My experience with Suntour nowadays has been with their higher end stuff (Durolux and RUX). Because the stock Zeron fork on my VR model is incapable of being travel adjusted to 170mm, it needed to be swapped. however, the VRX & VRS come with 170mm forks. Truth be told, I would swap the forks on any model to a 38mm stanchion fork (Fox38 / Zeb / Domain / Durolux38 etc). But i'll explain more, as I upgrade the bike👍🏿
the display indicates battery power, motor power is the result of battery power times motor efficieny. efficiency at ideal cadence is about 80% give or take 3% depending on load and cadence
The display shows battery percentage (or current) and motor output. The output would vary depending on the battery voltage. The E-Mythique is using a 36v battery. Whereas my E10 is using a 48v battery. But I'll explain more in upcoming content👍🏿
@@neekodevinchi there is no way the display/controller can measure mechanical power output, only a dyno can do that. it measures battery output via a voltmeter and current shunt. motor output is roughly 80% of battery output. the m510 controller is limited to 15A, @48V that is 720W, multiplied by 0.8 you're talking 576W motor output power
@@JoLe1991 I'm sorry my friend. But you're mistaken (and your above logic is slightly flawed). The bike used in this video used a 36v 630wh battery which has a built-in bms capable of achieving a maximum discharge of 23amps. The M510 requires 20amps to achieve the full 95NM (700w peak output). Yes, the M510 (and other Bafang motors), do not possess the ability to record or measure human leg (torque) power. The motor's do not contain a strain guage and the main reduction gear filters out the physical torque a human could administrator if it's too high. But the reading you are seeing on screen is the motor achieving peak power output only (NOT INCLUDING RIDER INPUT). I conducted the same experiment using the M820 and a 43v 410wh battery with a built-in bms which has a maximum discharge of 18amps and achieved 571watts. If we go by your above scenario/analogy, then the M820 (with the 43v 410wh battery) would only achieve 328watts (using your 80% battery theory). But that IS NOT the case, as the M820 requires 15amps to achieve 75NM of torque and 600w peak output. You are confusing "Watt Hours" (a combination of voltage and amp hours which dictates the duration/capacity) with peak output (measured in watts). I invite you to watch my CEF50 EMTB video using the M820 as well as visit EMTB Forums to understand and consider other users who have achieved similar peak output readings with either the M510 or M820 using multiple methods👍🏿
@@neekodevinchi there is no confusion. all the display can tell you is electrical power, not mechanical power. potentially, using the pedal torque sensor and PAS sensor, the controller can calculate human leg power. again, any watt reading on the display is NOT motor powet output, but motor power input = battery power output. When Bosch states their motor peaks at 600W, that means they measured it on a dyno, and a simple calculation can explain that: 40V x 20A x 75% = 600W any electric motor power OUTPUT is calculated that way. Input voltage x input amps x efficiency = power output
Your above analogy (at best), would only be useful for testing a motor found in a fan, heater or some form of appliances with a motor which is powered by a plug outlet. Ultimately, your above analogy is used for converting electrical energy to mechanical force. But does not take into consideration losses in kinetic force throughout administratoring propulsion, thermal runaway, discharge cut-off, load forces or any sub routines which the bms may control/regulate throughout battery discharge. You cannot assume that 75%-80% of battery capacity is required for an ebike motor to achieve peak output, as it is pointless/meaningless. Because as soon as you dip below 75%-80% battery capacity, the motor is no longer performing optimally. Voltage sag usually occurs below 25%-30% on ebike systems I've used. Furthermore, my tests were conducted WITHOUT a full state of charge to guage the performance without favourable advantages. I can't give an account as to how Bosch determines their peak output readings. But I chose to believe that they wouldn't rely solely on your dyno method or motor electrical efficiency test, as this would only reveal a figure if parameters are fixed to one particular ratio and parameter. Remember, most mid drive motors gain a mechanical advantage using different gear ratios. Your above scenario would only reveal "optimal" efficiency, fixed within a set static parameter. And could not give an account for fluctuations in terms of stator RPM / torque determination (measured in foot pounds) and battery discharge rate. Like I said before, the readout is the watts generated by the motor powered by the battery. If I use your above analogy, then the readouts wouldn't fluctuate between 500w-700w. And instead, would remain more consistent without dipping or raising each second. Again, further emphasising that your above analogy is ONLY useful for testing a motor powered by a plug outlet.
