Imma share my opinion as a lesbian. Queerbaiting is valid when it’s about shows, movies, books, and things like that. But when REAL people are accused of queerbaiting, it’s fvcked up. Harry Styles, for example, was accused of queerbaiting just because he’s comfortable enough to dress “feminine.” We fight people by saying “clothes aren’t gendered! Anyone can wear any clothes no matter their sexuality or gender identity” and then people stereotype “feminine” men as gay just because they don’t dress like the stereotypical cishet male. In result, men aren’t able to feel comfortable dressing how they want to dress because they fear being perceived as something they aren’t. And then there’s Billie Eilish who simply said she loves women and got TONS of hate for it just because in the past she said she was straight. They act like you can’t be closeted. They act like you can’t figure out your sexuality when you’re older. We see people bash Billie for calling herself straight in the past and that cause many people to question themselves. To wonder if they’re valid since they were also calling themself straight at one point. Kit Connor. A teenager who was forced to come out to the public when he wasn’t ready just so people would stop investigating him. So he could live peacefully and the hate would stop. It all goes against what we are meant to believe. Our community is supposed to be a space for all. Whether you’re closeted or out, you should be safe. We bash people for outing others, but then people pressure others to come out just because they assume they’re secretly straight. We all want to come out when WE feel comfortable, but some pressure others to come out faster. We don’t like others putting labels on US, but then people go and put labels on strangers. They use harmful stereotypes to claim that someone is “queerbaiting”
100%. It was only supposed to criticize writers for baiting queer audiences with things they never planned to follow through with. Applying it to real people devalues it entirely and turns it into invasive toxicity that harms people
Exactly I can't stand when people get mad at Harry or Billie or any other celeb for queerbaiting. Maybe they're figuring things out, maybe they don't want to come out to the WHOLE WORLD. Maybe they just happen to fit stereotypes for queer people. But if they didn't like, say "I'm gay" and then date someone of the opposite gender or smth they're not queerbaiting for like, wearing something not traditionally accepted for their gender.
@@spartasbestman Exactly! Trying to apply queerbaiting to actual people does not work, because the concept was meant as a critique of media. Trying to say real people are "queerbaiting" is just a new way of applying stereotypes and potentially forcing people to out themselves. Also, a lot of people have pointed out that bi/pan people are easily targeted by "queerbaiting" accusations, because if someone dates the same gender and then decides to date someone of the opposite gender people accuse them of "faking being gay for attention". Like, come on y'all. We can't do this to our own community.
So true, we're at a point in western pop culture where we can fortunately chill tf out and let people live their lives as they want, hopefully not dogpile them in some way shape or form and see it as "support" or "wanting representation". Also as a lesbian I don't see what you being lesbian contributes to this topic but I figured that as a lesbian I should let you know that (:
People usually don't consider that the celebrities themselves might not know what their sexuality is. The public can often demand answers to questions that these celebrities don't know and aren't allowed to figure out for themselves without people trying to sway them one way or the other.
I remember Demi Lovato thought she might be nonbinary and went by they/them pronouns for a bit before realizing that she actually feels more comfortable with she/her and went back. And people were accusing her of queerbaiting just because she was experimenting with her gender identity. We should not dissuade celebrities from experimenting because then people wouldn’t want to come out because they’re worried about not being queer enough.
@@venustior oh, really? All the news sites I’ve seen said they went back to just she/her. Well I can’t trust the news to know all the details of some random person’s gender identity, especially when they don’t understand their own gender identity
omg fr it makes me furious when people say stuff like "oh harry styles is a queerbaiter bc he said hes unlabled but only dated girls so far" or "billie eilish is a queerbaiter bc she said she was queer but has only dated men" like just cause people are celebs doesn't mean they can't be still figuring things out. actually especially celebs who have had their relationships in the public eye their whole life. it's more complicated than these people think
also some people just don't like to have labels and sexuality can be fluid or change. especially if your still young you shouldn't have to pressure yourself into labels and just do whatever feels right to you
The Kit Connor situation made me really sad. I'm bi also, but married to a man. I've been active in queer spaces and activism but when I got into a relationship with my now-husband, my presence among LGTBQ+ people started being questioned, especially because I don't like, wear bi flag stuff or anything that would indicate what "I am." Nobody should feel obligated to have to come out, or qualify their existence.
Well yeah, when it's easy to hide making clear who you are is all the more important. It's like a person wants the bennies but not the flak. Like, we can argue all we want about not labeling and not stereotyping, but making it clear who someone is in a space where everyone has to come out again is common courtesy
so late, but I totally agree like there's so much biphobia, even in the community. I'm not bisexual, but I definitely see people get the idea that you can only be straight or gay. even with being masc or fem nowadays, like people will see an nb person and ask "oh are you masc or fem?" IT DOESN'T MATTER. the entire point and idea that we are supposed to be talking about is the fluidity and ambiguity of gender and sexuality ! and the fact that this is so visible in the LGBTQ community is worrying
@@luisostasuc8135Who cares about sexuality as long as they do their job properly and with passion? They are actors, thus chosen for being the best during auditions. And just because they are famous, they owe us nothing, we have no right to demand to label themselves as what ever bs exists right now. Especially when the, are so freaking young they probably don't know what they are in the first place. Especially when there are always i**ots complaining, no matter what you do. Who would want to come out as whatever anyway???
@@luisostasuc8135 But what if someone's not ready to come out yet. A person's sexuality is their business only. No lgbtq person is obliged to come out. Especially when you're 18 and still figuring out everything.
I am really annoyed at the people who think feminine men, feminine dressing men etc. are by default queer. That's so the opposite of fighting for your rights to express yourself. Just let people be people and accept how they want to dress themselves, or want to be called. But don't push them into it. Whether it's pushing someone into acting masculine because they were born with male parts or pushing someone into being trans (label) because they don't conform to gender stereotypes, both are freaking harmful.
Yes, in spite of the blaming of "society" and "conservatives" or religious people for all of the gay communities problems, I'd say in recent years, it is the LGBT advocates that are actually promoting stereotypes and rigid gender roles and to a much stronger degree than those other groups.
@@vlo4829 thats definitely an overexxageration lol. honestly you cant really blame people for not having gotten over their gender role brainrot even if theyre lgbt. it takes time. just because youre gay/trans doesnt mean ur not gonna hold any harmful views wrt gender. we are all just trying to figure things out
@@beelzebub6414 I do blame people who claim to advocate for one thing and promote the opposite, especially when it includes organizations and advocacy groups who specifically claim to "care" about LGBT people but advocate for things that can actually harm them and their causes. It's sort of the bare minimum to ask them not to harm the people they advocate for, if they care about the people and not just about creating new controversies to secure more funding...
Doesn't mean they aren't doing those things and it doesn't mean what they say isn't still perpetuating outdated views. I've seen countless of comments from people who claim to be feminists and progressives, but one comment I've read from one of these people in relation to gay relationships was "I love when they call the submissive bottom in the relationship the 'wife'. It's so cute." Wtf. It's clear what they are saying and suggesting, but not so clear to the commenter themselves. I've also seen countless lgbt and queer people saying certain characters MUST be gay because they're a butch woman or a feminine man, and they MUST be gay, there is no other solution!🤷🏽♀️ And honestly, there isn't much if an excuse. It's simply narrowminded and willfully ignorant. It's been said a million times that stereotyping people based on certain characteristics, is wrong. And they still choose to not listen.
If they LIE and say they are gay for ATTENTION, when they KNOW they are not, is the only way. Especially if they lead on actual gay people to make it more convincing. Good thing people don't do that. Other than that leave people alone. (OBVIOUSLY people who were just figuring things out don't count)
@@Nella_nova yea especially when they begin taking up all the spaces and shift the focus away from gay artists, but we’d never be sure if they are actually not a part of the community and we shouldn’t assume their sexuality either. So tbh I know I can’t say for all but the gays maybe should stop supporting or give other people attention JUST because they display gay behaviours. Sometimes it’s borderine obssession.
i wouldnt say it's only applicable to fiction because industries queerbait in real life consistently, but when talking about individual people specifically it is much harder for them to queerbait (aka the only situation where it would apply would be what @bastienx3420 described)
This is part of the reason I believe straight actors should be allowed to play gay characters (as long as the character isn’t blatantly problematic). If we don’t accept that straight people can play gay characters and vice versa, we just force people out of the closet and divide our own community.
It also has to be written well too. Too often do movies portray LGBTQ stereotypes and it just enforces the same stale image (E.g. The Gay Best Friend, The Feminine Diva, The Butch Masc), regardless of the actor's ability to make it work.
But then the conversation needs to have about how gay actors don’t get jobs they should theoretically be entitled to. Almost every single gay love tv show or movie I can think of that has reached any sort of popularity has been portrayed by two straight actors. Most of which are written with outdated beliefs or stereotypes, and if they’re adapted from books, aren’t made my gay men. So at that point, what about the story is authentic? Gay actors who don’t get roles in other films that aren’t explicitly gay are being robbed of the chance to make money because straight actors aren’t willing to back off of them
No I firmly believe queer actors should play queer characters. We’re not a costume. The same thing with cis people playing trans characters it’s so gross and offensive
I agree somewhat, but i feel like most straight actors playing gay characters use stereotypes. Like with andre braugher he does a good job not depending on gay stereotypes to act, and honestly it made it feel more genuine. Like i wasnt surprised when i found out eric stonestreet was straight but i was when andre braugher was
what really annoys me is when people say a celebrity is queerbaiting because they previously said they were straight. there's this thing called self discovery, you know. people can be wrong about themselves.
That's true, but you are talking about celebrities whose livlihood depend on them "staying relevant". In today's day and age, that means being some form of gay. It isn't unreasonable to question their motives, and there is also a lot of pressure in some circles (especially entertainment) to be gay. Now a days more than ever. Sure, not every celebrity that has come out has reverted back. But it has happened with people like Demi Lovato and most recently Ezra Miller. The problem is your presumption that someone coming out is the end of the journey and not a byproduct of other things. Just because someone comes out publically doesn't mean that was their authentic truth. It could be, but it is also just as likely they were made to believe or convinced that it was their truth. There are so many people, especially the younger ones who come out because it's the "in" thing to do. It's not because "straight isn't the default" or whatever. It's because trends happen, and unfortunately, something intensely personal and private as sexuality is, just so happens to be SUPER trendy right now. In previous generations, it was trendy to "experiment in college," and a lot of people did. Some stayed gay, and most didn't. It was a real thing. So it is 100% fair to doubt a celebrity coming out as being authentic for any number of reasons. I understand why it's so easy to believe coming out is the end of the journey if that was the case for you. But your experience is yours alone. You can't put that burden on others that they must come to the same conclusions you did. It's very human to do that, but it is also very wrong.
@@jdzspace33 - Celebrities being queer is not 'trendy' or 'relevant.' Is it used as clickbait? Absolutely. Are there some trash agents and managers who might try to get their client into a queer film or series because they *think* it's some hot trend? Sure. But coming out as queer doesn't advance anyone's career or suddenly make them relevant in any meaningful way. No straight dude is out there playing effeminate or cosy-ing up to male co-stars because he wants better roles, because queer people and fans of queer celebrities make up a *fraction* of America's overall straight demographic. What makes more sense: appealing to 100 queer people or 1,000,000 straights, especially when a looooot of straights are still outright alientated by any queer presence in their media? Name a barely known actor or singer who came out and shot to the mainstream A List on that alone. If you're an actor, it's in your best interest to appeal to the straights. Only very recently are we seeing out actors enter the scene with solid mainstream success instead of coming out later, and only very *very* recently are queer roles starting to pop up in mainstream films/tv. But the overall result of coming out is that you're overwhelmingly offered queer roles, and queer roles are muuuuuch fewer and father between than the ubiquitous straight roles. (This is partly why we should be encouraging straight people to also play queer roles and queer actors to also play straight roles. Everybody sticking to "their own lane" results in queer people working less, and the same five queer people starring in every single queer thing that ever happens (Matt Bomer/Kristen Stewart/Andrew Scott/Hunter Schafer/Dan Levy). Besides, start up a rule that says 'you must actually have whatever type or trait or whathave you that you're going to portray' and it gets very ridiculous very quickly.) In a world where Billie Eilish comes out and gets absolutely shat on because she had the audacity to label herself something else before hitting the ripe old age of *23,* where Kit Connors has to be bullied out of the closet because he was feeling oh-so-selfishly private about his sexuality at age *18,* where Halsey has to make a point to include at least one explicitly sapphic song on each of her albums otherwise people would conveniently forget she's bisexual, where everyone has forgotten Lady Gaga is bisexual, and where full on conspiracy theories about Taylor Swift's sexuality gain so much traction NYT publishes a full article on nothing but baseless speculation, it seems to me that the entire topic of gender and sexuality is currently a minefield for celebrities, not a trend. At least look at it from the opposite view. Would you say 'oh man, nobody talks about straight celebs anymore?' You really wouldn't. I don't think it's fair or healthy to suddenly justify suspicion at every celebrity who comes out simply because MAYBE one or two of them might have some deeply misguided and ignorant belief that queerness makes them cooler. (This would be extremely difficult to prove anyway. Anyone who comes out and then re-labels themselves straight is more likely discovering themselves than playing some cynical PR game that would only backfire and be stuck to their reputation forever.) 'Being relevant means being queer' could not be farther from the truth, but it does sound an awful lot like when white dude aspiring authors claim that you have to write about BIPOC or queer characters in order to get published these days. They think a little social progress equals so much progress that the oppressed are now the oppressors, or that the sexualities historically erased throughout history are somehow so embraced and trendy that straight people are pretending to come out for the sake of relevance. And you know who else suspects people who come out to be trend chasers? Transphobes. Republicans. Boomers. Let's maybe not help them out by treating celebrities--who are still people at the end of the day--the same way they treat us.
