Loved the change. Paul's reserve, his betrayal of Chani and her realistically heartbreaking reaction was executed perfectly. It had a tragic finality to it that I actually don't want them to get back together so easily in the next movie.
I was most disappointed that it didn't have more Christopher Walken playing the emperor. See, I have a fever, and the only prescription is more Walken.
Excellent as usual! I think you're right that it helps to layer the source material's critique of messianism by showing the audience someone who can see through the mythos building around Paul. Perhaps especially important given how much the novel relies on characters' internal dialogue to make that point, which a cinematic adaptation simply can't do in the same way.
Agreed. Chani was the weakest character (as written). So utterly passive. And she doesn’t fall in love, she goes straight to worship. Film Chani has discernment. And that makes her love for Paul meaningful. She doesn’t believe he’s a messiah, she knows him as mortal and flawed and loves him anyway. She sees him, and loves him. A much better match.
Its So funny that people get hung up on chani who is such an uninteresting character that no one gave much of a fuck about weither or not she is happy or mad.
The guy from New Rockstars had the exact same take with Channi and the character shift, and he was buried in the comments. I happen to wholly agree with him. Channi ultimately feels betrayed, and not scorned. She feels as though Paul had simply manipulated the Frehman for his own political gain, and she's still committed to the rebellion. It's a cliffhanger that leaves you re-evaluating Paul as a central character.
Thank you. Some people just don’t understand that when translating between mediums, change is actually required if you want the translation to work. A direct, absolute word for word translation is going to lose things. Yes, in recent years, we are seeing tons of genuinely unfaithful adaptations by people who do not respect the originals. But that does *not* mean that all changes in an adaptation count as unfaithful. JK Rowling wrote a film screenplay and it was a mess. Because novels and screenplays are fundamentally different. They convey character, arcs, themes, etc in different ways. A word for word translation between two languages will be confusing and perhaps even misleading. A good adaptation requires deep understanding of both mediums, great respect for the originals… and the ability to change just enough that the translation *works*
It's worse than not respecting the originals, often today's adaptations are made by people who outwardly hate the original art and/or artist they are adapting. And are using the opportunity of the adaptation to destroy the work.
@@iminumst7827 I’ve started hearing the term “hate-fiction.” The only good thing about all these deliberately hateful adaptations is that respectful fanfiction by people who genuinely love an IP are finally starting to get respect. People that hate what you love can ruin it and demand money. But good fanfiction is essentially the opposite in every way
Ignore the haters, bro. Denis earned our trust by pouring his sincerest efforts into an adaptation more faithful to the book than anyone thought modern Hollywood would allow, and the few changes he made were masterful. A movie is simply a different medium than a book. Other commenters here have pointed out that the internal character tensions in the book work much, much better as interpersonal tensions expressed as dialogue in the movie. Nobody wants a repeat of the voiceover-laden David Lynch disaster, as much as they whine about this film being 90% accurate instead of 100%. It’s so rare to see someone with both the courage to honor the spirit of a work rather than the letter, and the humility to only do that when warranted. Dune 2 is transcendent.
I can see how people who are so fed up with woke nonsense see this as yet another attempt at pushing a girlboss into a story. But I feel Frank Herbert would have loved this change and probably would have wished he thought of making Chani the character the audience could empathise with. Chani is not a girlboss, she's constantly overruled and even physically restrained, she's powerless and helplessly watching her people and her culture go up in smoke. Woke writers wouldn't have allowed that to happen. Woke writers would have come up with a way Chani keeps the power rather than storm off into the desert.
An attempt was made, but I still found it poor. Maybe it was the writing, the direction, or perhaps the (lack of) acting of 'Zendaya.' The character's progression felt schizophrenic, and not in an intentional way. She behaves in a manner which, if the fundamentalist fever is to be believed, Chani would have been silently disposed of a long time ago for her constant questioning. It becomes a bit of an irony that the only thing protecting her defiance of her people's faith is the planted prophet of her people's faith himself- who in one scene, she scorns, and the next scene, she sleeps with, and the next scene, decries for not being 'true Fremen,' while also going to enact the very same prophecies she herself says isn't true. I didn't feel conflict in Chani, I felt confused. Their relationship had to stick with the audience in order for her leaving at the end to be meaningful. The problem occurs in the film, for me, in the failure to clearly demonstrate the 'New Paul' after drinking the water of life. We briefly get a sense of Paul's child-age and wonderment at the start of the book, which is quickly eliminated as his father Leto reveals WHY Paul has undergone the training he has to become a Mentat. The mirroring scene of that is his second maturation occuring after drinking the Water of Life. I know DV was trying to do this, as Paul states at least twice to Chani that "You will have me so long as I breathe" and Paul appears to stop breathing after drinking the Water of Life. This is supposed to be our audience cue that we are not about to see the same Paul- but, ultimately, Denis' attempt at subtlety with the characters is antithetical to his bombastic in-your-face visuals. This additional 'maturation' into the Kwisatz Haderach, to parallel for the viewer the mentat revelation, could not have been mirrored in the film because we never receive the heart-to-heart that Leto I has with Paul. Paul's 'arcs' of progression are obfuscated in this film. In addition, there is no mention of Fremen philosophy or the 'weirding ways' which would give the audience the capability to empathize with Chani and her refusal to adhere to Paul as Mahdi. Ultimately, I'm not sure if I'm interested to see an interpretation where Chani's egalitarianism versus Paul's theocratic authoritarianism is the crux of it. I think DV is trying to take Leto II's Golden Path and ply it onto Chani's character, and it doesn't work.
