1959 GM 4104 Bus. Driving/Shifting
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- 63-year-old 1959 GM 4104 with a 6-17 Detroit Diesel and 4-speed unsynchronized manual transmission. 26,000 pounds and 35ft of riveted aluminum transportation history. Please correct me if any operation is observed as wrong. Everything I've learned about the bus and its operation has been from what I can find online and through trial and error.
As a truck driver, you are doing better than most who have never touched an unsynchronized transmission, eventually you'll learn how to float the gears and have a smother ride while saving your clutch
Spot on comment i own one of these i only touch the clutch at a light..thats it floating is you friend
You would have been impressed with my first time witha 9 speed road ranger then haha, to be fair though I was well aware of how an unsyncronised transmission worked so it kinda just came naturally.
Great job young man! I was about 11 years old when 1959 GM 4104 was popular and you just gave me a ride in the bus for old time. Thank for sharing this!
Arthur Thompson, i was 10
You’re handling that big bus really well. Driving a “crash box” transmission is a challenge but you get better by driving it. Double clutching will definitely get you into a smoother operation. Great old bus! These were everywhere in the 50s and 60s. Thanks for posting!
I would like to add that you don't have to rev the engine up so high when down shifting, and don't try doing it from 4th to third above 40 mph. Other than that, you're doing fine and you will get better with time. I will also " second the motion> about Scott Crosby. He is just outside Centerville, Tenn., south of exit 163, off I 40. I used to drive motorcoaches in Massachusetts, and I wish I had one for myself. My first choice would be an early MC8 though. 40 foot, manual or factory automatic transmixer, and an 8V 71 T Detroit engine. BTW, If you're up shifting without grinding gears, without double clutching, and it works for you, then that's your style of shifting and don't worry about it. Coming down a grade, with a stop at the bottom, whether you're in 2nd or 3rd, don't throw the clutch in until the dead last second. You need the engine braking to help with the stop. Depending on the brakes alone in such a situation is a BAD IDEA.
Thank you. Solid info
Cool last name. After seeing the Twilight Zone episode, when in a high pressure situation where I'd like to give up, I find my self saying "Next Stop, Willoughby!" I haven't jumped yet.
@@scatteredrustyprojects ,Thanks. That put a smile on my face. I have not seen that episode in some time, but as an old guy, I can honestly say I saw it when it first ran.
The biggest thing I was taught when driving a old transmission is there is a RPM range for the shift to happen and you can make the shift without the clutch.(it’s called floating the gears ) most people rev to high thinking it will give them more time to make the shift but it changes where to find that next gear up or down
what company? i was U.S. Express, King Ward, Travel Kus. I own a 4106.
@Ross - Nice video, nice to see a "youngster" interested in these old road warriors. Can't tell you how many miles/hours I have behind the wheel of 4104s, 4106s, the Buffalos, Crowns, Gilligs, Eagles, MCIs, etc. - over 35 years in the industry. Some thoughts:
1) DO NOT MOVE THE BUS until you have a minimum of 90-100lbs of air in the system!! Your brakes aren't worth diddly squat until your air pressure is up in the normal operating range of 85-120psi. I'm talking about the dash gauge - not the four little ones.
2) The four little psi gauges with the black knobs is your campground leveling system. Not knowing how it's plumbed (if it's by-passed the OEM leveling valves, for example), here's how to determine the correct psi readings - you'll need a bubble level and a tape measure. On a level surface, and keeping the bubble centered, raise/lower the psi in each valve until the top of the bottom entry step is 14" off the ground. Note the psi readings for each corner so you can keep it level for highway use.
3) The fact that you're learning how to get the coach rolling without using the throttle is a good thing - keep practicing. Put a white Styrofoam cup on the dash filled with water and practice until you can do it without spilling the water.
4) There is NO need for downshifting on city streets. Just keep it in gear until you're almost stopped, then slip it into first. 4th to 3rd coming off the freeway is fine, once you're in the proper speed range for 3rd, then grab the appropriate gear at the end of the offramp.
5) If you haven't found it already, go to busnut.com, click on the "BNO BBS" tab on the upper left, open the "Articles Of Interest" tab, scroll down, read, study, and memorize the "Pre-trip Inspection" and "Shifting" articles. I think you'll find them helpful. "Don't Leave Home Without It!"
