great work, love to see more.
These videos are fun to watch. Maybe repeat these same experiments in the winter when the shop is very cold to see what kind of difference ambient air temperature makes. Probably a lot of work but could be interesting. And yes to the dyno.
Hey Jimbo, perhaps something you could try and adapt to suit your needs is a knock sensor hooked into an Arduino for processing to help quantity how much knock is happening. Not sure how or if they'd work but it might!
As always keep up the great work!
Thanks! Glad the marsupials are steering clear!
Love the channel, I'm a regular viewer. On the small engine dyno, I would say no, I do like dynos, but there are only so many hours in the day and I think that time spent on the car projects deliver more entertainment per hour of effort, and will appeal to a broader audience. Just my 2c.
Very keen to see a small engine Dyno. I love watching this channel and learn a lot from it.
Try running the engine on dimethyl ether, it should make the engine work much cleaner and better because of insanely high cetane number. I never saw this done on TH-cam, so that would be some unique content.
For fuelling experiments, try diesel with 2-stroke oil added 100~200:1 diesel to 2T
It's oft cited by drivers of older diesels to quieten the engine and reduce smoke, plus the detergents help to keep things clean. Since the sulphur content of diesel has dropped ( certainly in the UK ), 2T *may* help with lubricity in older pumps and injectors that relied on the sulphur content to keep things unsticky.
2t oil will clog the injectors with zink. Plus, tests had shown that adding 2t oil to diesel dont actually reduce friction but in some tests increase friction. You would need other compounds like esthers to actually make a difference in fuel performance.
@@ПётрСемерич Motul 710 is Esther based 2T oil 😊
@@ПётрСемерич Higher quality 2 stroke oils such as Redline do contain esters.
@@ПётрСемерич Zinc may clog fine-nozzle piezo injectors, but older stuff like this *may* stay perfectly clean. The pressures in a common rail system compared to the metering pump on this engine are so much higher, its needs will be different. Simple stuff like this, and older cars/vans with mechanical pumps and sprung injectors seems to be where the owners praise 2T.
Areas such as ring lands, ring/bore face and the bore may or may not benefit. The ZDDP in the base oil should keep that sweet anyway.
An ashless oil would keep any DPF sweet and minimise any potential for increased particulate matter.
There's no direct analogue to the crank and gudgeon pin lube requirements of a 2T engine. Again, crank oil and the oil control ring should deal with that.
Still may be interesting though, especially if a borescope is used to image the piston crown before and after plus perhaps a dB meter to get an idea of any audible reduction in knock volume levels. There's already crank temp and exhaust temp monitoring being done.
A small dose of vegetable oil should aid fuel lubrication. Methyl ester is better but a major hassle to make and it’s included in British/EU BSEN590 fuel.
I love the use of controls in your experiments. You may just be a guy messing around in the garage, but you sure act like a real scientist!
Agreed! I think many people don't give this enough credit. You see lots of people making crazy things and showing numbers, but without a control, and without varying each factor, it's impossible to say just how much those changes are responsible for. Science isn't so much about finding ways to improve things as it is understanding how they work. Once you know how it works, then the engineers can use that knowledge to design a better solution.
Thanks!
I prefer to watch guy jump between projects each week rather than watch the same project for weeks on end. This is cool
IMO, the small engine dyno would be a cool addition to the channel.
I run water methanol injection on my 3500 for towing. W/M serves a few purposes; it cools the intake charge, making the air denser and thus more patent potential. Methanol acts as a catalyst to diesel allowing a more complete burn, as well as acting as an additional fuel. When water absorbs combustion hear and rapidly goes from liquid to gas, it expands and safely increases cylinder pressure (a little) while lowering EGTs. It also steam cleans the injector tip, the exhaust and intake valves, and your dpf and EGR if so equipped. The method works best for charged engines, which I believe is why this experiment didn't pan out as well. I've seen a solid 9-12 percent in economy and a little more noticeable power when my system is on for towing. Great video though! I love your channel and I'm here for it 💯
Robot Cantina: Hey Amazon, this Diesel engine you sent me doesn't run right, need a refund...
Amazon: Why is there water coming out of it and it smells like Alcohol
haha
LOL, Indeed at some point I'll be calling customer service with a complaint.
@@randyab9go188 Yeah.. not sure about refund policy but I think someone once told me if you do it within 30 days they will refund it but the sooner the better.. I wouldn't trust warranties on those amazon motors, etc.
Cause it refuses to admit it has a problem and won't go to meetings. ;)
@@robotcantina8957 haha
Hell yeah for the smoll Dyno!
Ok Jimbo, finally a small engine dyno!
I look forward to seeing future videos of engine dyno testing and development.
The reduced diesel consumption is only a result of the governor keeping the RPM as close to 2500 as possible. When you add the methanol/alcohol vapor, you're introducing a secondary fuel source (ditto with the propane). So it reduces the diesel flow as much as possible and then shows less diesel consumption. It's probably using a similar amount of total fuel if you measured the decrease in weight of the bucket.