Nicely put, I thought I was the only one feeling this way :) Also it seems that the Fremen were a bit "missed" in this movie, their '"hardness" and extreme culture really was did not translate that much to the movie, especially with Stilgar been sort of a comic relief unlike the novel version of him.
@@ugi0909that’s definitely something I feel got a little too skipped over. The films kinda drop the brutality of the Fremen once Paul starts letting himself get railroaded into being the lisan al’gaib, when in the book he becomes utterly immersed in it. When I think about my experience reading Dune, I always think foremost about the scene where Paul loses track of the future while in a sietch with Chani. Where he realises just how doomed he is. I felt disappointed in how Dune part 2 avoided this entirely. The sietch is no longer a safe and comfortable but suffocating place. Paul barely demonstrates any of his anguish over becoming stuck in this future. It feels a little flat. It’s still the best adaptation of Dune that has been made imo. But part 1 is definitely the superior adaptation.
Utter bullshit, the only reason they had for splitting the movie in two was purely commercial, and the nonsense about giving the audience a cliffhanger? You get exactly the same effect with the Irulan, Chani dichotomy, the fact that Paul has to marry Irulan for purely political reasons, while at the same time being deeply in love with Chani.
in my pov the movie takes a big heaping dump on the book by failing to understand the story's relationship between religion and ecology. Herbert viewed societies as ecologically bound together between the relationship of the people and their environment and especially desert societies in our world being so indivisible from their religions as an extension of their ecosystems. The brutality of living in a desert and the stringent devotion to religion are as one. Same as in Dune, any deviation from that religious devotion is the luxury only afforded to those outside of that ecosystem because deviation inside would clash with that very ecosystem. There is no such thing as a neoliberal atheistic desert culture, it can't exist, the very natures clash. Yet Dune 2 does exactly that. Ecosystem, the theme at the center of the entire series, be damned. When the writer wants to have the good guys reflect his own political/religious perspective he'll damn the worldbuilding it screams not only unfaithful but mediocre. It's the same absurdity that thought Afghanistan could maintain it's democracy without western intervention for longer than a week. It manufacturing relationship drama means nothing to me compared to failing to understand the core theme of the story and tearing apart the worldbuilding
@@repippeas I did. And her changes were caused by modern sentiments and not by necessity of adaptation. I know you didn't read the book, but if you do so, you can notice that Shani didn't doubt Paul was messiah yet she does in the film.
@@abrvalg321"yet she does in the film".... we know. and i think it works beautifully and you're judging this change unfairly bc you can't let go of the annoyance you've felt at so called "woke" films
yeah this or he pulled a teen rebel movie move. the adaptation does feel more childish and expressive on many levels, where the book isn't afraid to be adult and nuanced. The characters of Chani and even more Lady Jessica are examples of that. Also, this kinda fucks up how we gonna get our God Emperor (and Ghani) then, now that there's a family drama?
Loved the change. Paul's reserve, his betrayal of Chani and her realistically heartbreaking reaction was executed perfectly. It had a tragic finality to it that I actually don't want them to get back together so easily in the next movie.
I was most disappointed with the total lack of the spacing guild. They’re very important especially in the final scene.
I don't think we can say definitively whether the change makes the adaptation better or worse, until we see how the conflict is resolved in part 3.
I was most disappointed that it didn't have more Christopher Walken playing the emperor. See, I have a fever, and the only prescription is more Walken.
Excellent as usual! I think you're right that it helps to layer the source material's critique of messianism by showing the audience someone who can see through the mythos building around Paul. Perhaps especially important given how much the novel relies on characters' internal dialogue to make that point, which a cinematic adaptation simply can't do in the same way.
A great point. Thanks Harry!
