To be fair, loving Sonic often means you can't love everything about Sonic. All the different Sonics can vary with the medium and tone. Just bring up Adventures of Sonic vs. Sonic SatAM vs. Sonic Underground. Or 3D vs. 2D.
"I'd love to do more of these" Look I'm not telling you how to do your job or anything, I'm just saying you have the ability to do so and that you should do it. Do it. Do it. (do it)
PLEASE talk about Mr. Game & Watch! There's so much interesting technique in adapting a character who literally can't have in-betweens into a 60fps fighting game!
Well, it really isn't *that* different. Only now instead of trying to make a set of pictures that simulate motion when played fast enough, you're trying to make a set of pictures that... don't do that. Which is almost harder when you're still trying to make it look and feel good.
My biggest nitpick with Mario's animation throughout the Smash Bros. series is that he basically never smiles. It's just so weird to see him constantly scowling. Fortunately, it looks like he'll lighten up a bit in Ultimate.
Suspicious Flaming Pyro True Even in his new character render, though he doesn't look as pissed off as in Smash 4, still shows he still has that look of determination and a bit a seriousness
This seems like the sort of thing Dan would enthusiastically agree to do, finish 3 or 4 episodes, then put it on hold indefinitely in favour of a different massive project that he enthusiastically agrees to do.
"Video game animation has to do more than simply look good. Truly successful game animation looks good while functionally serving the needs of the game." Can't think of a better job description post than that Dan! Nice work on this video! Got me hyped for Smash!
I'd like to see a comparison between Ryu's animations in Smash and Street Fighter. It'd be interesting to see what tweaks had to be made to make him feel more "smashy".
I think Mario's Wind-up animation being only like 1 frame is my new favorite thing, because It's so short of a wind-up and its not even a full wind-up but it still qualifies as the necessary wind-up, and that's just... beautiful.
I'd like to see you do Shulk or Cloud. Those guys are from RPGs, so their animation had very different needs in the first place, having all the time they wanted to build up effects and anticipation. It'd be cool to see how and where they chose to maintain references to those characters.
For the same reason I want him to do a Pokemon. In addition, each Pokemon character has to represent a species, not an individual, which means you need to invent a personality.
Definetively shulk, there are so much more references to his game plus the delay of most of his moves' startup is a nice way o translating xenoblade's gameplay (seriously cloud has NOTHING besides his specials and a couple moves)
I would just like to point out that since Xenoblade is a full real-time RPG and not a turn-based one, so the animation needs are quite different to those in many other RPGs. Oh, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 makes the needs even more unusual, because you can cancel out of most animations directly in to a special at any time (the main exceptions are that it won't work if you can't use a special at all (either due to lack of charge or due to your Blade being too far away, a common occurrence in certain fights because Stench makes your Blade try to stand further away from you because you literally stink at that point) and that you can't cancel out of specific parts of a couple of Arts because you're mid-air for part of the animation) and on top of that you can cancel straight from the final hit of any Art into the startup for any other Art on the same weapon or into a Blade Switch, which means that you can enter most animations from several different paths (and can even get into the animation for some moves from that move's own animation, thanks to effects that recharge Arts while you're in the middle of using an Art (for example, several Arts and Mythra all have a critical recharge effect, which means that while using those Arts or when wielding the Aegis with Mythra getting a critical hit will recharge the currently used Art by the percentage of the effect (all of them max out at 100% charge restored if you get a crit)) and things like Finch's passive, Did I Do That?, which gives her Driver a chance of not actually consuming the charge on any move when you use it (and this one can even let you use the IV special (which puts your whole party in complete invincibility while it is being used) without using it up, letting you use it again immediately)). Finally, text wall.
How about an episode looking at how Kirby translates the special moves of every other character to a character with almost no limbs to pose with? How did they manage to still make the moves readable and sell the impact if they couldn't rely on a readable silhouette to do the bulk of the job?
I always thought the Smash 64 characters didn't capture the characters quite as well as those in later games, and your analysis of Mario illustrates that well. But I think the biggest offender is DK. His animations are nice and meaty, but the only ones that called back to any DK games were his ground slap down special from DKC and forward air from DK64. He didn't even get his roll - his only attack in the DKC games! - until Smash 4. You could stick those animations onto basically any big heavy character and hardly tell the difference. Much like Mario was designed to be the average character, it seems like DK was designed first to fill the heavy archetype and second to be DK. But then you jump to Smash 4 and look at Mega Man, who captures the character better than any official attempt by Capcom ever has. His look and animations are a perfect translation of his 8-bit sprite, his facial animations really make him feel properly robotic, and all his attacks are directly pulled from his various attacks throughout the series. Or look at K. Rool in Smash Ultimate, whose animations manage to capture the goofy insanity of his original appearances and make direct callbacks to those appearances, but also rejuvenate him to be more ferocious than ever.
In a similar vein, I've always felt that Ganondorf suffered mightily from being a clone of Captain Falcon in Melee, and have similar complaints. Why is Ganondorf, known as a sorcerer, a heavy brawler? Where are the projectile attacks? That's how he fights you in Ocarina of Time! I remember hoping for a more faithful rework with Brawl, and being disappointed that there wasn't one.
How did I only *just* find out about this channel? I loved this type of analysis stuff Dan has done in the past, so I think it’s great that there’s now a whole channel for this!
