You all prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me
Your results did not lie. Truly appreciate your feedback. Anybody that can shoot .300 groups at a 1000yds is worth listening to. Thanks for sharing Sir😁👍🍻👊
I love this guy! Educated and not afraid to speak his mind even if the masses are clueless. Very informative! I'm just about getting into reloading so it's amazing to learn these things from him.
Following all your advice from almost a year ago, my groups have tightened up so much, that my other buddies are wanting me to reload their ammo..... I tell them to watch your videos, and not second guess it. I've had more than a few one hole 5 shot groups at 125 yards, since following you. 200 is the furthest we can shoot at the current range. Looking forward to moving further out and learning more. We are recreational shooters, but I still thank you for all you do
Hey guys, get out there n find your own range. I live in E TN and finding a place to get out over a k is rough. I'm a logger for my day job so my rangefinder is always close. We find a place to extend the range a bit and get to it. Keep em in one hole😅🤣😂
WOW So much has changed, but I get the same results. I'm very old school . Started annealing back in the early 70's. You have some very nice equipment. I stand my brass in a tray, full of water to about half way up the brass. I use a needle tip just like you. I point the flame vertically down the middle of the neck, heat till red orange, then tip it over in the water. It works really well for me, and I haven't spent a lot of money. When is started with 7TCU, I lost about 85% of my brass. After annealing, I only lost 4 or 5%. WELL DONE.
I started annealing for my 7 mag. I watched closely with new cases while fire forming. I then annealed the brass just like this. Did a fl resize at .002 and used a bushing die and had neck tension at .002. What happened next was lower es and sd. My groups were consistent. This stuff works and I really see the results at 700+ yards
Erik's solid plus. Hope you've been availing yourself of all his videos. I do, repeatedly and long term. And he can even build a Barndominium for you!!!
This is an excellent video. I love how you simplify reloading and dispel some of the commonly held myths. So many others try to make it into “rocket science”. So much for the sales of Tempilaq
First time I met Mr. Cortina, he was installing a Barndominium at Demo HQ. I then watched his high-quality camera work of the same build site (:D) and watched some of his videos of past builds his company has done. While watching some reloading channels this week, this one pops up as a suggested video. Lo and behold, I had no idea Erik was such an accomplished marksman. Glad to have found my way to the right channel Erik.
This video is exactly what I needed for annealing; I've always been so worried that if I go like 1 second too long then my brass is ruined because "they" say the window for annealing vs overdoing brass is so small. Thank you! You're videos are excellent!
Annealing brass is a step that is super easy to do (and do adequately) and hard to perfect. I think way too many people put way too much thought into it. The purpose is to extend brass life and eliminate work hardening. Sure, the goal is for consistent neck tension thus higher accuracy, but time under heat per brass lot is more important than getting to an exact temperature within .5*. Without measuring the temperature perfectly in every case, all we're doing is eyeballing anyway.
I learned about annealing a couple years ago, I don't shoot thousands so I use the salt bath method. I can see an extension in the life of my brass since i started to anneal. I too wondered about over doing the process. This helps a bunch. Thanks again for helping all of us out here.
Check out Elfster’s Rifles and Reloading channel on TH-cam, he has recently reviewed an Annealing machine he designed that won’t break the bank . It should be affordable for many reloaders .
Weather someone thinks your doing it right or wrong that really don't matter, the point of this is to show how you do it and to share your knowledge on your video's. And if it works for you then thats all that matters. I learn alot from your video's thank you
Question i got a browning 28 nosler xbolt lr hunter. im reloading my own hunting ammo ELD-X 175gr. I prep my brass accordingly and im loading minimum powder load 77gr of h1000 and .007 of the lands 3127 fps using nosler brass and got my groups where i want. the bullets all touching each other on target, but i got a problem when i shoot my bolt sticks. Can you tell me what im doing wrong plz
@@josephhcondo7281 I'm not Eric. I would suggest checking how your stock is mating with your barrel. Sounds like maybe your barrel isn't free-floated. When you put the rifle on the sticks, you're getting uneven pressure on the stock causing it to make contact with the barrel. Put a dollar bill between your barrel and stock. Place it on your sticks and see if you can move the dollar freely. It's either the stock making contact, or the shooter being inconsistent. Not the same cheek weld, leaning too far in or too far back. Too much to one side.... etc.
Great discussion on annealing! For those of us that are not into PRS and load mostly for hunting; we still benefit from this good information. For us annealing is mostly done to extend brass life. The old rule was to anneal every 3 or 4th firing. However we quickly discovered that doing it more frequently often improved accuracy. Thanks for the info on over annealing as this always seems to be of concern.
I made an induction annealer. It anneals 308 in 2-4 seconds depending on manufacturer (winchester is the lowest time at 2.4 seconds). At 2.6 seconds, my annealer makes the 308 case a puddle. Nice to see the flame method isn't so quick to destroy. \
I have noticed, including in this video, that when the flame changes color, pull it from the heat. The flame bouncing off the brass will change to a orange flame. I have verified this with 750⁰ F templac.
Thanks! I went back and saw what you mean about the color change.......will apply that to my Giraud annealer and see if it helps. I have two diff templacs I should be using but I'm an old fart and get impatient and/or forgetful.
I grabbed a Annealeez this spring and have been terrified to anneal my Lapua brass... of all the videos I have watch and all the shooters I talked to... this demo gives me comfort..... I was definitely was over thinking this👍👍
thanks for the information. I ended up getting an EP 2.0 annealer and i REALLY like it! ready to anneal out of the box & easy to switch from cartridge to cartridge without swapping out any parts and switches over in seconds.
