Fujifilm, This Is Confusing Me! 😀😀😀
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Trying to figure out the difference between Subject Detection autofocus and Photometry on an X-T5!
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I don't think it's a bug. Per the manual, the metering settings only go into effect when Face and Subject Detection is off. So it seems to make sense that it's under the Photometry display option.
Yeah, I assumed that also, but it just tripped me up nevertheless, lol. Probably because whenever I think of 'detection' I immediately think of autofocus and not light so much.
@@pal2tech Agreed! I get they are trying to simplify things, but sometimes it complicates it more. 😁 Your video is still a great service to Fuji users! Time to call you Mr. Fuji! 👏
Yeah it’s not a bug but I don’t understand why they want it this way.
Photometry should work the same regardless of subject recognition. If I want center metering on my picture with subject tracking on, I should be allowed to have that.
Indeed you can't have both telemetry and face/subject detection at the same time.
So yes in order to see the icon it make sense to enable it in the Screen options.
I guess they should have written "telemetry/subjet" instead of just telemetry.
@@LexanderMillerthat would make little sense - setting the metering according to the subject makes perfect sense… it allows you to make sure that maximum detail by default is retained for the subject you’re telling the camera to be focusing on. Anything else would require you to have full knowledge of spot metering, which is for the very few- terribly difficult to get right consistently
Thank you, Chris for pointing this out. Who would’ve thought? The entire Fujifilm menu system and firmware needs an overhaul.
The reason for this is because the camera calculates the exposure based on what it's looking to focus on. The exposure will be calculate to ensure that The subject is perfectly exposed.
That is so confusing. For me, photometry is about the exposure control rather than autofocus / ai subject ! 😄
Hoping Fuji can sort this out in a future update !
Haha, I'm like you too, this kind of thing drives me batty. Thanks for having the patience to solve this problem for us.
Ah tech master, I thought you would have known this by now;
The way Fujifilm Subject detection modes work, is that they actually REPLACE the standard photometry modes. You can't actually be in Spot, Centre or Matrix with a Subject mode, engaging Face/Eye for example replace the traditional metering modes with its own unique one. The question is... what is it exactly doing? What kind of metering is it doing...
I learned this within a few days of owning a XT4 (and confirmed with a Fuji rep over the phone). I do a lot of event work, and often a fair bit of off camera strobe work outdoors. What would happen is I would set up for the scene, dial in a EV compensation of say -1 or something to protect the sky but then as soon as my subject is now in the scene AND I toggle/engage the Subject/Face Detection, BAM! There goes my predetermined -1 exposure shift and a new value is given (typically lower), making me yet again have to dial in and compensate for it. Bit of a PIA.
To avoid it, live in Face/Eye detection, even when there is no subject, so that what you have dialed in the ambient scene, when the subject walks into frame there is no exposure shift as effectively you are not changing metering mode. Or.. work fully manual mode.
I'm not entirely sure what the kind of metering mode the subject detection is applying, it's not as heavy as Highlight Metering, but it feels like it is prioritizing the skin and dropping exposure a little more to ensure it is not blown. I think Fuji is trying to help us here (and likely does for a lot of beginners), for more seasoned pros the idea of metering modes being tied to an AF option is just bizarre (but not unheard of, I believe other systems have done it this way before as well).
Thanks a lot Chris! Have a great weekend! Cheers
Thanks for that, I had to switch on and off my q-menu to check, this’ll help.👍
Cheers Chris, that has saved putting fist holes though doors, some broken plates, lots of swearing etc.
Thanks Chris shairing this with us.
Another thing confuses me. I expect to see the shutterspeed, f-stop and iso values in the display when activated by checkbox in the display menue. And if automatic modes the current values on half pressed shutter.
But with D-range priority on my H2s the values for apretture and shutterspeed disappear.
And using autoISO -useful in wildlife photography- constantly the maxium is displayed.
It would be so helpful to see the current values !
New XT5 owner, I own the XPro 1-3 cameras since introduction. Used the App to upload the new firmware update, worked flawlessly. Thanks for the heads up!
I think the photometry icon (animal, eye, ...) is there to show the user the current mode and, in this case, warn the user that photometry is locked to the subject (sort of spot AE) and other AE modes are overwritten by selecting any object or eye detection mode. As photometry is locked to the object in any case, why do we need another icon for object detection?
New video from pal2tech, exciting! ^^ Your videos are so cozy and for a fuji user like me, super interesting even if it's "just" small stuff like this :) Looking forward to the next one!
I get it, and think that part of the reasoning is Eye and Animal tracking changes the photometry to focus on the focus point of eye and animal. I am not sure if you can change it to use wide photometry on subject / eye detect.
