I’m of the opinion we won’t need HOI5 for a long time. HoI4 can be improved via patches and DLCs. HoI5 will only be “needed” when HoI4’s engine isn’t good enough to fully utilize peak commonly available hardware
In my opinion, the most needed change to the engine is with economics and GDP. The current factories model is very flawed and only works because of the limited timescope of the game. But fixing this would require an economic model that the average player's computer hardware likely can't handle. So I think you're right there.
@@carthagegamingstudios to be honest, I dont think HoI needs, or even would benefit from, a massively complex economic system. Don't get me wrong, I like complexity in my Paradox games, but as you said the factories model works for the limited timescope - and that limited timescope, together with a focus on combat, are the defining aspects of HoI, so I really dont see the point in a GDP system that is so complex that the average players hardware right now couldnt even handle it.
@@carthagegamingstudios Like half of modern mods use a form of GDP system calculated for all countries, it would not be that hard to add it into the base game
@@carthagegamingstudiosTo an extent adding economic modeling to hoi4 would be the equivalent of giving every nation the scaling mefo debuffs but with no way to fix them. Given HOI’s reliance on being a war game and its position as one of the hardest if not the hardest PDX games I feel like a fleshed out economy would just be overkill. I’d much rather they make diplo engaging or improve the command system and AI.
Now that you mention it the fact that the devs are still very active in the community and updating the game frequently most likely means that they won't be releasing a new game for many more years to come.
Not unexpected tbh, EU4 came out in 2013 and we are only just now starting to see a sequel being worked on. Main reason EU4 is probably getting a sequel right about now is because its engine is sorely outdated. HOI4's engine is a lot more up to date, so it might take longer to get a sequel than EU4 did. Vicky 2 took 12 years to get a sequel, and it looks like its gonna take EU4 12 years to get its sequel. so it may very well be 2028 before a HOI4 sequel comes around, so long as they dont max out the capabilities of the engine before that point.
@@pekaman4712 Yea, we will probably see an EU5 right around the corner next year, so the next game realistically will probably be HOI5 about 3 years later... well, unless they surprise dropkick us with a March of the Eagles 2 or something lmao.
Not to mention the ridiculously high price for all EU4 DLCs, regardless of the subscription posibility, makes it increasingly hard to make EU4 players put even more money for new DLCs, we already saw it in HoI4 with the South America DLC, and even some people have decided not to buy Arms against Tirany or By blood Alone. It's seen the same result in almos every Paradox game as people simply can't keep putting money into DLCs for so many games, cause the majority of players want to OWN the DLCs as oposed to be subscribed to play them for a month or so. Stellaris has had a bunch of DLCs down horrendously lately, same as Victoria 3 and even Crusader Kings 3, without counting failures like Cities Skylines 2.
I don’t think that even Paradox expected this success. If they release DLCs at REASONABLE prices, the game would continue to flourish because no one will be complaining. It’s just fine and there’s no need for an entire new game. Just look at FC (FIFA) and how everyone complains about buying the same game every year for $60+ Mods are also a game changer by themselves even Paradox endorses it.
i actually don't want hoi5 for atleast a decade, it would mean having to abandon what i know and spent on this game, and having to spend even more on a new one not to mention paradox releases their games broken and fixes them with dlcs, so no thanks
Can't... you... come back? Look, I get getting the new sequel 'n all means learning whatever horrific content comes with it. But you don't... y'know. *_Lose_* ownership of HOI4. you can still go back to it, probably still has a good modding base (like victoria 2.)
@@E.V.A.N-COProductions but the majority of the community will move to the new game won't it? so if he was talking about multi it would very likely suffer. also if the modding community moves away that will not help as well.
@@SoVega301 ROFL. Multiplayer is pretty terrible for non-vanilla HOI4. If HOI5 actually has a multiplayer that can handle mods, then that's more than welcome. _Even if._ The modding community moves away, that would take years, especially if HOI5 is better. Multiplayer is the same.
I have zero problem with this tbh. What would HOI5 offer that would be a significant upgrade? It would need to run smoother, have a better AI, more modding support and capabilities, etc. I am generally not a fan of sequels that are just a coat of paint, and HOI5 would only interest me if it was a new engine that was capable of much much more. It's not the days when a new generation causes massive leaps in tech and a sequel is going to be radically different (for better or worse) and _warrants_ a sequel.
Really makes you wonder why Paradox had to release Cities Skylines 2 when the first game was still getting updated and had the same upwards trends of players like hoi4.
I think that was something of a cash grab. CS kinda has a lot of issues but CS2 seems to only address them rather than “fix” them. Also it was kinda of hard to justify a paid “dlc” for CS. More buildings? More intricate mechanics? When half of the ones in game don’t work or are hellaciously convoluted? CS2 seems like an obvious choice
@@jaxionmaxomus4315 yeah, I mean I do like CS 2 and feel like CS is unplayable after getting used to CS 2 but the game seemed to be doing fine until its successor got released last year. Business wise I just don't understand why they released CS 2.
I genuinely did not expect to agree so much with this video when I saw the title and thumbnail, but you make a really good point. You could F11 on your browser so that folk aren't distracted by the bottom or top bars, regardless; brilliant commentary!
Why are sequels needed, or expected? Does every single franchise need game, after game, after game, after game, until we have HoI 34? Let the whole rotten structure collapse.
sequels are needed and expected because of hardware advancements and replacing a game from 2002 with an update that changes the engine to a modern 2024 version and changes absolutely nothing could have the potential to upset users on top of the business side of the game with it not making sense. see: Counter Strike:Global Offensive & Counter Strike 2's release.
