For anyone interested, here's a link to the playlist for "Knights of the Forsaken Order" (the story mentioned in the video): th-cam.com/video/2PWIn1Z8Yy8/w-d-xo.html
This series was so good that I have a hard time keeping it separated from the clone wars. On some of the arcs everyone votes on I have to remember this didn't happen.
Thor Skywalker to me your right on the mark with this cause the chosen I my opinion wasn’t suppose to destroy both order only the sixth but have them learn both light and dark side bringing a true balance to the Force in my opinion of course? Good theory wish George could have seen it he might have not gonna say he would have but might have agreed with you on this. Peace dude. An are you going to do more what if stories?
@@jedipadwan20 Balance is not the balance of light and dark being in harmony. Balance to the force meant removing the Dark. The Dark side was poison, it was not the second side of the force. The force is only light, good, and life.
For one, I'm not taking the EU into account. Most of that stuff (for better or worse) is not something Lucas would've gone with. For two, Obi-Wan had a love interest too and yet.... things turned out the way they did.
As Thor said, Obi-Wan has a love interest and could understand Anakin's predicament. The problem is that Anakin never asked Obi-Wan for help for some odd reason. He went to Yoda for advice, which makes sense. Yoda is incredibly wise but only has knowledge of how to serve the force, not how to treat your emotions. Obi-Wan could have helped Anakin just as well as Qui Gon, but the opportunity never presented itself.
@@thorskywalker Always take the EU into account. Disney may have labeled it Legends, but look where the sequels ratings are at now. Look at the future of Star Wars movies with George Lucas and Dave Filoni. Retconning the movies and the sequels. In my opinion, the EU is still canon. Disney never changed that for me.
Honestly, that whole history is one of the worst losses under the legends rebrand imo. I loved the jedi apprentice series growing up, and the whole history with Tahl (and Siri for that matter) was a great, compelling story. It may never have been true canon, but the loss of that history to give perspective on the events of the films and what if scenarios like this is one of the things that most soured me to the sequel trilogy from the outset.
@@danielkeller1337 Disney being bad doesn't make the EU suddenly part of Lucas's vision. Lucas barely paid attention to any of it, running roughshod over it with the prequels and TCW. For him, it was little more than an extra source of revenue. Occasionally, he would pick up a comic that caught his eye, and incorporate a design into his films, but that was pretty much the extent of his concern with the EU.
Anakin was the chosen one until, Palpatines Clone Arrived🙄 The Rebellion Won! Except a new empire will rise in 35 years😤 Luke Skywalker saved the Galaxy, and Started a New Jedi Order, Until a New Darth vader made him pout on an island..😠 Boy do i hate the Sequels
I love the idea that Obi-Wan is sent to spy on Qui-Gon just like how Anakin was sent to spy on Palpatine. With Qui-Gon and company distancing themselves from the order around the same time as tensions rise in the galaxy, I could see the council becoming highly suspicious of them, especially if they suspect someone working both sides but aren't sure who it is. Palaptine takes advantage of their suspicion and fuels it with propaganda against the 'fallen Jedi'. He knows Obi-Wan was close to Qui-Gon and could threaten to unravel everything and that Obi-Wan is a lot less corruptible than Anakin so he sends his apprentice after him hoping that the Jedi's suspicious death would be blamed on the trio.
@@akumaking1 idk. I feel like real fans would know more what fans would like. I've read fanfic better than the sequels. Hell the fanfic referenced in this video is better than the sequels.
@@akumaking1 Disney isn't fanfiction, you gotta be a fan to make fan fiction. Disney hates Star Wars, hates the fans. Star Wars is being made by people who hate Star Wars.
In those situations I often wish we could just call George Lucas on the phone and ask how he intended it, as in whether destroying the Jedi was part of the Force's "plan".
@@shahishnusureshkumar248 nope in 77 they only could really get the red and blue color contrast to work on screen. Green worked for jedi because of the blue sky in the background...
If the comic books are anything to go by, then Sidious' apprentice after Maul, in lieu of Dooku, would probably have been Sora Bulq(the only other jedi besides Mace to master Vaapad), who was turned to the darkside in the comics by Dooku, or alternatively, Quinlan Vos, who was sent on an infiltration mission by the jedi council to turn to the darkside to gain Intel. He flipflopped back and forth between the light and dark several times before finally staying on the light. Both jedi were near the peak of skill for the Jedi warrior type, Bulq more so. He was the battle master before Cin Drallig was appointed to the position sometime after Episode 2. Both were well known, highly talented, ferocious Jedi Masters. Bulq was middle aged like Mace, and Quinlan was Obi-Wan's age, so much younger than Dooku's ancient feebleness. Fun fact, it was Sora Bulq's dabbling with Vaapad that eventually turned him to the darkside for good. I don't see Sidious accepting Ventress as she was an untrained, failed, jedi padawan when Dooku found her. Too unskilled and too much connected to the light side. If we had to stretch his choices far and wide, I'd suggest Mother Talzen possibly, as he originally promised her the position before he took Maul from her. She might be willing to join him when she learned the Jedi killed him.
I think Sidious would take Ventress as his apprentice. She was a nightsister who was trained by a stranded Jedi. her master was killed by pirates because the Jedi abandoned him. after her master died, Ventress killed all of the pirates! Dooku found her and trained her just as an assassin and she was still able to contend with powerful Jedi like Anakin, Obi-wan, and Luminara. she is not as powerful as Count Dooku, but her training was limited. the criteria is not power or skill, it is potential. if she had been trained by Darth Sidious, she could be a worthy apprentice for sure. I like the idea of Quinlan Vos being Sidious's apprentice, but he turned to the dark side because of his mission with Ventress which happened late in the clone wars. While Sora Bulq is canon, there is almost no info on him. Mother Talzin is definitely strong enough to be the apprentice, but I feel like her loyalty would always be to her sisters rather than to the Sith so I'm not sure Sidious would accept her or that she would accept being Sidious's apprentice. I have spoken
I love your interpretation of this alternate timeline. I would like to think that Anakin would find Padme again and he would leave the Order. Anakin is a family man at heart. His time training under Qui Gon and Dooku would have likely made him far more mature than he was in the OG timeline. With Qui Gon as a father figure, Anakin would likely become a great father to Luke and Leia.
On the will of the Force, I think of it as impersonally reactionary in reference to a homeostasis. Similar to how cells in living organisms aren’t necessarily sentient and cannot be anthropomorphized; they still act and react to changes enacted on their homeostasis based on the laws of physics that govern them. *TLDR: The will of the Force is governed by an impersonal force (as in the laws of physics) but the way it plays out looks as though sentient beings are making their own decisions: A white blood cell “chooses” to attack a pathogen; a Jedi (servant of the will of the Force) “chooses” to stop a Sith.* The Force “seeks” balance/homeostasis just like an action potential “seeks” to zero out an imbalance in energy. It’s impersonal, but often uses sentient beings to carry out its inclination toward equilibrium. Balance is not a universe full of beings who would seek to push the balance toward one side (+) or the other (-). But rather, those who seek to bring it right back to homeostasis. Both autoimmune diseases and cancer could represent ways in which the light side can be over-done to the detriment of balance, while pathogens and physical trauma are equally detrimental to bodies’ equilibrium. To this end, it’s absolutely necessary for midichlorians to exist in the Star Wars universe, because there needs to be a physical influence coming from the non-physical Force. The only way around this would have been to make souls in every living being as the connection between the Force and sentient beings, but this still lacks a physical connection. Midichlorians were a much cleaner way of describing the non-living, impersonal Force’s connection to manipulatable, physical servants (“immune cells” & “pathogens,” if you will). Many Sith hated this control that the Force had (a lack of ultimate free will) and sought to destroy the fulcrum point on which the balance of light and dark rested in an attempt to gain some semblance of “free will.” But in the end, the Force, which makes life possible, always finds a way to restore homeostasis.
Underrated comment. I love your perspective on the Force's homeostasis-like qualities. I personally like using the symbol of a rubber band. If you put tension on a rubber band(imbalance), the rubber band will always try to retain it's original flaccid shape. Even if you were to break the rubber band, it will still technically exist and perform it's original function of tense/release.
Alright, I was skeptical when this showed up in my notifications. Usually, I hate theories about Qui-Gon living because they make him out to be infallible and the 'perfect' Jedi to teach Anakin because he would let Anakin do whatever he wanted and encourage him to form attachments. They put all the blame for the Jedi's genocide on Obi-Wan because he was weak and couldn't teach Anakin properly while disconnecting all the other context of Obi-Wan taking Anakin as his padawan. I appreciated how you kept Qui-Gon more true to his canon personality and I LOVED that you put in the bit of he and Dooku encouraging Anakin to let go of his mother. From what we got in TPM, I don't see Qui-Gon as someone who encourages attachments so I don't understand why some fans think he would be totally cool with Anakin's attachments to his mother and Padme. Overall, I loved this. It was so great and really well thought out. It's definitely the Prequel dream.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on anakin and padme not getting together because anakin had dreams of her every night and I think at some point he would’ve told qui gon because he used to have feelings for another Jedi
Keep in mind those visions/dreams may have been influenced by Palpatine, who would no longer be in the picture. Plus, in the end, I do think there's a chance he ends up with Padme still.
"In my experience there's no such thing as luck" - Obi-Wan Kenobi The Force brought about that first fateful meeting of Anakin and Padme. As Queen, she should have remained safely aboard her ship, but 'finding him was the WILL of the Force'. Just as she was also meant by the Force to love, support and protect Anakin from the Dark Side. She provides a positive influence on him right up until her pregnancy in ROTS. It's Palpatine and the Jedi Council that create the conflict within him, not Padme, who's presence he finds 'soothing' to his heart. The Jedi are encouraged to 'love' others by being caring and unselfish, but also be able to let them go. So loving Padme was initially good for Anakin, up until he became overwhelmed by the fear of losing her. Palpatine works on this fear of abandonment, the fear of death, and turns that into his greatest weakness: "The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side - compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion - of not thinking of yourself all the time."- George Lucas. Thor remember how ROTS ends. With Yoda and Obi-Wan leaving the Skywalker twins to be raised in stable loving family homes, rather than with the Jedi. The two surviving Masters finally recognised what it was that Anakin had been missing all that time, and thus ensured it was given to both Leia and Luke. 'Family' being a main theme of Star Wars: "And obviously there are two sides to the redeemer motif in the Star Wars films. Ultimately Vader is redeemed by his children and especially by having children. Because that's what life is all about? Procreating and raising children, and it should bring out the best of you." -George Lucas
Another thing: if Dooku didn't become Palpatine's apprentice, Sifo-Dyas would've also lived, and probably joined him and Qui-Gon in distancing themselves from the order and training Anakin. It is also likely that the clones would've had a different template since it was Dooku who recruited Jango Fett.
