Monacor SPH 165 | Test and Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2019
- Test of this DIY driver mostly found outside of North America. It may look cheap, but seems to perform reasonably well, although was a bit of a pain to work with in Xsim. Looks aside, performance was better than most at this ~$50 range, but there are better that also have the looks to back it up.
If you want to download the measurement files to simulate with before you purchase, or just for fun, check here: www.dropbox.com/sh/j6jiieo8u7...
![USAB Showcase: CANADA vs USA [OFFICIAL STREAM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m9Cz3xsdDgc/mqdefault.jpg)
Inductance is pretty high.
Corrado VRz actually yes and I meant to say that but forgot. I think that was some of the XO trouble I was having.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Yes, and you can see it in the rise in the impedance curve and how the response drops a bit before the breakup. :)
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Good afternoon Mr. I have little request for you. Please, if you have the opportunity, made test small woofer Dayton Audio cf120-4. Thank you so much!
Руфат Ширалиев I don’t have that one, but if I come across it I’ll do a video for sure.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Thank you so much Mr.! You are a very neat Master! Your speaker enclosures are very neat, not everyone can work so neatly! You should spend time only on high-quality speakers, because a lot of effort and time is spent on the production of speakers. Therefore, from time to time I write you models of outstanding speakers. Thank you very much again! And be very careful when working with a circular saw. She is very dangerous! Have a good day!!!
I hope you are planning more content soon as I love to watch your videos. Very inspiring and useful in learning or refreshing DIY speaker design.
monacor makes pretty good cheap/mid priced speakers
amazing video and analysis, some great value Monacor drivers are SPH-175HQ and SPH-170 but they need a bigger box, but they give similar bang for the buck as the SB acoustic drivers imo. Thank you for these kick ass speaker building videos, and you really get to the meat of whats important in great detail.
Excellent review, as usual.
Thanks for this. Monacor sells a drop-in replacement for my Mission 732 and I was on the fence about ordering some.
great vid
thank you for these interesting topics
Nice review.
I've always liked monacor drivers. They are affordable, they have a large range of speakers for lots of applications and quality control seems to be really good.
This one looks indeed quite rough and simple, but they do have much sleeker looking units (kevlar units with phase cones and cast frames, carbon fibre cones etc)
It is cool to see something we can't buy over here. That 1299 on the bench is quite the beast!
I´m using two Monacor SPH-174KE as replacement mid-drivers in my 3way speakers, they look and sound amazing ... got them like 60€ / pair.. awesome.
Thank you for the videos. Like the content and the laid back style.
If you are looking for suggestions, I am very curious about Faital Pro 5FE120 and Hivi RT1C.
Thank you for your job
Thankyou so much for the videos.
I think the optimal way to use a 6" in an active system.
Compression tweeter of 2Khz and 200 to 400Hz with a 10, 12 or 15 inch wofer
Another great video, any progress on that 3way you were working on awhile ago ?
Would love to see more European driver tests from manufacturers such as Scanspeak, Vifa, Seas, Pearless, Morel, Audax etc. Of course would be most interested in your views of the following Scanspeak 18W 8545 (classics) alongside the Scanspeak 2905/990000, my current drivers. That was a tricky crossover!
MrFrobbo can you test the famous scan Speak RingRadiator?
Check out bishopsound, their 18" is really good
I have never considered Monacor given their relatively high price tag compared to the compatition from the likes of Peerless, ScanSpeak, DaytonAudio, SB and etc. For the crossover I'd advise using a RLC network in parallel with the woofer to combat the baffle step. This allows for a smaller series inductor in the 2nd order low-pass filter which helps to bring up the mid-range a bit.
Thanks a lot for the videos you make. I really like how thorough you are and all the technical details. Not many youtube channels out there that even come close to what you do :) I remember Monacor as a mid level car speaker brand from when I was young (about 20 years ago). It's not a big brand, not even in Europe. However, I have a question for you: When you test all these various speakers, do you make a new box for each one? Or do you have a collection of various boxes and just pick one that comes close to the volume you want to try it in? What about the baffle and hole diameter, I assume every driver is different? Must be a lot of work if you have to cut/route the hole for each driver you review...?
