Great video. I really appreciate your relaxed attitude. I have almost every model of Carcano myself, along with French 1886 Lebel, 71/84 Mauser, Snider-Enfield, Martini-Henry, and several hundred other antique and collectable firearms. I am not concerned with my MOA with these old beasts, I just want to make them sing again. Personally I believe that the Carcano's are greatly underappreciated. The ballistic coefficient of that long bullet is excellent. The only time I use the .264 bullet is when I'm loading for the 1870-87-15 converted Italian Vetterli's. Obviously I don't fire full power loads in it, and I really don't even shoot it very often. I look forward to more of your entertaining, relaxed videos.
Thank you for the nice comment. I really enjoy shooting these guns and usually don't concern myself too much with the accuracy. They are highly underrated, and it is a great cartridge for such a light and handy gun. Thanks agian.
From the way that the action is split for the bolt handle cycle the next round one may have to use a scout scope configuration . Which makes sense for that reason. Good video. Thank you.
That 139 grain looked pretty respectable. I also have a ton of IMR 4064. I’ve held off getting a Carcarno for years because of the odd-ball bore. Bought the son a 8x56R Hungarian with the same challenges. (.329-.330 vs .323) PPU is also the only real source for those bullets too. I also picked mine up from Grafs. As long as I can find those PPU bullets I’m not scared now of getting the 6.5 Carcarno. Thx for doing this series!
The 139gr had a .267 diameter and I think loaded and shot better. The sights are really terrible and are the limiting factor. I am pretty happy with what I got and it's fun to shoot. Thanks again 👍👍
Kinda like an old 2 stroke Vespa scooter ~ light, manuverable, crusty and cheap-loooking, but when tuned properly, like most Italian designs, that little rifle delivers surprising performance. Thanks for the real world demo! 🎯
I reloaded with the identical powder bullet and grains and i achieved pretty well the same results with a scoped carbine that is very good shooting with plain sights on your rifle
The carbine sights are very much battle sights. Getting groups with them is impressive. Their principle was this: if you aim center at a 6ft tall target from 0 to 400 meters you will hit them somewhere, be it head to toe. Thats what the battle zero does.
as I was told so long ago these old warhorse from ww1/ww2 and later the army's concerned about driving nails but enemies helmets to out to 100,200,250 meters. that's awesome accuracy trying to hit helmets of the enemies popping their heads up and down in the trenches and you doing the same thing. in trench warfare you can get killed very quickly just quickly poking head up for a quick look. so most cases helmet accuracy was sufficient. papa wishing you well 😊
If you flip that sight forward the sight will be regulated to about 100 meters. I own two, a cavalry carbine like this one, and a Truppe Speciale, one made with a detachable bayonet, used by truck drivers, artillery men, etc. These are well built battle rifles, not the junkers most people claim them to be. The only reason these rifles were deemed inaccurate was because they needed .268 caliber bullets… they perform badly & shoot keyholes with .264 bullets. The tests here prove that they can be as accurate as any battle rifle made.
Well, I do my reloads with 264 diameter bullets for my Carcanos. Made tons of videos on those and their accuracy. One gun channel to another, solid sub from me.
Thanks. I think those loads are good for that rifle. I didn't really see any improvement with higher charges in that short barrel. The pressure on the primers all look good and IMR 4064 worked good for me. I am not after perfection, just a decent shooting load.
I do the same thing. I have over 50 guns and 90% were made before 1945 and all are milsurps. My M41 Carcano long rifle with 264's looked like a 12 gauge with buckshot at 100 yards. My rifle likes the 139 grain . With the 268's it will not miss 10 inch steel plates at 200 yds if I do my part. Going to try some ww760. It is the same powder as the discontinued H414 which Hornady mentions in their load manual
Re the .268s actually being closer to .2665. That's actually what most Italian Military ammo measured at. And FYI Gents, if you search "gunboards 200 meter test" you'll find a Site where a guy tested quite a few different Carcano Loads; including .264s that were quite accurate. The Key is using long Flat- Based Bullets at moderate Velocities !