This are the characters that I'd love (or tolerate) to see analyzed: Link Cloud Kirby (particularly his copy abilities) The Fire Emblem crew (particularly how they handle the differences between Echo Fighters) The Pokémon crew Mr. Game & Watch Wario Duck Hunt I guess we have enough material here for a long time. lol
I especially like your suggestion of Kirby's copy abilities. I see a lot of people asking for their character to be examined because they want to understand how they successfully transitioned into a fighting game; but with Kirby you take that to the next level! How do you transition - not a character - but an ACTION to an entirely different character who also happens to have such a simple body type? I'd also really like the suggestion of Fire Embleminos, because I'm also interested in learning how to visually differentiate Echo Fighters without having to make COMPLETELY new and different animations and move-set? Seems like figuring that out would be super useful for game developers that don't have the resources to spend on making a ton of different assets.
I can't believe there hasn't been more smash bros character animation videos, especially for some of the DLC. I feel like Kazuya, Sephiroth and Bayonetta would make INCREDIBLE New Frame Plus episodes. The animation for these characters specifically does such a good job of staying true to the source material. And for me, to learn the 'how' and 'why' that's the case is always so interesting!
Analyzing Luigi and Doctor Mario and how they do or don't depart from mario's animation could be pretty interesting. Luigi is pretty obviously different, but he started out as a Mario clone and has built up his own personality and play style over the years. In fact, comparing any clone character could be interesting if there's stuff there to analyze. Fox vs. Falco vs. Wolf, Link vs. Toon Link, Pikachu vs. Pichu, Marth vs. Lucina vs. Roy, Ness vs. Lucas, all come to mind. They aren't all perfect clones, but they are at least comparable.
Thirded! This is a fantastic topic, and not only can you give examples of how it's done right, but also compare and contrast those differences and how they convey character.
I'd love to see Villager or Wii Fit Trainer, getting the feeling of characters who don't fight into a fighting game is an interesting task and I'd love to see your breakdown of how they did it. I'd also love to see a speculative video, similar to how you framed Mario here, a discussion of what you'd need to consider to translate a character who isn't in smash, but would have some unique traits that would make them difficult aswell. Personally I'm thinking something like Slime from Dragon Quest, Arle from Madou Monogatari and Puyo Puyo, Isaac from Golden Sun or a first person character like The Doom Slayer from Doom or Master Chief from Not Doom; characters who are popular picks (arle morseo in Japan than the west) but whom are fairly synonymous with a different camera angle (front facing for Slime, 2/3s for Isaac, first person for the shooters or rarely even on screen for Arle). I know Falcon and Ness did this too for not really on the screen, and Little Mac from his own camera angle, but I feel the others present new challenges of getting to read from the side, while maintaining the feel of the character.
Loved your new channel Dan, you're still inspiring me to become better at animation. But I can't seem to stop wanting to cry when I hear you, I think you know what I mean. Wish you all the best !
This is amazing. As someone that has entered training mode and watched the characters' animations at 1/4 speed just to marvel at the techniques used in them, this video is just lovely. You touch on everything that makes the characters move responsively and with personality. If I were to suggest a character, it would be Little Mac. You talk about how characters moves are sped up to be responsive and he comes to mind. His moves are lightning fast, with a jab that comes out in 1 frame even. Despite this quickness, his attacks land with satisfying, brutal impact. Would be interesting to see you talk about how it is the animators did this.
Very nice looking back on this now that Ultimate is well out, and the amount of care in all fronts for each character, especially the animation, is just great to simply admire. Thanks for giving us all some more insight into it 👍
I'd like to hear your thoughts on Cloud in particular, since they were translating a character from a turn-based game who really didn't have all that much to draw from in terms of typical fighting game moves, given most of the variation in FF7 comes from materia and summons and also had to differentiate him from other sword wielding characters. Great video Dan, glad to have this kind of content make a return!
Granted as a semi competitive player I would say Mario's jump is pretty good. His ariel drift and the low lag he has after throwing out an ariel move makes him an ariel threat so in that way you could say his jump is special.
It seems like the Mii fighter could serve as the new baseline, vanilla fighter if Nintendo wanted to make Smash!Mario more uniquely Mario. And that would be kinda neat; giving him (and perhaps other Mario characters) a Ground Pound move would fit him well. Though it _would_ probably require not only reworking Mario but also tweaking most other characters to make sure ground-pounders have a place in the game's complicated rock/paper/scissors balance diagram...
mario not having a ground pound always felt like a missed opportunity to me. it wouldn't really require much rebalancing considering that a ton of characters already have something like a ground pound in their moveset (toon link, zero suit samus, greninja)
Important thing about fighting game animation is that animation becomes a crucial part of game design. Stuff like frame data means that changing duration of animation by a couple frames can drastically change balance in high level play.
I would add one more detail to the functionality musts of the Smash Bros. animation: they must match the hitboxes. I think believe that's why most of the attacks in Smash 4 have colorful flairs at the ends of the attack animations: to convey the hitbox. As for which character I'd love to see an analysis of next, that's a tricky one. Hmm, I think I got it. I would like to see the character with the most technically complex animations analyzed. That way I can get an understanding of all the work and effort, as well as the tools and techniques, like squash & stretch, used in video game animation.
Got here from a Mark Brown tweet and by the end of the video it honestly felt like I could have continued watching you talk about this for so much longer, great content, honestly.
Definitely want to see more Smash stuff on this channel since it's one of my favourite series, and there's so much to talk about in terms of animations, but another thing that I'd really like to see now would be a video on the animations in the 3D Mario games, and how they make the movement feel so satisfying (Sunshine, Odyssey and 64 in particular).
