DIY Midrange | Scanspeak 15M/4624g00 Test and Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- Test of Scanspeak 15M discovery line midrange driver. Overall it is a good performer with really high sensitivity, low harmonic distortion, but average CSD and consistency.
To download the measurements frd and zma files, go here: www.dropbox.com/sh/j6jiieo8u7... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Beatiful review, bravo. The have a 4 of this driver, i agree with you, hi end midrange!
Good video, Ryan. These driver tests are always interesting.
Muy buen video. Se aprende mucho y se ve un nivel muy profesional! Sigue enseñandonos!
You’ve got a very nice review. 👍🏼
Great review
Great video, thanks!
Great vid
The Revelator midranges are well known for their sliced paper cone technology. The slices are filled with damping glue, which dramatically reduces break-up modes in the diaphragm.
Yes I’ve heard them but never used them. They sound great.
Great vid. Would be nice if in the future you got your hands on the seas and sb accoustics competitors (seas MCA12RC/MCA15RCY and sb12mnrx25-4) im pretty sure alot of ppl are curious how the scandinavians stack up against each other.
у обновлённой sb12mnrx2-25 отличный график
Great video thanks for taking the time - very informative,Dayton have a new fabric 2” reference soft dome mid - just wondered if it’s on the Agenda for you to review as it’s got quite a low price and great specs (I’m considering using it) also Sb acoustics are releasing a 2.5” soft dome for 2019 ?
MARK BRISLEN the SB unit really has me interested, but I haven’t looked into the Dayton. Neither are on my list though. I’d be willing to test the Dayton if you can convince them to send me a pair :D
Just want to start off by saying thank you so much for making these videos, they have been very informative and have inspired me to do more measuring and research with my speaker building. I would like to know how you determine the amount of power you are putting into the driver when doing the frequency response measurements. I measured a single driver for the first time in a baffle using a Umik-1 and REW but I just set the output to 75 dB with pink noise because I can't figure out how to measure how much power the driver is receiving. Thank you for any insight!
Hi Tim. Honestly, it's not all that necessary to get the power input right. What is most important is to keep it the same every time. For myself, because I test speakers and put the results on youtube, I use a digital multi meter and set the output until I get 2.8V on the multi meter. Then I keep my setting fixed and never change them. I just check with the multi meter every couple of months to make sure nothing has changed. There's no reason you have to do this to design a speaker though. A speaker can be designed with any SPL, you just won't know the true sensitivity.
Is that a B&C or Faital woofer at 5:30? Are we going to see a test review of that too? :) As always, great work and thank you!
Corrado VRz thats actually a celestion coaxial from a project idea that didnt go anywhere. I only have one but maybe Ill do a video on it if I have time in the future. Thanks for watching.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Celestion also uses those frames.
Hey Ryan - I just had a question about your outside measurements - in this video and the last on the graphs you show for your outside sweeps the lower response (under 500hz) is quite smooth. Is this because your measuring outside and you don't get room reflections or do you combine your near and far sweeps to get that result?
Derek Jarman it is a couple things. First is that these are reflection free measurements. Anechoic. So if you compare to people who measure in their rooms and dont know how to isolate the reflections then mine will be much smoother. Second is that way down below 500hz most drivers are very pistonic and have a smooth linear response. The last thing is that at low frequencies there are fewer and fewer data points. Its a form of unwanted smoothing. Going outside allows me to extend my gate time (blocking reflections from the measurements) all the way to 55hz. This means there is a data point every 55hz. Which is why the data isnt very useful below 110hz. In my shop this is more like 150hz so the data isnt useful below 300hz. And if you compare to people who measure indoors they often use a gate F of about 300hz therefore not useful below about 600hz! This is why I take the time to measure outdoors if the driver will be used below 300hz. Tweeters are fine in the shop. Even inside the house. Mids are close. Woofers really should be outdoors or a lot of assumptions must be made.
all your test videos are awesome.. i wonder if some coating could fix that CSD and breakup
lex Tr3 possibly it could at the expense of some sensitivity. I’m too chicken to try it though :P
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers chicken!! hehee it wil not change true sensitivity really since most sensitivity rating are stupidly taken from peaks. it will tame the peak and the mms will go up.. will help with CSD..