I've read that the weight is actually as much, if not more of a factor, than projectile diameter. That testimonial stated that apparently 140 grain and up increases the accuracy greatly even for .264 projectiles. If there's any truth in that then the 139 grain PPU ammo should be reasonably on target (?)
@@kyfirearms mine does too , I use the Norma factory 156 grain soft point bullet, I get groups bout two and a half inches at 50 yard, the Norma rounds uses a torpedo shape bullet like the Italian military round, but they are .264 diameter , but I think that bullet design seems to ride the rifling better then your common pointed .264, i am happy using the Norma, maybe you should try a box and make a video , nobody has ever made a video on the Norma 6.5 round. carcano
@@kyfirearms I've formed .300 Savage brass from .308, and 8mm Mauser from 30-06. Works OK. Need a h/d press. I like RockChucker....I've never shot a Carcano ? Accurate ? Tks.
I see that you are shooting the TS Carbine. The original Model 1891s which were longer of course, correct me if I'm wrong but the infantry rifles to include the M38 short rifle and the M41 had Progressive Rifling. Meaning that the long 6.5mm slender bullet would travel up the barrel until mid length then squeezed tighter up till it exited the barrel. The Italians never changed their bullet design of the 6.5X52mm military ammunition. The TS Special Troop carbine was only issued to combat engineers, motorcycle dispatch riders, artillery, and rear troops. Italian soldiers did complain about accuracy with the 1891 during WWI especially the elite Bersaglieri and Alpini troops who were above average marksmen than the regular Italian conscript infantry. The TS carbine was intended for ranges of 300 meters and not more. From your groupings from what I saw is what the Italians wanted for a carbine to do. The worse can be is the bullets would tumble or key hole meaning either the charge is too low or the barrel is shot out using your handloads. War time Italian issued 6.5mm were never under charged because they needed that it operate their infantry machine guns. Machine gun ammo for their Fiat-Revelli and Breda were loaded a bit hotter for better cycling, but using them in regular Carcano rifles the soldier might experience a bit more recoil, this was the only special issue ammo for the Italian Army. Check into the barrel because of the Progressive Rifling, many regular M91s were converted to TS carbines after WWI during the 1920s to save money from building more rifles and cut down many infantry barreled rifles. My friend Uncle Tony a true Carcano fanatic has a bunch of pristine rifles and carbines dating back to the 1960s when these guns were very pristine and unissued never fired still in grease going for $25- 35 Dollars a piece. Coming from RTI, I heard many horror stories about them.
Bed the action to the stock action channel. Use a thin coat of Johnson's paistvwax on the metal release see e agent is what to do is. Free float to he barrel channel.
Stupid comment! Bore was .268 from 1891 through WWII. If he did it, Oswald could have used any milsurp rifle. If he did it, the Carcano was very accurate!
I saw a friend's1936 Gardone in a little rougher condition than yours that was advertised as "good to very good" The descriptions given by RTI are somewhat subjective but the bore was ok, though the bluing is half gone and the stock was beginning to split at the buttstock. Thabk you for this very helpful video!
why I'm the only one to get junk Carcano's from those Companies? As mismatch bolt, rusted or pitted barrels cracks on stock or chipped, horrendous barrels bore, missing parts as front or rear sight, and the list going on and on
It is disappointing. I got lucky a couple of times but also got my fair share of junk. I did get one with a broken sight, but luckily you can find parts for them. It is still very disappointing.
Great video. I really appreciate your relaxed attitude. I have almost every model of Carcano myself, along with French 1886 Lebel, 71/84 Mauser, Snider-Enfield, Martini-Henry, and several hundred other antique and collectable firearms. I am not concerned with my MOA with these old beasts, I just want to make them sing again. Personally I believe that the Carcano's are greatly underappreciated. The ballistic coefficient of that long bullet is excellent. The only time I use the .264 bullet is when I'm loading for the 1870-87-15 converted Italian Vetterli's. Obviously I don't fire full power loads in it, and I really don't even shoot it very often. I look forward to more of your entertaining, relaxed videos.