Hi Erik Just to let you know I just finished listening to you on the Australian hunting podcast , thank you for giving us your time and experience. Steve from Australia.
Good video. Glad to see you pull that Machinists Handbook out. That has all the info about metals that you will ever need. And nice to see you air cooling instead of water qwenching.
.. Erik Thank you so much for your Loading Videos . I now know what im doing , Save so much time loading after watching your videos and enjoy shooting my rifle because i now understand the direction to make it shoot small .. Going to a 1000 meter range soon .
Excelent video. 1 thought. There is a theory that over annealing will burn some of the ingredients in the brass making it weaker & dangerous. I think this video may have dispelled that theory. Great experiment Erik. Rock on Bro.
@@rdsii64 The theory is when its red hot its burning zinc out of the brass, That theory is false as the only way to burn out the zinc is to basically turn the brass case into liquid form!
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I’ve always worried about over heating and weakening case head, Webb, and body. Now I know that I should add another second to my timer.
Erik...I liked that video...just investigation with good, clear info and shots of the results and no "preaching"....you showed the brass annealing setups and results that led you to your decisions. GREAT! I've been screwing around with a DIY (induction) annealer for several calibers and I'm gonna assume that the brass case color thing will hold pretty true across them all and I'll mostly have to adjust times and things like that (AND take a LOTS of notes so I can duplicate the desirable results). I was getting pretty tired of screwing with my flame annealer (also a DIY rig) Thanks for the very clear info and also the interesting and useful demonstration! PS...Maybe I was a tad bit hard on your for your teaching methods in another vid, but you did VERY well in this one! It made a lot of sense to me and I LOVED it!!
I can't wait to see what you learn about the AMP annealer. In the past I tried some flame annealing. About a year ago, I invested in an AMP annealer, and used it all summer. I was very happy with the results. I want to see what your tests show. It will be very interesting. Keep up the good work.
I have the same annealer, I use a 20lb bottle, and a hose splitter with two hoses connected to the same bottle. And then use zip ties to tie the two hoses together for my location. That way I don’t have to worry about two separate bottles, and how full each bottle is and if one will run out before the other.
When I got my AMP Annealer I still kept the BenchSource. While it takes me a bit longer to setup right, it‘s so much faster at annealing larger batches of brass. AMP is like a premium single stage press while the Bench Source is like a nice progressive press 😅
I just got the Annealeez flame annealer. I chose it due to it’s low price ($275) and ability to be loaded with a bunch of cases and then just let ‘er go. I am not a competitive BR shooter, just a prairie dogging guy who shoots them out to 500-800 yards. I am old now, so have started to move from 22-250 and long range to 221 Fireball and 223, most shots around 200-230 yards but shoot a few mostly early morning hits out to 350-500. I want longer brass life due to the huge FBO and FJB price increases of brass (and all reloading supplies) and would like that little bit better accuracy annealing and shoulder bumping every time can bring.
I have learned a lot from watching your videos. And now add another to the list...the more you work it, the harder it gets. Hahaha. Great video and keep up the great information!
Good info. I also figured why I "cooked" my brass when I was trying to anneal by eyeball...I was doing it under fairly bright light with sun shining in through the window. By the time I saw an orange glow it was hot, hot, hot, LOL. I didn't think I ruined the brass, but was a little worried I had shortened the life of those cases. To me it seemed like it had softened the neck and shoulder a lot. BTW, I'm still running some of those pieces for practice ammo.
How did that turn out? I did that same thing to about 50 x 22-250 cases of Rem No brass I’d neck turned. I hope I can recover them(!) after hand flame annealing too much so I can continue to shoot them.
@@daboogster7639 as I said, I used mine as practice ammo only and it seems they all held up. I have tried to keep those pieces segregated and have not had any fail yet.
@@Halfmilesniper thanks for your fast reply! I’d think with a couple shootings, they’d be hardened again. As long as you wear safety glasses should a case pop. Lots Of gas!
I really love it! A winning F Class shooter like Erik "doing it wrong". How arrogant and ignorant. If these guys would sit back and watch these reloding tips with an open mind and realize who is doing these, and give these processes a try, then they might just find out that they are the ones who have been "doing it wrong". Erik has never steered me wrong and thank you Erik for this blessing!
Your seating force is going to be affected by the oxidization layer created by heating the brass to red hot. You would likely get different results(might still be consistent in each separate batch) if you ran them through a wet tumbler with pins after the annealing process. Also, the problem with over annealing isn't necessarily about ruining neck tension. The danger is heating the brass to the point the base gets hot enough to soften which can result in case head separation.
Figured I'd reply to my own comment to say I appreciate the work you put into(especially when you're obviously a busy man) and the information relayed in your videos. I've already added some of your tips into my own precision reloading practices.
You realise you need to run it for SO LONG before the base gets touched? He ran it 10 seconds to demonstrate, even then I doubt the base is anywhere near the temperature it needs to be soft.. The neck would probably melt before the base gets hot enough, if you use gas. Sure, if you run it 30 sec with 1 torch you might get there, but if you are hot enoug to make it in 5-8, its quite low risk.
@@jmkhenka Well, first of all. I never said that Eric softened his bases. Just expanded on the fact that neck tension wasn't the only thing to worry about when over annealing brass. Second I just ran a test using tempilac 650f(a paint that melts when it reaches 650f) and some federal .308 brass(didn't want to cook my lapua) I placed a strip down the side of the case and after ten seconds on the exact same annealing machine with two propane torches(map burns hotter) I can verify that 3/4 of the way down the case reached 650f at 10 seconds into the test. On shorter brass this would happen much faster. In the instructions for the bench source annealer it states that you should put 400F tempilac(I don't have any) at that same location where my 650 melted at 10 seconds and remove the brass from the flame before it melts. They also state that in their testing it took 4-4.5 seconds to properly anneal a piece of .308 brass. Brass is an excellent conductor of heat which I also proved by burning my finger grabbing it at the base when I put it through the first time for 1 second to test the torch height/location....
