How the hell can some of these people write into rons show with such disrespectful and mean spirited questions?!? Buch of ingrates. Ron has to be one of the nicest guys ive listened to
Hi Ron, PhD in Engineering Mechanics here. Your measure of kinetic energy for a bullet is incomplete, and there is merit to the observation made by Kevin at 7:52. The traditional measure of kinetic energy depends only on mass and velocity is true only for a particle with zero size. the formula KE(translational) = 0.5*m*v^2 is only valid when we willingly ignore that a bullet has non-zero size, and traditionally is acceptable because the spin has been imparted to the bullets to just make them spin-stablized. This typically means we need slow twists for the large, relatively short big-bores (like a 1:20" twist for 45-70), and faster twists for smaller caliber with relatively long bullets (like 1:10" for a 243 win). Now, this might appear that a 45-70 is only spinning half as quickly as a 243, but you have to remember that a 243 is also flying about twice as fast as a 45-70 (say 3200 fps vs 1850 fps). The rate of rotation is the twist rate times the muzzle velocity, with a factor in there to convert into revolutions per minute: spin rate (in rpm)=720*twistrate*mv so a 45-70 will have a spin rate of (720*(1/20)*1850) = 66,600 rpm and a 243 will have a spin rate of (720*(1/10)*3200) = 230,400 rpm As you can see, that bullet flying out of a 243 is spinning almost 4 times faster than a 45-70 slug. Incidentally, this is why you will hear about varmint bullets "exploding" in mid flight when they are fired at high velocity from a barrel with too-fast a twist rate. For example, my hornady manual says a 223 loaded with the 40 gr v-max could have a muzzle velocity up to 3800 fps. This load is intended to be shot from a traditional 1:12 twist 223 rifle, but if you try this in a service rifle with 1:7" twist rate you'll get a light-jacketed bullet spinning at a wicked 390,000 rpm. These bullets have a tendency to explode in flight because the stresses induced by the fast spin tend to make the bullet to want to "open up" So how much energy is contained in a spinning bullet? The formula looks similar to the one above for a translating point mass, but instead of velocity we care about the angular velocity (i.e., the spin rate, the rpm) and instead of the mass of the bullet we care about the distribution of the mass about the axis of spin---the moment of inertia. without going into the calculus used to compute the moment of inertia from the bullet shape and density, let's simply approximate the bullet as a cylinder with the same bore diameter and an even distribution of mass. Then the moment of inertia, I, is given by: I = 0.5 * m * (d/2)^2 where m is the mass of the bullet and d is the diameter (bore). The rotational kinetic energy is given by the formula KE(rotational) =0.5*I*omega^2 here omega is the typical notation used for angular velocity (the spin rate, rpm in common usage) Therefore, the total amount of kinetic energy in a bullet is given by the formula: KE= KE(t)+KE(r)=0.5*m*v^2 + 0.25*m*(d/2)^2*omega^2 unfortunately, we use such a hodge podge mix of units for mass, velocity, spin rate, diameter, so that you end up needing a bunch of unit conversion factors, so the math here is tedious to work out by hand. yes, math in a youtube comment is an eyesore, here is an example: a 45-70 shooting a 300 grain, 0.458" diameter slug at 1850 fps will have a total kinetic energy of 2,285 fpe, with 2,280 fpe from the velocity and 5 fpe from spin, 0.2% of the bullet energy is in its rotation---you can see why we traditionally ignore rotational kinetic energy HOWEVER with a cartridge like 8.6 blackout shooting a 185 gr, 0.338" diameter bullet at 2200 fps, will have a total kinetic energy at the muzzle of 2,112 fpe, with 1,988 fpe from the velocity and 124 fpe from spin, so 6% of the bullet's kinetic energy at the muzzle is in its rotational kinetic energy. to put this in perspective, a CCI minimag 22lr has about 126 fpe energy at the muzzle. Bullets tend to slow down from drag, bleeding their velocity and kinetic energy; however, the drag on the bullet has very little impact on slowing the spin rate, so you tend to keep your initial rpms even as the velocity of the bullet slows. That means that you really get the bonus of delivering a extra blast of energy into the wound channel equivalent to a cci mini mag I feel like your dismissal of Kev's comment is based on the notion of traditional rifle energetics where the bullets have only a fraction of percent of energy contained in their rotation. Since the rotational kinetic energy is proportional to the SQUARE of the RPMs as well as the SQUARE of the diameter, you have the possibility to see big-bore-fast-spin bullets deliver non-negligible amounts of energy due to spin. Furthermore, stresses in the bullet induced from the high spin rate make a bullet "want" to open up. So in a sense, yes, bullet expansion should be enhanced. I think in the future we will see bullets engineered specifically to take advantage of high spin rate for enhanced terminal effect
As a retired Chemical Engineer and firearms owner/shooter for some 45 years, I really enjoyed that detailed explanation. I also believe your explanation is correct. Obviously, to take advantage of the additional terminal effect, there will have to be shift in how firearms are produced, not to mention the bullet design itself. But I would also point out that the energy that goes into the spin has to come from the same store of energy that propels the bullet (powder), and therefore if more energy is imparted in spin, some has to come from the linear translation side. What is interesting is the loss being more pronounced from the translational side than the spin side meaning overall it may be more efficient at the target. Sounds like more of the energy derived from burning the powder may be delivered on target. This is fascinating stuff to me and I will have to watch to see what else gets developed in the next few years!
