I did something similar in 1991 while underway on a submarine in the Atlantic (we had to repair a large pump and needed to manufacture a part). We did not have any fancy broaches but we did have an old South Bend lathe. I ground down an old style boring tool to make the cutter. It took a minute to cut the keyway but it worked just as well. Nice tips, Quinn.
That's a super cool story. I wasn't aware that a submarine would carry a lathe. I'm surprised you had the space for it, and obviously there would be noise/vibration concerns. Out of curiosity, what sort of machining and repair capability did you have? Mill? Welders?
@@jasongreene303 I know it's not uncommon for very big ships like oil tankers, container ships and aircraft carriers to have at least a lathe and welder on board, if not more. And I can also see how more moderately sized ships, such as cruisers and destroyers probably have such machinery and equipment on board as well. But a submarine?! No way there's room for a lathe on anything but a nuclear submarine and maybe some of the ultra-large diesel-electrics. On top of that the entire name of the game in military submarines is to remain stealthy and silent, running a lathe on board of one must surely give your position away to any other hostile submarines in the area?
@@pieterveenders9793 I do not know what equipment you find on a US sub, but I do know that they often do things aboard that make a lot of noise. They just do not do it when there is a need for stealth. You can also mechanical separate machinery from the hull and reduce a the noise transmitted to the ocean.
I should have learned by now that every time a machinist says "no special tools needed" what they actually mean is "beside a fully equipped workshop"...
I have done this when fitting "in the field" It's actually not too slow if you do some "priming cuts" with a hacksaw. (provided you don't have too large a hub diameter to be accommodated by the saw frame.) Getting the corners of the keyway sharp is possible if you grind an emergency "safety edge" onto one side of your file with your angle grinder.
Engineer and Machinist! 👍 I've always said that anyone that wants to be an engineer, needs to spend time in a machine shop. Countless times I've argued with engineers that had no concept of what it takes to manufacture some of their ideas that they so easily put on paper without understanding what it takes to fabricate them. Only once in my almost 50 years in the trade, did I work for a company that wasn't a Job shop. They had their own product which they designed and manufactured. It makes it so much easier when the Engineer and the Machinist work side by side to solve any problems they have as it occurs, when manufacturing a new product.
@@charlesmauro5905 I couldn’t agree more with that sentiment. It’s all too unfortunate the amount of “engineers” that can’t/don’t understand that while the things they’ve learned in school are best practices, in real life things don’t actually behave exactly like they do in solidworks.. I had a recent graduate of an engineering program ask a fellow experienced engineer what O.D. and I.D. meant…. It should be mandatory in order to complete your program and get your degree that there’s a certain amount of hours you need to work in a shop, preferably a shop that’s applicable to they type of engineering you want to do. I’m in the states so maybe requirements like exist elsewhere.
@@charlesmauro5905 I got my PhD in biological cybernetics, but while doing my dissertation work I did an apprenticeship in the machine shop of the Max-Planck Institute, beginning with make a square block within tolerances from a chunk of steel using nothing but a file. Throughout my career that training helped me when I wanted a specialist machine or tool made. I could either make it myself or intelligently explain and/or draw my requirements for the machinist. Secretly, I wish I had become a machinist, in spite of having had a successful career in science.
I have found that if you use carbide when doing the mill/lathe trick you have to retract the cutter before returning, otherwise the cutting edge chips. HSS seems to handle dragging on the return stroke much better.
I'm surprised carbide will handle the load. Another reason not to use carbide in a regular shaper. Dragging the tool back across on the return stroke will damage the tip. A hydraulically powered shaper on the other hand automatically moves the tool out of the way. On gear shapers the work retracts out of the way.
@@mpetersen6 It's been many years since I used a shaper but the old geared one's that I used back then all had clapper boxes which prevented the tool dragging on the return.
Your voice delivery and correct terminology use is flawless! Perfect video quality. Thanks also for presenting the cutting audio from broach or cutter passes...it is the sound of Victory!!!
I've zero interest in making a steam engine, but I love the things you are teaching me while you make one. Same thing here: always wondered how one could cut a slot (in this case, a keyway) on a machine that spins material! My lathe is so much more capable than I am, but you're teaching me to THINK. Very grateful for that, Quinn. Press on!
Hello! A relief that this was not about CNC but something so straight. You have inspired many likeable witty comments! Watched the full video - very expensive! Hope you like this comment also!
And here I am 7 months later for a refresher course. My 16-year-old son needs a key way on a generator pulley on a 49 Plymouth.This will be life changing for him!
I am working on a workmanship program in our company and crossed ways with your channel. I am VERY impressed about the depth and effectiveness of your teaching. doing metal works for 30 years I find all essentials and more covered and super well explained.
The true test of knowledge is one's ability to share it in a clear and simple way! Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I love your humor "for the vitamins, kitty hair, because we're civilized". Priceless! This very old guy appreciates it very much!
I've repeatedly used the lathe "shaping" technique, with the compound at an angle, to scrape grooves into the chambers for barrels destined for roller delayed firearms. It works very well!
Yes, indeed. Without a fluted chamber you run into serious issues with torn rims and stuck cases in general. The slight grooves allow for the brass to "float" in the chamber and pop free easily after the pressure drops.
I am in the process of re-powering my mill from a single phase motor to a 3 phase with a VFC. Naturally, the original motor is all metric (Korea) and the new one is imperial (US). This has made it necessary to have the mill apart while I modify the motor pulley to fit the new motor. I used the same process with some adaptions (remember, no mill). I ground up a HSS tool bit, similar to the one you made and welded it across the end of a steel bar from my stock pile. Worked fine. I confess that I have done this several times over the years, and used them in both the lathe and the mill. Good vids, keep them coming...........
