Long time in the Making, but Finally there is a Guide for you guys :) Hope you enjoy and have fun! PARKOUR Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:42 How to Notch! 03:15 The Theory on how Radars Work 07:02 Combining TWS, IOG+DL and Chaff 11.46 Revisitng the First Destruction
I've been experiencing a drastic missile performance oppression every time I play in a squad. I have a descent kd (at least above 2, and above 3 in good planes), as my squadmates, and they experience it too. We can be flying separately while talking in the DS, but as soon as we create a squad, everything begins. All r73s shots 1.5 km away rear aspect at burning target go to the first flare, r27s refuse to fly towards a single hot target in the area, flying random circles instead, aim120s and r77s sometimes deflecting from a clear hot bandit to his chaff. Today I got a clean hit by a Phoenix. It was launched from far away, I've seen it on my rwr, I've done a perfect notch (3:30 o'clock), was dumping chaff and was changing my direction slightly. I evade more than dozen arh missiles that way most of the top tier matches, but gaijin decided that we were killing too many red guys, so a single easiest Phoenix ruined my game. I had multiple occasions when my sparrow was flying perfectly at the interception point of a clueless unaware target, but when it was about 2 km away, it drew a perfect half-circle around that guy and continued moving in the previous direction. Yes he had less than 0.5 kd and was flying a fresh-bought premium jet. Damn aim9j launched at me from 2 km hit me, despite I've been evading it like a fcking r73 - dropped the afterburner, was popping a huge amount of flares, maneuvered the way that flares were exactly between my engine and the missile- a typical r73 evasion. That BS doesn't happen all the time, but at least at several occasions each match for every one of us. And as soon as we disband the squad, all of a sudden missiles start to perform normally.
I hear alot of people say notching doesn't work but i find it to be very good. Turning perpendicular to ARH missiles and maintaining course until its behind me and thus out of energy works so well at medium and long range that I generally don't even need to drop chaff.
Notching and chaffing was working for me just fine about a week ago but now, no matter wat i do, i get hit. I keep that perfect 3 or 9 on the missile, chaff a few times when i know the missile is close and i still get hit. I'm forced to go cold and out run the missile
you also forgot that at top tier SARH and ARH missiles when they lose lock thier seeker switches on to IOG which is inertial guidance which also need to be taken into account since even if the enemy lost the lock they still will go on where you will be next and this can be defeated by notching up and down as this will trip off the IOG guidance making the missile forced to track the chaff
@@CapaUno1322 it's basiclly flying to the side of where the guy is locking you and what i mean of notching up and down means that if the ARH or SARH missile losses lock from the mother aircraft it goes into inertial drift and this manuver trips it off and forces the missile to go for chaff
Sadly that is a bug of the replay :) You can see its Chaff due to it being a blue dot in the Tacview ( lower screen). In Tacview Flares are orange --> Which you might see soon in a guide on how to dodge IRCCM missiles!
@@RagingRaptorWT honestly fox 3 missiles are very laggy right now. I notch and chaff perfectly but the missile just don’t care. The only solution i found is to spam until he go away but i will try again with less chaff.
Thanks for this video, although I have watched a few videos on 'notching' they really didn't explain it very well, but with this video I now understand, although I have no idea why they use the word 'notch' in the first place? Earned yourself a sub, have a fun weekend! Oh if you have any videos on what are the best jets to learn from so that you advance in skill as you go through the BR's that would be cool....you know, horses for courses, skills building on each other like jet manouvering, using guns, missile avoidance, tactics and which targets to shoot down, what missiles do what and how to deal with them? You explain things well and if you haven't already this would get you a lot of views and subs. A good structured tutorial series which people will watch for years to come...thanks buddy, have a good weekend! ;D
Good explanations and great use of tac view, I wish more youtubers used it like that. Would love to see more content from you. Maybe of different styles of missile launches in tac view? With data etc
The amount of time I have dumped a full load of flares and chaff on a Su25BM (256 flares) and it sdone nothing even when defending and kissing the ground is unbelievable
I didn't take all different RWRs into this video as it would have bloated the video to well beyond 25+ mins. RWRs are fairly complex and varied themselves hence why I believe a seperate guide will be very much appreciated in general. In Short. One hand its important to know what "Frequency band" the missile / radar is and what type of Bands the RWR of your plan can see. If you have a "rudimentary" RWR which only can see 4 sectors. if you want to notch something, you got to get a RWR Warning from the upper right and lower right sector at the same time ( or upper left and lower left for the other side) If you play the 104S ASA, well, you are an italian main and hate yourself D:
@@derbe8647 learn to build SA. Watch at your rwr, compare its readings with what you see around you, and you'll find that even the spo-10 is fine for its br
Thanks for explaining, really appreciated. Quick question: could you do the same but showing what the RWR shows/beeps ? I guess you could still hear the radar sweeps ? Do you still hear the lock ? How do you know when the notch is effective and you can chaff for the missile to latch onto the chaff ? Also: Parkour.