@@therealjoeyp Reword your first paragraph, the run on sentence is hard to understand. Your other point could actually be understood. In response I say that CS2 is an absolutely terrible game, more like an online gambling casino. You blabber something about techs in your nigh-indecipherable first paragraph. A new engine is automagically something good, for you? New=/=good. It's not as if a new engine could fix the problems at the core of HoI. At the end of the day, it is your numbers, against their numbers, and where you put those numbers at. It is not rocket science, it does not require a new graphics engine, it does not require a new framework. The only additions they could make is a dedicated proxy war system (done already through lend leases and volunteers), or economy-side functions or actually fixing the AI or multiplayer (the two latter of which are impossible from the incompetent team at paradox). What's damning is ALL of these have been proven to be solvable without a new engine through the work of different mod teams.
@@therealjoeyp The run on sentence is hard to understand. I could only really understand the last sentence, so in response I say that CS2 is an absolutely terrible game, more like an online gambling casino.
6:12 that’s wrong the reason for the sudden focus tree change of Germany and Hungary was that their focus trees were lacking and had problems especially for Germany who was one of the main characters of the game, it’s the same reason for why those same dlcs now come with the base game
Regarding “New Coke,” my mom has a theory, that the whole purpose of it was to introduce corn syrup into “Coke Classic.” The idea is that Coke would create a product that was bad on purpose so that people would complain and clamper for the original. Then Coke would cave and reintroduce “coke classic,” however while in essence it tasted the same, there was always something off about it. “Coke classic” never tasted the exact same as the OG coke before the switch. When my mom tried Mexico coke for the first time, she claimed that it tasted like the coke of her childhood, and a quick look at the ingredients showed that Mexico coke still used cane sugar instead of the corn syrup “coke classic” uses. Kinda random but it would make sense in terms of business. Most people wouldn’t notice the switch that way and coke could use a cheaper ingredient in their product.
Eh, nobody wants a Cold War game from Paradox? Like not that many people know about East vs. West: A Hearts of Iron Game (and even less people know that you can actually play it, even though it was officially cancelled). But sure, give me another WW2 game, even though Paradox made at least 4 games about it.
HOI5 wont be needed unless the devs cannot do something essential with the current engine, basically, unless the engine breaks or is insuficient, the devs will simply keep updating HOI4 because there is no need to create a new game.
Why would we want hoi5? Hoi4 literally has EVERYTHING that a hoi game would ever need. They could release a sequel to hoi4 that is about world war 1, but there's already mods for it, so it's pointless.
the thing about the newer paradox games is that they're being made with improved engines, meaning with these better engines its gonna be longer and longer between sequels which, imo is a good thing, only reason why ck3, vic3, and eu5 are made is because the old games were starting to struggle due to the limitations of the engines, but Hoi4 frankly is doing fine rn.
The problem is that it's already quite apparent the game has a lot of issues that I don't think will ever be fixed until a HOI5 is released. The game's performance is terrible. Even in vanilla, it starts to struggle around 1940, and this is even more noticeable with mods like R56 or Kaiserreich. A lot of mechanics can't even be implemented into the game to deepen it. Any GDP, currency, economic, trade, or deepened military development mechanics are out of the question because the game's timeframe is so short that these features wouldn't really have any utility. Many mods have tried to implement these features, but almost all of them feel clunky due to the game's short timeframe and available coding options. The wonder weapon developments introduced in Götterdämmerung are 95% useless in the game because, first of all, their development takes a very long time, and second, many of them require prior technological advancements from the facilities. Diplomacy is practically non-existent in the game, considering that HOI4 was initially a railroad strategy game with very little room for deviation. If you're communist, you can be best buddies with every other communist country; if you're fascist, the same applies to fascists, and if you're democratic, the same applies to democracies. As for Non-Aligned, you don't even have that-you're entirely reliant on focus trees for diplomacy. Besides, AI is so stupid that in many cases it is simply hard-coded just to make events happen in a way that simulates reality, and it is basically so stupid that it is completely incapable of making any logical political/diplomatic decisions. The biggest issue with a potential HOI5 would likely be that, based on the release pattern of Paradox games, they'd only release a minimal foundation that they'd plan to expand with DLCs, much like what happened with Victoria 3. Taking this into account, a HOI5 probably wouldn't even include half the features of the current HOI4 at launch. The only potential for a good HOI5 release would be if it launches with everything already included from the latest version of HOI4-just with an extended timeframe, a better engine, improved AI, and more complex economic and political options. Otherwise it's pointless.
hoi5 would just mean having to buy an overpriced bare bones game and then spending 15$ each on future DLCs that should have been in the base game to begin with.
1:36 Bad example for your argument. The new coke phase and the return to cole classic was largely a way to drop cane sugar as an ingredient from the recipe. The coke classic that they produced after the event and that which was produced beforehand tasted distinctly different, so they did change the recipe in the interim, but because they had a gap not many people could tell the difference.
Honestly I don’t see a need for HOI5. What I think would be better if they had to make a new HOI game is maybe working alongside mod creators to create a revamped and independent TNO or Kaiserreich game with an engine that is totally optimized for the distinct features of those mods.
This is very true. I'll give an anecdote of mine to better illustrate your point: Back in around 2021 - 2022, Bioware released a remastered version of their Mass Effect trilogy. It had a completely revamped Mass Effect 1, and remastered Mass Effect 2 and 3. Now to understand, I began playing Mass Effect 2 back in 2010. I was 6 years old and it was everything i had known in the series (i knew the others existed, though,) and up until 2017 I played it on a PS3, until I got a PS4 and sold the 3. When I got a PC in 2020, I got ME2 and played the shit out of it (as well as ME3, just not as much,) I probably completed it 5 times between 2020 and 2022. Then the "Legendary Edition" got released. I played ME1 for the first time and re-experienced ME3. I hated the remaster of ME2. Why? Was it worse? No, it was objectively better. It had bug fixes, better lighting, ammo distribution, a better crosshair, the whole lot. I only preferred the original because it was what I already knew. So no matter what they did I wouldn't have liked it. Since then i have swallowed the pill and have grown to love it. also the fact that my favorite mods got eventually ported helped. The point stands, however; HOI4 in it's current state is good enough for most people- and as the playerbase continues to grow, there's no reason to assume that we "need" a HOI5. It's just simply not in demand; there's not a current market for it.
