The Goldwing DCT is a nightmare at low speed handling.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2023
- In this video I'll explain why the DCT is so difficult to handle at low speeds.
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I disagree. I have put 21,000 miles on the GoldWing DCT 2021 and 2,000 miles on a 2022 Harley Low Rider ST. I was surprised that even though the Low Rider is lighter, I feel more comfortable on the DCT in the parking lot. With the DCT, you only need to learn 2 things - throttle control and rear brake control. With a traditional clutch bike, you need to master 3 skills - clutch/friction zone, throttle, and rear brake. When using the DCT on slow speed drills, I think it is important to turn off the automatic and use the paddle shifter. This way I leave it in 1st gear so that the bike isn't constantly trying to upshift. I will admit that I probably could not do all of your drills on either bike, but I always do a short warm up in the parking lot if I have not ridden in a week or so. The Honda is very well balanced and has a low center of gravity. I think the key to the DCT is knowing when to use the paddle shifter. On twisty's and rural roads, I find that the paddle shifter offers plenty of fun and control. Then I let the automatic do the work when I ride home on the boring divided highway with lots of traffic lights. On long trips (500 miles +), I find the DCT is must less tiring and more enjoyable. I have never stalled the Harley, but I have missed gears, shifted into neutral by mistake, and find the downshifting at every stop sign cumbersome. Although I like both bikes for different reasons, I believe that I am a better and faster rider in most conditions on the Honda.
If you master the clutch/throttle coordination on the ST, you'll find it will run circles around a DCT Wing.
Your explanation of how to ride a low-speed maneuvers on a DCT GoldWing is right on, except: It ain't that hard to learn to do it instead of feathering a clutch lever as one does on a regular Wing. One tip I found helpful is to use "Rain Mode", which softens throttle response thus making tight turns easier. It takes practice, of course.
I have a DCT Wing and I agree with you, for someone doing competition slow riding the DCT isn't optimal. BUT I've had zero issues with regular parking lot or road maneuvers. I do feather the brake with the throttle when doing slow high angle turns and that works just fine for me. Love the DCT personally. 😎
No motorman, as a DCT owner I love watching your videos, have purchased your training courses etc. I agree that it's not nearly as easy, but after 3 hand surgeries, the DCT is nice to have on our mountain trips every year. Tried a Rekluse Semi auto clutch on my Road Glide but didn't really do well in the Twisties. But after many slow speed maneuvers I'm close to where I was on a bagger. Continuously, I'm sure it may cause an issue with the transmission but for day-to-day slow-speed maneuvers, I haven't had a problem in two years of ownership
I tried every mode. It doesn't matter.
@@motorman857 It does really rip along in sport mode but don't try and ride in town in that setting, another unaddressed issue.
Just purchased a 2019 Tour DCT. I agree with you Jerry. It is difficult coming from the clutch world to the DCT world. No argument there. You have to retrain your mind to do things differently. This comes with practice. If you're willing to work hard to gain the benefits of the DCT you will come to love what it offers. Its not for everyone. But coping an attitude and titling your video "Warning don't buy a DCT GoldWing" is a dead giveaway you're not an impartial judge. I watched this video and the other one you did. I think the content was fair and accurate but you destroy your credibility with the title of this video. The truth is, and there are tons of vids out there who have done a more thorough research job, the Honda GoldWing is a superior bike compared to anything Harley puts out. It's clear you're a Harley guy, Jerry but you're far from an expert on Honda. If you don't want people attacking your vids then stay in your lane. You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Safe riding dude. ✌️
Can’t wait to ride with you @perrymckinnon2220
Couldnt have put it better myself!!
Check out CRUISERMANS video titled
CATASTROPHIC ENGINE FAILURE
on generation 6 Hondas
That's a classic
His reply to me was...
IT MAY ONLY BE A FEW!!
Then why would he do a feature video on it
You see my comment
It's in CAPITALS
I and my wife are bloody livid
He too hasnt done is reputation any good
Over here in the uk
Rain mode works for me. There have been reported issues with practicing slow speed maneuvers linked to damaging the clutch on the DCT. Jerry gives good info on this.
I'm a new subscriber to your channel and very much appreciate this info on the DCT. It may have been the first version of this bike, but another reviewer noticed the computer was going crazy trying to figure out what to do with his throttling and braking at low speeds. He was trying to do low speed tight turns.
I was curious about this and you've satisfied my curiosity on this matter.
I have never taken a riding class and have no intention of doing any kind of riding competitions anyway. But I do need to learn how to make tighter turns. It's something I need to learn watching your channel and practicing on something I can drop without damaging. My current bike is a Honda CTX1300, a good lean angle and low speed handling. But the mirrors tend to break when dropped.
I have a DCT and yes Jerry is correct, me coming from a Buell, the DCT was and remains inferior for this type of riding, and after that wonderful Buell, its near idle speed limitations are frustrating: however; it is a labor saver both mental and physical, and the transmission always picks the right gear, and this automatic transmission, like in a car, is a small luxury that is hard to reverse once one becomes accustomed to it.
i love all your video s manny thank , i have learn a lot . grts from danny from belgium
I love these videos. No interest in a Goldwing in general, I just like hearing and seeing the analysis.