6) The rubber mudflap hanging off the rear bumper can, and sometimes does, contribute to overheating. The factory installed a full-width mudflap directly behind the rear axle to create a low-pressure area under the rear of the coach, in order to help draw the hot air out from the engine compartment. The current bumper mudflap defeats the factory's cooling system air flow dynamics.
7) Scott Crosby's "Bus Grease Monkey" is a good site, and he's gotten much better over the years, after a somewhat rocky start. But that was over 8 years ago. . . You should also add Luke Bonagura at US Coach & Equipment in Vineland NJ to your list of contacts - he's the "go to" guru for parts for these old coaches. Works M-F, 9-4 Eastern.
That's all for now, hope this helps!
Awesome man thanks for the great info. I've been told the mudflap could be a problem before and have been meaning to remove it. A lot of good insight here-Thank you!
Point on! Drove plenty of 2 struck Detroits. You explained perfectly!! Ross listen to what this guy has to say and you’ll go great! Keep up the good work. I’m super jealous!! Haha.
I would start looking for air leaks, a half-hour is a long time to air up...
671s aren't rare, they're used in a lot of different industries and heavy equipment.
Go to a glass shop for side windows. It's all flat glass on the side, take them one for measurement, tell them it's for a vehicle so they give you the correct glass, don't tell them it's for a '50s vehicle and you should be fine. It's the rear glass that's hard to find!
Nice bus!
Good info. Thank you
Ross, just remember that this bus has a diesel engine. Diesels have a lot of low end torque which means that they run at lower RPM's that a gas engine. Three thousand R's is about tops and 1500 is a good driving engine speed. Now as far as the transmission, double clutching will get faster as you drive. For instance, first gear, shift to neutral, clutch out, then in, shift to second and so on. Down shifting is the same method only backwards. I would check the brakes ASAP. A vehicle doesn't have to go but it does have to stop. Good luck with this bus. There are a lot of people who love these buses and are willing to help a new owner.
2100-2300 rpm is top end on a old 2 stroke Detroit and that's absolutely SCREAMING. 2300 rpm from a Detroit sounds like 4600 because the 2 stroke has twice as many power strokes as a 4 stroke because the cylinder fires every up stroke unlike a 4 stroke that hits every other up stroke. Something else worth mentioning is the fact that you don't need to throttle coming out of the clutch because of the low end grunt of a diesel. Throttling out of the clutch will burn the clutch disc and glaze and heat crack the flywheel.
For 2-strokes thats not entirely True. They make most power higher up and its basically 'drive em like you stole em'. Lugging is exceptionally bad for these engines.
@@Wayoutthere this is also my understanding. Drive it like you stole it. It’s Better for the engine and makes it fun to drive
Check out the Bus Grease Monkey channel. Your bus is the kind that Scott is an expert at; they also work on newer buses mostly with Detroit Diesel engines. Good luck
Wow Ross, I tremendously enjoyed your video. Great hobby. A '59 model myself and a transit busdriver, I have three more years till retirement. Since 1990 our entire fleet has automatic transmissions, thank heavens for that 😁
Thanks, everybody for the comments. I've been doing some things wrong and appreciate the input. I shouldn't be keeping it on the governor as much as I was and I was wrong about the air suspension. It is manual inflation (changed from factory self leveling) she wasn't aired up much at all. I'm in the process of making a part two to this video. I've had a lot more practice with shifting and have figured out the bus a lot more. I had a lot of misconceptions rooted out by all of your input. I'll explain in more detail in part two. Thank you
What is you name brother congratulechion
I rode one of these with Greyhound in 1967 from Phoenix to Los Angeles back when all but the last 100 miles was on a two lane road. I'm a bus nut so bus travel left great memories both in the city and long haul.
Not a fan of buses that have been converted to RVs but glad this bus has survived.
6.71's are still relatively common since a number of these older buses as well as semi trucks have survived. It's my favorite diesel engine.
Can't beat the sound of the old 6-71. Wish it had a working jake brake!
@@RossTheBuilder 6-71's sing beautiful music. I remember the first time I rode a city bus when I was about 5 and been hooked on them ever since.
The inline series 6-71 was the flagship product of the Detroit Diesel division of General motors introduced in 1938, the v-type would be introduced in 1957. There was even a pancake variant, known as the 6L71, and 6n71, for use on horizontal underfloor-mount vehicles such as larger crown and gillig school buses. There's also the gray marine 6-71, The General motors 6046 twin pack. Used in such vehicles as the Achilles m10 tank destroyer. LCI, the quad 6051 71 series.
