Micro Drone PSA 🚁 Death Rolls 💀👻😲
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- As promised my findings on the death rolls afflicting certain micro drones. This is a long video but necessary to explain a complicated problem. If you don't like it, just don't watch.
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I had a random and un-explainable FOD's that came out of nowhere for several weeks. Turned out it was a bad motor. Must have had a short that slowly developed. Now I elec tape the wires right at the motor to stop them from wiggling there. Thanks for the vid. "The more you know!"
AK, great tests on these micros. Watching your previous reviews I decide to order one Leader 120 that is arriving. I am worried about the flip of death on this model so I will closely follow your next discovers. Thanks!!!
I got mine about 10 days ago and it had different motors with a shorter prop shaft and no FODs for me, so far...
I hope to receive mine with no problems. Thanks Frank!!!
I just received my Leader 120 and it has black motors labeled SZ-Speed 1104-7500KV. Great info Albert, many thanks.
Yep, I think they changed suppliers.... maybe these are better? Are you getting death rolls?
Same motors that I got as well.
Nick Burns Can i ask what your idle speed is at please Nick?
I took the chance and I order the Leader 120 yesterday knowing that it has this problem, my builds are super strait forward and never had any issues because I use what works over and over and over, sp racing f3, in all my builds, every time I try something new, everything goes to hell. so that is me. But I love you reviews.
I got one of the new Leader 120's with all black motors. I switched to rotor x 2535 props and raised idle to 7%. Still on the jst connector, stock ESC firmware, stock FC firmware (3.1.5). No flips of death
Adding to this. I also received the newer batch LD-120 with the black motors. Motor Idle was set to 10 in factory settings. I lowered it to 6,5, then did some test flights. No FoDs, even when I was purposefully trying to cause them. Motor stop on and off, Air Mode on and off, punching from idling or from completely stopped motors in free fall - no FoDs.
The new stock configuration has other problems, which I've described in LD-120's thread on RCGroups, but flips of death seem to be gone.
I noticed that one esc was resetting on my kt100 build, causing flips of death when i did a roll in one direction, and sometimes also when i armed it and the motors would spin up. Of course you can't hear the beep if it's happening in the air and the other motors still running. Still not sure if the problem was the motors or escs, racerstar 1103 10000 and 6amp escs. I replaced both with 1104 7500 and 10a 4in1, never had that problem again. I guess one of the escs was bad but i have to use the 1103s in another build to figure out.
I have the lizard95 and never had a problem. Until i crashed one time and ever since it has issues. I found out that my low ESR capacitor i put on it broke one of the leads off. I wonder if having the cap kept it from having issues. I can't verify it cause my frame broke on one of the flips of death and I'm waiting for new frame.
Albert I enjoyed this longer in depth vid. A lot of meaty info to bite into that I think many of us are craving. No complaints here!
I wonder if the problem is electrical motor noise and maybe some caps might help. Can you test this??
Another thing I note is the prop you got, the ones with no problem are not 3 blade and vibration can be a big factor.
Another great informative video! Thanks for sharing your findings. Let us know the results if you go ahead and change connector on the grasshopper. Cheers!
Im running dshot - does this still mean i can change the idle speed ? A lot of what you're saying doesn't make sense because most of it is idle speed and i've never had to change this value and i dont see where you can change it. In the cli if i " get idle " it gives me the dshot value from 0-2000 | Also from your video what I gathered from your information is that it could literally be any of the parts from the props to the motor or esc so it could be anything ?
It's in the configurator on the main configuration page at the top right. Select DSHOT600 and you'll see a drop down menu called "Motor Idle Throttle Value"
.... i see - i've never seen that before. I think I fixed the problem by putting the start up power on low which has been everybodys combined winning suggestion. It also worked from me. Something tells me running camera + vtx + receiver off an AIO ESC PDB FC might be taxing these little boards pretty hard. I'm using a zeus F4 AIO Caddx Turtle HD dvr and RuncamVTX so nothing major - but this exact set up didn't have death rolls on a 2" now on these big ass motors they do so maybe a cap would of helped in this situation ? Who knows i'm not really that smart like most people who fly, we just watch some videos, think we know something, put parts together and go fly.
Hi. I just had this issue with my 5", and my flight controller BB says that motor number two spins 100% while the rest are around 20% during the time that it needs to recover from the roll. Im not sure if I need to replace the ESC or the flight controller.
So after killing my ARFUN 95 pro frame I put the components into the the Eclair V2. Added some Emax 1106 7500 KV Motors and an XT30 connector. It flies great until I ask it to roll and then it just flips out. Running 3s 650 Tattu’s as well as my 2s 80c’s Beeper constantly beeps right after take off. Updated to 3.2 and the latest BL helix firmware bit still the same. Should I replace the motors if the idol speed doesn’t work?