I'm thinking of buying this bike used. What do you think of all the reports of Bafang motors malfunctioning? Easy fixes? Great channel by the way, looking forward to your upcoming content...
The frame is decent and somewhat future proof. For me, Bafang motors are relatively easy to service. But parts, tools and grease do need to be sought in advance. Upcoming content will delve into the potential upgrades owners could consider👍🏿
Seems doubtful? Noise cancelling foam is bulky & sheds when it ages. The noise comes from internal gearing, so there's little to be done from the outside. Motors rated for more torque, tend to have larger gears (quieter) but also looser tolerances (louder). In practice though, wear & grease coverage, seem to often be the biggest factor in how much noise each motor makes. Otherwise identical motors right out of the box can make different levels of noise, depending which one's gears are meshing more closely... but just a few hours of high-torque usage seems to make quite a difference, too. A tiny bit of wear can make a lot of noise. The m620 on our daily driver, is noticeably louder in cold weather; so much so that I've considered using different grease for winter riding!?
I use the UART M620 on my E22. I've just ordered a e55 frame and battery. So I'll probably borrow components off my e22 to build it until I get more money to buy a second M620. I think you're right about the gears and the noise. But I haven't seen good images of the main gears between the M820 and M620. Hopefully Neeko can show us in a post or video🙏🏽
@@rubanghostday7227 There is a good video or two, of an m620 partial teardown for regrease, & one focusing on the internally mounted motor controller... Most places don't seem to want to open them up though! Fortunately, I haven't heard of a ton of failures to require that, yet. Mostly the tiny pawl clutch goes first, which can be forestalled indefinitely, with a bit of tweaking in the settings to keep the motor from disengaging+reengaging constantly if you pedal too slow
I suspect the reason why the motor isn't as loud, is partially because of the 36v battery and the motor's settings. if you look on my Community Page, you'll see a picture of the stock settings of the M510 motor on the E-Mythique LT👍🏿
Looking forward to the upgrade video. This is one bike I have looked at. What do you think of front fork?
My experience with Suntour nowadays has been with their higher end stuff (Durolux and RUX). Because the stock Zeron fork on my VR model is incapable of being travel adjusted to 170mm, it needed to be swapped. however, the VRX & VRS come with 170mm forks. Truth be told, I would swap the forks on any model to a 38mm stanchion fork (Fox38 / Zeb / Domain / Durolux38 etc). But i'll explain more, as I upgrade the bike👍🏿
the display indicates battery power, motor power is the result of battery power times motor efficieny. efficiency at ideal cadence is about 80% give or take 3% depending on load and cadence
The display shows battery percentage (or current) and motor output.
The output would vary depending on the battery voltage. The E-Mythique is using a 36v battery. Whereas my E10 is using a 48v battery.
But I'll explain more in upcoming content👍🏿
@@neekodevinchi there is no way the display/controller can measure mechanical power output, only a dyno can do that. it measures battery output via a voltmeter and current shunt. motor output is roughly 80% of battery output. the m510 controller is limited to 15A, @48V that is 720W, multiplied by 0.8 you're talking 576W motor output power
@@JoLe1991 I'm sorry my friend. But you're mistaken (and your above logic is slightly flawed).
The bike used in this video used a 36v 630wh battery which has a built-in bms capable of achieving a maximum discharge of 23amps.
The M510 requires 20amps to achieve the full 95NM (700w peak output).
Yes, the M510 (and other Bafang motors), do not possess the ability to record or measure human leg (torque) power. The motor's do not contain a strain guage and the main reduction gear filters out the physical torque a human could administrator if it's too high.
But the reading you are seeing on screen is the motor achieving peak power output only (NOT INCLUDING RIDER INPUT).
I conducted the same experiment using the M820 and a 43v 410wh battery with a built-in bms which has a maximum discharge of 18amps and achieved 571watts.
If we go by your above scenario/analogy, then the M820 (with the 43v 410wh battery) would only achieve 328watts (using your 80% battery theory). But that IS NOT the case, as the M820 requires 15amps to achieve 75NM of torque and 600w peak output.
You are confusing "Watt Hours" (a combination of voltage and amp hours which dictates the duration/capacity) with peak output (measured in watts).