WOW...I grew up riding these and always why the driver would rev the motor when shifting/I learned quite a bit from you sir...keep the videos coming
You should clutch in > go to neutral > clutch out > rev it to match the gears > clutch in > put it in gear > clutch out. The skill is in the speed of this process and also being able to rev to correct RPM to not grind the gears. I have never driven old american bus but we had gearboxes like this in Europe also :D
Great video. I like the GMC scenic cruiser. Same transmission 4 speed double clutch. Your coach is great I wish I could ride with you once. Young person awesome.
Ross, Nice job driving. Your grandpa would be proud.
Thank you
@busgreasemonkey should be your new best friend.
Thanks for the video. 30 min to air up sounds long. You may have an air leak. I am not a bus guy but I follow Scott and his gang at Bus Grease Monkey. I highly recommend his chan. He specializes in old buses.
Like others have said BUS GREASEMONKEY is very good place to get advice and work done
No need to double-clutch on the upshift, as you've just proved.
She's a beast.
I'd love to see her on a wide road, going full blast.
You’re overrevving on your downshifts. Listen to the highest rpm and the rpm where the downshift actually engages. They are too far apart. Just a bit of advice
As for the upshift double clutch grinding. Dont put the clutch all the way in, it has a brake and will put everything way out of sync. Try clutch in 3/4’s shift to neutral clutch out then clutch in 3/4’s again and upshift. That should smooth it out.
Also look into floating gears like in a semi. You only need the clutch from a dead stop to get moving, then at the correct rpm the stick can fall into the next up gear without clutching
Cool I’ll give all this a try thank you
@CattleRustler - PD4104s like this one do NOT have a clutch brake, never have, never will. Transmission/clutch assembly is not designed for one.
@@RustySax1949 Yep. Upon further review, this does not have a clutch brake
I had a 5303 (transit bus) with the same trans. I wouldn't rev it between upshifts, just wind it out, push clutch, pull to neutral, let clutch out, then immediately push back in, and pull it into the next gear before the engine wound down. It would slightly grind as the gears slowed down, but never had an issue. I also used the brakes as usual, just HAD to make sure to put it into first before coming to a complete stop. The clutch, when cold, would drag the input shaft of the trans and keep it spinning even with the clutch in. The brakes are massive, don't be scared to use them.
I was taught to never touch the clutch when shifting. Wind up untill it tops out, lightly pull the shifter out of first and ease right into second as the rpm's drop. Same with downshifting, let up putting pressure on the shifter and when the rpm's are right it will drop into neutral as you rev it moving it on into the next lower gear as they will match up. Then let off the accelerator. Much simpler.
@@davidg.1623 good info. Thank you
Your doing really good in my opinion. I drove one of these for four years on regular passenger run . You will learn at your own schedule so it takes time. Keep driving and you will be fine. You might want to look for air leaks . Best Wishes.
I remember when these buses were everywhere on interstate highways in the New York Tri-state Area. What a great vehicle to own. 👍
*Thanks for taking us on a ride and explaining the nuances of operating that awesome old beast!* I'll join the chorus of folks praising a young fella for learning how to handle a historic vehicle like that! Can't imagine there are many of this one's vintage in such good running condition. *Trip down memory lane for me: * Back around 1970-73, during summer break I used to spend weekends with my grandparents. Dad would drop me off on Thurs. night, and the next morning Grandma and I would take one of these GMC buses (tho' probably not this exact model) downtown to do her shopping. We'd sit up front in the seats that ran parallel to the aisle, so I could watch the driver. Even as a little kid, I was impressed at how much *work* the driver had to do to operate that bus! ..... (Well, for some reason, the fare box always intrigued me, too.) Later, when I was in college, I rode later-model GMC buses back and forth to campus every day. But every once in a while the regular bus must've been out of commission or something because one of those old 1960s buses would show up.
Thank you for the kind words. These busses are awesome and have so much history to them
Where’s iiids this at
Double clutching time.I learned at ups in 78. Got to watch your tach.Nice old bus.You’re doing good!You have your Grands father spirit of driving.After a while ,you’ll won’t use the clutch .
Very cool bus and impressive knowledge on how to operate it and drive a non-synchronized manual. Not too many guys (especially as young as you are) have that kind of knowledge. Looking forward to more posts!