Your comment about Mario probably being different if he was added now is something that bothers me about many of the "Gen 1"-Fighters. It's obvious that they are well established and that Sakurai does not want to change the basic formula of the characters. But back then many concessions had to be made while executions of newer characters adhere to their respective uniqueness and gimmicks almost to a fault. Look how much care they put into all of Mega Mans moves and attacks - so much so that he even has one tilt-attack less than other fighters. Imagine how Samus could look and play if she was added as a new character today. There is absolutely no reason to why she can only fire one charged shot in Smash while you just shoot and desintegrate everything around you in her original games. Her moveset is pretty lackluster which is a shame because I love her as a character. I could go on about other characters as well but in essence I wished that Sakurai and his team would have taken the time and care to overhaul some of the old veterans in a way that they feel more up-to-date while similarly more true to their original form. But whelp... can't have everything, can you?
I think Samus got out a lot better than most of the other Gen 1 fighters. At least she has a recognizable moveset. Compare her to Donkey Kong, who is generic as hell.
Even the Gen I fighters have several unique elements. Like Kirby's absorbing ability, Yoshi's lack of a recovery move which is compensated for by his high jump and knight armor, Link's shield and others.
Can we take a moment to appreciate Ridley's animation? Like he's just VICIOUS! The way he grabs oponents by their heads and then furiously slides them through the stage is just brutal. My personal favourite detail is how when he does his forward tilt (where he stabs the opponent with his tail) he actually grabs his tail and uses it as a spear just so he can do as much damage as possible. Or in his victory animation where he looks like he's eviscerating one of his preys he straight up grins to the camera. Yes, his size may not represent the original faithfully but damn did they nail his personality!
I'd like to see you look at the evolution of a character's animations throughout the Smash franchise. This may or may not be because I miss Bowser's old design and animations... Also: I'd love to see you take a look at and of the Project M exclusive animations, like Koopa Claw down throw and Ganondorf's dodges. (I'll never forgive them for removing my beloved anger monorail and giving him long limbs.)
mario has a very big aerial combo game and thats where he gets most of his kills, so i think he is represented great. he also is considered the jack of all trades in his games, and this translates to smash very well.
This video is fantastic and fascinating! As much of a workload as it would be, I think you could make this an entire series in itself of just covering every character, because yes we've had series like Know Your Moves, but thats more about the moves origins, compared to the specific style and animation as it is here.
Rather than focusing on a single character, I'd like to see a COMPARISON of a fast character like Cpt. Falcon, vs a slow one like Ganondorf. I'll be happy with the comparison of any fast vs slow characters, but I'd specifically like to see a comparison of those. That way we wouldn't be comparing "apples to oranges" so much. Also, how would YOU have changed them up to be mechanically similar (same move-sets) yet visually distinct. That way we'd learn how to make a game seem more diverse and varied without sinking time and money into developing new move-sets or assets. That could also be an interesting experiment with Pit and Dark Pit, who desperately need some differentiation.
I'd LOVE to see you break down Peach! It must have taken a lot of work to make Peach into a character in a fighting game, where, up until Melee, she had *never* been playable in a game outside of the US SMB2. All Peach had was floating, and they not only had fun with feminine cliches (She can pull out and hit you with a frying pan), but also *added* to her personality with ehr cheerful, gentle demeanor, and things like her butt bounce which really shows off a fun loving, playful side to Peach. I think she's a masterful example of "Show, don't tell"
Peach's best weapon in Super Mario RPG was the frying pan, and might be one of the only existing references to that game in Smash, save for the Geno costume.
This channel is incredible. I really like what you're doing here. It's very informative, interesting and you explain concepts well. I really hope it takes off and becomes something truly beautiful. I personally would like to see you cover every Smash Bros fighter but take things at your own pace. No rush. ;)
i'm kinda shocked you didn't go into any characters who's translation failed, maybe a particular demon king being a ripoff of a guy who doesn't have a moveset in his original game? just a thought. and since it's topical, you should analyze sonic's smash moveset, since you have so much practice with sonic animation now. and i fully expect you to rag on it the entire time, despite being a sonic fan.
Haha, Ganondorf is an interesting case. Being a last second character that was going to be cut unless corners were cut instead, makes the translation understandable. (I am personally really glad he made it in.) Brawl and beyond though, his new animations pull a whole lot from his own games and nails in that Ganondorf feel, which is really impressive despite still having his Melee moveset. I really look forward to seeing his new changes for Smash Ultimate in more detail.
As someone who has played too much gannondorf on for glory, I don’t want gannondorf changed to be accurate to the games. Even if they gave his moveset to Black Shadow or something, it wouldn’t be the same. I’m surprised how many people actually expected massive changes like that for Mario and Link.
Dude, do 'em all. I'll watch you analyze all 73. As a game designer who's looking to up his art skills in the near future, I needed this video and I would love more like it.
I'd say the animations are largely the same from 4 to Ultimate. The changes that makes them smoother are the transitional frames from one action to the next. From 64 to 4 they were pretty janky.
Oh my gosh, that video was delightful! Thanks, Dan! One other character I would be interested in is Kirby, specifically his copy abilities. How do you translate a character’s feel into smash, into a round pink puffball that’s already bringing its own feel into smash?
I would honestly love it if you do pit. I always found it so interesting and fascinating how each move feels and looks as meaty as it does in kid Icarus uprising. And how they translated him from a 3d game to a 2d one, and adding the jump he never had, and what they did to make pit feel like an angel and army captain, this is why I would love it if you covered pit.
Ridley! all of his attacks feel super savage, I don't know, his animations feel like everything he should be, mean looking, savage, but still somewhat indicates that he's an intelligent creature with a capacity for cruelty as intense as that sounds lol
I'd like to see you do an analysis on Bayonetta! It'd be interesting to learn how Nintendo adapted a character from an M rated game to a T rated game while still keeping everything about her movement and personality the same.
Looking at the differences between King Dedede in Brawl and Smash 4 would be cool! They really upped the personality levels on his animation. This also seems to be the case for many more characters in Ultimate. Keep up the great work and I look forward to new episodes!