Finally getting Engineers to comment on bullet performance……. I would like to see an analysis on long range shooting variables and why people should think twice about shooting game at ranges longer than 400 to 500 yards…😊
Thanks Tripplebeards. I photographed those CA valley quail near the Boise River in ID many years ago. Can make prints for those interested. Will have to figure out the cost.
All these new and "improved" rounds are great. But for those of us on a budget, we need to stay with whaf we have. Now that will depend on the person, their age and how they came up. At looking at 70 I use the tried and true .30-06 for most everything. As a recorder this cartridge will take ANY animal on this earth. Is it the best for everything? Maybe not, but a reloaded CAN make it work. Again thank you for the work you do. I have been following your writing (and vidios) since the early '70s'. Please keep up the excellent and exceptional work.
I don't worry about what others say about my choices in cartridges. Why? The over-opinionated do not fund my outdoor activities, I do. I have enough decent rifles to do what I want to do. I paid for them. To date, they work. Game in the freezer counts. However, you be you, whoever you are. I support that. The ability to choose is a big part of freedom.
for informational purposes, most hammer fired cz handguns should not be dry fired an excessive amount. The roll pin that retains the firing pin is a softer alloy that will wear out with around 2k dry fire hammer strikes. however their are companies who make harder ones that can be installed po7, p09, cz 75, shadow 2, ts2, etc..
Actually..A 30-06 with a 1-8" twist barrel shooting 210 to 225g high BC bullets with slow burning powders at Creedmoor velocies (2700-2800FPS) becomes a ".300 Creedmoor"...😊
Every cartridge made from the 30-06 is better than the original. Teddy. Roosevelt and the government knew this, and made it anyway because they didn’t want a metric system sounding cartridge for the military.
The 3006 is fine as it is! The deer, moose, bear and elk that I killed learned that the hard way! But hey the gun manufacturers need money, so let's PRC everything 😂😂
Read the article by Barsness in the latest issue of Sports Afield. He discusses twist rate by caliber. While a 1:7 or 1:8 in a 6.5 works well, a 1;10 in a 30 caliber is just fine. One topic never discussed is overstabilization.
I regret not buying a used 45-70 falling block that an LGS had. Was concerned about recoil from that heavy round in an extremely light carbine (lighter than any AR I’ve ever picked up.)
Could you please define " Objerating" I looked it up and nothing came up spelled a few different ways. The word was used at 32:38. Thank you and Best Wishes from Montana! M.H.
I used a 30/06 when i first started hunting. When i moved back to fla i picked up a .35 rem i wanted a .35 whelen but couldnt fi d one anywhere. Pre internet. I was gifted a 7mm-08 and its awesome. I saw 35 rem ammo selling for $80 a box at a show last week!😢. Glad i got a bunch when it was $15!😂
They are more powerful than what's needed. But most people want something a little better than what they already have. Improvement, at least that's the way we're "wired". Eventually, as we get older, we quit trying to improve, and just do/use what works for us. The journey may be unnecessary, but it's fun too.... that "itch" that we all need to scratch at some point. Eventually we feel accomplishment.
Ron, the problem with fish and wildlife is its gotten VERY political. Anti hunters are being put into the boards by govoners that also are anti hunting to direct the fish and game. They go against what field biologist and hunters are telling them by their data. Theirs an agenda to end hunting.
I agree with your assessment. I also think that part of the problem is that no “hunting” folks are going into wildlife fields. I’m not sure if they are being looked over or if no one wants to go into those fields and deal with the bs. Either way something needs to change and it’s not just dwr/dnr position’s.
I'm getting 2 hunting guns this year a savage scout in 450bushmaster for southeast PA deer it's a straight wall area. The 2nd I the 257 weatherby magnum for black bear this year in Northern pa. I get a new gun every year for bear and for the past 6 years they have been weatherby rifles.
On the wind deflection, where as you describe by dropping a bullet and firing a bullet the dropped bullet gets less deflection than the shot bullet makes sense. The dropped bullet only has the height of the drop for the wind to effect it. The shot bullet travels farther, this longer travel gives the wind longer to effect the bullet path.
Sorry! Wish I could control it. TH-cam sets where the ads happen. If you want ad free you can check out my Patreon, RSO TV or pay for TH-cam Premium. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your support. Hunt honest and shoot straight.