Torgeir Fredriksen hey thanks for the kind words. Yes I build a new test box every time based on what is suitable for the driver under test. Sometimes I can reuse a box, but these boxes don’t take all that long to build. They don’t have to look good so I just nail them together real quick.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Wow, "nail them together real quick", I bet not many viewers realize all the work behind this, not to forget the tedious measurements and eventually editing the results. Big thumbs up for your work !!!
Torgeir Fredriksen thanks for the recognition. It is a lot to end up with 10 mins of video. But there is some enjoyment I get out of it or I wouldn’t be doing it.
Hey found your channel about a week ago and have watched every video! great info!. Hey just wondering what you think of AMT drivers? eg the Dayton Audio AMT3 or similar. THANKS!!!!!
txylxr hey thanks. Can’t say I’m a big fan of AMT but I’ve also got very little experience with them. They don’t seem to solve any problem or offer any advantage to other driver types.
This driver really needs a Zobel impedance Filter to be easy on crossover design.
I did not expect hem to match that good.
Monacor is a great brand for budget builds. They mostly make drivers for PA applications, and that's why the aesthetics aren't top priority. But on the upside you get no BS constuction with consistent quality.
Hi 👋 Mr. Cristian, Monacor made more type speakers, budget and high quality, High-End level speakers..Look this model.. This perfect 6.5" speaker have very high quality basket and membrane, true High-End woofer! 👍 Look: th-cam.com/video/qiMD56LTmyQ/w-d-xo.html
Even though North Americans are not going to buy this it's still interesting to see what they're selling in europe. But yeah, a stamped basket driver for 50 euros would be kooky given the choices we have here.
hi bro that was a fantastic video im new to this can you help i have a nad 3130 will these speakers suit and what kind of XO and tweeter would match THANKS
Your tests and measures are correct and useful, there's one thing though I would like to point out to you.
This driver is clearly designed and intended to use as a woofer (and as such it is quite a good one). It would perform briliantly in a 3way system, and -if carefully filtered with a 3rd order- even could perform nice in a 2 way system. However, you keep mentioning the cone breakup at 2500+ as being a downside. This kind of cone breakup is typical for almost any woofer of this size and is not relevant when you filter the speaker at a proper frequency (for this speaker I would recomend 1800Hz in a 2-way and 650 Hz in a 3-way).
To match up a speaker of this size in a 2-way while keeping a good phase and energy response at vertical angles (the importance of which is heavily underestimated) you need a tweeter that can match up at a relatively low frequency (typically a horn would be ideal).
Another thing you should mention is that this speaker is very suitable for a BL horn or transmission line (Qts, rigid cone, high BxL).
I agree with you that a gasket on the front is ugly. However you will need it when you mount the speker from behind (which is clearly the primary intended use). Of course, when you mount it frontside you could make use of a ring cover to get a nice look.
htrawa thanks. I still feel the 2500hz break up is a problem, especially at 1800hz. XOers aren’t brick walls. You hear stuff well beyond the XO point. And it’s pretty small for a woofer in a 3 way in my opinion. It can be used that way, but I’d be more inclined to use a bigger woofer.
Agree it’s possible to cover the gasket and have done this on a lot of eminence woofers. But it’s an extra hassle most people don’t want. Rear mounting has its challenges too.
it pairs well with their silk dome tweeters ... which crossover fq is at 2,500 hz :)
When are you making new videos. There is no one in youtube world who’s like you immense talent and diy centric. Missing you
Hey thanks for the great comment. I wish I could be back at it, and planned to be by now. Life has been extremely busy and I haven’t been able to focus on this hobby. I hope soon. Thank you!
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers I don’t mind paying 200$ per year to see your videos
Others channels not my needs I need DIY centric
@@anandshah71 I appreciate that, but I got to be able to produce the content. 🙂
Yeah I think you would spend the money you save in added xo parts, nice review.
I have heard the SPH-165KEP (not this but same size) in a TL with 6/6db to a SS tweeter. The coil was 0,33mh. It was surprising, but KEP is also a different driver.