Hey gentlemen, just to add to "the mix", the cartridge brass alloy seems to differ quite a bit among the manufacturers. Interesting discussions, I think...but, I'm just a simple 'lurker'. Stay well, you-all!
@@lohikarhu734 You're absolutely correct. You can only make generalizations when using different brands/types of brass. The fact that they are different weights alone means they are going to heat at different rates. I just weighed three diff empty .308 cases on my FX120 scientific scale and they came out to Lapua(173.62gn) Federal(176.40gn) and Hornady(185.86gn). Works out to a 6.5% difference between the highest/lowest and more mass means it takes more time to heat. Different alloy composition will react differently as well. I test each type/brand I use with the Tempilac to make sure and then record the results to be referenced later.
We did a similar experiment. We were die forming .30-06 military brass into 7mm Mauser. We trimmed the fired 06' cases on a lathe, de-burred them, annealed, formed, full length sizd, trimmed and tumbled them.. We found that around 14 seconds gave us a good form with no negative effects. We did 200 for a customer and have reloaded each case 4 times since without issue (annealed each at 4 seconds each time since).
Great video again Erik. You've also eased a concern of mine. I made my own induction annealer (fun project) and have been very wary of how long to heat the brass for (edging more on the side of under rather than over) - looks like I really shouldn't worry as much.
Your process makes sense and obviously works. Tempilaq temp. sensitive paint (for setup) makes me happy. Maybe it’s a little contradictory that I cook steaks by feel, but there it is.
I bought an Aneeleze machine for $275 and it works like a charm, extra wheel kit for magnum cartridges is an extra $25. It uses 1 flame and rotates the case in the horizontal position. I can load around 200 .223 and maybe 150 .308 at a time. Totally adjustable for time and flame position, very easy to use. I use the same method of beginning to see orange with the lights off. Doesn't take up much bench space.
Great video! I annealed some brass after watching this with my home made set up that's pretty crude. Used a stationary propane bottle and a variable speed drill with a 5" 3/8" drill bit. Slid the 45/70 cases over the drill bit and rotated the brass into the flame until a light orange color. About 9 seconds and allowed them to air cool. By the way the caseslid right off by tilting down a little and letting them fall into a wooden box. I was afraid to do this in faer of over heating until watching your video. I am anxious to get to the range and watch your next video! Thanks, Frank
Thanks for that. The neck being more flexible and able to expand a fill the chamber helps to contain the gasses and flex faster to "seal" the chamber quicker and better.
Great video as always. Thank you! I actually use a different annealing method - but I think it’s just a matter of taste. My annealing method is a salt bath at 550degC. I use a Lee Lead Melter, a cheap chinese PID controller, and 50/50 mixture by weight of potassium nitrate (Spectracide Stump Killer) and sodium nitrate (Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda 16-0-0 fertilizer). For my 308, I typically do a 6-second dip (timed by iPhone metronome app) and then I throw them in soapy water to wash the salts away.
Like Eric said in his video.. My method works for me. When I anneal I can feel a huge reduction in force needed to resize my brass. So whichever annealing method you choose (flame, salt bath, or induction) I think everyone needs to do it.
Man thank you so much. I've been wasting so much supplies thinking the salt bath annealing was doing something. I couldn't actually find a good load until this video. I went ahead and did 50 cases with a drill and a torch and worked up a ladder. Dang man it was a huge difference. I now have a load that shoots sub moa out of my AR10. I've been struggling for 3 years
@JamesPettinato man I've actually started to see this myself. Federal Gold Medal Match isn't crimped and the neck tension isn't hardly anything. I need to get back to reloading now that everything is settling down
I have some once fired Remington brass that had one cracked neck in a box of 20. Cleaned and annealed the other 19 and when resizing they bumped back .005 more than normal.
Great demonstration, Erik. I think you can add immeasurably to this by showing seating force improvements thru annealing as compared to un annealed brass with up to 10 cycles on it. That would prove conclusively that annealing brass has value, and how often it should be done to maintain good consistent neck tension.
when you're bending brass back and forth at 2:56 this is called successive over relaxation of the material. It's a mechanical engineering term. It relates to upset welding among other things
Erik Cortina - Pro Shooter, Anneal is a heat treatment of the metal decrease the hardness, most likely your 6 sec on the machine. The 10 sec process you've done is call normalizing. Normalizing is to improve ductility (improve to reduce the chance to break when you bend it). Normalizing heat treatment needs the piece to cool down slowly (air cooling). The issues to over-anneal with propane or Bernzomatic torch is the temperature around 3600F and the melting point of brass is depending composition around 1700F so you gonna melt the brass or deformate it. At the end: Remove hardness - Annealing with slow cool down (in air) Improve ductility - Normalizing (Annealing + 150F) with slow air cool down Increase hardness - annealing with rapid cold down (in water)
Great info, I’m considering reloading my 5.56 ammo and noticed you use 1 lb propane bottles for your heat. I came across Flameking refillable bottles a couple of years ago and have never had to buy another green bottle. You can refill the Flameking bottles from your 20lb grill tank and fill it 20 times on a 20lb tank and there is no limit to how many times you can refill it. Plus they are DOT certified refillable and legal to transport. A big money saver on propane 1lb bottles. I keep 4 on hand to run all my products that need gas. I got mine on Amazon. Hope this may help cut some cost and it’s easy to refill, watch some videos on TH-cam if you have some questions. Again thanks for sharing the tips. Jim C
anneal is just softens the alloys crystal and have return to big crystal structure. when it worked forming it stretched those crystals structure that make is brittle and usually structurely harder. you also need best let it cold off slowly is key to true annealing. it is need to reach close to before its melting temp and then slowly cool. you can technically do the reverse when heating it up high and quench it introduce hardening back into the crystal structure.
