Glad you did this. It helps put a little perspective on why you actually have EQ at all, rather than trying to fix everything by trying to buy the perfect measuring speaker or going crazy with massive room treatment.
Thank you Joe for this great demonstration. DSP is a wonderful thing. I run a 5.4.2 system, all except my center channel speaker, are RSL Speakers and MB has made them sound better than ever. Before I found this wonderful app called MB, I was using MultEQ-X and using a 1000 Hz curtain with a generic tilt curve and I thought it sounded good but here comes MB and I couldn't be happier with the calibration results for my speakers in my room. I use the SVS Ultra for my Center channel and I love how it sounds.
I've got Prosonus Eris 4.5 2nd gen they sound pretty good to me for a casual multi media environment for films and games. Still a huge improvement over TV speakers or soundbars for same price. Only comparable speakers in this price range is Edifier R1700BT but from sound demo's these sound too coloured and lack clarity.
Excellent video, Joe! Having just bought a pair of these 3.5s for my tiny studio, and discovering that they didn't seem as flat as studio monitors ought to be, this video was just what the doctor ordered! I bought these because my 5" Tannoy reveals were taking up too much space on my desk, and they were old and beaten-up, so I wasn't sure if I could trust them for accuracy. I also thought the 3.5s made sense, because most people listen to my music on small computer speakers, anyway. Now I just need to figure out how best to use my old hi-fi amplifier to just power a passive subwoofer that I have. I probably ought to get hold of a crossover unit so that the bass frequencies don' t go to the Presonus 3.5s. Any tips on what I should look for? Thanks again!
There's no cheap way to do it that isn't overly complex. It's probably best to get something like a MiniDSP 2x4 or 2x4HD. You can also look into the Dayton DSP 408. They're significantly more expensive than these speakers though. Or you can get the sub I showed. If you try the EQ on your set, let me know what you think.
@@joentell Thank you for the tip, Joe. I sent the Presonus speakers back and ordered Edifier MR4 instead. As for the passive sub, I found another way to connect it, using gear I already have. Anyway, congrats on the excellent videos. Keep 'em coming! Liked & subscribed.
Great video. It would be interesting for you to do this with Erin's most hated speaker (B212XL or B215XL) that don't have good DI. They must be paired with a subwoofer and can get very loud while playing clean. Maybe more suitable for HT, but I have a pair in my garage because there's nothing like loud to me. How does one weigh DI when loudness is important and of course wants to be cheap? For me, if they can't get loud, I couldn't care how accurate they are, but to each his own.
The DI on those don't look too bad to me. I think they might sound a bit bright with EQ in a typical room because of the horn, but I think they're worth a try in a budget HT situation.
FWIW if you've got REW running, you don't really need Magic Beans. Just use REW's EQ feature. Set up the "Target Settings' and "Filter Tasks" and then select "Match Response To Target". It will then calculate and determine all the EQ settings needed to create the closest match. I've used it for both my car audio and desktop audio system. Also, while Equalizer APO is nice, I think it's better to just use an external DSP, and Dayton's DSP408 is pretty decent for that job. Plus it's easy to control it from the PC and you can save multiple settings - like one for every pair of speakers, and you don't have to worry about the settings disappearing if something happens to the PC 🙂 I use a DSP permanently attached below my desk and 6 of its 8 channels are used to adjust the response of the 4.1 surround sound system I have in place on and around the desk. The other two channels I use while building and/or testing other speakers
To be clear, MB isn't simply conforming the nearfield to a flat target response. It looks at other parameters to determine which corrections to make. Also, is there a way that you've found that will generate graphic EQ settings automatically from REW? I know how to do PEQ and convolution, but not graphic EQ.