@@jdzspace33 we cannot assume that everyone who comes out has other motives. Also Demi still goes by they/them pronouns. People are allowed to change and I severely doubt any celebrity is gaining fame from fake coming out.
@aeas09 with celebrities, it's about starting relevant. And yes, coming out does keep them relevant for at least a little while. We are at a point where even when regular people come out, it's hard to say if it's real or if they see caught up in the trend. There are a lot of social benefits to coming out right now, after all. So you have that, plus money is involved when it comes to celebrities. I don't want to day we should assume everyone is not genuine, but it is more likely than not
@@jdzspace33 i literally don't think that there are benefits to coming out and even so then what? We ask people to prove that they're queer? You just have to accept people. Thats it no questioning no speculation nothing just take their word. Yes im sure someone will lie but we cannot assume that.
1:19 “My little Timmy can’t go to school without hearing a grindr notification!” “Well maybe you should take away little Timmy’s cell phone, all the notifications he gets are disturbing his classmates!”
i love how in b99, captain holt casually said "my husband' and no one cared. or when rosa came out everyone was so supportive and no one's personality has changed. imo, b99 is one of the best representations of queer people. no queer baiting, natural.
@@elrodtherocker honestly I hate how so many shows are going down the woke route, and this is coming from a liberal lol. I don’t need EVERY a character to be fruity or identify as an attack helicopter 💀 That being said, if they’re gonna purposefully troll us with two characters of the same gender that have obvious chemistry and pull a “and they were roommates!” On us, that’s hella weird. They gotta find an inbetween.
The biggest queerbaiting i can think of is pitch perfect, they knew majority of the audience wanted to see Chloe and Beca together and even film an ending where they got together, both actresses wanted their characters together but Chloe ends with a random man and Beca is insinuated to end up with the other guy. But it's tricky to attribute queerbaiting to normal people.
Kinda reminds me of Star Wars. I mean, it wasn’t queerbaiting. But Poe and Finn had so much chemistry that many fans and even the actors wanted them to end up together. But of course Disney had to shoehorn in a romance between Poe and some chick we’d never met before in episode 9 to make absolutely sure everyone understood that Poe is definitely not gay. And then they advertised the movie having a kiss between two women, celebrated their own progressiveness, until it turned out that it was just two seconds between two random characters we had no connection two, placed conveniently so they could just cut it out in homophobic countries. Real revolutionary, Disney. You solved homophobia… not. I mean, that entire movie was bad, but those two things especially annoyed me.
the worst part of this was the marketing for the third movie where they were hanging a bechloe kiss over the queer audience's head. absolutely terrible.
queerbaiting is such a funny subject and its so confusing sometimes how much it involves. Its also very misunderstood by straight people and the gay community too
My problem with it is when people use it as a means to force someone into coming out. Like, people don't owe you their sexuality just for the sake of representation.
Is so complex, cuz like people aré get about a straight people acting gays but we don't have much movies or TV shows to see a querer character, so any kinds of media for representation Is good cuz Is another space to see our selfs but If the actors who got that role Is not openly queer or even Is not queer at all Is just another straight person "taking that Role from a queer actor" but that also boxes queer actors to only playing queer roles. And that just adds to the stigma of being queer. To me any kind of representantion Is good even Is the actors arent gay themselfs.
@@dianagoenaga7263yeah what happened to Kit Connor was terrible. Coming out and self acceptance doesnt happen immediately and the way so many people missed the point of Nicks arc when they put all that pressure on Kit to come out. I understand wanting representation but lets not force real life people to become that representation for us. They are just as flawed as any normal person so its unfair to expect them to live up to a certain standard of being queer.
@@victoredwardo9485I think that’s why the whole “only queer actors can play queer characters” thing isn’t true and dangerous. Instead we really should focus on queer writers telling queer stories. Not that that approach doesn’t have its problems
People who talk about "queerbaiting" ignore the weird and perverse pressure put on straight actors or characters to act out their gay fantasies. Often people say "queerbaiting" when the truth is, they're actually being given FANSERVICE. Other times, people say "queerbaiting" when a deep friendship is being established. There is a lot of projection there. People WANT to see certain actors getting gay together, but that doesn't make it "queerbaiting" when the actors are shown together and don't bone...
I will never understand the hypocrisy of what Kit went through, like he played a confused bi teenager and people are coming at him so violently when he is a teen too ? And even if he wasn't a kid, that's not our business. I'm pretty sure asking for someone's sexuality is forbidden, so why would it be different for public figures? Also, the actor who plays Darcy is non-binary yet their character is a girl but no one got mad about it because it's not that deep
Literally. It’s a CHARACTER. If someone is playing a murderous villain, they’re not ACTUALLY a murderous villain irl. The whole point is to be someone you’re not in a storyline that’s fictional.
@@puppydogs68I thi k we all realize that lol the point is of having more gay ppl getting representation through the film industry not just the story line but also the actor themselves , it's nuanced espically when it comes to trans characters in not gonna lie I'm gonna be pro hiring trans actors because of how little roles they get .
@@yassine8935 this is true, and as a person of color who has watched half-white half-Black actors get biracial roles or general roles that do not include whiteness, this is particularly annoying. But with sexuality and gender, it's far trickier, because while it's a shame cishets do take away roles that could go to trans and gay people instead, it's really risky to outcry someone whose sexuality we're unsure of is queerbaiting. We can't possibly know what they're going through or whether they even want to come out. Becky Abertalli of Love, Simon herself wrote about how coming out didn't feel empowering at all because she was forced to due to backlash of her supposedly being a straight woman benefiting from writing about a gay couple. If you just look up "celebrities who were forced to come out" and the list is _long._
I literally cried in public when I saw Kit Connor’s tweet. I’m bisexual and had all the time I needed to feel comfortable enough to come out. I cannot imagine feeling forced to come out at such a young age. It’s heartbreaking. 😢
No, bc i used to fight ppl online defending Kit Connor, but ppl still continued til he finally came out(forcefully). I remembered crying when i found out....
I’m 1000% straight. No doubt in my mind. Questioned it before to see for sure I am. But I’m very much a tomboy. I enjoy wearing a lot of boyish things and I have a very “boyish” “little man” nature. Bc of this people assume I’m lesbian or when they know I’m straight the call me a pick me for minding my own business and liking what I like. These stereotypes and internet pressure and labeling are doing much more harm than good. I’m free and I won’t be told what to do or who to be by anyone but myself (Ofc u should be open to constructive criticism too)
Absolutely. I’m with you there. It’s literally all just enforcing strict gender binaries. It’s no different when it a gay person calls a tomboy a queerbaiter, than when a straight bro calls a guy gay fro wearing pink. It’s all just putting people in boxes and telling us what we can’t be
@@EdieG1 exactly! This inclusivity narrative is having the exact opposite effect creating stronger division between what a person is “allowed” to be. Ppl need to quit the gatekeeping Fr
During the Harry Styles segmint- my opinion is that straight guys can be in touch of their feminine side just like how straight girls in tv shows that are in touch with their masculine side. Y'all fight for equality then take it back the next second.
I always just thought Harry was desperate for attention. Not "queerbaiting", but also not being "true to himself". Just getting publicity in a lame way.
@@dolphinsfann1991 It isn't just about privasy. Labels are just useless and sexuality is much more flexible. No need to put everything in a category I think Harry Styles and others are just ignoring this western obsession.
Harry is just not interested in letting the media know his sexuality. He is more interested in being himself and encouraging everyone else to be themselves as well. He believes that people should not have to label themselves if they don't want to and that they should just express themselves however they feel right.
I remember people trying to cancel Billie eilish for her music video. I was so influenced by these opinions that I myself thought it was weird of her to act like that. Now that she basically came out I feel embarrassed for all those people including myself... And wish people could shut up and mind their own business
I think it's better in hindsight but it still feels weird to me for her to make a song where literally nobody could have guessed what it was actually about because the lyrics are so unambiguous. People should still mind their own business, and when i say that i think it's weird i mean that i actually think it's just strange
@@Hotsingesl are you refering to "lost cause"? cause if so, how are the lyrics ambiguous? it's a song where she realises she could do so much better than a person she used to be with. how could you not guess what it was "actually about"? i feel like people really wanted her to be queer, kept pushing until she did something slightly different, and then they descended onto her calling her a queerbaiter. as a queer person myself it was jarring to see how many people were convinved a real person could do it.
mentioning love simon reminded me of the fact that people bullied love simon's writer into coming out as bisexual. coming out is such a personal thing for so many queer people and forcing it out of them's just so... inconsiderate.
interviewer: whats your ideal type? yoohyeon: hardworking people ☺️ interviewer: yoohyeon likes hardworking men yoohyeon: i said people, all kinds of people 🥰🥰✨
2:54 Exactly! It's almost like they're keeping things just gay enough to attract LGBTQ+ viewers, but just straight enough not to dissuade the homophobes.
True! It's like either be a show with queer caracters or don't. But at the same time i feel bad for the shows that have corporates that will not alow it even if the show makers want to. I just hope that in the future there will be shows with good and diverse caracters and people who are kinder and less forceful : /
@@Acorn905 the forcefulness is the worst part to me. It comes across as fake and transparent and does nothing to encourage relatedness between people in the real world.
It's not "homophobes" or "conservatives": Straight people as a whole are simply less interested in gay relationships than gay people. This bothers gay advocates, but it shouldn't. It should just be accepted. It would be WEIRD if straight audiences wanted to see gay media at the same or higher level than gay audiences. Why is something so obvious so hard to accept? Why mislabel it as "homophobic"? Gay media is generally best when it's niche. The BEGGING by gay advocates to be in mainstream stuff followed by the whining when the content is "not focused enough on the gays" is just silly.
I honestly disagree. People see what they want to see. I never saw Destiel doing anything that would make it seem like they were into each other until like the last season because the fans wanted it. Yes, there were jokes, and yes, Cas had a special connection with Dean, but all those interactions are normal, but whenever men show emotion towards one another they are presumed gay apparently, like there can't ever be emotional male friendships. They care deeply about each other and they are one big family. The show was never about romantic love, it was always about family and that deep bond between people that go through extreme hardship together, but people love to ship characters and thus read too much into the interactions. I am the first person to watch romance shows and movies, but this show was never about that, and it infuriates me that Destiel is the ONLY thing talked about when Supernatural is mentioned when it is a truly beautiful and heartbreaking family story with some badass characters and supernatural coolness.
@@z1tkvn I understand where you’re coming from but I’m not just talking about the show. The actors and creators have hinted numerous times that Dean and Cass’s relationship was the of a more romantic sense. While it is sad that everyone only talks about destiel I understand why they do. Even if it’s not in a romantic sense their bond is a large part of the plot, so it’s obviously going to be mentioned a lot. They talk about destiel as much as they talk about Sam and Dean’s relationship. There are some fans out there that take it too far but that’s in every fandom, so I don’t think they really count.
@@1INNABILLIONN Fair point, I don't usually watch what any showrunner has to say about the characters and/or plot if it is not in the show because it seems kind of pointless if it's not canon in the show itself, so I did not see anything the showrunners have said about it. However, I watched a lot of interviews with J2 and I also never got the impression they were trying to insinuate that Destiel is romantic, maybe only Misha. Also, of course it's important to talk about Destiel's bond, it is part of the plot, but people talk about it way more as an isolated romance than its importance for the plot and definitely way more than Sam and Dean's brotherly bond, at least from my experience.
@@z1tkvn Yeah, the fans tend to overdo it with their shipping. It’s kinda annoying, but there are interviews where they’ve been asked questions about destiel (because even I can tell that’s what most fans talk about, even though it is important it can be intense ((but I also think they do that because so much about Cass and Deans relationship was left out and fans where obsessed over their questionable relationship))) and the actors have said suggestive answers. They don’t do it as much anymore since the destiel shipper have gotten intense over the years, especially after the epilogue. Although I do agree with your og point!! It makes a lot of sense and I don’t necessarily only view Cass and Dean’s relationship as romantic but more as an intensely deep bond only they can comprehend. (I hope this made sense haha I kind of started rambling at the end)
Tbh I don’t really have a problem with straight people playing gay roles. I would rather not, but if they play the role right, are respectful, don’t stereotype, and don’t do anything else disrespectful. I think it’s fine.
My main problem though is when companies use straight actors to play lgbt roles because they don’t want to use actual lgbt actors but they still want to profit off of the lgbtq+ community.
@@Jane-ow7srI mean they could play the part badly on their own accord, but if they do you're right that it would most likely be bad direction and not due to their choice it's usually the directors that cause stuff like that to happen
@@FloralPanicTrue they can. Just like Henry Cavill left the show the Witcher because the show runners completely ruined the story and they just recasted the next person. Unless all actors agree to not play the role someone else is just going to do it. Not saying that refusing to go to a casting because a character is written badly is bad, it is still good. But it’s not going to have a big effect. There are too many aspiring actors and actresses who just want to pay the bills.
The thing with kit Connor feels like part of the whole fetishisation and obsession with mlm couples. Reminds me of when fans were digging for proof that members of 1D or Dan and Phil were queer just so it fit what they wanted to see whether it was true or not
This is one of the reasons why I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer so much. It came out in the 90s, and had a bisexual main character in a same sex relationship for 3 seasons. The best part is, her love interest became a main character too! There was also a canonically gay side character that appeared in the earlier seasons as well. Such a great show, never queerbaited.
Not that I disagree with you at all because I fully agree what happened to Kit was messed up af and should never have happened, but.. I feel a little confused rn 'cause aren't people generally/technically considered adults at 18 (i.e. no longer minors)? I mean I guess I just don't quite get why he felt need to mention he was 18..??? Not that it matters of course as it doesn't change my opinion of him or what happened to him, but still... it's a small and slightly bemusing source of confusion to me... lol 😅😅😅
@@ChocolateWhispersxto me I think it's valid because many queer kids and adults even now don't figure out their sexuality until later because of comphet or internalized homophobia. Regardless, being forced to come out before you're ready is messed up and horrible no matter how old you are
he emphasized 18 bc in the grand scheme of things (there are people who figure this shit out at like 35+) 18 is A BABY. you were literally just a minor. legally you can go to war, sure, but you still can't even drink, and everyone knows you aren't done developing.