Safety in bear country could easily be bringing Ron with you to do a podcast. Ron could bore a Grizzly to sleep! If I I can't sleep I put on a Ron Spomer video and instead of sheep I count 6.5 Creedmores jumping over a fence! Works everytime for great night's sleep!!
Hornady had a great podcast about external ballistics and they did a deep dive on the effects of wind on a bullet. I don’t remember the episode but it was recent.
I think you weather vane thing is spot on. But here is something to think about. A bullet is usually spinning in one direction ether counterclockwise or clockwise. I don’t know if all manufacturers use the same or not. But if that bullet is spinning left and the cross wind is on the right blowing left is there more drift that if the directions are I. Opposition to each other. Just a question
Energy is energy whether is 1/2mV^2 or 1/2Iw^2. If that energy is transferred to the animal it can certainly be impactful. Especially if you have high rotation that transfers to petal expansion like you mentioned. With bullets spinning several hundred thousand rpm it could be like a blender blade working through the vitals. Some testing is definitely in order.
Hey Ron, love the podcast but I think you misspoke at 17:59. That would be chemical bonding wouldn't it? I thought mechanical bonding was something like an interlock.
The terminology got a little mixed, but in the grand scheme of things, it is not a big deal. Material scientists argue over specific terms like this after a few beers. In the current civilian ammunition market , the word "bond" most often means means soldered or electro-plated and "locked" usually means mechanically held into place without one of the components being melted during the joining process. It would not surprise me if some marketing terms are not technically correct.
And since this episode covered the falling block. Why is there no reasonably priced falling block rifles on the market ? I have been for years trying to find one in .45-70 that is UNDER a thousand.
Good show as always Ron. Love the 2nd Amendment Freedom Bells! You got me with the title... I was hoping you might be weighing in on the NRA Board of Directors election. Too many members don't vote at all, or just vote for the same old people that allowed the current mess. Is it really that hard to Google "NRA Board Election?"
Hi from Maine. I have a good problem that I need some advice. I hunt moose every fall and I use a 30-06 with 220 grain bullets. My question is this. Is it overkill? I rarely shoot 300 yards and was thinking that a new 180 grain with better trajectory might serve me better. My uncle uses a 6.5 creedmoore with 156 grain bullets and he seems to have good luck with that set up. I watch your show weekly and love the content. Sincerely Billy Phillips. Ps. We hunt on tribal land in Maine and crown land mostly in new Brunswick.
The heavier longer bullets typically out perform the lighter faster bullets past 300 yds due to retained velocity. If you rarely shoot out to 300 yds I would focus on speed and the point blank range of the bullet. Mnogizhget
Id go with the 165 barnes ttsx. 165-168 is optimal weight for a 30-06. It will give you a flatter trajectory, speed and penetrate like a 180 and better. Sight it in at 200 and your good to go.
I’ve head of a lot of people using 150-165 grains for moose in 30-30 and 308 win. I think you would be perfectly fine stepping down in weight. It might reduce recoil as well.
How many years did it take Remington to bring to market the .257 Roberts in the 1930s ?? It started out as a wildcat cartridge, then went into production by Remington.
Ned Robert's 257 (necked down 7x57mm Mauser) popped up about 1930. Remington legitimized it in 1934, keeping the Roberts title because they already had a 25 Remington for their 1906 autoloading rifle. It shot a 117-gr. bullet about 2,300 fps. The 257 Rbts. kicked this up to around 2,600 fps, and today's +P (higher chamber pressure) loads kick it to 2,800 fps.
Now. After all that. Question is, what do you sudjust for all copper bullets. The use is mostly easren whitetail deer. But the occasional coyote might appear in the sights.
The 6.5 creedmoor is nearly a ballistic twin to the 6.5 swede. It is a good cartridge, and easier to find ammo for it than the swede. Us luddites like to make fun of 6.5 creedmoor because 9 in 10 creedmoor users just bought their first high powered rifle and they think it is the best thing out there.
Also mirrors 7mm mauser pretty close as well. Which ialso a great round. Agreed, it's the hype from folks who don't realize what they got. Its not a bad cartridge, its just a comparable cartridge.
I don't get the controversy. I've had a 270 for 50 years and just bought a 6.5 Creedmoor as a tree stand rifle. They're both great and the deer can't tell the difference.
The problem is the legal system favors farmers from allowing hunting. Combine this legal responsibility with the lack of morals and respect that permeates society today, fewer landowners want anyone on their land. But the real issue is corporate ownership of land and other large landowners that take land out of that available to hunters. But the worst thing of all is population growth and the destruction of habitat that housing, businesses and roads create. Most of modern human activity is destructive of all habitat and most of it could put underground, out of the way, including housing. Population can’t increase indefinitely. The environment won’t sustain it. Since we are to be good stewards of the land, it’s way past time to start making the right decisions. You can’t live the way you want to. You can’t keep going through the same, destructive motions. You actually have to change. Otherwise, hunting and fishing are doomed through growth and the misuse of land and nature.
