Talking about the Kia e-Niro's 12-volt battery which decided to drain. EVs rely on these why?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Imagine the scene. It’s the first day back to school, you’re perfectly on time but the e-Niro doesn’t start. The 12-volt battery has drained. Thankfully we live next to mechanics.
Absolutely crazy we still have to rely on crappy old 12-volt batteries but that’s just how it is. At least until Tesla disrupt things again with the Model Y. Good thing there’s someone out there innovating, eh?
Also, a massive thank you to everyone who’s supported the channel in the last 12 months. Here’s to an exciting 2020!
Here’s the always excellent Bjorn Nyland talking about the 12v battery in his MG ZS EV, although it’s useful info for all EVs: • Trick to avoid low 12 ...
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Some useful content but too much waffling. I don't know what that OBMS? is that you have plugged in - you shouldn't assume that everyone will know what this is. You could perhaps write out beforehand what you want to say and rehearse it - a drag I know but would improve your show.
Just for once, when we picked up our eNero in August '19, I did actually read some relevant parts of the manual. Partly from having had a flat 12 volt battery on the previous PHEV Prius a week or so before.
There is a place in the fuse box under the bonnet specifically for jump starting. If you attach a crock clip to it, it will supply 12 volts to get the car turned on, and then the battery should charge from the high voltage battery.
The 12 volt system is there for safety. If for some reason there is a need to kill the High Voltage system, you can still use the ancillary equipment for diagnosis and signalling, like brake lights or hazard lights. Otherwise everything is dead, and possibly a problem if you need to be "Recovered."
That´s interesting to know. Is that in the manual? I´m picking mine up in a couple of weeks and the 12V issue is one of my little fears :)
@@KsiNixNie Looking back at the manual, I think I was getting mixed up between cars! The Prius' 12volt battery is in the rear wing, and so needs the connection in the fuse box. The Kia has it's 12 volt battery right next to the fuse box, (under the bonnet), so 'Jump starting' can be done in the usual way. This is covered in chapter 6, page 5 in my manual. (The manual is 2.5 cm thick, that is literally an inch!). There is another that covers the Nav/infotainment system. I hope you like reading :-).
During Covid lockdown for 5 weeks I was only doing about 6 miles one day a week. The 12 volt battery stayed OK during that time, although I was twitchy about it.
Enjoy your new car: We have had ours for just over the year, and my only complaint is how many things there are to learn about all the systems! So I gave up, and just enjoy driving the car. When I need to find some thing out, then I go back to the book-of-words.
Tip: The charge flap is unlocked with the remote control. If you unlock the car with the button on the door handle (as I do), the flap is locked again by the time you get to it. Also, if you can not unplug the charge cable from the car, there is a 'release' toggle under the bonnet right by the socket. Took me a while to figure that one out.
Also, if you hold the left 'paddle' on the steering column and do not release it, it will bring the car to a gentle stop, and will hold it stationary without the need to keep your foot on the brake. Touch the accelerator pedal, and you move off. Helpful on hills and in traffic.
12volt battery is charged from the high voltage battery when you have the car in ready mode. I suspect battery saver works to give some limited 12volt charging from the high voltage battery when the car is locked. It would seem that if your OVS thing was drawing off the battery and it was unlocked then that could have created the circumstances for it to discharge fully, especially if the battery was low due to less use over the holidays.
To much damn talking, get to the point 😠😡
I'm 40 this year as well, married 10 years and want a Kia e-niro. The youtube algorithm is working then...BMW i3 has this issue as well and the 12v battery failure has become a meme for the owners.
Hello mate I have Kia Niro Phev I left a crypto miner plugged with my car overnight thorough obd2 port and since my battery have issue I’m using noco to starts. I can see the 12 battery in the boot of my car do you think I should change the battery ?
If you have an EV or PHEV it's well worth carrying one of those small lithium-ion battery boosters for that time the 12V is too low to start the car. The GB40 unit your mechanics used is a bit on the small size though. I have a GB150 and it will start anything. I helped a Leaf driver who got stuck at motorway services because he sat in his car with the radio and lights on but the car not in READY mode, flattened the 12V after an hour or so. Once the 12V is flat, connecting to a rapid charger doesn't work, so without a 12V booster you are stuffed. :-)
Sorry for double -posting. Just found this on the OVMS docs site under Kia e-Niro: -
"12V battery drain
OVMS will eventually drain the 12V battery, but steps have been taken to minimize the drain. However, if you are going to leave the car for a fews days, it is recommended to unplug OVMS. OVMS will send an alert if 12V drops under 12V alert threshold. See 12V Calibration section.
"
So, given the holiday lack of driving, you may have just been unlucky with your OVMS module.
Faulty battery. The same thing happen to my e-Niro. The RAC attended and checked the condition of the 12v battery. He told me that one of the four cells was not working.