In the german menu the point is called "AE-Messung" (Auto Exposure Measure). This make sense since set this to eye/face/animal will AUTO EXPOSURE for the selected subject (when in some auto mode).
Chris, always both very helpful and very entertaining!
I went through exactly the same thing a couple of days ago with my new 100s II. Switched all the screen icons on/off in search for it ;) Just to add to your video - the "face detection" is also included in the "photometry" icon. So photometry stands for all 3 options: photometry, subject and face (because you can only have one working at any given time).
Mystery solved 😅. Like you, I spent way too much time on this issue. I never checked the photometry box as i thought it meant metering mode. Wow. Thanks. It's a viewfinder icon I really missed!
I think that in case of face detection the camera metering mode/photometry changes from the "Multi/Center/Spot/Average" to metering for the face and the same happens when other subject than human face is selected. So the Animal detection icon you have been searching for is in this case in fact an icon for metering mode/Photometry and not for AF mode.
Totally with you on this.
hey pal2tech, thanks so much for your videos, they are a GOD send for learning to use fujifilm cameras. i was expecting to get a used x-t3 with the 18-55mm lens, but due to communication error i failed to secure it. regardless, i spent hours watching your videos to prepare myself. hopefully i get one in the future :)
Keep the Fujifilm content coming 😊
Hi Chris, Voigtlander lens users are also reporting that the issue of the aperture value of f2.0 being reported as f22.0 in EXIF data is not fixed in the new update despite Fuji saying it is.
Yes same thing happened to my Voigtlander 35mm F0.9. It still showed f22 in exif data instead of 0.9🤬🤬🤬
Crazy! I just got my X-T5 yesterday and went through this exact same dance during initial setup with the latest firmware. I guess it was easier for me because I didn’t know what to expect.
It seemed crazy at first but it does make some sense: when in subject detection, the metering is based on the subject not the photometry setting, so it overrides the other icon.
Not intuitive though!
This probably is due to the fact that photometry is done using spot metering on the animal when animal mode is on. This means the animal icon is a photometry icon and focus mode is not displayed at all - maybe the face detection icon slot can be the right spot for it?
i followed along at home, and apparently if you set subject detection, you get the subject detection icon under "photopmetry" on shooting settings page 1. still confusing, but it does at least communicate that it's intentional.
If you customise button for subject detection everything seems to be ok. I think that the reason behind subject detection and photometry appearing in the same cell is that when you use subject detection only spot (or center weighted - Im not sure) metering is possible.
Hi Chris! Your youtube channel has been helped me a lot to understand all the Fujifilm menus. I was using Fujifilm GFX since early 2021 and after seeing your youtube channel, the back button focus (MF) was becoming my favourite to make a focus in my landscape photography. However, one thing that I want to ask you, how to read the hyperfocal scale (blue bar indicator) that appeared when we make a focus. Usually for landscape, I put the white strip line at infinity to get maximum depth of field. So my question is why the blue bar showed only short at 5 meters while based on the hyperfocal lens tabel, it has about 2.3 meters?! Really appreciate it if you can explain to us on that hyperfocal scale for landscape shoot. Kind regards, Justinus Sukotjo (Indonesia) 😃🙌🏻
Good Morning from MALTA After seeing the video I went back to the camera before going out on a boat fishing and taking my camera this morning... the bird icon is still there and pressing the 4th of the top buttons assigned for same it changes from photometry to bird and in same place as before at the bottom left ..but will see your video again when I get back .[hope for some birds at sea for some focusing and tracking tests. FUJI XH2s and 150-600mm
I agree to have these new features in X-T3 without icons! )) Please, make that in a new FW, Fuji-guys! )
Thank you. That was helpful!
Great Video.
I think what you need to check is if “Interlock Spot AE & Focus Area” is on in AF menu? If so? Photometry maybe taken from the animal subject detection?
On another issue when using flash (Godox or Fujis flash) either one doesn’t matter. When i have this AF setting off > (Interlock Spot AE & Focus Area), for some unknown reason in TTL flash the flash exposure is much brighter when i have face detection on compared to a single or multi point.
Fuji really need to fix this!! Especially when i have deliberately turned this off. I have tried contacting Fuji but they don’t listen to me. If you could test this and advise Fujifilm would be awesome. It’s happening on my Fuji XT4 and XH2s.
Another bug: In the XS20 the custom settings name aren't displaying correctly on top of Quick Menu page
Thanks Chris, I would have probably never figured that out.
Can you help me please. I have a GFX 50sii . To find what firmware the camera has it states in the manual to switch the camera on whilst pressing the DISP/BACK button but nothing happens? Cannot workout why.