Always enjoyable. Thanks Erik. The temperature the brass is raised to is most important. I use a product named "Tempilaq" to ensure the same temperature is reached when first setting up to do a batch. You can get it from Brownells.
I tried it for a long time and just couldn’t get consistent results. Then I had to clean the brass after using it. So I just started watching the flame and it told me everything I needed to know. :)
@@ErikCortina Consistency is definitely most important. Did you or have you tried any different way of measuring the brass annealing temperature other than the visual method you described?
@@mikerusling1891 "GRAIN SIZE PRODUCED BY RECRYSTALLIZATION & COALESCENCE IN COLD ROLLED CARTRIDGE BRASS" Download this study & get the facts for yourself. There's excellent time vs temp vs hardness tables starting at page 29. To get a good understanding, try to read the entire report. Regards..............Rotas
For consistent results and to make any sense of this neck pressure test / you need to remove primers in all batches or leave primers in all tested cases.
Me: watching all your videos, learning how to load the most accurate freedom seeds possible. Also Me: Dumping 25 grains of Varget into .556 range brass, topped with the cheapest bullets I can find...
i just used this “method” on r-p rem 223 brass and 1. so small of neck tension you can push the bullet inside the case 2. some necks were crooked as hell after sizing / expander mandrel (was done with a single torch merhod)
I have a jig to hold 20 cases in a row, just use a torch by hand to anneal my brass. Simple and effective. I anneal after every 3 firings for my PRS rounds, every 5 or 6 for my practice and defensive ammo. When the primer pockets become too loose, I discard the brass for recycling.
There is always that one guy that has to differ with you, Mr. Cortina but your records speak for itself so you must be doing something right! Thanks for all the information.
I use a cordless drill will a long socket the angle of the drill is perfect but I need to work on the distance to the flame I just turn the lights off and let it run until dull orange. Like the pressure gauge and dye 👍
Eric, I appreciate all the knowledge shared. As an avid hunter but only an average handloader im not sure I will ever need to anneal brass (due to lack of shooting and having lots of brass to shoot). But I was wondering if annealing can be done in the oven? Thanks again for all the knowledge shared.
Reloaders - can we please take a moment and Give Thanks for Erik Cortina and his wealth of knowledge he shares with us! Giving Thanks
And the jokes
Thanx Erik
I shall light 5 grains of powder as an offering
@@trumpeteer211I will triple that in Retumbo!!!😂
A lot of people will not share their knowledge. I am grateful that there’s people that will share!
You all prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me
I have been reloading for 50 years, and have learned more in the past month than the frist 50 years.
Your results did not lie. Truly appreciate your feedback. Anybody that can shoot .300 groups at a 1000yds is worth listening to. Thanks for sharing Sir😁👍🍻👊
1.068 is the world record at 1000.
how much is God given talent,like being able to shoot asprins out of the air with a bow and arrow? Thanx Eric !!!
@@seanbrown7954 0.3 moa
I love this guy! Educated and not afraid to speak his mind even if the masses are clueless. Very informative! I'm just about getting into reloading so it's amazing to learn these things from him.
Following all your advice from almost a year ago, my groups have tightened up so much, that my other buddies are wanting me to reload their ammo..... I tell them to watch your videos, and not second guess it. I've had more than a few one hole 5 shot groups at 125 yards, since following you. 200 is the furthest we can shoot at the current range. Looking forward to moving further out and learning more. We are recreational shooters, but I still thank you for all you do
Thank you.
I'm having that same problem! Seams to be contagious 😁🤣😂
Hey guys, get out there n find your own range. I live in E TN and finding a place to get out over a k is rough. I'm a logger for my day job so my rangefinder is always close. We find a place to extend the range a bit and get to it. Keep em in one hole😅🤣😂
WOW So much has changed, but I get the same results. I'm very old school . Started annealing back in the early 70's. You have some very nice equipment. I stand my brass in a tray, full of water to about half way up the brass. I use a needle tip just like you. I point the flame vertically down the middle of the neck, heat till red orange, then tip it over in the water. It works really well for me, and I haven't spent a lot of money. When is started with 7TCU, I lost about 85% of my brass. After annealing, I only lost 4 or 5%. WELL DONE.
1:30 ... Yes Erik.... Yes it does... and there is in fact, a very significant change in neck tension...😎
Finally, someone explained it in a way that I can understand.it.
I started annealing for my 7 mag. I watched closely with new cases while fire forming. I then annealed the brass just like this. Did a fl resize at .002 and used a bushing die and had neck tension at .002. What happened next was lower es and sd. My groups were consistent. This stuff works and I really see the results at 700+ yards
This is the clearest, best demonstration / explanation I have ever seen on the topic of annealing
THANK YOU
Erik's solid plus. Hope you've been availing yourself of all his videos. I do, repeatedly and long term. And he can even build a Barndominium for you!!!