Hey Jerry, having owned many motorcycles over the last 55 years I agree with you. The 2018 Goldwing DCT Tour in my garage is not great in slow speed maneuvers but it will blow away the Harley Electraglides that I’ve owned in Comfort and highway cruising. Every motorcycle has its good stuff and not so good stuff. They are kind of like people!😂👍
Does your DCT have the option to switch the transmission into manual mode for slow speed maneuvering?
No, unlike any other bike. The clutch is engaged @ threshold rpm in 1st. It shoots off the line & if you don’t cover the brake & there’s an obstacle ahead you gonna hit it. Basically the bike is in gear (all the time) until stopped & back to idle. Manual allows the rider to toggle for upshift before auto would. In manual the bike will still downshift on it’s own. I’d like to see the # of minor accidents caused by not braking quickly and jerky shifts. There is no slipping the clutch. Apparently they don’t do Shriner parades in Japan🤷
Hey Jerry, just watched the McRider video trashing you! Lol😂 I still love my Goldwing DCT but I’m also fond of my Yamaha Star Venture and Victory Cross Country Tour. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again the air cooled V twins are too hot to ride comfortably in the summer in Florida. The wing is the way to go unless you are a Jerry cone head!😎
Great video Jerry! For low speed handling I feel the DCT would really lack there as you've showed it does. Personally I would never own one for situations when precise control is needed they lack.
I’m glad you made this video. I was entertaining the idea of getting the GW DCT. Reason being the foot and leg position. I could put floorboards on it if it was a DCT. Too dangerous if it is a manual because you can’t adjust the toe shifter up. I was going to sell my EG due to low speed issues riding 2up. I just need to get down there and take your class. Thanks Jerry
You can put a heel toe shifter on, it's 150 bucks .
No worries, sir. No back lash from me. You are spot on with the DCT. I'm not saying it can't be done because it can. Just not as easily as a manual. This is just another reason for me to keep my 2015. Ride safe, sir. Love your videos.
I teach my students with them to select "rain mode" for engine control. This desensitizes the throttle response and you have to drag a small amount of rear brake to simulate a "friction zone". Otherwise it is extremely difficult to do these things. Africa Twins and Rebel 1100s
@@markman7 I have had them actually try, not knowing what to do. GW and Africa. Almost totally uncontrollable.
DCT transmissions are for scooters… some scooters are small and some are big.
@@markman7
Turd mode! So true!
Put in Manual and Rain modes. Makes a huge difference, making it much more manageable without slipping the clutches anywhere near as much.
The problem with burning up your DCT clutch lies in a high rev/high brake force proportion, when you try to control the slow speed precisely, which is key on u-turns. If you constantly fight with a sharp throttle response, you try to control it with pushing the brake harder. A manual clutch will burn as fast as a DCT clutch when you try to control the speed with high rev and hard rear braking, but you can control it via the manual clutch so you do not have to intervene that much.
The standard mode after starting a DCT bike is "TOUR", this mode has a quick upshift pattern and medium throttle response. Okay and responsive in overall riding, not ideal in slow speed manouvering.
If you switch to "RAIN" mode, your throttle response will be much softer, upshifting will be later and the clutch responds smoother. This makes slow manouvering easier.
Maybe not as easy as a manual clutch, but easily doable and much better than "TOUR".
For a comfy ride i always choose "RAIN" mode, no matter what the weather is. It gives the bike the smoothness i expect from a luxury tourer and precise throttle response at slow speed on top.
Yup, you lose one very useful tool - the clutch. You only have throttle and rear brake now and that's a lot more difficult. DCT is handy if you're stuck in heavy traffic, but here in California, I just lane share my way through! Yeah, I'm spoiled and I love it! Every state should allow it. It is safer for the riders, doesn't endanger car drivers and helps reduce traffic congestion. Not to mention helping minimize overheating on air cooled motorcycles.
Jerry, I started out with a mini-bike @ 12 with a centrifugal clutch. It burnt up every month (Cost $15). At 65 I understand why people need the DCT --- Arthritis, hand cramping, & worn out or fused finger joints). I traveled all over Europe usually renting a Burgman 650 (DCT, no cruise control) each time. Last trip in France my throttle hand totally cramped on a 6HR drive. Prior to the trip I researched and bought a simple throttle clip. A gadget that clips on the throttle and allows you to use your arm weight instead of grip to hit the gas. It totally worked and saved me from stopping. I learned to whip through stopped traffic by lane splitting (Totally accepted in France). The challenge there is not to have the huge wide Bergman's mirrors clip a stopped vehicle's mirrors when zipping by them at 40MPH. I learned you need to keep the throttle open and the rear brake on to be more directionally stable when lane splitting. I got really comfortable using the throttle & brake with the DCT. Not as good as a clutch and brake, but with my hand cramping the writing is on the wall. Sooner or later a clutch will be impossible on a long drive. Hope I don't have to go the route of DCT, But... I have a 2020 road glide special. So Jerry, in the end you should realize why people need a DCT. And ask yourself, why are there so many different handicap throttle clips on the market? Take note Harley
Great info, thx!! I had such a hard time getting used to cruise control on a bike for highway cruising, not sure how I’d appreciate an auto clutch on one.