My in universe theory for Mario’s hands and feet growing when attacking is the super mushroom. It doesn’t just turn him into a giant, but allows him to change the size of any part of his being at will.
One more important thing to note is that Smash usually adds its own spin to certain characters' traits, in Mario you can see it in his "upbeat determination", as you perfectly described it, becoming a bit more competitive, to better face the big fight that is the Smash series. In Melee, in particular, I think he hits the sweetspot where he looks serious but also like he's enjoying himself.
you could make an argument that Mario's deemphasis on Jumps and added emphasis on his punching and kicking, is also due to his versatility. When Mario Karts he doesn't jump higher than others in his Kart, he just races well, same with when he golfs or plays Tennis... Mario as a baseline just makes sense. Great video by the way!
You have to check out Belmont as this is the first time he has been in 3D and it is the perfect example of how important it is to have a solid silhouette
"Hundreds of beloved characters and also Pichu"
I literally choked and coughed up a french fry I was eating.
ALSO DO DEDEDE NEXT BECAUSE YES PLEASE
I laughed so hard I had to pause the video. That line broke me
That was my favorite part of the entire video.
Also, yes, Plz DEDEDE NEXT!
I love how subtly Dan slides those jokes in.
Oh this is very interesting HAHA oh this is very interesting.
It was a great line
This guy really tolerates Sonic
As a sonic main I tolerate myself
this aged well
I also main sonic it’s basically a free win every time
Exactly no one everyone loves sonic
@@oreogod3943 hi
Dan with the Pichu/Sonic smear agenda
To be fair, loving Sonic often means you can't love everything about Sonic. All the different Sonics can vary with the medium and tone. Just bring up Adventures of Sonic vs. Sonic SatAM vs. Sonic Underground. Or 3D vs. 2D.
Everyone worth talking to thinks Sonic is a wonderful character; it's is games that are the problem.
@@kindoflame
No it isn't.
That Pichu needs a burn heal really quick.
@SOnic sucks
Its a joke that is frankly, only really funny once. After two times, it is extremely tiring to hear.
"I'd love to do more of these"
Look I'm not telling you how to do your job or anything, I'm just saying you have the ability to do so and that you should do it. Do it. Do it. (do it)
Dewit
About SSB Ultimate, I think I know who needs to be added into Smash...
CARBIDE, DRIFT AND RAGNAROK FROM FORTNITE
PLEASE talk about Mr. Game & Watch! There's so much interesting technique in adapting a character who literally can't have in-betweens into a 60fps fighting game!
Well, it really isn't *that* different.
Only now instead of trying to make a set of pictures that simulate motion when played fast enough, you're trying to make a set of pictures that... don't do that.
Which is almost harder when you're still trying to make it look and feel good.
Can his movements really be considered "animation" though?
Oh wow, wasn't expecting our God King presence here
@@jalapenoofjustice4682 Short answer: Yes.
^^^ This
My biggest nitpick with Mario's animation throughout the Smash Bros. series is that he basically never smiles. It's just so weird to see him constantly scowling. Fortunately, it looks like he'll lighten up a bit in Ultimate.
Glen Straughn He's still has that neutral expression when fighting, but at least he smiles during his taunts
Mario happens to be super competitive. You see this a lot in spinoffs. Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, he has a constant look of determination.
Suspicious Flaming Pyro True
Even in his new character render, though he doesn't look as pissed off as in Smash 4, still shows he still has that look of determination and a bit a seriousness
He is just pissed the princess got kidnapped again
@@HiimIny
The Mario characters have slightly more realistic proportions compared to their home games.
All of them. You know, if you want to.
There's about 73 so far. That's a lot of videos.
At least he won't have to search for content ideas. Videos for years.
This seems like the sort of thing Dan would enthusiastically agree to do, finish 3 or 4 episodes, then put it on hold indefinitely in favour of a different massive project that he enthusiastically agrees to do.
I want to argue with this statement, but I can't.
One per video seems a bit extreme. Maybe he should do four or five characters per video.
Very well done, I would love to see more!
Is so bizarre to see old coments from yputubers Who are Just now popping off
me too
I agree!
Same
"Video game animation has to do more than simply look good. Truly successful game animation looks good while functionally serving the needs of the game." Can't think of a better job description post than that Dan! Nice work on this video! Got me hyped for Smash!
I'd love to see vids on all of them now >~< Luigi?
I read that as he said it
They should give him 1% on footstool, that'd be adorable.
"Beloved characters and pichu" dang
"Characters we love or at least tolarate" *shows sonic*
*dang!!*
*savage*
Savage level: 10,000
*DON'T*
To be fair he was just talking about Sonics taunt
Toosoo tbh pichu is better than corrin.
Chardee MacDennis He said it twice.
0:35 and 4:04
When you’re breaking down a scene frame by frame, can you PLEASE put a number in the corner for each frame? It’ll help :)
I'd like to see a comparison between Ryu's animations in Smash and Street Fighter. It'd be interesting to see what tweaks had to be made to make him feel more "smashy".
Cloud and Bayonetta also run that same topic. They would make terrific compare/contrast subjects.
Don't forget ROB who is an actual toy and G&W who can't have fluid animation due to his origin
My first thought. Happy to see it here.
All I need is for every character to dodge while t-posing.
@@josephsheldrake6410 With Bayonetta they actually manipulated the animations from her origin game.
I think Mario's Wind-up animation being only like 1 frame is my new favorite thing, because It's so short of a wind-up and its not even a full wind-up but it still qualifies as the necessary wind-up, and that's just... beautiful.