If im completely honest i dont want a hoi5 i feel like Victoria 3 just tells us that paradox should work on the formula that currently works in their favor. The dlcs are doing fine even if overpriced
Of all Paradox excel simulator games, HOI5 is the one that just isn’t needed. HOI4 is so popular and still extremely fun, not to mention has a lot of complexity while still being simple enough to pick up and play at any time. EU4 crashed every time you opened the menu, had terrible performance and just looked outdated. HOI4 suffers none of these problems. The most recent DLC added so much to the game and was received so well, I just don’t see why we would be thinking about HOI5
I kinda want a longer spanning hoi5 with better economics as factories aren’t entirely representative of what the economt was. However i dont think we need a hoi5 till hoi4’s engine is really outdated as the current dlcs look really promising
Genuinely if HoI IV is abandoned I am just going to abandon gaming as a whole. I’m getting to a point in life where video games aren’t as enjoyable and Hearts of Iron IV to me is the most fun. A new game would mean new mechanics, relearning and it just doesn’t make sense because it’s not like this game is attracting a broad community like COD or Fortnite. I feel like I’m not alone in saying HoI IV will always be that game for me, and even if the DLC isn’t always top notch it’s still fun to have so much flavor. Starting over we would just have another “when is Italy getting updated” situation and that sounds miserable.
Hoi4 is somewhere between the ck2 and eu4 era of paradox games and the imperator and vic3 era of paradox games - ie hoi5 feels too soon to release when the game is still running fine
To be fair, something similar happened with EU4. Granted, the increase over time wasn't as high as with HOI4, but it was a thing. It's only started reversing recently, and they've hit the practical limit of what they and modders can do on the engine within the confines of the game. I think we'll eventually see something similar with HOi4 five years or so from now once the engine Project Caesar is running on has matured and the kinks ironed out. Granted, HOI4 has a large amount of room to grow still, and what modders have been able to do with it is nothing short of incredible. Compare these games to their more troubled releases; Imperator, which they abandoned, and Victoria 3, which is far from the halcyon peak it fell from at release, where the overall trend is much the opposite of HOI4 and EUIV. Meanwhile, CK3 sits in the middle of the road, where it's seeing a very slow increase over time in average number of players, but not at the level of HOI4, nor has it peaked yet like EUIV.
I mean, hoi4 is a great game, we don't need a hoi5, and all the flaws like economic system may be a bit bad, but over the time the game us untended to go it works just fine, i mean i would like heavily extended diplomacy system and ai going not by what it should do, loke France joining Allies, but by what focus it should do, so France doesn't think "Germany's dangerous right now, i should join allies", French ai thinks "i need to complete focus that joins me to allies now" is kind of flawed, but works fine and nothing is stopping Paradox releasing dlc that expands diplomacy.
Paradox will never make a new game after the disaster launch of Vicky 3 and Cities 2, its sad because i staunchly believe those games are good, but as you said with the new coke example, people just hate rather than try
Vic2 also was a game that was enduring well over the years, yet they first ended the expansions and then left it. IMO HOI5 can either come out as you said or be a totally different experience to HOI4, like Vic3 was to Vic2; I'm talking about way more complex management of military, politics and economics, all in all HOI3 with all it's flaws (which are unbearable for many) still has an active player-base
HOI5 will start development after EU5 releases (since Paradox games are built on top of each other). While yes, HOI4 is very, very, very popular and will continue to stay that way for years to come, but at some point the engine will reach its limits because of the sheer amount of content but also its age. There are already signs of that happening in some areas of the game. I predict that there'll be 3-5 dlcs before the devs start working on hoi5 and when they have something to show off, start writing devlogs about it.
In my opinion, HOI4 is a game that doesn't know what it wants to be, and that's why it tries to do them all at the same time, but can't do any of them well. For example, in this game, are we governing a state or the man at the head of the state (I say this because of Stalin's purges against us - the decisions of the head of state against the player - when we chose the Trotskyist path while playing Soviets) or we’re commanding the divisions on the front like a WW2 simulation. Or in another example, is this game a sanbox game or a completely “railroaded” WW2 game? - I say this specifically for your video on diplomacy - (That's why I prefer mission trees like in EU4 instead of fully railroaded focus trees - as a sanbox fan - In my opinion, HOI4 is a hybrid game where you can seem to allow for every type of gameplay but can't do any of them properly. If HOI5 is going to be made, its philosophy needs to be well-established. Maybe after that, if it's going to be changed, the economic system and factories should be change. Also not to mentioning the lag in the game after 1944-45.
I don't mind. Even if hoi5 is better i still will play hoi4 because of mods. Once mods are common on 5 i will play that more. The problem is pdx doesn't always make a better game as a sequel. Victoria 3 vs 2 is a perfect example.
If they come out with a new engine. I bet that they re release hoi4, ck3, and Vic 3. This will be after eu5. They definitely have a new engine for eu5. No doubt. The engine is out of date. It’s 16 years old.
If hoi5 did come out I would want a new diplo system and economic system also I would want dlc to carry over from one to the next in csgo to cs2 fashion
Yet again true If it weren't for the mods I would have not bothered with hoi so long if it weren't for mods The dlcs are not worth it I even completely forgot that German atl-hidt was added in waking the tiger lol
But we actually have Hoi5 already! It's just not marketed as such. Hearts of Iron IV is nothing alike it's first releases to the point it coud be argued is not the same game today than 8 years ago, and I mean it quite literaly given not only changes to basic mecanics in thegame but also in how the code functions itself.