This is why the lightsaber battle at the end of The Phantom Menace is one of the best in the saga. It’s so visually satisfying but also immensely important for the story. The only problem is a lot of people don’t understand it’s significance because of how it was written.
@@Anwell100 Good point! A lot of people- especially Obi Wan Kenobi fans take issue with the idea Qui Gon would have been a better teacher because how dare you say their boy isn't perfect in some way! How dare you.
Qui-Gon had a particular set of skills to keep Anakin in the light, so they could defeat the Sith. It has been over two years since a What If. Please make one Thor Skywalker.
The way I fix the Dooku thing is that he personally was zoned out and had left in spirit before Qui-Gon death. He was also not taking as many missions either as his heart wasn't fully into it. Qui-Gon's death was the catalyst for him to formally leave the order.
I think if Qui Gon lived, he could have mentored Anakin in an 'unofficial" way. Ani would still be Obi-Wan's Padawan, but Qui Gon would be "Older Brother/Dad" of the unit, mentoring them both. Basically what happened with Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi Wan, but with Anakin in Ahsoka's place (Padawan), Obi Wan in Anakin's place (Jedi Knight and Official Teacher to the Padawan) and Qi Gon in Obi Wan's place (The Master/Teacher to the Jedi Knight that is the Master of Padawan)
Agreed completely. There is no way the force would want thousands of Jedi to die. That's seriously dark and it doesn't feel right. But things had to change. Your ideas that end with Dooku as the new chancellor make complete sense.
Anakin might have been able to meet Padme again and possibly earlier. Qui-Gon, Anakin and Dooku would not likely have been able to stay in the Jedi Temple nor Coruscant as a whole. Dooku's home world could have been one potential base of operations; the other possibility would be on Naboo, granted by a grateful Queen Amidala for saving her planet.
Nice video Thor! The balance of the force and Qui Gon's role in all of this are some of the most fascinating questions in Star Wars. Jinn was the father Anakin could've had, but unfortunately, Palpatine and Maul changed their destinies.
This is definitely a best case scenario. Probably what the force intended to happen. By all accounts Qui-Gong should have won that fight. Our timeline is probably the alternate bad one that just so happens to make for a better story.
I disagree with a few things, 1. That Anakin and Padme would not get together. As shown with Yoda's Force Ghost training, one of the problems with the old Jedi is that they deny their emotions out of fear of falling instead of accepting their emotions but not letting them control them. Furthermore, love plays a huge role in the prophecy coming true in George's canon. Padme was constantly a thorn in Palpatine's side even though he did use her death against Anakin. 2. I feel Qui-Gon and Anakin would be convinced to join the CW by Obi-Wan, however unlike in the main timeline the duo soon quartet (as Obi-Wan would still team up with his master and "brother" and Ashoka would still be introduced to help Anakin to let go) would be more involved and successful in unraveling Palpatine's plans. Most notably saving Fives and stopping Order 66. (Obi-Wan, Ashoka and eventually Yoda would also learn to become "true" Jedi and learn the Force ghost ability) 3. Dooku would still fall (as the clone army needs to happen and was set up pretty early on) but return to the light. 4. I disagree that the Force is neutral, its actions and what it sees as balanced are largely benevolent, which is fitting as George intended the Force to be a mix of religions. 5. The losing of the Jedi's power was not the Force's doing, it is explicitly called out to be due to the "Shroud of the Darkside". 6. Thanks to the investigations and in this scenario Anakin and potentially Ashoka (as a Jedi Knight) and Qui-Gon would join Mace, leading to the Jedi's victory, leading to Padme taking Palpatine's place and the Jedi order as a whole being redeemed.
Wow that's deep. So when Obi said 'I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you," on Mustafar, he was saying that he had failed to keep his promise to Qui gon? 🤔
I loved it. It was interesting throughout. I can't say I disagreed with any of it. Granted, I'm not a writer, I'm a reader; and within the series of events you laid out, there were a few surprises for me...particularly Dooku's role in the aftermath. I especially liked that part.
I wonder if Obi Wan would be swayed to the dark side instead of Anakin in this scenario. Perhaps over the years he would get jealous of Anakin for all the praise and attention he got for being the Chosen One, the main hero of the Clone Wars (if he still fights in it), and for becoming a Jedi Knight and eventually Jedi Master in less time than he did. Meanwhile, Obi Wan had to work harder and longer to get as far as he did considering he had a lower midichlorian count, and may feel like it was unfair. Palpatine may tempt Obi Wan with this jealousy which would turn to anger and resentment. Palpatine would also tempt him with promises of greater and more quickly gained power through the Dark Side, and maybe use his feelings for Duchess Satine for good measure. Even if Obi Wan turning to the Dark Side wasn't likely to happen, I would imagine this would be the most plausible way.
"And whether the Jedi Council would let Qui-Gon train Anakin... I think either way, Qui-Gon is going to take and train him." You just summed up Qui-Gon PERFECTLY in a single sentence and I love it! Qui-Gon is my favourite character from the prequels, so I'm really happy to see a video focusing on him :D I do wonder though, on the subject of Shmi, whether when Anakin started having the visions of her suffering, Qui-Gon wouldn't have forbidden Anakin from doing anything, as you say... but then gone on his own and rescued her without ever telling Anakin that he'd done so. We know from TPM that he will go out of his way to help people when he can - such as talking Boss Nass into releasing Jar Jar to go with them instead of punishing him (non-canon, but the video game adaption even rephrases Qui-Gon's dialogue in that scene to "he is still an important life-form, and I will not see him suffer"); and after all, in TPM he did try to free Shmi as well as Anakin, only Watto wouldn't be persuaded - so I don't think he would have just sat back and been fine with the idea that she was being tortured somewhere. But doing it this way still allows him to make the situation into a suitable lesson for Anakin, since Anakin won't know that he's done it. Just a thought though ^^
It all sounds pretty reasonable! Great video. My only problem with discussions like this is the idea that the Force might be sentient in some way, having desires of its own and manipulating people to bring them about. But you address that near the end of the video in a pretty smart way. It's established fact in the movies that the Force has a "will," so why not make it a huge, instinctive agent of change? I like that. In your conception (as I see it) the Force is kind of like the ocean, and just as water will always find its own level, the Force will always find balance. It's interesting that the majority of the Jedi are wiped out in both the "worst case" scenario of the movies and the "intended" scenario you describe here. I know you're implying that some remnant of the Jedi survive Order 66 and get retrained in the end, but it's hard for me to see a scenario where more than a handful of them survive in any universe where the Clone Wars still occur. It seems like a pretty direct chain of cause and effect: Clone Wars begin --> Jedi become generals for the Republic, putting them in close contact with clones --> Order 66 wipes them out. Although maybe... In this alternate timeline Qui-Gon, Anakin and Dooku wouldn't just be sitting on their hands while the Clone Wars were raging. They'd be following the will of the Force, which may lead them to exposing Palpatine's plans before they can come to full fruition. So maybe the Jedi could have been saved from near obliteration.
Completely unrelated to the video, but come on guys, let's do Jorus/Joruus C'baoth in the next vote! He's one of my favourite Legends characters, and his ignorance when it comes to his own evil is very interesting.
I'm surprised you didn't mention this... Balance is no dark side users, only light... Hmm, watch some video's about Lucas discussing the "balance" concept. He explains that the dark side is selfishness and looking inward, while the light is selflessness at the cost of all attachment and personal wants/needs, looking only outwards basically... Balance in the force is defined by him as no dark side and only light existing (incidentally this is why a "grey Jedi" can't exist, 1 selfish act is considered the dark side). Vader killing Palpatine and dying while a light side user prevailed was the point of balance, not the state of the galaxy at the end of RotS. So it does not matter if the Jedi are destroyed, just that there are zero dark side users and at-least 1 light side'r. Regardless, great video and thank you for the 'food for thought'. Have a good one!
There can definitely be former Jedi that no longer follow the code strictly. Maybe grey Jedi is a bad term, but one isn’t a sith simply because they want to have attachments, for example. Maybe ex-Jedi?
@@ontasbulent5709 He really didnt need to be close to Dooku in power, he needed to be a puppet for Sidious to use. The danger of the CIS wasn't really Dooku tbh, it was that the jedi were to slowly trust the clones that they wouldn't belive that they could be betrayed them
Dooku was already on the Dark Side, although not yet a 'Sith apprentice'. It years of painstaking manipulation and grooming to take a powerful Jedi Knight and lure him over to the Dark Side. We know Dooku becomes Sidious' new apprentice as soon as Maul is killed. And so the Sith must have had Dooku in their sights long before the unexpected death of Maul. Since that is how they work, they always have a back up plan. "Always TWO there are, no more, no less" -Yoda TPM If they didn't have Dooku ready, then this would make Yoda's statement false. Since with Maul's death, Palpatine would remain the ONLY Sith. I.e. the only ONE. But we know they must always have TWO.
"First comes the day, then comes the night, after the darkness shines through the Light. The difference they say is only made right, through the resolving of grey through profound Jedi sight!" ~Journal of the Whills, 7477, The Force Awakens!) For @Thor Skywalker and every or anybody else!)
Obviously this is an idealised thought about what could happen; but there isn't much drama here. Anakin is a kind of Rey here and Thor is underestimating Palpatine as he would come up with something else nefarious to obtain unlimited power. Sure, Anakin would probably defeat him in the end, but there has to be more carnage than this.