Thank you for the nice comment. I really enjoy shooting these guns and usually don't concern myself too much with the accuracy. They are highly underrated, and it is a great cartridge for such a light and handy gun. Thanks agian.
Those are descent groups from 50 yds with a "carbine", considering the limitations of the sight picture.
Yes, definitely battle sights. Thanks for the comment. These are fun little rifles and have a lot of great history behind them.
From the way that the action is split for the bolt handle cycle the next round one may have to use a scout scope configuration . Which makes sense for that reason. Good video. Thank you.
Thanks 👍
That 139 grain looked pretty respectable. I also have a ton of IMR 4064. I’ve held off getting a Carcarno for years because of the odd-ball bore. Bought the son a 8x56R Hungarian with the same challenges. (.329-.330 vs .323) PPU is also the only real source for those bullets too. I also picked mine up from Grafs. As long as I can find those PPU bullets I’m not scared now of getting the 6.5 Carcarno. Thx for doing this series!
The 139gr had a .267 diameter and I think loaded and shot better. The sights are really terrible and are the limiting factor. I am pretty happy with what I got and it's fun to shoot. Thanks again 👍👍
A little shocked that you got something that nice from RTI
It took some cleaning up, but still in decent shape. I got a K98 from them that is terrible. Thanks for the comment.
@@kyfirearms yeah, she looks pretty.
Kinda like an old 2 stroke Vespa scooter ~ light, manuverable, crusty and cheap-loooking, but when tuned properly, like most Italian designs, that little rifle delivers surprising performance.
Thanks for the real world demo!
🎯
Thanks, I appreciate it. It is a very handy little package and it will shoot.
I reloaded with the identical powder bullet and grains and i achieved pretty well the same results with a scoped carbine that is very good shooting with plain sights on your rifle
Awesome. Thanks, glad it was a good load for you. I appreciate the comment.👍
Great video
Thanks👍
Totally under appreciated weapon! Love your vid!
They are great little guns. Thanks for the comment. 👍
The carbine sights are very much battle sights. Getting groups with them is impressive. Their principle was this: if you aim center at a 6ft tall target from 0 to 400 meters you will hit them somewhere, be it head to toe. Thats what the battle zero does.
Thanks for the comment. They are neat little guns with great history.
👍 good fun for sure
Yes it was. I was pretty happy with the results as well. Thanks for 👍👍
as I was told so long ago these old warhorse from ww1/ww2 and later the army's concerned about driving nails but enemies helmets to out to 100,200,250 meters. that's awesome accuracy trying to hit helmets of the enemies popping their heads up and down in the trenches and you doing the same thing. in trench warfare you can get killed very quickly just quickly poking head up for a quick look. so most cases helmet accuracy was sufficient. papa wishing you well 😊
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate it. 👍
Good stuff man!
Appreciate it! 👍👍
You should check the production date on those ppu manufactured cartriges they are probably a bit old as ppu started making .268 only since 2018.
I ordered them form Midway last year. I will have to check them. Thanks for the comment.
Was there a big accuracy difference between the 268 diameter rounds and the 264 diameter round, any muzzle velocity difference?
Velocity was the same. I cut my groups from 6 inches down to less than 3 with the larger bullets. Thanks for the comment 👍
If you flip that sight forward the sight will be regulated to about 100 meters. I own two, a cavalry carbine like this one, and a Truppe Speciale, one made with a detachable bayonet, used by truck drivers, artillery men, etc. These are well built battle rifles, not the junkers most people claim them to be. The only reason these rifles were deemed inaccurate was because they needed .268 caliber bullets… they perform badly & shoot keyholes with .264 bullets. The tests here prove that they can be as accurate as any battle rifle made.