This is an excellent video. I love how you simplify reloading and dispel some of the commonly held myths. So many others try to make it into “rocket science”. So much for the sales of Tempilaq
First time I met Mr. Cortina, he was installing a Barndominium at Demo HQ. I then watched his high-quality camera work of the same build site (:D) and watched some of his videos of past builds his company has done. While watching some reloading channels this week, this one pops up as a suggested video. Lo and behold, I had no idea Erik was such an accomplished marksman. Glad to have found my way to the right channel Erik.
This video is exactly what I needed for annealing; I've always been so worried that if I go like 1 second too long then my brass is ruined because "they" say the window for annealing vs overdoing brass is so small. Thank you! You're videos are excellent!
Annealing brass is a step that is super easy to do (and do adequately) and hard to perfect. I think way too many people put way too much thought into it. The purpose is to extend brass life and eliminate work hardening.
Sure, the goal is for consistent neck tension thus higher accuracy, but time under heat per brass lot is more important than getting to an exact temperature within .5*. Without measuring the temperature perfectly in every case, all we're doing is eyeballing anyway.
Gracias amigo! I built a DIY annealer and now I feel 100% confident I'm doing it right and getting consistent results.
I learned about annealing a couple years ago, I don't shoot thousands so I use the salt bath method. I can see an extension in the life of my brass since i started to anneal. I too wondered about over doing the process. This helps a bunch. Thanks again for helping all of us out here.
Can you show the difference between quenching and air cooling?
Also show over annealing - when the brass becomes butter soft
I don't have an annealing machine yet, I use a drill and socket so this video takes a LOT of my worry out of annealing. Thanks again, EC.
That's exactly what i do! Us poor folk 😂
Same here
I do the water on turn table. Saw it on a video and made it with a barbaque motor. Basicly the same as the socket. Just keeps the case head cool.
Check out Elfster’s Rifles and Reloading channel on TH-cam, he has recently reviewed an Annealing machine he designed that won’t break the bank . It should be affordable for many reloaders .
Drill and torch works for me as I don’t load 100’s at a time. Drill and torch I have in my shop, no need to blow more cash.
Weather someone thinks your doing it right or wrong that really don't matter, the point of this is to show how you do it and to share your knowledge on your video's. And if it works for you then thats all that matters. I learn alot from your video's thank you
Question i got a browning 28 nosler xbolt lr hunter. im reloading my own hunting ammo ELD-X 175gr. I prep my brass accordingly and im loading minimum powder load 77gr of h1000 and .007 of the lands 3127 fps using nosler brass and got my groups where i want. the bullets all touching each other on target, but i got a problem when i shoot my bolt sticks. Can you tell me what im doing wrong plz
@@josephhcondo7281 I'm not Eric. I would suggest checking how your stock is mating with your barrel. Sounds like maybe your barrel isn't free-floated. When you put the rifle on the sticks, you're getting uneven pressure on the stock causing it to make contact with the barrel. Put a dollar bill between your barrel and stock. Place it on your sticks and see if you can move the dollar freely.
It's either the stock making contact, or the shooter being inconsistent. Not the same cheek weld, leaning too far in or too far back. Too much to one side.... etc.
Great discussion on annealing! For those of us that are not into PRS and load mostly for hunting; we still benefit from this good information. For us annealing is mostly done to extend brass life. The old rule was to anneal every 3 or 4th firing. However we quickly discovered that doing it more frequently often improved accuracy. Thanks for the info on over annealing as this always seems to be of concern.
I was taught the same, as soon as flame starts turning orange it's done.
Very simple and consistent
Yep, did it way back in the 60s when I was into shooting paper a lot. Consistency in every little part is the answer.
Thanks for a great video Erik. Can't wait to see the difference.
Eric thank you for all the knowledge you are passing down. We truly appreciate it.
I made an induction annealer. It anneals 308 in 2-4 seconds depending on manufacturer (winchester is the lowest time at 2.4 seconds). At 2.6 seconds, my annealer makes the 308 case a puddle. Nice to see the flame method isn't so quick to destroy. \
I have noticed, including in this video, that when the flame changes color, pull it from the heat. The flame bouncing off the brass will change to a orange flame.
I have verified this with 750⁰ F templac.
Thanks!
I went back and saw what you mean about the color change.......will apply that to my Giraud annealer and see if it helps. I have two diff templacs I should be using but I'm an old fart and get impatient and/or forgetful.
top video 👍. i am looking forward to the comparison flame annealer to AMP induction annealer 🍀🍀
I grabbed a Annealeez this spring and have been terrified to anneal my Lapua brass... of all the videos I have watch and all the shooters I talked to... this demo gives me comfort..... I was definitely was over thinking this👍👍
thanks for the information. I ended up getting an EP 2.0 annealer and i REALLY like it! ready to anneal out of the box & easy to switch from cartridge to cartridge without swapping out any parts and switches over in seconds.
You are a excellent teacher. You explain it very well that even a beginner can understand why and how.
Nice “Show and tell”, Eric! Thanks.
Thanks EC, that's what I was looking for because I don't have an automatic table either.
Thankyou Eric. The best video I've seen yet. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Hi Erik
Just to let you know I just finished listening to you on the Australian hunting podcast , thank you for giving us your time and experience. Steve from Australia.
Thank you, Eric for sharing
My pleasure!
Thanks. Buddy I have never annealed but since brass is getting hard to find going to start
Good video. Glad to see you pull that Machinists Handbook out. That has all the info about metals that you will ever need. And nice to see you air cooling instead of water qwenching.
I thought water quench was a necessary part of the annealing process for brass and helped to achieve the necessary hardness. Can anyone clarify?
@@Denvertubester the brass cools so quickly there is no chance of residual heat causing any problems.