Hey Ron, regarding your herd management comments. It seems once game depts reduce tag allocations using any of those excuses, they never seem to increase them back to those previous levels. People should be skeptical of our game depts. they should also be skeptical of politicians who are legislating game management and “reintroductions”
Is there or has a study ever been made comparing rifling twist rate vs bullet weight length and powder types ??? I'm considering building a 45 cal capable of being a tack driving stop anything on the continent rifle... I would have thought by now some whizz kid would have developed a computer program ??? Just put in data an out comes results...
I tried the helping out a farm and ranch welfare recipient. 3 of us spent 12 days from sun up to sundown for lifetime permission. Then his next idea was, if we ore down a wind damaged pole barn, we would have lifetime exclusive hunting rights. All his idea and offering. Well, the POS, who can not get off his a** and get going changed the terms to do his work of any hunting. we didnt have a contract so if you do things like this, get a contract. If these clowns are going to accept tax payer farm welfare and disaster aid, the land should be open for hunting. If not , they do not need to accept our taxpayer money. its amazing that when something goes wrong with anything, someone with nothing has to pay into the tax pool and give multi millionaires their money. 2000 acres in my state is all of $2 million, maybe $4million if its crop. I could have a family farm if i could keep my money and not have to give it to the govt to give to the farm welfare program. Why dont we get our money back when they do well? It is a big scam, from the low interest loans to mine and your money, its bullshit. Dont let your public land go and fight for more. the farm organizations have that rigged too so things like Ducks Unlimited cant by land and make it public land.
😂😂 they almost ALL get Subsidized by tax payer money. I feel like your average person doesn’t realize that. Then they tell you that you can’t hunt. Privately owned property rights are a slippery slope for sure.
Love your podcast Ron, "but" all the gun podcast run the 6.5 creed into the ground all the hip & hate? , I bote one on a wim a few seasons ago, dont bragg on it just kill deer with it, a fella up the road ask me how I liked it, he hunts with a 243 I told him he wouldnt be gaining much, I like mine , mld. 70 extreme weather toped with hd3 , 4x14 cds., hands down most accurate hunting rifle I've ever shot and pleasant to shot, 2 moa. At400 yrds.thats what I would bragg about. 143 eldx @ 2688fts., I dont hear the hate for the .243 or .260, sometimes wonder what we'd talk adout if it wasn't for the 6.5 creed. Don't have any Helk in Indiana if we I'd use my mld. 70 30-06 178 gr.eldx , sorry for getin so long winded. The hick from French Lick😊
Heck, we were able to land man on the moon 55 years ago with way more primitive technology than we have today yet we are having MAJOR difficulties getting man back up there today. So, NO. Advancements in technology isn't always better or make the job at hand easier. Same goes with the older cartridges. They get the job done just as good as these fancy new ones at the ethical distances 99% of hunters should be shooting game at.
30-30, 30-06, Jack O'connor, Pat McManus, Elmer Keith, etc are all I need . The "modern stuff" bores me and is a waste of my time . Shooting game beyond 100 yards is actually guesswork, with the possible exception of pheasants and quail at close range . Oiled walnut, blued steel and craftsmanship..........
Our ancestors used spears and wood bows. That’s all I’ll ever need. These new 270 and 30-06 rifles bore me. Shooting at 100 yards is ridiculous. A real hunter will sneak up within 5 yards and use a spear.
R.S. --> Good video. You covered quite a bit of information and tips and ideas and suggestions. I.I.R.C., Ruger Number 1 single shot is also chambered in the .303 British cartridge. A very good cartridge that has killed game animals on every continent since the 1890's. Another You Tuber got one and showed it in a video. The one thing I might disagree with you on was about the question/statement from someone about the Fish & Game wardens and the F & G biologists / bureaucrats. Maybe it depends on what State (or Province) a person is in, but I get the feeling that some Game Wardens / State Fish & Game employees do NOT like hunters / trappers. They (some) are anti-hunting "Bambiists" and want the wild and open and (not city) areas all to themselves. ---------------- ------------------- -------------------------- --------------------------------- ---- ------------------------------ ----------------- ------------------ Per the question about single-shot rifles --- there is another type: The Rolling Block action. "Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Company", Big Timber, Montana, U.S.A. Makes Rolling Block single shot rifles. They make the "Sharps" Model 74 in various configurations and barrel lengths and calibers.
How the hell can some of these people write into rons show with such disrespectful and mean spirited questions?!? Buch of ingrates. Ron has to be one of the nicest guys ive listened to
It's the spirit of the times. Opinions are like aholes, everybody's got one and some give theirs out way too often.
Ron, you are a walking-talking encyclopedia of firearm culture with a GREAT personality, to boot! Thanks for ALL the info and wisdom, sir!