@@joentell No doubt MB is a slick piece of software, but the website suggests a starting price of $680, which IMO puts it a bit beyond the reach of many DIY desktop tweakers. As for REW and graphic EQ, it is possible, but not straightforward unfortunately. Here's how you can emulate the use of a graphic EQ: Select the "EQ" option, ensure that the EQ option is set to "Generic", then select "EQ filters" and set the number of filters you need to use to "PK" and their Qs to the Q of the graphic EQ that you're trying to emulate (the more filters, the higher the Q should be). Also configure the center frequencies of each filter to match those of the graphic EQ that you're trying to emulate. Set the other filters you won't be using to "None" and deselect their "Auto EQ" option. Once you've done this, save the filter set, because it's always a bit of work to have to do this again for another measurement, LOL. Now, after doing all of this, when you're ready to use REW's auto-EQ option, instead of selecting "Match response to target", select "Optimise gains" under "Manual optimisation controls". REW will now try to adjust the response to meet your target curve by adjusting only the gains of the filters that you just configured. Presto-zappo - graphic EQ 🙂
@@Grommet2007 Appreciate the information about REW. I will have to test that out sometime. Regarding the starting price of $680 for MB, I'm not sure how you arrived at that number. The standard is $249 and we sometimes run sales.
@@joentell Near the bottom of the home page for the Magic Beans website, I see the price of "True Target" is listed as $680 and "True Target Pro" is listed as $1,089. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing...?
Proper frequency response/balance is not everything. Imaging, dynamics, details are also important. So I believe GR + MB will bring you even better results. 😉
hah, good video. those are treble messes... so much treble and sucked out mids. good end result though but yeah rather get good out the box so less tinkering
Hi Joe, I did enjoy the video and seeing you re-dsp the little speakers to be actually listenable. Thanks for the windows EQ suggestions I will try them out.
Those speakers are too garbage to begin with. Presonus dared to call them 'studio monitors' when they don't have anything to do with such. I have to say that Presonus has caused a lot of harm to beginner/poor musicians and should be busted up due to it. IIRC they did this again with their latest "studio" series. Though if someone is using these you just might have helped someone out of a catastrophical problem of completely ruining musical creations. Even though straightening the FR of these doesn't fix other problems, it can help.
Perhaps they are too bad to start with. I took it as a challenge because I thought it was so interesting that their on-axis frequency response was so bad but their directivity was rather good, which means they could've just EQ'ed it to sound better out of the box.
u can tune any speaker to your liking now but u cant fix bad or cheap hardware. Why buy cheap speakers and spend twice as much on dsp to fix speaker? Its nice that its doable now but that doesnt mean crappy speaker are all awesome now. It just means you can tune ur speakers to get the best out of them. If ur gonna spend money on a dsp i would buy more expensive quality speakers to make it worth it.
i did experiments like this before with small speakers. i was surprised to find that the schiit loki eq (the original model not the now upgraded) bright out a ton of surprising clean bass from the small speakers. you might give that a shot if you have it.
I have one. It was a good little device. These speakers need more than the 4 adjustments though and the last thing it needs is added deep bass extension.
Equalizador A.P.O é o melhor para configurar caixas no computador. Ele cria mais um canal, ficando com 2.1 ( reais ). Para ver que realmente existem 2.1 reais de canais, uso outro aplicativo que fica perto do relógio do Windows ( é o Sound Locker ). No caso do subwoofer é só usar o high pass filter. Mas eu consegui configurar no subwoofer também o low pass filter. Não instalei a interface Peace. Eu tenho várias configurações para as caixas 2.1 que tenho já uns 20 anos ou mais da marca ( Speed ) no equalizador A.P.O. Eliminei tudo da configuração original do A.P.O e criei um arquivo no Bloco de notas com essa configuração, é a que mais estou gostando no momento, está abaixo, com o comando ( include ) dentro do A.P.O. ::::::: Copy: LFE=-0.25*L+-0.25*R Channel: L R Preamp: -3 dB Filter: ON PK Fc 400 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 1.4 Filter: ON HP Fc 100 Hz GraphicEQ: 50 0; 100 0; 200 0; 400 0; 800 0; 1600 0; 2500 0; 4000 0; 6300 0; 10000 0; 16000 0 Channel: LFE Preamp: -8.2 dB Filter: ON LP Fc 100 Hz Filter: ON PK Fc 35 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 1.4 Filter: ON PK Fc 60 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 1.4 Filter: ON HP Fc 40 Hz GraphicEQ: 25 0; 50 0; 100 0; 200 0; 250 0; 400 0 ------------------------------------ Tem que configurar o driver Realtek em 5.1 e eliminando as caixas que não estarão em uso, ficando só com 2.1. Tem que colocar as caixas como Small ( desmarcar full range ). Para caixas 2.1 vendidas para computador, são aquelas ligadas somente na saída verde do computador. 