Wow! Thanks for the advice.
I believe what you're saying is true. But we have to remember that the Goldwing DCT is not designed for these types of maneuvers. I ride mine everyday and it rides great but I don't do those maneuvers. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. If I did slow riding or skilled events, then I would look for a bike that would be good for that type of riding. Great video keep up the good work.
Jerry, thanks to you, I now own a Redline Red Road Glide Special (honest). Some of us only park in the lots. 😉
I have the DCT. I hear what you are saying for sure. I have practiced with my DCT quite a bit last year, got decent at it. Finally able to do 2 parking spot u-turns. I find that I was better off to leave in in tour mode, get it into 2 gear before starting to do the maneuvers and try and keep it in 2nd with throttle and brake use. If it shifts into 1st or 3rd, it seems to be all over for sure. I will say, slow speed is much easier on my Road King. LOL
You can get what you want for both sides. The tour and non-tour, or goldwing and F6B versions come either way if you like. For those of us who want the airbag and a new wing you can only have one choice and that is DCT. Like you had mentioned in a previous review the crash protection is lacking. I was just glad I didn't trigger the airbag when putting my '14 through the cones.
I wanted the airbag for my wife and probably would have kept the bike if she did not dislike the automatic so much
Hey Jerry, I do see a need for this DCT trans. I don't have one and hopefully I can adapt so I don't need one. Anyway, on my left hand the arthritis is terrible, especially in my middle finger (yeah, that one). The pain started when I was about 40 years old, I'm 67 now. Back then, I put an Easy Boy clutch arm on my '93 Heritage, and it helped a lot. Fast forward, today I ride an '04 H-D Road King Classic and a '98 Honda VFR800. I've installed a Muller clutch actuation plate and arm on the RK and it has reduced the pull by about 40% or so, much better. There really isn't anything for the VFR so I just tough it out. I've learned to clutch with three fingers and leave the middle finger pointing straight out. So...I could see where someone might have crippling arthritis in a left hand but still wants to ride, this might be an option for them. Hopefully, I'll never have to make that decision. My wife (who rides at 69yo) and I enjoy your videos and advice.
Jeff - I had to buy smaller clutch and brake levers when I bought my first Harley. I also have a GW DCT, which is my second DCT bike. I am of similar age and would highly recommend that you try the DCT. Once you get used to the DCT and paddle shifter, it solves all of those left hand issues.
I agree with many things said about DCT here. I have two bikes, one is DCT (rebel) and another is manual (grom) I am not an expert, well, actually I'm a noob, but, I diligently practice maneuvers on both and can confirm that it is more fun and easier on manual. Again, DCT is well capable and will do everything, but all in all manual is way to go if you want to become better rider with sharper reflexes. But DCT is a way to go for long distances or rides where main focus is on comfort.
if you get a bike with plenty of torque youre not shifting that much. these Harley's have torque for days. they will pull in higher gears where alot bikes youre having to gear down. there are quite a few bikes out there with more torque the hp.
I'm an experienced rider, over 50 years and a MSF Instructor for over ten years. 10 or the last 15 years I didn't even own a car, just rode the bike to and from. The DCT is a little harder in small turns without the clutch for sure but the benefits of the ease of use outweighs the need for a clutch. I didn't buy my second DCT to do small turns and why would anyone else? Jerry you are comparing apples to oranges here. The DCT Goldwing is by far the best touring bike on the road today. And my bicycle does small turns going to my mailbox down the street but I would not take it touring.
If you had actually watched the video you would understand that It's about low speed handling. I didn't say a word about touring. And you're a motorcycle instructor and you don't think having the ability to lean turn and swerve quickly to avoid obstacles has no use out on the street? Why do you teach it then?
I agree 100%. I test drove a 2021 DCT and couldn't get off of it fast enough. I bought a manual 2021.
It's true enough, I had a DCT Africa Twin Adventure Sport and low speed handling is definitely more difficult than on a manual. You can compensate with the back brake to a certain extent, but it's a massive concentration occurrence.
I am an older rider on a CTX 700 with DCT. I will any day trade the slightly more difficult slow speed parking lot riding for the vastly more safe high speed stops. No clutch or shifting to worry about. Just brake and worry about steering control.
I learned after many hours of practice to do the 18' turns. BUT!!!! if you're off of the bike for any length of time its very difficult to find that sweet spot again. So it's like starting over.
It easily tips over on its side so I made custom tip over protection for it back when I was practicing a lot. But now I just make larger u turns and keep it straight up and down. Love the bike.