.. Erik Thank you so much for your Loading Videos . I now know what im doing , Save so much time loading after watching your videos and enjoy shooting my rifle because i now understand the direction to make it shoot small .. Going to a 1000 meter range soon .
Lmao,, Giggling like a school boy,, NEVER EVER LOSE THAT 10 YEAR OLD KID THATS INSIDE ALL OF US!
That's what she said...
@@ffjsb Well, you know what I say about kids, they're all pink on the inside.
-Mr. Grazier, Troop 69 Scout Master
Thank you for taking the time to do this video Erik !
Excelent video. 1 thought. There is a theory that over annealing will burn some of the ingredients in the brass making it weaker & dangerous. I think this video may have dispelled that theory. Great experiment Erik. Rock on Bro.
Remember this is a sample size of one. That theory may be true(er) with some brands and not so much with others.
My annealing machine works also with a torch flame. I've never seen this kind of issues. Maybe it can happen if you heat the brass too long ?
@@rdsii64 The theory is when its red hot its burning zinc out of the brass, That theory is false as the only way to burn out the zinc is to basically turn the brass case into liquid form!
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I’ve always worried about over heating and weakening case head, Webb, and body. Now I know that I should add another second to my timer.
Erik...I liked that video...just investigation with good, clear info and shots of the results and no "preaching"....you showed the brass annealing setups and results that led you to your decisions. GREAT! I've been screwing around with a DIY (induction) annealer for several calibers and I'm gonna assume that the brass case color thing will hold pretty true across them all and I'll mostly have to adjust times and things like that (AND take a LOTS of notes so I can duplicate the desirable results). I was getting pretty tired of screwing with my flame annealer (also a DIY rig) Thanks for the very clear info and also the interesting and useful demonstration!
PS...Maybe I was a tad bit hard on your for your teaching methods in another vid, but you did VERY well in this one! It made a lot of sense to me and I LOVED it!!
Thank you Erik, you answered my questions on the subject of annealing.
I can't wait to see what you learn about the AMP annealer. In the past I tried some flame annealing. About a year ago, I invested in an AMP annealer, and used it all summer. I was very happy with the results. I want to see what your tests show. It will be very interesting. Keep up the good work.
I love my AMP annealer
Thanks great information. I am still using the drill and socket . I have always wondered about the temperature for the brass.
I just found your channel. Thank you for all these informative videos. That seating set up that shows pressure is really trick.
I have the same annealer, I use a 20lb bottle, and a hose splitter with two hoses connected to the same bottle. And then use zip ties to tie the two hoses together for my location. That way I don’t have to worry about two separate bottles, and how full each bottle is and if one will run out before the other.
Very nice job explaining the process. Now i have to try it for myself and compare results , Thanks again .
When I got my AMP Annealer I still kept the BenchSource. While it takes me a bit longer to setup right, it‘s so much faster at annealing larger batches of brass. AMP is like a premium single stage press while the Bench Source is like a nice progressive press 😅
100% with you, Ive annealed 1200pcs of 308 in less than 2hrs.....I don't have the patience for the AMP.
I just got the Annealeez flame annealer. I chose it due to it’s low price ($275) and ability to be loaded with a bunch of cases and then just let ‘er go. I am not a competitive BR shooter, just a prairie dogging guy who shoots them out to 500-800 yards. I am old now, so have started to move from 22-250 and long range to 221 Fireball and 223, most shots around 200-230 yards but shoot a few mostly early morning hits out to 350-500. I want longer brass life due to the huge FBO and FJB price increases of brass (and all reloading supplies) and would like that little bit better accuracy annealing and shoulder bumping every time can bring.
I have learned a lot from watching your videos. And now add another to the list...the more you work it, the harder it gets. Hahaha. Great video and keep up the great information!
Good info. I also figured why I "cooked" my brass when I was trying to anneal by eyeball...I was doing it under fairly bright light with sun shining in through the window. By the time I saw an orange glow it was hot, hot, hot, LOL. I didn't think I ruined the brass, but was a little worried I had shortened the life of those cases. To me it seemed like it had softened the neck and shoulder a lot. BTW, I'm still running some of those pieces for practice ammo.
How did that turn out? I did that same thing to about 50 x 22-250 cases of Rem No brass I’d neck turned. I hope I can recover them(!) after hand flame annealing too much so I can continue to shoot them.
@@daboogster7639 as I said, I used mine as practice ammo only and it seems they all held up. I have tried to keep those pieces segregated and have not had any fail yet.
@@Halfmilesniper thanks for your fast reply!
I’d think with a couple shootings, they’d be hardened again. As long as you wear safety glasses should a case pop. Lots
Of gas!
Great vid. Just started messing with annealing. Thanks much for all vids. Do what I can to catch them.
This helped me out very much! I justloaded some brass that I was told in other videos that said that I over did it, but yet I had good neck tension.
I really love it! A winning F Class shooter like Erik "doing it wrong". How arrogant and ignorant. If these guys would sit back and watch these reloding tips with an open mind and realize who is doing these, and give these processes a try, then they might just find out that they are the ones who have been "doing it wrong". Erik has never steered me wrong and thank you Erik for this blessing!
Eric, Induction annealing! Annealing made perfect. AMP works great. You cant do it wrong.
Hopefully your proven wrong in the test. 2 grand is a new rifle.
You are hilarious you held your composure much better than I would have talking about annealing good for you brother
Your seating force is going to be affected by the oxidization layer created by heating the brass to red hot. You would likely get different results(might still be consistent in each separate batch) if you ran them through a wet tumbler with pins after the annealing process. Also, the problem with over annealing isn't necessarily about ruining neck tension. The danger is heating the brass to the point the base gets hot enough to soften which can result in case head separation.