@@ChocolateWhispersx adult or not 18 is still very young. hell even 21 is still so young. most people don't fully know themselves until later in life, some even in their 40s
Teen Wolf was honestly one of the worst at this. Stiles was teased to be bi for literally the entire show and there were multiple teases that were very much in your face and they literally never did anything with it. And the show had gay characters so it was just really bizarre to see this specific character get the "ooooo is he bisexual" for like 6 freaking seasons only for it to literally be like idk
I feel like Hemlock Grove was super similar to that too, tbh. In season 1 one of them literally checks the other's bare ass out, they have a ton of sexual tension for the entire show, and then the only payoff we ever got was a throwaway 3way in the last season. I think that's the only time I've come across queerbaiting like, so overt that it actually pissed me off.
@christianherrera8359 wouldn't it be grooming if Stiles and Derek got together. The only people that are guys, I can see style with is Danny or a original male character.
i instantly though about teen wolf, back then when it was still ongoing, i started watching it because of all the arts i thought sterek was actually a couple only to be dumbfounded lmao
No fr remember when the actors for Stiles and Derek literally made a video, on a SHIP, hugging and cuddling while asking fans to vote for Teen Wolf for this award show for "more of this"
People accuse others of “Queerbating” when it’s just their inability to separate personality and sexuality. At the end of the day the gender you are attracted to has nothing to do with what hobbies you like or how you act and the amount of people who confuse the two and just shove stereotypes down everyone’s throats who fit into them, putting themselves and the others into a box, is crazy
Hi from Russia, where btw passed a law recognizing LGBT people as an “extremist organization". And for me as teenage queer girl who can't "just run away" because of the age it is really painful to watch this video 😢 like we can't even exist in our own country, what to say about queerbaitig
жиза, я тоже из россии, из за таких законов хочется свалить куда нибудь заграницу, но мне еще нет 18 да и после 18 это будет сложно сделать, так что как нибудь надо выживать тут ахах😓
The Harry Styles thing is so confusing to me, because I feel like especially in the LGBTQAI+ Community a lot of people (myself included) are against/do not enjoy gender norms and talking about pushing the gender norm. Like if a dude likes to wear dresses, that is just that. It shouldn't make you assume something about his sexuality or gender identity. I feel like people should have the choice to express themself how they want, without being instantly labeled as something, that they might not even be or do not feel comfortable talking about.
RIGHT though... the 'it's all in your head, you're reading too much into this' stuff really fucking hurt. A) It treated us like we were idiots. As if my many years of actual media literacy counted for nothing. I was like 'no this is being framed as a love story, they are using tropes, shots, dialogue, it's all set up deliberately to evoke the ideas that have been evoked in love stories historically'. I hated saying 'if one of them were a woman you'd see it immediately' - because it felt cheap, but it was the only way I felt I could make myself understood. B) Then it made us look obsessed with the idea of gay kissing?? Like people would say 'can't you just let people be friends? what's wrong with you?' Like I was the weirdo. I am old school fandom/tumblr. I was in the first wave of Superwholock (though not as a shipper), and I'm thrilled now that the kids have Our Flag Means Death/Good Omens/What We Do in the Shadows as the new big fandom staples. When characters are overtly queer THROUGHOUT those shows. It isn't just crumbs any more. It makes me want to cry I'm so happy.
@@PuellaMagiMamiI would. I don't like that every male/female friendship will turn sexual or romantic. I like seeing all people just be friends, whether that's between people who could theoretically be attracted to each other or not. Then again, I am ace. Soooo.... Still wish fulfillment lol
I feel honestly amazed at how you're a youtuber, an actor and a nurse all at the same time. I just think it's really cool. On the topic of queer baiting, as another kpop fan, I think most of us don't mind it because it's usually the companies' faults, and we all know kpop stans hate the compabies with a passion. At the same time, we find comfort in seeing the idols express that they might be queer in small ways, like you said, since actually coming out would probably be career suicide. I still hope one day this changes, and idols can freely come out and still be supported by the general public.
I was hoping to find a comment like this here about kpop companies being the real issue in association of idols and queer baiting. I agree that queerbaiting should only be a term for fictional characters, BUT in the quest for money companies evolve the baiting tactics. In the case of kpop encouraging skinship and similar types of behaviors to attract fans for duo projects for profits sake. Should kpop companies be this reckless? No. But I feel we all know most KPOP companies are motivated by profits. However at the same time it could also actually help as an outlet for idols who aren't sure of their sexual identity in exploring things under a "controlled" environment. If they figure something about themselves cool, if not it's just how corporations have ran for years and years at this point. Queerbaiting in kpop in itself is such a rabbit hole, but overall I think it can apply to the industry but that doesn't also mean that it is all bad for existing. On another note 200% agree on the mind blown at thinking Emily is this talented.What a legend.
I think the most like “iconic” queerbaiting was Pitch Perfect, but the recent one that comes to mind was The School for Good and Evil. The two female main characters literally share true love’s kiss and talk about running away together. The large majority of the fandom assumed they’d eventually get together until in the very last book, the author changed the plot to make them twin sisters and married them off to side character guys.
When I read the third book I felt so disgusted with myself for shipping them that I had to stop reading the saga. I eventually came back but it wasn't the same.
I read this one when I was a young kid, tried to go back to read it recently with the movie release cause of nostalgia (I’m 22). The amount of things I never noticed were wrong with it back then is crazy. I remember thinking back then they’d be together, and was confused even as a kid when I didn’t even know about the LGBTQ+ community yet 😭 Also the p*dophilia in the first book with that principal too 😭😭
adding to the kpop queerbaiting discussion, it reminds me of holland, one of the only openly gay idols in the industry. he went through quite a lot of struggles being a queer person in a conservative country like south korea, he got outed by his close friend in middle school causing him to get horribly harassed (he was once dragged around the school with a rope tied around his neck, it is actually disgusting what happened to him), his debut mv was labelled 17+ because two men kissed in it (meanwhile if it was a straight couple, the mv would be completely fine,,,), he received lots of hate (still does to this day), and more recently, in may last year, he was walking around the streets of south korea when he got punched by someone and got called a 'dirty gay'. so i totally get why some idols who may be queer dont feel comfortable enough to come out to the public. while south korea's newer generation is more open minded, there are still many people in older generations who find it weird and disgusting, and teach their kids this mindset too. just remember, nobody knows the sexuality of an idol unless they explicitly say it, and it is never our business to know either.
@@tangerinu_uyep, just recently on a Variety interview. "I’m physically attracted to them [women]. But I’m also so intimidated by them and their beauty and their presence.” Though this isn't really a surprise as she's expressed attraction to various women and has clowned the queerbaiting allegations several times over social media lol Edit: she just posted on Instagram with the caption "I like boys and girls leave me alone about it please literally who cares"
i hate the idea that we need to label ourselves to have our romantic/sexual preferences validated. i’m not comfortable putting myself into any category, idk why but that’s just how it is for me
When people started to think that Elsa would have a gf, I got kinda upset. Nothing wrong with gayness, I'm lesbian myself, but Elsa's whole persona was being an independent, possibly aromantic self. Just like Anna doing able to do stuff with no powers.
Your skit inspired me, Emily: I think the toxic version should be called "closet raiding." I still feel so bad for that sweet kid from Heartstopper; he was definitely a closet raiding victim. As for Harry Styles, I find his dress-wearing to be way more masculine than the overblown giant muscles that straight guys fanboy over and fantasize about having. Shows he has his own mind and opinions. He's not the first--see Alice Cooper--but I love that they both have that "there's nothing shameful about femininity" attitude. Beautiful. Also--kilts are sexy as hell.
the queerbaiting in mean girls is something i never saw coming. like Janis was obviously gay or she got a lot of gay stereotypes but she ended up heterosexual. 😢 edit: i get that it wasn’t queerbaiting because of the homophobia and normalness of gay stereotypes thanks for clarifying
Couldn't agree more, queerbaiting in media (movies, series etc) is a real problem, like, the ultimate exploitation of pink money, but it's just messed up when applied to real people.. the community (not everyone, ofc) literally does what we (should) fight against: question people's sexualities, criticizes gender expression and pushes people out of the closet. Come on folks, we're better than that!
For Kit, that was definitely shitty. But it’s not a bad thing to consider the fact some ppl use this as fan service/to gain traction. Just using queerness for their career (more so in boy/girl groups)
@@ajakakakak Yes, ofc. Fanservice is also very problematic, right? But it's different from what I was referring to as "queerbaiting" (I was talking about kit, billie and harry styles kind of cases, like she said in the video). Tho fanservice is a whole other thing that we should definitely talk about too, it's quite serious indeed
but they can tho? like those straight guys on tiktok making it look like they’re about to kiss each other only to pull away and laugh at the camera? like its not tht deep i suppose but it’s still technically queer baiting.
@@JunPhantomI mean they are also kinda "not real" i mean yes they exist but everything they post is an act, its still fiction in a way. the dude could be actually gay or not and it wouldn't matter
@@joTheBonas if someone is going out of their way to act or make videos that imply themselves of homoeroticism while not being attracted to the same sex that is indeed queer baiting. and it’s not fictional people in books and tv shows doing this, it’s real living breathing functioning individuals who have the capacity to just not do it. besides fiction is used to imitate real life so wouldn’t that make imitating lgbtq+ relationships for profit kinda icky?
literally an hour after this video was posted i saw a video on twitter of billie eilish confirming she was queer but she "thought everyone already knew" and coming out was never a big deal to her
yeah but there was always a group of people that would say "we dont know! we shouldn't assume until she publicly makes an official statement about her sexuality!" and they'd refer me to the clip of her at 14 saying she's straight as a ruler lmao. people are weird idk
@@swimsvg1855 yeah exactly and thats fair, personally i knew when i was fairly young tbh. 11 was when i figured out i was bi, thanks to a girl there that was also bi lol
Thank you for explaining queer baiting to this 51yo straight woman. I’m old enough now to officially be confused. I subscribed because I need Millennials and Gen Z to explain things to me. ❤
I wanna share my opinion as a lesbian nb: Queerbaiting to me is valid only in a fictional context: with books, shows, movies. It does not extend to REAL PEOPLE. Sexuality is fluid in it of itself, so I find it gross that people have said actors are “queerbaiting” to the point where they were forced to come out. (The bi mc from Heartstopper.) That shit is unacceptable. No person should be forced out of the closet. Second off, I also think about when people said Harry Styles “queerbaited” for wearing dresses? Like no. Anyone no matter their birthsex should be allowed to wear dresses, just because he was comfortable enough to dress “feminine.” Like no one needs to have a specific label too. Some ppl forget that no one likes having a label forced onto themselves either. What grosses me out about the Harry styles situation is that despite how the queer community has fought and is still continuing to fight for queer people regardless of gender and or sexual identity to where whatever clothing they want regardless of it’s “gendered norms” and then proceed to stereotype Harry as a gay man because he dressed a bit “feminine”- like gross. Utterly gross. Any person should feel free to dress how they want without the fear of being stereotyped. All in all, I think it’s awesome that Harry Styles dresses in a way that most men might not (in the us), but that’s NOT a reason to push labels onto him. I know plenty of queer people who would feel uncomfortable with forced labels, and as a queer person myself, I also would. So for the people who say that these irl people are “queerbaiting” just think about your identities, and how you would feel if someone forcefully labeled you. All in all hope both queer and straight folks understand what I meant. Much love 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️❤️
I was one of those people watching stuff for gay subtext back in the nineties! I used to watch old films, because my library tended to have a sleuth of ‘golden age’ films on VHS, for some reason. So I would watch movies like victim, the children’s hour, and rebel without a cause. My parents weren’t homophobic, but I didn’t want to be watching ‘obvious’ gay movies all the time. I’ll never forget going to see brokeback mountain when it came out. I saw it I think a few days after it came out, but the thing was, nobody knew it was gay. It was initially advertised as a typical cowboy movie about two friends. I didn’t even want to see it but my friends dragged me along because we had nothing else to do. I was pleasantly surprised to see some representation on the big screen!
My father thought I was gay, I think he was really let down once it became clear that I wasn’t because he couldn’t virtue signal about having a gay kid anymore..
They probably are less likely to hire gay & trans people. Im trans and i noticed a huge difference in replies when i started applying to jobs without telling them that im trans cuz no one would know if i dont tell them. edit: atleast where i live cuz i live in the south 🤮
Wait wtf? How are they allowed to do that? How is that even professional? Unless your job is involved in work around dating/sex, how does your sexuality come into play in your work?!?
When I tell you that younger lesbian me ATE UP the monster mv!! Like I don’t give a shit if they are gay or not but it was just a great music video and song to the point where it doesn’t matter 🤷🏽♀️
1:05 I agree that lgbt characters and plots are becoming more mainstream but i wish we had so much more. And most of the time, our representation is so toxic or just gets very limited screentime
It’s not a classic gay movie if one (or both) people in the main couple doesn’t: 1. Die of AIDS. 2. Go on to marry people of the opposite sex - abandoning love and living in misery. 3. Going off to war and die. 4. Or kill themselves cause they think they’ll never be happy. You know, wholesome stuff 😊
I never understood why people force celebrities to come out. especially in media like heartstopper which have points about no one owing anyone their sexuality why fans just fixate on it. Sure it's nicer for queer people to play queer roles so the representation is genuine but it should never come at the expense of celebrities' privacy.
its like gay blackface. especially when there is no reason not to hire a gay actor but nah. then people rely on the excuse of "but its their job to act" yeah just somehow the actually gay actors end up in shitty background roles now dont they. the only way we are even getting those gay characters is only if straight people play them.
