Broaching on a Haas Lathe: VPS + G156 = Broaching - Haas Automation, Inc.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2021
- Product Specialist Bhop Singh is back again to introduce a new feature that's available now on new Haas Lathes. That's right! We're talking about broaching keyways and other similar forms using Z-axis motion. Bhop shows us how our newly developed VPS Broaching template makes programming the motion easy and how G-code G156 keeps the code simple so you can make changes to your broaching operation easily.
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I use this tool ( Horn SH117 ) and I can say, when you retract the tool and you have enough clearance make sure it's out of the slot,
the tool insert wear is way better than when you retract in the groove.
When you have a lathe with C-axis you can do this with G71, ...... or make a repeatable sub program ( M97 or M98 ) like this:
Main program: ( metric )
O2000
----
G00 Z10.
X15.
M98 P2002 L70 ( 70 cuts )
( or like some Fanuc controls M98 P702002 )
-----
Sub program:
O2002( Incremental X 6mm Up - X 5.9mm Retract )
( X = 0.1mm in diameter - 0.05mm per pass )
G98
G01 U6. F2000.
W-40. F5000.
U-5.9 F2000.
G00 W40.
M99
%
HAAS (NGC) Controller.
A very user friendly controller for sure.
Even better if you are new to CNC programming and just want to make parts but don't want to be a machinist.
The power and stiffness of a HAAS machine is only noticeable if you have run more expensive machines.
But for guys who just want to make parts they are more than enough of a machine for most shops.
Reality is.
We only want to make parts for our customers.
3 years back I sold a korean Machine, and this function was key selling point. customer felt in a single setup he can complete 2 operations. My competitors were offering 2 machines. But the point is to Find Right Cutting Tools with Indexable inserts!
So clever. And wonderfully obvious in hindsight.
Where was this a few months ago when I ventured into a similar project I broached in my st10y. I ended up programming a loop program with incremental in y axis to create my broach and looped program. Increase number of loops to create a deeper broach. Don't have nexgen control but would have benefited from that template. Great job!
Just did this on my okuma last week, it is nice being able to bore, broach, and put the setscrews all in one operation. And I just used a long hand offset turning cycle in cam, because I arced out of the cut(tool did not like that when I changed to the prehardened material ).my code was closer to 17 pages just for the broaching op
Hugely useful tip and clear video on its use. Haas as usual...
P.S. OK, now... On that eccentric turning canned cycle...
Do we need to enable spindle orientation to get this ?
Have a 2019 st-15 with vps.
Very much important information.
Thanks.
Keep it up.
I like the easy seeming squaring of the tool.. those flats are pretty handy..)
so satisfying seeing an australian saving my problem
A great machine feature, and a great video.
Love the accent too. It's an accent I always associate with traditional British engineering, and steam trains.
super charming accent. a real northern lad
This guy's great!
Awesome 👏 ✌️
Great video
Big up the UK Massive 👍, Sheffield I reckon or Manchester?
Bradford, apparently. See another comment from haas.
i'm not a machinist but this was awesome.
I tried to make multiple broaching just the way you did it but when I ran the numeric program it just gave a single broach, is it something for what we should call the dealer or is just a setting we could change?
i have a VF-2 and a ST30Y 2019 how can i get this update
It may be that in not aware of it, but a simmular program for the VF machines would be awesome. and make a valid sale agrument for us jobshops. Brg from Norway. :)
wow, that's beautiful
The template seems to give a broaching start angle, but no stop angle? As in you would have to manually do single broachings for a part that has no borached deatures evenly spaces for the whole 360 degrees?
What about the broaching depth, in your example you had 0.201 inches, but imperial keyways measure the length of flat. Is there a way to change this setting to be the measurement that metric keyways are defined as, which is from the bore radius (or center of bore)?
Good man
Hello.
Is there any g code to do eccentric features ?
Thank you.
Do you think this is possible with a 2020 TL1? I know it has spindle positioning. This really looks promising, I am hoping to do bolt action rifle receivers.
Tom, This feature will work on a 2020 TL-1 with the Spindle Orientation option.
I noticed on your depth of .201 that your previous value had more places past the decimal, does it make the machine more accurate to include the zeros to the end of your value. Say your machine can program to the .00001, is it more accurate to punch in .20100 as compared to .201?
Brian, It does not make it more accurate. The number of decimal places is just a default for the template we created.
where can you purchase a go gage like the one used at 7:56 in the video?
Can you do the same thing on a mill like a VF-2?
Liam, Yes G156 is available on the latest software for the mills. There will be a G156 VPS template created for the mills later this year. But you can go ahead and program similar to the lathe to create features on your parts.
@@haasautomation can i do this on a 2009 mill? long program i assume but, mount a tool in the spindle and have it hold rotation accutatly enought to do this? i do have spindle orientation enabled.