Hi mate , I’m in London uk 🇬🇧 and I often drive some old lorry units and exactly the same double clutch . I’m a huge fan of the American old buses and this video was so entertaining. Also nice to see a young man like yourself express an interest in what is amazing history . Thanks again
I drove these very buses in 1974. The transit system in Denver I worked for, condemned a private bus company that had several of these in their fleet. They had the two speed rear axles with a button on the shift lever. We ran them on the old company's bus routes. I used to double clutch the crap out of them. The District got rid of them as soon as new buses were delivered.
not jourñy
@@sharonbraselton4302 ??? Please explain.
Awesome! I had a 1960 Rambler that wasn't synced into first gear so I did some double clutching with that one.
Nice bus...... Adams family theme song will help you when double clutching........
Be safe
Double clutching is a great way to start learning to shift these old transmissions. Once you get the hang of it you could actually do all the shifting without any clutch at all
Heh. Los Angeles Unified School District used to have a lot of Crown and Gillig school buses with a 6-71 mounted pancake-style in the middle, under the floor back in the day. Not hearing that sound anymore where I am is torture to me!
Oh, and Bus Grease Monkey shall be your new best friend BTW. You will not regret it one bit
Good view of the visor!!
Nice to see a young man with an old bus! Shifting will get easier with more driving. I recommend you fix that seat suspension, driving is so much easier if the seat doesn't try to throw you off all the time. Air pressure should be up in few minutes, not 30, you either have a huge leak or worn compressor.
jaakko is watching, i think he was going by those four leveling gauges
Good job with this video, cool to see a young guy interested in these old school technology machinery.
When you get the speed of the transmission gear to match the speed of the engine output gear, You don't need to use the clutch at all. I had a failed clutch linkage one time and I left Leominster, Ma, and drove about 70 miles to the New York State Line on the Massachusetts Turnpike. I actually had to shut the engine off at the toll booths, and then restart while it was in gear after paying toll. I wouldn't recommend it but there may come a time when you don't have a way to clutch and It beats the crap out of sitting along the road for hours. You have to plan your stops way in advance and run up and down all the gears. With that screamin' 671 there is enough rpm differential to drop 2 gears per shift on a 10 speed, IF do it perfectly, but it's very do-able! Love the bus. Check relentlessly for a vendor to replace those windows. There are always lots of start up small businesses that make amazing products, and the internet is a great way of finding a place! Best of luck and keep the old girl running. Love to see more vids soon.
Imagine the history that thing has seen or even been a part of.
The best advice ever, from an old-timer Bus Operator: Go Slow, and use your Mirrors.
Grew up on a farm in the 60's and learned to drive on a manual. Non syncro gearboxes are no problem, and for the size, at 16 was operating a twin screw grain truck so this bus would be a piece of cake to operate. Did you ever think of airing the thing up with a aux compressor to start up. Simply run a air line to the air tank and use a compressor to fill the tank. Remember the air compressor on that diesel is rather small.
Great idea
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To assist in your gaining dexterity in double-clutching; learn to trust your ears and that DD!
In upshifting learn to shift as motor revs up not when you reach redline in any gear. There exists shift points within each gear range that once leaned make for seamless shifting! Imagine operators of that era could smoothly engage clutch and make shifts without moving passengers forward or backwards given the fluidity of their clutch and stick work!
Practice employing rhythmic timing and learn the shift points/ range via reading your tach!
Otherwise enjoy this essential classic! Any driver of that era will remember how taut those GMC transmissions were especially on both their 4107/4108 Buffalos. You needed to be spot on or you grinded gears or had to slow/stop and start again from 1st!
Engine doesn't need rapped completely out, and such high RPMs aren't needed to grab another gear. You'll catch on to it eventually. After awhile you'll be able to float the gears without even using the clutch.
You're grandfather is damn proud of you dude! Awesome!
A 1959 4104 was the first coach I had driven on the road in the mid ‘70’s, when I started my mechanical apprenticeship. Seeing this brings back some good old memories!
I'm looking forward to seeing this video. I drove busses long haul for 43 years for a very large company. I've been in just about every province and state every where. I rarely double clutched and my shifts are always silky smooth with two fingers on the stick. I partial clutch. If you'd like to see how you partial clutch watch my trucking video shifting a 13 speed Peterbilt 379. See Stern Drive with Doug Stern and you too can shift like a pro as well. Let me know how it goes. Safe travels!
that journy budß
Double-clutching is great fun, once you've got the hang of it.