I'd like to see you do Shulk or Cloud. Those guys are from RPGs, so their animation had very different needs in the first place, having all the time they wanted to build up effects and anticipation. It'd be cool to see how and where they chose to maintain references to those characters.
Cloud pls. :)
Yes definitely Cloud Strife.
For the same reason I want him to do a Pokemon. In addition, each Pokemon character has to represent a species, not an individual, which means you need to invent a personality.
Definetively shulk, there are so much more references to his game plus the delay of most of his moves' startup is a nice way o translating xenoblade's gameplay (seriously cloud has NOTHING besides his specials and a couple moves)
I would just like to point out that since Xenoblade is a full real-time RPG and not a turn-based one, so the animation needs are quite different to those in many other RPGs. Oh, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 makes the needs even more unusual, because you can cancel out of most animations directly in to a special at any time (the main exceptions are that it won't work if you can't use a special at all (either due to lack of charge or due to your Blade being too far away, a common occurrence in certain fights because Stench makes your Blade try to stand further away from you because you literally stink at that point) and that you can't cancel out of specific parts of a couple of Arts because you're mid-air for part of the animation) and on top of that you can cancel straight from the final hit of any Art into the startup for any other Art on the same weapon or into a Blade Switch, which means that you can enter most animations from several different paths (and can even get into the animation for some moves from that move's own animation, thanks to effects that recharge Arts while you're in the middle of using an Art (for example, several Arts and Mythra all have a critical recharge effect, which means that while using those Arts or when wielding the Aegis with Mythra getting a critical hit will recharge the currently used Art by the percentage of the effect (all of them max out at 100% charge restored if you get a crit)) and things like Finch's passive, Did I Do That?, which gives her Driver a chance of not actually consuming the charge on any move when you use it (and this one can even let you use the IV special (which puts your whole party in complete invincibility while it is being used) without using it up, letting you use it again immediately)).
Finally, text wall.
Wait are they really adding mario to smash?
I just like choked on my water xD
Yes. You are currently watch a commercial from nineteen-o-whenever the heck that was a surprise
Robert Wimms Morning r/WHOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHH
Finally!
I think it's a fake leak...
How about an episode looking at how Kirby translates the special moves of every other character to a character with almost no limbs to pose with? How did they manage to still make the moves readable and sell the impact if they couldn't rely on a readable silhouette to do the bulk of the job?
Wow, that's a great topic idea for a video!
This would be dope as well.
I always thought the Smash 64 characters didn't capture the characters quite as well as those in later games, and your analysis of Mario illustrates that well. But I think the biggest offender is DK. His animations are nice and meaty, but the only ones that called back to any DK games were his ground slap down special from DKC and forward air from DK64. He didn't even get his roll - his only attack in the DKC games! - until Smash 4. You could stick those animations onto basically any big heavy character and hardly tell the difference. Much like Mario was designed to be the average character, it seems like DK was designed first to fill the heavy archetype and second to be DK.
But then you jump to Smash 4 and look at Mega Man, who captures the character better than any official attempt by Capcom ever has. His look and animations are a perfect translation of his 8-bit sprite, his facial animations really make him feel properly robotic, and all his attacks are directly pulled from his various attacks throughout the series.
Or look at K. Rool in Smash Ultimate, whose animations manage to capture the goofy insanity of his original appearances and make direct callbacks to those appearances, but also rejuvenate him to be more ferocious than ever.
These are good observations!
In a similar vein, I've always felt that Ganondorf suffered mightily from being a clone of Captain Falcon in Melee, and have similar complaints. Why is Ganondorf, known as a sorcerer, a heavy brawler? Where are the projectile attacks? That's how he fights you in Ocarina of Time! I remember hoping for a more faithful rework with Brawl, and being disappointed that there wasn't one.
@@NewFramePlusSame with Samus, she doesn't fight or feel like her at all.
Look at dk's dash attack there is the roll
@@brodun_ did you even read the rest of the sentence you're responding to?
"-until Smash 4"
How did I only *just* find out about this channel? I loved this type of analysis stuff Dan has done in the past, so I think it’s great that there’s now a whole channel for this!
Wow such a high quality video .
It's also his first video on this channel not originally uploaded on EC.
This are the characters that I'd love (or tolerate) to see analyzed:
Link
Cloud
Kirby (particularly his copy abilities)
The Fire Emblem crew (particularly how they handle the differences between Echo Fighters)
The Pokémon crew
Mr. Game & Watch
Wario
Duck Hunt
I guess we have enough material here for a long time. lol
I especially like your suggestion of Kirby's copy abilities. I see a lot of people asking for their character to be examined because they want to understand how they successfully transitioned into a fighting game; but with Kirby you take that to the next level! How do you transition - not a character - but an ACTION to an entirely different character who also happens to have such a simple body type?
I'd also really like the suggestion of Fire Embleminos, because I'm also interested in learning how to visually differentiate Echo Fighters without having to make COMPLETELY new and different animations and move-set? Seems like figuring that out would be super useful for game developers that don't have the resources to spend on making a ton of different assets.
:( I really wish he revisited this series. I feel the views would've been really good too, especially if he made an episode whenever a new DLC dropped
Superbly done, Dan! Excellent editing, detail, analysis! Get in there, son!
I didn't know this was "Know Your Moves"
I loved this video, I really wanna see one of these on DK charactera collectively
Dan wins?
pls talk about Sandbag
underrated idea
Now that the Homerun contest is out this is a great idea!
What Smash Bros characters should you analyze...
Er...
All of them.
All of them please.
Aren't there about 200 by now?