Drop min voltage to 2.8v and raise idle speed to 6 percent. Let me know what happens...
Albert Kim It’s midnight here so I’ll have to do that in the morning before work. Of course I’ll let you know the results. Like you, I am stumped and clearly it’s a combination of many factors.
Albert Kim Okay so I reduced the min voltage to 2.8 and upped the idol speed to 6. Initially all was working fine, flipping and rolling just fine until I did a double flip and the flip of death happened. Sadly that landing delaminated a few layers on one of my Eclair V2 arms which has really ticked me off. Not completely broken through but not sure I can trust it. Probably shouldn’t have put my new set of Hulkies on there either. Grrrrr. Should I up the idol speed a little more?
Im having a similar problem. Kinda. Im getting the flip of death on my newest build. Flipping out on the pitch axis when I cut the throttle and start a flip. Only happens on 4s. But it flies PERFECT on 3s. I have tried almost everything. I figured that it was the throttle idle percentage because it works on 3s, but not 4s. But I have tried raising and lowering idle, but it still happens. Im pretty much stuck because I have tried almost everything I can think of. Tried different PIDs, added capacitor, tried inverted prop rotation, tried different rates, changed idle percentage (low & high), tried antigravity, switched props, calibrated everything (tx endpoints, ESCs, accelerometer), tried every pid filter setting, tried every DShot protocol with every pid/gyro loop combo, and more. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Im tired of crashing every time I need to test a new setting!
+Ninja Sauce change motor speed to med low
I probably should have mentioned that im using BLHeli32. ....I have something called "ramp-up power", but Im not sure if it does the same thing. But I noticed that I can adjust the motor timing to precise degrees. I need to read the complete BLHeli32 manual because its kinda different from BLHeli S.
+Ninja Sauce change motor timing to med low
I stopped having flips of death when i activated airmode and raised idle throttle high enough to be able to stop a flip of 690degrees/sec.
What I found interesting was that I've always used 2% idle speed without any problems. I never used air mode either. Then I decided to upgrade to betaflight 3.2 for the new dshot commands because.. ya know.. they're god-like. Immediately started getting flips of death after punch outs. Usually it's right after I punch out hard and then begin to fall, it will just suddenly go into a super fast roll and usually it will catch itself after like 10 rolls or so but sometimes it just goes full crazy rolls all the way until it hits the ground. So w/e they did in 3.2 caused it for me lol.
have you tried installing a small capacitor yet?
Have not... first time I've heard of this idea. Where did you see this work?
borris' betaflight thread on rcg. and many other spots. my 20 amp all in one esc came with one
Oscar Liang explains this nicely: oscarliang.com/capacitors-mini-quad/
great link. oscar explains just about everyting quad nicely!
@albert; you owe me a beer if it works! ;)
Hello.. i have micro and the setup is 1408 motors, omnibus F4 micro FC and 25amps ESC 4in1.. i use 3S lipo all normal and good fly, but when i use 4S lipo then arming instantly the quad going crazy..
The PIDs are probably way too high for 4S.
Albert Kim do you have solution for my problem..? Thanks..
I'm getting flips of death on my GEPRC Phantom toothpick.
Hi Albert, thanks for the video. I had chatted with you before about my flips of death on my Leader 120. Well, I have been in communication with Full Speed, and they sent me some new software to put into Betaflight, and I did that, didn't help. So I asked that they send me a new quad and take mine and find out why it flips out. But they wouldn't do that. They did agree to send me a new 4in1 ESC, as I had heard you and others talk about how that may be the problem. I haven't received it yet(I had to purchase something from their store, then they put the ESC in the shipment). Now I hear you thinking that it may be a motor issue . If you don't recall what I have already done, here is my list. Put on XT30, brand new 75C Tattu batteries, changed idle speed 3.7, 6.5, 8, 10. Tried Gemfan 3025 2 blade props(cut down to fit), isolate the camera power with a 5v BEC, running DSMX receiver. All of that to still have flips. So, maybe even before I put the new ESC on(as it will probably be the same kind as what is in it), I was wondering what would be the best motors to try? Should I try a different kv than 7500, or even different motor size than 1104? And would a different brand of ESC be worth thinking about? Thanks again for the good video, and hope to hear your opinions!
Stratman1970 LemonRx would be 100% compatible with the lemon quad you were sold. I would return the quad for refund. If you paid via Paypal you can dispute the transaction and get your money back. Too many FPV enthusiasts are getting scammed these days. I returned my micro which was desyncing - RotorX Atom V3 - for a full refund. Got Japalura from Armattan and have 0 issues now.
Ya I wish I could return it. I purchased it from GearBest. They said their policy is only to return or full refund on DOA quads. So because my motors spun up, it wasn't DOA in their eyes. It doesn't matter that I am totally unable to fly this thing, and have never been able to fly even a whole battery at one time without it falling out of the sky. It sure leaves a bad taste in a persons mouth about these companies that are making a ton of money off of us!!!!