I have a 2018 manual six speed Goldwing, it took quite a bit getting used to as my Harley was exceptional at U-turn and low Speed maneuvers. Not that this bike can’t be however it is very much one of the bikes that even though it is able to do it, it takes a lot of skill and continuous practice. I tell riders all the time use it or lose it, you should be practicing, no matter how long you’ve been riding.
Thank you for the advice
DCT rider here. You're right, the DCT is NOT good for beginners. The secret is in the throttle, it's sensitive but if you're careful and practice a lot, you'll get comfortable with the (tiny) friction zone. I kinda like the DCT, no more calluses on my left hand and no more torn left shoes from the shift lever.
I started on a DCT...
Great review, absolutely accurate 👍
Hi motorman i am a fan of the goldwing but i agree with what your saying ,i dont know why people want an automatic bike . In thailand te pcx and others are auto but they are scooters and running in really heavy traffic , i watch cruisemans garage he has a dct and he has owned a few clutch wings as well you should invite him to your course .
Perhaps you make a valid point in regards to " *slow-riding competition* " and in all fairness you did point that out, however I bet that 99.99% of wing riders prefer their DCT over a manual tranny when slowly moving the bike around. I test rode a 2023 Goldwing DCT recently and had absolutely no issues whatsoever when slowly manoeuvring the bike in fact it is way, way, WAY easier (at least for "me" anyhow) and I've been riding for over 45 years.
Gotta keep it real man! .... Competition = perhaps ---- real-world riding = piece of cake.
Send me a video of you making a simple u-turn on a 2 lane road on a DCT wing and I'll believe you. If you can't, then I'll consider you just another youtube commenter, ''expert''. Here's a hint though, 45 years of riding straight down the road and rounding a big bend at a leisurely pace, and coming to an easy stop, won't help you when you have to make a quick swerve to avoid that vehicle that pulled out in front of you. I know this because I've been teaching technique for 26 years and most of my students have been riding for many years. Yet at the beginning of the class, they can't lean, turn and swerve quickly until about the 12th try. On the street, you have only one shot at it. And that's not the time to start practicing. You can choose dumb luck or skill. Which you choose, is up to you.
Jerry, I am "not" doubting your knowledge and ability for a minute sir. I told you how long I've been riding, therefore you KNOW that I've had to quickly counter steer several times in order to avoid small & large animals, not to mention the horrible drivers we all come across on a regular basis.
As a recently retired paramedic (34 years), I've scraped way too many riders off the pavement not to be extremely cautious when I ride.
Unfortunately, you are incorrect in assuming that I simply ride _straight down the road and big rounding bends at a leisurely pace_ as most of my riding is done in the city (not all, I said most).
My wife and I want to tour the country on a full dresser. Like most other shoppers, I test ride several bikes before buying one. I am almost settled on a new DCT-GW, and so now I'm doing the typical TH-cam review thing, and that's how I came across your channel.
So to reiterate what I said earlier - I test rode a '23 Goldwing DCT recently and personally, "I" found it to be quite forgiving for such a large motorcycle. Those are "my" thoughts and mine alone. Also, based on the conversations that I've had with others who own a DCT Wing, I've yet to hear anyone suggest that a manual trans is actually easier when slowly moving around such a beast.
I know NOTHING about competition riding a full-dresser around pilons and again, perhaps you are correct in that regard sir, however I have no intention in doing that. What I DO want though, is a large motorcycle that I won't accidently drop or ram it into the wall when slowly moving it around my garage.
Again, I was very surprised at how easy and forgiving the DCT is, specially when walking it around obstacles. @@motorman857
@@leoclement3801 You might want to read a few of the comments here from people who have DCT Wings. While the bike is capable of quickly leaning, turning and swerving, it will take a lot more training to be proficient on the DCT vs the manual transmission. And there in lies the problem with the DCT. They tend to burn the auto clutches and Honda won't cover them under warranty. That's a very expensive repair. th-cam.com/video/zZcw_ft1sFE/w-d-xo.html
Jerry Palladino: YOUR videos were recommended by a friend to me around 2006/7 after a close call so I bought them. After over a decade of riding I thought I knew plenty. But then YOUR VIDEOS taught me the friction zone, keeping my eyes on a line on a turn, slow cone drills/races, practice time, etc You made me realize that I could continue becoming a better ride with each ride. One day while in a sudden horrible situation the methods I learned in YOUR VIDEOS SAVED MY LIFE. That might sound exaggerated but it’s true so I want to take this opportunity to thank you.
So if you say that the Gold Wing DCT is a no go for any reason then I’ll take your word for it. Thanks again. 🙏 👍 🏍️ 🏍️ 🏍️
Wow..just stumbled on this video..
Over here in the uk
Just had our first weekend out on our 22 dct
Me and the wife
Had to do a few u turns .well more than a few to be fair..
My point is
I just did them as i normally did
I was in rain mode and i did drag the back brake slightly
I didnt stop i was moving and realised wed missed the turnings
We generally just go wherever the mood takes us
Until now after watching this video nothing really worried me
Will bear it in mind about burnt out clutches
But to be fair i dont do competition slowspeed stuff or anything like that
Love my dct goldwing
I do find in rain mode
Slow speed manoeuvring at the weekend in traffic. And there was lots of it.Holiday!!