it would be a great video .. call it fix CSD and resonnance peaks with coating 101 hehe
lots of diyer coated their dayton PS220 for similar reason. try something like Ennemoser violin C37 lacquer or i think for cheaper visaton have some coating product to sell too (Visaton LTS coating)
if you cross it low enough i dont think the slighly higher mms will be a problem..
i have the Dunlavy sc1v speakers, and was going to use this scanspeak 5 in for my midrange 4 ohm 92 db sensitivity, Do you have any suggestions if there is a better replacement for my speakers, i need 4 of them
I used a smaller discovery mid (10F iirc) with a peerless HD tweeter and Dayton 12" woofer. Let's just say the result was what you'd get if cerwin-vega wasn't junk. That is, loud, transparent and very detailed and articulate. Scary good midrange for the money. Wait... just scary good. Superior to Morel. A dome, is just an inverted cone.
Not all Cerwin Vega is junk... Have you heard of the 1215 or AL series? Those are the more hifi sounding CV's
Awesome, give us "moar" :D
Thanks for sharing
Is this driver related somehow to the VIFA HDS Nomex phase plug drivers?
itoosh Im not sure actually.
I'm almost ready to start my first project. I'm still waiting for the SB Acoustics woofers. I have a Cerwin Vega box. The Scanspeak Beryllium Tweeter mounts easy and sounds good with a borrowed crossover. The mid range is a Scanspeak 7 inch Revelator. It is not sunk in yet due to the box having a cardboard type pipe enclosure for the old mid range. My question is for the mid range, does the shape of the enclosure matter that much? Round sealed, rectangle sealed, square sealed? This driver definitely moves more like a woofer than the stiff, cheap driver it is replacing. I'm going for the best possible sound turned up loud. What shape enclosure is best for a mid range?
mike ables well, having non-parallel walls inside the enclosure certainly helps. You can angle the rear panel or something. Mostly though, use lots of absorption material to absorb the rear reflections.
Wow that third order really shoots up. I'd want to cross it as low as possible 1500-2000Hz. It's a bit of a shame really because otherwise it's a fantastic driver.
What SPL was the HD sweep performed at?
BiggityBoggityBoo I don't really think its that bad actually. I'd cross higher than that. It does mimic the break up though. The test was done at around 92db. Not a very flat response so tricky to level it well. As always, HD measurements are tricky.
тестили до 4500 норм
I CAN TELL YOU FLAT OUT THAT THE BEST TWEETER MATCH FOR THIS DRIVER IS THE IS SCANSPEAK XT25TG30. IS a perfect MATCH.
Now....I need a 15" driver to match my tweeters and midrange.
Can someone help?
I would really like your opinion on the Scanspeak 12mu, it's supposed to be one of the best mid range drivers. Not cheap, though, about 270 euro a piece.
Marcel Ooms I'd love to try it. It's around $300 here. Quite expensive so Im not sure I'll ever have the opportunity. But if I do I will certainly make a test video.
300? Nope.
I know your thing is home audio but alot of car audio uses same principles,I'm considering a 3 way front stage in my vehical actively crossed with a dsp, but my question as far as choosing which driver to prioritize quality I'm assuming the mids are more important for SQ than say the midbass...? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying use a cheap woofer but just a good quality one but being broken into a 3way doesnt most of the detailed sound comes from the mid-range like voices and alot of instruments and the woofer mostly what it says just the snappy tight midbass which isn't as noticable in the SQ vs a dynamic mid-range...? I have dual 15" subs so the low bass is covered. But I'm shooting for super clean big clear detailed voices and guitar type sounds.and do you have any suggestions for a fairly affordable stellar midrange and a quality affordable 6.5 midbass driver.all 4 ohm, also any tweeter or tweeter you think may work best like size or type, ribbons look cool but apparently are not ideal for vehicals and out of curiosity speaker builder channel said ribbons need to be passively crossed is that true...?. I have been looking at daytona AMT, it looks truck and my guess should sound good... Unfortunately budget is a consideration whice SQ and affordable is a contradiction. Any info is appreciated, thank you.
First, as for ribbons. I agree, not good for car audio. Too directional. They can be crossed actively but I would put a protection cap on it. No reason they wouldn’t work with a cap and a dsp XO though.
As for the mid, the scan speak in this video is a good car audio choice because it’s pretty sensitive and very good performance. But other car audio guys might have a better idea than me.