Stratman1970 Don't worry about the GeatBest policy. Just open a claim with your credit card or paypal and complain the product is defective. GearBest will be forced to accept return.
My Leader 120 had an XT30 from the beginning. And I updated the ESCs in BLHeli and I was having flips of death!
+Frequent Flyer RC did you update Betaflight? Props? PIDs? ESC startup power? Probably many different combinations of tricks might be needed depending on the craft.
Thanks for sharing man! I am now totally convinced it's the motors now. My reasoning is I got Multishot running on the Leader and the motors don't even spin on arm until you take min throttle all the way up to almost 1200! See, Dshot hides this because of the way that protocol works. My guess is too much resistance in motors in the form of lack of sensitivity.
+Frequent Flyer RC The ESCs might not be properly built for multishot and one shot... BUT, I agree the motors here are very suspect!!!
My Leader 120 which just came in has different motors, but the motor idle was set to 10%. No flips of death, but I'm not a very aggressive as the both of you. However, I actually don't like the motors is has as the prop shaft is only about 2 mm tall. Barely enough to seat the prop. Everything seems fine other than that but I am tempted to lower the idle speed, since I too, feel it's way too high. BF was updated to 3.1.7. Also, I have that read that Air-mode may be an additional factor in this problem occurring as reported from users on the RCGroups.
Frank Barajas hey there, air mode won't be an issue as long as the digital idle speed is right. On 10% you should be cool
Has anyone with this problem tried installing a cap on it to see if that helps? It could be a power surge causing the esc to reset.
Albert I read a article in gibhub and they tacking about this problems due to Dshoot 600 protocol
Really!!!???? How can I find this article? I would like to read it.
Albert I cut and paste the comment I did in andyrc about this issue, this is what i copy and paste from gibhub web site, i have the link in my work computer so this is what i gather. Setting Minimum Throttle
Note: In Firmware 3.1.1 and earlier min_check and min_throttle are affecting the Dshot idle value so adjusting the motor idle speed is not straight forward. If running these earlier versions of firmware try defaults and then adjust 'digital_idle_percent' until the motors ilde at the desired speed.
This got fixed in 3.1.2 and up so now digital_idle_percent Only sets the Dshot idle speed. Be aware that Dshot ESCs can run motors at much slower speeds but if idle speed is too low the motor may Stall in flight during hard maneuvers and you get a 'death roll'. If this happens increase the value of digital_idle_percent.
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REPLY
Hey Albert, I've been a long time subscriber of yours and I know you use the Turnigy Flysky protocol in your builds as much as possible. I'm wondering if you can comment on some of the bad reports on the micro rx's (A8S and FS82) where folks are having trouble. Ie:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...8#post38726740
I'm wondering if these are really the brown outs you discuss in your PSA videos, or maybe ESC noise like the F4 FCs, or maybe you've experienced problems too.
Thanks a bunch, keep up the good work!
I can make some general observations about the micro flysky receivers. Out of the RX2A, RX2A Pro, FS82, and A8S, the FS82 is the one I've bought the most with fewest defects. Of the RX2A Pro's that work, they seem to be just as good as the FS82. However, I've gotten a couple of duds. The A8S seems to have issues with RF interference. If you properly shield them they seem to be OK. I don't know everyone else's experience, but this has been mine.
By the look of things you are into your 2/3 inch drones. From the videos I have seen people have been talking about flips of death mainly on the smaller 2/3inch drones. I have not seemed to come accross a video that talks about deathrolls brown outs on larger quads 4/5inch. Maybe the reviewers of larger quads just dont mention it?
+ERD Epoch I've had death rolls on 5 inch quads and I've mentioned it in my video reviews. Other reviewers gloss over this since it makes the quad look bad.
As I suspected.
Me thinks it's just a lot of current buzzing around not the best made circuitry, causing most of these airborne failures...
Cheers
Found the link: github.com/betaflight/betaflight/wiki/DSHOT-ESC-Protocol
Where is it mentioning death rolls?
Hey Albert have you checked out Frequent Flyer RC new video on lowering his min cell voltage, thinking maybe you could test it to see if that actually does fix the problem. th-cam.com/video/nPZ1J7kVylA/w-d-xo.html
I have not seen already all the vid (But I will see it) but I had my first spin of death just yesterday, or two days ago with a dys elf. But for me it was just a lost connection with the tx, in a peculiar manouvre. I was sitting down with the tx covered by me and by a mais camp 'cause the quad was back of me, and with an ele trical line in beetween. Ne ver happenened otherwise before or after.
I have always had some form or other of brown outs with the egg130, but just prior to swap the plug (with a jst) and batteries.
If someone interested all the Egg 130 saga is on me channel.
Bye!!!