I worked in a transmission factory back in the 70s, and the job station in front of mine had a broach machine.....a freaking 20 foot long broach would lift and drop into the gears....not just a single key, but an entire splined center for the gear. It was something to see, and to marvel at the engineering that produced that machine!
Keyways separate the kid machinists from the adults. I have been in awe of internal keyways for years... Having assumed that they were formed on those big expensive machines. Never knew about this awesome process and am indebted! Thank you. Love your videos.
I really appreciate your idea of what 'expensive' is. So many sites/channels I visit have a much different definition. I watch/read for some time, and then find out that this great part/accessory/thing I'm finding out about will cost more than I spent on the machine I'll be using it in. Or the tool I need to make the thing costs far more than just buying the part, or dozens of them. It's true that, sometimes, that's okay, since making the part is the goal, but getting these great tips is so helpful, because I have very little cash to spare!
Love this vid brings back memories. About 40 years ago I designed a part with internal keyways. The shop said it could not be done. Little did they know I worked my way through college as a machinist. Show I showed them the broach and lathe method and told the supervisor to go back to school and don’t question me again. Old folks love to challenge young kids I was 22 at the time
Great video content and I applaud you for warning users of long keyway broaches to frequently release the ram pressure from the top of the broach to prevent accidental breakage. We were taught to always relieve the ram pressure every couple of teeth of broach travel.
Those are some great tips to keep in the back of my head. When I first got started in this stuff, I worked at a machine shop mostly doing operator stuff. They got a job that required a ton of keyways. They went out and bought a vintage keyway machine and had it refreshed by the company. I can't remember how many I ended up cutting. It must have been in the thousands.
So many things to admire about this video....using the correct terms for everything is one. Getting me to learn something new is another. In 1967 I saw a 14 year old pound an Allen wrench in the keyway slot of a go cart shaft, and hack saw off the excess. I knew that was wrong.
Wrong, but it probably got the job done and back out to play! I remember having to make woodruff keys for my motorcycles as a kid too- we lived in the middle of nowhere, and a vise and bench grinder were the most high tech tools we had!🤣🤣
Brilliant! As a complete newbie who inherited a 1937 South Bend Jr. lathe with a missing 16 tooth spur gear that is essential to 90% of all thread cutting operations, and not being able to source one ANYWHERE that had a keyway, this piece of information is like a godsend.Thanks so much for sharing. I'd also like to compliment you on your teaching ability. Speaking with some 36 years of experience on teaching, I know a good teacher when I see one.
Im a new machinist just fixing to graduate my school in april 2023. I wanted to say to you that out of all the videos on youtube, you explain things so well and i enjoy your voice. Thanks for being there for people like me. Your the best and i want to watch all of your videos and plan to do so. Im at the top of my class and already have a job offer at bowing to rehall airplanes in Atlanta, Georgia !! Love you !!!
As a testimonial to your teaching skills, I had actually guessed the three methods you were going to demonstrate before you actually revealed them from information contained in your previous videos. Thanks again, Quinn, for your fine skills as an instructor.
I was looking for a way to put a keyway slot in a gear using my mini lathe. Not only did you show me how but you offered several other viable solutions. I've learned a lot from your videos. Thank you.
5 years ago I agreed to make a few parts that had keyways. I had watched a video showing how to make a broach and use my lathe. Little did I realize how many strokes it takes. I now have an import broach set. But it seems every keyway I want to make requires a bushing I don't have, at least they are easy to make.
What a fun demonstration! This jogged a memory of when I made keyways using that mill method back in college because that specialized tool was always either being used or broken by a freshman before the end of their first week in the shop
A tip that I use at my work is to get a sacrificial piece of round bar made to the same dimensions as the workpiece is of a similar material. On the spot where you are looking to have the key way, dill a pilot hole making sure that the exact centre is half into the centre sacrificing bar and half into the work piece, this with making the hole bigger (but not larger than the intended key way size ). Then you use the key way to take out remaining material. OK might be a bit more with making the centre, but it would save on how much effort is needed in the force pushing the key way to final size. Keep up the great work Blondi and have a great weekend! Phil UK
If your keyway is in the end of a shaft you can also skip the whole keyway cutting step and simply drill across the join between the shaft and your flywheel, pulley or whatever, then insert a dowel pin (or the shank of an old drill cut to size) as the key. I've seen this referred to as a 'dutch key' or 'scotch key' though a round key might be a more useful description. Obviously the torque capacity will not be the same as a square key.
This impressed me enough to subscribe to your channel! I've been a machinist since 1989 and this is the first time I have ever seen a keyway cut with those methods.
Three ways to keyways! Love this. I figured it was going to end up on the lathe. I saw a My mechanics scooter restoration where he used the "lathe as shaper" technique to make the ribs in the mold for his handlebar grips. I love Saturdays 😄
Liked her approach and that she thought that an old high speed drill bit that might work well enough for the cutter. A practical way to do things. Well done.
Oh cute! Never looked upon tiny broaches! Drool.... Then turning the lathe into a shaper. Back and forth, a little at a time. Cool. I was in the mood to turn a file into a cutter for a needed slot but used the tiny mill instead. Thank you for this! Keeps brains ticking.
This is a brilliant video. Only just found ur channel. I love this stuff. I'm learning new things all the time thanks to great ppl like your good self.
I was taught the lathe version at school in 1969 from a cranky but brilliant teacher. Your vids are just so easy to listen to. Thanks!. I had to go and have a lie down after watching the lathe method. );
I've been watching your videos on and off for a while, very good content, and the subtle humor is a great touch, personally I think your greatest talent (machine shop wise) is explaining a procedure or concept in simple terms, on more than one occasion you have demonstrated a procedure in a way that is clear, concise and logical and yet at 57 years of age makes me wonder how I never learned or thought of doing the procedure that way before.