It was a joy
So stable at a couple of mile an hour
Confident inspiring
Very relaxing
Ps..Harley riders in the uk are considered. Well....Blue Oyster Club brigade
Slightly gay!!
Big tashes and leather waistcoats and tassles
No man can pull that off nowadays
Personally i love the look
My wife can!!!
She even has a handlebar moustache too
When shes stop shaving il send you a photo!!!!!
Great video and il take a look at some of your others
Ride safe..gotta love a carpark full off cones!!
Over here in the uk harleys
I wonder if you can do something with a tuner like a Dynojet Power Vision making it possible to change the factory ecm settings on the transmission to make slow speed handling easier?
Hi Jerry I've been watching you for many years and I appreciate your advise but lets look at why people buy the motorcycle they buy, I wouldn't use a full dresser motorcycle as a offroad bike, trying to do jumps and running through the woods. I think the DCT has it's place for people who are older or just like an automatic transmission, if you buy one and realize that slow speed maneuvers are not impossible but challenging, but the benefits of a DCT outweigh those issues, then get the DCT . Now that I know it puts stress on the clutch I would practice but rest the bike longer between sessions. Keep up the good work Jerry, I always enjoy your advise, and cautions.
Subbed, I don't know why I didn't do so sooner. I'm looking forward to becoming a better rider.
Welcome aboard!
I was looking at upgrading to a DCT because of an injury I had 33 years ago. I only have the use of my ring and baby finger operating the clutch lever. After hearing two things about the DCT, the clutch getting destroyed from slow speed riding and not good wind protection on cross country riding. My left hand gets tired in bumper to bumper riding is why I gave some thoughts about the DCT. So, I’ll just have to strengthen up my strength in my left hand.
I don't think that stop and go traffic is going to be a problem with a DCT Goldwing. If you need the DCT due to physical limitations and you're not planning on doing low speed maneuvering competition, I'd say go for it. I ride with several riders who have DCT Goldwings and they all love them.
You can also get a twist clutch adapted. Works just like the throttle.
I think I might have been one of the first to ask you about this. No, I'm not angry. Rather than keep fighting with it and risk burning the clutch, I have relegated the bike to commuter status. I have on '07 Road King that I picked up rather cheap for more detail oriented work.
Jerry, is the new gen GW with the six-speed still terrible for this kind of work? The wheelbase is long and it’s heavy, but at least you have full control of the friction zone.
The 6 speed Wing can do very well at low speeds but is still a difficult bike to learn low speed techniques due to the overly sensitive throttle.
Been riding sports bikes for 30 years now. Can’t say I’ve had any problems with my 2023 DCT.
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned, not having owned a DCT does the ride mode make a difference? I know the throttle mapping changes if your in sport vs rain mode.
How can you burn through the Clutches on the DCT? I don't get it
I think you're safe on this one Jerry, I've heard of others burning the clutch out on DCT doing low speed training. You are doing a public service on this one.
Real data, very disappointed in Honda's response to this guys second dct clutch burn out
You finally answered my question about the Gold wing w/ DCT . I was thinking exactly what your saying. I think riders need put on their big boy pants and ride a manual one !
Sentiment as old as when we started cooking with fire.
The first motorcycles didn't even have clutch transmissions, they resembled modern day motorized bicycles, and when the first clutch transmissions and clutch levers appeared, old timer viewed them with disdain, thinking that they were solutions for problems that shouldn't exist with training, I mean why put cushion under the feet when when the skin can be conditioned to take the same abuse, am I right?
Me defending dct doesn't alleviate the fact that it still has room for improvement, and that is what makes the future exciting, not dystopian.
As a former motor instructor, you are absolutely correct!! People who have DCts try to argue with me all the time.. It takes everything I have not to set up tight cone exercises and say, "show me!"
Exactly. The negative comments are from people who have no idea how to really handle a motorcycle but claim they don't need any training since they can ride straight down the road without a problem.
@@motorman857 since retiring I have a new passion for people learning proper techniques.. It is nice not having to teach all A type personalities, but the "300,000 mile riders in a straight line" are plentiful 😂 love what you do brother!
I can concur, with a slightly different perspective. I ride a Yamaha Majesty scooter which have cvt, and low speed maneuvering is challenging to say the least.
I ride a wing and I'm 100% in agreement with you "they are not good at the slow stuff"
Spot on,I always thought this would be major problem, dct is great on small bikes or large scooters,not big machines
Hey motorman could you list 15 or 10 motorcycle cruisers that is best for long distance travel? From last to first order??
Love shifting my bike , one of the joys to riding a bike IMO
Also low speed manuevering voids the warranty? My goodness, that's probably the worst thing a motorcycle manufacturer has said in a long time. What's the value proposition for buying one then?
I own a 2022 Goldwing Tour Model. (Manual Clutch) Low speed maneuvering is very easy. It's a very well balanced bike due to its low center of gravity. Even when I ride with my wife, I have no problems at slow speed.