I want to add some older queer romantic comedies: The Wedding Banquet, Saving Face, But I'm a Cheerleader. I think Wedding Banquet and Saving Face are often ignored/forgotten because the leads are Asian-Americans. Also can't forget Rent, which was also very impactful on little queer me.
So true!!! It's something common in book communities too - in some ways the #ownvoices tag for writers with regard to queerness was helpful for trying to spread visibility ("I'm gay so I wrote a gay main character so my book is #ownvoices), but it also forces people to sometimes out themselves in the way Kit had to. Not exactly the same but it's still this pressure to label things
alr, this relates to a topic that is controversial in the thai bl community and ik alot of people have different takes but i will talk abt this one show called "bad buddy" in which the two main actors are (mostly) straight, and that show was fucking amazing. It was something the thai bl community NEVER saw before and thats why people are so obsessed with it till this day. nanon, one of the main actors who was playing pran was accused of queer-baiting since it was his very first gay show that he acted in and he got super famous from it, people thought he was queer-baiting bc of the amazing fan-service him and his stage partner ohm did to promote the show and to increase popularity for the both of them. ohm alr acted in 4 bls before coming to the release of bbs (bad buddy the series) so people didnt come for him even though he is most likely straight but im not one to assume someones sexuality. nanon though, literally said himself that he is straight on an interview where they were asking abt lgbtq+ stuff, and said how "at first when i was younger, i thought it was a little weird but now as im growing older i understand that it isnt and its normal love is love etc.." or something along the lines of that, and people GOT HEATED. and i mean HEATED. like they scribbled nanons face from posters and stuff bc they thought he was queer-baiting, and he wasnt. we all have thought that some things were weird when we were younger and now have grown up to know that it isnt. he was being honest and i respect him for that. and besides, theyre arguemnt isnt even true bc before the promotion of bbs, he had always acted in straight romances or no romances at all. just bc he's doing fanservice for his show doesnt mean his queer-baiting, he just wants fans to be exicted. this is something any person would have common knowledge of, right? not for the proshippers/fetishizers, made this entire deal and i was awake at 2am to defend nanon from idiotic "fans"....
I was scared of this video at first because it’s a heated topic but I AGREEE omg so much, I don’t think real people can queer bait, people might want to explore themselves but then the whole lgbtq community will attack them, shouldn’t it support them…also can’t you express your self in a different way or chose to be NOTHNG at all, not wanting to be labeled….just because you want to confirm your stereotypes … and with movies or media productions in general I believe it’s all was important to have the group be apart of the production or have been apart at some stages for ex lgbtq or destabilty movies if you have persons who represent that group they can bring the real experience
Also something that often comes up as queerbaiting is people who don't have a label. They are often accused of queerbaiting or wanting to feel special but actually being straight, while that shows how much people (unconscious) see being hetero as the norm. Like "If you do not EXPLICITLY state you have a queer label, you are straight" Harry Styles for example has stated he doesn't care for labels and that his sexuality is no ones business, therefore hes unlabelled and not hetero. hes simply unlabelled.
the only time i have ever claimed that a real person is queerbaiting is when this girl from my school openly admitted that she would flirt with girls to the point of them catching feelings, and then reject them because she’s straight. she really sucks 😭
The skits in this were so fucking funny, the first one had me howling. Love this, there were a lot of great points and you handled the nuance that goes into this rather well :), the skits were the cherry on top.
There is such a big fetishization of mlm, its honestly a huge part of queerbaiting now i feel like that a man dare show any intimacy that isnt romantic or sexual as he's now queerbaiting.
It's great of the progress some countries have made some people are still stuck in the 1800s we still have a long eay to go we still have little or no representation for asexuality or non binary love your videos emily they are always interesting and entertaining
Queerbaiting, is so big among like the bl manga adapted chinese shows; like untamed , Gurdian, or word of honor. I literally love these shows and eat up all the crums of "romance". These shows I will take crums without complain because of the chinese censorship. You should do a video about thai bl show actors who are homophobic. I don't see anything wrong with str8 actors playing gay roles but like these actors playing gay roles while hating gay individuals just doesn't sit right.
Your points contrast each other. Straight men who play gay roles never take the time to understand what it’s like to be gay and take gay roles for the check. And yet it takes someone being outwardly homophobic for them to be called out for it
@@oublie-moi uhh they probably meant it's queerbaiting because the show don't explicitly show the romance or gay part due to heavy censorship in china. So it's just another corporate rainbow. I'm just guessing though. I don't watch the show lol
I don’t think the term queerbaiting applies when the source material is quite literally gay, and the adaptation is forced to remove direct reference because of government censorship laws. The fact that the adaptation has no choice but to do so makes it a completely different case than media that most definitely can explicitly say so and so is lgbtq+ but chooses not to.
thuis was such a good video. you touched on so many of my own experiences in regards to queerbaiting. its nice you've decided to talk abt this bcuz queerbaiting is a small sector of an already small community, but yet can heavily influence how alot of us think we are meant to percieve outselves. thanks for this babe !!1
Ive recently found your work after a few years of enjoying commentary content. I love the pacing of your videos and the skits you include! Keep up the amazing work. Much love (platonically) ❤
If i am being honest the *"I simply do not consume boy group content"* comment made me feel more represented then all the queerbate I've consumed this year.
Absolutely loved this video! Thanks for talking about it! Also... is anyone going to mention how the kpop part is just magically the most watched part and proves her point of us (Queer-people) despretly watching any crumb of media you give to us 😅
I agree with everything that you said about the kpop part. I’m a huge Fearnot, and what makes me very happy as a bisexual fan is how Yunjin and Sakura were able to publicly express their support to the LGBT community, I remember seeing a video of a fanboy, who went to their fansign, thanking Yunjin for her Twitter post about pride month, and Sakura talked in a interview something that made me very happy as a lgbt fan, she said that she wanted idols to be a role model for people and if Le Sserafim ever sings a love song she wanted it to be about an universal love, and seeing idols so big like Yunjin and specially Sakura talking about this is very comforting to me. Taking the part where you mentioned the “coming out in a subtle way” it reminded a lot about Kazuha, she was asked about her ideal type and her answer was “Woman? Or men?”, she also talked about her ideal type of woman, not to mention once that she said that her favorite subject in school was history because she had a very pretty female teacher, I mean, if she really is lgbt, she unfortunately can not say it, but we definitely understand what she’s trying to say with those little things
HahahaAAAHHH! You saying: "I think I should also get it, because I am sexy, cool and perhaps even talented?!" with guitar playing background and a questioning facial expression was absolutely tearing me up! HahahaAAAHHH!
I worked on the Love, Simon movie! I was Jennifer Garner’s double. One of the best sets I’ve worked on. When I read the script and I saw that Simon’s character was outed by a friend, I cried.
Someone once said people can’t queerbait, only companies can. When ever I see a comment of someone saying someone is queerbaiting I always point out Kit connor. Because for some reason people tend to forget that happened and will gladly do it to the next person…
As a swiftie (and a queer person), the gaylor thing is a really good example. I don't think Taylor has queerbaited, just accepted and welcomed the community in her fandom. What I see in Taylor and her female friends is just that, a friendship. These people are still convinced that Taylor is queer and all of her relationships are PR, and she's hinting at it every time. Taylor has said multiple times that she's not part of the community, but gaylors just pass over that and focus on the supposed hints. My reasoning for this is: If Taylor doesn't want to come out, why are you pushing her to do it? That misses the whole point of trying to figure out yourself and come out whenever you want to because it's a hard thing to do. Some gaylors have even said that if the gaylor thing wasn't a thing, they wouldn't be Taylor fans. And, as a queer person, I love being a fan of queer stuff, and if Taylor was really gay and came out I would be happy for her and even more happy that my favorite artist is a queer artist. But she isn't, and I'm a fan of hers because of her music and who she is. I think they should stop pushing Taylor to come out or admit she's gay when, or she isn't, or doesn't want to. That is her story, and she decides when to tell it.
+ I have to add that I'm conflicted talking about the Taylor and Karlie supposed kiss because to me, it does look like a kiss, but that doesn't mean Taylor is gay. Maybe she was trying to figure things out, or maybe they were just talking. It's not our thing to discuss.
ok but come on, monster is the top to red lights bottom ?!?!?! ok but all jokes aside, kpop idols and companies always show fans what they think they will like, its all about branding and exposeure to other demographics even if its not explicitly stated. MANY idols have said they dont like skinship but it is HIGHLY encouraged, while others are cool with it.....also you are hilarious lmaoo the bullying scandal bit 😭💀im in tears!
You're so right about persons complaining about if an actor makes a role for a gay person even if that actor or actress is straight,example Jonathan Bailey is gay,and he made an straight character in Bridgerton serie,and he's amazing I love him,as gay I want to say I feel embarrassed about our community,they'se so rough with everyone,I know how we feel about how people using us for marketing,but sometimes they take it so far,that they make bad things like they made with Kit Connor :C
I think you are simplifying to suit yourself. gay people are a minority and have been discriminated during casting calls in the industry. It is disingenuous to compare a queer actor playing a straight character to vice versa, itd be like saying there should be affirmative action for white people because 'equality'.
Imma share my opinion as a lesbian. Queerbaiting is valid when it’s about shows, movies, books, and things like that. But when REAL people are accused of queerbaiting, it’s fvcked up. Harry Styles, for example, was accused of queerbaiting just because he’s comfortable enough to dress “feminine.” We fight people by saying “clothes aren’t gendered! Anyone can wear any clothes no matter their sexuality or gender identity” and then people stereotype “feminine” men as gay just because they don’t dress like the stereotypical cishet male. In result, men aren’t able to feel comfortable dressing how they want to dress because they fear being perceived as something they aren’t. And then there’s Billie Eilish who simply said she loves women and got TONS of hate for it just because in the past she said she was straight. They act like you can’t be closeted. They act like you can’t figure out your sexuality when you’re older. We see people bash Billie for calling herself straight in the past and that cause many people to question themselves. To wonder if they’re valid since they were also calling themself straight at one point. Kit Connor. A teenager who was forced to come out to the public when he wasn’t ready just so people would stop investigating him. So he could live peacefully and the hate would stop. It all goes against what we are meant to believe. Our community is supposed to be a space for all. Whether you’re closeted or out, you should be safe. We bash people for outing others, but then people pressure others to come out just because they assume they’re secretly straight. We all want to come out when WE feel comfortable, but some pressure others to come out faster. We don’t like others putting labels on US, but then people go and put labels on strangers. They use harmful stereotypes to claim that someone is “queerbaiting”
100%. It was only supposed to criticize writers for baiting queer audiences with things they never planned to follow through with. Applying it to real people devalues it entirely and turns it into invasive toxicity that harms people
Exactly I can't stand when people get mad at Harry or Billie or any other celeb for queerbaiting. Maybe they're figuring things out, maybe they don't want to come out to the WHOLE WORLD. Maybe they just happen to fit stereotypes for queer people. But if they didn't like, say "I'm gay" and then date someone of the opposite gender or smth they're not queerbaiting for like, wearing something not traditionally accepted for their gender.
@@spartasbestman Exactly! Trying to apply queerbaiting to actual people does not work, because the concept was meant as a critique of media. Trying to say real people are "queerbaiting" is just a new way of applying stereotypes and potentially forcing people to out themselves. Also, a lot of people have pointed out that bi/pan people are easily targeted by "queerbaiting" accusations, because if someone dates the same gender and then decides to date someone of the opposite gender people accuse them of "faking being gay for attention". Like, come on y'all. We can't do this to our own community.
off topic but nice dami pfp
So true, we're at a point in western pop culture where we can fortunately chill tf out and let people live their lives as they want, hopefully not dogpile them in some way shape or form and see it as "support" or "wanting representation". Also as a lesbian I don't see what you being lesbian contributes to this topic but I figured that as a lesbian I should let you know that (:
People usually don't consider that the celebrities themselves might not know what their sexuality is. The public can often demand answers to questions that these celebrities don't know and aren't allowed to figure out for themselves without people trying to sway them one way or the other.
I remember Demi Lovato thought she might be nonbinary and went by they/them pronouns for a bit before realizing that she actually feels more comfortable with she/her and went back. And people were accusing her of queerbaiting just because she was experimenting with her gender identity. We should not dissuade celebrities from experimenting because then people wouldn’t want to come out because they’re worried about not being queer enough.
exactly
@@theshire9173 as far as i know, Demi still identifies as nonbinary and uses they/she pronouns
@@venustior oh, really? All the news sites I’ve seen said they went back to just she/her. Well I can’t trust the news to know all the details of some random person’s gender identity, especially when they don’t understand their own gender identity
@@theshire9173demi still identifies as nonbinary. They added she/her pronounce bc so many ppl had a problem with using they/them
I think people forget bi-curious is also a very real stepping stone in peoples sexuality and its not so simple.
Yeah & hate that people be like you have to be one or the other not be into both
Some people need to oversimplify the world to the point where it no longer matches reality so that their simple minds can understand it.
omg fr it makes me furious when people say stuff like "oh harry styles is a queerbaiter bc he said hes unlabled but only dated girls so far" or "billie eilish is a queerbaiter bc she said she was queer but has only dated men" like just cause people are celebs doesn't mean they can't be still figuring things out. actually especially celebs who have had their relationships in the public eye their whole life. it's more complicated than these people think
I've literally been bi curious for a decade now and still no verdict
also some people just don't like to have labels and sexuality can be fluid or change. especially if your still young you shouldn't have to pressure yourself into labels and just do whatever feels right to you
The Kit Connor situation made me really sad. I'm bi also, but married to a man. I've been active in queer spaces and activism but when I got into a relationship with my now-husband, my presence among LGTBQ+ people started being questioned, especially because I don't like, wear bi flag stuff or anything that would indicate what "I am." Nobody should feel obligated to have to come out, or qualify their existence.