She sounds sweet!
Others have stated in this thread...get on board with Scott Crosby, Bus Grease Monkey. He'll save your life!
just lightly hold the throttle as you shift slowly and let it suck the gear in. you will get it. old transmissions are fun to learn to shift fast. you will notice a half way point between neutral and fully into a gear, that half way point is the point you pause .
I'm not convinced he needs to rev it to redline for every downshift either, it's all about rev matching, so just rev slightly past where you need it, then it slots into gear as the engine speed decreases into the right range for the gear
you are right. its all about rev matching, And that is the idea behind what i say when i mention keepign your foot on the throttle. dont fully lift off the throttle because it causes the engine rpm to drop too low and now the gears may not wanna match up right. and the point and rpm will depend on what gear your in. its quite fun to learn your machines sweet spots.
I’ve ridden many a mile on both Greyhound and Trailways 4104s in the 50s and 60s.
I learned to drive on unsynchronized manual transmission. That bus is really a historical gem.
soo wère 1980 spssd demm card
Wow I'm tired just watching a Thumbs Up 👍to all the bus drivers that had to be a hell of a hard job back than and even now.
That Detroit diesel is music to my ears. I once rode greyhound from Atlanta to Flagstaff Az and back. It was awesome
For the better parts of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s...I converted a 4104 for a gospel band traveling all over the midwest and south through all of Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala. There is probably enough of a cult following that there's a bus nut more than willing to give you advice. We traveled in every state in Mexico. One thing (although this is old info) the 4104 was manufactured in Mexico so in the time frame I'm referring to there was no problem finding parts. I'd buy a couple of air bladders as one or more may be leaking. Don't worry as some have said shifting that old dinosaur will be second nature to you in about a month. The grease monkey guy is probably a good contact, he's probably a second generation, my mechanic used him. Regarding lugging I used the rearview mirror as my guide...increased smoke means you're lugging, usually noticeable before the gauges tell you. We used a higher grade of diesel back in the day. Today probably the fuel is better. Good luck young man. Btw they go like hell well beyond 80 the last mark on the gauge. And, DON"T let it overheat!
On most manual semi-s usually you do not need to double-clutch just "feather" the accelerator to get it out of a gear or get it into next...of course sometimes you need it a bit...
The technique for shifting is to hold it at the gate with light pressure "3 finger" and when the rev matches then it will go in...
Yes dead throttle starts also that's the 671 Detroit we had them in the crown buses tell the 90's
Dude I totally recognize the area you were driving around in. Westborough/Southborough... I live close by.
One BIG mistake with Double Clutching is pushing the Pedal too far down . Advice from a Retired Trucker .
Push it down into the " Take-Up " Zone , so that it is Slippy and " Feel " your way between gears . No force needed , you will feel it coming good .
After you get used to it you may even Stop using the clutch and " Float " the gears . That will happen once you Know the Ratios .
If there is no Tachometer , the Speedo tells you what gear you should be in . There may even be Marks on the Dial to help .
Lovely Old Bus .
Its not like floating like they say.. idk mine was destined for the junkyard so i didnt really care but i guess it was like driving a eaton fuller if u just used 4 of the 13 or 18 gears. U can race it, essentially just use the gas pedal as the clutch after take off. Be ready to shift, race, when the engine speed matches the trans output it will go into gear. And no theres not a clutch brake. That bus would probably be before the time of a clutch brake, if it has jakes i would not use them to learn any of this. In my mind that would only make it more difficult. It will also start in second quite easily. Detroits love to eat so its fine. Something tells me its gonna need a bit of a overhaul either way. The mess of accessories in those transverse applications might look bad but its rather easy.
Tip. Engine speed vs Road speed is road of thumb for shifting.
I just found the video and thank you for sharing this. As someone who has been blind all my life, I have always enjoyed riding in buses with manual transmission, but driving one seems to be another thing altogether. This video shows me that and explains a few things I have heard over the years, when writing in Coaches with manual transmission in Canada. for example: revving the bus high in order for it to grab a gear when shifting down and I always thought that the bus had done it on its own, whether it was standard or automatic. the other thing for me is the synchronized shifting, versus not synchronized. What exactly does that mean, as I've never thought to ask or had it explained to me properly? Again, thanks for sharing.