This video is about the DCT Wing not the manual model.
** There is nothing wrong with DCT it depends where you live and where you drive. When we go on holiday trips with friends, it is usually to the Alps/Pyrenees or any other European country... as long as there are mountains/colls! On these holiday trips, several DCT riders notice that they have a very difficult time on sharp and steep bends, one even had to drop his motorcycle. He traded in his GL1800-DCT motorcycle. He now drives with a GL1800/6 manual clutch. No problems 🙏 Ride safe. Love your videos. Thanks
Have u ever cruised long distances in a 5 speed bike ?
I have a 04 vrod
But on the highway it runs at 5k rpm
The limiter goes to 8k
Are some bikes just not made for highway ?
Yes agree Jerry would be good to have an option to up the RPM & then just steer. Great idea. Ps I do like the DCT for when you are in eg: seriously long traffic lines especially going up hills, and you then don't have to keep using the clutch all the time just to move a tiny bit which is so annoying in very slow traffic without it. Similar to scooters with CVT Auto trannies to creep forward a tiny bit.
Had one for 4 years and taught MSF advance class on mine.. just takes some new techniques and practice.
So you're saying the DCT wing is easier to master than a manual Wing?
@@lawnranger3432 Oh so your Weatherford's attorney?🤣In the above video all I said was the DCT wing takes a lot of practice to master. I did not say it couldn't be done. However, by practicing, you run the risk of burning out the clutches. I knew the DCT religious would whine like little....well you know.
I have zero problems with low speed handling on my DCT Wing. Yes took a few rides to learn the bikes behavior without a clutch but since it’s been great.
Send me a video of you doing a few 18ft turns with your DCT. It can be done, but it takes a lot of practice. Since you have zero problems with the DCT, IT should be easy for you. Now, if your saying you can cruise down the road without a problem, sure, you can do that on any bike even with zero skills.
Hi, is there any respond to that? I wonder a lot!
Spot on Jerry. I traded my 9-month old ‘21 DCT last June for several reasons, but near the top was horrible low speed handling. I put about 6k on that bike and was very comfortable with it, but just could not do 22’ (two and a half spot wide) u-turns or figure eights, even though I practiced at least once every couple of weeks at the local high school after hours.
Why would you sell a touring machine for low speed handling? Yes it is way more difficult to control the DCT in slow speeed manevures but these bikes are made for riding not playing in the parking.
@@vladalexandru5861 I did say "for several reasons," but apparently you didn't process that, so, not that I have to explain it you, here's the list more or less in order of priority:
1) Comfort - couldn't get comfortable on the thing.
2) Seat height - just a little tall for my stubby legs.
3) Low speed maneuvers - felt like I was going to drop it all the time.
4) DCT - I missed shifting on a bike.
5) Storage - saddlebags were too small
6) Distractions - ride modes, radio, GPS, etc.
7) The other half - my wife couldn't get comfortable either.
8) Maintenance - incredibly difficult to get to some maintenance items - there's nothing I can't fix on my Road King.
Is that enough, or should I list more???
No need to flame over this as each one looks for different things in a bike. Lucky we have where to choose from.
I wonder what happened to the term "each to their own"? @@AJTStuff and @vladalexandru5861
Year of the beard. Keep it
That's true with the DCT. But at the same time, the bike is wonderful at what it's built for, and I would say among the best at what it does. Of course slow speed handling is important, but it's also something that most riders don't have to worry about too much. Most everyone I know who has one loves the DCT. I don't quite understand it so would just stick to manual shifting.
Fully agree - gotta get the right bike for the right job!
Yes, difficult but can be done. I have no desire to get the DCT. I test rode a DCT and loved it, but soon as I went back to my clutch, I was convinced that the clutch is my favorite.
Thanks for sharing
3/20 7:35central
TRUTH, not a low speed maneuver period. 1st gear lunge, erratic as heck. Even walking speed is a crap shoot certainly can’t pick up your feet. I’ve had many near crash incidents starting from dead stop. Bike acceleration is amazing, crawling is indeed a “nightmare”. I have two prosthetic shoulders & didn’t feel able to move the old 2003. The walking forward & reverse keeps me riding a big bike. 🤷
I've spent a lot of time practicing low speed maneuvers on a dct wing. I have videos showing this on TH-cam. I don't use the brake so I haven't had any issues with the clutch. It is hard to manage speed, no question!
Even with a car, low speed behavior of a DCT transmission leaves something to be desired. I know. I've owned one for several years. I've read from various sources that you shouldn't creep along slowly in traffic but it wears out the clutches prematurely.
How do you know if it's you or the bike? I just bought myself a 1990 Honda goldwing GL 1500. I've been riding bike since I was 12 years old I'm 49 now. This is the first Gold Wing I've ever owned.and I have to admit it kind of scares me at low speed.
Thanks Motorman.