Figured I'd reply to my own comment to say I appreciate the work you put into(especially when you're obviously a busy man) and the information relayed in your videos. I've already added some of your tips into my own precision reloading practices.
You realise you need to run it for SO LONG before the base gets touched? He ran it 10 seconds to demonstrate, even then I doubt the base is anywhere near the temperature it needs to be soft.. The neck would probably melt before the base gets hot enough, if you use gas. Sure, if you run it 30 sec with 1 torch you might get there, but if you are hot enoug to make it in 5-8, its quite low risk.
@@jmkhenka Well, first of all. I never said that Eric softened his bases. Just expanded on the fact that neck tension wasn't the only thing to worry about when over annealing brass. Second I just ran a test using tempilac 650f(a paint that melts when it reaches 650f) and some federal .308 brass(didn't want to cook my lapua) I placed a strip down the side of the case and after ten seconds on the exact same annealing machine with two propane torches(map burns hotter) I can verify that 3/4 of the way down the case reached 650f at 10 seconds into the test. On shorter brass this would happen much faster. In the instructions for the bench source annealer it states that you should put 400F tempilac(I don't have any) at that same location where my 650 melted at 10 seconds and remove the brass from the flame before it melts. They also state that in their testing it took 4-4.5 seconds to properly anneal a piece of .308 brass. Brass is an excellent conductor of heat which I also proved by burning my finger grabbing it at the base when I put it through the first time for 1 second to test the torch height/location....
Hey gentlemen, just to add to "the mix", the cartridge brass alloy seems to differ quite a bit among the manufacturers. Interesting discussions, I think...but, I'm just a simple 'lurker'. Stay well, you-all!
@@lohikarhu734 You're absolutely correct. You can only make generalizations when using different brands/types of brass. The fact that they are different weights alone means they are going to heat at different rates. I just weighed three diff empty .308 cases on my FX120 scientific scale and they came out to Lapua(173.62gn) Federal(176.40gn) and Hornady(185.86gn). Works out to a 6.5% difference between the highest/lowest and more mass means it takes more time to heat. Different alloy composition will react differently as well. I test each type/brand I use with the Tempilac to make sure and then record the results to be referenced later.
Loved it, I appreciate you taking the time.
Thank you!
In simple words, annealing restores the “elasticity” to the brass.
Malleability
Thank you for the lesson on re-setting brass....;)
We did a similar experiment. We were die forming .30-06 military brass into 7mm Mauser. We trimmed the fired 06' cases on a lathe, de-burred them, annealed, formed, full length sizd, trimmed and tumbled them.. We found that around 14 seconds gave us a good form with no negative effects. We did 200 for a customer and have reloaded each case 4 times since without issue (annealed each at 4 seconds each time since).
Great video again Erik. You've also eased a concern of mine. I made my own induction annealer (fun project) and have been very wary of how long to heat the brass for (edging more on the side of under rather than over) - looks like I really shouldn't worry as much.
Your process makes sense and obviously works. Tempilaq temp. sensitive paint (for setup) makes me happy. Maybe it’s a little contradictory that I cook steaks by feel, but there it is.
I bought an Aneeleze machine for $275 and it works like a charm, extra wheel kit for magnum cartridges is an extra $25. It uses 1 flame and rotates the case in the horizontal position. I can load around 200 .223 and maybe 150 .308 at a time. Totally adjustable for time and flame position, very easy to use. I use the same method of beginning to see orange with the lights off. Doesn't take up much bench space.
Great video! I annealed some brass after watching this with my home made set up that's pretty crude. Used a stationary propane bottle and a variable speed drill with a 5" 3/8" drill bit. Slid the 45/70 cases over the drill bit and rotated the brass into the flame until a light orange color. About 9 seconds and allowed them to air cool. By the way the caseslid right off by tilting down a little and letting them fall into a wooden box. I was afraid to do this in faer of over heating until watching your video. I am anxious to get to the range and watch your next video!
Thanks,
Frank
Gets hard every time you work it!!! Dude you awesome, love it!
Thank You for the information. Just starting annealing. Trying to do it right, if I can.
Thanks for your insight on all these topics. I would like to see some results of various barrel lengths.
Thanks for that. The neck being more flexible and able to expand a fill the chamber helps to contain the gasses and flex faster to "seal" the chamber quicker and better.
Great video as always. Thank you! I actually use a different annealing method - but I think it’s just a matter of taste.
My annealing method is a salt bath at 550degC. I use a Lee Lead Melter, a cheap chinese PID controller, and 50/50 mixture by weight of potassium nitrate (Spectracide Stump Killer) and sodium nitrate (Hi-Yield Nitrate of Soda 16-0-0 fertilizer). For my 308, I typically do a 6-second dip (timed by iPhone metronome app) and then I throw them in soapy water to wash the salts away.
That sounds extremely complicated....
Like Eric said in his video.. My method works for me. When I anneal I can feel a huge reduction in force needed to resize my brass. So whichever annealing method you choose (flame, salt bath, or induction) I think everyone needs to do it.
Thank you for sharing!!!!! Need to start annealing my rifle brass.
Man thank you so much. I've been wasting so much supplies thinking the salt bath annealing was doing something. I couldn't actually find a good load until this video. I went ahead and did 50 cases with a drill and a torch and worked up a ladder. Dang man it was a huge difference. I now have a load that shoots sub moa out of my AR10. I've been struggling for 3 years
My 2 cents..i found the over annealed loose bullets shoot the tightest groups. I use neck bushings and mandrels to get the lightest grip
@JamesPettinato man I've actually started to see this myself. Federal Gold Medal Match isn't crimped and the neck tension isn't hardly anything. I need to get back to reloading now that everything is settling down
You did a great job explaining the why and what in this video. 👍
Thank you for sharing!