Yes I would prioritize the mid. Not just because our ears are most sensitive, but also because mid bass is a really easy frequency range for a lot of drivers to reproduce. The mid range is much more difficult. So spend the money on the mid. Any $80 mid woofer should be able to do 100-1000hz really easily.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakersawsome, I appreciate you taking the time to answer, it cleared alot up. Thank you very much.
Hey what mic do you use for testing ? Are you using usb or audio interface ?
I use a MiniDSP mic that is USB and have been 3rd party calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs.
Hey man can you please tell me where to download the curves of the Scanspeak 15M4624g00?
It is in the dropbox link in the description of the video just above these comments. All my driver files can be found at that link. Thanks.
How do you put exactly 1 watt to the speaker ?
Quetzalcoalt its actualy 2.8V that I apply rather than watts. Because this is a 4ohm driver it actually sees closer to two watts. That is something I probably should have mentioned in this video is that it has high sensitivity in part because it is 4ohms. Most driver tests now a days are done db/2.83V/m. Which loosely translates to 1 watt for an 8 ohm driver.
I downloaded the FRD and ZMA files and they look like programs not typical FRD and ZMA format, what up? :)
I’m not sure. Did you load them into a crossover simulator? If you open them with a text reader you should see the data.
Hi, can anybody show me where the dropbox link is?
Psilodjan should be in the description.
Hello sir where can I download the curves?
sandyj if you look at the description there is a dropbox link. Let me know if you have any troubles.
I HAVE A PAIR OF Scanspeak 15M/4624G and a pair of tweeters Scanspeak xt25tg30.
Now....I need to choose a 15" woofer .
Can someone help me match my drivers?
Gioxtream that’s a heck of a combination. High sensitivity. I’d look for an 8ohm pro audio woofer for sure. SB Acoustic might have a big 15” woofer that could be a nice match too. Depending on your budget there are a lot of options. Just make sure you pick one that can do bass well because a lot of pro 15s are focused on getting up to a horn around 1500hz and you don’t need that top end capability. Eminence woofers with an “LF” at the end of their model number are design for Low Frequency. I’d look there.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers I really appreciate your response.
THIS IS LIKE COOKING. MIXING THE DRIVERS TO GET THE DESIRED EFFECT.
The driver from SB ACOUSTICS has been for a long time in my mind. ( The 15" woofer)
That driver is a killer one. But....at sensitivity of 93db....hummm.
I have read that the woofer should have 4 to 6 db more than the midrange.
I want to find a good match 15" woofer for my project. I would appreciate if you can chose the 15" driver for me.
I will cut the midrange at 350hz. I think is a great point for this midrange.
Can you give me some options. I am not an expert on this matter. But...I learn fast. This hobby is addictive to the core.
Cheers.
I
Gioxtream 93 ain’t bad but not great for such a large woofer. It doesn’t have to be higher sensitivity than the mids because you can always pad down the tweeter and mid. This mid is high sensitivity so you’ll likely need to pad it down no matter what. Your tweeter will limit how high it can go.
What’s your woofer budget. Per woofer.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers
$500 per woofer
Due to dispersion.....I was wondering if Two 8" drivers per tower would match a 15" driver. Dispersion is very important too. Hummm.
How do you drop your measurent to xsim? Tnx
Cle jhun Bacus I have an Xsim tutorial that can help, but basically you put a driver on the circuit and right click on it. Click on “tune”. Then import frd and zma.
Thanks
I mean do you make your own frd files for those speaker don’t have frd and put it on xsim? Thanks love to see your videos man
Cle jhun Bacus I get it from the measurement software. When I take the measurement I can choose to export the measurement as an frd file. Which is what I put on drop box. It’s possible to create an frd or zma file from nothing in a text editor, but it’s very tedious.
Thank you very much for that.
Your program for TSP measurement at 7:48 and 8:03 does not show one (in my opinion) crucial parameter: mechanical loss aka Rms = 2*π*fs*Mms/Qms. Your Sample 1 has an Rms of 0.47kg/s and Sample 2 has 0.48kg/s. In relation to the piston area of 72cm² that's a very good value and indicates a non-conductive voice coil former. If I compare it to the last test of 5" drivers in the German DIY loudspeaker magazine Hobby HiFi issue 1/2018 it's nearly as good as the SB Acoustics Satori MW13P-NW-4 (0.43kg/s) which costs 155 Euros here in Germany. In that test drivers with a aluminium voice coil former had a value above 1kg/s and others below 0.5kg/s.