Thank you Gold!
Hi Ron, PhD in Engineering Mechanics here. Your measure of kinetic energy for a bullet is incomplete, and there is merit to the observation made by Kevin at 7:52.
The traditional measure of kinetic energy depends only on mass and velocity is true only for a particle with zero size. the formula
KE(translational) = 0.5*m*v^2
is only valid when we willingly ignore that a bullet has non-zero size, and traditionally is acceptable because the spin has been imparted to the bullets to just make them spin-stablized. This typically means we need slow twists for the large, relatively short big-bores (like a 1:20" twist for 45-70), and faster twists for smaller caliber with relatively long bullets (like 1:10" for a 243 win). Now, this might appear that a 45-70 is only spinning half as quickly as a 243, but you have to remember that a 243 is also flying about twice as fast as a 45-70 (say 3200 fps vs 1850 fps). The rate of rotation is the twist rate times the muzzle velocity, with a factor in there to convert into revolutions per minute:
spin rate (in rpm)=720*twistrate*mv
so a 45-70 will have a spin rate of (720*(1/20)*1850) = 66,600 rpm
and a 243 will have a spin rate of (720*(1/10)*3200) = 230,400 rpm
As you can see, that bullet flying out of a 243 is spinning almost 4 times faster than a 45-70 slug. Incidentally, this is why you will hear about varmint bullets "exploding" in mid flight when they are fired at high velocity from a barrel with too-fast a twist rate. For example, my hornady manual says a 223 loaded with the 40 gr v-max could have a muzzle velocity up to 3800 fps. This load is intended to be shot from a traditional 1:12 twist 223 rifle, but if you try this in a service rifle with 1:7" twist rate you'll get a light-jacketed bullet spinning at a wicked 390,000 rpm. These bullets have a tendency to explode in flight because the stresses induced by the fast spin tend to make the bullet to want to "open up"
So how much energy is contained in a spinning bullet? The formula looks similar to the one above for a translating point mass, but instead of velocity we care about the angular velocity (i.e., the spin rate, the rpm) and instead of the mass of the bullet we care about the distribution of the mass about the axis of spin---the moment of inertia. without going into the calculus used to compute the moment of inertia from the bullet shape and density, let's simply approximate the bullet as a cylinder with the same bore diameter and an even distribution of mass. Then the moment of inertia, I, is given by:
I = 0.5 * m * (d/2)^2
where m is the mass of the bullet and d is the diameter (bore).
The rotational kinetic energy is given by the formula
KE(rotational) =0.5*I*omega^2
here omega is the typical notation used for angular velocity (the spin rate, rpm in common usage)
Therefore, the total amount of kinetic energy in a bullet is given by the formula:
KE= KE(t)+KE(r)=0.5*m*v^2 + 0.25*m*(d/2)^2*omega^2
unfortunately, we use such a hodge podge mix of units for mass, velocity, spin rate, diameter, so that you end up needing a bunch of unit conversion factors, so the math here is tedious to work out by hand.
yes, math in a youtube comment is an eyesore, here is an example:
a 45-70 shooting a 300 grain, 0.458" diameter slug at 1850 fps will have a total kinetic energy of 2,285 fpe, with 2,280 fpe from the velocity and 5 fpe from spin, 0.2% of the bullet energy is in its rotation---you can see why we traditionally ignore rotational kinetic energy
HOWEVER
with a cartridge like 8.6 blackout shooting a 185 gr, 0.338" diameter bullet at 2200 fps, will have a total kinetic energy at the muzzle of 2,112 fpe, with 1,988 fpe from the velocity and 124 fpe from spin, so 6% of the bullet's kinetic energy at the muzzle is in its rotational kinetic energy. to put this in perspective, a CCI minimag 22lr has about 126 fpe energy at the muzzle.
Bullets tend to slow down from drag, bleeding their velocity and kinetic energy; however, the drag on the bullet has very little impact on slowing the spin rate, so you tend to keep your initial rpms even as the velocity of the bullet slows. That means that you really get the bonus of delivering a extra blast of energy into the wound channel equivalent to a cci mini mag
I feel like your dismissal of Kev's comment is based on the notion of traditional rifle energetics where the bullets have only a fraction of percent of energy contained in their rotation. Since the rotational kinetic energy is proportional to the SQUARE of the RPMs as well as the SQUARE of the diameter, you have the possibility to see big-bore-fast-spin bullets deliver non-negligible amounts of energy due to spin. Furthermore, stresses in the bullet induced from the high spin rate make a bullet "want" to open up. So in a sense, yes, bullet expansion should be enhanced.