That will happen again if you park the car with the light switch on
As you say, this has been an issue for years. The cars randomly fail to top the 12v up. I stopped waiting for the next stranding and monthly used a smart battery conditioner overnight. No more problems. And also fitted a small 12v meter into the power outlet so that I could keep an eye on the 12v level.
As far as I am aware there is contactor (electro-mechanical switch) that brings the drive battery online when you "start" the car, to operate this you need 12v, once the contactor is in then there is a DC to DC converter which converts the drive battery voltage down to around 14.5v for charging the 12v battery, this then powers all your normal system like an ICE car (bulbs, wipers heater fan etc.) Any device plugged into the OBD diagnostics port will drain power from the 12v battery (I have the Bluetooth module for Leaf-spy) which I always make sure I remove when I park up. When you're parked up with the ignition on listening to music etc this is still using the drive battery to charge the 12v so should last as long as long as the drive batteryI have one of them large USB Li-ion charge packs which has a USB output and a small set of croc clips and leads to plug into it which will (so they say) be enough to start a small ICE car. It's about the size of an iPhone plus, but 3-4 times thicker. The ideal thing to do if it happens again is connect this on the 12v car battery give it 3-60 seconds and try and start the car again.
I have on four occasions had the 12 volt battery go dead as a result of leaving the trunk lid open only a couple of hours. Very little capacity in this battery. The dealer actually replaced the battery one of the times I did that, and has told me, as I've read another videos, to really avoid leaving the doors and trunk open. With an ICE car battery you would get away with that but with my PHEV having a dinky little 12 volt, it empties quickly. Also, I bought a well-rated lithium ion jump charger has have been referenced by several people here, and kept it charged, and the first time I tried to use it it was dead. I guess I'll get another one, I've waited a couple of years after getting burned. In the meantime, I carry jumper cables and pay a lot of attention to the hatch lid tending to not shut quite all the way, then leaving me not only stranded but having to use the manual unlock, empty the car through a side door so I can get to the manual override of the hatch latch. Frustrating.
Ciao Mr Ev. Yesterday the same happened to my Hyundai Kona electric and thinking to your video also if I was a bit afraid to have some damage to the li-ion battery, I was also thinking that was just the 12v.
I decided to record a video of what happened from when I fou d the car dead to when I managed to start it again.
th-cam.com/video/ju9X_I8z8BI/w-d-xo.html
Don’t worry, you’ll be too old for the call up
Did u find out the issue
I’m getting
Error regenerating brake
Error brake fuse
If your 12v battery dips below 12v (and you were warned repeatedly!) some electronic units will have inadeqaute trigger voltage, hence your fail to start. Get yourself a new quality battery old bean. Halfords have very long warranty, if it fails after a few years they will replace it F.O.C. - ask me how I know....Happy New Year to you too.
A little worrying that it unlocks itself when the 12v dies. Surely it should stay locked and make you use a physical key to open the door
Most likely for safety, in a event of a emergency you can get out
So a thief just has to pop the bonnet and disconnect the 12v sounds good and bad at the same time
I've left my Niro EV unplugged and unused for more than a week before and did not have that issue. I don't have any extra things plugged into the vehicle though, so I wonder if that is what is causing things to go wrong.
The only actual information is in the comments. But some of that is definitely worth reading. I wouldn't bother listing to the video.
I agree!
Hi Andrew. I find your videos beneficial. I am kia Eniro 2022 owner. Recently my car 12 Volt battery drained and so car didn’t start. I jump started the car and battery seem to go back to normal, BUT the radio switch start and the physical buttons beside it stopped working. Did this ever happened to you? Regards
That didn't happen to me, but it sounds like it needs some sort of reset. Have you spoken to your local Kia dealer? They may be able to advise over the phone?
@@MrEV i will phone kia . Thanks for replying
So annoying I’m in a situation where I need to charge a car and you’re here talking about happy new year wtf man
Sorry - I hope you skipped forward to get to the info! Did you get your car started in the end? Do get yourself a battery starter: they're worth their weight in gold.
Take it back to the dealership and get them to run a diagnostic
I am considering swapping the lead acid battery in my mg zs ev to a 12v Lifepo4 battery.
One of the most senseless video ever watched..
Waist of time
Yep 12v is a problem on most EVs and ICE. Best bet is to buy a 12v booster of your own. Bought one a few years ago from Argos, it also has USB a compressor, 13amp plug socket and torch as well. Always travel with it on longer trips as thats when it would be a real pain if the 12v went flat. Only used it twice in 3 years, but boy was it worth it 300 miles from home, well worth investing in for peace of mind.
There is a hidden setting which needs to be enabled which will prevent this from happening. Not sure if it was enabled. It then periodically checks the battery and charges it. Tsllas do that by default and can't be turned off. More like Android vs iOS(setup everything vs setup only few things) approach and iOS being Tesla.