Therefore I would expect a large amount of details in music to be unveiled by the 15M/4624G00.
Marius Loubeeka good feedback Marius. Thanks. And as you have shown that property can be calculated. WT2 only determines the essential parameters and then other software can look into the properties a little closer.
Also, based on my short listening sessions it does have good detail.
you should try to ask companies to send you their drivers for free since it's free publicity for them..
lex Tr3 I have enough videos to make at the moment. But if somebody wants me to test something specific I have told them to ask the company to get in touch with me. I don’t really have time to pursue the driver companies. Besides to be realistic about it. They probably don’t really care about a small time guy like me. I also fear that companies will send me hand picked samples. There’s something very honest about buying the drivers myself and getting what ever comes off the factory line.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers small times become big time fast on youtube.. in 2 years you will clearly be at 10-15k from there is exponential.. so keep at it you will be suprised.. these days intelligent companies already have a budget for youtubers like you...i totally agree that for things like driver matching it's better to buy them.. they will clearly send you a matched verified pair..
these days we only trust small time guys :p
I believe, in order to get good sounding midrange, it's better to use this driver (and any other driver) in a large infinite baffle type box (> 5 Vas) rather than small compression type closed box (as long as that's practical). Take a look what enclosure size Revel used for a 4" midrage driver in the first generation of Salon speakers.
Also I have noticed that the midbass drivers in my 2-way Energy RC-10 speakers sound somewhat compressed and less "open" when I convert those vented boxes into closed ones by plugging rear ports with factory provided foam plugs. BTW, Sonus Faber also makes vented midrange enclosures in many if not most of their speakers.
Some other info regarding midrange enclosures: www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/144350-determine-midrange-enclosure-2.html#post4952056
Илья Основиков I agree, I always try to put the mid in as large of an enclosure as possible and stuff it thoroughly.
Foam surround = nope.
The break up above 10k would make brass sound full-bodied and resonant. You could try using that scanspeak mid range as a two-way with a woofer but no tweeter. The last octave above 10k is pointless anyway. Try it and tell us how it sounds.
Dream Diction while I don't disagree that above 10khz is not very important, this driver has break up distortion much lower than that. The recording should capture "full" and "body" characteristics. The speaker should reproduce them as accuratley as possible. I've definitely used mids and full range drivers as a mid/tweeter before and it can work really well actually. Great way to do a 2 way. I should do a video about that style of speaker actually. Good suggestion.
I agree that ringing break-up in the midrange makes a speaker sound rough, but ringing in the high treble between 5-10k can actually thicken and sweeten the high treble. I understand Bose 802 are definitely NOT hi-fi speakers but by far the best live concert brass I have ever heard was played through Bose 802 speakers. The sax/trombone/trumpet sound jumped out of the speakers with loud resonant but smooth rich tone.
The sweep tests you are doing send a full wattage signal all across the whole audio spectrum but when playing real music only 10% of the wattage output is above 5khz, so your sweep test is giving a highly exaggerated impression of the ringing problem with real music. Human voice consonants are all between 2khz and 4khz so nothing will be lost from voice.
The dome midrange speakers have limited high frequency extension but the Scanspeak 15M has unusually good hf extension so it's an ideal unit try as a two-way with a woofer but no tweeter. It's a highly unconventional approach but I think you and many other people will be surprised how good it sounds. You could try a really low crossover point of 300hz or 500hz which would mean you were free to use a really solid low fq woofer. I hope you try it because being conventional will never reveal any big surprises.
@@dreamdiction ringing is an added artefact to the sound.. good sounding artefact are still added artefacts to the original sound.. even good sounding H2 h4 distortion is unwanted.. and you also have to take into account the bad CSD and bad impedence ramp up at these freq
also lower resolution because of higher mms of the driver.. the sweet spots are narrow.. :)
you also need to take into account dynamics and dispersion..
@@lextr3110 In the past I have found that technically imperfect speakers can be very satisfying to listen to. The ears are the final judge so you don't know unless you try.
@@dreamdiction I dont think you understood my point. :)
That’s pretty cheap for a Scanspeak.