I invite you to watch my CEF50 EMTB video using the M820 as well as visit EMTB Forums to understand and consider other users who have achieved similar peak output readings with either the M510 or M820 using multiple methods👍🏿
@@neekodevinchi there is no confusion. all the display can tell you is electrical power, not mechanical power. potentially, using the pedal torque sensor and PAS sensor, the controller can calculate human leg power. again, any watt reading on the display is NOT motor powet output, but motor power input = battery power output. When Bosch states their motor peaks at 600W, that means they measured it on a dyno, and a simple calculation can explain that: 40V x 20A x 75% = 600W
any electric motor power OUTPUT is calculated that way. Input voltage x input amps x efficiency = power output
Your above analogy (at best), would only be useful for testing a motor found in a fan, heater or some form of appliances with a motor which is powered by a plug outlet.
Ultimately, your above analogy is used for converting electrical energy to mechanical force. But does not take into consideration losses in kinetic force throughout administratoring propulsion, thermal runaway, discharge cut-off, load forces or any sub routines which the bms may control/regulate throughout battery discharge.
You cannot assume that 75%-80% of battery capacity is required for an ebike motor to achieve peak output, as it is pointless/meaningless. Because as soon as you dip below 75%-80% battery capacity, the motor is no longer performing optimally. Voltage sag usually occurs below 25%-30% on ebike systems I've used. Furthermore, my tests were conducted WITHOUT a full state of charge to guage the performance without favourable advantages.
I can't give an account as to how Bosch determines their peak output readings. But I chose to believe that they wouldn't rely solely on your dyno method or motor electrical efficiency test, as this would only reveal a figure if parameters are fixed to one particular ratio and parameter. Remember, most mid drive motors gain a mechanical advantage using different gear ratios. Your above scenario would only reveal "optimal" efficiency, fixed within a set static parameter. And could not give an account for fluctuations in terms of stator RPM / torque determination (measured in foot pounds) and battery discharge rate.
Like I said before, the readout is the watts generated by the motor powered by the battery.
If I use your above analogy, then the readouts wouldn't fluctuate between 500w-700w. And instead, would remain more consistent without dipping or raising each second. Again, further emphasising that your above analogy is ONLY useful for testing a motor powered by a plug outlet.
Now compare the m510 to the g510? ;D
(From what I can discern, it seems the g510 is the motor portion of the m620 motor+controller package?)
I'm thinking of buying this bike used. What do you think of all the reports of Bafang motors malfunctioning? Easy fixes?
Great channel by the way, looking forward to your upcoming content...
The frame is decent and somewhat future proof.
For me, Bafang motors are relatively easy to service. But parts, tools and grease do need to be sought in advance.
Upcoming content will delve into the potential upgrades owners could consider👍🏿
The motor sounded more quiet than the M820. Have Vitus done anything around the motor area to reduce the sound?
Seems doubtful? Noise cancelling foam is bulky & sheds when it ages. The noise comes from internal gearing, so there's little to be done from the outside.
Motors rated for more torque, tend to have larger gears (quieter) but also looser tolerances (louder).
In practice though, wear & grease coverage, seem to often be the biggest factor in how much noise each motor makes.
Otherwise identical motors right out of the box can make different levels of noise, depending which one's gears are meshing more closely... but just a few hours of high-torque usage seems to make quite a difference, too. A tiny bit of wear can make a lot of noise.
The m620 on our daily driver, is noticeably louder in cold weather; so much so that I've considered using different grease for winter riding!?
I use the UART M620 on my E22. I've just ordered a e55 frame and battery. So I'll probably borrow components off my e22 to build it until I get more money to buy a second M620.
I think you're right about the gears and the noise. But I haven't seen good images of the main gears between the M820 and M620. Hopefully Neeko can show us in a post or video🙏🏽
@@rubanghostday7227 There is a good video or two, of an m620 partial teardown for regrease, & one focusing on the internally mounted motor controller... Most places don't seem to want to open them up though! Fortunately, I haven't heard of a ton of failures to require that, yet. Mostly the tiny pawl clutch goes first, which can be forestalled indefinitely, with a bit of tweaking in the settings to keep the motor from disengaging+reengaging constantly if you pedal too slow
I suspect the reason why the motor isn't as loud, is partially because of the 36v battery and the motor's settings. if you look on my Community Page, you'll see a picture of the stock settings of the M510 motor on the E-Mythique LT👍🏿
@rubanghostday7227, I can do that👍🏿
Also compare the e mythique to your megawatt and the Dengfu E89 👍🏽
Will do👍🏿
Neeko are there any updates on the m630 or m560 750w?
Content and posts to drop VERY soon👍🏿
@@neekodevinchi Neeko its been a bit, I saw Bafang showed off the m630 and the show any update?
What trail is this
Mucklow Hill👍🏿