Loved the sounds of the Detroit Diesels..
Use your tach when shifting helps a lot. Great coach that and Scenic Cruiser.
I drive trucks and school buses for a living...way cool!
The brakes are there to use . Do be afraid to use them ,
Powered by General Motors,(6-71) that's a engine with 6 cylinder's in line bore at (71) cubic inches per cylinder ,city greyhounds for interstate use ,used a (8v-71) again it's 71 cubic inches with a 8 cylinder Vee block
The air bags are bad? A low-rider bus? A diesel engine doesn't rev very high. For upshifting, you need to double-clutch until you've learned the relationship between engine speed and road speed, then you only use the clutch for starting and stopping. When climbing up a hill, downshifting is fun. You keep the pedal floored, push in the clutch and by the time you are shifting into the next lower gear, the engine rpms should match the speed for that lower gear.
First of all your not an idiot a lucky young man wish I had the time to spend with you driving it that's what I learned on in 1976 I got over 1,000,000 miles with them GMC and MCI coaches I could show you some cool tricks at shifting them really smooth people would think your driving an automatic ,I mess the older busses wish I had a bought one just for historical purposes
There is a place in California that makes nice new windows with screens for these. Curious how much that you had to give for it. Every one of them I find is on one coast or the other, or way up north. I'm in Texas.
I would love to show you how to drive this bus properly sir. You have the concept but you could use a refresher.
You seem to be doing fine playing/Slipping the clutch while moving slowly . Just don’t overdo it because you can burn the clutch. Whenever possible keep it fully engaged when you want to move and disengaged while stationary that way you lessen the wear on the parts. Remember that it is not a baby buggy like most cars. Keep plenty of space ahead and don’t go too fast. Learn about braking and using compression to keep speed down and conserving brakes and air pressure on long or steep grades. Know where You are going and that You will have no problems negotiating narrow roads and parked cars. Don’t go down a road that You cannot back out of. Learn to use the mirrors to back up and always be careful for inattentive driver’s who are not watching for Your warning and turn signals. Many drivers drive too fast and are not looking or thinking ahead. Many lack professional driving skills but believe that speeding is skill. There will be time when You must overtake and pass slower vehicles of people who bunch up and may be daydreaming but always watch out for those who will pull out in front of You without being able to accelerate properly to match the speed of the faster traffic traffic they are merging into. Too many people are selfish drivers and inconsiderate of others. They may pull into you’re safety zone and brake suddenly because they are inconsiderate. Try to avoid excessive braking by anticipating the need for it and slowing or backing off on the throttle. Drivers of heavy trucks look ahead and slow when seeing red lights or green ones that may be getting ready to go yellow then red by slowing and not having to stop completely momentum can help you gain speed more quickly whereas stopping completely makes it harder to get with the flow of traffic.Make sure You are insured for friends riding along and no boozer’s . Even non driving ones can be problems.
Talking about a rare motor, then rev the shit out of it, (your statement) won't be running long with rods thru the block. Have someone who knows properly teach you about the 2 cycle Detroit and the 4 speed. It becomes a technique and double clutching is to allow the motor to slow down to match the rotation of the motor to the trans. Floating the gears (no clutch) also works once taught how to do it. Over revving will just wear out the motor. I spent many years driving a Detroit and 5 speed, and the harder you try to man handle the motor/ transmission the more difficult it will be to properly operate, and eventually break parts. Never touch the brakes? I don't get that either, overusing the brakes, yes that's bad, but saying you don't want to use them is dangerous. Brakes properly used along with engine braking in the proper gear should stop you every time safely.
Woah man. “Rev the shit out of it” =exaggeration. “Speed up the input shaft” is what I meant. Also, it’s a 2 stroke man rpm’s ain’t bad for it. Is there anything wrong with trying to understand the limits of my engine braking for downward grades for example? Obviously I would use the brakes in an emergency and stopping when I need to. And, I don’t have anybody to teach me the ins and outs of 2 stroke diesels and turns out the 6-71 isn’t that rare. If you’ve got so much experience drop some advice
@@RossTheBuilder you were over revving it if you listen to the video. Double clutching is a learned technique. You should try to find a place where you can practice, where you can concentrate on your techniques and don't have to worry about everyone else on the road. It takes time, I spent years teaching guys to drive a 2 stroke 5 speed, some of whom never drove a stick before. Slowdown is my biggest advice to you. You have the general idea, but practice and control of the throttle is needed. As far as braking is concerned, proper use with the right gear for engine braking will stop you safely. The truck I drove weighed in excess of 48,000 lbs. Without knowing more, and stating it takes 30 mins or whatever to air up the bus, i m curious if you have compressor issues and that's another reason you don't like the brakes? Just a question.