It’s an improvement and im a book purist
Agreed. Chani was the weakest character (as written). So utterly passive. And she doesn’t fall in love, she goes straight to worship. Film Chani has discernment. And that makes her love for Paul meaningful. She doesn’t believe he’s a messiah, she knows him as mortal and flawed and loves him anyway. She sees him, and loves him. A much better match.
I have hard Dune 2 opinions, but this made me reexamine some of my initial thoughts! Also, I laughed so hard at the end of this video- perfectly done!
Its So funny that people get hung up on chani who is such an uninteresting character that no one gave much of a fuck about weither or not she is happy or mad.
They could still have had the refusal of Paul as the new emperor without changing Chani. Of course, I don't think that was in the book either ;)
What’s the synth music right at the end? I’ve heard it before
It's a cover of the Airwolf theme by Luke Million. Check him out, his stuff is incredible
Beautiful essay! Subscribed.
The guy from New Rockstars had the exact same take with Channi and the character shift, and he was buried in the comments. I happen to wholly agree with him. Channi ultimately feels betrayed, and not scorned. She feels as though Paul had simply manipulated the Frehman for his own political gain, and she's still committed to the rebellion. It's a cliffhanger that leaves you re-evaluating Paul as a central character.
Another Johnny marks video in less than a month! Christmas came early this year
Did this man just use an the piano lesson video of All Eyes On Me ?
Well done
A fellow Bo Burnham fan. I caught that too.
Thank you. Some people just don’t understand that when translating between mediums, change is actually required if you want the translation to work. A direct, absolute word for word translation is going to lose things. Yes, in recent years, we are seeing tons of genuinely unfaithful adaptations by people who do not respect the originals. But that does *not* mean that all changes in an adaptation count as unfaithful. JK Rowling wrote a film screenplay and it was a mess. Because novels and screenplays are fundamentally different. They convey character, arcs, themes, etc in different ways. A word for word translation between two languages will be confusing and perhaps even misleading. A good adaptation requires deep understanding of both mediums, great respect for the originals… and the ability to change just enough that the translation *works*
exactly!
It's worse than not respecting the originals, often today's adaptations are made by people who outwardly hate the original art and/or artist they are adapting. And are using the opportunity of the adaptation to destroy the work.
@@iminumst7827 I’ve started hearing the term “hate-fiction.” The only good thing about all these deliberately hateful adaptations is that respectful fanfiction by people who genuinely love an IP are finally starting to get respect. People that hate what you love can ruin it and demand money. But good fanfiction is essentially the opposite in every way
super good video man. nice
Excellent
Phenomenal
Great video love this analogy
finally the frontpage yt algo sent me a sub 1k views video that isn’t completely dogshit. liked and subbed
nice dude :)
Ignore the haters, bro. Denis earned our trust by pouring his sincerest efforts into an adaptation more faithful to the book than anyone thought modern Hollywood would allow, and the few changes he made were masterful.
A movie is simply a different medium than a book. Other commenters here have pointed out that the internal character tensions in the book work much, much better as interpersonal tensions expressed as dialogue in the movie. Nobody wants a repeat of the voiceover-laden David Lynch disaster, as much as they whine about this film being 90% accurate instead of 100%.
It’s so rare to see someone with both the courage to honor the spirit of a work rather than the letter, and the humility to only do that when warranted.
Dune 2 is transcendent.
I can see how people who are so fed up with woke nonsense see this as yet another attempt at pushing a girlboss into a story. But I feel Frank Herbert would have loved this change and probably would have wished he thought of making Chani the character the audience could empathise with. Chani is not a girlboss, she's constantly overruled and even physically restrained, she's powerless and helplessly watching her people and her culture go up in smoke. Woke writers wouldn't have allowed that to happen. Woke writers would have come up with a way Chani keeps the power rather than storm off into the desert.
Woke 💀
Dude go take a shower Jesus
Bro.. seriously change your vision on life. You sound like a 12 year old cringe kid
Woke nonsense, please.
Stop being triggered by people unlike yourself in movies.
Is the woke hiding under your bed? Get a grip, sheep
An attempt was made, but I still found it poor. Maybe it was the writing, the direction, or perhaps the (lack of) acting of 'Zendaya.' The character's progression felt schizophrenic, and not in an intentional way. She behaves in a manner which, if the fundamentalist fever is to be believed, Chani would have been silently disposed of a long time ago for her constant questioning. It becomes a bit of an irony that the only thing protecting her defiance of her people's faith is the planted prophet of her people's faith himself- who in one scene, she scorns, and the next scene, she sleeps with, and the next scene, decries for not being 'true Fremen,' while also going to enact the very same prophecies she herself says isn't true. I didn't feel conflict in Chani, I felt confused. Their relationship had to stick with the audience in order for her leaving at the end to be meaningful.