Well yeah but I think that's fine, I still like Hoi4 and don't think hoi5 is really needed, eventually it will die off like EU4 sort of did if you look at the steam charts, a lot of what I heard from people who stopped playing is that newer DLC's kept powercreep going and hoi4 will probably end up like that eventually
almost true, the problem is that paradox stopped releasing finished games, just like almost any other dev group outside some indie dev. when it was released in 2016, it was barely passed from alpha to beta, and sold at full price. than in the past years it is getting closer to an actual finished product. still several of the countries do not have any focus tree, and the rest is patched only to the potential of the original pile of stinking poop. so it will be finished at some point, and than hoi 5 will be put into production.
if there ever is a hoi5 i imagine its gonna be a similar launch to what Counter-Strike 2 was to CS:GO. Basically the same game but in a new engine or something, same focus trees, dlc/expansions carry over, maybe it runs a little better or worse, maybe it extends to the late 50s or something who knows.
@worldwidewonders681 It's the only reason why hoi4 is best. It seems like you're soy soyjack that doesn't understand this. Play some TNO and TFR then you understand.
Hearts of Unreal Engine would turn your computer into a f*kn pipe bomb brother. Unreal levels of unoptimized shaders. Unsure Engine on how you even make a map game on unreal engine.
Honestly i'm tired of hoi4 I'm tired of the engine making late game and multiplayer miserable I'm tired of Ai being terrible in every way I'm tired of the terrible economy system I don't want to play/create mods that will attempt to tackle those issues, usually with not much success I haven't bought the newest DLC, partially because of its price, and also because i'm not looking forward to looking at a map for 3 hours again, only for it to get boring, messy and laggy in 1943 I wish hoi4 had some real competition other than random mobile games and Roblox Hoi5 could be such a great improvement, but there is simply no reason for it to exist
I don't really think we need a hoi5 I think the game works well with community content along with dlcs I don't really see anything big that would justify another new game that cannot be done with dlcs or mods.
If there is to be a hoi5 a new engine will be needed. That will take.time to make. Till then hoi4 still works. Look hownlong it took Ironclad to come oit with a sins of a solar empire 2. Be patient people. Hoi4 isn't dead yet amd only mow starting to reach it limits.
I don't want a HOI5, all those DLCs I had to pay for... all gone.
At this point just pirate them
I have wasted too much money on DLCs. 😔
Bruh, it's so easy to pirate the dlc's :Sob:
@@deutschesmanutter uhm, can you DM me to idk... teach me?
Sunk cost falacy
I’m of the opinion we won’t need HOI5 for a long time.
HoI4 can be improved via patches and DLCs.
HoI5 will only be “needed” when HoI4’s engine isn’t good enough to fully utilize peak commonly available hardware
In my opinion, the most needed change to the engine is with economics and GDP. The current factories model is very flawed and only works because of the limited timescope of the game. But fixing this would require an economic model that the average player's computer hardware likely can't handle. So I think you're right there.
@@carthagegamingstudios let me fix that: it would require an economic model that the average player's brain can't handle (including me obviously)
@@carthagegamingstudios to be honest, I dont think HoI needs, or even would benefit from, a massively complex economic system. Don't get me wrong, I like complexity in my Paradox games, but as you said the factories model works for the limited timescope - and that limited timescope, together with a focus on combat, are the defining aspects of HoI, so I really dont see the point in a GDP system that is so complex that the average players hardware right now couldnt even handle it.
@@carthagegamingstudios Like half of modern mods use a form of GDP system calculated for all countries, it would not be that hard to add it into the base game
@@carthagegamingstudiosTo an extent adding economic modeling to hoi4 would be the equivalent of giving every nation the scaling mefo debuffs but with no way to fix them. Given HOI’s reliance on being a war game and its position as one of the hardest if not the hardest PDX games I feel like a fleshed out economy would just be overkill. I’d much rather they make diplo engaging or improve the command system and AI.
HOI5 would come out after WW3, Paradox would make HOI5 a war game simulation of WW3.
"Reviving The Persian Empire as ASSAD in New HOI5 DLC!?!?"
Thumbnail: Assad with no mustache and sunglasses next to Iranian flag
@@someguyoutthere110 would be peak gameplay
"3RD TIMES THE CHARM?! GERMANY AT IT AGAIN!"
*pic of a future German Chancellor next to the flag of Germany*
@@someguyoutthere110 Hoi4 mods already be like
Now that you mention it the fact that the devs are still very active in the community and updating the game frequently most likely means that they won't be releasing a new game for many more years to come.
Eu5 is sceduled to come next year
HOI4 players make a new game-changing mod every year or so, this game is never gonna die just like how Skyrim never dies.
Equestria at war, still don't know how it's that bug
Not unexpected tbh, EU4 came out in 2013 and we are only just now starting to see a sequel being worked on. Main reason EU4 is probably getting a sequel right about now is because its engine is sorely outdated. HOI4's engine is a lot more up to date, so it might take longer to get a sequel than EU4 did. Vicky 2 took 12 years to get a sequel, and it looks like its gonna take EU4 12 years to get its sequel. so it may very well be 2028 before a HOI4 sequel comes around, so long as they dont max out the capabilities of the engine before that point.
Hoi4s engine is a fork of EU4s engine, so by this we would need a EU5 first
@@pekaman4712 Yea, we will probably see an EU5 right around the corner next year, so the next game realistically will probably be HOI5 about 3 years later... well, unless they surprise dropkick us with a March of the Eagles 2 or something lmao.