Well, I do my reloads with 264 diameter bullets for my Carcanos. Made tons of videos on those and their accuracy. One gun channel to another, solid sub from me.
Thanks 👍. I will have to check out your videos.
Hopefully you’ll find an accurate load that isn’t pushing the pressures too much. Nice looking rifle.
Thanks. I think those loads are good for that rifle. I didn't really see any improvement with higher charges in that short barrel. The pressure on the primers all look good and IMR 4064 worked good for me. I am not after perfection, just a decent shooting load.
I do the same thing. I have over 50 guns and 90% were made before 1945 and all are milsurps. My M41 Carcano long rifle with 264's looked like a 12 gauge with buckshot at 100 yards. My rifle likes the 139 grain . With the 268's it will not miss 10 inch steel plates at 200 yds if I do my part. Going to try some ww760. It is the same powder as the discontinued H414 which Hornady mentions in their load manual
Cool. Thanks for the comment. Mine definitely likes the 268’s.
Re the .268s actually being closer to .2665. That's actually what most Italian Military ammo measured at.
And FYI Gents, if you search "gunboards 200 meter test" you'll find a Site where a guy tested quite a few different Carcano Loads; including .264s that were quite accurate.
The Key is using long Flat- Based Bullets at moderate Velocities !
Good info. Thanks for the comment 👍
I’ve had decent results with Hornady 129gr soft points in Carcano and 6.5 Japanese
I've read that the weight is actually as much, if not more of a factor, than projectile diameter. That testimonial stated that apparently 140 grain and up increases the accuracy greatly even for .264 projectiles. If there's any truth in that then the 139 grain PPU ammo should be reasonably on target (?)
I use ppu 264 dia the dam primers are hot some burn thru
The original bullets measure out the same: 0.2665 and 0.267
I'm looking for some of this ammo. Where can I find it ?
Was the point of impact the same between the 264 and 268 diameter bullets at 50 yards?
They all shoot two feet high. The groups did tighten up quite a bit. Thanks for the comment 👍.
@@kyfirearms mine does too , I use the Norma factory 156 grain soft point bullet, I get groups bout two and a half inches at 50 yard, the Norma rounds uses a torpedo shape bullet like the Italian military round, but they are .264 diameter , but I think that bullet design seems to ride the rifling better then your common pointed .264, i am happy using the Norma, maybe you should try a box and make a video , nobody has ever made a video on the Norma 6.5 round. carcano
Is 6.5 x 52 Carcano brass available ? What other brass can be used to form 6.5 ? Thanks George
I don’t know how to form it. PPU is what I found. Not sure who else makes it.
@@kyfirearms I've formed .300 Savage brass from .308, and 8mm Mauser from 30-06. Works OK. Need a h/d press. I like RockChucker....I've never shot a Carcano ? Accurate ? Tks.
Where did you get your load data I being trying to find data for the 123gr/139gr but I can’t find any? Did you work up your own load
I got it from the Hodgdon website. I always use their website to double check my load books as well. Thanks for the comment.
Where do I get the dies? Is it Lee that makes them? I haven't gone looking, just watched the video. Thanks.
Yes. I am using Lee dies. Thanks for the comment 👍.
What kind of primers?
It was already primed PPU brass, so I am guessing PPU primers. I have only had one that didn't work out of 120 so far. Thanks for the comment.
Mine seems to shoot a couple feet low at 50yds, are they all like that?
Yes The sights are for 300 yards.
