What's deadlier, a .25 or .30 cal airgun?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Hi everyone! This video tests which airgun is actually deadlier...the 25 caliber or the 30 caliber. Below is the link to the written article that accompanies this video. I suggest taking them both in for the full story.
Link to the written article:
www.bakerairguns.com/general/... - กีฬา
Watch Part II of, "What's dealier, a .25 or .30 cal airgun" at this link...
th-cam.com/video/piomGOAFUiM/w-d-xo.html
A foreign fella SP Guns kind of sold me on the .25 before his channel went to pew tube heaven. Any tuned air rifle is going to have a modified pressure disc to make maximum power with fewer shots
EU regs limit air rifles to 9 fpe or 9.7gr 4.5mm @760 fps while PCPs have so much untapped potential
I've been waiting for you and Baker Airguns to make a return. Your content is always valuable to me, AND thoroughly well researched, documented and presented. Thank you. Subscribed, finally.
Thank you very much! Welcome to the channel.
-Donnie
Good experiment and sound science. The only thing I’ll point out though is that the test was performed uniformly at 20 yards. I believe that would favor the .25 caliber. We can leave aside the physics jargon,.. You’ve made all variables equal, except of course the properties of the pellets themselves. You would expect the pellet with the smaller profile cross section to experience less drag through the medium.
Now, how about when you start to widen the distance? I’ve seen anecdotal tests of a Hatsan Blitz hitting line boards, back and forth between a .25 and a .30 caliber. The 30 definitively carries more energy past the 75 yard threshold.
Was your decision to set the targets at 20 yards just arbitrary? Because I believe beyond a certain distance threshold you’ll actually see the results of the experiment flip between the two calibers.
Great video, Donny! So many variables are involved in determining "deadliness" that this subject will never be settled. It's the same as the firearm discussion about "knock-down" power. In the end, for me, a more important question is "What is the minimum" for a quarry?
Thank you very much! That's a good way to look at it.
-Donnie
I agree no pun intended but actual firearms might be “over kill”
Rather than the "minimum" and assuming the shot will be perfect, wouldn't it be better to use what has the surest effect? If your "minimum" device is slightly off target, there will be pointless suffering. You might be a sportsman,shooting for your entertainment, but you're no hunter.
@@RealTechZen: 100% agreed!.
Dude! We need to chat soon on this topic for big bore Airguns. I just dropped that Doe last weekend with the .50 cal Texan short carbine at around 500 FPE. At 50 yards the slug bedded on the backside of the hide. It was perfectly broadside so I was like WTF! I expected to blow right through that Doe.
At the same 500 FPE power level, I get .457 slugs penciling through deer almost every single time. So your test has a lot of application for big bore Airguns on larger game. With Deer they rarely just fold up and expire on the spot so having a full pass through on a double lung shot is preferable to create a fully open wound cavity for better blood trails not to mention a deer can survive on a single lung. Contrary to some of the comments on this post about a full energy dump being ideal. With deer, it is not.
Keep up the Airgun geekery brother!
Absolutely, man! Clearly this topic needs further investigation and explanation. I would love to talk with you about it.
-Donnie
Although I respect your opinion, I do disagree. The more energy transferred, the more damage done. That IS physics. But I Absolutely see what you're saying about faster bleed out with the passthrough. Shot placement is of course critical, but if slightly off center, I'd prefer damage to passthrough. You could hit em in the ass with a passthrough and have them run off, but with full energy dump, it may have had a broken leg or spine and not able to run off. But the military has done more research on this subject than Anyone on the planet. Might want to read some of their thoughts on the subject. (Spoiler, they believe in energy transfer).
@@scottmichael3745 Well first off you’re totally wrong in the fact the deer isn’t expiring from bleeding out of your shot selection was correct. Your shutting down the respiratory system not the circulatory system with a double lung shot.
What I’m saying is you get a better blood trail for tracking and NOT that the animal is expiring from loss of blood. Dispatching from blood loss can actually take a long time. I’ve tracked Deer for hundreds of yards with blood everywhere to have it all of a sudden just stop. Often from the single hole becoming clogged most likely from tissue. It happens and every seasoned hunter has experienced it.