Thank you for showing the surface finish on that part. I turned the first round 4-jaw challenge parts on Stan's Logan lathe this weekend and got similar results, which made me sad as well. Emery is the only thing that saved me.
cheers for this video Quin, I was aware of the methods for cutting a keyway on a lathe or mill, but it was really good to see it explained in terms simple enough for me to understand and have it demonstrated so I can follow along!
For cutting larger width keys, it helps a lot to start with a narrower broach, cut an underwidth keyway, then go to the next size broach. This is good technique for the shaper methods using quill or carriage as well. Broaches can 'dig in' and cut deep on the bottom end of the hole. If, when you pause the press ram, you see the broach springing over significantly, then you might be pushing it through on an angle. I like to press the broach in for a couple of teeth, then pause and move the work around so that the back of the broach can be eyeballed relative to the press ram (which you lower behind the broach for this test). If you see a wedge like gap behind the broach, then it is going crooked. At this point, it can usually be straightened into vertical position with gentle leverage, then continue to push the broach.
I was trained as a Fitter and Turner in the early 80s, staying in the trade for over 20 years. I have cut a few quite large keyways on lathes. We called it "the Armstrong method" because you needed a strong arm to do a half inch keyway. I much prefered access to a shaper or a slotter.
I can't imagine doing something like this in 100 years. My claim to fame is using my HF lathe to trim down some PVC pipe to fit some hard rubber pipe for the water supply to the house. This was very interesting to watch and as Always your narration was excellent, explaining everything very well. thank you
I had to use a 25mm broach at work the other day and a 22mm one today on stainless steel... It takes about 5-6 tonnes to push through each pass. For bigger keyways we use a slotting machine/shaper.
Beautiful job. Takes me back to my apprentice days back in the late 70's, when I learned how to grind tools for key's and slots, and still use today. You put a lot of time served engineers to shame.🙂
Literally just watched Adam Booth doing this on his lathe to make oil galleries in a brass bushing. 🤗 Edit - the mill could probably be a drill press, so you can probably do this even without a mill or a lathe.
@@ellieprice363 I think that with a bit of creativity and a decent vise, you could probably pull it off. Wouldn't be easy, but I think it could be done.
@@ellieprice363 There are several methods for adjusting the depth of cut. One is to tap the hole the bit sits in and use a short set screw to move the tool bit out of the bore a little each time. Another is to simply incrementally add shim stock or feeler gages between the fixed jaw of the vise and the workpiece. I have used both methods on a drill press with satisfactory results.
@@ellieprice363 True on rigidity... and most drill presses are anything but rigid but with light cuts, 1-2 thou a pass, it is doable. Just gonna take about 125 one thou passes to cut a groove an eighth of an inch deep! I have also done it using the tailstock on a lathe but that gets really tedious. One of the most efficient ways to do keyways without a broach is on a shaper. For splined holes that are not too deep a rotary broach works very well. For ultimate broaching there are linear broaching machines that will do four V8 engine blocks at once. Both decks and the intake deck, and main bearing seats in about 90 seconds a cycle including mounting and dismounting the blocks. There is a video of an old Chrysler plant somewhere on youtube that shows the process.
@@ellieprice363 Well um... just type 'rotary broach' into that "Search" window at the top of the page we are on. I think you can figure the rest of it out. ETA: We can't really post links in youtube comment pages otherwise I could be of even more help :D
I made the keyway by turning a plug to fill the hub. Then I drilled a hole centered on the radius thru. The top of the key was ground to a radius to fit the top of the drilled hole. The key has not failed to hold the gear in place on the shaft. The next time I need a keyway cut, I will try the method with the boring bar bit to see if it is any better..
I found it easier when using the lathe method to put a sacrificial shaft in the bore and drill a hole a little undersized to the keyway. Drill it where the shaft meets the bore. I usually start with a couple of drill sizes under the keyway and carefully work my way up. Makes a tedious job much easier.
Excellent tutorial, I've got to try this, and thanks for the tutorial without background music like so many people feel they have to add to their videos!
And I learned something today. Logged on to TH-cam to learn something about Halloween setups and now I know 3 ways to cut a keyway. Lol. Nice content. Thanks for sharing.
Great demonstrations! You've probably seen a few examples of lever-operated mechanisms mounted on the lathe tool post (with the carriage locked) that move the cutter in and out of the bore. For small (7x14, etc.) and barely-adequate lathes especially, they really seem to take the stress off the carriage-transport gears/rack. BTW, I just read your commenting policy. I love it! I think other You Tubers should have similar policies--especially the one warning safety trolls that deletion is only a mouse-click away. 👍
Yes, great policy, but there is one minor complaint: The term "mansplaining" seems to suggest a certain bias, which _may be generally justified, but not always._ Females and indeed any imaginable gender/orientation can also fall into the know-it-all rut, at least occasionally. As a man who really does *LISTEN,* I find it unfair to paint us all with the same tarry brush. As an example, my ex-wife was a Critical Care Registered Nurse, dealing mostly with Cardiac cases, and _she would insist to me that "the heart is NOT a pump."_ Utterly wrong, of course, and no appeal to specialist credentials can alter that truth.
@@YodaWhat Well, if it is _generally_ justified, then using the term doesn't suggest bias at all. It's simply employing a generalization which, in this instance, is well-known and widespread. For every female know-it-all, there's ten male ones. So there's more danger of bias in asserting that you're an exception--essentially the eleventh male--and it's unfair to deny the use of a generalization because those who don't fit it are offended. In reality, there's no bias here on either side, but on your side there's the opportunity--which you took--to assert that you're more sensitive than the average bear.
@@tcarney57- The problem with any sort of prejudice is: It's a race to the bottom, and only the worst win such a race, at the bottom. That is not the kind of behavior suggested by the rest of the rules.