How do you feel about testing the IMG Stageline SP-6/100 Pro Speakers? Those sound pretty good I think. IMG Stageline is the "PA" sub company of Monacor and some party are quite nice to listen to
Frederik Pöppel never heard of them but if I was given the opportunity I’d happily do it.
Hello Friend!
I am undecided whether to enter the SB17NRX2C35-4 or the SB13PFCR25-8.
It will be used as a medium, in a 3-way box.
The bass I will make a piped box with SB20PFCR30-8 or
SB23NRXS45-4.
What is the most correct way?
Thanks.
Them puppies have a good size motor structure. Is that cone polypropylene?
You should test the Silver Flute series drivers. I have a pair of 6.5" woofers in 4 ohm. The cones are made from wool, but you'd never guess that. The cone is very light and stiff. I think they would make awesome bookshelf speakers, but you could build towers with them as well. They come in 5 1/4", 6.5", and 8" in 4 and 8 ohm versions. They are really inexpensive for the quality, at least that's how they appear to be to me without being able to test them or build cabinets for them. Please give them a shot!
ken cohagen actually I’ve used them a fair bit and have a new pair of the 8” here. I’ll try and give them a video sometime in the future.
Impulse Audio that would be great! I really want to do something with mine. I just don't know what yet. A big problem for me is I don't have any woodworking tools, yet. But I found a guy who does and he'll help me cut the MDF to size. From there I can put it together at home, I think. Let me know when you do something with the 8's. I thought about using a pair as woofers, and the 6.5's as midwoofers. I'm not sure how that would work out though. I also have a pair of old Peerless dome mods in great shape and matching tweeters I want to do something with, so I need a good woofer section. I might use the 6.5's as a midwoofer and something else as a built in subwoofer. Anyway, thanks for the reply!
Sample 2 has some anechoic chicken distortion at 3.5kHz
eug3nius haha totally missed that problem in the response!
What do you think of AMT tweeters?
Do you have any list of drivers suitable for outdoors? I want to build some outdoor speakers but am hitting a wall on the drivers. I assume rubber surrounds and plastic cones, but is there anything else to consider?
cardiobroker some manufacturers will list them as suitable for outdoors. You’re on the right track for sure. Poly or plastic cones and rubber surrounds. No phase plus, only a dust cap. Anything outdoor use specific is what I’d look for.
Have you worked with any silver Flute woofers from Madisound? I've got a pair of 6.5" 4 ohm woofers and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. I'm thinking of. 4way design using them as midwoofers. I could really use some help!
ken cohagen yes I have. I’ve used the 6.5 and the 8. Fine drivers really, kind of do everything well, but nothing exceptional. Midwoofs in a 4 way is an interesting idea. Not many people do 4 ways. But I think they’d be fine that way. 4 ways are tricky so be careful!
May | suggest testing SPH-300CTC? I can't design the bass reflex box from 3 years (finally I left it in a garage), but I still believe that it could be a very good project.
The problem is power endurance. Whatever I do (and made a few boxes), power endurance drops well above the tuning frequency.
Jakub Duda Id test it but don’t have a pair. Once I get back to the channel I’ll be testing other drivers to see what’s good.
Monacor, and another German brand (Visaton) are definately some of my favorite brands for drivers. I like the "retro"/classic appearance of them and their affordable price. Not gaudy or fancy, but rugged and old school.
Maybe you could review Visaton next, like the W...S series woofers or the BG13p or BG17, cheap but good fullranges/midranges...
You ver try the bg13,,,?
TIW200XS... One of the best woofers ever.
@@MS-ug3gm
Indeed.
@@MrChopemup
BG13, combined with TIW200... that's my plan. Not sure yet though. In simulation it works well
@@westelaudio943 B200 is better choice for full range speaker.
I want to replace two12” woofers of my Pioneers S 710 by Monacor , hope that sounds ok
I would like to see you test a Volt drive unit. These are high end British drive units
Mark Holder ohhh those are expensive. Nice looking though.
Yeah, nothing to get very excited about on this side of the pond. One thing the distortions below 150Hz are in the same level as midband and freq resp lacks the usual 1.4k dip from cone-surround interaction. I bet no Cu or alu shorting ring in the motor, so Le is rather high. X-O simulations behaviour is like many other similar drivers, 2k would be my choice if the baffle step is taken into account.