🤝 Parkour Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I on purpose didn't cover every single RWR otherwise the video would be too bloated. Already at 13min I felt like it got too long. Very Briefly tho, normal beep beep beep, is when its just a "ping" of a radar, aka the radar flashlight went over you. "slow" Weewooweewooweewoo is basically that someone has a hard lock, but didn't launch yet fast weewoo wee woo wee woo is launch of missile. However it also depends on the RWR however, what they are capable to show, how many sectors ( if any, get screwed F104 ASA) Hence why I think a medium dive to learn RWR might be a good next step, or SARH VIdeos :) And the last one. It kind of depends. Its a bit of a feeling. For example if you are high up, at like 5km altitude, Obv the enemy missile has a longer range. so if you can see the enemy launched at like 26km, You can very often just straight up dodge the missile purely kinetically. In closer engages you can very often even see the missile wosh by because of the smoke trails. And another indicator can be if you see the "MSL" RWR Ping going from one side of your plane to another
wow, in sim i tried relying on the RWR display and with it make a perfect notch, turns out notching correctly would put the missile slightly behind the aircraft on the display, not perfectly on the side
When notching in Sim the missile supposed to be at your 9/3 o'clock, and when it's Start moving behind you that means you evade it well and can turn back to strike down your enemies.....but careful to the 50g missile that requires you and turn fast.
Well Yeh. Especially with the more modern missiles you very often have to turn in again, making a "big" circle around the launch aircraft to keep the notch. I can't say for sure as I didn't play 13.7 SIM yet, but yesterday I played the YAK-141 in Sim and reliably dodged Phoenixes and 7F/M's while fighting america!
In F-14A there are no radar warning from ARH/SARH missiles, which is a fuzz for me but for the Radar Missile Parkour Session (RMPS) is quite okay for me so far... I just kinda need to find something to click in F-14 series since i got it right on F-15 series
aim120 is the only missile that hits after nothing exactly 90 degrees on my RWR AND chaffing. but us noobs still complain about them being bad after also being the 2nd best in pull before the buff and then it got a range buff.
why in the warthunder official video on how to evade fox 3 they said when the missile launch from close distance make the missile on your 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock and drop chaff
Hi! Good video. Does this method work with AIM120 when firing from close? Sub 10km range? Usually i get fired upon by a aim120 from a far distance. First i notch for a bit and then i go cold and i am in the clear. However are you saying i dont need to go cold? Only notch and chaff? Even at close range at top tier? ty
"works fairly reliably" meanwhile me in a perfect notch at 10 meters above the ground chaff spamming an f15 10km away and still getting hit by the aim 120 lol ;-;
Curious, if the launching platform hardlocks you and continues to track the ARH missile into you is notching the missile alone enough or can the launch platform (assuming their angle is different enough from the missile's) still get a successful hit?
From my understanding as well as others which worked on the missile spreadsheet, regardless if you have a hardlock or not, at 5km range the ARH Missile will ALWAYS use its own seeker head ( for all the modern ARH's like PL12, AMRAAM, MICA). So you always got to "notch" the missile in that case. We also tested that where the enemy aircraft flys into your notch, aka trying to cut the distance down rather then flying straight and we got the same effect where you fly into the notch, chaff and the missile is defeated. You can see this in the Video at around 10:00
Hence why I am not the biggest fan anymore of flying mega low. At least in the beginning of the game. It feels very inconsistent with the Multipath height being moved lower
I can understand how to bleed energy, notch crank whatever against a fox 3, but my question is do i have a chance in under 10km? I can reliably dodge fox1s head on under 10km but how do i do that with a fox 3?
@user-if4zv5nj5m Already doing that but seems to be just a 50/50 plus they missile will at the minimum be 7km away from me when I have fully reached the notch
Sadly that is a bug of the replay, I can assure you it was Chaff, you can even hear the difference in sound. At 11:46 when I revisit the clip you can see the chaff puff clouds in tacview :)
Yesn't! Yes modern Radars and missiles can counteract multipathing but there are still deadzones where you are too close to the floor and the radar can't really detect you. The main issue in War Thunder is that Trees and houses do not have impact on the multipath height. Which is an issue when some trees tend to be higher then 75 meters tall xD
"Just notch bro" Yeah try it with 6 missiles on your ass because of 16v16. Notching also rarely behaves like how they should except for simulator battles where it is extremely effective.