Awesome video as usual and agree with this alternate outcome...just a side note...how would you see the mortis arc playing out? I imagine qui-gon would be far more interested in the Father's outlook and that would influence Anakin (could only make him more powerful)...also it's possible ahsoka could be apprenticed to kenobi and how less of an outsider she'd be (except she may not survive the purge in the new timeline)
Obi-Wan was wiser than Qui-Gon in episode 1 and even Qui-Gon admitted it. And maybe Qui-Gon joins Dooku and things are much, much worse. Obi-Wan was one of the wisest Jedi ever and he couldn't save Anakin because of Padme. Without that attachment, Anakin doesn't turn. It wouldn't matter if it was Qui-Gon or Mace training Anakin, Anakin would have betrayed the Jedi to save Padme every time.
I think the most significant part of this alternative timeline might be that Qui Gon left the Jedi Order in order to train him. It meant that he’d never be influenced by Palpatine nor join the clone wars. The same could have happened if Obi Wan had left the order to train him had the Jedi forbade him from training anakin.
Part of me still feels like Mundi would have been a great master for Anakin. Or Plo Koon. But mostly Mundi. They have similar personalities, especially when Mundi was younger. He was able to learn how to control his emotions and ultimately became a council member. He could teach Anakin how to do the same, in theory. And honestly in some respects I think Mace Windu would also be an excellent master for Anakin. He absolutely would have the potential to teach Anakin how to turn his emotions and love of combat into a tool of the light. And eventually a well trained and mature Anakin would absolutely be able to use vaapad. Combine that with him mastering tutaminis, because he would, and he'd annihilate Sith. Anakin could shoot their lightning back at them, close the gap, jump into vaapad and just shred them with his saber. That would be glorious. He probably would wreck Palpatine even. But to answer your question; I think you are pretty spot on with how things would have gone down had Qui-Gon survived the duel with Maul. With the main possible difference being the council would be significantly more likely to listen to Qui-Gon than Obi Wan. Jinn was supposed to be a council member, after all, but refused the position. So Qui-Gon might have ultimately been able to sway enough of the council to get their support as his wisdom and his connection to the will of the force were known in the order. So he might never leave and Dooku might stay as well. But, if Qui-Gon deuces out, you know Dooku is right behind him.
Didn't you oversight the fact that force users kinda can read minds, like vader on the original triology finding out about Leia through Luke, and probably thats how Palpatime find out abot Padme
The jedi could do that too, they said to Anakin that his thoughts dwell on his mother. I think they can only really read minds if the victim is concentrating on a thing.
Yes, it probably was a overshight...but force-sensitives can sense feelings and read thougths and I get the impression that Palpatine does this a lot with everyone in the prequels to know how he can tempt them. The 2nd is harder to do, but the 1st is rather easy. Also both the force-sensitive need to pay attention, kind of seeking for something concrete while the target needs to be thinking on the matter for feelings or thoughts to be picked up. Just think exchange between Anakin and Palpatine in ROTS gives it away: Palpatine: "I know what's bothering you: I can help you to save your wife" Anakin: "What have you just said!?"[angry] Anakin wasn't expecting this bomb dropped in his face, so he obviously told nothing to Palpatine about anything at all. So either Palpatine has an amazing spy network or he used force stuff on Anakin or he may have foreseen futures and he's just gambling to find the sweetspot. Either way how Palpatine pierces through Anakin is meant to be big bad secret sauce :P
This for the most part is what I think would happen keeping in mind that the question isn't what would happen if qui got lived but its what would happen if the force acted freely and allowed the unconvoluded chosen one phrophecy to be forfilled. Loved it man. Has wanted a video on something iv had a hard time chosing between. That being what is the correct way to utilise the force. By that I mean which way do YOU align with and prefer, qui gons old way where u act solely through the force almost with no will of ur own. Or luke new way of embracing and encouraging emotion and love and controlling it to act through the positive passions of the universe. As we see luke somehow aligns very strongly with the will of the force but also loves very strongly. Han leia his family. Biggs and later on mara jade. Id like a discussion on this and what u believe is the right way to be a jedi. Obviously not including disney trilogy as they fk up luke and his ideals and alignment with the force
i wonder though if love/infatuation would follow anakin regardless. as soon as padme is mentioned in episode 2 he is nervous and crazy about this woman he hasnt seen for 10 years. that tells me he is really seeking attachment, he holds certains values about love. afterall hes pining for girl he met briefly as an 8 year old for a decade...seems to me more about Anakin than about Padme to me. that part of his huberis i think is inevitable because i think he would transfer that obsession to someone else and to say that anyone could teach anakin to put that out of his mind i think is a little unlikely. was Obi-Wan taught to put Satine aside or did he chose that because thats his personality? i love thinking about this stuff hahaha
I actually believe the opposite. For the good to shine through in the end the bad had to happen first. I'm comparing this to the real world: because ww2 happened the world got shaken up and reorganized itself. The UN got created and countries like Germany and Japan got rebuilt from scratch and have become important countries. Today they aren't viewed as a danger but as a valuable partner.
I think Thor's assessment is plausible. The clone wars would still have happened, Qui Gon would have been against it but the council would have ignored him. So order 66 would still have happened and the Jedi order would have suffered terrible losses. This combined with it all being orchestrated by a Sith lord under the Jedi's noses, and the Jedi order's waning powers could easily have been enough to shake them out of their failed ways. In short: plenty enough "bad" would have still happened to change things ..
I believe anakin being raised and trained by the jedai was a "metaphorical" last chance given to them by the force to reform because besides destroying the current sith who had gotten to powerful and dangerous, I suspect that the force may have added some side objectives of dismantling the factors that caused the current siths rise to power which were the republic and the jedai of that Era, be it reform or fire
I'd love to see this as an animated series. They could essentially make a new version of The Clone Wars with the same voice actors, and it would be interesting to see how Maul and Ahsoka fit into this story.
I think it's reasonable. Though I don't think Qui-Gon would separate from the Order as much as you think, nor do I think they'd leave Anakin's mother to simply be a slave or to die. The Force showed him visions of her for a reason. It WANTED her to be saved.
@@ZehnWaters except that it would turn Anakin more to the dark side, which is one of Palpatine's main goals. sure, there is no proof he did make the visions, but there is no proof he didn't. so it can be a reasonable theory, a hypothesis theory.
Thor Skywalker I hate that TH-cam does this. I thought I had my notification setting to give me all notifications for your channel, but it was set to personalized. No wonder I’m so out of the loop on your videos, I usually watch them within a couple of hours, a day at most of being uploaded
I love this timeline! I just wish Kenobi had a bigger part in it. I suppose he is still the one to kill Grievous and survives order 66? Then he’s be one of the few Masters on the council left to rebuild the order.
Sith code says : The force shall set me free! That means the Sith are beyond the Force's control The son of mortis also had the ability to jeoperdize balance which he nearly did with Anakin's future visions
Side note: I feel I finally understand the struggle between the outer rim planets and the core planets by watching The Expanse. This tension was never really conveyed to us in the Eps 1,2 , and 3, imo.
Its not canon anymore, but there's a passage in the Darth Plaguies novel which really speaks volumes. “It’s not for you to decide your destiny, Anakin,” Obi-Wan said. “The Force will guide you.” Palpatine smiled inwardly. Dooku had talent, and could be a powerful placeholder. But this seemingly guileless pleasant-faced boy, this Forceful boy, was the one he would take as his apprentice, and use to execute the final stage of the Grand Plan. Let Obi-Wan instruct him in the ways of the Force, and let Skywalker grow embittered over the next decade as his mother aged in slavery, the galaxy deteriorated around him, and his fellow Jedi fell to inextricable conflicts. He was too young to be trained in the ways of the Sith, in any case, but he was the perfect age to bond with a father figure who would listen to all his troubles and coax him inexorably over to the dark side."
To answer that big question, whether all the Jedi were “supposed” to be destroyed: I think yes and no. I think the Force chooses to punish selfishness and pride, regardless of what form it takes: whether that’s Jedi or Sith. I think that, to bring balance, the Force must destroy selfishness, which the Jedi of the prequel era certainly suffered from. Then, it was the Sith’s turn to be destroyed in the OT era, and the ST era I guess.
The way I see it is the Jedi had lost their way. The Force used Anakin to wipe them out so they could be rebuilt by his son. Perhaps that was part of the prophecy that the Jedi ignored. They only cared that the Sith would be destroyed. Or maybe that wasn't Anakin's original purpose. The Force merely used him since he was there. Makes you wonder if Anakin was ever truly free, or if his entire life was planed out by the Force.
Loved the vid, but I don’t think the clone wars would’ve happened to begin with. As we learn in season 6 of CW, it was actually Dooku who placed the order for the clone army, so the Republic wouldn’t have had an army to fight off the droid army therefore making Palpatine’s takeover easier because he would just be able to introduce a new order under the separatists, skipping the whole war.
Personally, if Qui-Gon survived, i would like to see Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Anakin all team up together. They would still go on missions, and Obi-Wan would be like an older brother to Anakin, and Qui-Gon the father figure of them both. I like the addition of Dooku piecing together the Jedi and the Galaxy after Sidious' death, but also think Yoda should still be involved in many ways. Qui-Gon teaching the Jedi how to follow the will of the force as a Force Ghost. That sounds friggin awesome not gonna lie
If I wrote SW stuff, I’d give fans an alternate 7,8 and 9 that would explain how there are alt time lines due to a fracture in time and space created by Palpatine. I’d explain that Luke corrects this issue and wipes out ALL versions of SW after E3. I’d alter all of SW by having Luke amass power through the cosmic force to appear to Anikan after his dream of Padme’s death and teach him everything that would happen. I’d have Luke walk away from the great battle between good and evil/Empire vs Republic and instead, use his new power to repair the schism/fracture resulting in his own death and the end of all of the alt time lines.....now, we would find ourselves in Palpatine’s office, Windu and the other Jedi entering to arrest him and when Palpatine leaps across the desk, his light saber would collide with ANIKAN’S! Anikan vs Palpatine would be ferocious for a few seconds and then, Mace and the other Jedi joining in results in a brutal defeat for Palpatine. This would lead to Padme becoming the new chancellor, Obi-wan leading the clone army to victory and peace through the galaxy. We’d close up the story with Anikan in white, along with Yoda and Obi-wan teaching younglings. Two of them being Luke and Leia.