Well yeah, when it's easy to hide making clear who you are is all the more important. It's like a person wants the bennies but not the flak.
Like, we can argue all we want about not labeling and not stereotyping, but making it clear who someone is in a space where everyone has to come out again is common courtesy
so late, but I totally agree like there's so much biphobia, even in the community. I'm not bisexual, but I definitely see people get the idea that you can only be straight or gay. even with being masc or fem nowadays, like people will see an nb person and ask "oh are you masc or fem?" IT DOESN'T MATTER. the entire point and idea that we are supposed to be talking about is the fluidity and ambiguity of gender and sexuality ! and the fact that this is so visible in the LGBTQ community is worrying
@@luisostasuc8135Who cares about sexuality as long as they do their job properly and with passion? They are actors, thus chosen for being the best during auditions.
And just because they are famous, they owe us nothing, we have no right to demand to label themselves as what ever bs exists right now. Especially when the, are so freaking young they probably don't know what they are in the first place.
Especially when there are always i**ots complaining, no matter what you do. Who would want to come out as whatever anyway???
It’s like people forget bisexuality is love both men and women
@@luisostasuc8135 But what if someone's not ready to come out yet. A person's sexuality is their business only. No lgbtq person is obliged to come out. Especially when you're 18 and still figuring out everything.
I am really annoyed at the people who think feminine men, feminine dressing men etc. are by default queer.
That's so the opposite of fighting for your rights to express yourself. Just let people be people and accept how they want to dress themselves, or want to be called. But don't push them into it.
Whether it's pushing someone into acting masculine because they were born with male parts or pushing someone into being trans (label) because they don't conform to gender stereotypes, both are freaking harmful.
It doesn't help, when queer advocates push, going against cis hetro normatives is in themselves queer.
Yes, in spite of the blaming of "society" and "conservatives" or religious people for all of the gay communities problems, I'd say in recent years, it is the LGBT advocates that are actually promoting stereotypes and rigid gender roles and to a much stronger degree than those other groups.
@@vlo4829 thats definitely an overexxageration lol. honestly you cant really blame people for not having gotten over their gender role brainrot even if theyre lgbt. it takes time. just because youre gay/trans doesnt mean ur not gonna hold any harmful views wrt gender. we are all just trying to figure things out
@@beelzebub6414 I do blame people who claim to advocate for one thing and promote the opposite, especially when it includes organizations and advocacy groups who specifically claim to "care" about LGBT people but advocate for things that can actually harm them and their causes. It's sort of the bare minimum to ask them not to harm the people they advocate for, if they care about the people and not just about creating new controversies to secure more funding...
Doesn't mean they aren't doing those things and it doesn't mean what they say isn't still perpetuating outdated views.
I've seen countless of comments from people who claim to be feminists and progressives, but one comment I've read from one of these people in relation to gay relationships was "I love when they call the submissive bottom in the relationship the 'wife'. It's so cute."
Wtf. It's clear what they are saying and suggesting, but not so clear to the commenter themselves. I've also seen countless lgbt and queer people saying certain characters MUST be gay because they're a butch woman or a feminine man, and they MUST be gay, there is no other solution!🤷🏽♀️ And honestly, there isn't much if an excuse. It's simply narrowminded and willfully ignorant. It's been said a million times that stereotyping people based on certain characteristics, is wrong. And they still choose to not listen.
To me, queerbaiting is only applicable to fiction. Saying that real people can queerbait is so risky
If they LIE and say they are gay for ATTENTION, when they KNOW they are not, is the only way. Especially if they lead on actual gay people to make it more convincing. Good thing people don't do that. Other than that leave people alone. (OBVIOUSLY people who were just figuring things out don't count)
@@Nella_nova yea especially when they begin taking up all the spaces and shift the focus away from gay artists, but we’d never be sure if they are actually not a part of the community and we shouldn’t assume their sexuality either. So tbh I know I can’t say for all but the gays maybe should stop supporting or give other people attention JUST because they display gay behaviours. Sometimes it’s borderine obssession.
Tatu is a example of real life queerbaiting.
i wouldnt say it's only applicable to fiction because industries queerbait in real life consistently, but when talking about individual people specifically it is much harder for them to queerbait (aka the only situation where it would apply would be what @bastienx3420 described)
Agreed
This is part of the reason I believe straight actors should be allowed to play gay characters (as long as the character isn’t blatantly problematic). If we don’t accept that straight people can play gay characters and vice versa, we just force people out of the closet and divide our own community.
It also has to be written well too. Too often do movies portray LGBTQ stereotypes and it just enforces the same stale image (E.g. The Gay Best Friend, The Feminine Diva, The Butch Masc), regardless of the actor's ability to make it work.
But then the conversation needs to have about how gay actors don’t get jobs they should theoretically be entitled to. Almost every single gay love tv show or movie I can think of that has reached any sort of popularity has been portrayed by two straight actors. Most of which are written with outdated beliefs or stereotypes, and if they’re adapted from books, aren’t made my gay men. So at that point, what about the story is authentic? Gay actors who don’t get roles in other films that aren’t explicitly gay are being robbed of the chance to make money because straight actors aren’t willing to back off of them
No I firmly believe queer actors should play queer characters. We’re not a costume. The same thing with cis people playing trans characters it’s so gross and offensive
I agree somewhat, but i feel like most straight actors playing gay characters use stereotypes. Like with andre braugher he does a good job not depending on gay stereotypes to act, and honestly it made it feel more genuine. Like i wasnt surprised when i found out eric stonestreet was straight but i was when andre braugher was
@@straberryshinigami15g97 what 💀 please tell me you're joking. PLEASE 😭
what really annoys me is when people say a celebrity is queerbaiting because they previously said they were straight. there's this thing called self discovery, you know. people can be wrong about themselves.
That's true, but you are talking about celebrities whose livlihood depend on them "staying relevant". In today's day and age, that means being some form of gay.
It isn't unreasonable to question their motives, and there is also a lot of pressure in some circles (especially entertainment) to be gay. Now a days more than ever.
Sure, not every celebrity that has come out has reverted back. But it has happened with people like Demi Lovato and most recently Ezra Miller.
The problem is your presumption that someone coming out is the end of the journey and not a byproduct of other things.
Just because someone comes out publically doesn't mean that was their authentic truth. It could be, but it is also just as likely they were made to believe or convinced that it was their truth.
There are so many people, especially the younger ones who come out because it's the "in" thing to do.
It's not because "straight isn't the default" or whatever. It's because trends happen, and unfortunately, something intensely personal and private as sexuality is, just so happens to be SUPER trendy right now.
In previous generations, it was trendy to "experiment in college," and a lot of people did. Some stayed gay, and most didn't. It was a real thing.
So it is 100% fair to doubt a celebrity coming out as being authentic for any number of reasons.
I understand why it's so easy to believe coming out is the end of the journey if that was the case for you. But your experience is yours alone. You can't put that burden on others that they must come to the same conclusions you did. It's very human to do that, but it is also very wrong.
@@jdzspace33 - Celebrities being queer is not 'trendy' or 'relevant.' Is it used as clickbait? Absolutely. Are there some trash agents and managers who might try to get their client into a queer film or series because they *think* it's some hot trend? Sure. But coming out as queer doesn't advance anyone's career or suddenly make them relevant in any meaningful way. No straight dude is out there playing effeminate or cosy-ing up to male co-stars because he wants better roles, because queer people and fans of queer celebrities make up a *fraction* of America's overall straight demographic. What makes more sense: appealing to 100 queer people or 1,000,000 straights, especially when a looooot of straights are still outright alientated by any queer presence in their media? Name a barely known actor or singer who came out and shot to the mainstream A List on that alone.
If you're an actor, it's in your best interest to appeal to the straights. Only very recently are we seeing out actors enter the scene with solid mainstream success instead of coming out later, and only very *very* recently are queer roles starting to pop up in mainstream films/tv.
But the overall result of coming out is that you're overwhelmingly offered queer roles, and queer roles are muuuuuch fewer and father between than the ubiquitous straight roles. (This is partly why we should be encouraging straight people to also play queer roles and queer actors to also play straight roles. Everybody sticking to "their own lane" results in queer people working less, and the same five queer people starring in every single queer thing that ever happens (Matt Bomer/Kristen Stewart/Andrew Scott/Hunter Schafer/Dan Levy). Besides, start up a rule that says 'you must actually have whatever type or trait or whathave you that you're going to portray' and it gets very ridiculous very quickly.)
In a world where Billie Eilish comes out and gets absolutely shat on because she had the audacity to label herself something else before hitting the ripe old age of *23,* where Kit Connors has to be bullied out of the closet because he was feeling oh-so-selfishly private about his sexuality at age *18,* where Halsey has to make a point to include at least one explicitly sapphic song on each of her albums otherwise people would conveniently forget she's bisexual, where everyone has forgotten Lady Gaga is bisexual, and where full on conspiracy theories about Taylor Swift's sexuality gain so much traction NYT publishes a full article on nothing but baseless speculation, it seems to me that the entire topic of gender and sexuality is currently a minefield for celebrities, not a trend. At least look at it from the opposite view. Would you say 'oh man, nobody talks about straight celebs anymore?' You really wouldn't.
I don't think it's fair or healthy to suddenly justify suspicion at every celebrity who comes out simply because MAYBE one or two of them might have some deeply misguided and ignorant belief that queerness makes them cooler. (This would be extremely difficult to prove anyway. Anyone who comes out and then re-labels themselves straight is more likely discovering themselves than playing some cynical PR game that would only backfire and be stuck to their reputation forever.)
'Being relevant means being queer' could not be farther from the truth, but it does sound an awful lot like when white dude aspiring authors claim that you have to write about BIPOC or queer characters in order to get published these days. They think a little social progress equals so much progress that the oppressed are now the oppressors, or that the sexualities historically erased throughout history are somehow so embraced and trendy that straight people are pretending to come out for the sake of relevance.
And you know who else suspects people who come out to be trend chasers? Transphobes. Republicans. Boomers. Let's maybe not help them out by treating celebrities--who are still people at the end of the day--the same way they treat us.
@@jdzspace33 we cannot assume that everyone who comes out has other motives. Also Demi still goes by they/them pronouns. People are allowed to change and I severely doubt any celebrity is gaining fame from fake coming out.
@aeas09 with celebrities, it's about starting relevant. And yes, coming out does keep them relevant for at least a little while. We are at a point where even when regular people come out, it's hard to say if it's real or if they see caught up in the trend. There are a lot of social benefits to coming out right now, after all.
So you have that, plus money is involved when it comes to celebrities.
I don't want to day we should assume everyone is not genuine, but it is more likely than not
@@jdzspace33 i literally don't think that there are benefits to coming out and even so then what? We ask people to prove that they're queer? You just have to accept people. Thats it no questioning no speculation nothing just take their word. Yes im sure someone will lie but we cannot assume that.
1:19 “My little Timmy can’t go to school without hearing a grindr notification!”
“Well maybe you should take away little Timmy’s cell phone, all the notifications he gets are disturbing his classmates!”
Also, why does Timmy know what Grindr is and how the notifications sound?
@@shotosynthesis312 TImmy's dad...
@@C_F13 HAROLDS ON GRINDR?!
i love how in b99, captain holt casually said "my husband' and no one cared. or when rosa came out everyone was so supportive and no one's personality has changed. imo, b99 is one of the best representations of queer people. no queer baiting, natural.
its my favourite show too we need more shows like b99 where they don't do sterotypes or queerbait
YESSSS
Great representation, fun show. It's too bad it is liberal copaganda.
@@elrodtherocker truee last season was too much
@@elrodtherocker honestly I hate how so many shows are going down the woke route, and this is coming from a liberal lol. I don’t need EVERY a character to be fruity or identify as an attack helicopter 💀 That being said, if they’re gonna purposefully troll us with two characters of the same gender that have obvious chemistry and pull a “and they were roommates!” On us, that’s hella weird. They gotta find an inbetween.
The biggest queerbaiting i can think of is pitch perfect, they knew majority of the audience wanted to see Chloe and Beca together and even film an ending where they got together, both actresses wanted their characters together but Chloe ends with a random man and Beca is insinuated to end up with the other guy. But it's tricky to attribute queerbaiting to normal people.
the queerbaiting in those movies were unmatched 😭
i refuse to believe chloe and beca weren't in love. it just doesn't compute in my brain
Kinda reminds me of Star Wars. I mean, it wasn’t queerbaiting. But Poe and Finn had so much chemistry that many fans and even the actors wanted them to end up together. But of course Disney had to shoehorn in a romance between Poe and some chick we’d never met before in episode 9 to make absolutely sure everyone understood that Poe is definitely not gay.
And then they advertised the movie having a kiss between two women, celebrated their own progressiveness, until it turned out that it was just two seconds between two random characters we had no connection two, placed conveniently so they could just cut it out in homophobic countries. Real revolutionary, Disney. You solved homophobia… not.
I mean, that entire movie was bad, but those two things especially annoyed me.
the worst part of this was the marketing for the third movie where they were hanging a bechloe kiss over the queer audience's head. absolutely terrible.
That was FUCKED UP omg
queerbaiting is such a funny subject and its so confusing sometimes how much it involves. Its also very misunderstood by straight people and the gay community too
My problem with it is when people use it as a means to force someone into coming out. Like, people don't owe you their sexuality just for the sake of representation.
Is so complex, cuz like people aré get about a straight people acting gays but we don't have much movies or TV shows to see a querer character, so any kinds of media for representation Is good cuz Is another space to see our selfs but If the actors who got that role Is not openly queer or even Is not queer at all Is just another straight person "taking that Role from a queer actor" but that also boxes queer actors to only playing queer roles. And that just adds to the stigma of being queer. To me any kind of representantion Is good even Is the actors arent gay themselfs.