Anyway, I think it might be more interesting to defeat the governor and manually set the RPM similar to the fuel rack in the Kubota (pre modification). Then measure the increase in RPM/power when the different vapors are introduced. That seems more real world applicable.
You're doing the experiments we all wish we could do. Useful and done in a controlled way to minimize extraneous variables. Thank you brother. Very useful.
A small engine dyno would be a fun arc for the channel.
Coffee ☕️ tastes better today with my favorite Sunday Morning Show!
I hear gas has thermal expansion of about 50,. Waters thermal expansion is about 200. Once engine gets hot introduce h2 0 mist at the intake it will expand better then fuel when flashed to steam. Thanks for the excellent content!!!!
Small diesel experiments. With bonus mini dyno. And bonus full sized dyno. And bonus 45 mpg Miata!
Yet another well done thought experiment. What would happen to this poor little engine if I just…
For the 16% fuel economy, I think you might have overlooked is that the denatured alcohol is also a fuel (same with propane). IMO you traded the diesel for denatured alcohol. The governor cut back on the diesel (what it can control) because the engine was uncontrollably vaping the eth/meth/H2O mixture. If you put a small digital scale under the meth bucket and read the before and after mass, you could roughly measure the amount of vapor mixture it consumed.
I would think a dyno would be an interesting build. Your alternator is kind of an eddy current dyno. It would be interesting to know the impacts of the different fuels on brake HP output. I supose a friction brake dyno would work here since we are talking about less than 10hp, if you wanted to dyno you kubota you would need something a bit bigger. The trick is finding something that can absorb the watts of power being generated and dissipate it properly without spending at lot of $$
I realize I'm trading one fuel for another on this experiment. The interesting part is if I can do it with a cheaper fuel source.
Starting to sound like a song...
Methanol, water mix, propane powered, diesel eater!
(To the tune of The Purple People Eater.)
Very interesting results. Thanks Jimbo!
That home-built dyno is amazing! Nice work!😉 I've seen several comments referring to the decrease in the amount of diesel being used as being replaced by the methanol. That's actually only partially true. I did similar experiments with a hydroxy setup on a '71 VW Bug years ago, and even though I was only injecting about 1.5 LPM of hydroxy at medium throttle, my fuel mileage went from about 31 mpg. to 35-37 mpg. on average (I duplicated these results several times over, so it wasn't just a fluke). What is happening with the diesel, is the methanol/water mix is actually enhancing the combustion properties (i.e. acting as a catalyst) to make it burn more completely. In theory, when you do this, you should probably also increase the timing, as it is slowing the burn rate (at least that was my experience with my Bug). I could advance the base timing as much as 10 degrees, with no knocking, and significantly better performance and fuel mileage.
Another great video. We saw positive results by manipulating the exhaust into two separate channels, one straight out, the other one swirling around a long small channel which drastically increases exhaust speed, then dumping it back into the main channel. The increased speed worked like a vacuum pulling the exhaust out of the engine.
Absolutely yes on the bigger Dino! Would love to see a build series on it!
Small scale dyno capable of constant load!! And testing the various gases while being able to measure the rate of consumption of them and the fuel. Much of the diesel consumption reduction you saw was the diesel being REPLACED by the other fuels, it would be nice to know just how much of the alternative fuels were being consumed by metering them in at controllable rates, and how much of the power/efficiency gain was due to improved combustion dynamics.
Also, a lot of that knock was probably due to there being TOO MUCH fuel in the cylinder before the diesel was injected and ignited, causing detonation, and some of that knock was due to the onset of ignition being advanced. It takes a (short) bit of time of diesel being injected before it ignites, having other much faster burning fuel in the air mix will actually speed up the diesel ignition, effectively advancing your timing. Conversely, the WATER in the air likely was retarding ignition slightly. It's hard to pin down when you dont know how much of each are being admitted.
Nice video. For the fuel tests, back in the 80s I remember a guy twisting the fuelrail around the exhaust to superheat the fuel to maximise the atomization and it seemed to make a huge difference.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the knocking, its not detonation like in a gasoline engine, what’s happening is the ignition timing is being advanced from a fuel source being introduced via the intake, before the injection event, which gets ignited as soon as the injector fires, this can be reduced by retarding the injector timing (adding a .010 shim on the pump) you can actually run a diesel completely off of propane using diesel as the ignition source, basically the diesel is just stuck on low idle, known as pilot injection, and the propane is introduced for normal operation
Good point! I may try shimming the pump and see what happens.Thanks!
That laugh with "it likely wont last very long" got me at like 16:45.
Didnt see that coming 😂
Yes, build that dynamometer, but build it large enough to be able to use on a 500 - 800 Nm + diesel engine, then you don't have to build a new one later.