Another great video! I've used the slotting tool for keyways and a variety of shapes over the years in both my mill and lathe. My own success was a match for yours. It's a great method for the home shop. One of those was a 60 degree angle push cutter to "hex" out a 9/16 hole to fit over a 14mm hex. This means only forming 6 corners with some short arcs between. The flats on the corners were 2.5 to maybe 3mm wide? And yeah, 1/2 to 3/4 of a thou per push was the limit even on my big lathe for that 5 to 6mm total width of cut for the last few passes. But all in all as you say, a pattern soon sinks in and the job was done in only about 10 minutes for all six corners. There is another good reason for light cuts to limit the pressure if using our lathe. Namely if there's any lift in the bed that can possibly occur the high pressure of too aggressive a pass will try to lever the carriage up on the angled prismatic ways. That's going to be hard on the contact points of the carriage to bed as well as distort the cut. I know there shouldn't be any lifting up possible. But it's not always a perfect world with perfectly tuned machines, eh?
Great video. I had to cut a keyway last year on an idler pulley. The keyway broke and wallowed out the slot on the idler. I wasn't going to pay $100+ for a 5" pulley on my zero turn. Welded the slot up, bored it back to size and used the lathe to cut the keyway. It would have been much easier on my milling machine but the video I found at the time showed it on a lathe. LOL Only took about 4 hrs, but when your retired that's not bad wages.
When you need to lock the spindle of a lathe for such work, you can often drop it in back gear while still engaged in straight turning, I learned on a thirties era South Bend and currently work on forties era Logan lathes, very similar to the South Bend I worked so many years on. Thanks for an elegant description of fine work.
@@Blondihacks A wooden wedge lightly tapped into the gap between the chuck and the bed might be another option. A lot of lathes have induction motors that don't have any 'cogging' points they like to stop in.
About 60 years ago, our workshop foreman could cut keys and keyways by hand, but he did his apprenticeship in the 1920 when it was an essential skill in a fairly remote rural area. I could never match his skill, but I did manage to cut serviceable keys.
Every time I watch you (quite expertly) grind something tiny on the grinding wheel, my heart ooches it's way up into my throat! Thanks for another excellent video
Great techniques! I have wanted one of those sets but now see that for the limited number of keyways that I cut I can make a tool and use my mill. So many things I have learned about machining have come from watching and talking to other machinists. Thanks for the tips!
I've done all 3 methods myself. I have even made an odd size spline coupling for a $60,000 extruder shaft. In a previous job, I used an automatic broaching machine.
@7:10 Aww, missed an opportunity for an "essential oils" pun. Nice job! Absolutely right that keyway broaches can be a pain to use with just a small arbor press. Even though force is being concentrated just onto those small cutting surfaces, it's all being applied down the length of the way as you cut.
Thanks Quinn for making this Video. I don’t have a Broach Set, so doing it on the Mill or Lathe will be really Handy. Please keep the Videos coming. I have really Learned a Lot from you.👍❤️
I really appreciate the "I have two adequately rigid linear axes, I can do a little bit of light duty shaper work" solution. Machines with spindles can sometimes even switch hit for machines without!
That seams similar to rifing a barrel and you made it look very easy to do. I did one time had to change the size of the key with only files so much fun and time. It did work.
Glad to see you broaching this subject.
Booooo. Lol
Take my upvote and leave.
she makes many key points in this video
This video is way groovy.
Not a bit boring..
I did something similar in 1991 while underway on a submarine in the Atlantic (we had to repair a large pump and needed to manufacture a part). We did not have any fancy broaches but we did have an old South Bend lathe. I ground down an old style boring tool to make the cutter. It took a minute to cut the keyway but it worked just as well. Nice tips, Quinn.
was that pump for pumping reactor cooling heavy water? 😂
That's a super cool story. I wasn't aware that a submarine would carry a lathe. I'm surprised you had the space for it, and obviously there would be noise/vibration concerns. Out of curiosity, what sort of machining and repair capability did you have? Mill? Welders?
@@aaronclair4489 I think you'll find that most ships and subs have a well tooled machine shop on board.
@@jasongreene303 I know it's not uncommon for very big ships like oil tankers, container ships and aircraft carriers to have at least a lathe and welder on board, if not more. And I can also see how more moderately sized ships, such as cruisers and destroyers probably have such machinery and equipment on board as well. But a submarine?! No way there's room for a lathe on anything but a nuclear submarine and maybe some of the ultra-large diesel-electrics. On top of that the entire name of the game in military submarines is to remain stealthy and silent, running a lathe on board of one must surely give your position away to any other hostile submarines in the area?
@@pieterveenders9793 I do not know what equipment you find on a US sub, but I do know that they often do things aboard that make a lot of noise. They just do not do it when there is a need for stealth. You can also mechanical separate machinery from the hull and reduce a the noise transmitted to the ocean.
You can also use a file. It might be more labor intensive, but after after a week or so you'll be halfway there!
I can feel the callouses and blisters just thinking about it😂😂
I should have learned by now that every time a machinist says "no special tools needed" what they actually mean is "beside a fully equipped workshop"...
@@AttilaAsztalos Yes, and then pulls out the special tool kit!
I have done this when fitting "in the field" It's actually not too slow if you do some "priming cuts" with a hacksaw. (provided you don't have too large a hub diameter to be accommodated by the saw frame.)
Getting the corners of the keyway sharp is possible if you grind an emergency "safety edge" onto one side of your file with your angle grinder.
Yes I agree, she is stool using an expensive milling machine for the alternative.
As always kudos for showing alternate methods and work around from the expensive specialty tool. One of many reasons your content has such value!
Quinn, From an engineer and machinist, you know your stuff. Well presented too. Good job.