@@dianagoenaga7263yeah what happened to Kit Connor was terrible. Coming out and self acceptance doesnt happen immediately and the way so many people missed the point of Nicks arc when they put all that pressure on Kit to come out. I understand wanting representation but lets not force real life people to become that representation for us. They are just as flawed as any normal person so its unfair to expect them to live up to a certain standard of being queer.
@@victoredwardo9485I think that’s why the whole “only queer actors can play queer characters” thing isn’t true and dangerous. Instead we really should focus on queer writers telling queer stories. Not that that approach doesn’t have its problems
People who talk about "queerbaiting" ignore the weird and perverse pressure put on straight actors or characters to act out their gay fantasies. Often people say "queerbaiting" when the truth is, they're actually being given FANSERVICE. Other times, people say "queerbaiting" when a deep friendship is being established. There is a lot of projection there. People WANT to see certain actors getting gay together, but that doesn't make it "queerbaiting" when the actors are shown together and don't bone...
I will never understand the hypocrisy of what Kit went through, like he played a confused bi teenager and people are coming at him so violently when he is a teen too ? And even if he wasn't a kid, that's not our business. I'm pretty sure asking for someone's sexuality is forbidden, so why would it be different for public figures? Also, the actor who plays Darcy is non-binary yet their character is a girl but no one got mad about it because it's not that deep
And even if it was straight who cares he did his job and was good at it
Literally. It’s a CHARACTER. If someone is playing a murderous villain, they’re not ACTUALLY a murderous villain irl. The whole point is to be someone you’re not in a storyline that’s fictional.
@@puppydogs68I thi k we all realize that lol the point is of having more gay ppl getting representation through the film industry not just the story line but also the actor themselves , it's nuanced espically when it comes to trans characters in not gonna lie I'm gonna be pro hiring trans actors because of how little roles they get .
@@puppydogs68pffft, now i'm imagining people attacking an actor for appropriating serial killer culture
@@yassine8935 this is true, and as a person of color who has watched half-white half-Black actors get biracial roles or general roles that do not include whiteness, this is particularly annoying. But with sexuality and gender, it's far trickier, because while it's a shame cishets do take away roles that could go to trans and gay people instead, it's really risky to outcry someone whose sexuality we're unsure of is queerbaiting. We can't possibly know what they're going through or whether they even want to come out. Becky Abertalli of Love, Simon herself wrote about how coming out didn't feel empowering at all because she was forced to due to backlash of her supposedly being a straight woman benefiting from writing about a gay couple. If you just look up "celebrities who were forced to come out" and the list is _long._
As a straight feminine man. Sometimes we dont mean to queer bait. Its just who we are
see and that’s perfectly fine!!! there’s no need for people to get upset. and besides, clothes don’t have gender!!!
as you should be! never be ashamed to just be yourself
You're not queerbaiting dw, anyone who claims otherwise is just dumb and self entitled
Ikr, queer people are trying to remind society that everyone is different but at the same time act hypocritically
A straight guy can't wear a dress now? Sounds like something a Conservative would say.
I literally cried in public when I saw Kit Connor’s tweet. I’m bisexual and had all the time I needed to feel comfortable enough to come out. I cannot imagine feeling forced to come out at such a young age. It’s heartbreaking. 😢
I know 😢😢
No, bc i used to fight ppl online defending Kit Connor, but ppl still continued til he finally came out(forcefully). I remembered crying when i found out....
Cringe
I’m 1000% straight. No doubt in my mind. Questioned it before to see for sure I am. But I’m very much a tomboy. I enjoy wearing a lot of boyish things and I have a very “boyish” “little man” nature. Bc of this people assume I’m lesbian or when they know I’m straight the call me a pick me for minding my own business and liking what I like. These stereotypes and internet pressure and labeling are doing much more harm than good. I’m free and I won’t be told what to do or who to be by anyone but myself (Ofc u should be open to constructive criticism too)
Society is just a large high school cafeteria.
Absolutely. I’m with you there. It’s literally all just enforcing strict gender binaries. It’s no different when it a gay person calls a tomboy a queerbaiter, than when a straight bro calls a guy gay fro wearing pink. It’s all just putting people in boxes and telling us what we can’t be
@@EdieG1 exactly! This inclusivity narrative is having the exact opposite effect creating stronger division between what a person is “allowed” to be. Ppl need to quit the gatekeeping Fr
This is so real- before I entered home school someone at my public school shipped me with my best friend at the time, me and my friend were baffled. 😭
i'm exactly the same way
During the Harry Styles segmint- my opinion is that straight guys can be in touch of their feminine side just like how straight girls in tv shows that are in touch with their masculine side. Y'all fight for equality then take it back the next second.
exactly, why can’t people just dress how they want without feeling the need to identify as this or that
I always just thought Harry was desperate for attention. Not "queerbaiting", but also not being "true to himself". Just getting publicity in a lame way.
@@dolphinsfann1991 It isn't just about privasy.
Labels are just useless and sexuality is much more flexible.
No need to put everything in a category
I think Harry Styles and others are just ignoring this western obsession.
@@moniliza4508 sexuality isn't a "western obesession". It's biologically universal. Confusion is simply extinction.
Harry is just not interested in letting the media know his sexuality. He is more interested in being himself and encouraging everyone else to be themselves as well. He believes that people should not have to label themselves if they don't want to and that they should just express themselves however they feel right.
I remember people trying to cancel Billie eilish for her music video. I was so influenced by these opinions that I myself thought it was weird of her to act like that. Now that she basically came out I feel embarrassed for all those people including myself... And wish people could shut up and mind their own business
I think it's better in hindsight but it still feels weird to me for her to make a song where literally nobody could have guessed what it was actually about because the lyrics are so unambiguous. People should still mind their own business, and when i say that i think it's weird i mean that i actually think it's just strange
@@Hotsingesl I think you meant ambiguous? Unambiguous means there's no confusion at all and the correct interpretation is obvious.
@@Hotsingesl are you refering to "lost cause"? cause if so, how are the lyrics ambiguous? it's a song where she realises she could do so much better than a person she used to be with. how could you not guess what it was "actually about"? i feel like people really wanted her to be queer, kept pushing until she did something slightly different, and then they descended onto her calling her a queerbaiter. as a queer person myself it was jarring to see how many people were convinved a real person could do it.
@@Hotsingesl i should've also added that she did end up coming out for real, so the whole thing is yet another "kit connor" situation
@@maksimally i think they were probably referring to "wish you were gay"
mentioning love simon reminded me of the fact that people bullied love simon's writer into coming out as bisexual. coming out is such a personal thing for so many queer people and forcing it out of them's just so... inconsiderate.
interviewer: whats your ideal type?
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interviewer: yoohyeon likes hardworking men
yoohyeon: i said people, all kinds of people 🥰🥰✨
Oh hey, a wild InSomnia 😄
@@Crown1923DC omd youre the crown we have all been searching for 😨
@@leeyubinsproperty You can never catch me, muahaha!!👑
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2:54 Exactly! It's almost like they're keeping things just gay enough to attract LGBTQ+ viewers, but just straight enough not to dissuade the homophobes.
It's like we shouldn't rely on hollywood elites to represent us.
True! It's like either be a show with queer caracters or don't. But at the same time i feel bad for the shows that have corporates that will not alow it even if the show makers want to. I just hope that in the future there will be shows with good and diverse caracters and people who are kinder and less forceful : /
@@Acorn905 the forcefulness is the worst part to me. It comes across as fake and transparent and does nothing to encourage relatedness between people in the real world.
hmm you underestimate how sensible actual homophobes or conservatives are, if they even see like a none-masculine male in a media they won't watch it
It's not "homophobes" or "conservatives": Straight people as a whole are simply less interested in gay relationships than gay people. This bothers gay advocates, but it shouldn't. It should just be accepted. It would be WEIRD if straight audiences wanted to see gay media at the same or higher level than gay audiences. Why is something so obvious so hard to accept? Why mislabel it as "homophobic"? Gay media is generally best when it's niche. The BEGGING by gay advocates to be in mainstream stuff followed by the whining when the content is "not focused enough on the gays" is just silly.
Destiel is my favorite example of queerbaiting. It got so bad they had to make it semi-canon.
yeah destiel is thee queerbait
I honestly disagree. People see what they want to see. I never saw Destiel doing anything that would make it seem like they were into each other until like the last season because the fans wanted it. Yes, there were jokes, and yes, Cas had a special connection with Dean, but all those interactions are normal, but whenever men show emotion towards one another they are presumed gay apparently, like there can't ever be emotional male friendships. They care deeply about each other and they are one big family. The show was never about romantic love, it was always about family and that deep bond between people that go through extreme hardship together, but people love to ship characters and thus read too much into the interactions. I am the first person to watch romance shows and movies, but this show was never about that, and it infuriates me that Destiel is the ONLY thing talked about when Supernatural is mentioned when it is a truly beautiful and heartbreaking family story with some badass characters and supernatural coolness.
@@z1tkvn I understand where you’re coming from but I’m not just talking about the show. The actors and creators have hinted numerous times that Dean and Cass’s relationship was the of a more romantic sense. While it is sad that everyone only talks about destiel I understand why they do. Even if it’s not in a romantic sense their bond is a large part of the plot, so it’s obviously going to be mentioned a lot. They talk about destiel as much as they talk about Sam and Dean’s relationship. There are some fans out there that take it too far but that’s in every fandom, so I don’t think they really count.
@@1INNABILLIONN Fair point, I don't usually watch what any showrunner has to say about the characters and/or plot if it is not in the show because it seems kind of pointless if it's not canon in the show itself, so I did not see anything the showrunners have said about it. However, I watched a lot of interviews with J2 and I also never got the impression they were trying to insinuate that Destiel is romantic, maybe only Misha. Also, of course it's important to talk about Destiel's bond, it is part of the plot, but people talk about it way more as an isolated romance than its importance for the plot and definitely way more than Sam and Dean's brotherly bond, at least from my experience.
@@z1tkvn Yeah, the fans tend to overdo it with their shipping. It’s kinda annoying, but there are interviews where they’ve been asked questions about destiel (because even I can tell that’s what most fans talk about, even though it is important it can be intense ((but I also think they do that because so much about Cass and Deans relationship was left out and fans where obsessed over their questionable relationship))) and the actors have said suggestive answers. They don’t do it as much anymore since the destiel shipper have gotten intense over the years, especially after the epilogue. Although I do agree with your og point!! It makes a lot of sense and I don’t necessarily only view Cass and Dean’s relationship as romantic but more as an intensely deep bond only they can comprehend. (I hope this made sense haha I kind of started rambling at the end)
Tbh I don’t really have a problem with straight people playing gay roles. I would rather not, but if they play the role right, are respectful, don’t stereotype, and don’t do anything else disrespectful. I think it’s fine.
My main problem though is when companies use straight actors to play lgbt roles because they don’t want to use actual lgbt actors but they still want to profit off of the lgbtq+ community.
Y'know they can't control that right? They just play the part not make the part.
@@Jane-ow7srI mean they could play the part badly on their own accord, but if they do you're right that it would most likely be bad direction and not due to their choice it's usually the directors that cause stuff like that to happen
They can choose to not play the role when they read over the script and see the stereotyping the character does
@@FloralPanicTrue they can. Just like Henry Cavill left the show the Witcher because the show runners completely ruined the story and they just recasted the next person. Unless all actors agree to not play the role someone else is just going to do it. Not saying that refusing to go to a casting because a character is written badly is bad, it is still good. But it’s not going to have a big effect. There are too many aspiring actors and actresses who just want to pay the bills.
The thing with kit Connor feels like part of the whole fetishisation and obsession with mlm couples. Reminds me of when fans were digging for proof that members of 1D or Dan and Phil were queer just so it fit what they wanted to see whether it was true or not
actually yeah. i remember years ago being on tumblr and seeing posts about Dan and Phil queerbaiting too
This is one of the reasons why I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer so much. It came out in the 90s, and had a bisexual main character in a same sex relationship for 3 seasons. The best part is, her love interest became a main character too! There was also a canonically gay side character that appeared in the earlier seasons as well. Such a great show, never queerbaited.
🎯👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Yep, I'm so sad that people forget about that. It was so naturally depicted without any weird discussion about it. I loved their arc.
I feel so SO bad for what happened to Kit Connor. Like how is that allowed?? Forcing a teenager to come out! It’s messed up
Not that I disagree with you at all because I fully agree what happened to Kit was messed up af and should never have happened, but.. I feel a little confused rn 'cause aren't people generally/technically considered adults at 18 (i.e. no longer minors)? I mean I guess I just don't quite get why he felt need to mention he was 18..??? Not that it matters of course as it doesn't change my opinion of him or what happened to him, but still... it's a small and slightly bemusing source of confusion to me... lol 😅😅😅
@@ChocolateWhispersxto me I think it's valid because many queer kids and adults even now don't figure out their sexuality until later because of comphet or internalized homophobia. Regardless, being forced to come out before you're ready is messed up and horrible no matter how old you are
@@ChocolateWhispersx yeah but I called him a teenager because “18” so like- sorry if it was confusing!
he emphasized 18 bc in the grand scheme of things (there are people who figure this shit out at like 35+) 18 is A BABY. you were literally just a minor. legally you can go to war, sure, but you still can't even drink, and everyone knows you aren't done developing.
@@ChocolateWhispersx adult or not 18 is still very young. hell even 21 is still so young. most people don't fully know themselves until later in life, some even in their 40s
Teen Wolf was honestly one of the worst at this. Stiles was teased to be bi for literally the entire show and there were multiple teases that were very much in your face and they literally never did anything with it. And the show had gay characters so it was just really bizarre to see this specific character get the "ooooo is he bisexual" for like 6 freaking seasons only for it to literally be like idk
I feel like Hemlock Grove was super similar to that too, tbh. In season 1 one of them literally checks the other's bare ass out, they have a ton of sexual tension for the entire show, and then the only payoff we ever got was a throwaway 3way in the last season. I think that's the only time I've come across queerbaiting like, so overt that it actually pissed me off.