Know Your Moves much? Lol
Timothy McLean There's 67 (73 including the echo fighters)
That "or characters we tolerate" bit hits different after the sonic animation video
Analysing the fire emblem characters could be interesting, since they need to apply moves you were never meant to control to a fighting game
Yeah, all of the characters that needed to have most of the moveset be original are very cool.
@@SaberToothPortilla........youre very ignorant
I can't believe there hasn't been more smash bros character animation videos, especially for some of the DLC. I feel like Kazuya, Sephiroth and Bayonetta would make INCREDIBLE New Frame Plus episodes. The animation for these characters specifically does such a good job of staying true to the source material. And for me, to learn the 'how' and 'why' that's the case is always so interesting!
Analyzing Luigi and Doctor Mario and how they do or don't depart from mario's animation could be pretty interesting. Luigi is pretty obviously different, but he started out as a Mario clone and has built up his own personality and play style over the years. In fact, comparing any clone character could be interesting if there's stuff there to analyze. Fox vs. Falco vs. Wolf, Link vs. Toon Link, Pikachu vs. Pichu, Marth vs. Lucina vs. Roy, Ness vs. Lucas, all come to mind. They aren't all perfect clones, but they are at least comparable.
I'll second this as an interesting topic, at least for one video: how animation differs over characters with similar or identical movesets.
Throw in Chrom too, once Ultimate comes out.
Thirded! This is a fantastic topic, and not only can you give examples of how it's done right, but also compare and contrast those differences and how they convey character.
fourthed, dont forget the Ness vs. Lucas vs. Sans either
I *just* got the pun of the channel's name
Do you mean it's derivative from Extra Frames?
that *and* it's a pun for "New Game+" so, double pun I guess?
NOW I GET IT TOO. That was... very obvious. and on point.
Cyanic I didn’t notice that either
Why didn't I get that until now!? SHEESH
I nearly fell out of my chair at the "Also Pichu" comment.
Zachary Wilson Pichu got bouncier animations.
An amazingly edited and polished video :) ! Super interesting stuff, well done :) !
I was not expecting to find my favorite coding channel in here, awesome
The analysis is great, but can we all talk about how amazingly funny this is as well? Dan, good job man!
"He golfs, he referees. He Olympics, he parties." 😂
I'd love to see Villager or Wii Fit Trainer, getting the feeling of characters who don't fight into a fighting game is an interesting task and I'd love to see your breakdown of how they did it.
I'd also love to see a speculative video, similar to how you framed Mario here, a discussion of what you'd need to consider to translate a character who isn't in smash, but would have some unique traits that would make them difficult aswell. Personally I'm thinking something like Slime from Dragon Quest, Arle from Madou Monogatari and Puyo Puyo, Isaac from Golden Sun or a first person character like The Doom Slayer from Doom or Master Chief from Not Doom; characters who are popular picks (arle morseo in Japan than the west) but whom are fairly synonymous with a different camera angle (front facing for Slime, 2/3s for Isaac, first person for the shooters or rarely even on screen for Arle). I know Falcon and Ness did this too for not really on the screen, and Little Mac from his own camera angle, but I feel the others present new challenges of getting to read from the side, while maintaining the feel of the character.
I could listen to talks about Smash animation all day. Definitely DO make more of these, for any or all characters, and I'll watch them all.
You could do the different Link variations and how they convey the character of each link.
It would be really interesting to see how Toon Link differs from Link.
Try watching RelaxAlax's video: Link-Know Your Moves.
Ooh, this is a really good one. Compare Link and Young Link in Melee to Link and Toon Link later on!
Robert Wallis Oh great idea! I hope Dan sees this.
The production quality on this is stellar. Clearly a lot of effort went into the making of this. I just found your channel, and here I shall stay.
I'd say you should cover Pichu for that dig... but I'd be happy with any character honestly. Everyone's here! COVER THEM ALL! ULTIMATE ANALYSIS!
G
Loved your new channel Dan, you're still inspiring me to become better at animation. But I can't seem to stop wanting to cry when I hear you, I think you know what I mean. Wish you all the best !
Part of me is curious about Wii Fit Trainer, given that they needed to make a character out of a fitness app.
This is amazing. As someone that has entered training mode and watched the characters' animations at 1/4 speed just to marvel at the techniques used in them, this video is just lovely. You touch on everything that makes the characters move responsively and with personality.
If I were to suggest a character, it would be Little Mac. You talk about how characters moves are sped up to be responsive and he comes to mind. His moves are lightning fast, with a jab that comes out in 1 frame even. Despite this quickness, his attacks land with satisfying, brutal impact. Would be interesting to see you talk about how it is the animators did this.
yall be dissing pichu now but catch me at evo 2019
Can't wait to see Farmer Squidward vs ZeRo in grand finals.
I actually want somebody to do well with Pichu at some point.
AceWire802 I just want someone to go to a tournament and call themselves Farmer Squidward
I think you are the perfect youtuber to make these type of videos, great work!
7:08 - Mario's walk and run animations ARE a reference. They're from the New SMB series.
Very nice looking back on this now that Ultimate is well out, and the amount of care in all fronts for each character, especially the animation, is just great to simply admire. Thanks for giving us all some more insight into it 👍
I'd like to hear your thoughts on Cloud in particular, since they were translating a character from a turn-based game who really didn't have all that much to draw from in terms of typical fighting game moves, given most of the variation in FF7 comes from materia and summons and also had to differentiate him from other sword wielding characters. Great video Dan, glad to have this kind of content make a return!
Granted as a semi competitive player I would say Mario's jump is pretty good. His ariel drift and the low lag he has after throwing out an ariel move makes him an ariel threat so in that way you could say his jump is special.
Youve opened yourself up for punishment Dan.
All of them. Do all of them. Cause this is good stuff.
72 more to go.