Brian, It can be done by locking the spindle with M19 and the correct P value. M19 isn’t a true lock so it’s not very accurate. so it would depend on your tolerances. But using macro’s and loop cycles should help reduce your program length.
@@haasautomation Yeah nooooooooooo! M19 is the worst on Haas. it vibrating. Tho! I hope one day Haas will make machine that are design for that. But what i like about Haas is the price. And at this price you can't do what a 1000 000 machine can do.
@@haasautomation i have a st-30Y i have the update 100.20.000.1200 the g156 is there but the ATP mesure arm is not giving the real distance, it is a bug?
We have an ST-35Y that's 2 yrs old, but it doesn't have this or the new probing cycles. Is an update available for adding these cycles?
mlrs629, If your lathe has an NGC control and you want to add the new templates and cycle, please contact your local HFO for options on software updates. Thanks.
But is this machine designed to do broaching? Wouldn't this wear the out in a more brutal way than usual because of the direction of the force wrt the chuck orientation?
Is vps offered standard on lathes or is it a option
Is this standard to use for any machine or do i need to buy the script?
I have a less than a year old ST20 with spindle orientation added..
Can i run an update to add this VPS template to my lathe and my mills?
BVC OFFROAD, If you want to add the new template to your NGC ST-20, please contact your local HFO for options on software updates. Thanks.
Why not run an endmill to rough cut the feature before broaching. 1/4 em for a 1/4 keyway stop .005 short double your feeds because your only taking out the radius the endmill left behind.
I'm going to edit this for doc purpose, the doc in this video is essentially 2 inches. Everything past is safety. The amount of time you'd save by roughing it with an endmill would be worthwhile. You can always throw in a different F value once you get to the real meat of the cut. But even at the meat of the cut your only removing .005 of material that hasn't been rough cut.
Very good. Can this be done on an SL40?
Geoff, Unfortunately this template and the G156 code are not available on the SL lathes. But yes, absolutely the broach process can performed on your lathe using point to point programming or G71.
I programmed this today on my ST20Y. I selected multiple broaches but after saving the program the machine only does one broach. Why is this?
Harry Wall, Thank you for letting us know you had this issue and our apologies. Bhop has been working with our software team to fix the bug that causes this issue. It will be fixed on the next software version 100.21.000.1000 which will be released by the end of this month.
You can do this on a cycle for Mori seiki , dmg mori, fanuc and so on. :)
Hass controllers are fanuc.. same with Mori, that’s why lol
@@adammiller4879 Not all. they use siemens, mitsubishi, heidenhain and fanuc.
Naic sar
Can you broach on a TL-1 Lathe?
What's the tool's brand and product id
Can you broach on a slight helical path?
Creative Air, Currently it’s not possible with this template or with G156. But machining those kind of features are being worked on and might be available in the near future.
Haas control is amazing, I just hope the eliminate shut up heater's mouths by improving the stiffness and power of the machines
You're right about the HAAS Controller. ( NGC )
A very user friendly controller for sure.
Even better if you are new to CNC programming and just want to make parts but don't want to be a machinist.
Yes this is good but my machine is an older model so I end up using g71 p1q2 u0 w0 d.003 f100.
I have written a few of those. At the machine. With pen and paper.
Wow thats the feature i was waiting for......is it next gen controle only? or pre next gen olso??
Henk, These features are available only for the NGC control.
Pro tip: what you are showing here is just called shaping. Broaching by definition requires the use of a broach, and its a unique machining operation because its the one of the only type of machining with a fixed depth of cut per tooth, unlike all other machining operations, except cutting threads with a tap or die.
Misleading video title.
Tip appreciated!
What is it that you are trying to say ?
You don't like the video ?
Or you feel ripped off for watching it ?
It's FREE information and you're still not happy ????
@@weldmachine Just commenting on a mistake in terminology. I think I was pretty clear about that.
The biggest downside is for this to work you basically need live tooling installed on the machine because they don't install C-axis and spindle brakes on all the machines. I think spindle brakes should be on all machines.
Good point from CMTeamCobra, If you don’t have C-axis but do have spindle orientation; the VPS template will read your machine configuration and post the program with M19 R values instead of C-axis. And If you don’t have M19 Spindle Orientation, you can try it out for free for 200 hrs. Just go to your machine Diagnostics page and select the Features tab. And if the M19 Spindle Orient row shows status “Tryout Available” you are good to enable it.
@@haasautomation Our salesman from Gosiger in Brookfield said that you could only do this with the geared head lathe option. He also said that the VFs M19 can't hold still to broach without an extra broaching jig. Our 2005, 2007, and 2009 VFs all shake when M19 is used. Which makes the feature good for positioning boring bars and such only for avoiding a whoopsie.
Will it destroy our lathe tolerance?
Can you do the same thing on a ST10Y?
rodo va, If your ST-10Y has an NGC control and you want to add the VPS Broaching template, please contact your local HFO for options on software updates. Thanks.