Not to mention the ridiculously high price for all EU4 DLCs, regardless of the subscription posibility, makes it increasingly hard to make EU4 players put even more money for new DLCs, we already saw it in HoI4 with the South America DLC, and even some people have decided not to buy Arms against Tirany or By blood Alone.
It's seen the same result in almos every Paradox game as people simply can't keep putting money into DLCs for so many games, cause the majority of players want to OWN the DLCs as oposed to be subscribed to play them for a month or so.
Stellaris has had a bunch of DLCs down horrendously lately, same as Victoria 3 and even Crusader Kings 3, without counting failures like Cities Skylines 2.
Hoi4 still feels good to play and it doesnt feel like a 2016 game, i dont think hoi5 is necessary rn, it would be nice but the game is fine as is
eehh...naval combat could be improved
@denishrg9843 do you mean in terms of balancing or fundamentals of the mechanics?
cause I think if it is the former it can be fixed by mods.
@@SoVega301 probably the fundamental. rn it's just oversimplified rule the waves.
I don’t think that even Paradox expected this success.
If they release DLCs at REASONABLE prices, the game would continue to flourish because no one will be complaining. It’s just fine and there’s no need for an entire new game. Just look at FC (FIFA) and how everyone complains about buying the same game every year for $60+
Mods are also a game changer by themselves even Paradox endorses it.
i actually don't want hoi5 for atleast a decade, it would mean having to abandon what i know and spent on this game, and having to spend even more on a new one not to mention paradox releases their games broken and fixes them with dlcs, so no thanks
Can't... you... come back? Look, I get getting the new sequel 'n all means learning whatever horrific content comes with it. But you don't... y'know. *_Lose_* ownership of HOI4. you can still go back to it, probably still has a good modding base (like victoria 2.)
@@E.V.A.N-COProductions but the majority of the community will move to the new game won't it?
so if he was talking about multi it would very likely suffer. also if the modding community moves away that will not help as well.
@@SoVega301 ROFL. Multiplayer is pretty terrible for non-vanilla HOI4. If HOI5 actually has a multiplayer that can handle mods, then that's more than welcome.
_Even if._ The modding community moves away, that would take years, especially if HOI5 is better. Multiplayer is the same.
Remain calm, Paradox Interactive endures, El Generico lives, the Hearts of Iron shall endure, there is much to be done.
I have zero problem with this tbh. What would HOI5 offer that would be a significant upgrade? It would need to run smoother, have a better AI, more modding support and capabilities, etc. I am generally not a fan of sequels that are just a coat of paint, and HOI5 would only interest me if it was a new engine that was capable of much much more. It's not the days when a new generation causes massive leaps in tech and a sequel is going to be radically different (for better or worse) and _warrants_ a sequel.
Omg thank god it’s not coming out, I am not paying another $500 for a new game and it’s dlc’s
Really makes you wonder why Paradox had to release Cities Skylines 2 when the first game was still getting updated and had the same upwards trends of players like hoi4.
I think that was something of a cash grab. CS kinda has a lot of issues but CS2 seems to only address them rather than “fix” them. Also it was kinda of hard to justify a paid “dlc” for CS. More buildings? More intricate mechanics? When half of the ones in game don’t work or are hellaciously convoluted? CS2 seems like an obvious choice
@@jaxionmaxomus4315 yeah, I mean I do like CS 2 and feel like CS is unplayable after getting used to CS 2 but the game seemed to be doing fine until its successor got released last year. Business wise I just don't understand why they released CS 2.
I genuinely did not expect to agree so much with this video when I saw the title and thumbnail, but you make a really good point.
You could F11 on your browser so that folk aren't distracted by the bottom or top bars, regardless; brilliant commentary!
Why are sequels needed, or expected? Does every single franchise need game, after game, after game, after game, until we have HoI 34? Let the whole rotten structure collapse.
sequels are needed and expected because of hardware advancements and replacing a game from 2002 with an update that changes the engine to a modern 2024 version and changes absolutely nothing could have the potential to upset users on top of the business side of the game with it not making sense.
see: Counter Strike:Global Offensive & Counter Strike 2's release.
@@therealjoeyp Reword your first paragraph, the run on sentence is hard to understand.
Your other point could actually be understood. In response I say that CS2 is an absolutely terrible game, more like an online gambling casino.
You blabber something about techs in your nigh-indecipherable first paragraph. A new engine is automagically something good, for you? New=/=good.
It's not as if a new engine could fix the problems at the core of HoI. At the end of the day, it is your numbers, against their numbers, and where you put those numbers at. It is not rocket science, it does not require a new graphics engine, it does not require a new framework.
The only additions they could make is a dedicated proxy war system (done already through lend leases and volunteers), or economy-side functions or actually fixing the AI or multiplayer (the two latter of which are impossible from the incompetent team at paradox).
What's damning is ALL of these have been proven to be solvable without a new engine through the work of different mod teams.
@@therealjoeyp The run on sentence is hard to understand. I could only really understand the last sentence, so in response I say that CS2 is an absolutely terrible game, more like an online gambling casino.
@@therealjoeyp I hate susan's comment cnsrshp system, it is terrible. I cant write anything without knowing if its gone through or not.
@@kylesteward Agree. CS2 sucks. I enjoyed CSGO much more. also giving a new version when hardware improves over the years is needed.
Honestly a lot of those spikes look like the steam sales
And don’t forget about all the NEW dlcs they can make, there are hundreds even thousands of empires in the world they can make SO many more dlcs
6:12 that’s wrong the reason for the sudden focus tree change of Germany and Hungary was that their focus trees were lacking and had problems especially for Germany who was one of the main characters of the game, it’s the same reason for why those same dlcs now come with the base game
Millenium dawn is HoI5
Nobody wants a hoi4 2 for at least another three years
Id say another 5
until every country in hoi4 has a unqiue playable focus tree and old ones are updated i dont think we need an new installment of hearts of iron
No, then they go back and redo all the outdated trees
Honestly, if HOI5 came out, most of the modding community would probably stay on HOI4.