I think in the future we will see bullets engineered specifically to take advantage of high spin rate for enhanced terminal effect
As a retired Chemical Engineer and firearms owner/shooter for some 45 years, I really enjoyed that detailed explanation. I also believe your explanation is correct. Obviously, to take advantage of the additional terminal effect, there will have to be shift in how firearms are produced, not to mention the bullet design itself. But I would also point out that the energy that goes into the spin has to come from the same store of energy that propels the bullet (powder), and therefore if more energy is imparted in spin, some has to come from the linear translation side. What is interesting is the loss being more pronounced from the translational side than the spin side meaning overall it may be more efficient at the target. Sounds like more of the energy derived from burning the powder may be delivered on target. This is fascinating stuff to me and I will have to watch to see what else gets developed in the next few years!
Finally getting Engineers to comment on bullet performance……. I would like to see an analysis on long range shooting variables and why people should think twice about shooting game at ranges longer than 400 to 500 yards…😊
Love the falling blocks. Ruger no-1 in 7x57 is most classic combination ❤ wish I had one.
The wisdom starting at 3:11 is just amazing. Thanks, Ron!
I love the gamble quail painting!
I was going to mention the quail as well. Not sure that they are Gambel's though.
Thanks Tripplebeards. I photographed those CA valley quail near the Boise River in ID many years ago. Can make prints for those interested. Will have to figure out the cost.
All these new and "improved" rounds are great. But for those of us on a budget, we need to stay with whaf we have. Now that will depend on the person, their age and how they came up. At looking at 70 I use the tried and true .30-06 for most everything. As a recorder this cartridge will take ANY animal on this earth. Is it the best for everything? Maybe not, but a reloaded CAN make it work.
Again thank you for the work you do. I have been following your writing (and vidios) since the early '70s'. Please keep up the excellent and exceptional work.
Great video man I love listening to you! Thanks again for sharing your stories and knowledge!
I don't worry about what others say about my choices in cartridges. Why? The over-opinionated do not fund my outdoor activities, I do. I have enough decent rifles to do what I want to do. I paid for them. To date, they work. Game in the freezer counts. However, you be you, whoever you are. I support that. The ability to choose is a big part of freedom.
for informational purposes, most hammer fired cz handguns should not be dry fired an excessive amount. The roll pin that retains the firing pin is a softer alloy that will wear out with around 2k dry fire hammer strikes. however their are companies who make harder ones that can be installed po7, p09, cz 75, shadow 2, ts2, etc..
RON: Compare the 30-06 to EVERYTHING! --- I bet a 1-7 twist in a 30-06 would make it the latest greatest! all over again, lol
Actually..A 30-06 with a 1-8" twist barrel shooting 210 to 225g high BC bullets with slow burning powders at Creedmoor velocies (2700-2800FPS) becomes a ".300 Creedmoor"...😊
Don't forget those tight throat dimensions, too.
Every cartridge made from the 30-06 is better than the original. Teddy. Roosevelt and the government knew this, and made it anyway because they didn’t want a metric system sounding cartridge for the military.
The 3006 is fine as it is! The deer, moose, bear and elk that I killed learned that the hard way! But hey the gun manufacturers need money, so let's PRC everything 😂😂
Read the article by Barsness in the latest issue of Sports Afield. He discusses twist rate by caliber. While a 1:7 or 1:8 in a 6.5 works well, a 1;10 in a 30 caliber is just fine. One topic never discussed is overstabilization.
I regret not buying a used 45-70 falling block that an LGS had. Was concerned about recoil from that heavy round in an extremely light carbine (lighter than any AR I’ve ever picked up.)
The Pronghorn vocalization was the best bit. You talked hunting, not shooting. Thanks.
Could you please define
" Objerating" I looked it up and nothing came up spelled a few different ways. The word was used at 32:38.
Thank you and Best Wishes from Montana! M.H.
Obdurate or obturate. I see it spelled both ways. Bullet expands to tightly fit/seal the grooves.
I used a 30/06 when i first started hunting. When i moved back to fla i picked up a .35 rem i wanted a .35 whelen but couldnt fi d one anywhere. Pre internet. I was gifted a 7mm-08 and its awesome. I saw 35 rem ammo selling for $80 a box at a show last week!😢. Glad i got a bunch when it was $15!😂
They are more powerful than what's needed. But most people want something a little better than what they already have. Improvement, at least that's the way we're "wired".
Eventually, as we get older, we quit trying to improve, and just do/use what works for us.
The journey may be unnecessary, but it's fun too.... that "itch" that we all need to scratch at some point.
Eventually we feel accomplishment.
Ron, the problem with fish and wildlife is its gotten VERY political. Anti hunters are being put into the boards by govoners that also are anti hunting to direct the fish and game. They go against what field biologist and hunters are telling them by their data. Theirs an agenda to end hunting.
I agree with your assessment. I also think that part of the problem is that no “hunting” folks are going into wildlife fields. I’m not sure if they are being looked over or if no one wants to go into those fields and deal with the bs. Either way something needs to change and it’s not just dwr/dnr position’s.