The amount of energy we get with big bore Airguns is in the realm of handgun firearm cartridges not high energy projectiles like you mention the military doing studies on which I’m assuming you’re referencing studies done on 5.56 and 7.62 ammo. Those projectiles are producing energy in the magnitude of thousands of foot pounds of energy, not hundreds like we see with Airguns.
I’ve dispatched quite a few deer with big bore Airguns and will tell you it’s much more like archery, not firearms. Go watch handgun shootout footage on TH-cam with handguns. People aren’t getting blown off their feet when getting hit with 9mm or 45 ACP rounds. Sometimes if they are hopped up enough on adrenaline (or drugs), they just keep coming.
Shot placement is crucial but dumping 500 FPE into a 200 pound animal doesn’t do as much as you think it would. Go watch some of my videos where I dump 600 FPE hollow points into the chest of a large Doe and they just look around like what just but me. It’s different man. Trust me
So you trading that .50 cal in for a .257? Probably not because you want the biggest hole that passes through.
Ok, now that Does make sense to me! You can't breath, you can't run. Heart pumping or not.
Thanks for another great video Donnie. my humble opinion here is that when comparing two different calibers one should take in consideration weight and speed and all those factors contributing to get the max performance and devastation out of each caliber. in that case a bigger caliber with a proper expansion is a winner, for hunting purposes every day of the week 👍🔫🇸🇪
I have to tell you, i am new to the Air rifle world but I have to say, watched the whole thing. You sir, are a very charismatic individual. thank you for video and making my choice harder when buying my first air rifle.
I understand you logic, but you test show that the 30 caliber sheds energy quicker in the target. When hunting that equals quicker kills
Penetration is the foremost function of a projectile. When dealing with low energy airguns (compared to high energy firearms), penetration is often questionable. If it doesn't go in, or go in far enough, energy transfer is a moot point. Even the biggest, baddest airguns made are barely firearm handgun powerful. How do handguns kill? They poke holes so you bleed, even with modern hollowpoints. Airguns are no different, and less powerful.
-Donnie
@@BakerAirguns Penetration is not the foremost function. It's dumping all the energy into the animal and not just punching hole through. If you have, and can dump all the ft/lbs of energy into animal and not through it, you're ahead of the game. That's knock down power, that's lights out power. I have an .25 Edgun, two .30's and two 357's pellet/slug PCP's. Trust me, .25's don't hit and kill nearly as fast as the larger calibers. Thirty cals blow squirrels clean out of the tree. Thirty's kill groundhogs, .25's are sketchy without a perfect hit.
@@timtullio1210 Yeah man I just GOTTA agree with you. Really liked the video, but I believe his "physics" are incorrect. Energy dump is EVERYTHING! I killed LOTS of birds as a kid with a pump 177 and very rarely did it ever make a hole. Hollow points are designed Specifically to increase energy transfer. And if the projectile exits the target, well that's waisted energy...
@@timtullio1210 you've made a very good point but with respect, I feel like the point of this video was not about the question of; Is penetration more important than energy dump? I felt it was very much about introducing to less experienced air gun shooters, the basic first principals of ballistics as they pertain to Air Guns (especially PCP's). As a Break Barrel gunner, it helped me visualise a couple of really important scenarios:
1. The crossover of efficacy of the two bore sizes' projectile at the same FPE at the muzzle for both penetration and terminal energy. EG - If I have less penetration, my effective range is reduced, which could affect target selection (size, type and POA/POI). Or, what's my DOPE going to be? How would that affect my working range, firing positions or both? Donnie's theory and explanations of the variables would help almost any lay person to answer those questions themselves - whether that be to choose a new platform or, make adjustments in the field quickly with whichever platform they're using. Which is fantastic.
2. If I was considering a new platform, do I need .30 cal, or would .25 Cal suit my needs better?
And from that perspective, I felt Donnie's testing methodology and explanations spoke to both of those scenarios really well as a layperson to PCP world.
The other great outcome of Donnie explaining things the way he has, is that less experienced PCP gunners can apply all of this to their own decision making in the field. The more folks that have a good understanding of Ballistics as a subject, the less likely it is they'll make unfortunate choices, and the higher the likelihood of humane kills.