These videos are so great. They're in-depth, informational, and enjoyable to watch. Keep it up!
It seems like the Mii fighter could serve as the new baseline, vanilla fighter if Nintendo wanted to make Smash!Mario more uniquely Mario. And that would be kinda neat; giving him (and perhaps other Mario characters) a Ground Pound move would fit him well. Though it _would_ probably require not only reworking Mario but also tweaking most other characters to make sure ground-pounders have a place in the game's complicated rock/paper/scissors balance diagram...
mario not having a ground pound always felt like a missed opportunity to me. it wouldn't really require much rebalancing considering that a ton of characters already have something like a ground pound in their moveset (toon link, zero suit samus, greninja)
I loved every second of me listening to you geek out about animation, you earned a sub.
I love DanMii’s simple •_• expressions lol
This video appeared on my recommendations. I paused the video at 00:12, just to subscribe. It was so clear this was going to be great... Bravo!
3:40 Ok that's gotta be the hardest I've laughed in a while, or at least to a TH-cam video.
Important thing about fighting game animation is that animation becomes a crucial part of game design. Stuff like frame data means that changing duration of animation by a couple frames can drastically change balance in high level play.
7:01
“So long gay bowsa!”
I’m happy to see a new game design channel growing.
Just subscribed!
I would add one more detail to the functionality musts of the Smash Bros. animation: they must match the hitboxes. I think believe that's why most of the attacks in Smash 4 have colorful flairs at the ends of the attack animations: to convey the hitbox.
As for which character I'd love to see an analysis of next, that's a tricky one. Hmm, I think I got it. I would like to see the character with the most technically complex animations analyzed. That way I can get an understanding of all the work and effort, as well as the tools and techniques, like squash & stretch, used in video game animation.
Got here from a Mark Brown tweet and by the end of the video it honestly felt like I could have continued watching you talk about this for so much longer, great content, honestly.
I would love to see a video about a character who clearly is not a fighter, like Villager or Mr. Game and Watch.
Definitely want to see more Smash stuff on this channel since it's one of my favourite series, and there's so much to talk about in terms of animations, but another thing that I'd really like to see now would be a video on the animations in the 3D Mario games, and how they make the movement feel so satisfying (Sunshine, Odyssey and 64 in particular).
Made a video for everyone please 😅
Good to hear Dan's actual voice once in a while aside from his cartoony voice on Extra Credits. Love the video!
Your comment about Mario probably being different if he was added now is something that bothers me about many of the "Gen 1"-Fighters. It's obvious that they are well established and that Sakurai does not want to change the basic formula of the characters. But back then many concessions had to be made while executions of newer characters adhere to their respective uniqueness and gimmicks almost to a fault. Look how much care they put into all of Mega Mans moves and attacks - so much so that he even has one tilt-attack less than other fighters. Imagine how Samus could look and play if she was added as a new character today. There is absolutely no reason to why she can only fire one charged shot in Smash while you just shoot and desintegrate everything around you in her original games. Her moveset is pretty lackluster which is a shame because I love her as a character.
I could go on about other characters as well but in essence I wished that Sakurai and his team would have taken the time and care to overhaul some of the old veterans in a way that they feel more up-to-date while similarly more true to their original form. But whelp... can't have everything, can you?
I think Samus got out a lot better than most of the other Gen 1 fighters.
At least she has a recognizable moveset. Compare her to Donkey Kong, who is generic as hell.
That's exactly how I feel. I wish every one of Kirby's attacks was one of his copy abilities instead of bland hits
Even the Gen I fighters have several unique elements. Like Kirby's absorbing ability, Yoshi's lack of a recovery move which is compensated for by his high jump and knight armor, Link's shield and others.
Can we take a moment to appreciate Ridley's animation?
Like he's just VICIOUS!
The way he grabs oponents by their heads and then furiously slides them through the stage is just brutal. My personal favourite detail is how when he does his forward tilt (where he stabs the opponent with his tail) he actually grabs his tail and uses it as a spear just so he can do as much damage as possible. Or in his victory animation where he looks like he's eviscerating one of his preys he straight up grins to the camera.
Yes, his size may not represent the original faithfully but damn did they nail his personality!
I'd like to see you look at the evolution of a character's animations throughout the Smash franchise. This may or may not be because I miss Bowser's old design and animations...
Also: I'd love to see you take a look at and of the Project M exclusive animations, like Koopa Claw down throw and Ganondorf's dodges.
(I'll never forgive them for removing my beloved anger monorail and giving him long limbs.)
mario has a very big aerial combo game and thats where he gets most of his kills, so i think he is represented great. he also is considered the jack of all trades in his games, and this translates to smash very well.
I feel like the obvious choice for Smash animation analysis is Wii Fit Trainer, since the whole point of her character is her unusual movements.
I was JUST thinking about if you were still gonna do this animation series. And then I found you again! Subscribed!
Pichu is beloved, I’ll have you know
Agreed
This video is fantastic and fascinating! As much of a workload as it would be, I think you could make this an entire series in itself of just covering every character, because yes we've had series like Know Your Moves, but thats more about the moves origins, compared to the specific style and animation as it is here.
Rather than focusing on a single character, I'd like to see a COMPARISON of a fast character like Cpt. Falcon, vs a slow one like Ganondorf. I'll be happy with the comparison of any fast vs slow characters, but I'd specifically like to see a comparison of those. That way we wouldn't be comparing "apples to oranges" so much. Also, how would YOU have changed them up to be mechanically similar (same move-sets) yet visually distinct. That way we'd learn how to make a game seem more diverse and varied without sinking time and money into developing new move-sets or assets. That could also be an interesting experiment with Pit and Dark Pit, who desperately need some differentiation.
