You need to edit the other video because many people won't see this one. Good video. I was an electronics tech for several years and have been an audiophile for the last 30. Grounding issues are not uncommon. Outlaw seems to have an excellent design. I prefer when chassis are grounded as it makes the whole appliance like a Faraday Cage and reduces outside interference. Ideally everything would be grounded and shielded in the whole signal path!
Be very careful with ground lifts. Understand what you’re doing. If a piece of equipment has a mains earth connection, it probably has it for safety reasons, so think very carefully before disconnecting it. Lifting the shield connection at one end of a signal cable can also work to eliminate hum, without compromising your safety, but it very much depends… And that’s the problem with earth loops, it’s rarely clear what the solution will be… there may not even be a solution. Maybe there should be more balancing transformers sold as accessories.
This was actually driving me crazy when I got my outlaw 5000x. I’m not expert so after hours and hours and hours of reading online I finally came across someone saying just use speaker wire to connect one end to the outlaw and the other end to receiver hum was gone lol
A tip i got when hearing humm noise is to disconnect every input 1 by 1 until you find out what's causing it.. even the source (bluray players etc) from your hdmi to your receiver can cause it.. This is pretty frequent in uk
Nice follow up, dont worry about error, we've all been there in our professions. Ive always gotten a ton of helpful info from your channel. You were quick to set the record straight. Learn something new every day. I had hum on my old stereo with an rca connection at one point and now i know how i could have gotten rid of it.
Hums, can come from just about anything in the chain. I drove my self crazy with my Parasound amp at the time. My hum was coming from my cable TV coax cable. I used a Jensen transformer on the cable line and that eliminated the hum. This happens on Parasound and my Outlaw 7000x..The 7000x is a great amp dead silent with the transformer on the cable line. This amp cannot be beat in this price range. It performs as well as my Parasound A23, if not even better. A23 is a two channel for about the same cost as the 7000x, I was very surprised how it compared.
Thank you for this!! I was turned off to outlaw, after seeing your last video. Outlaw is now back in the contention of me picking them and my amps. This let me know I they have put a fair amount of engineering and thought into there products. I appreciate that! Thanks again!
Definitely edit your first video so . You should relisten to both amps again and give us your opinion on the difference in sounds and performance. Nice follow-up. Good for you and us, and outlaw audio.
It took me a while to figure out, but mine was caused by my ISP rg6 cable. Plugged that cable into my Furman power conditioner/filter before the Comcast router. Clean as a whistle now.
I bought ground loop and attached it to the end of the comcast cable going to my AVR , that solve my humming sounds. (Old house) New house no problem at all, no need to use my ground loop.
Outlaw is great, I love my 7000X and being connected to a Denon receiver sounds exactly like your Marantz, or a no issue to me. I really wish they would expand their line with a 3 and maybe a 2 channel as more people get into Pre-Pros. Great follow up!
@@tainle no humming sound on my HT. The sound is clean and powerful, thanks to the amp. Made dancing night several times with very loud music and it’s as smooth as it gets. The Outlaw has incredible power and never gets hot. Comparably have an older 120W Denon receiver in another room and when playing loud music would overheat and shut down or drop the volume. Put your receiver in energy saving if it doesn’t have the pre amp decoupling.
This was a good video. One thing I wish you had done at the end would have been to test to see if the same red wire had any effect for the minor noise from the Marantz connected to the right speaker. It was nearly inaudible but testing it out would have been interesting.