Photography has been unnecessarily complicated by present day camera manufacturers......😢😢😢😢
It is goofy, for sure. I wonder if it's because when face/eye detection is on, it meters for that subject. I cant remember if Fujifilm has a setting that asks or not, but some of my other cameras have a setting that can be toggled on or off, that asks to meter for subject when subject tracking is enabled basically spot metering...
I have Fujifilm XH2 camera and after updating the firmware 5.0 the icon remained in place.
Confusing, but two icons would be redundant because there's only one photometry mode available when you have face/subject detect on. If face or subject detect is on then photometry disabled.
This is simply Fuji logic. When subject detection is activated, photometry settings are greyed out. Thus no need for an icon (which might then be confusing as well).
This is common to many (all?) Fuji Cameras. (I know of X100V and Xpro3.)
The question that requires an answer is: why did Fuji make this deliberate choice? (Not only with animal detection, but subject detection in general.)
I guess Subject detection does its own metering, that can be adjusted via Exposure compensation. But this means one additional parameter to take into account.
Being able to decide to use spot metering might be preferable for many.
As this is not a bug per se, I don’t see any change coming in this regard.
Cheers
I think you're right about Fuji logic here. When you're in subject detect, I think it ties metering to expose for the thing you're detecting and locks you out of any manual control of the metering mode. So the subject detect mode is, in Fuji logic, the metering mode. What is my metering mode? It's cat.
Yes. This is how it works. I really struggled for a bit because I couldn't change my metering in people mode, but when you're in a mode it's metering for the person it's chosen to focus on so the icon does make logical sense. Tbh I find Fuji autofocus and metering to be so confusing, illogical and laggy coming from a Sony that I got a manual lens and now I can take a photo instead of missing shots because I can't figure out what idiosyncratic setting I've messed up.
On my Fujifilm X-T30 II It's been like that for a long time...If I enable face detection it takes the place of the photometry icon, and of course photometry needs to be enable in order for the eye icon to appear, yes, weird
Thanks for this video, but... can I ask you something? In a digital mirrorless like this ( I have too ) or in every digital reflex camera do you really need the Photometry? We don't shoot on film where the photometry can help us, now with digital camera or better, in a mirrorless with a very helpful viewfinder where WYSIWYG do you really need the photometry? Thanks
Yes XH2S has the same issue, photometry has to be ticked to have it display the the relevant Subject detection displayed.
My X-H2 has the icons automatically displayed in the screen.
I can confirm that the aperture settings bug on the X-T5 - with a manual focus lens such as the Vöigtlander Ultron 27mm f/2 - has now been fixed. The EXIF now shows actual aperture being used.
It also might be worth noting that if any subject detection is selected, that you are locked out of changing your photometry type.
Dearest, I follow you from Italy with the automatic translation of TH-cam. I too found a lack: after a shot I checked the result on the monitor of my camera (XT5), well before a small square appeared indicating the focus and exposure point, now I can't find it anymore. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you.
Hey. I also noticed this yesterday when looking at edvart's post on TH-cam. In his screenshot, there was an eye icon next to the shooting mode icon, which didn't appear on my X-H2 when I had eye detection enabled. I got suspicious!!!!
I worked out that this was the position of the photometry icon, which I'd set to be hidden on my camera. When I ticked the box to show it, the eye icon appeared when eye detection was on. When Eye Detection is off, the Photometry setting is displayed.
Has Fujifilm run out of space to add an eye detection icon?
Question if i want to replace my xt4. Wihich camara in fujifilm X system should i get? I shoot mostly stills but seeing the xt5 getting more and more love and the xt4 pretty much death has got me thinking its time.
New user of XT5. New to digital. Do other brands have as many hiccups and idiosincracies to deal with as Fuji?
I know this is off topic. Can anyone explain how to tether an XT5 into Dark Table?
I think the subject detection takes over the Photometry (exposure metering) and meters off the subject? Something to test.
Great tip thanks
Hi,I've checked it with firmware 6.0 and it's the same like with 7.0
By the way, train detection only works with modern traction, namely it looks for windows on the cab and steam train do have them.
This again proves to me that Fujifilm really needs to completely overhaul it’s menu structure. What started OK in the X-T1 and X-Pro1, has turned into a mess in the X-H2 and X-T5. We host workshops in our studio and see all brands passing by, but together with owners of older Sony cameras, the Fujifilm owners struggle most with finding the right menu settings in their cameras. We even made a cheat card esp. for Fuji owners on how to set preview exp/wb and natural live view in combination with studio flash setup.