You can also just make a sub program in incremental moves and just loop it. Then you only have like 10 lines or so. Also drilling a side hole will let you broach blind keyways if your part permits
I was also wondering why a sub program wasn’t mentioned, the only downside is when you need to adjust something you have to swap between programs. I would love to see a canned cycle like this one featured, it’s just a bit more user friendly.
@@Alita1991ftw you don't even have to change programs. On a Haas you can use M97 in place of an M98 and call a "local sub routine" from within the same program. You just put the sub after the M30
?? It should have showed a slotting machine, not a shaper... and can this CNC perform tapered keyways ?
the machine can probably do a tapered keyway but youd have to hand program it G01 x1.0 z.1, g01 z-1.0 x.95 for example
What is the max cut depth?
Matt, The VPS template allows a max DOC of .0035 (0.09mm) and that’s only for aluminum. But after you generate the code you can edit the I value on the G156 line of code to adjust that as desired.
who makes this broach
What's the cycle time?
Prasad, The cycle time per keyway was about 2.5 minutes.
@@haasautomation
Always grateful for the feedback on your videos.
@@haasautomation thank you. Cycle time is quite less for this keyway. Usually in a broaching machine this will be less than a minute. This feature is good for small batch production.
Id love a newer machine. We got old mori seiki. 3axis machine cent. And 2axis lathe no live tooling damn it..
Beam me up, Scotty.
Can you clarify what the "D" parameter does in the G156. On the Haas website, it says that it retracts in the X direction for tool clearance. But that doesn't make sense on a mill. For example, if you are broaching at 45 degress, the retraction would need to be along the cut angle, not just in the x direction. What I am talking about can be found here: www.haascnc.com/service/codes-settings.type=gcode.machine=mill.value=G156.html
the reason pull/push broaches are still used is because they are the fastest way to do it. the reasons shaping machines are sometimes still used is because you can do any shape you want with them and don't have to order a broach per shape. you're combining the downsides of shaping and broaching into one "downsides" list which is disingenuous. using a cnc machine as a shaper is certainly faster than a manual shaper, but it not faster than push/pull broaching. and when cycle time is king, push/pull broaching is still viable.
Except to my knowledge you can't push/pull a blind keyway, the shaper method you can
@@coreyb4073 push/pull broaches are not obsolete, shapers are because of what you see in the video
@@SuperAWaC Yeah, good luck putting a 2inch blind keyway with this. I can tell you a vertical slotter aint obsolete.
@@spikeypineapple552 there are slotting tools that can do blind internal keyways, with or without relief grooves. sorry, but shapers and slotters are obsolete.
@@SuperAWaC I'm telling you I make 90gbp/hr doing slotting work, right now in the UK on a butler slotter. Along with 5axis millling, there's a time and a place for all tools, and I'm taking work from sinker edm shops left and right.
I could write a macro that would do the same thing
What language is this?
He entered his ball size where?
老是这样加工会不会损伤机床的精度
No one would use that code you say is standard broaching code.
Anyone with half a brain on their shoulders would realise you can just use the G71 roughing cycle.
Wrong little Mitchell 😂
Rename it as single point broach 😁
Why not just use Marcos. Its just as easy.
Vai di stozzatrice..
Technically this is called shaping. A broach has multiple teeth that progressively cut more material. Please correct this!
Hmmmm.....looks like haas doesnt know how to use sub programing. ive been broaching on cnc lathes since 86 on a chnc1 and I use a m98p**xxxx where * is the times of repeat and x where the sub program is. sub is g1 z depth f.xxxx feed per material,u-.005,back to g0 z.100 u.007, m99. this is a .002 depth of cut each pass.
With this video quality, you'd be better off spending the money on making your F1 team not a near-backmarker.
Nah id rather have great videos here than waste money on an F1 team
🇧🇷Daniel Machado - Brazil🌎🇺🇸
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They should’ve had Terryberry do this. It is extremely hard to understand this guy
but his accent it great!
Can understand him just fine, go wash your ears out pal.
Matthew, Bhop is one of the most knowledgeable machinists here at Haas, he has over 30 years of experience in the machining trade; from the job shops in Bradford, Yorkshire England to high volume manufacturing here in California.
Like any manufacturer, or company for that matter, that is interested in hiring talented folks to help make their products and processes better, we hire people for their abilities and experience and not because their accent or choice of words exactly mirrors our own. And we know that we’ve grown because of this diversity and that we improve because of the new ideas brought from our employees different perspectives.
I suspected he was a Bradford boy. (I grew up in cleckheaton, an outlying town with a bradford postcode).
@@haasautomation
It's great to have Matthew on the current HAAS videos.
Always good to mix things up a bit for the videos you guys post.
Definitely don't want to turn it into a Playschool channel where we have the same people on Every time ????