HOI5 will come whenever HOI4 is milked dry
My brother in Christ ive spent $200 on this game i dont want Hoi5 any time soon
Exactly, if hoi5 comes out I will have to spend several hundreds of dollars to enjoy it
I don't care if we get hoi5 or not, just release the game to consoles pleaseee
GTA VI - 12 Year wait
TES VI - 15 Year wait
Fallout 5 - Atleast 15 Year wait
Witcher 4 - 10 Year wait
TLOU PT2 - 7 Year wait
Half Life 3 - 20 year wait (17 if you count half life 2 episode 2 as a separate game)
Regarding “New Coke,” my mom has a theory, that the whole purpose of it was to introduce corn syrup into “Coke Classic.” The idea is that Coke would create a product that was bad on purpose so that people would complain and clamper for the original. Then Coke would cave and reintroduce “coke classic,” however while in essence it tasted the same, there was always something off about it. “Coke classic” never tasted the exact same as the OG coke before the switch. When my mom tried Mexico coke for the first time, she claimed that it tasted like the coke of her childhood, and a quick look at the ingredients showed that Mexico coke still used cane sugar instead of the corn syrup “coke classic” uses. Kinda random but it would make sense in terms of business. Most people wouldn’t notice the switch that way and coke could use a cheaper ingredient in their product.
New DLCs pushes the spikes up, mods meanwhile keeps the playerbase happy for a while to not leave the game until the next DLC comes out again.
Hey bro, just started watching your channel about 30 minutes ago, and the way you look at Hoi4 is very refreshing and thought provoking
Eh, nobody wants a Cold War game from Paradox? Like not that many people know about East vs. West: A Hearts of Iron Game (and even less people know that you can actually play it, even though it was officially cancelled). But sure, give me another WW2 game, even though Paradox made at least 4 games about it.
There's enough HOI4 mods of the cold war/ alternate cold wars and their endings. I mean Red Dawn is fairly big
@@origional_name_here1429 the base of hoi4 does not work for CW mods. They are nice attempts, but are not great.
HOI5 wont be needed unless the devs cannot do something essential with the current engine, basically, unless the engine breaks or is insuficient, the devs will simply keep updating HOI4 because there is no need to create a new game.
Guess Hearts of Iron 5 has to pull in Half-Life 3 levels of waiting time.
Why would we want hoi5? Hoi4 literally has EVERYTHING that a hoi game would ever need. They could release a sequel to hoi4 that is about world war 1, but there's already mods for it, so it's pointless.
the thing about the newer paradox games is that they're being made with improved engines, meaning with these better engines its gonna be longer and longer between sequels which, imo is a good thing, only reason why ck3, vic3, and eu5 are made is because the old games were starting to struggle due to the limitations of the engines, but Hoi4 frankly is doing fine rn.
They said it about Ck2 and Eu4, But here we are, It will take time but Hoi5 will eventually come out
The problem is that it's already quite apparent the game has a lot of issues that I don't think will ever be fixed until a HOI5 is released.
The game's performance is terrible. Even in vanilla, it starts to struggle around 1940, and this is even more noticeable with mods like R56 or Kaiserreich.
A lot of mechanics can't even be implemented into the game to deepen it. Any GDP, currency, economic, trade, or deepened military development mechanics are out of the question because the game's timeframe is so short that these features wouldn't really have any utility. Many mods have tried to implement these features, but almost all of them feel clunky due to the game's short timeframe and available coding options. The wonder weapon developments introduced in Götterdämmerung are 95% useless in the game because, first of all, their development takes a very long time, and second, many of them require prior technological advancements from the facilities.
Diplomacy is practically non-existent in the game, considering that HOI4 was initially a railroad strategy game with very little room for deviation. If you're communist, you can be best buddies with every other communist country; if you're fascist, the same applies to fascists, and if you're democratic, the same applies to democracies. As for Non-Aligned, you don't even have that-you're entirely reliant on focus trees for diplomacy.
Besides, AI is so stupid that in many cases it is simply hard-coded just to make events happen in a way that simulates reality, and it is basically so stupid that it is completely incapable of making any logical political/diplomatic decisions.
The biggest issue with a potential HOI5 would likely be that, based on the release pattern of Paradox games, they'd only release a minimal foundation that they'd plan to expand with DLCs, much like what happened with Victoria 3. Taking this into account, a HOI5 probably wouldn't even include half the features of the current HOI4 at launch. The only potential for a good HOI5 release would be if it launches with everything already included from the latest version of HOI4-just with an extended timeframe, a better engine, improved AI, and more complex economic and political options. Otherwise it's pointless.
Being real i saw this in my recommended and Jumped for joy
Bro, I don’t want HOI5. I want HOI4 to evolve infinitely
Thare is no Easter bunny there is no tooth fairy and there’s no Hearts of iron 5…
What if Paradox just releases an update that makes the game so unplayable that it dies, then thy release HOI5
Every single paradox game needs to expand upon its predecessor. Look at Victoria 3 to Victoria 2, Eu4 to Eu5.
hoi5 would just mean having to buy an overpriced bare bones game and then spending 15$ each on future DLCs that should have been in the base game to begin with.
1:36 Bad example for your argument. The new coke phase and the return to cole classic was largely a way to drop cane sugar as an ingredient from the recipe. The coke classic that they produced after the event and that which was produced beforehand tasted distinctly different, so they did change the recipe in the interim, but because they had a gap not many people could tell the difference.