Looks like a Goldwood GW-6PC-8 6-1/2" Heavy Duty Woofer 8 Ohm cone with a slightly different dust cap but the rest of it is different.
Off topic but could you explain why I don't see dual driver subwoofers out there except small subs that may have dual small drivers? I would think if your wanting to build a powerul sub 2 12" would work great if enough to amp is there to push 2 such as a bash 300 to 500w would be sufficient. Also great content I watch yours and other videos all the time absorbing everything I can because I've been wanting to delving into doing some builds without wasting money just replacing possibly wrong drivers an crossing my fingers and end up with a $200+ terd and have learned alot and am going to buy some mandatory minimum equipment and try and apply some technics I'm capable of, sorry for babbling, you explain stuff so it's easier to understand vs making my head spin. Thanks!
Aaron Waltz probably due to cost and impedance matching. Personally I agree with you that two drivers in one cab is a good idea. Especially if the drivers are on opposite sides of the enclosure, then the cab will be quite stable. Because most subs are 4ohm, running them parallel means a 2 ohm load which is hard to find an amp that will work. And it doubles the cost of your project. So most people just build with a single driver.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers yeah that'd be cool, I figured if took (2) 4ohm dvc subs each wired parallel to get 2 ohm then wire the 2 subs together in series I think that would be 4ohm final impedance if I have my figures right? Car audio sub manufacturers seem to have the sub science down and there's so many choices on impedance and performance styles and levels, kinda thinking of an flat top triangle with drivers on the slopes with port(s) and plate on opposite faces? Should be quite stable? Feel free to try it so u can tell if it works! Lol, But thanks for the reply appriciate it. Again Great content!
Aaron Waltz yup you have the impedance figured. That should work no problem.
Do you do design work for individuals? What do you charge to design a crossover for a speaker? I can mail you the drivers for testing.
Sorry I don’t. I just don’t have the time available. Thanks though.
Quick question : when you make a VAS measurement in a sealed box, do you account for the speaker volume when entering the box volume in DATS ? If yes, how do you measure this volume ?
didierleclerc66 that’s a good question. Yes, a little bit. I estimate the volume of the driver and take it off the box volume. But I err on the side of less driver volume. Usually only 250ml or so at the most. There isn’t much too them. Bigger drivers I might use 500ml.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakersThanks for your quick reply. I could not find a proper answer to that. Might ask the question directly to Dayton Audio. At least I would remove the cone volume (how much air it contains, hard to measure, I'd say cone diameter x cone depth ÷ 2) + the magnet volume and a little bit more for the basket.
didierleclerc66 I generally visualize it. I visualize a 500ml or 250ml drink size. Honestly, it’s not going to make or break a speaker so I don’t get too hung up on it.
hi.i would you agree that a 1st order crossover in a 3way speaker needs a zobel network on the woofer is a must....but on a 2nd order crossover not so much? and another thing would you say a zobel network will effect the frequency response when i use my rta? does it realy make a difference in sound? i dont have xsim ...i do my speakers using only my rta which helps with phase and cutting points ...thx man .
In general yes you’ll need some impedance control (zobel) on a first order XO and not on a second order. It will affect the sound because it affects the XO. On its own it’ll do nothing.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thx man
hi . I heard some people Claiming a use of 1 really good resistor In series to Attenuate a tweeter or midrange gave them a better result in terms of sound insted of using l-pad...i.e one in series and one in parallel.is so ? i wonder is the right way would be to place it before the crossover ? or after? i.e closer to the speaker.....bc if its close to the seaker i will have to change the value of the caps and coils. what wold be your opinion on the subject? thx a lot.
Well, I would say the best is the resistor combination that attenuates the tweeter properly. I don’t agree that a single resistor is better than an Lpad. There’s no basis for this. Sometimes the XO responds better to a resistor before the XO. But it just depends. If you have a nice sounding speaker and just want to shave a bit off the tweeter, then put the resistor in front to avoid changing the impedance profile of the load the XO sees.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thx man you are the best.
nice for the review of cheaper drivers... personnaly i wouldnt pay 5$ for this driver hehe better with a cheap dedicated midrange and a cheap woofer in a 3way
CSD really shows the drivers true nature..
and ushers have mostly -60db 3rd order all the way
lower price driver reviews will clearly get you more views.. we are all looking for the top cheaper driver put the retail price of the driver in the title also... would love a review of new fountek 2inch mid-high and older usher drivers
IMD distortion test would be interesting too..
lex Tr3 well $5 is maybe a bit harsh since it performs half decent, but ya not my cup of tea either.