If this is considered a Legends scenario, I think a good candidate who could both have been Palpatine's apprentice and lead the Separatists, would be Sev´rance Tann, who for those who don't know, was a female Chiss Dark Jedi who was supposed to be the Supreme Commander of the Droid Armies before Grievous, but who died during the early days of the Clone Wars. Basically a female Thrawn with Force powers Edit: Spell check
I’ve always hated the idea that everything would’ve simply been perfect with Qui-Gon as Anakin’s master. In my opinion, Anakin’s self-indulgence would’ve been just as bad, if not worse, under Qui-Gon.
I agree that people overexaggerate how perfect it would've been if Qui gon had survived, but I do think it would be better. Qui gon was less strict, but Anakin listened to him. when Qui gon told Anakin to hide rather than fight in the Battle of Naboo, he did. (well, he tried. he did accidentally save all the Gungans, but he tried to stay out of danger) Anakin wouldn't listen all the time. if his mother was in danger, he would probably sneak away and help her, but he would listen more to Qui gon than to Obi-wan. I have Spoken
Anakin is not a whiny brat in the 1st movie though. He is selfless. He changes a lot after spending 10 years with Obi Wan. I don't think he would be like that if he had spent them with Qui Gonn. Yeah he still has attachments in 1st, but if he had somone else to rely on, a true father figure, Palpatine could not have swayed him so easily.
@@Anwell100 Anakin is not a whiny brat in the 2nd movie though. sure he complains about being held back, but from his point of view, he is the chosen one and yet he's been learning from this guy who is barely more powerful than him for ten years. he doesn't even complain that much.
I seem to recall Palpatine wanted Obi Wan to be assigned to protect Padme, probably with the intent of getting them both killed. It was the Jedi Council who sent Anakin off to protect her. Attachments have been gone into before. They are not inherently evil, and there are other sources of weakness. Extreme detachment is just as bad. It often makes people into amoral sociopaths. The "the justifies the means" philosophy, which was basically espoused by the Jedi could be seen as characteristic of this.
Perhaps, if it was Mace Windu training Anikin instead of Obi-Wan, it'd have a better outcome. It's been said that Windu is in balance with the light and dark side of the force, his purple lightsaber showing off that balance, he may then have contact with Qui Gon's force spirit and gets advice from there.
Oooh I love me some good Qui-Gon survives scenarios. The only thing I disagree with is Dooku joining Qui-Gon and Anakin so early. I agree that Qui-Gon’s death was what tipped Dooku into becoming a Sith, but I also think that he is so convinced that he is the only one who knows what is needed to put the galaxy onto what he sees as the correct path, and is so reluctant to rely on others, even his old padawan, that he would be more likely to become a separatist leader (though not an outright sithly one) and serve as an antagonist in some form to Anakin for at least the first half of the hypothetical AU. I like your idea of Dooku becoming Chancellor after Palpatine, though. Maybe Dooku could be the redemption arc character.
I think we've actually got a canonical - if allegorical - depiction of how the Chosen One was supposed to work, and of the various outcomes that were possible. We have it in the Mortis arc of Clone Wars. The Mortis Arc is basically an allegorical retelling of the story of the films. The Daughter represents the Light side, the Son represents the Dark. The Father is generally given the role of the Will of the Force, but I don't see that. I see _Mortis_ itself as the Will of the Force. The Father, I think, represents the Jedi. After all, the Father believes that the role of the Chosen One is to replace him. Anakin was never going to _become_ the Will of the Force. Seen this way, we can reverse-engineer a bit what Anakin could have done. Early on in the arc, Anakin is tested by the Father, to see if he can master both the Son and the Daughter, a test that Anakin passes. The Father then tells Anakin that this means he is destined to stay on Mortis to replace him - but Anakin refuses. This leads to the rest of the story, to the death of the Light, and the rise of the Dark. If the Father represents the Jedi, and Anakin replacing him was the intended outcome, then I think the real world story would be, in broad strokes: The old ways are dying. After the death of Yoda (because let's face it, the main reason the Jedi are so stubborn and conservative is Yoda keeping them that way), the Jedi would be in turmoil. Nobody can remember a time when anyone other than Yoda was in charge. Anakin would face some great trial, in which he would have to control both the light and the dark sides. After this trial, Anakin would become the Grandmaster of the Jedi, and would lead a renewed order into a future that looks a lot like Luke's new Jedi order in Legends. This, or something like it, is what I think the original design was. It's what would have happened if Qui-Gon had trained Anakin, as was intended. Because Qui-Gon wasn't there, Anakin chose his attachments instead of his 'purpose'; so the prophecy was fulfilled via...alternate means.
1st I want to say, enjoyed the video. While I agree if Qui Gon would not have died Anakin would have faired better under his training, but I disagree with what you say of how things would have happened. If Qui Gon would have told Anakin to not love and to walk away from Padme and his mother then he would have again turned to the dark side. Obi-Wan was not such a horrible teacher that Qui Gon could have better trained him to let go of attachments. I agree Qui Gon would have pulled Anakin away from the things of the Jedi Order because The light side is more important than politics. But I don't think Qui Gon would have told Anakin to throw away attachments. The Jedi were wrong when it came to that. It is the biggest downfall of the Jedi. Compassion is the greatest strength of the light. Qui Gon always chose to do the will of the force over what the Jedi Council wanted. This is the reason that I can't stand when people try to say Qui Gon was a gray Jedi. He wasn't He was more light than anyone.
the Jedi said attachments are bad, but they encouraged compassion. attachments and compassion are very different. the Jedi were flawed, but I think they were right about attachments.
I have always fundamentally believed he did become the chosen one because: 1. The Jedi were massively unbalancing the force by being so numerous and so powerful, purely on the light side. 2. Anakin destroyed the Jedi, and at the end it was only 2 sith and 2 Jedi left. (Excluding EU/ non movie stuff) Balance.
Qui-Gon was the only jedi acting like a jedi! So i do believe they were meant to be destroyed!! Obi-wan was the “perfect “ Jedi in the counsels eyes and even he could not sense the good in Vader! Shows just how far they had fallen
What if force is something like, determines people destiny. Anakin's destiny was destroy Sith but everything between beginning and end of this chain of events was uncertain. He could have stayed Jedi or became Sith or something different like, be a smuggler, but his destiny was still same; destroy Sith. Fun to speculate about force.
For anyone interested, here's a link to the playlist for "Knights of the Forsaken Order" (the story mentioned in the video): th-cam.com/video/2PWIn1Z8Yy8/w-d-xo.html
This series was so good that I have a hard time keeping it separated from the clone wars. On some of the arcs everyone votes on I have to remember this didn't happen.
Thor Skywalker to me your right on the mark with this cause the chosen I my opinion wasn’t suppose to destroy both order only the sixth but have them learn both light and dark side bringing a true balance to the Force in my opinion of course? Good theory wish George could have seen it he might have not gonna say he would have but might have agreed with you on this. Peace dude. An are you going to do more what if stories?
@@jedipadwan20 Balance is not the balance of light and dark being in harmony. Balance to the force meant removing the Dark. The Dark side was poison, it was not the second side of the force. The force is only light, good, and life.
That was a really cool story man, I enjoyed it. Luke and Leia have their parents and get to hear how their father was a Jedi who destroyed the Sith 😁
Orion Fettes I don't want to commit to a date just yet, but it's looking like next spring will be when it releases.
“I wish he were still alive... I could use his help right now.”
~Darth Tyranus
Qui-Gon Jinn would never join you.
It's shame that a name as cool as 'Darth Tyranus' was only spoken twice (I think) in the films.
@@RafaCoutinho_ He didn't know that though. Dooku knew Qui Gon for at least as long as Obi Wan did, probably longer.
In the EU qui-gin had a love interest and almost fell to the dark side himself sooooooo he would understand fully and try to help
For one, I'm not taking the EU into account. Most of that stuff (for better or worse) is not something Lucas would've gone with. For two, Obi-Wan had a love interest too and yet.... things turned out the way they did.
As Thor said, Obi-Wan has a love interest and could understand Anakin's predicament. The problem is that Anakin never asked Obi-Wan for help for some odd reason. He went to Yoda for advice, which makes sense. Yoda is incredibly wise but only has knowledge of how to serve the force, not how to treat your emotions. Obi-Wan could have helped Anakin just as well as Qui Gon, but the opportunity never presented itself.
@@thorskywalker Always take the EU into account. Disney may have labeled it Legends, but look where the sequels ratings are at now. Look at the future of Star Wars movies with George Lucas and Dave Filoni. Retconning the movies and the sequels. In my opinion, the EU is still canon. Disney never changed that for me.
Honestly, that whole history is one of the worst losses under the legends rebrand imo. I loved the jedi apprentice series growing up, and the whole history with Tahl (and Siri for that matter) was a great, compelling story. It may never have been true canon, but the loss of that history to give perspective on the events of the films and what if scenarios like this is one of the things that most soured me to the sequel trilogy from the outset.
@@danielkeller1337 Disney being bad doesn't make the EU suddenly part of Lucas's vision. Lucas barely paid attention to any of it, running roughshod over it with the prequels and TCW. For him, it was little more than an extra source of revenue. Occasionally, he would pick up a comic that caught his eye, and incorporate a design into his films, but that was pretty much the extent of his concern with the EU.
I didn’t use force speed because I was lazy. Look where it got me.
He struck you down and made you more powerful than he can possibly imagine
At least have it you lazy bum XD
Anakin was the chosen one until, Palpatines Clone Arrived🙄
The Rebellion Won! Except a new empire will rise in 35 years😤
Luke Skywalker saved the Galaxy, and Started a New Jedi Order, Until a New Darth vader made him pout on an island..😠
Boy do i hate the Sequels
none of that actually happened. disney is not canon. only lucas is canon. everything anakin and luke did was not for nothing.