I wonder if the difference with your preamp vs the marantz was that the preamp might have a stronger preout voltage vs. the marantz. All things being equaul you might have heard the same amount of ground noise
And THIS is why pro-audio systems use balanced connections. It’s not just the noise-rejection you gain from balanced audio connections, it’s the fact that the audio signal and chassis earth are separate things and never touch or even reference each other. You can connect balanced audio systems with a stack of devices and hundreds of XLR cables running every which way between them and almost never encounter even the slightest ground loop issue. Whereas with unbalanced equipment, some of it having a ground-bonded chassis, and some that leave the chassis floating, some RCA connectors connecting chassis ground to audio ground, and some not… it’s a lottery. There are unbalanced designs that help mitigate possible ground loops, and you hear plenty of fully unbalanced systems with not a hint of buzz or hum… but sometimes something comes along that upsets the whole apple cart, and it can be almost impossible to fix. But it would be a start if all subwoofer inputs and outputs used proper balanced connections at least. That would solve 85% of the issues. That’s the one development I’d most like to see on mid and high-end AV receivers, and it would cost almost nothing. Glad you found a fix. And I don’t think you’ve been dumb at all, you just got bitten by the limitations of the system.
Hi Elan, so are you able to put both a turntable and amp ground wires under the same turntable ground on the avr? Or separate them? One under a chassis screw and the turntable by itself under its own ground? Thanks ahead of time.
According to some forum posts, you need to keep multiple grounding wires separate. So you could connect the turntable to the turntable grounding pin on the AVR, and the amp grounding wire to the AVR chassis, for example.
You can always just use one of the chassis screws to ground. It’s nice if there is a dedicated pin but all you need is wire to a metal screw to the chassis.
Thanks Elan for finding the solution But I have a different issue I have outlaw 7500 It has huge white noise without any input provided The white noise only goes down with XLR s connected to a prepro And one channel has more white noise than the rest How can I fix it In general I have more white noise on this amp when compared to my other amp
Oh goodness, I’m not sure about that. If you have Instagram, try DM-ing Outlaw Audio (@outlawaudiollc), since that’s the quickest way I got through to them. That or email their support team. I wish I could help more! 🤘
I have the marantz 7015 as well with the emotiva xpa 7 channel gen3. No hum. HOWEVER, I did have one nasty hum though, and narrowed it down to the trigger cable going to my SVS subwoofer from the Marantz. How do you get rid of that?
u gave the denon x6500h, it have a grnd connector on the back. I tried this trick with my emotiva bas x7 power amps but it would not solve the 60hz hum very low not loud as yours, maybe it is loud as the marantz you have. any other tips?
As far as I know, all speakers create a hiss to some degree when they’re ready for a signal, and if you have your ear right next to the tweeter. But I’ll be doing more tests in the upcoming weeks to see if that’s true or not. During those tests on camera, the boom mic was literally millimeters away from the tweeter.
No. The IOTA's audio processing is great, so it just removed the buzz, allowing me to hear what the AVX17 is actually capable of. :) Using XLR cables has no buzz whatsoever, so grounding to the chassis, it was suddenly on par with XLR quality, which was such a relief!
Nice job Ealan. How would I find the ground on my Rotel RMB1066? It doesn't have a ground pin and has no ground ac implying double insulated? If so, how could I ground it to my denon 3700?
Hmmm…You can always ground by unscrewing a screw on the rear portion of the Rotel chassis, wrapping a copper wire around the screw, tightening the screw again, and connecting the other end in the same fashion on the Denon. Or connected to the signal ground near the phono input on the Denon. I think… 😄
hi can i connect my windows pc to sr8015 signal gnr because while i'm playing a game there's buzz on my speaker or only from amplifier to avr and can i do the same connecting amplifier xpa 11 gen 3 to avr sr8015 or not
I have the Denon x4700h and am looking to get amps for my speakers and use my Denon as a processor. If I get two of these amps, can both amps connect to the same ground screw on the Denon? Or would I have to ground each amp to a separate metal screw on the chassis of the Denon to eliminate the humming?
I’m honestly not sure. But, in theory, grounding is such a basic/simple process of just making sure electrons are flowing to a grounded source, I would think grounding two amps to one screw shouldn’t be a problem. 🤘
In fact, connecting both to the same grounding terminal would in fact (theoretically at least) be better. It makes a very simple kind of star-earth connection. It’s all a bit of a kludge ultimately, but if it works and is safe (which this is) then it’s all good.