Engineer and Machinist! 👍
I've always said that anyone that wants to be an engineer, needs to spend time in a machine shop. Countless times I've argued with engineers that had no concept of what it takes to manufacture some of their ideas that they so easily put on paper without understanding what it takes to fabricate them. Only once in my almost 50 years in the trade, did I work for a company that wasn't a Job shop. They had their own product which they designed and manufactured. It makes it so much easier when the Engineer and the Machinist work side by side to solve any problems they have as it occurs, when manufacturing a new product.
@@charlesmauro5905 I couldn’t agree more with that sentiment. It’s all too unfortunate the amount of “engineers” that can’t/don’t understand that while the things they’ve learned in school are best practices, in real life things don’t actually behave exactly like they do in solidworks.. I had a recent graduate of an engineering program ask a fellow experienced engineer what O.D. and I.D. meant…. It should be mandatory in order to complete your program and get your degree that there’s a certain amount of hours you need to work in a shop, preferably a shop that’s applicable to they type of engineering you want to do. I’m in the states so maybe requirements like exist elsewhere.
@@charlesmauro5905 I got my PhD in biological cybernetics, but while doing my dissertation work I did an apprenticeship in the machine shop of the Max-Planck Institute, beginning with make a square block within tolerances from a chunk of steel using nothing but a file. Throughout my career that training helped me when I wanted a specialist machine or tool made. I could either make it myself or intelligently explain and/or draw my requirements for the machinist. Secretly, I wish I had become a machinist, in spite of having had a successful career in science.
I like your comment on the lathe. An old machinist told me the biggest limit of what a lathe can do is the operators imagination.
Every Sunday morning (Australian time), your videos make me 18% less sad!
I have found that if you use carbide when doing the mill/lathe trick you have to retract the cutter before returning, otherwise the cutting edge chips. HSS seems to handle dragging on the return stroke much better.
A good tip Les. Thanks.
I'm surprised carbide will handle the load. Another reason not to use carbide in a regular shaper. Dragging the tool back across on the return stroke will damage the tip. A hydraulically powered shaper on the other hand automatically moves the tool out of the way. On gear shapers the work retracts out of the way.
@@mpetersen6 It's been many years since I used a shaper but the old geared one's that I used back then all had clapper boxes which prevented the tool dragging on the return.
@@clivehaynes2183 Neat! 😊🌎✨
Your voice delivery and correct terminology use is flawless! Perfect video quality. Thanks also for presenting the cutting audio from broach or cutter passes...it is the sound of Victory!!!
I've zero interest in making a steam engine, but I love the things you are teaching me while you make one.
Same thing here: always wondered how one could cut a slot (in this case, a keyway) on a machine that spins material! My lathe is so much more capable than I am, but you're teaching me to THINK. Very grateful for that, Quinn. Press on!
Brings back memories, I have used all 3 you're methodes .Your'e guidance is good, I was a tool and die maker for 40 + years
Hello!
A relief that this was not about CNC but something so straight.
You have inspired many likeable witty comments!
Watched the full video - very expensive!
Hope you like this comment also!
And here I am 7 months later for a refresher course.
My 16-year-old son needs a key way on a generator pulley on a 49 Plymouth.This will be life changing for him!
I am working on a workmanship program in our company and crossed ways with your channel. I am VERY impressed about the depth and effectiveness of your teaching. doing metal works for 30 years I find all essentials and more covered and super well explained.
The true test of knowledge is one's ability to share it in a clear and simple way! Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I love your humor "for the vitamins, kitty hair, because we're civilized". Priceless! This very old guy appreciates it very much!
I've repeatedly used the lathe "shaping" technique, with the compound at an angle, to scrape grooves into the chambers for barrels destined for roller delayed firearms. It works very well!
@@JimWhitaker it's a German thing. H&K loves the system.
Yes, indeed. Without a fluted chamber you run into serious issues with torn rims and stuck cases in general. The slight grooves allow for the brass to "float" in the chamber and pop free easily after the pressure drops.
I am in the process of re-powering my mill from a single phase motor to a 3 phase with a VFC. Naturally, the original motor is all metric (Korea) and the new one is imperial (US). This has made it necessary to have the mill apart while I modify the motor pulley to fit the new motor. I used the same process with some adaptions (remember, no mill). I ground up a HSS tool bit, similar to the one you made and welded it across the end of a steel bar from my stock pile. Worked fine. I confess that I have done this several times over the years, and used them in both the lathe and the mill. Good vids, keep them coming...........
I worked in a transmission factory back in the 70s, and the job station in front of mine had a broach machine.....a freaking 20 foot long broach would lift and drop into the gears....not just a single key, but an entire splined center for the gear.
It was something to see, and to marvel at the engineering that produced that machine!
Keyways separate the kid machinists from the adults. I have been in awe of internal keyways for years... Having assumed that they were formed on those big expensive machines. Never knew about this awesome process and am indebted! Thank you. Love your videos.
big machine better lets see her do this on a 200mm long 56mm wide keyway
I really appreciate your idea of what 'expensive' is. So many sites/channels I visit have a much different definition. I watch/read for some time, and then find out that this great part/accessory/thing I'm finding out about will cost more than I spent on the machine I'll be using it in. Or the tool I need to make the thing costs far more than just buying the part, or dozens of them. It's true that, sometimes, that's okay, since making the part is the goal, but getting these great tips is so helpful, because I have very little cash to spare!
Love this vid brings back memories. About 40 years ago I designed a part with internal keyways. The shop said it could not be done. Little did they know I worked my way through college as a machinist. Show I showed them the broach and lathe method and told the supervisor to go back to school and don’t question me again. Old folks love to challenge young kids I was 22 at the time
Great video content and I applaud you for warning users of long keyway broaches to frequently release the ram pressure from the top of the broach to prevent accidental breakage. We were taught to always relieve the ram pressure every couple of teeth of broach travel.