Used to use the 100 grain bullets for coyotes and deer. But haven't seen any lately did they stop making the 100 grain bullets.
8:30 the guy is talking about the 8.6 blackout with a 1:3 twist. On soft targets, the spin of the bullet adds MUCH more wound cavity than normal.
I'm getting 2 hunting guns this year a savage scout in 450bushmaster for southeast PA deer it's a straight wall area. The 2nd I the 257 weatherby magnum for black bear this year in Northern pa. I get a new gun every year for bear and for the past 6 years they have been weatherby rifles.
On the wind deflection, where as you describe by dropping a bullet and firing a bullet the dropped bullet gets less deflection than the shot bullet makes sense. The dropped bullet only has the height of the drop for the wind to effect it.
The shot bullet travels farther, this longer travel gives the wind longer to effect the bullet path.
a dropped and shot projectile hit the ground at the exact same time
The ttsx are fantastic i buy just the box vor-tx in 130 grain for my 308. It just drops deer. Wonderfully accurate as well.
48:51 - Don't know if anyone makes it but you could also have a rolling block...
This Ron Spomer guy keeps interrupting my ads!
Sorry! Wish I could control it. TH-cam sets where the ads happen. If you want ad free you can check out my Patreon, RSO TV or pay for TH-cam Premium. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your support. Hunt honest and shoot straight.
Safety in bear country could easily be bringing Ron with you to do a podcast.
Ron could bore a Grizzly to sleep!
If I I can't sleep I put on a Ron Spomer video and instead of sheep I count 6.5 Creedmores jumping over a fence!
Works everytime for great night's sleep!!
Hornady had a great podcast about external ballistics and they did a deep dive on the effects of wind on a bullet. I don’t remember the episode but it was recent.
I think you weather vane thing is spot on. But here is something to think about. A bullet is usually spinning in one direction ether counterclockwise or clockwise. I don’t know if all manufacturers use the same or not. But if that bullet is spinning left and the cross wind is on the right blowing left is there more drift that if the directions are I. Opposition to each other. Just a question
The spinning bullet creates spin drift. Wind deflection is a different force/effect.
Energy is energy whether is 1/2mV^2 or 1/2Iw^2. If that energy is transferred to the animal it can certainly be impactful. Especially if you have high rotation that transfers to petal expansion like you mentioned. With bullets spinning several hundred thousand rpm it could be like a blender blade working through the vitals. Some testing is definitely in order.
Hey Ron, love the podcast but I think you misspoke at 17:59. That would be chemical bonding wouldn't it? I thought mechanical bonding was something like an interlock.
It hasn't even premiered yet....
Molecular several different techniques. You are correct Interlock would be mechanical
The terminology got a little mixed, but in the grand scheme of things, it is not a big deal. Material scientists argue over specific terms like this after a few beers. In the current civilian ammunition market , the word "bond" most often means means soldered or electro-plated and "locked" usually means mechanically held into place without one of the components being melted during the joining process. It would not surprise me if some marketing terms are not technically correct.
And since this episode covered the falling block. Why is there no reasonably priced falling block rifles on the market ? I have been for years trying to find one in .45-70 that is UNDER a thousand.
You only live once, save and get a $2000+ dollar one, you won't regret it.
Really cool bell! Thanks
Good show as always Ron. Love the 2nd Amendment Freedom Bells! You got me with the title... I was hoping you might be weighing in on the NRA Board of Directors election. Too many members don't vote at all, or just vote for the same old people that allowed the current mess. Is it really that hard to Google "NRA Board Election?"
Read the Ruger mk11 manual,1st step is to make sure it is uloaded,2nd step to disassembly is to dry fire the pistol
Hi from Maine. I have a good problem that I need some advice. I hunt moose every fall and I use a 30-06 with 220 grain bullets. My question is this. Is it overkill? I rarely shoot 300 yards and was thinking that a new 180 grain with better trajectory might serve me better. My uncle uses a 6.5 creedmoore with 156 grain bullets and he seems to have good luck with that set up. I watch your show weekly and love the content. Sincerely Billy Phillips. Ps. We hunt on tribal land in Maine and crown land mostly in new Brunswick.
The heavier longer bullets typically out perform the lighter faster bullets past 300 yds due to retained velocity. If you rarely shoot out to 300 yds I would focus on speed and the point blank range of the bullet. Mnogizhget
Id go with the 165 barnes ttsx. 165-168 is optimal weight for a 30-06. It will give you a flatter trajectory, speed and penetrate like a 180 and better. Sight it in at 200 and your good to go.
I’ve head of a lot of people using 150-165 grains for moose in 30-30 and 308 win. I think you would be perfectly fine stepping down in weight. It might reduce recoil as well.
I would try a 165 bonded.
You guys had fun editing that intro!
Glad you liked it!!