Meanwhile Cities Skylines 2 on life support
Honestly I don’t see a need for HOI5. What I think would be better if they had to make a new HOI game is maybe working alongside mod creators to create a revamped and independent TNO or Kaiserreich game with an engine that is totally optimized for the distinct features of those mods.
How is that a bad thing, hoi4 still has the potential to improve
That´s what I´m hoping for, else all those DLCs would have been wasted.
This is very true.
I'll give an anecdote of mine to better illustrate your point:
Back in around 2021 - 2022, Bioware released a remastered version of their Mass Effect trilogy. It had a completely revamped Mass Effect 1, and remastered Mass Effect 2 and 3.
Now to understand, I began playing Mass Effect 2 back in 2010. I was 6 years old and it was everything i had known in the series (i knew the others existed, though,) and up until 2017 I played it on a PS3, until I got a PS4 and sold the 3.
When I got a PC in 2020, I got ME2 and played the shit out of it (as well as ME3, just not as much,) I probably completed it 5 times between 2020 and 2022.
Then the "Legendary Edition" got released. I played ME1 for the first time and re-experienced ME3.
I hated the remaster of ME2. Why? Was it worse? No, it was objectively better. It had bug fixes, better lighting, ammo distribution, a better crosshair, the whole lot.
I only preferred the original because it was what I already knew. So no matter what they did I wouldn't have liked it.
Since then i have swallowed the pill and have grown to love it. also the fact that my favorite mods got eventually ported helped.
The point stands, however; HOI4 in it's current state is good enough for most people- and as the playerbase continues to grow, there's no reason to assume that we "need" a HOI5. It's just simply not in demand; there's not a current market for it.
If im completely honest i dont want a hoi5 i feel like Victoria 3 just tells us that paradox should work on the formula that currently works in their favor. The dlcs are doing fine even if overpriced
Of all Paradox excel simulator games, HOI5 is the one that just isn’t needed. HOI4 is so popular and still extremely fun, not to mention has a lot of complexity while still being simple enough to pick up and play at any time. EU4 crashed every time you opened the menu, had terrible performance and just looked outdated. HOI4 suffers none of these problems. The most recent DLC added so much to the game and was received so well, I just don’t see why we would be thinking about HOI5
Hearts of Iron IV will end up just like Payday 2, it will take at least a decade for a new game, the DLCs and playerbase just keep expanding
the game industry has changed. that's normal.
HOI4.1 will be total overhaul of hoi4 is coming maybe soon in my dreams atleast
I kinda want a longer spanning hoi5 with better economics as factories aren’t entirely representative of what the economt was. However i dont think we need a hoi5 till hoi4’s engine is really outdated as the current dlcs look really promising
honestly i'm just sick of the dlcs. just release a new game every so often. however this isnt a good business model, like you explained
Genuinely if HoI IV is abandoned I am just going to abandon gaming as a whole. I’m getting to a point in life where video games aren’t as enjoyable and Hearts of Iron IV to me is the most fun. A new game would mean new mechanics, relearning and it just doesn’t make sense because it’s not like this game is attracting a broad community like COD or Fortnite. I feel like I’m not alone in saying HoI IV will always be that game for me, and even if the DLC isn’t always top notch it’s still fun to have so much flavor. Starting over we would just have another “when is Italy getting updated” situation and that sounds miserable.
Ngl I don’t mind as long as we get more content for hoi4. It would do for another expansion for Japan.
Hoi4 is somewhere between the ck2 and eu4 era of paradox games and the imperator and vic3 era of paradox games - ie hoi5 feels too soon to release when the game is still running fine
To be fair, something similar happened with EU4. Granted, the increase over time wasn't as high as with HOI4, but it was a thing. It's only started reversing recently, and they've hit the practical limit of what they and modders can do on the engine within the confines of the game. I think we'll eventually see something similar with HOi4 five years or so from now once the engine Project Caesar is running on has matured and the kinks ironed out. Granted, HOI4 has a large amount of room to grow still, and what modders have been able to do with it is nothing short of incredible. Compare these games to their more troubled releases; Imperator, which they abandoned, and Victoria 3, which is far from the halcyon peak it fell from at release, where the overall trend is much the opposite of HOI4 and EUIV. Meanwhile, CK3 sits in the middle of the road, where it's seeing a very slow increase over time in average number of players, but not at the level of HOI4, nor has it peaked yet like EUIV.
We will need Hoi5 when hell freezes over
Good. We don't need a HOI5.
I mean, hoi4 is a great game, we don't need a hoi5, and all the flaws like economic system may be a bit bad, but over the time the game us untended to go it works just fine, i mean i would like heavily extended diplomacy system and ai going not by what it should do, loke France joining Allies, but by what focus it should do, so France doesn't think "Germany's dangerous right now, i should join allies", French ai thinks "i need to complete focus that joins me to allies now" is kind of flawed, but works fine and nothing is stopping Paradox releasing dlc that expands diplomacy.
Paradox will never make a new game after the disaster launch of Vicky 3 and Cities 2, its sad because i staunchly believe those games are good, but as you said with the new coke example, people just hate rather than try
why do we even need a hoi5
Vic2 also was a game that was enduring well over the years, yet they first ended the expansions and then left it.
IMO HOI5 can either come out as you said or be a totally different experience to HOI4, like Vic3 was to Vic2; I'm talking about way more complex management of military, politics and economics, all in all HOI3 with all it's flaws (which are unbearable for many) still has an active player-base
HOI5 will start development after EU5 releases (since Paradox games are built on top of each other).
While yes, HOI4 is very, very, very popular and will continue to stay that way for years to come, but at some point the engine will reach its limits because of the sheer amount of content but also its age. There are already signs of that happening in some areas of the game.
I predict that there'll be 3-5 dlcs before the devs start working on hoi5 and when they have something to show off, start writing devlogs about it.