That's what I took from the video anyway.
If that was Donnie's intention for this video, do you feel he nailed it? What are your thoughts from that point of view?
Cheers
@@100PCMMCW He called the 25 more deadlier. I think that's the discrepancy people are having.
Basically because of the size difference, there is more grab area upon arrival of the projectile, thus quickly arresting it's penetration distance, so that is easily understood. But I think that the .30 cal would inflict more cavitational damage upon entry, thus possibly inflicting more damage. Good vid 👍👍
Thank you! I address this very thing in Part II of this experimentation. It's on our page if you'd like to see.
-Donnie
Thank you, this information is awesome and provides more things to ponder.
Great video. Thank you. These types of unbiased factual information are gold for us newbies. Well done.👏
Great video Donnie!; Among so many variables, very interesting approach considering physics / sec. density / kinetic energy / momentum. I'd also keep in mind, air is also a 'fluid' that exerts drag in a given projectile. All of the documented info truly appreciated!!. I feel lucky I found your YT channel, ergo, I gladly subbed..
😌🇺🇸🙏
Awesome video! I want to do the same thing, comparing the .25 and .30 cal AEA HP SS pistols into some homemade ballistic gel. The .25 is around 35fpe and the .30 (non-plus version) is about 40fpe.
Great idea!
-Donnie
But both would shine in different areas. In gel we see the .25 penetrates better. But shoot a gallon of water and see which has a bigger splash impact on the bottle. Shoot into a t-bone and see which shoots fragments of lead in the meat more.
The gel shows very little
Excellent video. I learned a lot of knowledge. 👍
I’d love to see the results at 40+ yards and see if the results are different. It seems the drag coefficient could be a greater factor at that distance
Thts wht i was thinking about also,how would greater distances effect the performance,also the .25 has less surface so less drag to impede velocity, there's also the design n weight of the pellet
Link?
I love this format. I especially appreciated the manner in which you delivered information. Your speech is clear and intelligent.
What would have helped is accompanying your presentation with graphs. But even without them, your presentation was very clear and helpful. Thank you for sharing this information.
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
Great video Donne! Such of a great Data right here brother!
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
Your video makes me feel better about my .25 Hatsan Bully which has about the same FPE as you are showing. This shows me that the .25 is not a wimpy round and will give good penetration. The .30 cal Bully has 40 FPE more than the .25 so it would hit harder. Maybe try the same test with FPE on both at full power.
Right on! I'll see what I can do.
-Donnie
I don’t care if it’s 25 or 30 I’m just here to watch you’re videos! Love the content!
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
Interesting video, you nailed it I think.
I think the .30 caliber dumps more energy and does this quicker. The ballistic gel jumps up quite a bit in the 30 cal hit. Moreover the .30 caliber remains its energy longer. So try this at 50 m. I have the Hatsan .30 breakbarrel. The trajectory of the heavy pellets is curved, 50 m takes 2,5 milldots.
I love that gun! It's like tossing HAMMERS! I shoot at steel and it is a Blast! That lead turns to leaf at 50yrd on thick swinging steel
I bet it kicks quite a bit too
Great to watch ! Thanks
Excellent info, and great execution Sir
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
That was interesting. Thanks for doing this.
Who shoots 2 calibers at the same energy though? 25 cal is capable of 100ft lb and the 30 cal much more. 60gr 30 cal at 950fps vs 50gr 25 cal at 950fps the 30 cal is going to perform better right? Slugs are designed to expand and stop with the exception of bull nose or solid nose slugs so very cool break down of what you've shown but I can't see anyone going up to a 35 cal to shoot it at 600fps to go hunting. FPE comparison is great for what you're showing though nice work for giving the up side and down side in both options.
Tbh their is the rule of thumb to 'keeping everything the same except one thing' when conducting experiments
🤣buy one of ea🥳
@@jeffchin1197 or have 1 that shoots all 3 progressively harder hitting with each caliber on 1 tune?
Another interesting comparison would be at a longer range, where the BC of projectiles make a big difference.