I wrote in an earlier comment. I am still not 100% confident in giving solid advice to tackle the mayhem of toptier air RB. However in the "early game" very often you can defeat a lot of missiles through simply having more energy then them. A lot of people shoot their ARH's very early on at high altitude at like 30 km. Here if you basically pull long enough into the notch or even fly cold you can defeat them. But I agree, too many people are in toptier! 10v10 should be the max at toptier 🤝
RB99 is the Swedish AMRAAM ( which I use when the Gripen shoots me), which in the game is a straight-up copy and paste with a different name. They have the exact same Guidance Values as well as PID Controlling values. Mica has the same guidance values but different PID Controlling Values.
@@RagingRaptorWT But there is no grippen in the video?.... am i missing something? I went to watch the entire thing again and you only did it against mica and phoenix.
@@goliath3413 Woops, you are correct! I had around 40+ mins of footage of me notching in the end in the F15J and Tornado. Where I also fought the Gripens RB99. I somehow thought I included it but went against it as the video was already fairly long at 13 minutes. But as mentioned above, the Guidance values, the values which influence how hard to notch or defeat a missile with chaff is, are the same across all the new ARH missiles. some have different PID values for manouvering due to their different fins. MICAS with Wings + Thrust Vectoring, AMRAAMS with just fins, R77s with grated fins.
Notching is unrealistic. The notch gate in modern (Pl-12, R77, amraam...) missiles is so small that you just can't ralistically notch them unless you get extraordinarily lucky.
I wouldn't call it unrealistic, as it is a valid tactic also in real life. However you are correct, obviously modern engineering wants notching not to work. However I want to be the devils advocat here, I believe some decent counterplay is important for the games health right now. Otherwise its just a point and click adventure with very little brain activity involved *cough* F14 Phoenix spammers *cough*
I always notch and chaff perfectly at 90 degrees and the missile keeps lock on me anyway (and eventually misses after me notching for about 30 seconds due to running out of energy) but this isn’t helpful at all because it means I’m very far away from everyone else and I can’t fight. I have no idea what I’m doing wrong any advice?
1. For some reason in wt notch works better if the missile is slightly behind an ideal notch (not 3-9 o'clock but 3:30-8:30) 2. With wt magic ARH missiles keep re-locking on your exact location as soon as your chaff cloud dissapears. The best solution is to don't notch prematurely, but keep fighting until the missile flies close to you, than quickly hit the notch and continue to press your target. This skill comes with experience
Especially in early game you tend to defeat long range ARH's not really through notching but through energy bleed as @user-if4zv5nj5m correctly commented bellow. In the end you got to try and get a gutfeeling on if you defeated a missile or not. I try to gather some gameplay of me having some decent games where I showcase how I play toptier.
nah, you're still doing it wrong. WT is weird, notching doesn't work like it does IRL. you gotta stand your aircraft up on a wing and pop chaff. keep it up on it's wing until you see the RWR go dark. works for me every time, which is stupid, you're literally giving the largest silhouette possible for the radar to pick up, but somehow, it thinks you're notching it. I'm talking 90 degrees to the horizon, Y axis is pointing straight at the enemy radar. Edit: I think they've fixed this. it's not working like that anymore.
isn't that just the RWR going dark because it only detects stuff around you and not directly above your aircraft? I noticed this the other day but I realised it must just be an RWR shenanigan because the radar signature should be massive with the massive perpendicular surface of my wings.
@@agiliteka yeah, but then why does it work? it makes literally no sense, but it works. you can see them fade and lose lock in higher end RWRs like on the F-15s and F-16s. Well ya got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense.
@@SalePlouck I know that, but for exemple, multipath with it doesn't work, and if you notch it, you'll be way too far from de battlefield and then you won't be able to get more the 2/3 kills
(multipath may work but not for me (even really close), and in any case, the msl has so much explosive mass that it will act like bomb and kill you even after toutch the ground.) Tbh, an ammram is for me way easier to make untrack you
Pour les fox 1 tirer à moins de 20km comme les 27er cette technique de l'encoche ne fonctionne presque jamais... En gros si vous faite pas perdre le lock radar de l'adversaire vous êtes mort.
Moin :) I explained at the end ( 11:46 ) again what I did wrong in the first clip. Simply put, I panicked and didn't have a decent notch, because to be fair, the Tornado is more of a Turdnado with how it turns and with how limited the Rudder Authority is. When I was in the "notch" I panicked due to the IOG of the missile and turned out rather than going up or down in the straight line. I believe it is important to show mistakes, especially if you learn from them!