I think Stellaris II kicks off first.
@lgmmrm oh true I forgot about stellaris but we'll see
I dont need hoi5 i need hoi4 to keep improving
I won't play a Hoi5 because I won't be able to buy it or have good mods to compensate for the lack of dlcs like I have with hoi4
HOI5 is definitely coming out as all the other games recieved sequels so why should HOI be any different.
HOI5 is gonna be a naval simulator🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm fine with that. I can play TNO until the end of time.
In my opinion, HOI4 is a game that doesn't know what it wants to be, and that's why it tries to do them all at the same time, but can't do any of them well.
For example, in this game, are we governing a state or the man at the head of the state (I say this because of Stalin's purges against us - the decisions of the head of state against the player - when we chose the Trotskyist path while playing Soviets) or we’re commanding the divisions on the front like a WW2 simulation.
Or in another example, is this game a sanbox game or a completely “railroaded” WW2 game? - I say this specifically for your video on diplomacy - (That's why I prefer mission trees like in EU4 instead of fully railroaded focus trees - as a sanbox fan -
In my opinion, HOI4 is a hybrid game where you can seem to allow for every type of gameplay but can't do any of them properly. If HOI5 is going to be made, its philosophy needs to be well-established. Maybe after that, if it's going to be changed, the economic system and factories should be change. Also not to mentioning the lag in the game after 1944-45.
Does there need to be a HoI5? I feel like the formula has already been perfected in HoI4.
who said we are waiting for hoi5
I don't mind.
Even if hoi5 is better i still will play hoi4 because of mods. Once mods are common on 5 i will play that more.
The problem is pdx doesn't always make a better game as a sequel. Victoria 3 vs 2 is a perfect example.
are you..? this is just paradox game formula
Only thing base hoi4 is missing is proper diplomacy and politics (no, I'm not coming fresh off your diplomacy video)
so what your saying is that HoI5 would be the Graveyard of Empires for HoI (laugh)
If they come out with a new engine. I bet that they re release hoi4, ck3, and Vic 3. This will be after eu5. They definitely have a new engine for eu5. No doubt. The engine is out of date. It’s 16 years old.
If hoi5 did come out I would want a new diplo system and economic system also I would want dlc to carry over from one to the next in csgo to cs2 fashion
Yet again true
If it weren't for the mods
I would have not bothered with hoi so long if it weren't for mods
The dlcs are not worth it
I even completely forgot that German atl-hidt was added in waking the tiger lol
But we actually have Hoi5 already! It's just not marketed as such. Hearts of Iron IV is nothing alike it's first releases to the point it coud be argued is not the same game today than 8 years ago, and I mean it quite literaly given not only changes to basic mecanics in thegame but also in how the code functions itself.
Well yeah but I think that's fine, I still like Hoi4 and don't think hoi5 is really needed, eventually it will die off like EU4 sort of did if you look at the steam charts, a lot of what I heard from people who stopped playing is that newer DLC's kept powercreep going and hoi4 will probably end up like that eventually
Wie geht GTA6 bevor HoI5😅😂
almost true, the problem is that paradox stopped releasing finished games, just like almost any other dev group outside some indie dev. when it was released in 2016, it was barely passed from alpha to beta, and sold at full price. than in the past years it is getting closer to an actual finished product. still several of the countries do not have any focus tree, and the rest is patched only to the potential of the original pile of stinking poop. so it will be finished at some point, and than hoi 5 will be put into production.
if there ever is a hoi5 i imagine its gonna be a similar launch to what Counter-Strike 2 was to CS:GO. Basically the same game but in a new engine or something, same focus trees, dlc/expansions carry over, maybe it runs a little better or worse, maybe it extends to the late 50s or something who knows.
hope hoi5 doesn't have focus trees
@worldwidewonders681 It's the only reason why hoi4 is best. It seems like you're soy soyjack that doesn't understand this. Play some TNO and TFR then you understand.
Hoi on unreal engine 🤑🤑 play till year 2100 no lag
Hearts of Unreal Engine would turn your computer into a f*kn pipe bomb brother. Unreal levels of unoptimized shaders.
Unsure Engine on how you even make a map game on unreal engine.
Hey i think a massive improvement you could do for your channel is stop with the abrupt endings. Something as simple as "thank you for watching"
I don't want Hoi5
I dont care if there is a hoi5 or not. All that matters is GTA6 is coming ^^
Honestly i'm tired of hoi4
I'm tired of the engine making late game and multiplayer miserable
I'm tired of Ai being terrible in every way
I'm tired of the terrible economy system
I don't want to play/create mods that will attempt to tackle those issues, usually with not much success
I haven't bought the newest DLC, partially because of its price, and also because i'm not looking forward to looking at a map for 3 hours again, only for it to get boring, messy and laggy in 1943
I wish hoi4 had some real competition other than random mobile games and Roblox
Hoi5 could be such a great improvement, but there is simply no reason for it to exist
the games unoptimized, multiplayer is unstable and all dlcs are overpriced, just look at civ 6 like wtf.
He'll yeah. Fix the multi-player tho.
hoi5 alreawdy exists. it's called blackice
I don't really think we need a hoi5 I think the game works well with community content along with dlcs I don't really see anything big that would justify another new game that cannot be done with dlcs or mods.
Hoi4 already cost like 300 dollars plus dlc so its ok
Absolutely fantastic video
If there is to be a hoi5 a new engine will be needed. That will take.time to make. Till then hoi4 still works. Look hownlong it took Ironclad to come oit with a sins of a solar empire 2.
Be patient people. Hoi4 isn't dead yet amd only mow starting to reach it limits.
you think that's bad, wait till you see what EUIV fans have been having to put up with lol
There is no hoi 5 beacuse we still buy these shitty DLCs