If the hydraulic pump becomes to large to be driven by your smaller engines, then have 2 pumps or more and just swap out the pump in the dyno stand :D
27:11 hell yah.
Count me in for a small scale Dyno! Sounds fascinating! Interesting results this week again!👌👍
Of course we like to see a custom Dino!
Yes of course I would love to watch you make a dyno
Another upvote for the small dyno!
Oh and when adding any of those alcohol mixes you can fix that knocking sound by retarding the injection timing slightly.
A turbo's exhaust side being spun backwards should do a perfect job for sucking the exhaust a little stronger than the shop vac.
Jimbo, you are a lot smarter than most,,, look at all the Cars and trucks you own!!!!!!
I *love* the little Miata dyno! Please make one, that sounds fun!!!
I'll second or third the little dyno. Real numbers comparison is so much better than this is better than that. THANKS for all you do!
“Can we have a clear prop”. Nice nod to jimmy world. A fun channel
that test bench is so shaken, one day it will just self disassemble 😂 All the experiments are fun and educational. Some Fordson Diesels in the 40s in England had a throttle plate governor system that i have not made time to figure out, throttle body meets injector pump? Perhaps another experiment in demonstrating how that might work on this micro block diesel :)
You missed the opportunity for the most interesting test, fuel efficiency with water vapour only. If you think the water vapour tests are interesting, you should also try playing with a GEET. I have both combined on a test GX160 to experiment with different fuel and water mixtures, you can run an engine on dirty and contaminated fuel without issues, I use propane to supplement the engine exactly as you were here. It will absolutely work on a bigger engines, i have seen a lorry with a box of foggers just like yours but many more feeding into the air intake of the large commercial engine, it had floats to refill and apparently worked very well to improve milleage.
The various fume tests you performed are the same as what I did for my final thesis in my engineering degree.
Totally in the YEA group for a dyno build. Truth be told id love to see even a strimmer on a dyno 🦖
Build it Jimbo. We want to see.
Appreciate all the work you put in your videos bud.
Just noticed one of the fans on the loadbank cooler died...thats a shame, thankfully you got 8 others to do the job!
Wow, I didn't think anybody would notice that. Yes we do have a bad fan, but its on a load that's not being used, so I reckon it will be fine
Suggestion: mix diesel with methanol, i heard somewhere tractor pulling competition use this combo
Great video as always!
Be good for the real tall grass too 😂
with the windshield washer fluid in the bucket, he was doing basically water/methanol injection on that engine [granted it was uncontrolled, relatively speaking]
Really appreciate your channel experimenting with these engines. Ive been building quite a few projects using these engines and i am really appreciating the work your doing to test them out.
Yes please, would be great to see how to build a small Dyno
Thanx for show non-freedom temperature units :D
-1 for small engine dyno! Back to Saturns. I owned a 1997 Saturn and I liked what you did with yours. Very interesting.
Its interesting that although you are an IT guy. You have quite advanced sense of engineering and mechanical aptitude. In my experience. Folks are strong in one or the other as the two disciplines typically dont overlap much. Excellent!
+1 for the Miata. Once upon a time, after finding out NA Miata's had a close ratio transmission option for racing, We had a late night engineering bar session about building a diesel NA Miata for fuel economy. Of course, after the beer ran out and common sense kicked in, we decided our wives/girlfriends would probably take away our shop privileges for abusing small cute cars. Maybe someday, though.
This is a lot of fun! Really enjoying these experiments!
Yes sir! You make this fun to watch and love your mix of electronics and cars...
Thanks , I always smile when I see a Robot Cantina vid.
Yes build a dyno it would be brilliant 🙏
I always experienced a 10 to 15% fuel economy increase when putting steam vapor into gasoline engines, so its nice to see similar on the diesel. I would like to see if you could do the fuel test with the bug juice. a large HHO cell would be interesting too, I happen to have a couple somewhere if you were interested, I could loan it for the test.
I would love to do a HHO experiment on this engine. Perhaps I could borrow a working HHO system? If so, I can be contacted directly through my channel home page, click on "about " and you will see my contact email. this only works on computers and not on mobile phones.
The dyno does seem like an interesting project. I can't wait to see what you do with the S10.
Yes to the dyno. Keep up the great vids. Thanks!
Thank you so much! I reckon a lot of folks want to see the dyno build. I'll make it happen.
Jimbo, that's a really impressive feat and I would LOVE to see a proper small engine dyno, but it would be quite a bit of work to pull off, I'm sure. If you are willing to do it, I'd be willing to join your Patreon to help you make it happen. I'm sure others would as well. Let us know if you would want to and I'll be the first to sign up!
Having a small engine dyno Will open up a bunch of ways for you to make way more content for your Viewers. I love your channel god bless!!
Build it and we will watch!
Jimbo - dynos are AWESOME! And Robot Cantina fans can enjoy weekly fun without you even leaving the workshop, great for those miserable Kansas winters.
We definitely need the dyno. That would be awesome.