It's not that I don't like the brakes the brakes work just fine. My mindset is that it's a platform I'm unfamiliar with and it's my first big vehicle operation with the only advice thing's I've found on the internet. The last thing I want to do is have the brakes go out. And, if they should go out or start to fade, I know my limits without a JAKE-Brake. I'm certainly in no rush when driving lol
She’s beautiful. Take good care of her.
I drove Semi 10 13 speeds 5 speed Mack & 12 speed Mack’s I know double clutching and Throttle shifting double clutching is not needed on most Fuller Road ranger gear boxes
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Nice bus man! I’m not certain because there could be combo systems out there…but I’m pretty sure your air suspension is no longer self leveling, those black knobs under the gauges are manual valves for each corner. Push or pull to add or release air. Again not certain but pretty sure haha. Bus did look very low when you drove away, typical bag pressure should be nearer to 80lbs than 40 when you’re on the road in my experience.
As for shifting, with my 6-71 and 4-speed I find double clutching every shift up or down is faster and smoother than the “patient” way. You are doing good going up to the governor every time before shifting, thats the only way these old two stroke diesels will stay cool. Don’t be afraid of rpms!
Yep, I've been told RPMs are your friend on the 2-stroke diesel. I think you may be right the rear end looks pretty dang low. I was told by one of my grandpa's friends (an expert diesel mechanic who drove with him to truck shows) she was self-leveling. You're right the black knobs are to add and remove air manually but it's my understanding that is just an option and she will eventually level out...which I've found to be true
@@RossTheBuilder how much air is in your bags when you're driving. I just rewatched and man o man you're bouncing around a lot...unless those roads are way worse than they look!!
6-71 Detroit Diesel. probably V671 V configuration, 6 Cylinders, 71 Cubic inches per cylinder,
A little more practice and you may have the shifting right. Don’t redline the motor between downshifts. Since the gearbox with the motor.
"Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should!" Sorry, I just had too say it. Anyways, great video.
Former Greyhpund Driver here. You will see a color code on your speedometer. You shift at each change of color at max rev. Should be at 20 to 2nd, 30 to 3rd, and 50 to 4th. Just double clutch counting one one thousand, two one thousand. Down shifts are at same speeds down shifting with max RPM with throtle on the double clutch. Bye the way get rid of the air seat. You don't need it.
W bus content look forward to more. ✅
Thank you Denz4🤞
Hit up Bus Grease Monkey for any repair/maintenance/advice/restoration needs. Scott is great!
Better off float shifting, your left leg and transmission will thank you. Best thing to do is, shift as fast as you can, and listen to the transmission. If you need to slow down on the shifts, slow down accordingly. Then that will be your rhythm. I noticed that no two trucks ever shift the same. Even if it is the same year, make and model. Always have to learn how to shift each truck, as it's required. When going into gear, if you get stuck halfway, just goose the throttle, while maintaining pressure on the shifter. When down shifting, rev it in neutral consistently, while trying to catch the gear. If you are going too fast for the gear, you might need to keep the revs high at a consistent rpm. Then it'll pop in. Driving stick is like dancing with a lady: start with the basic fundamentals, but then let her body and rhythm guide you the rest of the way.
Hi Ross, welcome to the land of 4104 ownership. My name is Jon and I am tracking down all the surviving PD 4104's left in the world. What's your coach's serial number for the survivor's list?
If you do Facebook, we have a GM PD 4104 page. We have sources for parts among our members and a few other places.
We have a 1957 at home.
Hey Jon, let me get back to you on that. I believe this coach is already on the survivors list. I've posted a few times on that GM PD 4104 page and Vintage Bus Mechanics about it. Just incase, I'll get back to you on the serial number.
She's coach NO. 3901
i know this is an old vid n ya probably got the timing down,but the easiest way. to get shifting smoothly is only push the clutch down about 2 inches when double clutching and shift immediately.the pause in neutral is very breif.your to slow gettin into the next gear .shift b4 the engine hits the governor.stay away from sliding gears till your timing is perfect,the short clutch pedal action will get that there but done incorrectly the damage will likely be permanent.