Those are some great tips to keep in the back of my head. When I first got started in this stuff, I worked at a machine shop mostly doing operator stuff. They got a job that required a ton of keyways. They went out and bought a vintage keyway machine and had it refreshed by the company. I can't remember how many I ended up cutting. It must have been in the thousands.
So many things to admire about this video....using the correct terms for everything is one. Getting me to learn something new is another. In 1967 I saw a 14 year old pound an Allen wrench in the keyway slot of a go cart shaft, and hack saw off the excess. I knew that was wrong.
Wrong, but it probably got the job done and back out to play! I remember having to make woodruff keys for my motorcycles as a kid too- we lived in the middle of nowhere, and a vise and bench grinder were the most high tech tools we had!🤣🤣
Brilliant! As a complete newbie who inherited a 1937 South Bend Jr. lathe with a missing 16 tooth spur gear that is essential to 90% of all thread cutting operations, and not being able to source one ANYWHERE that had a keyway, this piece of information is like a godsend.Thanks so much for sharing. I'd also like to compliment you on your teaching ability. Speaking with some 36 years of experience on teaching, I know a good teacher when I see one.
Im a new machinist just fixing to graduate my school in april 2023. I wanted to say to you that out of all the videos on youtube, you explain things so well and i enjoy your voice. Thanks for being there for people like me. Your the best and i want to watch all of your videos and plan to do so. Im at the top of my class and already have a job offer at bowing to rehall airplanes in Atlanta, Georgia !! Love you !!!
As a testimonial to your teaching skills, I had actually guessed the three methods you were going to demonstrate before you actually revealed them from information contained in your previous videos. Thanks again, Quinn, for your fine skills as an instructor.
I was looking for a way to put a keyway slot in a gear using my mini lathe. Not only did you show me how but you offered several other viable solutions. I've learned a lot from your videos. Thank you.
5 years ago I agreed to make a few parts that had keyways. I had watched a video showing how to make a broach and use my lathe. Little did I realize how many strokes it takes. I now have an import broach set. But it seems every keyway I want to make requires a bushing I don't have, at least they are easy to make.
5:32 "chamfers are what separate us from the animals"
5:38 "18% less sad"
That stuff cracked me up.
Very nice work .
Thank You.
Now you can say that you showed and taught a woodworker how a keyway is done.
Thank you , Furniture builder of 36 years
As a newby to this engineering & lathe type stuff, I found this really helpful. Thank you!
What a fun demonstration! This jogged a memory of when I made keyways using that mill method back in college because that specialized tool was always either being used or broken by a freshman before the end of their first week in the shop
Ahh, that was BRILLIANT! Thanks Quinn. My 3yo daughter and I love watching your videos.
A tip that I use at my work is to get a sacrificial piece of round bar made to the same dimensions as the workpiece is of a similar material. On the spot where you are looking to have the key way, dill a pilot hole making sure that the exact centre is half into the centre sacrificing bar and half into the work piece, this with making the hole bigger (but not larger than the intended key way size ). Then you use the key way to take out remaining material. OK might be a bit more with making the centre, but it would save on how much effort is needed in the force pushing the key way to final size.
Keep up the great work Blondi and have a great weekend! Phil UK
If your keyway is in the end of a shaft you can also skip the whole keyway cutting step and simply drill across the join between the shaft and your flywheel, pulley or whatever, then insert a dowel pin (or the shank of an old drill cut to size) as the key. I've seen this referred to as a 'dutch key' or 'scotch key' though a round key might be a more useful description. Obviously the torque capacity will not be the same as a square key.
This impressed me enough to subscribe to your channel! I've been a machinist since 1989 and this is the first time I have ever seen a keyway cut with those methods.
Three ways to keyways! Love this. I figured it was going to end up on the lathe.
I saw a My mechanics scooter restoration where he used the "lathe as shaper" technique to make the ribs in the mold for his handlebar grips.
I love Saturdays 😄
So do a small number of us.
Exodus 20: 10.
Exodus 23: 12.
Exodus 31: 15.
Leviticus 23: 3.
Genesis 2: 3.
@@senatorjosephmccarthy2720 you're Jewish then?
Liked her approach and that she thought that an old high speed drill bit that might work well enough for the cutter. A practical way to do things. Well done.
Thank you for sharing your experience, knowledge, humor and skill with such calm and accurate commentary. Great job!
Oh cute! Never looked upon tiny broaches! Drool....
Then turning the lathe into a shaper.
Back and forth, a little at a time.
Cool.
I was in the mood to turn a file into a cutter for a needed slot but used the tiny mill instead. Thank you for this!
Keeps brains ticking.
This is a brilliant video. Only just found ur channel. I love this stuff. I'm learning new things all the time thanks to great ppl like your good self.
That switch to "CNC mode" at 17:22 inspired me to make one of these for our old CNC lathe... one day. 😊
I love your knowledge, tips and humor. Thanks for taking the time to create such great videos for our enjoyment.
I've cut many slots with a modified hacksaw blade and a good old-fashioned file and my micrometer with a the key I'm going to use.
You are a good teacher........a vastly under rated skill. Thank you for this lesson
I was taught the lathe version at school in 1969 from a cranky but brilliant teacher. Your vids are just so easy to listen to. Thanks!. I had to go and have a lie down after watching the lathe method. );
I've been watching your videos on and off for a while, very good content, and the subtle humor is a great touch, personally I think your greatest talent (machine shop wise) is explaining a procedure or concept in simple terms, on more than one occasion you have demonstrated a procedure in a way that is clear, concise and logical and yet at 57 years of age makes me wonder how I never learned or thought of doing the procedure that way before.
All I want is a dollar for every thing I didn't think of.
Demonstrated that "necessity is the mother of invention". Excellent!