Well I am working on it but its also rather rough I know. Main issue is, I don't know how to get it fixed. Also I assume its more swiss then german accent :P
biggest problem for me is i spend half the game notching from ARH spam then if i somehow survive that then i get an f16/mig 29 hunt me adn the rdarters just go around even the least aware players, the gripen in this meta really sucks ... 1000hrs+ grinding wasted
Currently I am averaging around 2.5 K/D in things like the F16C / F15J (M). I am still not 100% confident enough to give a proper guide on how to play toptier, but one thing I noticed early on is, shooting your ARH's at the beginning of the game, tend to give poor results as obviously people flying high up are more likely to know how to defeat ARH's. I tend to use them more in the mid game where a lot of people already are missing a lot of missile load and are less likely to think you still have some. But again, I am not 100% certain of a decent tactic yet. I do agree, the current toptier meta is kinda.... meh to say at least. I also prefer playing 12.3 max or stay a tad lower. However there you have the issue of F14's being very dominant.
@@xXC4tuneXx the rule of thumb is: if you are going to notch/turn cold, you have to send an arh missile towards your enemy. That way you won't get hunted after you've defeated the first missile. Also try to be as aggressive as you can if you aren't outnumbered. Fox3 tactics is a game of "how much risk I can take without being killed". You have to close the distance as much as you possibly can without eating an aim120. That way your missiles will be really dangerous and you'll get a lot of kills
@@RagingRaptorWT yeh i get around a 3 kd on average in my fgr2, the missiles working helps a lot but also the worst thing you usually deal with is 54s and 7ms
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я but the problem is my r-darters just do not hit, like they feel actually broken. I have little trouble getting kills( often aces) in my fgr2 but the gripen is outclassed in every aspect but turn rate
@@RagingRaptorWT also f14s arnt too bad (my squad mate has been using his for a while so I'm always at 12.3) but an uptier against planes 20 years newer feels a little silly 🤣
bro that intro clip made u look terrible at air rb. If that was sim ok but in air rb u can see if it is a f14 coming also even in sim the rwr u have should let u know it is a f 14 the aim54s not hard to dogde it just that ppl try to notch the thing and get blown up just dodge it . and with other ARH go cold or defeat the missle by letting it burn all its energy
Yes I played it poorly :) Am I proud of screwing it up this bad? No! But I am okay with showing my mistakes and how to learn from it. In the end this clip sparked this whole video. However I doubt I am able to kinetically defeat the Phoenix frontally with a tornado at this altitude, hence why I went into the notch. At 11:46 I revisit the clip again and showcase the mistakes I did :)
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я fair enough . I only notch when dude launches at like 8km and I have no chance of defeating the middle kinematicaly . Notching requires chaff and if I was to chaff every missle I would need to rtb before I had a chance to use all my missles
Long time in the Making, but Finally there is a Guide for you guys :) Hope you enjoy and have fun!
PARKOUR
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:42 How to Notch!
03:15 The Theory on how Radars Work
07:02 Combining TWS, IOG+DL and Chaff
11.46 Revisitng the First Destruction
I never knew what notching is until you actually explained it, now I know why I’ve been getting shafted by missiles
the regime of personal oppression doesn't think so,rocket will always relock you with 500% booster
The Booster Curse
I've been experiencing a drastic missile performance oppression every time I play in a squad. I have a descent kd (at least above 2, and above 3 in good planes), as my squadmates, and they experience it too.
We can be flying separately while talking in the DS, but as soon as we create a squad, everything begins. All r73s shots 1.5 km away rear aspect at burning target go to the first flare, r27s refuse to fly towards a single hot target in the area, flying random circles instead, aim120s and r77s sometimes deflecting from a clear hot bandit to his chaff. Today I got a clean hit by a Phoenix. It was launched from far away, I've seen it on my rwr, I've done a perfect notch (3:30 o'clock), was dumping chaff and was changing my direction slightly. I evade more than dozen arh missiles that way most of the top tier matches, but gaijin decided that we were killing too many red guys, so a single easiest Phoenix ruined my game. I had multiple occasions when my sparrow was flying perfectly at the interception point of a clueless unaware target, but when it was about 2 km away, it drew a perfect half-circle around that guy and continued moving in the previous direction. Yes he had less than 0.5 kd and was flying a fresh-bought premium jet. Damn aim9j launched at me from 2 km hit me, despite I've been evading it like a fcking r73 - dropped the afterburner, was popping a huge amount of flares, maneuvered the way that flares were exactly between my engine and the missile- a typical r73 evasion. That BS doesn't happen all the time, but at least at several occasions each match for every one of us.