@@pelgervampireduck meaning clone wars is still canon as Lucas had direct involvement in its creation
@Nathan Marmaduke
*(waves hand)* 👋🏾
There IS no Sequel trilogy.
@@cinemagraphic6324 sequel trilogy? What sequel trilogy?
Also don’t like the prequels any better buddy.
I love the idea that Obi-Wan is sent to spy on Qui-Gon just like how Anakin was sent to spy on Palpatine. With Qui-Gon and company distancing themselves from the order around the same time as tensions rise in the galaxy, I could see the council becoming highly suspicious of them, especially if they suspect someone working both sides but aren't sure who it is. Palaptine takes advantage of their suspicion and fuels it with propaganda against the 'fallen Jedi'. He knows Obi-Wan was close to Qui-Gon and could threaten to unravel everything and that Obi-Wan is a lot less corruptible than Anakin so he sends his apprentice after him hoping that the Jedi's suspicious death would be blamed on the trio.
Everyone is corruptible. Even Gary Stu Kenobi.
@@englishlady9797 How is Obi-Wan a Gary Stu?
@@Cabolt44 He has no flaws, doesn't struggle and has no character development.
Qui-Gon was the best the Jedi had. He was a true example of a Jedi who followed the Force as they were always meant to
“This Is Where The Fun Begins...”
Fascinating Question.
We got OT Infinities comics, prequel ones would be cool.
Disney Trilogy ones...would not sell.
Slicer Neons Disney is fanfic anyway
@@akumaking1 idk. I feel like real fans would know more what fans would like. I've read fanfic better than the sequels. Hell the fanfic referenced in this video is better than the sequels.
@@akumaking1 Disney isn't fanfiction, you gotta be a fan to make fan fiction. Disney hates Star Wars, hates the fans. Star Wars is being made by people who hate Star Wars.
"There's always a bigger fish."
I use “summon bigger fish!”
A "Star Wars - What If?" official series could be fascinating.
The 'what if' rabbit hole is a dangerous one to go. In fantasy *and* in real life.
I like the idea of Douku being a good guy, very interesting
In those situations I often wish we could just call George Lucas on the phone and ask how he intended it, as in whether destroying the Jedi was part of the Force's "plan".
I don't think that is necessary. In my mind it is more interesting to let everyone form their own interpretations which is what art is all about.
I like to think so.
If only he wasn't Qui-Gone :'(
I hate you
nice
Your dead to me lol 😂
If Qui Gon Jinn were alive, he would've been a great teacher to Anakin.
I think then anakin would have a yellow or in rare case purple lightsaber
@@shahishnusureshkumar248 nope in 77 they only could really get the red and blue color contrast to work on screen. Green worked for jedi because of the blue sky in the background...
If the comic books are anything to go by, then Sidious' apprentice after Maul, in lieu of Dooku, would probably have been Sora Bulq(the only other jedi besides Mace to master Vaapad), who was turned to the darkside in the comics by Dooku, or alternatively, Quinlan Vos, who was sent on an infiltration mission by the jedi council to turn to the darkside to gain Intel. He flipflopped back and forth between the light and dark several times before finally staying on the light. Both jedi were near the peak of skill for the Jedi warrior type, Bulq more so. He was the battle master before Cin Drallig was appointed to the position sometime after Episode 2. Both were well known, highly talented, ferocious Jedi Masters. Bulq was middle aged like Mace, and Quinlan was Obi-Wan's age, so much younger than Dooku's ancient feebleness.
Fun fact, it was Sora Bulq's dabbling with Vaapad that eventually turned him to the darkside for good.
I don't see Sidious accepting Ventress as she was an untrained, failed, jedi padawan when Dooku found her. Too unskilled and too much connected to the light side. If we had to stretch his choices far and wide, I'd suggest Mother Talzen possibly, as he originally promised her the position before he took Maul from her. She might be willing to join him when she learned the Jedi killed him.
I think Sidious would take Ventress as his apprentice. She was a nightsister who was trained by a stranded Jedi. her master was killed by pirates because the Jedi abandoned him. after her master died, Ventress killed all of the pirates!
Dooku found her and trained her just as an assassin and she was still able to contend with powerful Jedi like Anakin, Obi-wan, and Luminara. she is not as powerful as Count Dooku, but her training was limited. the criteria is not power or skill, it is potential. if she had been trained by Darth Sidious, she could be a worthy apprentice for sure.
I like the idea of Quinlan Vos being Sidious's apprentice, but he turned to the dark side because of his mission with Ventress which happened late in the clone wars.
While Sora Bulq is canon, there is almost no info on him.
Mother Talzin is definitely strong enough to be the apprentice, but I feel like her loyalty would always be to her sisters rather than to the Sith so I'm not sure Sidious would accept her or that she would accept being Sidious's apprentice.
I have spoken
I love your interpretation of this alternate timeline. I would like to think that Anakin would find Padme again and he would leave the Order. Anakin is a family man at heart. His time training under Qui Gon and Dooku would have likely made him far more mature than he was in the OG timeline. With Qui Gon as a father figure, Anakin would likely become a great father to Luke and Leia.
On the will of the Force, I think of it as impersonally reactionary in reference to a homeostasis. Similar to how cells in living organisms aren’t necessarily sentient and cannot be anthropomorphized; they still act and react to changes enacted on their homeostasis based on the laws of physics that govern them.
*TLDR: The will of the Force is governed by an impersonal force (as in the laws of physics) but the way it plays out looks as though sentient beings are making their own decisions: A white blood cell “chooses” to attack a pathogen; a Jedi (servant of the will of the Force) “chooses” to stop a Sith.*
The Force “seeks” balance/homeostasis just like an action potential “seeks” to zero out an imbalance in energy.
It’s impersonal, but often uses sentient beings to carry out its inclination toward equilibrium.
Balance is not a universe full of beings who would seek to push the balance toward one side (+) or the other (-). But rather, those who seek to bring it right back to homeostasis. Both autoimmune diseases and cancer could represent ways in which the light side can be over-done to the detriment of balance, while pathogens and physical trauma are equally detrimental to bodies’ equilibrium.
To this end, it’s absolutely necessary for midichlorians to exist in the Star Wars universe, because there needs to be a physical influence coming from the non-physical Force. The only way around this would have been to make souls in every living being as the connection between the Force and sentient beings, but this still lacks a physical connection. Midichlorians were a much cleaner way of describing the non-living, impersonal Force’s connection to manipulatable, physical servants (“immune cells” & “pathogens,” if you will). Many Sith hated this control that the Force had (a lack of ultimate free will) and sought to destroy the fulcrum point on which the balance of light and dark rested in an attempt to gain some semblance of “free will.” But in the end, the Force, which makes life possible, always finds a way to restore homeostasis.
Underrated comment. I love your perspective on the Force's homeostasis-like qualities. I personally like using the symbol of a rubber band. If you put tension on a rubber band(imbalance), the rubber band will always try to retain it's original flaccid shape. Even if you were to break the rubber band, it will still technically exist and perform it's original function of tense/release.
Alright, I was skeptical when this showed up in my notifications. Usually, I hate theories about Qui-Gon living because they make him out to be infallible and the 'perfect' Jedi to teach Anakin because he would let Anakin do whatever he wanted and encourage him to form attachments. They put all the blame for the Jedi's genocide on Obi-Wan because he was weak and couldn't teach Anakin properly while disconnecting all the other context of Obi-Wan taking Anakin as his padawan. I appreciated how you kept Qui-Gon more true to his canon personality and I LOVED that you put in the bit of he and Dooku encouraging Anakin to let go of his mother. From what we got in TPM, I don't see Qui-Gon as someone who encourages attachments so I don't understand why some fans think he would be totally cool with Anakin's attachments to his mother and Padme. Overall, I loved this. It was so great and really well thought out. It's definitely the Prequel dream.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on anakin and padme not getting together because anakin had dreams of her every night and I think at some point he would’ve told qui gon because he used to have feelings for another Jedi
Keep in mind those visions/dreams may have been influenced by Palpatine, who would no longer be in the picture. Plus, in the end, I do think there's a chance he ends up with Padme still.
@@thorskywalker they were influenced but he still would've had them, they just wouldn't be as vivid or strong
The visions were made by anakin
"In my experience there's no such thing as luck" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
The Force brought about that first fateful meeting of Anakin and Padme. As Queen, she should have remained safely aboard her ship, but 'finding him was the WILL of the Force'.
Just as she was also meant by the Force to love, support and protect Anakin from the Dark Side. She provides a positive influence on him right up until her pregnancy in ROTS. It's Palpatine and the Jedi Council that create the conflict within him, not Padme, who's presence he finds 'soothing' to his heart.
The Jedi are encouraged to 'love' others by being caring and unselfish, but also be able to let them go. So loving Padme was initially good for Anakin, up until he became overwhelmed by the fear of losing her. Palpatine works on this fear of abandonment, the fear of death, and turns that into his greatest weakness:
"The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side - compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion - of not thinking of yourself all the time."- George Lucas.
Thor remember how ROTS ends. With Yoda and Obi-Wan leaving the Skywalker twins to be raised in stable loving family homes, rather than with the Jedi. The two surviving Masters finally recognised what it was that Anakin had been missing all that time, and thus ensured it was given to both Leia and Luke. 'Family' being a main theme of Star Wars:
"And obviously there are two sides to the redeemer motif in the Star Wars films. Ultimately Vader is redeemed by his children and especially by having children. Because that's what life is all about? Procreating and raising children, and it should bring out the best of you."
-George Lucas
@@mr.safensound4238 this is cool and all but
Ahsoka: "obiwan always say there is no luck"
Anakin: "luckily you have me to tell you otherwise"
@@The_Attack_of_Geek 😂 Anakin and Ahsoka's dialogue can be so funny
Another thing: if Dooku didn't become Palpatine's apprentice, Sifo-Dyas would've also lived, and probably joined him and Qui-Gon in distancing themselves from the order and training Anakin. It is also likely that the clones would've had a different template since it was Dooku who recruited Jango Fett.
This is why the lightsaber battle at the end of The Phantom Menace is one of the best in the saga. It’s so visually satisfying but also immensely important for the story. The only problem is a lot of people don’t understand it’s significance because of how it was written.