Thank you for showing the surface finish on that part. I turned the first round 4-jaw challenge parts on Stan's Logan lathe this weekend and got similar results, which made me sad as well. Emery is the only thing that saved me.
cheers for this video Quin, I was aware of the methods for cutting a keyway on a lathe or mill, but it was really good to see it explained in terms simple enough for me to understand and have it demonstrated so I can follow along!
You earned me right away - New Sub - ME with a machinist heart. Great verbal communication skills. You explained every detail.
"Because...chamfers are what separates us from the animals..." Thanks for my morning smile Quinn.
Abom79 cut some inside oil grooves using the third method, just this past week.
I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. 🙂
For cutting larger width keys, it helps a lot to start with a narrower broach, cut an underwidth keyway, then go to the next size broach. This is good technique for the shaper methods using quill or carriage as well.
Broaches can 'dig in' and cut deep on the bottom end of the hole. If, when you pause the press ram, you see the broach springing over significantly, then you might be pushing it through on an angle. I like to press the broach in for a couple of teeth, then pause and move the work around so that the back of the broach can be eyeballed relative to the press ram (which you lower behind the broach for this test). If you see a wedge like gap behind the broach, then it is going crooked. At this point, it can usually be straightened into vertical position with gentle leverage, then continue to push the broach.
I was trained as a Fitter and Turner in the early 80s, staying in the trade for over 20 years. I have cut a few quite large keyways on lathes. We called it "the Armstrong method" because you needed a strong arm to do a half inch keyway.
I much prefered access to a shaper or a slotter.
I can't imagine doing something like this in 100 years.
My claim to fame is using my HF lathe to trim down some PVC pipe to fit
some hard rubber pipe for the water supply to the house.
This was very interesting to watch and as Always your narration was excellent,
explaining everything very well. thank you
Watched this one from start to finish. First way was most common to me, ways 2 and 3 work good as well. Loved it
I had to use a 25mm broach at work the other day and a 22mm one today on stainless steel...
It takes about 5-6 tonnes to push through each pass.
For bigger keyways we use a slotting machine/shaper.
Beautiful job. Takes me back to my apprentice days back in the late 70's, when I learned how to grind tools for key's and slots, and still use today. You put a lot of time served engineers to shame.🙂
Great tip for us financially challenged people.
Thank you so much Quinn!
"Chamfers separate us from the animals..."
You are now my favourite TH-cam person.
Literally just watched Adam Booth doing this on his lathe to make oil galleries in a brass bushing.
🤗
Edit - the mill could probably be a drill press, so you can probably do this even without a mill or a lathe.
@@ellieprice363 I think that with a bit of creativity and a decent vise, you could probably pull it off. Wouldn't be easy, but I think it could be done.
@@ellieprice363 There are several methods for adjusting the depth of cut. One is to tap the hole the bit sits in and use a short set screw to move the tool bit out of the bore a little each time. Another is to simply incrementally add shim stock or feeler gages between the fixed jaw of the vise and the workpiece. I have used both methods on a drill press with satisfactory results.
@@ellieprice363 True on rigidity... and most drill presses are anything but rigid but with light cuts, 1-2 thou a pass, it is doable. Just gonna take about 125 one thou passes to cut a groove an eighth of an inch deep! I have also done it using the tailstock on a lathe but that gets really tedious. One of the most efficient ways to do keyways without a broach is on a shaper. For splined holes that are not too deep a rotary broach works very well. For ultimate broaching there are linear broaching machines that will do four V8 engine blocks at once. Both decks and the intake deck, and main bearing seats in about 90 seconds a cycle including mounting and dismounting the blocks. There is a video of an old Chrysler plant somewhere on youtube that shows the process.
@@ellieprice363 Well um... just type 'rotary broach' into that "Search" window at the top of the page we are on. I think you can figure the rest of it out. ETA: We can't really post links in youtube comment pages otherwise I could be of even more help :D
Good to see you mention the use of an indexable boring head. I have seen this technique used on a pedestal drill and work very accurately👍
Amazing problem solving tech. Blondi explains every step very well.😊
I made the keyway by turning a plug to fill the hub. Then I drilled a hole centered on the radius thru. The top of the key was ground to a radius to fit the top of the drilled hole. The key has not failed to hold the gear in place on the shaft. The next time I need a keyway cut, I will try the method with the boring bar bit to see if it is any better..
Great demonstration ,always great to know ways to do things without too large of a tool box.
I Have done it with files and chisels too!
I find your videos both informative and soothing. God Bless.
I found it easier when using the lathe method to put a sacrificial shaft in the bore and drill a hole a little undersized to the keyway. Drill it where the shaft meets the bore. I usually start with a couple of drill sizes under the keyway and carefully work my way up. Makes a tedious job much easier.
There you go half the hole on the shaft and half on the other .. then just clean up the corners
Excellent tutorial, I've got to try this, and thanks for the tutorial without background music like so many people feel they have to add to their videos!
"Chamfers are what separates us from the animals".. love it. 🤣
And I learned something today. Logged on to TH-cam to learn something about Halloween setups and now I know 3 ways to cut a keyway. Lol. Nice content. Thanks for sharing.
Would a boring bar accomplish the same thing? Pushing it in and out like you showed?
Not only clever as heck, but a great sense of humour!
You can put the lathe in backgear to lock the spindle as well. Works great on my southbend lathe.
What a great video! I am amazed at the internal keyway on the lathe!
Thanks Karl! 😁
Great demonstrations! You've probably seen a few examples of lever-operated mechanisms mounted on the lathe tool post (with the carriage locked) that move the cutter in and out of the bore. For small (7x14, etc.) and barely-adequate lathes especially, they really seem to take the stress off the carriage-transport gears/rack.