2.1 que tenho, as 2 caixas menores são ligadas no subwoofer e ele que tem o amplificador. 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I would rather buy new speakers with bigger bass units (8-15 “) By the Way studio monitors ain’t made for listening to music but rather listen when making music. And why you keep calling them speakers when they are just studio monitors 😂😂😂
@@joentell And good studio monitors are great speakers. If someone like certain sound colorization it can be done pretty well on studio monitors too (as shown on the video), because those are usually very "EQable". The only problem with studio monitors for home use is that those are usually ugly as hell 😅
@@joentell 😂 yeah you’re right but the real question is what is best for playing music ( and not just sitting in front of em ) studio monitors are made for studios 🫣 I guess you can’t really argue with that 😂
Glad you did this. It helps put a little perspective on why you actually have EQ at all, rather than trying to fix everything by trying to buy the perfect measuring speaker or going crazy with massive room treatment.
Perspective is the key word. EQ isn't the solution to everything either, right?
@@joentell ...depends on what you can afford...😁
Thank you Joe for this great demonstration. DSP is a wonderful thing. I run a 5.4.2 system, all except my center channel speaker, are RSL Speakers and MB has made them sound better than ever. Before I found this wonderful app called MB, I was using MultEQ-X and using a 1000 Hz curtain with a generic tilt curve and I thought it sounded good but here comes MB and I couldn't be happier with the calibration results for my speakers in my room. I use the SVS Ultra for my Center channel and I love how it sounds.
I've got Prosonus Eris 4.5 2nd gen they sound pretty good to me for a casual multi media environment for films and games. Still a huge improvement over TV speakers or soundbars for same price. Only comparable speakers in this price range is Edifier R1700BT but from sound demo's these sound too coloured and lack clarity.
This was pretty amazing. I think Yamaha should drop a ton of cash on you and replace YPAO with Magic Beans in future products.
We can dream. 😉
Excellent video, Joe! Having just bought a pair of these 3.5s for my tiny studio, and discovering that they didn't seem as flat as studio monitors ought to be, this video was just what the doctor ordered! I bought these because my 5" Tannoy reveals were taking up too much space on my desk, and they were old and beaten-up, so I wasn't sure if I could trust them for accuracy. I also thought the 3.5s made sense, because most people listen to my music on small computer speakers, anyway. Now I just need to figure out how best to use my old hi-fi amplifier to just power a passive subwoofer that I have. I probably ought to get hold of a crossover unit so that the bass frequencies don' t go to the Presonus 3.5s. Any tips on what I should look for? Thanks again!
There's no cheap way to do it that isn't overly complex. It's probably best to get something like a MiniDSP 2x4 or 2x4HD. You can also look into the Dayton DSP 408. They're significantly more expensive than these speakers though. Or you can get the sub I showed.
If you try the EQ on your set, let me know what you think.
@@joentell Thank you for the tip, Joe. I sent the Presonus speakers back and ordered Edifier MR4 instead. As for the passive sub, I found another way to connect it, using gear I already have. Anyway, congrats on the excellent videos. Keep 'em coming! Liked & subscribed.
Great video. It would be interesting for you to do this with Erin's most hated speaker (B212XL or B215XL) that don't have good DI. They must be paired with a subwoofer and can get very loud while playing clean. Maybe more suitable for HT, but I have a pair in my garage because there's nothing like loud to me. How does one weigh DI when loudness is important and of course wants to be cheap? For me, if they can't get loud, I couldn't care how accurate they are, but to each his own.
The DI on those don't look too bad to me. I think they might sound a bit bright with EQ in a typical room because of the horn, but I think they're worth a try in a budget HT situation.
Wow, I can hear the improvement over my phone speaker. Magic Beans 😮. Great video!