This is another one of those quirks that isn’t really a problem. I’ve been using the latest firmware update the last two days and the face/eye, subject (animal), and photometry icons are still there. The only thing I’ve noticed is a vastly improved AF.
Thank you for this video 🙂
Entertaining as always.
Influences metering ... and no way to disable it (enable standard metering) ... as there's no option to limit object /face detection to the size of the AF box...
It does make sense, somewhat, still, I do not like the fuji menu system. I've had a Fuji for a year now and I still struggle to find things in the menu salad.
I don't know if the X-H2 is any different. But after the update my icons were automatically displayed. Unlike yours.
Thanks for sharing.
I noticed in the Q menu that, if you turn on subject detection auto focus, the icon displayed becomes the same icon in photometry but in a different color. And if you change the subject detection mode, the photometry icon changes with it. I assume that is because the photometry zone becomes the same as the subject detection auto focus zone when it’s turned on. I think it does the same thing if you have it on face detection.
I think the photometry options don’t mean anything if you have it on subject detection or face detection auto focus because the camera will determine exposure based on whatever your focus is on when those autofocus options are turn on. In other words, the photometry setting (and, thus, its icon) only matters if you don’t have subject or face detection turned on. Hence, I think the two settings are mutually exclusive. I think that’s why you were not seeing your subject detection icon when the photometry icon setting was turn off.
Clarification: subject matter detection, face detection, and photometry are all mutually exclusive. Photometry only works if there is no subject or face detection. If you turn on subject detection, photometry turns off. If you turn on face detection, subject detection turns off. So only one icon is ever needed at any given time depending on which setting is engaged.
I noticed that too (well my daughter). To her it really bothers her. To me, well as long as it functions don’t care about anything on my frame. But she took it upon herself to ask her Fuji crew (all her college friends [like 12] from 21-24) and they were all furious. So the young newcomers will definitely get annoyed. Specially if they moved from or also utilize other brands.
One stange thing is that when I hit playback button the camera does not show the last pic taken. This happens sometimes. When I shut the camera off and on the last pics shows up again. Sounds like a bug to me. How do I adress this to Fujifilm?
Yeah man. Same thing over here. What is going on?
I wonder if the folks at Fujifilm are really aware of how huge of a monster they have created. Many people are now and already have been switched over to other camera brands, myself included. Just because Fujifilm doesn't seem to be capable of fixing important issues which should have been half a decade ago.
I've been a loyal Fujifilm user for a decade and I've put all of my trust and money into their cameras and lenses, including the X-T2, X-T4, X-T5, X-H2S and X-E4 and just about all of the XF lenses available to date. But now, in the 2nd half of 2024 I've become numb and really tired of the fact that Fujifilm ran into the physical limitations of their X-Mount architecture. We can hope and pray that one day their Auto-focus system and (AI) tracking capabilities will be on par with what is considered being the industry standards. But it simply won't happen with the crop-sensor architecture any time soon.
And this made me somewhat sad and jump ship.
Bless you 🙏
Leica seem to be the only Camera company to get the user experience spot on.
Just checked, and it's the same on my X-H2S (FW 6.0)
When Photometry is not selected at display settings, no subject detection mode icon show sup.
Firmware 6.0? or 5.0 rather
@@xmj6830 Oh, Sorry. Got it mixed up. It's actually 7.0 :D
That's right. X-H2S is actually already at FW Veresion 7.0
Kinda Crazy
@@FloKuGrafie Shall make coffee at the level ;)
"It's a feature, not a bug"... I had a similar issue with a Nikon camera, not for a display icon but for writing raw files to one of the memory cards. I had set the setting to record raw files to the card, but only JPGs were going to both of the cards. It turns out that for my camera model, there are two different settings that each need to be set to a raw format for the chosen card for the camera to actually record raw files to that card. ARrrrrggg!
I just tested my Fuji cameras, and I discovered that we can't use photometry when eye/face detection is activated.
This is an excellent example of what can happen when a manufacturer tries to make a product that “does everything.” It becomes so complex that even the people who engineered it don’t understand it all. And, that when they change one thing, it has unanticipated consequences in a bunch of other areas.
Hello, i saw that the photometry mode icon changes when i use face detection and the mettering, for me goes wild, I mean same shot could be brighter, darker or with low contrast. (Fuji x-s10)
Thank you so much for this. Was looking for a way to see in the display if eye-detection is enabled or not. Your video helped me a lot 🎉😊
As consistent as the menu fonts. I love my Fujifilm camera, but reading those 25 different sized and squished fonts in the menu hurts not only my eyes but also my soul.
This is way we watch you first!