The dominoes just fell into place
Its called Duel of the fates for a reason. That's what I love about GL. The lightsaber fightes were not just flashy, they often had a deeper meaning.
@@Anwell100 Good point! A lot of people- especially Obi Wan Kenobi fans take issue with the idea Qui Gon would have been a better teacher because how dare you say their boy isn't perfect in some way! How dare you.
The butterfly effect is beyond imaginable, we can only guess.
This is the content i subscribed for. I miss this theorizing alot
Qui-Gon had a particular set of skills to keep Anakin in the light, so they could defeat the Sith.
It has been over two years since a What If. Please make one Thor Skywalker.
Skills that he acquired over a very long career, skills that make him a nightmare to the Sith!
The way I fix the Dooku thing is that he personally was zoned out and had left in spirit before Qui-Gon death. He was also not taking as many missions either as his heart wasn't fully into it. Qui-Gon's death was the catalyst for him to formally leave the order.
I think if Qui Gon lived, he could have mentored Anakin in an 'unofficial" way. Ani would still be Obi-Wan's Padawan, but Qui Gon would be "Older Brother/Dad" of the unit, mentoring them both. Basically what happened with Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi Wan, but with Anakin in Ahsoka's place (Padawan), Obi Wan in Anakin's place (Jedi Knight and Official Teacher to the Padawan) and Qi Gon in Obi Wan's place (The Master/Teacher to the Jedi Knight that is the Master of Padawan)
Agreed completely. There is no way the force would want thousands of Jedi to die. That's seriously dark and it doesn't feel right.
But things had to change. Your ideas that end with Dooku as the new chancellor make complete sense.
Anakin might have been able to meet Padme again and possibly earlier. Qui-Gon, Anakin and Dooku would not likely have been able to stay in the Jedi Temple nor Coruscant as a whole. Dooku's home world could have been one potential base of operations; the other possibility would be on Naboo, granted by a grateful Queen Amidala for saving her planet.
Nice video Thor! The balance of the force and Qui Gon's role in all of this are some of the most fascinating questions in Star Wars. Jinn was the father Anakin could've had, but unfortunately, Palpatine and Maul changed their destinies.
This is the sort of content I like. Very interesting!
last time i was this early obi-wan wasn't a good character
wait.. that never happened
Prequel meme subreddit when they see the first half of your comment: omae wa mou shindeiru
vinnievu1 NANI?
*SHARP PITCH NOISE*
*How could this happen, we're smarter than this*
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
I don't think Obi Wan would ever have any angry towards his Master Qui Gon, Obi Wan would also be a teacher to Anakin also like a brother.
I love these what if videos! This is what got me hooked on this channel.
This is definitely a best case scenario. Probably what the force intended to happen.
By all accounts Qui-Gong should have won that fight. Our timeline is probably the alternate bad one that just so happens to make for a better story.
I think, trained under Qui-Gon, Anikan would've turned out the hero he was supposed to be.
I disagree with a few things,
1. That Anakin and Padme would not get together. As shown with Yoda's Force Ghost training, one of the problems with the old Jedi is that they deny their emotions out of fear of falling instead of accepting their emotions but not letting them control them. Furthermore, love plays a huge role in the prophecy coming true in George's canon. Padme was constantly a thorn in Palpatine's side even though he did use her death against Anakin.
2. I feel Qui-Gon and Anakin would be convinced to join the CW by Obi-Wan, however unlike in the main timeline the duo soon quartet (as Obi-Wan would still team up with his master and "brother" and Ashoka would still be introduced to help Anakin to let go) would be more involved and successful in unraveling Palpatine's plans. Most notably saving Fives and stopping Order 66. (Obi-Wan, Ashoka and eventually Yoda would also learn to become "true" Jedi and learn the Force ghost ability)
3. Dooku would still fall (as the clone army needs to happen and was set up pretty early on) but return to the light.
4. I disagree that the Force is neutral, its actions and what it sees as balanced are largely benevolent, which is fitting as George intended the Force to be a mix of religions.
5. The losing of the Jedi's power was not the Force's doing, it is explicitly called out to be due to the "Shroud of the Darkside".
6. Thanks to the investigations and in this scenario Anakin and potentially Ashoka (as a Jedi Knight) and Qui-Gon would join Mace, leading to the Jedi's victory, leading to Padme taking Palpatine's place and the Jedi order as a whole being redeemed.
Wow that's deep. So when Obi said 'I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you," on Mustafar, he was saying that he had failed to keep his promise to Qui gon? 🤔
I do believe that's a big part of what he meant then, yes.
I loved it. It was interesting throughout. I can't say I disagreed with any of it. Granted, I'm not a writer, I'm a reader; and within the series of events you laid out, there were a few surprises for me...particularly Dooku's role in the aftermath. I especially liked that part.
I wonder if Obi Wan would be swayed to the dark side instead of Anakin in this scenario. Perhaps over the years he would get jealous of Anakin for all the praise and attention he got for being the Chosen One, the main hero of the Clone Wars (if he still fights in it), and for becoming a Jedi Knight and eventually Jedi Master in less time than he did. Meanwhile, Obi Wan had to work harder and longer to get as far as he did considering he had a lower midichlorian count, and may feel like it was unfair. Palpatine may tempt Obi Wan with this jealousy which would turn to anger and resentment. Palpatine would also tempt him with promises of greater and more quickly gained power through the Dark Side, and maybe use his feelings for Duchess Satine for good measure. Even if Obi Wan turning to the Dark Side wasn't likely to happen, I would imagine this would be the most plausible way.
I like your theory. It makes sense.
Thor, love the channel, but really miss all of the fanfic you used to tell. It's what got me hooked on the channel. Please, please, make more fanfic!
Yeah, I'm going to be getting back to that sort of thing. I've missed doing it as well.
"And whether the Jedi Council would let Qui-Gon train Anakin... I think either way, Qui-Gon is going to take and train him." You just summed up Qui-Gon PERFECTLY in a single sentence and I love it! Qui-Gon is my favourite character from the prequels, so I'm really happy to see a video focusing on him :D
I do wonder though, on the subject of Shmi, whether when Anakin started having the visions of her suffering, Qui-Gon wouldn't have forbidden Anakin from doing anything, as you say... but then gone on his own and rescued her without ever telling Anakin that he'd done so. We know from TPM that he will go out of his way to help people when he can - such as talking Boss Nass into releasing Jar Jar to go with them instead of punishing him (non-canon, but the video game adaption even rephrases Qui-Gon's dialogue in that scene to "he is still an important life-form, and I will not see him suffer"); and after all, in TPM he did try to free Shmi as well as Anakin, only Watto wouldn't be persuaded - so I don't think he would have just sat back and been fine with the idea that she was being tortured somewhere. But doing it this way still allows him to make the situation into a suitable lesson for Anakin, since Anakin won't know that he's done it.
Just a thought though ^^
It all sounds pretty reasonable! Great video.
My only problem with discussions like this is the idea that the Force might be sentient in some way, having desires of its own and manipulating people to bring them about. But you address that near the end of the video in a pretty smart way. It's established fact in the movies that the Force has a "will," so why not make it a huge, instinctive agent of change? I like that. In your conception (as I see it) the Force is kind of like the ocean, and just as water will always find its own level, the Force will always find balance.
It's interesting that the majority of the Jedi are wiped out in both the "worst case" scenario of the movies and the "intended" scenario you describe here. I know you're implying that some remnant of the Jedi survive Order 66 and get retrained in the end, but it's hard for me to see a scenario where more than a handful of them survive in any universe where the Clone Wars still occur. It seems like a pretty direct chain of cause and effect: Clone Wars begin --> Jedi become generals for the Republic, putting them in close contact with clones --> Order 66 wipes them out.
Although maybe... In this alternate timeline Qui-Gon, Anakin and Dooku wouldn't just be sitting on their hands while the Clone Wars were raging. They'd be following the will of the Force, which may lead them to exposing Palpatine's plans before they can come to full fruition. So maybe the Jedi could have been saved from near obliteration.
Completely unrelated to the video, but come on guys, let's do Jorus/Joruus C'baoth in the next vote!
He's one of my favourite Legends characters, and his ignorance when it comes to his own evil is very interesting.
I'm surprised you didn't mention this... Balance is no dark side users, only light... Hmm, watch some video's about Lucas discussing the "balance" concept. He explains that the dark side is selfishness and looking inward, while the light is selflessness at the cost of all attachment and personal wants/needs, looking only outwards basically... Balance in the force is defined by him as no dark side and only light existing (incidentally this is why a "grey Jedi" can't exist, 1 selfish act is considered the dark side). Vader killing Palpatine and dying while a light side user prevailed was the point of balance, not the state of the galaxy at the end of RotS. So it does not matter if the Jedi are destroyed, just that there are zero dark side users and at-least 1 light side'r. Regardless, great video and thank you for the 'food for thought'. Have a good one!
There can definitely be former Jedi that no longer follow the code strictly. Maybe grey Jedi is a bad term, but one isn’t a sith simply because they want to have attachments, for example. Maybe ex-Jedi?
Qui Gon‘s death sealed the galaxy‘s fate. Dooku‘s and Anakin‘s fall came through his death and without Dooku and Anakin Palpatine would have failed
not too sure about that, the sith had planned ahead for 1000 years, Sidious could of easily got another apprentice to figurehead the CIS.
ItsJonny he could have but I don’t think he would have been as strong or had the same influence and even money like Dooku
@@ontasbulent5709 He really didnt need to be close to Dooku in power, he needed to be a puppet for Sidious to use. The danger of the CIS wasn't really Dooku tbh, it was that the jedi were to slowly trust the clones that they wouldn't belive that they could be betrayed them
Dooku was already on the Dark Side, although not yet a 'Sith apprentice'. It years of painstaking manipulation and grooming to take a powerful Jedi Knight and lure him over to the Dark Side. We know Dooku becomes Sidious' new apprentice as soon as Maul is killed. And so the Sith must have had Dooku in their sights long before the unexpected death of Maul. Since that is how they work, they always have a back up plan.