Nice! Great video Joe! The song was perfect👍
Considering the directivity, where do you think the E3.5 Gen 2 would land on the leaderboard for the best overall sound quality?
They're still very limited speakers. They would definitely rank higher with EQ than without
If you don't need it to play very loud (meaning spl headroom) then EQ is powerful tool.
FWIW if you've got REW running, you don't really need Magic Beans. Just use REW's EQ feature. Set up the "Target Settings' and "Filter Tasks" and then select "Match Response To Target". It will then calculate and determine all the EQ settings needed to create the closest match. I've used it for both my car audio and desktop audio system. Also, while Equalizer APO is nice, I think it's better to just use an external DSP, and Dayton's DSP408 is pretty decent for that job. Plus it's easy to control it from the PC and you can save multiple settings - like one for every pair of speakers, and you don't have to worry about the settings disappearing if something happens to the PC 🙂 I use a DSP permanently attached below my desk and 6 of its 8 channels are used to adjust the response of the 4.1 surround sound system I have in place on and around the desk. The other two channels I use while building and/or testing other speakers
To be clear, MB isn't simply conforming the nearfield to a flat target response. It looks at other parameters to determine which corrections to make. Also, is there a way that you've found that will generate graphic EQ settings automatically from REW? I know how to do PEQ and convolution, but not graphic EQ.
@@joentell No doubt MB is a slick piece of software, but the website suggests a starting price of $680, which IMO puts it a bit beyond the reach of many DIY desktop tweakers.
As for REW and graphic EQ, it is possible, but not straightforward unfortunately. Here's how you can emulate the use of a graphic EQ: Select the "EQ" option, ensure that the EQ option is set to "Generic", then select "EQ filters" and set the number of filters you need to use to "PK" and their Qs to the Q of the graphic EQ that you're trying to emulate (the more filters, the higher the Q should be). Also configure the center frequencies of each filter to match those of the graphic EQ that you're trying to emulate. Set the other filters you won't be using to "None" and deselect their "Auto EQ" option. Once you've done this, save the filter set, because it's always a bit of work to have to do this again for another measurement, LOL.
Now, after doing all of this, when you're ready to use REW's auto-EQ option, instead of selecting "Match response to target", select "Optimise gains" under "Manual optimisation controls". REW will now try to adjust the response to meet your target curve by adjusting only the gains of the filters that you just configured. Presto-zappo - graphic EQ 🙂
@@Grommet2007 Appreciate the information about REW. I will have to test that out sometime.
Regarding the starting price of $680 for MB, I'm not sure how you arrived at that number. The standard is $249 and we sometimes run sales.
@@joentell Near the bottom of the home page for the Magic Beans website, I see the price of "True Target" is listed as $680 and "True Target Pro" is listed as $1,089. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing...?
How important is directivity when listening nearfield I wonder….
Yes, the muddy dull sound is significantly reduced!
Pretty cool no need for GR Research 😅
Ha! If I could DSP every passive speaker, I would.
Proper frequency response/balance is not everything. Imaging, dynamics, details are also important. So I believe GR + MB will bring you even better results. 😉
The music used isn't very good. Autotuned, quantized.
can you do an eq video for mr4's?
I don't have these anymore
Great demonstration of what EQ can do! Stock just sounded like horse poop, they sounded rather good after the high pass and EQ!
This was great!
tq bro love ur videos..this helps me to make my decision
hah, good video. those are treble messes... so much treble and sucked out mids. good end result though but yeah rather get good out the box so less tinkering
Would you please fix the Ai41 as well 😅
I think I recall some of those having issues with the compression limiter being too aggressive. I wouldn't be able to fix that.
Does MB work for car audio?
It can, but it isn't optimized for that.... Yet
Hi Joe, I did enjoy the video and seeing you re-dsp the little speakers to be actually listenable.
Thanks for the windows EQ suggestions I will try them out.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. This is the kind of stuff I do for fun. Sad I know. 🤣 I just decided to make a video out of it this time.