And as soon as we disband the squad, all of a sudden missiles start to perform normally.
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я you know what i get this sort of bs when in a premade-squad, get 7f's pulling 90 degree turns for me
scizo thunder
@@verynice001 frfr no cap
solid aid brother, the more guides the better.
Thanks mate :3
Always needed a ton of chaff for notching but the tip about putting it on the RWR's wingtip really helped, really good video
I hear alot of people say notching doesn't work but i find it to be very good. Turning perpendicular to ARH missiles and maintaining course until its behind me and thus out of energy works so well at medium and long range that I generally don't even need to drop chaff.
Notching and chaffing was working for me just fine about a week ago but now, no matter wat i do, i get hit. I keep that perfect 3 or 9 on the missile, chaff a few times when i know the missile is close and i still get hit. I'm forced to go cold and out run the missile
Same
you also forgot that at top tier SARH and ARH missiles when they lose lock thier seeker switches on to IOG which is inertial guidance which also need to be taken into account since even if the enemy lost the lock they still will go on where you will be next and this can be defeated by notching up and down as this will trip off the IOG guidance making the missile forced to track the chaff
What is notching up and down? Notching is a really dumb word to use......🤔
@@CapaUno1322 it's basiclly flying to the side of where the guy is locking you and what i mean of notching up and down means that if the ARH or SARH missile losses lock from the mother aircraft it goes into inertial drift and this manuver trips it off and forces the missile to go for chaff
Fantastic video mate, haven't seen Fox 3 yet but now i should be well prepared :)
Well soon you might have the Iranian F14A :P So there you will definitely see the Phoenixes / Fakours!
Glad you liked it :3
Fun fact at 8:20, when u look your countermeasures number, its the flares who go down and not chaff ( CHFF )
Flare normally for thermal.
Sadly that is a bug of the replay :) You can see its Chaff due to it being a blue dot in the Tacview ( lower screen). In Tacview Flares are orange --> Which you might see soon in a guide on how to dodge IRCCM missiles!
@@RagingRaptorWT honestly fox 3 missiles are very laggy right now. I notch and chaff perfectly but the missile just don’t care. The only solution i found is to spam until he go away but i will try again with less chaff.
Thanks for this video, although I have watched a few videos on 'notching' they really didn't explain it very well, but with this video I now understand, although I have no idea why they use the word 'notch' in the first place? Earned yourself a sub, have a fun weekend! Oh if you have any videos on what are the best jets to learn from so that you advance in skill as you go through the BR's that would be cool....you know, horses for courses, skills building on each other like jet manouvering, using guns, missile avoidance, tactics and which targets to shoot down, what missiles do what and how to deal with them? You explain things well and if you haven't already this would get you a lot of views and subs. A good structured tutorial series which people will watch for years to come...thanks buddy, have a good weekend! ;D
Good explanations and great use of tac view, I wish more youtubers used it like that. Would love to see more content from you. Maybe of different styles of missile launches in tac view? With data etc
great stuff, raptor 👍 i love the side-by-side replay and tactical view, very professional and easy to understand :)
(parkour?)
Thanks Wubb 🤝
Great video
Glad you appreciate it
The amount of time I have dumped a full load of flares and chaff on a Su25BM (256 flares) and it sdone nothing even when defending and kissing the ground is unbelievable
I really like this video but how do i implement this in an aircraft with a shitty RWR, such as the f14A, mig 23mld, or f 4j?
just guess when its ARH and when its SARH
I didn't take all different RWRs into this video as it would have bloated the video to well beyond 25+ mins.
RWRs are fairly complex and varied themselves hence why I believe a seperate guide will be very much appreciated in general.
In Short. One hand its important to know what "Frequency band" the missile / radar is and what type of Bands the RWR of your plan can see. If you have a "rudimentary" RWR which only can see 4 sectors. if you want to notch something, you got to get a RWR Warning from the upper right and lower right sector at the same time ( or upper left and lower left for the other side)
If you play the 104S ASA, well, you are an italian main and hate yourself D:
Either guess what's the arh missile/sarh launching plane on us rwrs or determine a notch by your eye on soviet/French ones
Usually you just wont tbh. U will know the missiles direct direction way too late in most cases.
Planes with bad or no rwr are utterly fucked atm
@@derbe8647 learn to build SA. Watch at your rwr, compare its readings with what you see around you, and you'll find that even the spo-10 is fine for its br
Crazy how notching been a thing for years and people now figuring this shit out is insane( new players this don’t apply to you)
Ive heard is better to put many chaff into a specific place, like a big ball of chaff because its a bigger target than you plane
Good video bro!