BTW, I just read your commenting policy. I love it! I think other You Tubers should have similar policies--especially the one warning safety trolls that deletion is only a mouse-click away. 👍
That is a great policy! However, I have never been invited to her annual Firefly themed barbecue and now I am sad... :(
Yes, great policy, but there is one minor complaint: The term "mansplaining" seems to suggest a certain bias, which _may be generally justified, but not always._ Females and indeed any imaginable gender/orientation can also fall into the know-it-all rut, at least occasionally. As a man who really does *LISTEN,* I find it unfair to paint us all with the same tarry brush. As an example, my ex-wife was a Critical Care Registered Nurse, dealing mostly with Cardiac cases, and _she would insist to me that "the heart is NOT a pump."_ Utterly wrong, of course, and no appeal to specialist credentials can alter that truth.
@@YodaWhat Well, if it is _generally_ justified, then using the term doesn't suggest bias at all. It's simply employing a generalization which, in this instance, is well-known and widespread. For every female know-it-all, there's ten male ones. So there's more danger of bias in asserting that you're an exception--essentially the eleventh male--and it's unfair to deny the use of a generalization because those who don't fit it are offended. In reality, there's no bias here on either side, but on your side there's the opportunity--which you took--to assert that you're more sensitive than the average bear.
@@tcarney57- The problem with any sort of prejudice is: It's a race to the bottom, and only the worst win such a race, at the bottom. That is not the kind of behavior suggested by the rest of the rules.
"God is not partial and the man (or woman ) that works righteousness is acceptable to him. ( somewhere in Acts of the Apostles )
Another great video! I've used the slotting tool for keyways and a variety of shapes over the years in both my mill and lathe. My own success was a match for yours. It's a great method for the home shop.
One of those was a 60 degree angle push cutter to "hex" out a 9/16 hole to fit over a 14mm hex. This means only forming 6 corners with some short arcs between. The flats on the corners were 2.5 to maybe 3mm wide? And yeah, 1/2 to 3/4 of a thou per push was the limit even on my big lathe for that 5 to 6mm total width of cut for the last few passes. But all in all as you say, a pattern soon sinks in and the job was done in only about 10 minutes for all six corners.
There is another good reason for light cuts to limit the pressure if using our lathe. Namely if there's any lift in the bed that can possibly occur the high pressure of too aggressive a pass will try to lever the carriage up on the angled prismatic ways. That's going to be hard on the contact points of the carriage to bed as well as distort the cut. I know there shouldn't be any lifting up possible. But it's not always a perfect world with perfectly tuned machines, eh?
Best demonstration of broaching I have seen.
I love your sense of humor, educational and entertaining!
I love your channel! Can't believe it took this long to find it.🧐
Quin knows the key way to success.
Great timing, I’ve been trying to get away from using set screws on shafts for a few months but I didn’t want to invest in a broach kit. Thanks!
Great video. I had to cut a keyway last year on an idler pulley. The keyway broke and wallowed out the slot on the idler. I wasn't going to pay $100+ for a 5" pulley on my zero turn. Welded the slot up, bored it back to size and used the lathe to cut the keyway. It would have been much easier on my milling machine but the video I found at the time showed it on a lathe. LOL Only took about 4 hrs, but when your retired that's not bad wages.
As always, short and clear, i really respect your knowledge and craftmanship, thank you very much 😀
When you need to lock the spindle of a lathe for such work, you can often drop it in back gear while still engaged in straight turning, I learned on a thirties era South Bend and currently work on forties era Logan lathes, very similar to the South Bend I worked so many years on. Thanks for an elegant description of fine work.
Asian hobby lathes don’t have back gears
@@Blondihacks A wooden wedge lightly tapped into the gap between the chuck and the bed might be another option. A lot of lathes have induction motors that don't have any 'cogging' points they like to stop in.
I'm so glad I found you. How thorough but straight to the point. Thank you
Was great, as usual, I always learn something. It's good to see someone else turning the handles, so I can catch my mistakes.
About 60 years ago, our workshop foreman could cut keys and keyways by hand, but he did his apprenticeship in the 1920 when it was an essential skill in a fairly remote rural area. I could never match his skill, but I did manage to cut serviceable keys.
Every time I watch you (quite expertly) grind something tiny on the grinding wheel, my heart ooches it's way up into my throat! Thanks for another excellent video
Great techniques! I have wanted one of those sets but now see that for the limited number of keyways that I cut I can make a tool and use my mill. So many things I have learned about machining have come from watching and talking to other machinists. Thanks for the tips!
I've done all 3 methods myself. I have even made an odd size spline coupling for a $60,000 extruder shaft. In a previous job, I used an automatic broaching machine.
I don’t even do metal work and have no intension of doing it but i found this mesmerising, thanks
Great demonstration and techniques Quinn, many don't show the release and reapply on push broaches.
Thanks for sharing 👍.
Best regards from the UK.
@7:10 Aww, missed an opportunity for an "essential oils" pun.
Nice job! Absolutely right that keyway broaches can be a pain to use with just a small arbor press. Even though force is being concentrated just onto those small cutting surfaces, it's all being applied down the length of the way as you cut.
Very well done !! Twenty yr. machinist here , retired . New sub. Cheers . G. Speight
Thanks Quinn for making this Video. I don’t have a Broach Set, so doing it on the Mill or Lathe will be really Handy. Please keep the Videos coming. I have really Learned a Lot from you.👍❤️
I really appreciate the "I have two adequately rigid linear axes, I can do a little bit of light duty shaper work" solution. Machines with spindles can sometimes even switch hit for machines without!
As usual, again a very clear and usefull video.
I already learned so much from your YT video's.
Especially at my early days as a hobby machinist.
Thank you ,You make the difficult seem easy and explain how to get a professional result in the hobby shop .and you have a lot more style than most! .
That seams similar to rifing a barrel and you made it look very easy to do.
I did one time had to change the size of the key with only files so much fun and time.
It did work.