Ealan I would get a separate Avenue processor with some XLR cables to get rid of that humming and hissing noise from your system. Also I would recommend some audiophile true power cables to get your stuff some good clean power.
Please edit the other video. It is causing a lot of people to believe the Outlaw has a hum issue. This is just lazy. Update the other video or continue to get reported.
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You need to edit the other video because many people won't see this one. Good video. I was an electronics tech for several years and have been an audiophile for the last 30. Grounding issues are not uncommon. Outlaw seems to have an excellent design. I prefer when chassis are grounded as it makes the whole appliance like a Faraday Cage and reduces outside interference. Ideally everything would be grounded and shielded in the whole signal path!
Yup! That can happen. I use a ground lift to eliminate hum as well.
Yeah, man! Live and learn! 😄
Be very careful with ground lifts. Understand what you’re doing. If a piece of equipment has a mains earth connection, it probably has it for safety reasons, so think very carefully before disconnecting it. Lifting the shield connection at one end of a signal cable can also work to eliminate hum, without compromising your safety, but it very much depends… And that’s the problem with earth loops, it’s rarely clear what the solution will be… there may not even be a solution. Maybe there should be more balancing transformers sold as accessories.
This was actually driving me crazy when I got my outlaw 5000x. I’m not expert so after hours and hours and hours of reading online I finally came across someone saying just use speaker wire to connect one end to the outlaw and the other end to receiver hum was gone lol
Yeah! Easy peasy! 😁
As SOON as I connected a gound speaker wire the hum was completey gone I mean we can here NOTHING at ALL, Except GREAT SOUND! Thanks Outlaw!
Hooray! 🎉
Thanks for the follow up. This is good to know, considering I have a 7000X showing up at my house Saturday 😂
Haha! Yay! It really is a fantastic amp 👍
A tip i got when hearing humm noise is to disconnect every input 1 by 1 until you find out what's causing it.. even the source (bluray players etc) from your hdmi to your receiver can cause it.. This is pretty frequent in uk
Helps if you get a power filter like panamax, my hun went away with that power distribution unit.
excellent video! This has to be one of the most informative autio/videos troubleshooting 101 videos ive seen on youtube.
Thanks, David! 😁🤘
Thanks for your help Ealan.
You’re welcome!
Nice follow up, dont worry about error, we've all been there in our professions. Ive always gotten a ton of helpful info from your channel. You were quick to set the record straight. Learn something new every day. I had hum on my old stereo with an rca connection at one point and now i know how i could have gotten rid of it.
Hums, can come from just about anything in the chain. I drove my self crazy with my Parasound amp at the time. My hum was coming from my cable TV coax cable. I used a Jensen transformer on the cable line and that eliminated the hum. This happens on Parasound and my Outlaw 7000x..The 7000x is a great amp dead silent with the transformer on the cable line. This amp cannot be beat in this price range. It performs as well as my Parasound A23, if not even better. A23 is a two channel for about the same cost as the 7000x, I was very surprised how it compared.
Thank you for this!! I was turned off to outlaw, after seeing your last video. Outlaw is now back in the contention of me picking them and my amps. This let me know I they have put a fair amount of engineering and thought into there products. I appreciate that! Thanks again!
Absolutely! I wasn’t sold either until I found the REAL problem. 😁🤘
Definitely edit your first video so . You should relisten to both amps again and give us your opinion on the difference in sounds and performance. Nice follow-up. Good for you and us, and outlaw audio.
It took me a while to figure out, but mine was caused by my ISP rg6 cable. Plugged that cable into my Furman power conditioner/filter before the Comcast router.
Clean as a whistle now.
I bought ground loop and attached it to the end of the comcast cable going to my AVR , that solve my humming sounds. (Old house)
New house no problem at all, no need to use my ground loop.
Exactly. You never know what your house might introduce into an audio signal. 👍
Outlaw is great, I love my 7000X and being connected to a Denon receiver sounds exactly like your Marantz, or a no issue to me. I really wish they would expand their line with a 3 and maybe a 2 channel as more people get into Pre-Pros. Great follow up!
do you have a humming sounds like found in this video with your denon avr? i got a x6500h denon, so wondering if i should get the outlaw 7000x.