What a kick ass setup! Really cool video man!
Thank you! For the video and the outtakes!
Good stuff Erik thank you Steve from Australia.
😂Your mind went straight into the Gutter 😂 "If it get harder every time you work it" 🤣🤣
I have some once fired Remington brass that had one cracked neck in a box of 20. Cleaned and annealed the other 19 and when resizing they bumped back .005 more than normal.
Great demonstration, Erik. I think you can add immeasurably to this by showing seating force improvements thru annealing as compared to un annealed brass with up to 10 cycles on it. That would prove conclusively that annealing brass has value, and how often it should be done to maintain good consistent neck tension.
Thanks Erik for your awesome video.
when you're bending brass back and forth at 2:56 this is called successive over relaxation of the material. It's a mechanical engineering term. It relates to upset welding among other things
Thanks Boss, really excellent information showing annealing of brass.
Erik Cortina - Pro Shooter, Anneal is a heat treatment of the metal decrease the hardness, most likely your 6 sec on the machine. The 10 sec process you've done is call normalizing. Normalizing is to improve ductility (improve to reduce the chance to break when you bend it). Normalizing heat treatment needs the piece to cool down slowly (air cooling). The issues to over-anneal with propane or Bernzomatic torch is the temperature around 3600F and the melting point of brass is depending composition around 1700F so you gonna melt the brass or deformate it.
At the end:
Remove hardness - Annealing with slow cool down (in air)
Improve ductility - Normalizing (Annealing + 150F) with slow air cool down
Increase hardness - annealing with rapid cold down (in water)
The best explanation I’ve listened to thanks for sharing your thoughts on Annealing 🇦🇺🇦🇺 good to see you you smile and laugh 😂 as did i
Great info, I’m considering reloading my 5.56 ammo and noticed you use 1 lb propane bottles for your heat. I came across Flameking refillable bottles a couple of years ago and have never had to buy another green bottle. You can refill the Flameking bottles from your 20lb grill tank and fill it 20 times on a 20lb tank and there is no limit to how many times you can refill it. Plus they are DOT certified refillable and legal to transport. A big money saver on propane 1lb bottles. I keep 4 on hand to run all my products that need gas. I got mine on Amazon. Hope this may help cut some cost and it’s easy to refill, watch some videos on TH-cam if you have some questions. Again thanks for sharing the tips.
Jim C
anneal is just softens the alloys crystal and have return to big crystal structure. when it worked forming it stretched those crystals structure that make is brittle and usually structurely harder.
you also need best let it cold off slowly is key to true annealing. it is need to reach close to before its melting temp and then slowly cool. you can technically do the reverse when heating it up high and quench it introduce hardening back into the crystal structure.
Thanks for the demonstration. Very effective presentation!! You gave me the info I needed.
Always enjoyable. Thanks Erik. The temperature the brass is raised to is most important. I use a product named "Tempilaq" to ensure the same temperature is reached when first setting up to do a batch. You can get it from Brownells.
I hate tempilaq. lol
@@ErikCortina Wow.
I tried it for a long time and just couldn’t get consistent results. Then I had to clean the brass after using it. So I just started watching the flame and it told me everything I needed to know. :)
@@ErikCortina Consistency is definitely most important. Did you or have you tried any different way of measuring the brass annealing temperature other than the visual method you described?
@@mikerusling1891 "GRAIN SIZE PRODUCED BY RECRYSTALLIZATION & COALESCENCE IN COLD ROLLED CARTRIDGE BRASS"
Download this study & get the facts for yourself. There's excellent time vs temp vs hardness tables starting at page 29.
To get a good understanding, try to read the entire report.
Regards..............Rotas
Alright, I’m here. Thank you again SO MUCH! I appreciate this so much
For consistent results and to make any sense of this neck pressure test / you need to remove primers in all batches or leave primers in all tested cases.
Thank You Erik, this is how I do my brass ow, and it seems to work great!
He is the best ! I learned so much from Eric
Me: watching all your videos, learning how to load the most accurate freedom seeds possible.
Also Me: Dumping 25 grains of Varget into .556 range brass, topped with the cheapest bullets I can find...
Eh, 556/223 for me is all range or hubting rounds. Dont load much for accuracy for that round. Now, 270 on the other hand....
i just used this “method” on r-p rem 223 brass and 1. so small of neck tension you can push the bullet inside the case
2. some necks were crooked as hell after sizing / expander mandrel
(was done with a single torch merhod)
Love your workshop bro!
I have a jig to hold 20 cases in a row, just use a torch by hand to anneal my brass. Simple and effective.
I anneal after every 3 firings for my PRS rounds, every 5 or 6 for my practice and defensive ammo. When the primer pockets become too loose, I discard the brass for recycling.
There is always that one guy that has to differ with you, Mr. Cortina but your records speak for itself so you must be doing something right! Thanks for all the information.
I appreciate that
I use a cordless drill will a long socket the angle of the drill is perfect but I need to work on the distance to the flame I just turn the lights off and let it run until dull orange. Like the pressure gauge and dye 👍
Eric, I appreciate all the knowledge shared. As an avid hunter but only an average handloader im not sure I will ever need to anneal brass (due to lack of shooting and having lots of brass to shoot). But I was wondering if annealing can be done in the oven? Thanks again for all the knowledge shared.