Nice job Ross. I learned on a 1964 GMC 4106 which was the next model after the 4104. If you double clutch it will shift faster. Where in the country are you?
Yea I'm gonna try messing around with some different shifting techniques mentioned on this comment section. US.
@@RossTheBuilder I’m in Mass where are you?
Hi Ross, i had to post.
This showed up on my feed.
You are doing a good job of keeping me engaged.
Lorenzo drove the older GM4512 in...."the Bronx Tale."
You have a good back window. Take care of it. They are getting really hard to find! Sounds good! We have a 1960 4104, 1947 3751 and a 1978 MC8.
WOW! Someone needs to teach you how to drive that poor bus before you put all those internal parts on the ground. Learn to float gears and time your shifts. You should never exceed 3,000 rpms. Revving the engine with the clutch in does nothing, if you want to bring the gears speed up to match the rpms, rev the engine with the clutch up! usually 1,000 rpms for each gear you plan the shift to. If your dropping one gear, rev 1,000 rpms if you're dropping two gears, shift to neutral clutch up rev 2,000 rpms ease it into gear. I'm amazed you haven't scatered that Detroit.
Yes I talk about how the input shaft only spins with the clutch out and do that in the video. As other people have mentioned I shouldn’t have been reviving it that high on shifts.
Love that BUS!!
But you're revving so high my friend!!
Remember it's a diesel engine!! Diesel engine runs at low rpm's so 1500 is the right rpm for you to shift!
Good luck
Diesel indeed but a 2-stroke diesel. They absolutely love RPM. It’s really bad to lug a 2 stroke detroit in low rpm’s. Makes it fun to drive!
@Kim Ro Woon - When he hit's the governor in 1st gear, the engine's only turning 2100 rpm - it just sounds so much faster because it's a two-stroke design. 1500 is ok for a four-stroke engine, but not these Detroits.
Man those roads are rough
Try shifting WITHOUT the clutch, it’s usually a lot easier on those old transmissions. Also, make certain you have enough oil in the transmission, and that the oil is CLEAN. No need to redline on shifts, either, up or down. You can upshift just after the engine starts to pull, which on the old Jimmies is usually around 1600. Downshift when it starts to lug. Practice will bring perfection!
I was thinking the same. For me, all of the trucks i drove with unssync i neber use the clutch...
Yea he's all over the road with that transmission, very unnatural. Don't need the clutch...
You don't need a CDL because your not making any money also you can get glass for it.
Any glass shop can effortlessly cut those glasses to fit no sweet ‼️.
20 years ago I drove one for my brother's company
Awesome bus. I’m not sure if this applies to buses but I was told not to downshift when slowing down in a manual. Reason being is that using the drivetrain to slow down the vehicle is pretty hard on the transmission and clutch. Brakes are cheap and easy to replace. Would love to drive one of these one day.
You have been told very wrong things. During engine braking, you have exactly the same forces as when you're accelerating, just in the opposite direction. There is absolutely no harm in engine braking.
In cars and on bikes, you don't need to conciously engine brake - just keep it in gear, downshift when you hit 1500ish RPM. All the rest of the deceleration you need, you do with your brakes. Usually you don't shift down to first if you're coming to a stop.
The exception is when you go down grades. In this case, you shift down to whatever gear you need to not increase your speed (but also not go too slow). Only when you run out of engine braking, you start working the brakes. It is completely normal to have your engine screaming at 75% of redline when going down a grade. This is even more important on cars with an automatic transmission! Those low/1/2/3 settings are there for a reason. In D, an automatic pretty much does not have any engine braking, you have to shift down on a down grade to avoid cooking your brakes and losing brake power.
Your granddad was a Greyhound driver with a PhD.?
This guy should NEVER drive that bus!!
Great video. And great demo of the double clutch. You are an authentic person.
You need to practice floating the gears, it will be far easier to drive.
Take it to the Bus Grease Monkey for routine maintenance.
thats awesome its as old as when buddy holly and ritchie valens and the big bopper sadly died, also i find it funny you keep saying rev the shit out of it lol
i have one 4104 in mexico and a love it was my first bus ¡
30 min to air up means you have some really bad air leaks. Get in touch with the Bus Grease Monkey he has a channel here on youtube, he is a guru on those classic buses.