Thanks for taking the time to create this video and demonstrate the differences between the two calibers. However, if you would take a moment to answer just one quick question, I'd be obliged. What brand and model airgun would you describe as being the most lethal? Thank you.
You did an amazing job demonstrating the power and physics of it all. Something that i myself was curious about and wanted to know. With that said I’m buying a 25 cal now 😁🤙
Great job brother!! I enjoy these!
Thanks bro!
-Donnie
Lot's can be said about this topic and how one wishes to use this information, but as a general rule when dispatching an animal you typically want to transfer the complete amount energy of the projectile to the target. Even more important than that, is first hitting the target in the best location for the cleanest kill. This will ensure the most successful result. If a projectile passes through the target precious energy has been wasted. Too many variables to talk about depending on many issues but that is a good start. Enjoyed seeing your results and after testing similar things with handguns I was not surprised with your results. A .22 rimfire will travel through more 2X4's than .a .357Mag, a 45ACP, and a 44Mag but I would have a different choice than a .22 rimfire for a personal protection weapon, if available. Good stuff to ponder.
I forget who said it but it is a universal truth: a .177 to the head is way more likely to kill than a .457 to the foot. It's all about shot placement. Good post. Take it easy.
@@davidpaylor5666 exactly. That would be one unbelievable sore foot though. LOL
@@larrycoleman2225 Yep. You might WISH you were dead with that much lead in what remains of your ankle but won't kill you.
@@davidpaylor5666 Yeah, I agree, LOL. Might need a tourniquet to slow the red ooze. ;)
@@davidpaylor5666 with that said I have never seen an eighteen inch brain either.... lol just saying
Great video information. Thank you for doing that 👍👍
Great review! And thank you for the physics lesson. As a fellow nerd that looks like a biker I appreciate your presentation.
Thanks man!
-Donnie
I love how you break it down Barney style. My wife can figure it out 😂
I love the nerdy aspects of theoretical analysis.
Combined, with actual,
scientifically measured testing.
👍 Right On.
Does the wound channel in ballistic gel indicate one caliber is better over another?
Hmm...very interesting data. It most certainly makes since when comparing the two calibers at the same ft/lbs of energy. However, my 30 caliber FX Maverick (with mods) is putting out ~110 ft/lbs with FX hybrid slugs 44.5 gn at 1053 ft/s (not an ideal speed for those slugs) and ~116 ft/lbs with NSA 49.5 gn at 1026 ft/s. I also have the option of slowing this down by using heavier slugs while upping the ft/lbs of energy and possibly increasing the accuracy. My point being that if my 30 caliber couldn't do better than 70 ft/lbs, I would have never bought it. In fact, Matt Dubber has shown that the FX Impact in 22 caliber can hit 70ft/lbs and it's very capable.
I agree. My threshold for a .30 is 100ft-lbs, and @100 ft-lbs. . .it's a great caliber for airgunning, I feel it's the best "bigger bore" size, but don't break that 100+ ft-lbs rule and it performs very well.
@@life_of_riley88 I've seen slugs up to 150gr, possible to shoot something that heavy by adjusting the hammer on a 100 fpe gun? I'm thinking about getting the new umarex gauntlet .30 for my first air gun. I want to smack some coyotes that come at night for my 🐔 🐓 100 yards max.. any advice?
@@slick408 The challenge with going over 50+ grains in .30 Cal is that you might get more energy, but not many guns will push them very fast. I think you'll find that 45-60 grain NSA slugs do VERY well on Coyotes as long as they're going above 900fps at impact. Try to stay at or above 100ft-lbs and you'll do fine.
Great video thanks
great video. What about using wound channel width as a measurement?
Excellent information thanks.
Excellent explanation and rudimentary insight into projectile physics. You proved valid points for both calibers and showed that all other things being equal, that with a light projectile of identical momentum and lower drag will out-penetrate a more massive projectile of higher drag with less velocity -ie- speed kills. Referring to WW1 and WW2 tank armor penetration studies conducted by the US Army will validate your conclusions as well. Roy Weatherby was really into something.... But for all you ladies and gentlemen out there still trying to quantify "killing power" please remember that a .25 bullet might expand, but a .30 will never get any smaller. Great video and I hope to see more like it. Take care.