Mario, the main of my brother for about 6 years until he found his untapped potential with Mr. G&W
I'd LOVE to see you break down Peach! It must have taken a lot of work to make Peach into a character in a fighting game, where, up until Melee, she had *never* been playable in a game outside of the US SMB2. All Peach had was floating, and they not only had fun with feminine cliches (She can pull out and hit you with a frying pan), but also *added* to her personality with ehr cheerful, gentle demeanor, and things like her butt bounce which really shows off a fun loving, playful side to Peach. I think she's a masterful example of "Show, don't tell"
Peach's best weapon in Super Mario RPG was the frying pan, and might be one of the only existing references to that game in Smash, save for the Geno costume.
This channel is incredible. I really like what you're doing here. It's very informative, interesting and you explain concepts well. I really hope it takes off and becomes something truly beautiful. I personally would like to see you cover every Smash Bros fighter but take things at your own pace. No rush. ;)
i'm kinda shocked you didn't go into any characters who's translation failed, maybe a particular demon king being a ripoff of a guy who doesn't have a moveset in his original game? just a thought.
and since it's topical, you should analyze sonic's smash moveset, since you have so much practice with sonic animation now. and i fully expect you to rag on it the entire time, despite being a sonic fan.
Haha, Ganondorf is an interesting case.
Being a last second character that was going to be cut unless corners were cut instead, makes the translation understandable. (I am personally really glad he made it in.)
Brawl and beyond though, his new animations pull a whole lot from his own games and nails in that Ganondorf feel, which is really impressive despite still having his Melee moveset.
I really look forward to seeing his new changes for Smash Ultimate in more detail.
As someone who has played too much gannondorf on for glory, I don’t want gannondorf changed to be accurate to the games. Even if they gave his moveset to Black Shadow or something, it wouldn’t be the same. I’m surprised how many people actually expected massive changes like that for Mario and Link.
Ooh, a new channel to binge watch all of its current content, glad I found you haha
You got that right. Mario's got a *_T H I C C_* build
Dude, do 'em all. I'll watch you analyze all 73. As a game designer who's looking to up his art skills in the near future, I needed this video and I would love more like it.
The animation in ultimate is so much better than the one in smash 4, I hope you can revisit this topic someday !
I'd say the animations are largely the same from 4 to Ultimate. The changes that makes them smoother are the transitional frames from one action to the next. From 64 to 4 they were pretty janky.
Oh my gosh, that video was delightful! Thanks, Dan! One other character I would be interested in is Kirby, specifically his copy abilities. How do you translate a character’s feel into smash, into a round pink puffball that’s already bringing its own feel into smash?
DID THIS BOI DISS MY MANS PICHU???
I would honestly love it if you do pit. I always found it so interesting and fascinating how each move feels and looks as meaty as it does in kid Icarus uprising. And how they translated him from a 3d game to a 2d one, and adding the jump he never had, and what they did to make pit feel like an angel and army captain, this is why I would love it if you covered pit.
make it a series
Very glad this popped in my recommendations, this video was great! Looking forward to seeing more from you in future!
what did pichu ever do to you dan
Also Sonic. Though from what I've heard of the "recent" releases in that series, it might just be a general unease.
Céline .S. Sauvé Dan has video evidence of how Sonic personally wronged him in his sonic playthroughs though so that checks out
SOnic sucks it's a reference to Dan's playthoughs of all the sonic games in chronological order ^^ The latest one was Shadow the Hedgehog lol
Ridley! all of his attacks feel super savage, I don't know, his animations feel like everything he should be, mean looking, savage, but still somewhat indicates that he's an intelligent creature with a capacity for cruelty as intense as that sounds lol
Kirby Kirby Kirby
That’s the name you should know
Kirby Kirby Kirby
Make him the star of the show
Hey, I would absolutely LOVE to see you cover Steve's animations in Smash. He absolutely fills the requirements from 3:56 to 4:35
I'd like to see you do an analysis on Bayonetta! It'd be interesting to learn how Nintendo adapted a character from an M rated game to a T rated game while still keeping everything about her movement and personality the same.
Also dang this video was fantastic! First vid I have ever watched on this channel, and already I love your content
To me Mario feels more serious than cute.
He lightened up a bit in Ultimate.
Well, at least in his taunts
Looking at the differences between King Dedede in Brawl and Smash 4 would be cool! They really upped the personality levels on his animation. This also seems to be the case for many more characters in Ultimate. Keep up the great work and I look forward to new episodes!
Yo
Edit:Gotta go Fest
Edit2: pichu did nothing wrong
My in universe theory for Mario’s hands and feet growing when attacking is the super mushroom. It doesn’t just turn him into a giant, but allows him to change the size of any part of his being at will.
One more important thing to note is that Smash usually adds its own spin to certain characters' traits, in Mario you can see it in his "upbeat determination", as you perfectly described it, becoming a bit more competitive, to better face the big fight that is the Smash series. In Melee, in particular, I think he hits the sweetspot where he looks serious but also like he's enjoying himself.
you could make an argument that Mario's deemphasis on Jumps and added emphasis on his punching and kicking, is also due to his versatility. When Mario Karts he doesn't jump higher than others in his Kart, he just races well, same with when he golfs or plays Tennis... Mario as a baseline just makes sense.
Great video by the way!
I would ADORE a video like this about Skullgirls! It's one of the best animated games I've ever played!!
I'd honestly like to see analysis of every character's animations, so maybe make a separate series dedicated to it
How is this channel not have millions of subscribers already?
It's like Game Theory but for animations!
You have to check out Belmont as this is the first time he has been in 3D and it is the perfect example of how important it is to have a solid silhouette