@@tainle no humming sound on my HT. The sound is clean and powerful, thanks to the amp. Made dancing night several times with very loud music and it’s as smooth as it gets. The Outlaw has incredible power and never gets hot. Comparably have an older 120W Denon receiver in another room and when playing loud music would overheat and shut down or drop the volume. Put your receiver in energy saving if it doesn’t have the pre amp decoupling.
I have to try this with my minidsp. Ever since adding it for my subwoofers, Ive had a hum.
Yes. Definitely something to try. Pretty simple fix, if indeed it works for you. 🤘
It's pretty much what we do in Car Audio Installs when we get a ground loop.
This was a good video. One thing I wish you had done at the end would have been to test to see if the same red wire had any effect for the minor noise from the Marantz connected to the right speaker. It was nearly inaudible but testing it out would have been interesting.
Wasn’t just your video. It was the inter webs as well with the same user error. Glad you set the record straight.
Me too! I felt it was my moral obligation, since it's a kickass amp. :)
I wonder if the difference with your preamp vs the marantz was that the preamp might have a stronger preout voltage vs. the marantz. All things being equaul you might have heard the same amount of ground noise
Very useful video. Good job showing and not telling. ;-)
Thanks, man! I need to do more “show, don’t just tell” videos like this. 😄
And THIS is why pro-audio systems use balanced connections. It’s not just the noise-rejection you gain from balanced audio connections, it’s the fact that the audio signal and chassis earth are separate things and never touch or even reference each other. You can connect balanced audio systems with a stack of devices and hundreds of XLR cables running every which way between them and almost never encounter even the slightest ground loop issue. Whereas with unbalanced equipment, some of it having a ground-bonded chassis, and some that leave the chassis floating, some RCA connectors connecting chassis ground to audio ground, and some not… it’s a lottery. There are unbalanced designs that help mitigate possible ground loops, and you hear plenty of fully unbalanced systems with not a hint of buzz or hum… but sometimes something comes along that upsets the whole apple cart, and it can be almost impossible to fix. But it would be a start if all subwoofer inputs and outputs used proper balanced connections at least. That would solve 85% of the issues. That’s the one development I’d most like to see on mid and high-end AV receivers, and it would cost almost nothing. Glad you found a fix. And I don’t think you’ve been dumb at all, you just got bitten by the limitations of the system.
Hi Elan, so are you able to put both a turntable and amp ground wires under the same turntable ground on the avr? Or separate them? One under a chassis screw and the turntable by itself under its own ground?
Thanks ahead of time.
According to some forum posts, you need to keep multiple grounding wires separate. So you could connect the turntable to the turntable grounding pin on the AVR, and the amp grounding wire to the AVR chassis, for example.
@ealanosborne
Awesome.
Thank you Elan. I'm taking this advice.👍👍👍
Would be nice if all amps had that grounding pin just to make things easier.
I know, right? It’s a great fail safe🤘
You can always just use one of the chassis screws to ground. It’s nice if there is a dedicated pin but all you need is wire to a metal screw to the chassis.
Thanks Elan for finding the solution
But I have a different issue
I have outlaw 7500
It has huge white noise without any input provided
The white noise only goes down with XLR s connected to a prepro
And one channel has more white noise than the rest
How can I fix it
In general I have more white noise on this amp when compared to my other amp
Oh goodness, I’m not sure about that. If you have Instagram, try DM-ing Outlaw Audio (@outlawaudiollc), since that’s the quickest way I got through to them. That or email their support team. I wish I could help more! 🤘
I love my outlaw but I don't use a ground never had no problem
Thanks Elan!
I have the marantz 7015 as well with the emotiva xpa 7 channel gen3. No hum. HOWEVER, I did have one nasty hum though, and narrowed it down to the trigger cable going to my SVS subwoofer from the Marantz. How do you get rid of that?