Thanks. That will be my standard video for noobs who ask how to notch on different help discords.
Parkour!
Appreciated
VERY good video
Thanks for explaining, really appreciated.
Quick question: could you do the same but showing what the RWR shows/beeps ?
I guess you could still hear the radar sweeps ? Do you still hear the lock ?
How do you know when the notch is effective and you can chaff for the missile to latch onto the chaff ?
Also: Parkour.
🤝 Parkour
Glad to hear you enjoyed it.
I on purpose didn't cover every single RWR otherwise the video would be too bloated. Already at 13min I felt like it got too long.
Very Briefly tho, normal beep beep beep, is when its just a "ping" of a radar, aka the radar flashlight went over you.
"slow" Weewooweewooweewoo is basically that someone has a hard lock, but didn't launch yet
fast weewoo wee woo wee woo is launch of missile.
However it also depends on the RWR however, what they are capable to show, how many sectors ( if any, get screwed F104 ASA)
Hence why I think a medium dive to learn RWR might be a good next step, or SARH VIdeos :)
And the last one. It kind of depends. Its a bit of a feeling. For example if you are high up, at like 5km altitude, Obv the enemy missile has a longer range. so if you can see the enemy launched at like 26km, You can very often just straight up dodge the missile purely kinetically. In closer engages you can very often even see the missile wosh by because of the smoke trails. And another indicator can be if you see the "MSL" RWR Ping going from one side of your plane to another
wow, in sim i tried relying on the RWR display and with it make a perfect notch, turns out notching correctly would put the missile slightly behind the aircraft on the display, not perfectly on the side
When notching in Sim the missile supposed to be at your 9/3 o'clock, and when it's Start moving behind you that means you evade it well and can turn back to strike down your enemies.....but careful to the 50g missile that requires you and turn fast.
Well Yeh. Especially with the more modern missiles you very often have to turn in again, making a "big" circle around the launch aircraft to keep the notch.
I can't say for sure as I didn't play 13.7 SIM yet, but yesterday I played the YAK-141 in Sim and reliably dodged Phoenixes and 7F/M's while fighting america!
In F-14A there are no radar warning from ARH/SARH missiles, which is a fuzz for me but for the Radar Missile Parkour Session (RMPS) is quite okay for me so far... I just kinda need to find something to click in F-14 series since i got it right on F-15 series
aim120 is the only missile that hits after nothing exactly 90 degrees on my RWR AND chaffing. but us noobs still complain about them being bad after also being the 2nd best in pull before the buff and then it got a range buff.
warthunder is crazy
why in the warthunder official video on how to evade fox 3 they said when the missile launch from close distance make the missile on your 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock and drop chaff
Hi! Good video. Does this method work with AIM120 when firing from close? Sub 10km range? Usually i get fired upon by a aim120 from a far distance. First i notch for a bit and then i go cold and i am in the clear. However are you saying i dont need to go cold? Only notch and chaff? Even at close range at top tier? ty
"works fairly reliably" meanwhile me in a perfect notch at 10 meters above the ground chaff spamming an f15 10km away and still getting hit by the aim 120 lol ;-;
what about if they launch at you from 2 diffrent spots?
Curious, if the launching platform hardlocks you and continues to track the ARH missile into you is notching the missile alone enough or can the launch platform (assuming their angle is different enough from the missile's) still get a successful hit?
From my understanding as well as others which worked on the missile spreadsheet, regardless if you have a hardlock or not, at 5km range the ARH Missile will ALWAYS use its own seeker head ( for all the modern ARH's like PL12, AMRAAM, MICA). So you always got to "notch" the missile in that case. We also tested that where the enemy aircraft flys into your notch, aka trying to cut the distance down rather then flying straight and we got the same effect where you fly into the notch, chaff and the missile is defeated. You can see this in the Video at around 10:00
Djeu un Valaisant parmis nous
Getting really tired of missiles tracking then flying straight through terrain
Hence why I am not the biggest fan anymore of flying mega low. At least in the beginning of the game. It feels very inconsistent with the Multipath height being moved lower
I can understand how to bleed energy, notch crank whatever against a fox 3, but my question is do i have a chance in under 10km? I can reliably dodge fox1s head on under 10km but how do i do that with a fox 3?
Uninstall the game
@@shahbaz6741 I 100 certain you suck at at the game yet youre telling someone to uninstall
Just hit the notch
@user-if4zv5nj5m Already doing that but seems to be just a 50/50 plus they missile will at the minimum be 7km away from me when I have fully reached the notch
@@shahbaz6741 original
In the intro, you're only using flares
Sadly that is a bug of the replay, I can assure you it was Chaff, you can even hear the difference in sound. At 11:46 when I revisit the clip you can see the chaff puff clouds in tacview :)
So mutlipathing nerf is realistic ? Cuz seems like not.