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
How does the long range ballistic coeficient differences between the two calibers effect accuracy and penetration?
On a pass through does the target absorb all energy generated as would the contained projectile? And I’d any value added for hydraulic shock to to the living tissue?
Would have loved to see this done at 50 or 100 yards. Nice video thank you.
My Hatsan hercules bully in 25cal is an AWESOME pcp it lays down 80 f-lbs with a Diablo 25gr. @ 1200 fps. Thats with a slight tune, just turning a screw a bit.
The 25cal Hatsan bully is no joke.
very educational thanks in my experience 70FPE is as high i can currently get my 25 cal wildcat, but my impact does 105FPE without try hard- would like to see your analysis is at 105FPE?
Awesome video!!!!
Lethality is determined by how much kinetic energy is delivered on target, pass through's leave little to no damage (wound channel collapses in on itself the entire length, this is where smaller cross section projectiles with hollowed out cross sections excel, they leave a gaping wound channel that does not collapse on itself, and blood loss and trauma set in) where as a hit and stay in target leave's said wound channel open where the projectile is embedded which translates to more blood loss, and more trauma on soft targets.
Head shots are all about penetration, just like body armor is defeated by higher velocities, with smaller cross sections at POI.
H&N 31.1gr Grizzlies are ideal for head shots, they have a small cross section starred hollow point, made with hardened lead.
It's NOT just about penetration. It's also about wound cavity. The 30 caliber wins as far as total destruction. That's the bet to go with.
EXACTLY! The difference in depth is NOT significant! If the 25 kills a hog, Im betting the 30 would do it better due to a bigger hole and a heavier pellet. He nerded his way into nonsense.
@@jrwill58 Absolutely!
I have no formal education in physics beyond high school. However, I have to know how and why things work in my many hobbies. Archery, billards, airguns, and most recently darts and slingshots all involve a lot of physics. I research and study until I understand what is going on. My wife is a math and science teacher. She often says " it's called applied physics (or math) . Yep, I a nerd.
Anyway, I need more videos like this. Educational. Short. Direct. A voice that scares the living shit out of me! Lol!
That's not saying I don't absolutely enjoy when you cut loose on videos ( that Randy Savage thing) made me spray bourbon on my phone!
You folks have a good thing going. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy this channel.
LOLOL at the voice thing. That's really cool that you study the world. I applaud you, sir!
-Donnie
What would the reg be set at for 70 ft lbs
your not going to make us angry your doing a fine job letting us know what is what :)
Would the 25 be about the same as a 22long or a 22short?
This video actually made me feel better about getting a 25 caliber
Don't take this seriously.
Like your information ; i believe 30gr infact is acting like a brake on impact on the jelly from its width & weight .
Cheers .nice video.
Would they same result come out in a 25 cal vs 30 cal in a break barrel gas pistol? That would be nice to see🙏
I don't think I have ever subscribed to a channel faster. We need more physics discussed with our cool toys and tools!
Right on! Glad to have you, and glad you dig what we do.
-Donnie
No hostility here. But (you know there had to be a but) the projectiles are made of the same material. The projectiles ductility has to be considered compared to the targets resistance to deformation and desired depth of penetration to adequately predict its performance on a given target. I would like to see testing with projectiles of various hardness at the same velocity. (for penetration testing)
It could very well be ,in a hunting or defense situation , that the .30, while not going as deep into the target may have distributed its energy in a way that was more effective compared with deeper penetrating projectiles of a smaller diameter ,made of the same soft lead. That extra momentum and increased frontal area ,(that increases the resistance to penetration ,) is what knocks thing down . It also makes a broader wound channel that is less likely to close behind the projectile. It really depends on exactly what one desires to achieve with the projectile’s terminal performance.
Great vid. 👍
We need affordable pellet cast and swage molds to be produced in this country so we can play with different lead alloys.
You want to get right on that Don?😁👍
There’s a Vietnamese fellow that has come up with what looks like an effective system made from plates of steel. Feel free to root around in my playlists about DIY homemade airgun pellets it’s in there somewhere.