That's what I call a quality bug report
Chris, it’s not just this that is confusing, it’s Fuji’s entire menu system, which is nothing short of appalling. After all of these years, Fuji could have made incremental improvements and yet they’ve chosen not too. None of this is surprising.
It's weird that this small detail makes you confused.....
How about the huge AF performance difference (downgrade) between firmware 1.03 and 7.0 ??????
He is using the X-T5 not the X-H2s and it might be because there is no "huuuuge" difference anymore.
Both XH2s and XT5 had issues..
FW 3.0 had better AF than 1.03.
Didn’t check out 7.0 yet.
Thank you for this. I just updated my settings. Wouldn’t have guessed this myself….
Many thanks for sharing this information. Unfortunately Fujifilm cameras are known for their confusing and labyrinthic menus. :-((
If face detection is 'on', the camera meters on the face. Though I wonder about the photometry result if a black person is in front of the camera.
💀
bruh
Ha! Software engineers injecting new code and deploying it without have photographers in QC! LOL! Any time new code is deployed something always slips through. It's interesting that in a world with such intuitive mobile OS examples out there that camera companies haven't tried more to emulate that environment. Oh well..... Have a rockin' day!
FUJI DISPLAYING AUTO ISO VALUES DYNAMICALLY
My other Fuji wish is with Auto ISO. With my Nikon D500 in AUTO ISO mode the ISO value is displayed dynamically so you can see the (AUTO) ISO value in any S, C, or M focus modes.
With Fuji however you only see the ISO (AUTO mode) value when you half press the shutter button in S (Single AF) and M (Manual) which is somewhat burdensome.
In C ( Continuous AF) half pressing the shutter button does not display the (AUTO) ISO value at all. Strange?
The ISO value displayed is the maximum ISO value you have selected depending on the what you setup in AUTO IS0 1, ISO 2 or ISO 3 options.
P.S. I use back button focusing but I don't think this is the reason.
SUMMARY: FUJI'S AUTO ISO NEEDS T O DYNAMICALLY DISPLAY THE AUTO ISO VALUE
This could be changed easily in firmware
I don't know if it's because there was sad news for me this week or what, but I've been a bit more sensitive these days.
I went to this video just to see what was new at Fujifilm, and I realized that the voice and spirit that Chris is able to transmit even through videos, made me feel at home, made me feel relaxed, good again.
Thank you for that, and for all the support for those of us who make our living from this. A world between technique and sensibility.
Greetings from Germany, with an XT4 that feels safe in my hands, largely thanks to your videos!
Big hug
Thanks for showing this, it certainly got me to check out my Fuji XS-20 and get to know it better. I always appreciate your thorough videos they are very helpful … my go-to in fact 🫡✅👍🏻
My X-T5 indicates correctly. Perhaps because of the localisation?
European model, German menu…
This is what happens when we allow the camera to make decisions for us.
I laughed a lot while watching this video. I want to search through the minds of the Fujifilm developers.
The af bug modification firmware was also very slow. To make up for this, I got the impression that they put in Reala Ace film.
شكراً
Is it only me that i thought he was gonna talk about the new Autofocus issues? 😅
I'm so done with fuji. Selling everything and moving to a new system. So tired waiting for fuji to fix things
Same here. I have an xt3 and was about to pull the trigger on the xt5 when the auto focus bug came up, and it made me step back and reevaluate. I’m in the process of deciding between the Nikon Zf b/c of the familiarity of the retro dials, and the Sony A7iv because of the variety of lenses, I can get exactly the focal lengths I want in the size I like.
I think its due to once you have subject detect enabled and AFC it resorts to changing the photometry setting to focus point or essentially the subject.
I knew the answer right away, but I am just confused about this one, as everybody else.
This is normal. Subject detection and eye tracking override the manual photometry input.
I'm glad there are other people who don't have a life. Thanks for checking🤣
Fuji needs to get their AF act together. Glad I let them 3 years ago
Their AF is just fine
Thank You for your Time spending on every disturbing detail!
ahaha so funny with Iceland photographers
I still don't understand why almost every camera manufacturer (although Fuji is definitely on the worse side of the spectrum nowadays) seems to employ the most incompetent/laziest/most devilish/biggest trolls/... , when it comes to menus and button layout...
It is NOT THAT HARD!
Both things should have been perfected AGES ago and yet both are constantly in flux leaving some things worse and some better than before.
No action on a camera that is crucial for taking a photo in your wanted settings should ever require more than one push or flick. It's incredible that we still deal with vastly overcomplicated setups, that have no rhyme or reason to layout and are still fumbling with controls that should be the manufacturers first concern on where to put them.
What irks me the most are solutions in search of a problem, but that is a story for another day.