"Always TWO there are, no more, no less" -Yoda TPM
If they didn't have Dooku ready, then this would make Yoda's statement false. Since with Maul's death, Palpatine would remain the ONLY Sith. I.e. the only ONE. But we know they must always have TWO.
"First comes the day, then comes the night, after the darkness shines through the Light. The difference they say is only made right, through the resolving of grey through profound Jedi sight!" ~Journal of the Whills, 7477, The Force Awakens!) For @Thor Skywalker and every or anybody else!)
I Will NEVER Join the Dark Side!!!
Not Yet!
Sith have cookies
That is why you fail... you deal in absolutes! Never say never.
Darth Sidious: *Enters the Chat*
Darth Sidious: Let's talk about your wife Padmé and the Jedi Order.
@@thorthewolf8801 only a sith deals in absolutes
Darth Vader doesn’t exist if Qui Gon survived!
Ya
Obviously this is an idealised thought about what could happen; but there isn't much drama here. Anakin is a kind of Rey here and Thor is underestimating Palpatine as he would come up with something else nefarious to obtain unlimited power. Sure, Anakin would probably defeat him in the end, but there has to be more carnage than this.
Awesome video as usual and agree with this alternate outcome...just a side note...how would you see the mortis arc playing out? I imagine qui-gon would be far more interested in the Father's outlook and that would influence Anakin (could only make him more powerful)...also it's possible ahsoka could be apprenticed to kenobi and how less of an outsider she'd be (except she may not survive the purge in the new timeline)
Obi-Wan was wiser than Qui-Gon in episode 1 and even Qui-Gon admitted it. And maybe Qui-Gon joins Dooku and things are much, much worse. Obi-Wan was one of the wisest Jedi ever and he couldn't save Anakin because of Padme. Without that attachment, Anakin doesn't turn. It wouldn't matter if it was Qui-Gon or Mace training Anakin, Anakin would have betrayed the Jedi to save Padme every time.
I think the most significant part of this alternative timeline might be that Qui Gon left the Jedi Order in order to train him. It meant that he’d never be influenced by Palpatine nor join the clone wars.
The same could have happened if Obi Wan had left the order to train him had the Jedi forbade him from training anakin.
Part of me still feels like Mundi would have been a great master for Anakin. Or Plo Koon. But mostly Mundi. They have similar personalities, especially when Mundi was younger. He was able to learn how to control his emotions and ultimately became a council member. He could teach Anakin how to do the same, in theory.
And honestly in some respects I think Mace Windu would also be an excellent master for Anakin. He absolutely would have the potential to teach Anakin how to turn his emotions and love of combat into a tool of the light. And eventually a well trained and mature Anakin would absolutely be able to use vaapad. Combine that with him mastering tutaminis, because he would, and he'd annihilate Sith. Anakin could shoot their lightning back at them, close the gap, jump into vaapad and just shred them with his saber. That would be glorious. He probably would wreck Palpatine even.
But to answer your question; I think you are pretty spot on with how things would have gone down had Qui-Gon survived the duel with Maul. With the main possible difference being the council would be significantly more likely to listen to Qui-Gon than Obi Wan. Jinn was supposed to be a council member, after all, but refused the position. So Qui-Gon might have ultimately been able to sway enough of the council to get their support as his wisdom and his connection to the will of the force were known in the order. So he might never leave and Dooku might stay as well. But, if Qui-Gon deuces out, you know Dooku is right behind him.
Qui-Gon would have trained Anakin and everything would have been fine.
It was his destiny to become Vader.
Great video !
Didn't you oversight the fact that force users kinda can read minds, like vader on the original triology finding out about Leia through Luke, and probably thats how Palpatime find out abot Padme
The jedi could do that too, they said to Anakin that his thoughts dwell on his mother. I think they can only really read minds if the victim is concentrating on a thing.
Yes, it probably was a overshight...but force-sensitives can sense feelings and read thougths and I get the impression that Palpatine does this a lot with everyone in the prequels to know how he can tempt them. The 2nd is harder to do, but the 1st is rather easy. Also both the force-sensitive need to pay attention, kind of seeking for something concrete while the target needs to be thinking on the matter for feelings or thoughts to be picked up.
Just think exchange between Anakin and Palpatine in ROTS gives it away:
Palpatine: "I know what's bothering you: I can help you to save your wife"
Anakin: "What have you just said!?"[angry]
Anakin wasn't expecting this bomb dropped in his face, so he obviously told nothing to Palpatine about anything at all. So either Palpatine has an amazing spy network or he used force stuff on Anakin or he may have foreseen futures and he's just gambling to find the sweetspot. Either way how Palpatine pierces through Anakin is meant to be big bad secret sauce :P
Disenfranchised with the Jedi? I think you mean "Disenchanted." I don't think Dooku's problem is that the Jedi won't let him vote.
The Prequel Jedi didn’t need to be destroyed, their current mindset did.
If Dooku and Anakin stayed in the light, we would totally get to see Darth Jar Jar. "Hey Ani, meesa Sith Lord now!"
I think this sounds reasonable. My only concern is no Ahsoka :-(
This for the most part is what I think would happen keeping in mind that the question isn't what would happen if qui got lived but its what would happen if the force acted freely and allowed the unconvoluded chosen one phrophecy to be forfilled. Loved it man. Has wanted a video on something iv had a hard time chosing between. That being what is the correct way to utilise the force. By that I mean which way do YOU align with and prefer, qui gons old way where u act solely through the force almost with no will of ur own. Or luke new way of embracing and encouraging emotion and love and controlling it to act through the positive passions of the universe. As we see luke somehow aligns very strongly with the will of the force but also loves very strongly. Han leia his family. Biggs and later on mara jade. Id like a discussion on this and what u believe is the right way to be a jedi. Obviously not including disney trilogy as they fk up luke and his ideals and alignment with the force
ive only got 2 questions
1. will obi-wan still be like anakin's brother
2. will anakin still meet ahsoka and be her master
I think not, which makes this the only thing I hate about this fan fiction.
Thank you very much for this. I enjoyed it immensely.
i wonder though if love/infatuation would follow anakin regardless. as soon as padme is mentioned in episode 2 he is nervous and crazy about this woman he hasnt seen for 10 years. that tells me he is really seeking attachment, he holds certains values about love. afterall hes pining for girl he met briefly as an 8 year old for a decade...seems to me more about Anakin than about Padme to me. that part of his huberis i think is inevitable because i think he would transfer that obsession to someone else and to say that anyone could teach anakin to put that out of his mind i think is a little unlikely. was Obi-Wan taught to put Satine aside or did he chose that because thats his personality? i love thinking about this stuff hahaha
I actually believe the opposite. For the good to shine through in the end the bad had to happen first.
I'm comparing this to the real world: because ww2 happened the world got shaken up and reorganized itself. The UN got created and countries like Germany and Japan got rebuilt from scratch and have become important countries. Today they aren't viewed as a danger but as a valuable partner.
I think Thor's assessment is plausible. The clone wars would still have happened, Qui Gon would have been against it but the council would have ignored him. So order 66 would still have happened and the Jedi order would have suffered terrible losses. This combined with it all being orchestrated by a Sith lord under the Jedi's noses, and the Jedi order's waning powers could easily have been enough to shake them out of their failed ways. In short: plenty enough "bad" would have still happened to change things ..
I believe anakin being raised and trained by the jedai was a "metaphorical" last chance given to them by the force to reform because besides destroying the current sith who had gotten to powerful and dangerous, I suspect that the force may have added some side objectives of dismantling the factors that caused the current siths rise to power which were the republic and the jedai of that Era, be it reform or fire
I'd love to see this as an animated series. They could essentially make a new version of The Clone Wars with the same voice actors, and it would be interesting to see how Maul and Ahsoka fit into this story.
Qui-gon, the soul of the Jedi.
I think it's reasonable. Though I don't think Qui-Gon would separate from the Order as much as you think, nor do I think they'd leave Anakin's mother to simply be a slave or to die. The Force showed him visions of her for a reason. It WANTED her to be saved.
or did Palpatine show Anakin those visions?
@@jasomjensai-starwars2652 We've no reason to believe he did.
@@ZehnWaters except that it would turn Anakin more to the dark side, which is one of Palpatine's main goals. sure, there is no proof he did make the visions, but there is no proof he didn't. so it can be a reasonable theory, a hypothesis theory.
Thor Skywalker I hate that TH-cam does this. I thought I had my notification setting to give me all notifications for your channel, but it was set to personalized. No wonder I’m so out of the loop on your videos, I usually watch them within a couple of hours, a day at most of being uploaded
I love this timeline! I just wish Kenobi had a bigger part in it. I suppose he is still the one to kill Grievous and survives order 66? Then he’s be one of the few Masters on the council left to rebuild the order.
This is a great video you have great ideas for star wars
Sith code says : The force shall set me free!
That means the Sith are beyond the Force's control The son of mortis also had the ability to jeoperdize balance which he nearly did with Anakin's future visions
Through victory, my chains are broken... and then, you will be broken
@@goodmind4940 exactly
@@goodmind4940 I've never heard that part. That's Awesome! whether a Sith says that to an enemy or an enemy says that to a sith, it's so fitting.
Ok this is the movie we need for star wars.
Side note: I feel I finally understand the struggle between the outer rim planets and the core planets by watching The Expanse. This tension was never really conveyed to us in the Eps 1,2 , and 3, imo.
Since Palpatine was at odds with the council and so was QuiGon and Dooku in a different way, that would definitely be a possible "in" for Palpatine
Its not canon anymore, but there's a passage in the Darth Plaguies novel which really speaks volumes.
“It’s not for you to decide your destiny, Anakin,” Obi-Wan said. “The Force will guide you.”
Palpatine smiled inwardly. Dooku had talent, and could be a powerful placeholder. But this seemingly guileless pleasant-faced boy, this Forceful boy, was the one he would take as his apprentice, and use to execute the final stage of the Grand Plan. Let Obi-Wan instruct him in the ways of the Force, and let Skywalker grow embittered over the next decade as his mother aged in slavery, the galaxy deteriorated around him, and his fellow Jedi fell to inextricable conflicts.