ICE cars have problems re 12 volt batteries too. All the computers that are on standby. EVs more so because they tend to use smaller batteries because they don't have to crank an engine.
The issue I have with 12v batteries in EVs is there's an enormous traction battery that could easily prevent the 12v depleting.
It’s that gadget he had plug-in heard Tesla driver replacing the 12v once a year the standard 12v battery on ev is crap so it’s a universal problem.
The best comment in the chat is using a more expensive 12v after a year for your own piece of mind and buying one of them cigarette lighter battery meter just like owning a ICE people do
This is weird. I have a electric motorcycle and it does not have a 12v battery. It uses a DC step down converter from the main battery. This should be in EVs too.
Gimme the Italian job Andrew.......)))
12V system is for safety reasons. In a accident the high voltage battery gets cut off. So aux battery will still be there for hazzard lights, Doors and etc.
I have enabled battery saver mode in my Ioniq. And has never had problems.
The difference between Teslas and a number of other electric cars re the 12V battery is that Teslas constantly monitor and charge the 12V battery from the main battery. So the only way you can get a flat 12V battery in a Tesla is if the main battery has very low charge - less then 10%? I'm guessing; I can't remember the exact value.
Have you heard any knocking or rattles from drive train, as several 1st edition owners have had problems.
No Richard this is a certain noise, it's on a forumn speak ev There is kia eniros in about six countries with the problem ,several of them have had motors and gear regen changed.
@@tomhickey1207 I was also concerned with this before I took delivery (September2019) but no problem.
Interesting video, again. Was starting thinking about that OVMS and the missing app compatibility in YM19. Do you know what hardware that is missing on the markets without app? To me It seems crazy if it is another infotainment console altogether in e-niro on the markets(Canada? US?) with app compatibility on -19, compared to our cars without app. My guess is that there is an empty slot/connector in my car where KIAs communication module would fit. Of course KIA won't let us retro fit with that module as that would reduce the -20 facelift to a bigger screen and 3-phase charging... So that won't happen.
OK let's clear some things up here. Most EVs discharge the 12v deeper than ICE cars do before recharging from the main battery and instead of using marine deep cycle lead acid they save about 2x the cost of a standard 12v lead acid and use a standard ice car battery. Naturally there are 2 easy ways to fix the issue. A) reprogram the BMS (battery management system) to recharge sooner and more often thus reducing range. B) use either deep cycle marine 12v or start mass production of 12v lipo battery packs.
'Happy New Year' - said Andrew, when CoViD-19 was already in the U.K., whilst we were being misled by the WHO, and the start of UK lockdown was in the process of being delayed until late March. I'm watching this in July, and am still in isolation.
I have a 2018 Nissan Leaf that also had the 12v battery go dead overnight. Fortunately, I had bought a Jump n Carry 12v lithium jump starter and it worked perfectly to the car going. No problems sense, although it is always in the car. I charge the jump starter periodically to keep it ready if needed again.
(I have a Niro PHEV) In the winter I get a message that the battery saving system has been activated almost every day. Think thats a system that charges the 12V battery from the main battery if the voltage is to low. Can anyone confirm this? Maybe Kia just have put a bad quality battery that wont handle proper winters in their cars?
Happy New year to you and yours, 10 year itch.? We’ve just reached the 10 x 5 haven’t stopped scratching. LOL.
You need a 12v supply to power all the std vehicle components and systems. You also need a way of bringing the main pack on line. A 12v switched signal normally does this. If you dont have a 12v auxilliary battery then the main pack has to be live all the while and running a DC to DC converter to give the 12v required. Many EVs have a way of moniting the 12v and do bring the DC to DC live to top it up as required.Others like the Allied conversions dont , and so the 12v will go flat in a couple of days. Having a 12v battery also allows the DC to DC to be smaller, the battery meeting the peak demands, ie when you have the heating on the wipers going, you are turning and braking, as well as indicating blowing the horn, while listening to some heavy metal at high volume. Then a few seconds a lot of the above isnt happening, the 12v battery will meet that peak and the DC to DC will top it up afterwards.
It also allows the Hazzard lights to work even after a shunt that could have shut down the main pack.
It’s true about the 1 gen leaf. Your Kia works the same as my Kona in as much as the high voltage battery should charge up the 12 volt battery. On our Kona there’s a small light at the front of the car that lights up when the 12 volt battery is being charged. I’ve seen this happen a couple of times, however I’m not sure whether this happens this happens when the car is running or plugged in or whether it happens even when the car is just parked
had a ICE car battery die on me when I had an ODB based black box attached and had not driven it for a couple of week.....
-4 that’s not cold . It’s -20 here and going to be -32 on Monday. Keep your battery charged.