I read somewhere that Tyler Posey was the reason Stiles and Derek wasnt a thing. correct me if im wrong plz and thank u
@christianherrera8359 wouldn't it be grooming if Stiles and Derek got together. The only people that are guys, I can see style with is Danny or a original male character.
i instantly though about teen wolf, back then when it was still ongoing, i started watching it because of all the arts i thought sterek was actually a couple only to be dumbfounded lmao
No fr remember when the actors for Stiles and Derek literally made a video, on a SHIP, hugging and cuddling while asking fans to vote for Teen Wolf for this award show for "more of this"
People accuse others of “Queerbating” when it’s just their inability to separate personality and sexuality. At the end of the day the gender you are attracted to has nothing to do with what hobbies you like or how you act and the amount of people who confuse the two and just shove stereotypes down everyone’s throats who fit into them, putting themselves and the others into a box, is crazy
THIS! PREACH!
Hi from Russia, where btw passed a law recognizing LGBT people as an “extremist organization". And for me as teenage queer girl who can't "just run away" because of the age it is really painful to watch this video 😢 like we can't even exist in our own country, what to say about queerbaitig
Please stay safe💗 we are with you
Please keep yourself safe. 🙏🙏🙏praying for you
Stay safe- really distressing how sexuality is intentionally politicised :(
Another Russian queer fella supports you! Like, our men cannot even hold hands wtih each other or they would be fucking hatecrimed.
жиза, я тоже из россии, из за таких законов хочется свалить куда нибудь заграницу, но мне еще нет 18 да и после 18 это будет сложно сделать, так что как нибудь надо выживать тут ахах😓
The Harry Styles thing is so confusing to me, because I feel like especially in the LGBTQAI+ Community a lot of people (myself included) are against/do not enjoy gender norms and talking about pushing the gender norm. Like if a dude likes to wear dresses, that is just that. It shouldn't make you assume something about his sexuality or gender identity. I feel like people should have the choice to express themself how they want, without being instantly labeled as something, that they might not even be or do not feel comfortable talking about.
queerbaiting is literally these studios having their cake and eating it too without any consequences 💀
RIGHT though... the 'it's all in your head, you're reading too much into this' stuff really fucking hurt.
A) It treated us like we were idiots. As if my many years of actual media literacy counted for nothing. I was like 'no this is being framed as a love story, they are using tropes, shots, dialogue, it's all set up deliberately to evoke the ideas that have been evoked in love stories historically'. I hated saying 'if one of them were a woman you'd see it immediately' - because it felt cheap, but it was the only way I felt I could make myself understood.
B) Then it made us look obsessed with the idea of gay kissing?? Like people would say 'can't you just let people be friends? what's wrong with you?' Like I was the weirdo.
I am old school fandom/tumblr. I was in the first wave of Superwholock (though not as a shipper), and I'm thrilled now that the kids have Our Flag Means Death/Good Omens/What We Do in the Shadows as the new big fandom staples. When characters are overtly queer THROUGHOUT those shows. It isn't just crumbs any more. It makes me want to cry I'm so happy.
I feel the 'cant you just let people be friends' so much. You know if it was straight, absolutely no one would ever say that
@@PuellaMagiMamiabsolutely.
It makes me think it's some form of gas lighting because it usually is stated with "why does everything have to be gay"
@@LilianaC8927 "boo hoo, I'm not the centre of attention absolutely all the time anymore, whaaaaaaaaaaa I'M BEING OPPRESSED"
@@PuellaMagiMamiI would. I don't like that every male/female friendship will turn sexual or romantic. I like seeing all people just be friends, whether that's between people who could theoretically be attracted to each other or not.
Then again, I am ace.
Soooo.... Still wish fulfillment lol
You absolutely are a weirdo though.
I feel honestly amazed at how you're a youtuber, an actor and a nurse all at the same time. I just think it's really cool.
On the topic of queer baiting, as another kpop fan, I think most of us don't mind it because it's usually the companies' faults, and we all know kpop stans hate the compabies with a passion. At the same time, we find comfort in seeing the idols express that they might be queer in small ways, like you said, since actually coming out would probably be career suicide. I still hope one day this changes, and idols can freely come out and still be supported by the general public.
I was hoping to find a comment like this here about kpop companies being the real issue in association of idols and queer baiting.
I agree that queerbaiting should only be a term for fictional characters, BUT in the quest for money companies evolve the baiting tactics. In the case of kpop encouraging skinship and similar types of behaviors to attract fans for duo projects for profits sake.
Should kpop companies be this reckless? No. But I feel we all know most KPOP companies are motivated by profits.
However at the same time it could also actually help as an outlet for idols who aren't sure of their sexual identity in exploring things under a "controlled" environment. If they figure something about themselves cool, if not it's just how corporations have ran for years and years at this point.
Queerbaiting in kpop in itself is such a rabbit hole, but overall I think it can apply to the industry but that doesn't also mean that it is all bad for existing.
On another note 200% agree on the mind blown at thinking Emily is this talented.What a legend.
Wait woah I did not know that about her 😭
I think the most like “iconic” queerbaiting was Pitch Perfect, but the recent one that comes to mind was The School for Good and Evil. The two female main characters literally share true love’s kiss and talk about running away together. The large majority of the fandom assumed they’d eventually get together until in the very last book, the author changed the plot to make them twin sisters and married them off to side character guys.
When I read the third book I felt so disgusted with myself for shipping them that I had to stop reading the saga. I eventually came back but it wasn't the same.
I read this one when I was a young kid, tried to go back to read it recently with the movie release cause of nostalgia (I’m 22). The amount of things I never noticed were wrong with it back then is crazy. I remember thinking back then they’d be together, and was confused even as a kid when I didn’t even know about the LGBTQ+ community yet 😭 Also the p*dophilia in the first book with that principal too 😭😭
adding to the kpop queerbaiting discussion, it reminds me of holland, one of the only openly gay idols in the industry. he went through quite a lot of struggles being a queer person in a conservative country like south korea, he got outed by his close friend in middle school causing him to get horribly harassed (he was once dragged around the school with a rope tied around his neck, it is actually disgusting what happened to him), his debut mv was labelled 17+ because two men kissed in it (meanwhile if it was a straight couple, the mv would be completely fine,,,), he received lots of hate (still does to this day), and more recently, in may last year, he was walking around the streets of south korea when he got punched by someone and got called a 'dirty gay'. so i totally get why some idols who may be queer dont feel comfortable enough to come out to the public. while south korea's newer generation is more open minded, there are still many people in older generations who find it weird and disgusting, and teach their kids this mindset too. just remember, nobody knows the sexuality of an idol unless they explicitly say it, and it is never our business to know either.
it’s so ironic how people accused billie eilish of queerbating but she just came out an hour ago
fr she deserves an apology for the way she got dragged back then
WHAT!?!?! GURL SHE WHAT??? TELL ME!?
@@non_conformist4229 honestly due to her recent statements I’m not too sure
@@tangerinu_uyep, just recently on a Variety interview. "I’m physically attracted to them [women]. But I’m also so intimidated by them and their beauty and their presence.”
Though this isn't really a surprise as she's expressed attraction to various women and has clowned the queerbaiting allegations several times over social media lol
Edit: she just posted on Instagram with the caption "I like boys and girls leave me alone about it please literally who cares"
@@ajakakakak statements about what?
i hate the idea that we need to label ourselves to have our romantic/sexual preferences validated. i’m not comfortable putting myself into any category, idk why but that’s just how it is for me
Are you an actress? You’re bit with the therapy thing was HILARIOUS
Oh I see now having watched more of the video that this was a dumb question
When people started to think that Elsa would have a gf, I got kinda upset. Nothing wrong with gayness, I'm lesbian myself, but Elsa's whole persona was being an independent, possibly aromantic self. Just like Anna doing able to do stuff with no powers.
That line from the second movie "I'm the one I've been waiting for" really meant so much to me. ❤
u can be single and independent without being ace yall 😭
They said aromantic, not ace.
@@xbluebirdx my bad, i meant aro
Being independent just means you’re not with a man duh😂
Your skit inspired me, Emily: I think the toxic version should be called "closet raiding." I still feel so bad for that sweet kid from Heartstopper; he was definitely a closet raiding victim.
As for Harry Styles, I find his dress-wearing to be way more masculine than the overblown giant muscles that straight guys fanboy over and fantasize about having. Shows he has his own mind and opinions. He's not the first--see Alice Cooper--but I love that they both have that "there's nothing shameful about femininity" attitude. Beautiful. Also--kilts are sexy as hell.
the queerbaiting in mean girls is something i never saw coming. like Janis was obviously gay or she got a lot of gay stereotypes but she ended up heterosexual. 😢
edit: i get that it wasn’t queerbaiting because of the homophobia and normalness of gay stereotypes thanks for clarifying
@marshalmarrs3269I’m still not over Sound Euphonium. The strait love interest is barely even a character
OMG WAIT WHAT??
I thought she was gay 😭
@marshalmarrs3269cough cough NANA cough cough
@@theshire9173 WAIT SOUND EUPHONIUM ISN'T SAPPHIC????
@@gloomyscribblesshe’s Lesbanese and lesbian
Couldn't agree more, queerbaiting in media (movies, series etc) is a real problem, like, the ultimate exploitation of pink money, but it's just messed up when applied to real people.. the community (not everyone, ofc) literally does what we (should) fight against: question people's sexualities, criticizes gender expression and pushes people out of the closet. Come on folks, we're better than that!
For Kit, that was definitely shitty. But it’s not a bad thing to consider the fact some ppl use this as fan service/to gain traction. Just using queerness for their career (more so in boy/girl groups)
@@ajakakakak Yes, ofc. Fanservice is also very problematic, right? But it's different from what I was referring to as "queerbaiting" (I was talking about kit, billie and harry styles kind of cases, like she said in the video). Tho fanservice is a whole other thing that we should definitely talk about too, it's quite serious indeed
Queerbaiting is a term used for FICTION. Real people cannot "queer bait"
but they can tho? like those straight guys on tiktok making it look like they’re about to kiss each other only to pull away and laugh at the camera? like its not tht deep i suppose but it’s still technically queer baiting.
Haha yes they can, you just hadn't seen Thai-Japanese-Chinese idols
Gay4Pay exists. They literally do gay videos with people paying them. To the viewers, it looks like they would have a chance with these straight guys.
@@JunPhantomI mean they are also kinda "not real" i mean yes they exist but everything they post is an act, its still fiction in a way. the dude could be actually gay or not and it wouldn't matter
@@joTheBonas if someone is going out of their way to act or make videos that imply themselves of homoeroticism while not being attracted to the same sex that is indeed queer baiting. and it’s not fictional people in books and tv shows doing this, it’s real living breathing functioning individuals who have the capacity to just not do it. besides fiction is used to imitate real life so wouldn’t that make imitating lgbtq+ relationships for profit kinda icky?
it reallt annoys me when people accuse someone of queerbaiting and then the person comes out and theyre like “oh”
"labels scare me" that is so real 😭
Sexuality is something very personal and nobody elses business
literally an hour after this video was posted i saw a video on twitter of billie eilish confirming she was queer but she "thought everyone already knew" and coming out was never a big deal to her
yeah but there was always a group of people that would say "we dont know! we shouldn't assume until she publicly makes an official statement about her sexuality!" and they'd refer me to the clip of her at 14 saying she's straight as a ruler lmao. people are weird idk
But then she got pissed off yet she was the one admitting it
@@brennathecatlover4360you clearly don’t understand why she was upset.
@@dabordietrying im convinced most queer people would say there straight at the age of 14
@@swimsvg1855 yeah exactly and thats fair, personally i knew when i was fairly young tbh. 11 was when i figured out i was bi, thanks to a girl there that was also bi lol
Thank you for explaining queer baiting to this 51yo straight woman. I’m old enough now to officially be confused. I subscribed because I need Millennials and Gen Z to explain things to me. ❤
I wanna share my opinion as a lesbian nb:
Queerbaiting to me is valid only in a fictional context: with books, shows, movies.
It does not extend to REAL PEOPLE. Sexuality is fluid in it of itself, so I find it gross that people have said actors are “queerbaiting” to the point where they were forced to come out. (The bi mc from Heartstopper.) That shit is unacceptable. No person should be forced out of the closet. Second off, I also think about when people said Harry Styles “queerbaited” for wearing dresses?
Like no. Anyone no matter their birthsex should be allowed to wear dresses, just because he was comfortable enough to dress “feminine.”
Like no one needs to have a specific label too. Some ppl forget that no one likes having a label forced onto themselves either.
What grosses me out about the Harry styles situation is that despite how the queer community has fought and is still continuing to fight for queer people regardless of gender and or sexual identity to where whatever clothing they want regardless of it’s “gendered norms” and then proceed to stereotype Harry as a gay man because he dressed a bit “feminine”- like gross. Utterly gross.
Any person should feel free to dress how they want without the fear of being stereotyped.
All in all, I think it’s awesome that Harry Styles dresses in a way that most men might not (in the us), but that’s NOT a reason to push labels onto him.
I know plenty of queer people who would feel uncomfortable with forced labels, and as a queer person myself, I also would. So for the people who say that these irl people are “queerbaiting” just think about your identities, and how you would feel if someone forcefully labeled you.
All in all hope both queer and straight folks understand what I meant. Much love 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️❤️
No one, including celebrities, have no obligation to share any personal information that they don't want to.