You think cheap drivers will get more views? Or less, I’m not sure what you mean. I would think people find the expensive stuff more interesting. But maybe not.
cool
Check out Visaton If you can get them there. They ar the number one choise for meny german diy Speaker builders. They have low,mid and high end drivers tweeters ribbons horns !!!
visation is brand of monacor
@@sinonistoyemi6327 since when?
@@staLkerhu dunno but visaton, celestion, img stageline are manufactured by monacor in germany
Not a good looking woofer? Dude, it is a sexy beast!
Fair enough 🙂
Try test monacor dt 254 tweeter
Hope you are OK. Its been 4 months since your last posting. I think I'll avoid this driver, as its moderate efficiency and that 600Hz 3rd order is going to be audible.
I am starting up a new project that could be pretty fun to build this summer. bottom end 2x JBL 2241j 18" per channel, low to 65Hz. Next, Tad TL-1602 16" as mid-bass 65hz to 500Hz. Above 500, Inlow Paper Tractrix horns, at 2" throat, driven by BMS 4562nd, 2-way 2" compression driver. I still need to engineer a new phase correct passive x-over for the BMS. The other pass bands are 4th L-R active line level, for tri-amplification.
Jennifer WhiteWolf oh ya I’m ok. Just to busy with life stuff at the moment. I hope to get a video soon, but it’s not looking good for the next while. Doing an addition on the house.
hi i hear some good i.e realy good speakers like 4way using only 6db crossovers ...they realy sound natural and i guess they are using zobel network on the woofers and mids i was wondering how can they protect the tweeter from damage with only a capacitor ? i know they use l pad just to stay even but thats not protection ....do you have idea ? notch filter? zobel? how??? thx man
An Lpad does change the impedance actually. And the capacitor prevents low frequencies. No problem using a cap and Lpad for a tweeter high pass.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers sorry my friend i dont get it , l-pad is just a way to to take down the tweeter by 2 or 3 db to match the midrange level ,as you explaind ,without infulancing any thing else,so how does it add protection to the tweeter from mid frequencies from reaching its 1 inch dome? please try to elaborate on this.bc my tweeters are like ...800$ a pair, i wouldnt wanna burn them.thx a bunch.
i hope we are talking about the same thing.....l pad for the tweeter not zobel? just 1resistor in series and 1 in paralell and a cap lets say 3 octaves higer then the fs point
thx
in this case its a tweeter with a3.3 dc resistance which needs a 1ohm and 8ohm to reduce 3db while keeping the resistance the same.
@@user-tk1tf8wq1s what I mean is the Lpad will flatten the impedance, which means the cap can properly protect the tweeter at lower frequencies. Without it, the cap is ineffective around the resonance frequency of the tweeter.
Monacor makes good drivers. But check out ( Visaton ) drivers there much better. Both companys ar german but i dont know for monacor but Visaton makes there drivers in there own factory in germany.
@@hjbhbjbjbjbjbjbbuguggugug6732 Like you 😅 hehehe no realy he got the one of the cheapest drivers from monacor. They have ones for 200 us Dollars and more for one single Driver.
@@h-jg7730 been nice to see the sph165cp carbonfibre or the 165kep kevlar drivers. I've got some 165cp to us on a project an a fountek ribbon.
i have dussun V8i + xonar audience ST .homemade transmission line and inside is visaton W 200 S+fountek neox2 (and china crossover improved with jantzen superior caps . For this price (1pc visaton W200s is 55 dolars ??)) this drivers is unreal sound .but needs enough time to play when is new .AS they are new and they play miserable.I think they deserve to be tested (impulse audio _P) else I think they have a little hard sound
Hallo Mr.More time no news about you,no new videos..Are you okay?