The cross sectional friction coefficient of a projectile is increased as diameter increases thus less penetration as caliber increases
There is still more to this that should be factored in. Show the wound channel and upset between them and I believe it show show a much different picture. Another thing this does show is that the .30 caliber transfers it's energy into the target much more rapidly causing much higher shock. These air guns in either caliber are used for small game that do not have a 13" or 18" cross section so a projectile with the capability to transfer its energy much faster has the advantage. I have seen this argument in archery just the same and the heavier projectile always won. There is also the difficulty in testing this in hunting handguns. There had to be a different test and physics equation created because the equations used for rifle cartridges made large bore handgun cartridges and even many large bore rifle cartridges look absolutely harmless. They came up with something called the K.O factor. Love the video. I'm now a subscriber.
Very good test with interesting results for sure. Though I can't claim this for pellet rifles but normal rifle calibers. When you have two rounds/caliber with the same energy when it comes to game the wider bullet makes the faster recovery due to the wider wound channel.
thank you so much for great video. would really like to see .22 vs .25 if poss
Wouldn't you tune both for accuracy? It seems their speeds would be much closer than 130 fps; or did I hear the velocities wrong?
In my mind I was thinking that the smaller diameter .25 pellet going faster than the .30 cal would penetrate farther.
So which round would be better for hunting ? .25 caliber or .30 cal ? Or maybe a .35. Cal ? @baker airguns
Great video buddy. Totally agree. Have To say my 25 Impact MK2 will hit 100ftlb so that could be interesting against a 100ftlb 30cal
.25 will completely flog the .30 at them speeds, the .30 won’t even be able to achieve a suitable speed for testing purposes.
@@precisionairguns5553 thats what I figured
Thanks man! That would be a cool test.
-Donnie
Very interesting video. I think the 30cal had more kinetic energy than the 25cal. I would like to see you do a video of the 25 and 22 Cal.
So what type of air rifle(s) is used?
in practice the same type pcp do have a output 177 is 30 fp .a 22 45 fp, a 25 60 fp and a .30 80 fp
so the comparing is only with the same output energy in your test
and my tuned dreamline is doing 115 fpounds .30 also a 700 mm barrel and the rest tuning parts whats needed ,you can not get there with a smaller caliber because 150 bar is more driving force at a bigger bullet
and also there is speed limit with pellets somewhere 900 fps (accuray)so you have to find it in the weight of the projectile the output.
Here in Texas, we can now hunt deer with air guns, but it has to be .30cal or larger.
I have no doubt though a good high powered .25cal would work well enough providing you could get good shot placement at reasonable ranges
I would wonder what the specs are on the .357 Cal would be?
Great video.....age old battle of calibers.....6.5 vs 7.62
Gimme my Swede!!! Just ordered a sidewinder 25. Wind drift is also something to consider.
I have a Hatsan 135 QE vortex .25 caliber break barrel air rifle that I shoot H&N 22 grain hornet pellets from and I did a penetration test video that I posted on my channel shooting a hornet pellet from 20 feet away at 3 back to back plastic gallon water jugs and the hornet deposited so much energy into the first jug as they tend to do within the first 5 inches of penetration as is evidenced by it partially ripping the back of the first jug when exiting and it poked a hole in the other side of the second jug but didn’t quite exit it. Had I been shooting a 29 grain domed pellet with the 29 or 30 foot pounds of energy my rifle is putting out at the muzzle it probably would have entered the third jug but not deposited as much energy into the first jug and thus not done as much damage. In a similar test with the Diana 350 magnum .22 I used to have shooting a JSB 18.13 grain domed pellet with about 24 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle it would penetrate slightly deeper poking the third jug but not piercing it but not depositing as much energy or damaging the first jug as much. Even with 5 less foot pounds of energy the domed pellet held onto it’s energy slightly further. Yet when shooting an unopened gallon Hawaiian Punch container the Diana 350 magnum couldn’t shoot the domed pellet through it but my Hatsan could shoot the hornet through it because it’s only about 5 inches of liquid to get through as well as the 2 thick layers of plastic and the hornets dump most of their energy within the first 5 inches so the greater energy from my rifle could get the hornet through that 5 inches. This test comparison on this video should be done with the .25 caliber and .30 caliber versions of my rifle using domed pellets
Excellent video. I saw similar videos online but I still wasn’t 100% convinced. Thanks one test I would like to see is the exact same guns shot at different distances and at what point do they lose penetration or I guess it’s called inertia. I wasn’t good with math, but I’m an economics freak I read it almost every day. I believe in progressive demand-side economics which completely different than supply-side economics. I don’t know why I shifted from firearms to economics.😊
As someone who owns a DeltWolf I would like to see this test with both rounds at the same fps. I would probably set the rifle to shoot either at 950fps. The you would see a substantial difference.