I was one of those people watching stuff for gay subtext back in the nineties! I used to watch old films, because my library tended to have a sleuth of ‘golden age’ films on VHS, for some reason. So I would watch movies like victim, the children’s hour, and rebel without a cause. My parents weren’t homophobic, but I didn’t want to be watching ‘obvious’ gay movies all the time. I’ll never forget going to see brokeback mountain when it came out. I saw it I think a few days after it came out, but the thing was, nobody knew it was gay. It was initially advertised as a typical cowboy movie about two friends. I didn’t even want to see it but my friends dragged me along because we had nothing else to do. I was pleasantly surprised to see some representation on the big screen!
My father thought I was gay, I think he was really let down once it became clear that I wasn’t because he couldn’t virtue signal about having a gay kid anymore..
Honestly, I've been applying for jobs lately and every single one has asked me my sexuality it's strange to me lmao I don't see a reason for it
They probably are less likely to hire gay & trans people. Im trans and i noticed a huge difference in replies when i started applying to jobs without telling them that im trans cuz no one would know if i dont tell them. edit: atleast where i live cuz i live in the south 🤮
@@hoennfanboyyeehaw 🤠
Wait wtf? How are they allowed to do that? How is that even professional?
Unless your job is involved in work around dating/sex, how does your sexuality come into play in your work?!?
@@xbluebirdx honestly... I'd probably just lie but like what if they're trying to have a more diverse workplace?? idk. thats scary tho
atleast in America, that is very illegal for them to ask
When I tell you that younger lesbian me ATE UP the monster mv!! Like I don’t give a shit if they are gay or not but it was just a great music video and song to the point where it doesn’t matter 🤷🏽♀️
1:05 I agree that lgbt characters and plots are becoming more mainstream but i wish we had so much more. And most of the time, our representation is so toxic or just gets very limited screentime
It’s not a classic gay movie if one (or both) people in the main couple doesn’t:
1. Die of AIDS.
2. Go on to marry people of the opposite sex - abandoning love and living in misery.
3. Going off to war and die.
4. Or kill themselves cause they think they’ll never be happy.
You know, wholesome stuff 😊
you forgot the big one -- the gay characters are killed in the end (see the White Lotus, both seasons, for recent example.)
Seulrene always at the scene of the crime 😭😭😭😭😭
Stan red velvet ❤
As a gay man I clicked so fast because this issue is working my nerves!
the algorithm fed me your channel yesterday and i am BINGING, living for these skits
23:56 when the bloopers came in, I KNEW THAT THIS SCENE WAS GONNA HAVE A BLOOPER. like one can never lie to a camera so strictly. hahaha this is great
"Bullying scandal" girl I felt that and it hurts
Emily brightening our day again ✨
I never understood why people force celebrities to come out. especially in media like heartstopper which have points about no one owing anyone their sexuality why fans just fixate on it. Sure it's nicer for queer people to play queer roles so the representation is genuine but it should never come at the expense of celebrities' privacy.
its like gay blackface.
especially when there is no reason not to hire a gay actor but nah. then people rely on the excuse of "but its their job to act" yeah just somehow the actually gay actors end up in shitty background roles now dont they.
the only way we are even getting those gay characters is only if straight people play them.
That "goals" at 8:30 really got me hahaha, love it
I want to add some older queer romantic comedies: The Wedding Banquet, Saving Face, But I'm a Cheerleader. I think Wedding Banquet and Saving Face are often ignored/forgotten because the leads are Asian-Americans. Also can't forget Rent, which was also very impactful on little queer me.
So true!!! It's something common in book communities too - in some ways the #ownvoices tag for writers with regard to queerness was helpful for trying to spread visibility ("I'm gay so I wrote a gay main character so my book is #ownvoices), but it also forces people to sometimes out themselves in the way Kit had to. Not exactly the same but it's still this pressure to label things
alr, this relates to a topic that is controversial in the thai bl community and ik alot of people have different takes but i will talk abt this one show called "bad buddy" in which the two main actors are (mostly) straight, and that show was fucking amazing. It was something the thai bl community NEVER saw before and thats why people are so obsessed with it till this day. nanon, one of the main actors who was playing pran was accused of queer-baiting since it was his very first gay show that he acted in and he got super famous from it, people thought he was queer-baiting bc of the amazing fan-service him and his stage partner ohm did to promote the show and to increase popularity for the both of them. ohm alr acted in 4 bls before coming to the release of bbs (bad buddy the series) so people didnt come for him even though he is most likely straight but im not one to assume someones sexuality. nanon though, literally said himself that he is straight on an interview where they were asking abt lgbtq+ stuff, and said how "at first when i was younger, i thought it was a little weird but now as im growing older i understand that it isnt and its normal love is love etc.." or something along the lines of that, and people GOT HEATED. and i mean HEATED. like they scribbled nanons face from posters and stuff bc they thought he was queer-baiting, and he wasnt. we all have thought that some things were weird when we were younger and now have grown up to know that it isnt. he was being honest and i respect him for that. and besides, theyre arguemnt isnt even true bc before the promotion of bbs, he had always acted in straight romances or no romances at all. just bc he's doing fanservice for his show doesnt mean his queer-baiting, he just wants fans to be exicted. this is something any person would have common knowledge of, right? not for the proshippers/fetishizers, made this entire deal and i was awake at 2am to defend nanon from idiotic "fans"....
I was scared of this video at first because it’s a heated topic but I AGREEE omg so much, I don’t think real people can queer bait, people might want to explore themselves but then the whole lgbtq community will attack them, shouldn’t it support them…also can’t you express your self in a different way or chose to be NOTHNG at all, not wanting to be labeled….just because you want to confirm your stereotypes … and with movies or media productions in general I believe it’s all was important to have the group be apart of the production or have been apart at some stages for ex lgbtq or destabilty movies if you have persons who represent that group they can bring the real experience
i really love your family guy cutaway gags they make your vids 10× better
Also something that often comes up as queerbaiting is people who don't have a label. They are often accused of queerbaiting or wanting to feel special but actually being straight, while that shows how much people (unconscious) see being hetero as the norm. Like "If you do not EXPLICITLY state you have a queer label, you are straight" Harry Styles for example has stated he doesn't care for labels and that his sexuality is no ones business, therefore hes unlabelled and not hetero. hes simply unlabelled.
the only time i have ever claimed that a real person is queerbaiting is when this girl from my school openly admitted that she would flirt with girls to the point of them catching feelings, and then reject them because she’s straight. she really sucks 😭
queerbaiting is a marketing technique. what you’re describing is just called being a jerk.
@@aeongies while you are correct, the girl herself claimed that she was queerbaiting, i’m just using her words 🤷
That is so messed up!!
The skits in this were so fucking funny, the first one had me howling.
Love this, there were a lot of great points and you handled the nuance that goes into this rather well :), the skits were the cherry on top.
There is such a big fetishization of mlm, its honestly a huge part of queerbaiting now i feel like that a man dare show any intimacy that isnt romantic or sexual as he's now queerbaiting.
I, being gay myself, do identify as a fruit fly.
Accusing Harry Styles of queerbaiting because he doesn't stick to strict gender roles is not as progressive as some people think it is...
why did my hands immediately click on the notification when i dont normally do
Emily possession
Becuz Emily
Emily
It's great of the progress some countries have made some people are still stuck in the 1800s we still have a long eay to go we still have little or no representation for asexuality or non binary love your videos emily they are always interesting and entertaining
Queerbaiting, is so big among like the bl manga adapted chinese shows; like untamed , Gurdian, or word of honor. I literally love these shows and eat up all the crums of "romance". These shows I will take crums without complain because of the chinese censorship.
You should do a video about thai bl show actors who are homophobic. I don't see anything wrong with str8 actors playing gay roles but like these actors playing gay roles while hating gay individuals just doesn't sit right.
Your points contrast each other. Straight men who play gay roles never take the time to understand what it’s like to be gay and take gay roles for the check. And yet it takes someone being outwardly homophobic for them to be called out for it
Isn’t the Untamed adapted from a book about a gay love story though?
Lowkey shocked that you put the untamed on that list 😭😭 like pls,,, read the source material,,,
@@oublie-moi uhh they probably meant it's queerbaiting because the show don't explicitly show the romance or gay part due to heavy censorship in china. So it's just another corporate rainbow.
I'm just guessing though. I don't watch the show lol
I don’t think the term queerbaiting applies when the source material is quite literally gay, and the adaptation is forced to remove direct reference because of government censorship laws. The fact that the adaptation has no choice but to do so makes it a completely different case than media that most definitely can explicitly say so and so is lgbtq+ but chooses not to.
I just KNOW in 4:00 Emily is DEFINITELY talking about BeChloe from Pitch Perfect LMFAOAO
thuis was such a good video. you touched on so many of my own experiences in regards to queerbaiting. its nice you've decided to talk abt this bcuz queerbaiting is a small sector of an already small community, but yet can heavily influence how alot of us think we are meant to percieve outselves. thanks for this babe !!1
Ive recently found your work after a few years of enjoying commentary content. I love the pacing of your videos and the skits you include! Keep up the amazing work. Much love (platonically) ❤
If i am being honest the
*"I simply do not consume boy group content"*
comment made me feel more represented then all the queerbate I've consumed this year.
why are people acting like celebrities are 100% sure of their heterosexuality in the first place??
Absolutely loved this video! Thanks for talking about it! Also... is anyone going to mention how the kpop part is just magically the most watched part and proves her point of us (Queer-people) despretly watching any crumb of media you give to us 😅
As a straight person this video opened my eyes to many new perspectives. Mad respect.
I agree with everything that you said about the kpop part. I’m a huge Fearnot, and what makes me very happy as a bisexual fan is how Yunjin and Sakura were able to publicly express their support to the LGBT community, I remember seeing a video of a fanboy, who went to their fansign, thanking Yunjin for her Twitter post about pride month, and Sakura talked in a interview something that made me very happy as a lgbt fan, she said that she wanted idols to be a role model for people and if Le Sserafim ever sings a love song she wanted it to be about an universal love, and seeing idols so big like Yunjin and specially Sakura talking about this is very comforting to me. Taking the part where you mentioned the “coming out in a subtle way” it reminded a lot about Kazuha, she was asked about her ideal type and her answer was “Woman? Or men?”, she also talked about her ideal type of woman, not to mention once that she said that her favorite subject in school was history because she had a very pretty female teacher, I mean, if she really is lgbt, she unfortunately can not say it, but we definitely understand what she’s trying to say with those little things
HahahaAAAHHH! You saying:
"I think I should also get it, because I am sexy, cool and perhaps even talented?!"
with guitar playing background and a questioning facial expression was absolutely tearing me up! HahahaAAAHHH!
HahahaAAAHHH! "I heard that from a Harvard Professor: Lady Gaga." HahahaAAAHHH!
"Wait, why am I at a buffet, right now?" HahahaAAHHH! Imitating eating soup.
Poor kit, he didn't deserve all the accusations
I worked on the Love, Simon movie! I was Jennifer Garner’s double. One of the best sets I’ve worked on. When I read the script and I saw that Simon’s character was outed by a friend, I cried.
Someone once said people can’t queerbait, only companies can.
When ever I see a comment of someone saying someone is queerbaiting I always point out Kit connor. Because for some reason people tend to forget that happened and will gladly do it to the next person…
the killing eve parts made literal tears roll down my cheek
IRENE AND SEULGI IN THE THUMBNAIL IM CRYING
As a swiftie (and a queer person), the gaylor thing is a really good example.
I don't think Taylor has queerbaited, just accepted and welcomed the community in her fandom. What I see in Taylor and her female friends is just that, a friendship.
These people are still convinced that Taylor is queer and all of her relationships are PR, and she's hinting at it every time.
Taylor has said multiple times that she's not part of the community, but gaylors just pass over that and focus on the supposed hints.
My reasoning for this is: If Taylor doesn't want to come out, why are you pushing her to do it?
That misses the whole point of trying to figure out yourself and come out whenever you want to because it's a hard thing to do.
Some gaylors have even said that if the gaylor thing wasn't a thing, they wouldn't be Taylor fans. And, as a queer person, I love being a fan of queer stuff, and if Taylor was really gay and came out I would be happy for her and even more happy that my favorite artist is a queer artist. But she isn't, and I'm a fan of hers because of her music and who she is.
I think they should stop pushing Taylor to come out or admit she's gay when, or she isn't, or doesn't want to. That is her story, and she decides when to tell it.
+ I have to add that I'm conflicted talking about the Taylor and Karlie supposed kiss because to me, it does look like a kiss, but that doesn't mean Taylor is gay. Maybe she was trying to figure things out, or maybe they were just talking. It's not our thing to discuss.
an iPod, glee and Santana Lopez…okay, you called me out. You got me.
🤭
the way you posted this as SOON as billie came out is so hivemind
ok but come on, monster is the top to red lights bottom ?!?!?!
ok but all jokes aside, kpop idols and companies always show fans what they think they will like, its all about branding and exposeure to other demographics even if its not explicitly stated. MANY idols have said they dont like skinship but it is HIGHLY encouraged, while others are cool with it.....also you are hilarious lmaoo the bullying scandal bit 😭💀im in tears!
Only you can make serious topics like this make me cackle while eating my breakfast 💀 I love you plz never change
Thank you! THANK YOU!
It seems like the fight for our rights just suddenly been turned into a different nonsense direction
You're so right about persons complaining about if an actor makes a role for a gay person even if that actor or actress is straight,example Jonathan Bailey is gay,and he made an straight character in Bridgerton serie,and he's amazing I love him,as gay I want to say I feel embarrassed about our community,they'se so rough with everyone,I know how we feel about how people using us for marketing,but sometimes they take it so far,that they make bad things like they made with Kit Connor :C
I think you are simplifying to suit yourself. gay people are a minority and have been discriminated during casting calls in the industry. It is disingenuous to compare a queer actor playing a straight character to vice versa, itd be like saying there should be affirmative action for white people because 'equality'.
No one has to come out of closet just because angry Twitter mob demand them to. It’s a personal matter whether they are a celebrity or not.