Руфат Ширалиев ya sorry. Life is just a little nuts at the moment. I hope to do a video at the end of the month.
manufacturer says 33hz you measured 55hz? whats up with that?
j a 33hz Fs for a 6” woofer 😑 Very possible is lower than the 55hz I got, but 33hz is out of the question.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers can this be tuned slightly lower to 40hz instead of the 45hz tuning in your video?
j yes but bass will be less. Depends on your needs. SPL and power handling or extension.
Quel est le logiciel de simulation de crossover ? Merci
I think you asked “is this a logical crossover simulation?” Yes it is. It’s not that easy to work with though.
Sorry my French is much worse than most Canadians. I need to brush up.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers sorry my english is not better than your french i guess. just wanted to know what is your crossover simulation software? Thank you
@@mikreference3a130 oh very sorry. It is Xsim by Bill Waslo. I also use Sound Easy for the measurements.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers thank you very much.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers I downloaded the software, it is very quick to draw a diagram, however, how to set the parameters of our speaker as well as the values of our components? Thank you in advance.
Resembles a car audio driver
Trey Horn how do you figure that?
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Not impedance wise, just the stamped frame and vented pole as well as the huge motor. Looks like they measured really well..
Seems like they could be run in series and be pro car audio gear
Trey Horn gotcha.
looks like you stopped making video a year ago (:
Yes but I’m trying to get back at it. Hold tight :)
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers If you are looking for a subject, you could talk about your inwall setup for your home cinema ( Eminence delta 10A and SEOS12 with Denovo DNA360) and talk about the crossover you did. Maybe some alternative if some part get difficult to get.
@@yvesinformel221 I have wanted to cover that project (it sounds so good). I have a ceiling project I’m doing right now and I’m going to cover that. Not super technical but should help some people.
Dayton that you most likes and use, maby looks Nice, but they don't perform as well as the european speakers. Many of them are uset in highend speakers you can buy, because they sound and perform Better.
Michael Augard oh I’m not a fan of Dayton in general. I like a few of their models. I’ve said plenty of bad about them on this channel though. I’d love to try a Monacor that I like, but this one wasnt great.
need a counter for how many times you say it’s ugly 😆
You have used a speaker with Fs 50 Hz and Qts 0.28 This gives insane F/Q= 178. This number _requires_ a port. Otherwise FR is far from an ideal.
I would model it in SoundEasy first then see what works best for my needs. For this video I was only testing it’s frequency response and stuff, the box being ported or sealed doesn’t matter for this. I use sealed so we can see how the driver responds to being enclosed. I would agree this driver probably prefers a large vented cabinet like a floor standing speaker. That’s something that works against it in my opinion. Who wants a large floor stand speaker for a single 6” woofer. Doesn’t make much sense.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Ah.. I've got this. Thanks
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers "Who wants a large floor stand speaker for a single 6” woofer"
Ummm... me, because I don't want to build a 3 way speaker, and an 8" woofer is a bad choice for 2 way speakers (in most case).
@@staLkerhu ok that’s fair. I’d probably still choose a driver that works in a smaller cabinet so I have more space in my house, but you’re welcome to it. This driver might work well for you.
if you use grills.. lol
r. grambo yup, paper bag them things 🤣
A freq response graph only tells us how loud it is at various frequencies. A freq response graph says nothing about sound quality. I was waiting for you to play music through it and tell us what it sounds like.
Dream Diction this doesn’t work as easily as people think because I’d have to design and entire speaker to be able to say that, and the sound quality will depend on the success of the design. Stating the sound quality of a finished speaker is much easier because it’s a finished product that is intended to be listened to. The raw driver can be implemented so many different ways it is not quite fair to say how it sounds subjectively.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Monacor also make a 50 watt per channel (class A/B) stereo amplifier with tone controls (Monaor SA-100) for only $100. You could make a finished Monacor speaker and make a video testing it with he Monacor amp as a good budget price Hi-Fi.
/watch?v=QNzMOzdYRfo
Dream Diction Unfortunately I’m not prepared to do that with these drivers. I won’t be doing anymore with them. Maybe give them away.
Test Monacor sph135kep