While there might be a few benefits of a DCT motorcycle for a niche population, I could never understand why anyone else would ever want it. A big part of the enjoyment of motorcycling is shifting so you feel engaged with your machine. This is why I think a quick shifter mechanism was a smart addition to some of the newer bikes. I considered a new Goldwing standard, like the one in this video but you can ONLY get it in DCT. That bike is completely crossed off of my list now.
it is a labor saver both mental and physical, and the transmission always picks the right gear, and this automatic transmission, like in a car, is a small luxury that is hard to reverse once one becomes accustomed to it: moreover, one can shift manually if one so chooses, and it simply becomes an automatic clutch. Whatever joys there may be with flipping ones left toes and playing with the clutch become replaced by other things.
It’s great that Honda innovated the type of transmission which has alleviated the burden of the classic motorcycle design, for you and your niche. The vast majority of motorcyclists not only enjoy but also perpetually look forward to classic motorcycle ergonomics 😎
@@NervedrazThe ergonomics are excellent. Moreover, automatic transmissions are great to get more people on a bike as it reduces the learning curve quite a bit, especially for people who have never shifted a car. Aside from that, like anything which becomes automated (ever try hand crank starting a Model T? Are there any cars with manual windows and locks anymore? Monthly bills are being paid automatically...even an alarm clock is automation) as a general rule, once people get fully accustomed to it, going back to manually doing the same thing becomes tedious, and for those who have never done it, it becomes a barrier.
I suspected that slow maneuvers without clutch assistance would be an issue.
I rarely need low speed handling. I prefer the convenience of the DCT otherwise. Ain't often I need to maneuver tight circles around obstacles so it's irrelevant to me.
Yeah, I've got the DCT. It's not great in the parking lot, but it's workable once you get used to it-I wouldn't call it a nightmare. Arthritis in the left hand due to previous injury, so… it's the best fit for me these days. I do miss the clutch sometimes.
I have been biking for 50 years and I don't miss the clutch or gear changing a bit.
Don't know if I'd go as far to say DON"T BUY a Goldwing. I do plenty of low speed manuevers daily....always under 18ft and in 2 years I've never had a DCT transmission issue. I'd imagine anyone entering competitions wouldn't use one for that purpose. I've owned several Harley Baggers and loved ALL of them but IMHO and "my opinion only" the Goldwing is a superior machine for everything except 100% consistently tight u turns from a novice rider.
Isn't that the same problem with a scooter? You have to ride the rear brake as opposed to the clutch
You're right about the low speed handling, it's terrible and I hate that the foot brake is linked to the front brake. If it were my bike, I'd block off that link. There's no way to smooth it out, no matter how much I try. Other than the the jerky slow speed handling, it's a nice bike. I would never buy one.
I have both the Honda 21 DCT and HD Road King 22. It takes time to master slow turns on the DCT but the name of the game is to let a Honda computer managed the throttle controls not the driver of the bike. Now you know as much as I do that Honda was not going to sale these bikes in the US without good planning again let the bike speed control computer work and keep practicing and maintain the trust in the system. By the way I love your show and all the positive bike info.
I test rode everything out there. I won’t buy a DCT. This is the reason why. They can’t handle at low speeds. I understand they handle fine on the road, but everything does that. I want mine to handle in difficult situations as well as the easy ones.
This is false. I bought a 2022 Rebel 1100 DCT since October shortly after completing the MSF course. Though I only have 950 miles on it (thanks to this prolonged period of cold weather in Vegas), I find they handle just fine on the road AND at low speeds. Granted I practiced low speed maneuvers A LOT in an empty parking lot the first few days of owning the bike. But whether you have a manual or DCT, isn't practice supposed to be the key anyway?
I'll admit even I had doubts about getting DCT at first. But the more I ride the Rebel, the more humorous I find all this bellyaching among traditional motorcycle riders towards anything DCT.
DCT makes sense for highway cruising, but it’s definitely not the best technology for slow speed parking lot maneuvers. It’s kinda like a enormous luxury scooter/moped for highways. I’ll choose manual clutch over DCT any day.
The Gold Wing DCT is a huge learning curve for slow speed, but the Africa Twin DCT is amazing but still takes a while. my guess is the foot peg clearance for leaning and rear brake pressure?. just saying.
I owned the Africa Twin DCT before I bought the GW. The Africa Twin was great, but too tall for me, I had to have it lowered. The GW is easier to handle. I am 5'10". I now wish I kept the AT as an alternate. It's a great bike.
Viewers get so butt hurt on both sides of this topic. I agree, and there is no arguing, a manual transmission is much easier to manage at slow speeds. I’ve owned both versions and settled on the manual.
DCT is nice on the highway. Forget it below 15 mph.
When you are playing pylon games with a DCT, put it in manual mode, which will keep the bike in the same gear while doing the maneuvers. When you are done with the pylon games and get back to regular normal everyday riding, put it back into automatic. I haven't come upon too many pylon loop dee loops out on the roadways to tell you the truth.