Yesn't!
Yes modern Radars and missiles can counteract multipathing but there are still deadzones where you are too close to the floor and the radar can't really detect you.
The main issue in War Thunder is that Trees and houses do not have impact on the multipath height. Which is an issue when some trees tend to be higher then 75 meters tall xD
@@RagingRaptorWT sounds weird fdor me, so in DCS and rea; life u need to almost hug the ground like in WT to survive ?
It works every time, until it doesn't because reasons.
kek
Tbh after watching this vid I've been able to dodge fox-1' and fox-3' more consistently. But gaijin moments still happen
@@InuPlays Hey its an improvement!
"Just notch bro" Yeah try it with 6 missiles on your ass because of 16v16. Notching also rarely behaves like how they should except for simulator battles where it is extremely effective.
thats not the problem bro.. 5 people firing fox3 from different angle at the same time.. thats the problem
I wrote in an earlier comment. I am still not 100% confident in giving solid advice to tackle the mayhem of toptier air RB.
However in the "early game" very often you can defeat a lot of missiles through simply having more energy then them. A lot of people shoot their ARH's very early on at high altitude at like 30 km. Here if you basically pull long enough into the notch or even fly cold you can defeat them.
But I agree, too many people are in toptier! 10v10 should be the max at toptier 🤝
Ok, but none of these demonstrations are against amraams which are straight up broken in guidance.
RB99 is the Swedish AMRAAM ( which I use when the Gripen shoots me), which in the game is a straight-up copy and paste with a different name. They have the exact same Guidance Values as well as PID Controlling values. Mica has the same guidance values but different PID Controlling Values.
@@RagingRaptorWT But there is no grippen in the video?.... am i missing something? I went to watch the entire thing again and you only did it against mica and phoenix.
@@goliath3413 Woops, you are correct! I had around 40+ mins of footage of me notching in the end in the F15J and Tornado. Where I also fought the Gripens RB99. I somehow thought I included it but went against it as the video was already fairly long at 13 minutes. But as mentioned above, the Guidance values, the values which influence how hard to notch or defeat a missile with chaff is, are the same across all the new ARH missiles. some have different PID values for manouvering due to their different fins. MICAS with Wings + Thrust Vectoring, AMRAAMS with just fins, R77s with grated fins.
Notching is unrealistic. The notch gate in modern (Pl-12, R77, amraam...) missiles is so small that you just can't ralistically notch them unless you get extraordinarily lucky.
I wouldn't call it unrealistic, as it is a valid tactic also in real life. However you are correct, obviously modern engineering wants notching not to work.
However I want to be the devils advocat here, I believe some decent counterplay is important for the games health right now. Otherwise its just a point and click adventure with very little brain activity involved *cough* F14 Phoenix spammers *cough*
I always notch and chaff perfectly at 90 degrees and the missile keeps lock on me anyway (and eventually misses after me notching for about 30 seconds due to running out of energy) but this isn’t helpful at all because it means I’m very far away from everyone else and I can’t fight. I have no idea what I’m doing wrong any advice?
1. For some reason in wt notch works better if the missile is slightly behind an ideal notch (not 3-9 o'clock but 3:30-8:30)
2. With wt magic ARH missiles keep re-locking on your exact location as soon as your chaff cloud dissapears. The best solution is to don't notch prematurely, but keep fighting until the missile flies close to you, than quickly hit the notch and continue to press your target. This skill comes with experience
Especially in early game you tend to defeat long range ARH's not really through notching but through energy bleed as @user-if4zv5nj5m correctly commented bellow. In the end you got to try and get a gutfeeling on if you defeated a missile or not.
I try to gather some gameplay of me having some decent games where I showcase how I play toptier.
nah, you're still doing it wrong. WT is weird, notching doesn't work like it does IRL. you gotta stand your aircraft up on a wing and pop chaff. keep it up on it's wing until you see the RWR go dark. works for me every time, which is stupid, you're literally giving the largest silhouette possible for the radar to pick up, but somehow, it thinks you're notching it. I'm talking 90 degrees to the horizon, Y axis is pointing straight at the enemy radar.
Edit: I think they've fixed this. it's not working like that anymore.
isn't that just the RWR going dark because it only detects stuff around you and not directly above your aircraft? I noticed this the other day but I realised it must just be an RWR shenanigan because the radar signature should be massive with the massive perpendicular surface of my wings.