Hi :-) its been a year already since this video came out, but since is such a good video I wanted to ask. I am new to PCP, I very much welcome the noise reduction from firearms, and an important information for choosing what caliber to get is the useful distance. What is the max hunting distance for these calibers?. Thank you.
Hi Donny. I think is is worth noting that although the .25 (through a hard target) only had 4.7% increase in penetration, that the .30 cal has a 20% larger wound channel. So, in the end. If penetration is more important, then .25 is the way to go. But, if damage to a critter is desired - then the .30 would be a better choice. Hares, racoon, or coyotes!?
Have you seen Part II of this examination? It's on our page.
-Donnie
When would you turn the 30 cal down to equal FPE? Obviously if the bigger diameter hims a target with equal energy in won't go in as far. What's the point of this?
I'm just getting interested in air guns. This was well presented.
Thank you very much!
-Donnie
Good test mate 👍 but it makes me wonder even if the .30 doesn’t penetrate as far would it not cause more damage with the extra diameter with a bigger wound channel and be more concussive. Just a thought might be a good video to try out.
Yes! He only tested penetration, no real analysis of wound channel size etc.
just a idea, increase the distance and test again . smaller projectiles have a disadvantage of wind, but i would like to see if the 25 can maintain its advantage at a greater distance. as with any hunting round it is the damage and wound channel that do the killing so the 30 will make a bigger hole and do more damage BUT with penetration as the subject of debate i would like to know if the 25 will shed fpe faster and loose the advantage. really interested as i have been thinking about getting a 25. i have no preference in airgun calibers i just love to shoot them.
Good stuff but penetration after 12" does not matter much on most animals . How thick is a squirrel? Rabbit? 12" is more than enough
If you JUST take the frontal area of pellets.
.177 = 15,9 mm2
.22 = 23,75 mm2
.25 = 31,65 mm2
.30 = 45,6 mm2
A 40 J .177 has. 40 :15,9 = 2,52 J/ mm2... To get 2,52 J / mm2 for the other cal. you need..
.22 : 2,52 x 23,75 = 59,85 J or 44 ftp
.25 : 2,52 x 31,65 = 79,76 J or 59 ftp
.30 : 2,52 x 45,6o = 114,9 J or 86 ttp
So, what guns did you use or did I miss it? Were they all PCP, spring piston or gas piston? Which pellets? Because different grains and material make a difference.
Every last bit of that information is in the video. Did you not watch it?
-Donnie
@ALLTHINGSAIRGUN thats why I asked did I miss it. Did you mention the make and models of each gun or just general information? I even looked at the article and wasn't there and wasn't about to watch this long arrogant video all over again, but forget it. Got what I needed long ago.
@@mileshodge3477 Apparently not....and that is why you fail.
So...in theory...a .22 cal 33.95 grain pellet producing 70 FPE should out penetrant a .25 cal also at 70 FPE? Right? Less surface resistance? Would love to see that test as well. Would try it my self but I can not obtain that grain pellet in that caliber at the moment, and I don't have a .22 cal PCP that makes that much power.
Great info thank you
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching.
-Donnie
Which caliber produced the largest wound cavity in your experiment? My first guess would be the .30 caliber.
There is no appreciable difference in wound track or wound cavity.
-Donnie
@@BakerAirguns that is only because the gel cavities shrink. Using a medium that doesn't do so, will show the 30 cal makes a larger channel.
@@CadillacDriver That is incorrect. See Part II of this experiment on our TH-cam page.
-Donnie
@@BakerAirguns which part? The meat? It also shrinks.