The problem occurs in the film, for me, in the failure to clearly demonstrate the 'New Paul' after drinking the water of life. We briefly get a sense of Paul's child-age and wonderment at the start of the book, which is quickly eliminated as his father Leto reveals WHY Paul has undergone the training he has to become a Mentat. The mirroring scene of that is his second maturation occuring after drinking the Water of Life. I know DV was trying to do this, as Paul states at least twice to Chani that "You will have me so long as I breathe" and Paul appears to stop breathing after drinking the Water of Life. This is supposed to be our audience cue that we are not about to see the same Paul- but, ultimately, Denis' attempt at subtlety with the characters is antithetical to his bombastic in-your-face visuals. This additional 'maturation' into the Kwisatz Haderach, to parallel for the viewer the mentat revelation, could not have been mirrored in the film because we never receive the heart-to-heart that Leto I has with Paul. Paul's 'arcs' of progression are obfuscated in this film. In addition, there is no mention of Fremen philosophy or the 'weirding ways' which would give the audience the capability to empathize with Chani and her refusal to adhere to Paul as Mahdi. Ultimately, I'm not sure if I'm interested to see an interpretation where Chani's egalitarianism versus Paul's theocratic authoritarianism is the crux of it. I think DV is trying to take Leto II's Golden Path and ply it onto Chani's character, and it doesn't work.
Nicely put, I thought I was the only one feeling this way :)
Also it seems that the Fremen were a bit "missed" in this movie, their '"hardness" and extreme culture really was did not translate that much to the movie, especially with Stilgar been sort of a comic relief unlike the novel version of him.
@@ugi0909that’s definitely something I feel got a little too skipped over. The films kinda drop the brutality of the Fremen once Paul starts letting himself get railroaded into being the lisan al’gaib, when in the book he becomes utterly immersed in it.
When I think about my experience reading Dune, I always think foremost about the scene where Paul loses track of the future while in a sietch with Chani. Where he realises just how doomed he is. I felt disappointed in how Dune part 2 avoided this entirely. The sietch is no longer a safe and comfortable but suffocating place. Paul barely demonstrates any of his anguish over becoming stuck in this future. It feels a little flat.
It’s still the best adaptation of Dune that has been made imo. But part 1 is definitely the superior adaptation.
lol imagine saying... "in order to be right... it needs to be wrong."
No Spacing Guild? No dice. And also, I don't buy a single bit of your argument.
It looks like nobody’s buying yours either.
I don't think he was selling it. You should handle differing opinions better.
Cope.
Utter bullshit, the only reason they had for splitting the movie in two was purely commercial, and the nonsense about giving the audience a cliffhanger? You get exactly the same effect with the Irulan, Chani dichotomy, the fact that Paul has to marry Irulan for purely political reasons, while at the same time being deeply in love with Chani.
in my pov the movie takes a big heaping dump on the book by failing to understand the story's relationship between religion and ecology. Herbert viewed societies as ecologically bound together between the relationship of the people and their environment and especially desert societies in our world being so indivisible from their religions as an extension of their ecosystems. The brutality of living in a desert and the stringent devotion to religion are as one. Same as in Dune, any deviation from that religious devotion is the luxury only afforded to those outside of that ecosystem because deviation inside would clash with that very ecosystem. There is no such thing as a neoliberal atheistic desert culture, it can't exist, the very natures clash. Yet Dune 2 does exactly that. Ecosystem, the theme at the center of the entire series, be damned. When the writer wants to have the good guys reflect his own political/religious perspective he'll damn the worldbuilding it screams not only unfaithful but mediocre. It's the same absurdity that thought Afghanistan could maintain it's democracy without western intervention for longer than a week. It manufacturing relationship drama means nothing to me compared to failing to understand the core theme of the story and tearing apart the worldbuilding
Let's be honest, Shani changes are caused by modern feminist, he had to put a strong/independent woman.
did you watch the video at all?
Thank the gods for that.
@@repippeas I did. And her changes were caused by modern sentiments and not by necessity of adaptation.
I know you didn't read the book, but if you do so, you can notice that Shani didn't doubt Paul was messiah yet she does in the film.
@@abrvalg321 I can tell you didnt watch the video, they establish why that was a deliberate choice
@@abrvalg321"yet she does in the film".... we know. and i think it works beautifully and you're judging this change unfairly bc you can't let go of the annoyance you've felt at so called "woke" films
yeah this or he pulled a teen rebel movie move. the adaptation does feel more childish and expressive on many levels, where the book isn't afraid to be adult and nuanced. The characters of Chani and even more Lady Jessica are examples of that. Also, this kinda fucks up how we gonna get our God Emperor (and Ghani) then, now that there's a family drama?