DCT or 737max problems is for me the same. Too much computers. Less electricity more chrome and driving . That's all. Never been a friend of the computerized bikes and cars. That Slowspeed-Problem ist also notable on other comp vehicles, slow speed, high-speed curves.... Thanks Jerry
Good point about high speed curves. It took me about a year to learn that you have to get used to downshifting more with that paddle shifter on the DCT. The automatic mode does not use engine braking enough by itself. Fortunately you can use the paddle shifter at any time without leaving the automatic mode.
I had to laugh at all the winners who love to live their bikes. God forbid anyone say anything negative. If you like the lack of control you loose without the clutch for the convenience of not having to shot gears thats fine but stop trying to convince everyone else that it is worth it. I sold mine because you don’t have the added control that a clutch gives you when maneuvering at slow speed. Yes you can work around it but that does not change the fact that not having a clutch reduces control. It is not about learning to ride the bike or rider skill. It is just a simple fact. You can ride a bike by only putting one foot down if you are too short but it is safer if you can get both feet down. It is the same thing with the clutch. They could have but a first gear clutch activation on the bike instead of the torque converter or what ever it is. My experience was watching my wife drive into the side of a car that cut her off because while she was reaching for the front break the bike just kept speeding up. Even with the break on the bike kept moving. I stopped short in the middle of the road in front of her watching with the bike stopped. I naturally had a hand full of clutch and a hand full of front break. That is naturally what one does. The throttle was open enough for the motor to be racing. On a dct I might have still been moving or I would not have been stopping so short. When you grab a hand full of front breaks in a panic stop you don’t worry about the throttle because you have the clutch in the other hand. It is just that simple.
@@lawnranger3432 We are talking about slow speed panic/quick stops like one might do in a parking lot. If you are moving along at speed you would likely have both feet up on the pegs and then the issue is too much rear or foot break. Linked foot breaks help this but my point is most people naturally would use both breaks if they had their feet up as you would while riding. In a parking lot on a big heavy bike most people naturally take both feet off the pegs preparing to stop and the same goes for starting out. The dct requires you to pay closer attention to what is going on around you and where you intend on going. That is all fine but it is not an improvement. The dct is an improvement while moving and if you really really like that then you are willing to deal with the changes you need to make at slow speeds but it is a compromise not an improvement. Look how many guys admit to just using the forward and reveres to get around in a parking lot. The dct allows for riders that do not know how to shift gears or start out to get on the bike and ride but it comes with a price on an 800 lbs bike.
They need a third clutch to manually engage the engine and transmission. That would allow low speed handling using your existing techniques. Keeping the current DCT for shifting while on the move with those clutches operating on a disk on the output side of the new, third clutch.
It is more mechanically complex than your proposals but requires the driver to learn no skills unique to the GW.
Heard the DCT has an option to put the transmission in manual mode for ease of slow speed maneuvers …have you seen/heard this?
That won't work. If you put the bike in manual mode and 3rd gear, it will still start off in 1st gear.
I thought the 500cc bike that looks like gw but smaller was cool looking bike I didn't get it because it didn't have clutch......like the scooters, but now I wonder how well the scooters handle at slow speed
I have the Africa Twin DCT, I agree that in very slow manœuvres the manual clutch is better, but as soon as you go faster than 3km/h, DCT is really cool, especially on twisty mountain roads. Not having to care for gear changing frees up a little bit of your attention that you reallocate to better chose your track. All in all, I’m faster, safer and more relaxed with the DCT. Aldo I have been riding manual for 40 years.
Honda has said taking slow speed courses voids the warranty if there is ever a problem with the transmission
Can you prove that charles?
Did Honda put out a bulletin to all owners to that effect?
I believe it's that Honda warranty does not cover "premature clutch failure". So.....I guess this can only ever happen on a DCT and never on a manual.🙄
The attempts to belittle folks about buying a DCT just because they (I) supposedly can't shift are hilarious.
Here ya go th-cam.com/video/MJHPKIOKdIU/w-d-xo.html I didn't belittle anyone. I presented the facts.
Probably should try using other drive modes for slow speed riding i.e. “RAIN” or “ECONO”.. The DCT is way less jumpy in these modes.. however there are many more positives than negatives when deciding to purchase a WING i.e. Reliability, comfort etc.
I've tried all the modes. It is still very difficult to modulate the throttle against the brake. It can be done as I showed, but will take a lot of practice. I've heard from riders who say they are buying a dct Wing because they have difficulties mastering the friction zone on a manual clutch and they believe it will be easier with a DCT. I tell them it's the opposite. The DCT is much harder to master at low speeds than clutch and throttle. Yes, the Wing is a fine touring bike but it's low speed maneuverability is awful.
Hi, boss) it depends of year of DCT. After 2020 honda did a great job and improved SW at low speed. So now it behaves perfectly IMHO. Just try brand new DCT GL1800 or not older than 2021. It's day and night difference belive me.🤠
Well bring it around to the class. I'd love to try it.
Im starting a new series.."Comments from a Pro"...for all the "experts" that will disagree with a certified master instructor.
This had been corrected on the new DCT, Jerry. I think you should update your video.
Sweet beans! Nice beard 👍😁