@@CadillacDriver Think about what you're saying.
-Donnie
I thought the .30 should be somewhere around 100-130ftlbs??? I know the 50 is like 170 or so the 45 is somewhere around 150 or so is it not? They even have that new .72 cal out and its way up there too i dont know all the exact specs here . But i woukd like to know if that is correct because im considering getting a coyote night time killer for my arra
Excellent video and very scientifically sound conclusions. No, no one should get icky with you as you do not have control over the laws of physics. I own guns in both calibers and and see the value in both.
This it pretty much just common sense. Testing with same energy but smaller diameter …lol. obviously it will penetrate deeper because there is less surface area creating drag. The whole point of larger Airgun calibers is to allow more weight and more air volume able to push that weight to a similar velocity, which equals substantially more energy and in turn, more penetration AND energy dump at the same time.
My Bulldog with Pitbull power spring puts out about 3 times the power (foot pounds/kinetic energy) as a .25 handgun firearm. It's about 215 ft/lbs which is about 100 ft/lbs short of a 9mm Luger round
Hey bro What's up..
Can u please tell me which fx airgun is best maverick or m3 & which calibre is best 25 or 30??
Regards.. love from Pakistan 🇵🇰
For a lethality test, cavitation must also be measured. How does that compare between the two?
Did you ever do a text with the 22vs25
Nice, interesting & entertaining video
If you're rich, both are lots of fun and you can own whatever you like and put whatever you like to your purpose. That being said, I am careful what I buy, and I was shopping for info on this very subject and did find this video.
I've got a Hatsan Mod 125 .17 cal. can't live without an excellent gas-piston break barrel. Next, my .22 cal. Benjamin Marauder pistol is loads of fun. So, this was a question of which heavier caliber to get, .25 or .30? Well, it might be both. But I'm getting the .25 regardless, based only on what I saw here. Thinking of getting the Hatsan Galatian Tact. Because Tactical is practical.
A truly fair comparison wouldn't be based on equivalent FPE, but rather through matching VELOCITY. Eliminating the squared factor would allow for direct comparison of momentum/drag coefficient for a more accurate assessment of penetration at range between calibers
Everything you just said is wrong.
-Donnie
We’ll carried test…congrats!!!
Just wondering about Impact vs Penetration ???
I would assume most people are shooting birds and squirrels and maybe raccoon size animals. And when you're getting a full pass through every time penetration doesn't matter anymore. It's the wound channel which the wound channel of the 25 would be bigger. So it would be more damage
I think heavy slugs needs more power so you cannot set a 25cal the same way as a 30 cal and expect to get better results from the 30 cal
Good info. 👍 Would you use a domed pellet or expanding hunting pellet for a hog head shot?
I only ever used domed pellets. Shot placement and penetration are the critical factors for our comparatively low-energy airguns.
-Donnie
Baker Airguns Ok Thanks!
Deeper penetration is the inverse of the reason why expanding projectiles are used.
Expanding projectiles are used because they are deadlier. That is true, unless they have insufficient penetration.
Penetration is the foremost function of a projectile. When dealing with low energy airguns (compared to high energy firearms), penetration is often questionable. If it doesn't go in, or go in far enough, energy transfer is a moot point. Even the biggest, baddest airguns made are barely firearm handgun powerful. How do handguns kill? They poke holes so you bleed, even with modern hollowpoints. Airguns are no different, and less powerful.
-Donnie
@@BakerAirguns The conversation needs to start with identifying the quarry. Underpenetration is rarely a problem on a rabbit. It may be on a hog.
Would love to see the same comparison for 177 and 22
Good suggestion !!! That's always the magic question for most of us out here in TH-cam land.
Can you imagine a 70 ft/lb .177? That would be something
@@garrysansoucie only allowed .177 here in Cyprus, believe me 35 ft/lb is crazy enough. Zeroed at 40m anything from 30 to 70 metres is pretty much cross hairs on target is where you hit POA = POI
@@garrysansoucie .177 @ 70 FPE? That would be a 15 grain NSA slug at 1450 fps. Hmmm...
Aea varmint pcp will do 60fpe in .177