Cool , are you planning to cast for it? 👍
Not sure yet. I would like to eventually. I have several rifles that I would like to cast for, just don't have the time right now. Thanks again 👍👍
I see that you are shooting the TS Carbine. The original Model 1891s which were longer of course, correct me if I'm wrong but the infantry rifles to include the M38 short rifle and the M41 had Progressive Rifling. Meaning that the long 6.5mm slender bullet would travel up the barrel until mid length then squeezed tighter up till it exited the barrel. The Italians never changed their bullet design of the 6.5X52mm military ammunition. The TS Special Troop carbine was only issued to combat engineers, motorcycle dispatch riders, artillery, and rear troops. Italian soldiers did complain about accuracy with the 1891 during WWI especially the elite Bersaglieri and Alpini troops who were above average marksmen than the regular Italian conscript infantry. The TS carbine was intended for ranges of 300 meters and not more. From your groupings from what I saw is what the Italians wanted for a carbine to do. The worse can be is the bullets would tumble or key hole meaning either the charge is too low or the barrel is shot out using your handloads. War time Italian issued 6.5mm were never under charged because they needed that it operate their infantry machine guns. Machine gun ammo for their Fiat-Revelli and Breda were loaded a bit hotter for better cycling, but using them in regular Carcano rifles the soldier might experience a bit more recoil, this was the only special issue ammo for the Italian Army. Check into the barrel because of the Progressive Rifling, many regular M91s were converted to TS carbines after WWI during the 1920s to save money from building more rifles and cut down many infantry barreled rifles. My friend Uncle Tony a true Carcano fanatic has a bunch of pristine rifles and carbines dating back to the 1960s when these guns were very pristine and unissued never fired still in grease going for $25- 35 Dollars a piece. Coming from RTI, I heard many horror stories about them.
Thanks for the comment. They are pretty neat little guns and I need to read some more history on them.
I wish Hornady still made their .267" 160 grain, bottle nose bullets.
It was product #2645
Write them and ask for it to be renewed.
That's a good idea. They would sell a ton of those if they brought them back. Thanks for the comment.
@@kyfirearms Norma made it too and quit just a couple of years ago, Need to see if they would make it again!
Might wanna spend some time practicing your trigger control and follow through... you'd be shocked at the difference it makes
Thanks. I always get in a hurry when I am filming.
@@kyfirearms yeah, I just know when I started practicing my trigger control and follow through, I was shocked at how much all of my shooting improved.
Harder not being able to put a scope on something and take as much human error out of the equation.
The sights on that rifle are the limiting factor for accuracy. It was hard to have the same hold for every shot.
I scoped my carbine. Shoots pretty good with my hand loads . I use imr 4320. Works great with my loads. Let's just keep these old battle rifl s alive.
@@timnavarrette3274 absolutely
S&K scope mount no drill or tap with long eye relief scope
Bed the action to the stock action channel. Use a thin coat of Johnson's paistvwax on the metal release see e agent is what to do is. Free float to he barrel channel.
The Bore is 264,put yourself in Oswald's Place!
Stupid comment! Bore was .268 from 1891 through WWII. If he did it, Oswald could have used any milsurp rifle. If he did it, the Carcano was very accurate!
@@ronaldjohnson1474 I saw it in a gun book.maybe I just didn,t phase it right,And Ronald,his answer,will allway;s be Silence,,,,,,,
I saw a friend's1936 Gardone in a little rougher condition than yours that was advertised as "good to very good"
The descriptions given by RTI are somewhat subjective but the bore was ok, though the bluing is half gone and the stock was beginning to split at the buttstock.
Thabk you for this very helpful video!
Thanks for the comment. RTI can be hit or miss. I went over this and cleaned it up quite a bit.
Results 09:45
why I'm the only one to get junk Carcano's from those Companies? As mismatch bolt, rusted or pitted barrels cracks on stock or chipped, horrendous barrels bore, missing parts as front or rear sight, and the list going on and on
It is disappointing. I got lucky a couple of times but also got my fair share of junk. I did get one with a broken sight, but luckily you can find parts for them. It is still very disappointing.
Can you load and operate this rifle without the brass clip? Or is it just for ease of loading 6 shots at once?
I suppose you could single load it, but it is really made to use the clips. It is a drawback of this magazine system. Thanks for the comment.
yes, you can buy a plastic block that can operate for a single shot. It's sold anywhere and on EBay