Pre heat/cool I think charges the battery before you take it off the charger.
I have an ioniq and regularly I get the message in the morning aux battery saver used. So far my 12volt battery hasn't let me down, fingers crossed.
Did your e-Niro beep like mad when you first hooked up the 12v battery charger? Mine does that but it doesn't seem to have any adverse consequences. It stops eventually. I've just had my second flat 12v battery but this time I noticed I had left one of the reading lights in an on position. Even though it went off when I locked the car maybe it confuses the software?
I didn’t get the beeps, no. That’s a bit of a worry you had it go flat twice. Have you told Kia? A friend of mine took their’s into Kia and they determined there was a problem with a faulty charge sensor.
Get yourself a 12v combination jump pack. Good for jumping ICEd vehicles, Inflating tyres, powering work lights and charging the 12v battery in your EV.
I have a little portable battery pack now for jump-starting. Hopefully I won’t need it again!
I suspect a software bug. In NL a guy had a drain of the 12V battery due to a dashcam that was constantly recording fireworks that triggered the dashcam. Although I saw on my car the left light of the charging lights on the centre of the dash flashing which indicates charging the 12V battery while the car is switched off. So it seems that the car charges the 12V battery but not actively enough to prevent running it down.
Indeed. Years ago, I had a 12V battery failure which happened in an older Honda Civic (it was a diesel one with a 70 AH battery). Thousands of them were caused by a software error (I know a factory person who knew about it’s cause), which was fixed under warranty by updating the firmware of one of the gadgets. A short visit to the dealer was required for that. Occasionally, it could fail to switch off properly and could flatten the battery overnight. The dodgy item was supplied by Bosch to the manufacture, Honda. I suspect that faults like that happen to other cars, sometimes.
Thanks for sharing this issue. Instinctively, having been conditioned by ICE vehicle habits, we tend to think that driving the car will charge the battery. But is this true of EVs? This is all a bit vague on my 40 kw Zoe. No probs to date on the 12 v battery, but it would be useful to have it's graduated status displayed on the main display. Apparently, there is a warning light when its too late to fix it.
Like most of the country (!) I have a Kia e-Niro on order, so it would be good to know if there is an issue for newer models and if so how to resolve it. Is there a Kia e-Niro UK members club, as there is for the Zoe where these issues get an airing?
A passing thought. Have you hardwired dash cams? These will have an ongoing drain.
No, but I do have OVMS plugged in so that didn’t help!
Do we know what the configuration is of the battery pack ?
Good video. Please keep us informed on how the battery holds out so that I know what to look for when we get our car if the problem occurs. Many thanks .
I’ve got an idea for a video Andrew. Should I post it on here or email you (that sounds old fashioned now haha)
I’m intrigued, Glen! Yes, e-mail is best for me. I’ll try and obfuscate it to avoid the inevitable spam!... info[at]studiomoka[dot]co[dot]uk
Do you precondition the car in the morning? Bjorn pointed out that is when the DC/DC converter recharges the 12-volt battery in his MG.
I don’t tend to precondition, no. Perhaps I should start. I’m just too lazy to plug it in every night!
Andrew Till it might save the environment and you 150 £ per year in batteries.
If wipers run off the 12v why does range drop in the rain?
Its It's probably because of the drag on the tyres caused by the wet road.
Hi Andrew,
I'm also using OVMS on a Hyundai Kona which as you know is basically the same as the e-Niro. 12v battery drain is a known possibility on the HKMC cars so there are provisions in the OVMS firmware to help manage 12v usage. Specifically there is the option to shut down the OVMS unit if the 12v battery gets too low - this might be worth testing.
I also learned from the OVMS forums that the Aux battery saver function in the car will only boost the 12v battery 10 times before it considers there must be a fault, at which point it will no longer activate.
Had no issues in my Niro PHEV.
It does state that it uses the aux battery saver.
Then again the PHEV has two - yes two - 12 V batteries - one for the combustion engine in the engine compartment and one for the EV circuitry in the side of the trunk. Don't ask me why... funny system - the electric motor is even coupled through the DCT gearbox.... so it is a 6 speed EV...
waste
Andrew seems funny that battery dies like that like you say that battery should have given you a warning have you had the battery tested?
Still waiting on my E NERO !!
Happy New Year to you and Family
Still waiting for mine Jim, been told should be April or May time.
Dan Lovett when did you order ?
@@jimvince7877 I ordered mine last May, got an email from dealer last month, so will be a year wait, with my £1000 deposit, I'm expecting free mats for that!! You?
@@danlovett2158 Ordered mine end of March 2019 heard nothing from dealer yet ..
@@jimvince7877 Well hopefully you will hear something soon Jim, and make sure they sell you the newer one the first edition, I'll rather pay the extra for the better spec, good luck 👍