Yikes, great question. I’d be so bold to just contact SVS directly. They’re incredibly responsive to support issues like that. 👍
DUH!!! Why didn’t I think of that? That’s why you are DA-MAN!!!
Thank you so much! I've been having this issue for months, thanks for helping me fix it.
You’re very welcome! 🎉
u gave the denon x6500h, it have a grnd connector on the back. I tried this trick with my emotiva bas x7 power amps but it would not solve the 60hz hum very low not loud as yours, maybe it is loud as the marantz you have. any other tips?
So just to recap, send a wire to both the avr and amp correct? Or just 1 or the other
Yeah, a wire connects both the AVR and amp to each other, essentially grounding them both 👍
Thank You
Thank you so much for the information my brother.
Nice solution for the buzzing .. but the amp itself still has a Hiss audible in all exampls ..even on camera.
.. reason?
As far as I know, all speakers create a hiss to some degree when they’re ready for a signal, and if you have your ear right next to the tweeter. But I’ll be doing more tests in the upcoming weeks to see if that’s true or not. During those tests on camera, the boom mic was literally millimeters away from the tweeter.
@@ealanosborne ...Understandable at Millimeters away.. yes. 🙏👍🏻.. Specs Matter.
Hi there, did you feel that grounding the Iota improved the sound quality in anyway for example maybe a little bit more clarity etc.
No. The IOTA's audio processing is great, so it just removed the buzz, allowing me to hear what the AVX17 is actually capable of. :) Using XLR cables has no buzz whatsoever, so grounding to the chassis, it was suddenly on par with XLR quality, which was such a relief!
Nice job Ealan. How would I find the ground on my Rotel RMB1066? It doesn't have a ground pin and has no ground ac implying double insulated? If so, how could I ground it to my denon 3700?
Hmmm…You can always ground by unscrewing a screw on the rear portion of the Rotel chassis, wrapping a copper wire around the screw, tightening the screw again, and connecting the other end in the same fashion on the Denon. Or connected to the signal ground near the phono input on the Denon. I think… 😄
@@ealanosborne haha good thinking. Thanks bud
this amp looks like a great deal, du you know if will work in EU with 220-240 V 50 Hz?
Great exercise !
How many amp can be grounded on a chasi?
I guess at least as many trigger outputs the preamp or AVR has
hi can i connect my windows pc to sr8015 signal gnr because while i'm playing a game there's buzz on my speaker or only from amplifier to avr and can i do the same connecting amplifier xpa 11 gen 3 to avr sr8015 or not
Come on dude you should have used the XLR inputs. Outlaw amplifiers win! Touchdown 🏈
Thanks for the review
Newbie here, does anybody know if OSD is the same build?
I have the Denon x4700h and am looking to get amps for my speakers and use my Denon as a processor. If I get two of these amps, can both amps connect to the same ground screw on the Denon? Or would I have to ground each amp to a separate metal screw on the chassis of the Denon to eliminate the humming?
I’m honestly not sure. But, in theory, grounding is such a basic/simple process of just making sure electrons are flowing to a grounded source, I would think grounding two amps to one screw shouldn’t be a problem. 🤘
You can stack wires on grounding posts. As long as the connections are good, and you tighten down the ground screw firmly, it should not matter.
In fact, connecting both to the same grounding terminal would in fact (theoretically at least) be better. It makes a very simple kind of star-earth connection. It’s all a bit of a kludge ultimately, but if it works and is safe (which this is) then it’s all good.
Ealan I would get a separate Avenue processor with some XLR cables to get rid of that humming and hissing noise from your system. Also I would recommend some audiophile true power cables to get your stuff some good clean power.
You’re lucky, being perfect carries a heavy burden.
Please edit the other video. It is causing a lot of people to believe the Outlaw has a hum issue. This is just lazy. Update the other video or continue to get reported.
Could be the rats nest of wires too you should definitely clean it up makes everything easier to manage