@@agiliteka yeah, but then why does it work? it makes literally no sense, but it works. you can see them fade and lose lock in higher end RWRs like on the F-15s and F-16s.
Well ya got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense.
No joke, the problem in not fox 3 or lack of skill, the problem is the phoenix
fly low, perpendicular and you won't get hit
I do agree the F14's are way too low of a BR, but it is also important to know how to counter the enemies weaponary.
@@SalePlouck I know that, but for exemple, multipath with it doesn't work, and if you notch it, you'll be way too far from de battlefield and then you won't be able to get more the 2/3 kills
(multipath may work but not for me (even really close), and in any case, the msl has so much explosive mass that it will act like bomb and kill you even after toutch the ground.)
Tbh, an ammram is for me way easier to make untrack you
Pour les fox 1 tirer à moins de 20km comme les 27er cette technique de l'encoche ne fonctionne presque jamais... En gros si vous faite pas perdre le lock radar de l'adversaire vous êtes mort.
Parkour
If that first scene is you then you should prob. Learn what 90 degrees are 💀
Moin :)
I explained at the end ( 11:46 ) again what I did wrong in the first clip. Simply put, I panicked and didn't have a decent notch, because to be fair, the Tornado is more of a Turdnado with how it turns and with how limited the Rudder Authority is. When I was in the "notch" I panicked due to the IOG of the missile and turned out rather than going up or down in the straight line.
I believe it is important to show mistakes, especially if you learn from them!
Dude has a thick German accent 😂
Well I am working on it but its also rather rough I know. Main issue is, I don't know how to get it fixed. Also I assume its more swiss then german accent :P
@@RagingRaptorWT u are doing a fine job :)
@@Josh_Exitcamper Thank you mate!
Keep it 69 likes
As funny as it would be, I take the 228
Damn ig we all gotta like now that someone ruined it
biggest problem for me is i spend half the game notching from ARH spam then if i somehow survive that then i get an f16/mig 29 hunt me adn the rdarters just go around even the least aware players, the gripen in this meta really sucks ... 1000hrs+ grinding wasted
Currently I am averaging around 2.5 K/D in things like the F16C / F15J (M). I am still not 100% confident enough to give a proper guide on how to play toptier, but one thing I noticed early on is, shooting your ARH's at the beginning of the game, tend to give poor results as obviously people flying high up are more likely to know how to defeat ARH's.
I tend to use them more in the mid game where a lot of people already are missing a lot of missile load and are less likely to think you still have some.
But again, I am not 100% certain of a decent tactic yet.
I do agree, the current toptier meta is kinda.... meh to say at least. I also prefer playing 12.3 max or stay a tad lower. However there you have the issue of F14's being very dominant.
@@xXC4tuneXx the rule of thumb is: if you are going to notch/turn cold, you have to send an arh missile towards your enemy. That way you won't get hunted after you've defeated the first missile.
Also try to be as aggressive as you can if you aren't outnumbered. Fox3 tactics is a game of "how much risk I can take without being killed". You have to close the distance as much as you possibly can without eating an aim120. That way your missiles will be really dangerous and you'll get a lot of kills
@@RagingRaptorWT yeh i get around a 3 kd on average in my fgr2, the missiles working helps a lot but also the worst thing you usually deal with is 54s and 7ms
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я but the problem is my r-darters just do not hit, like they feel actually broken. I have little trouble getting kills( often aces) in my fgr2 but the gripen is outclassed in every aspect but turn rate
@@RagingRaptorWT also f14s arnt too bad (my squad mate has been using his for a while so I'm always at 12.3) but an uptier against planes 20 years newer feels a little silly 🤣
bro that intro clip made u look terrible at air rb. If that was sim ok but in air rb u can see if it is a f14 coming also even in sim the rwr u have should let u know it is a f 14 the aim54s not hard to dogde it just that ppl try to notch the thing and get blown up just dodge it . and with other ARH go cold or defeat the missle by letting it burn all its energy
Notching is faster than kinematically defeating, which gives you the advantage
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я also risky especially if you don't have an advanced rwr . Easy enough to do in the tornado now try it with a mig 29
@@devonthompson9081 no risk no reward
Yes I played it poorly :) Am I proud of screwing it up this bad? No! But I am okay with showing my mistakes and how to learn from it. In the end this clip sparked this whole video. However I doubt I am able to kinetically defeat the Phoenix frontally with a tornado at this altitude, hence why I went into the notch. At 11:46 I revisit the clip again and showcase the mistakes I did :)
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я fair enough . I only notch when dude launches at like 8km and I have no chance of defeating the middle kinematicaly . Notching requires chaff and if I was to chaff every missle I would need to rtb before I had a chance to use all my missles