Those speakers are too garbage to begin with. Presonus dared to call them 'studio monitors' when they don't have anything to do with such. I have to say that Presonus has caused a lot of harm to beginner/poor musicians and should be busted up due to it. IIRC they did this again with their latest "studio" series. Though if someone is using these you just might have helped someone out of a catastrophical problem of completely ruining musical creations. Even though straightening the FR of these doesn't fix other problems, it can help.
Perhaps they are too bad to start with. I took it as a challenge because I thought it was so interesting that their on-axis frequency response was so bad but their directivity was rather good, which means they could've just EQ'ed it to sound better out of the box.
I would like to ear Dave Rat is opinion on this..ahah
u can tune any speaker to your liking now but u cant fix bad or cheap hardware. Why buy cheap speakers and spend twice as much on dsp to fix speaker? Its nice that its doable now but that doesnt mean crappy speaker are all awesome now. It just means you can tune ur speakers to get the best out of them. If ur gonna spend money on a dsp i would buy more expensive quality speakers to make it worth it.
i did experiments like this before with small speakers. i was surprised to find that the schiit loki eq (the original model not the now upgraded) bright out a ton of surprising clean bass from the small speakers. you might give that a shot if you have it.
I have one. It was a good little device. These speakers need more than the 4 adjustments though and the last thing it needs is added deep bass extension.
Equalizador A.P.O é o melhor para configurar caixas no computador. Ele cria mais um canal, ficando com 2.1 ( reais ). Para ver que realmente existem 2.1 reais de canais, uso outro aplicativo que fica perto do relógio do Windows ( é o Sound Locker ).
No caso do subwoofer é só usar o high pass filter. Mas eu consegui configurar no subwoofer também o low pass filter. Não instalei a interface Peace.
Eu tenho várias configurações para as caixas 2.1 que tenho já uns 20 anos ou mais da marca ( Speed ) no equalizador A.P.O.
Eliminei tudo da configuração original do A.P.O e criei um arquivo no Bloco de notas com essa configuração, é a que mais estou gostando no momento, está abaixo, com o comando ( include ) dentro do A.P.O. :::::::
Copy: LFE=-0.25*L+-0.25*R
Channel: L R
Preamp: -3 dB
Filter: ON PK Fc 400 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 1.4
Filter: ON HP Fc 100 Hz
GraphicEQ: 50 0; 100 0; 200 0; 400 0; 800 0; 1600 0; 2500 0; 4000 0; 6300 0; 10000 0; 16000 0
Channel: LFE
Preamp: -8.2 dB
Filter: ON LP Fc 100 Hz
Filter: ON PK Fc 35 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 1.4
Filter: ON PK Fc 60 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 1.4
Filter: ON HP Fc 40 Hz
GraphicEQ: 25 0; 50 0; 100 0; 200 0; 250 0; 400 0
------------------------------------
Tem que configurar o driver Realtek em 5.1 e eliminando as caixas que não estarão em uso, ficando só com 2.1. Tem que colocar as caixas como Small ( desmarcar full range ).
Para caixas 2.1 vendidas para computador, são aquelas ligadas somente na saída verde do computador.
2.1 que tenho, as 2 caixas menores são ligadas no subwoofer e ele que tem o amplificador.
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
yeah they sound awful even when listening on my laptop speakers lol
Nice job. I think I would pass.
Probably a smart choice to choose better speakers and optimize them for the speaker placement after.
Sounds like a 90$ pair of speakers
Can you make your magic beans cheaper $200 is a lot of money :-( can't afford that
It goes on sale occasionally. Keep an eye out
I would rather buy new speakers with bigger bass units (8-15 “)
By the Way studio monitors ain’t made for listening to music but rather listen when making music. And why you keep calling them speakers when they are just studio monitors 😂😂😂
All studio monitors are speakers but not all speakers are studio monitors.
@@joentell And good studio monitors are great speakers. If someone like certain sound colorization it can be done pretty well on studio monitors too (as shown on the video), because those are usually very "EQable". The only problem with studio monitors for home use is that those are usually ugly as hell 😅
@@joentell 😂 yeah you’re right but the real question is what is best for playing music ( and not just sitting in front of em ) studio monitors are made for studios 🫣 I guess you can’t really argue with that 😂