He was too young to be trained in the ways of the Sith, in any case, but he was the perfect age to bond with a father figure who would listen to all his troubles and coax him inexorably over to the dark side."
To answer that big question, whether all the Jedi were “supposed” to be destroyed: I think yes and no. I think the Force chooses to punish selfishness and pride, regardless of what form it takes: whether that’s Jedi or Sith. I think that, to bring balance, the Force must destroy selfishness, which the Jedi of the prequel era certainly suffered from. Then, it was the Sith’s turn to be destroyed in the OT era, and the ST era I guess.
The way I see it is the Jedi had lost their way. The Force used Anakin to wipe them out so they could be rebuilt by his son. Perhaps that was part of the prophecy that the Jedi ignored. They only cared that the Sith would be destroyed.
Or maybe that wasn't Anakin's original purpose. The Force merely used him since he was there. Makes you wonder if Anakin was ever truly free, or if his entire life was planed out by the Force.
QuiGonJinn surviving or someone unorthodox training Anakin would have helped The Jedi order & the galaxy so much hands down ✅.
Loved the vid, but I don’t think the clone wars would’ve happened to begin with. As we learn in season 6 of CW, it was actually Dooku who placed the order for the clone army, so the Republic wouldn’t have had an army to fight off the droid army therefore making Palpatine’s takeover easier because he would just be able to introduce a new order under the separatists, skipping the whole war.
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Trew leader standing by!
All according to plan, standing by!
Red October, standing by!
Canon Fodder, standing by!
I love the story between anakin and padma😭😭😭
Personally, if Qui-Gon survived, i would like to see Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Anakin all team up together. They would still go on missions, and Obi-Wan would be like an older brother to Anakin, and Qui-Gon the father figure of them both.
I like the addition of Dooku piecing together the Jedi and the Galaxy after Sidious' death, but also think Yoda should still be involved in many ways.
Qui-Gon teaching the Jedi how to follow the will of the force as a Force Ghost.
That sounds friggin awesome not gonna lie
If I wrote SW stuff, I’d give fans an alternate 7,8 and 9 that would explain how there are alt time lines due to a fracture in time and space created by Palpatine. I’d explain that Luke corrects this issue and wipes out ALL versions of SW after E3. I’d alter all of SW by having Luke amass power through the cosmic force to appear to Anikan after his dream of Padme’s death and teach him everything that would happen. I’d have Luke walk away from the great battle between good and evil/Empire vs Republic and instead, use his new power to repair the schism/fracture resulting in his own death and the end of all of the alt time lines.....now, we would find ourselves in Palpatine’s office, Windu and the other Jedi entering to arrest him and when Palpatine leaps across the desk, his light saber would collide with ANIKAN’S! Anikan vs Palpatine would be ferocious for a few seconds and then, Mace and the other Jedi joining in results in a brutal defeat for Palpatine. This would lead to Padme becoming the new chancellor, Obi-wan leading the clone army to victory and peace through the galaxy. We’d close up the story with Anikan in white, along with Yoda and Obi-wan teaching younglings. Two of them being Luke and Leia.
If this is considered a Legends scenario, I think a good candidate who could both have been Palpatine's apprentice and lead the Separatists, would be Sev´rance Tann, who for those who don't know, was a female Chiss Dark Jedi who was supposed to be the Supreme Commander of the Droid Armies before Grievous, but who died during the early days of the Clone Wars. Basically a female Thrawn with Force powers
Edit: Spell check
You mean she was a Skywalker, since Chiss with Force Powers are dubbed Skywalkers.
I’ve always hated the idea that everything would’ve simply been perfect with Qui-Gon as Anakin’s master. In my opinion, Anakin’s self-indulgence would’ve been just as bad, if not worse, under Qui-Gon.
I agree that people overexaggerate how perfect it would've been if Qui gon had survived, but I do think it would be better. Qui gon was less strict, but Anakin listened to him. when Qui gon told Anakin to hide rather than fight in the Battle of Naboo, he did. (well, he tried. he did accidentally save all the Gungans, but he tried to stay out of danger) Anakin wouldn't listen all the time. if his mother was in danger, he would probably sneak away and help her, but he would listen more to Qui gon than to Obi-wan.
I have Spoken
Anakin is not a whiny brat in the 1st movie though. He is selfless. He changes a lot after spending 10 years with Obi Wan. I don't think he would be like that if he had spent them with Qui Gonn. Yeah he still has attachments in 1st, but if he had somone else to rely on, a true father figure, Palpatine could not have swayed him so easily.
@@Anwell100 Anakin is not a whiny brat in the 2nd movie though. sure he complains about being held back, but from his point of view, he is the chosen one and yet he's been learning from this guy who is barely more powerful than him for ten years. he doesn't even complain that much.
Perhaps the most significant part of this timeline is that Qui Gon leaves the order to train him. That meant he couldn’t get close to palpatine.
I seem to recall Palpatine wanted Obi Wan to be assigned to protect Padme, probably with the intent of getting them both killed. It was the Jedi Council who sent Anakin off to protect her.
Attachments have been gone into before. They are not inherently evil, and there are other sources of weakness. Extreme detachment is just as bad. It often makes people into amoral sociopaths. The "the justifies the means" philosophy, which was basically espoused by the Jedi could be seen as characteristic of this.
Thor always uploads while I’m in therapy and I always watch him while I’m doing my workouts 😭
Thor: video suggestion your dream Star Wars film? Also which directors would you love to do a Star Wars film?
Perhaps, if it was Mace Windu training Anikin instead of Obi-Wan, it'd have a better outcome. It's been said that Windu is in balance with the light and dark side of the force, his purple lightsaber showing off that balance, he may then have contact with Qui Gon's force spirit and gets advice from there.
I think qui gon jinn would come with him to save his mother
Sounds right to me. Quite Gone Jim was trying to follow the will of the Force and the Sith are a corruption of it.
Oooh I love me some good Qui-Gon survives scenarios. The only thing I disagree with is Dooku joining Qui-Gon and Anakin so early. I agree that Qui-Gon’s death was what tipped Dooku into becoming a Sith, but I also think that he is so convinced that he is the only one who knows what is needed to put the galaxy onto what he sees as the correct path, and is so reluctant to rely on others, even his old padawan, that he would be more likely to become a separatist leader (though not an outright sithly one) and serve as an antagonist in some form to Anakin for at least the first half of the hypothetical AU. I like your idea of Dooku becoming Chancellor after Palpatine, though. Maybe Dooku could be the redemption arc character.
I think we've actually got a canonical - if allegorical - depiction of how the Chosen One was supposed to work, and of the various outcomes that were possible. We have it in the Mortis arc of Clone Wars.
The Mortis Arc is basically an allegorical retelling of the story of the films. The Daughter represents the Light side, the Son represents the Dark. The Father is generally given the role of the Will of the Force, but I don't see that. I see _Mortis_ itself as the Will of the Force. The Father, I think, represents the Jedi. After all, the Father believes that the role of the Chosen One is to replace him. Anakin was never going to _become_ the Will of the Force.
Seen this way, we can reverse-engineer a bit what Anakin could have done. Early on in the arc, Anakin is tested by the Father, to see if he can master both the Son and the Daughter, a test that Anakin passes. The Father then tells Anakin that this means he is destined to stay on Mortis to replace him - but Anakin refuses. This leads to the rest of the story, to the death of the Light, and the rise of the Dark.
If the Father represents the Jedi, and Anakin replacing him was the intended outcome, then I think the real world story would be, in broad strokes: The old ways are dying. After the death of Yoda (because let's face it, the main reason the Jedi are so stubborn and conservative is Yoda keeping them that way), the Jedi would be in turmoil. Nobody can remember a time when anyone other than Yoda was in charge. Anakin would face some great trial, in which he would have to control both the light and the dark sides. After this trial, Anakin would become the Grandmaster of the Jedi, and would lead a renewed order into a future that looks a lot like Luke's new Jedi order in Legends.
This, or something like it, is what I think the original design was. It's what would have happened if Qui-Gon had trained Anakin, as was intended. Because Qui-Gon wasn't there, Anakin chose his attachments instead of his 'purpose'; so the prophecy was fulfilled via...alternate means.
1st I want to say, enjoyed the video.
While I agree if Qui Gon would not have died Anakin would have faired better under his training, but I disagree with what you say of how things would have happened. If Qui Gon would have told Anakin to not love and to walk away from Padme and his mother then he would have again turned to the dark side. Obi-Wan was not such a horrible teacher that Qui Gon could have better trained him to let go of attachments. I agree Qui Gon would have pulled Anakin away from the things of the Jedi Order because The light side is more important than politics. But I don't think Qui Gon would have told Anakin to throw away attachments. The Jedi were wrong when it came to that. It is the biggest downfall of the Jedi. Compassion is the greatest strength of the light. Qui Gon always chose to do the will of the force over what the Jedi Council wanted. This is the reason that I can't stand when people try to say Qui Gon was a gray Jedi. He wasn't He was more light than anyone.
the Jedi said attachments are bad, but they encouraged compassion. attachments and compassion are very different. the Jedi were flawed, but I think they were right about attachments.
I have always fundamentally believed he did become the chosen one because:
1. The Jedi were massively unbalancing the force by being so numerous and so powerful, purely on the light side.
2. Anakin destroyed the Jedi, and at the end it was only 2 sith and 2 Jedi left. (Excluding EU/ non movie stuff)
Balance.
I don't get how people still hold this view? Especially on this channel
Agreed AAJ.
Qui-Gon was the only jedi acting like a jedi! So i do believe they were meant to be destroyed!! Obi-wan was the “perfect “ Jedi in the counsels eyes and even he could not sense the good in Vader! Shows just how far they had fallen
Bravo! Keep thinking! Bravo!
I'm still partial to the hidden Jedi village ending. :-D
What if force is something like, determines people destiny. Anakin's destiny was destroy Sith but everything between beginning and end of this chain of events was uncertain. He could have stayed Jedi or became Sith or something different like, be a smuggler, but his destiny was still same; destroy Sith. Fun to speculate about force.
My the force be with you always