Hello from Golden Valley Arizona
How many years did it take Remington to bring to market the .257 Roberts in the 1930s ?? It started out as a wildcat cartridge, then went into production by Remington.
Ned Robert's 257 (necked down 7x57mm Mauser) popped up about 1930. Remington legitimized it in 1934, keeping the Roberts title because they already had a 25 Remington for their 1906 autoloading rifle. It shot a 117-gr. bullet about 2,300 fps. The 257 Rbts. kicked this up to around 2,600 fps, and today's +P (higher chamber pressure) loads kick it to 2,800 fps.
Now. After all that. Question is, what do you sudjust for all copper bullets. The use is mostly easren whitetail deer. But the occasional coyote might appear in the sights.
Barnes
I like barns triple shocks and I have always get a pass thru.
@@neilbuckley6293 ttsx and lrx are very good too.
The 6.5 creedmoor is nearly a ballistic twin to the 6.5 swede. It is a good cartridge, and easier to find ammo for it than the swede.
Us luddites like to make fun of 6.5 creedmoor because 9 in 10 creedmoor users just bought their first high powered rifle and they think it is the best thing out there.
Also mirrors 7mm mauser pretty close as well. Which ialso a great round. Agreed, it's the hype from folks who don't realize what they got. Its not a bad cartridge, its just a comparable cartridge.
I don't get the controversy. I've had a 270 for 50 years and just bought a 6.5 Creedmoor as a tree stand rifle. They're both great and the deer can't tell the difference.
Its not just car insurance, crop damage is also a big one over here in the east as well.
The problem is the legal system favors farmers from allowing hunting. Combine this legal responsibility with the lack of morals and respect that permeates society today, fewer landowners want anyone on their land. But the real issue is corporate ownership of land and other large landowners that take land out of that available to hunters. But the worst thing of all is population growth and the destruction of habitat that housing, businesses and roads create. Most of modern human activity is destructive of all habitat and most of it could put underground, out of the way, including housing. Population can’t increase indefinitely. The environment won’t sustain it. Since we are to be good stewards of the land, it’s way past time to start making the right decisions. You can’t live the way you want to. You can’t keep going through the same, destructive motions. You actually have to change. Otherwise, hunting and fishing are doomed through growth and the misuse of land and nature.
I'd love to see an episode of you hunting in Alaska with Billy Molls
Need time stamps for those of us that dont have 50 minutes
Bullets will always deflect with the direction of the wind but rockets however will be deflected into the wind.
Falling blocks are so simple you could build your own.
Hey Ron, regarding your herd management comments. It seems once game depts reduce tag allocations using any of those excuses, they never seem to increase them back to those previous levels. People should be skeptical of our game depts. they should also be skeptical of politicians who are legislating game management and “reintroductions”
I think CVA makes a single shot and the rolling block is a single shot.. Pedersoli makes beautiful rifles.
Is there or has a study ever been made comparing rifling twist rate vs bullet weight length and powder types ???
I'm considering building a 45 cal capable of being a tack driving stop anything on the continent rifle...
I would have thought by now some whizz kid would have developed a computer program ???
Just put in data an out comes results...
Cool bells.
They are!
RON for vice president 🎩
Ron for president, Trump for vice president 😊 God bless
Rolling block is another single shot.
Winter kills are high because of poor management
I tried the helping out a farm and ranch welfare recipient. 3 of us spent 12 days from sun up to sundown for lifetime permission. Then his next idea was, if we ore down a wind damaged pole barn, we would have lifetime exclusive hunting rights. All his idea and offering. Well, the POS, who can not get off his a** and get going changed the terms to do his work of any hunting. we didnt have a contract so if you do things like this, get a contract. If these clowns are going to accept tax payer farm welfare and disaster aid, the land should be open for hunting. If not , they do not need to accept our taxpayer money. its amazing that when something goes wrong with anything, someone with nothing has to pay into the tax pool and give multi millionaires their money. 2000 acres in my state is all of $2 million, maybe $4million if its crop. I could have a family farm if i could keep my money and not have to give it to the govt to give to the farm welfare program. Why dont we get our money back when they do well? It is a big scam, from the low interest loans to mine and your money, its bullshit. Dont let your public land go and fight for more. the farm organizations have that rigged too so things like Ducks Unlimited cant by land and make it public land.
😂😂 they almost ALL get Subsidized by tax payer money. I feel like your average person doesn’t realize that. Then they tell you that you can’t hunt. Privately owned property rights are a slippery slope for sure.
A lot of land owners dont want hunting because of liability.
👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Need to thin out Wolves!
300prc 300wsm 300win and 300wby are all too much on deer lol
Not at all! I dropped a nice 8 point on New Year’s Day with 300 prc at a measly 120 yards.
CZ p07 can be dry fired!
Roling Block???
Remington Rolling Block action.
Love your podcast Ron, "but" all the gun podcast run the 6.5 creed into the ground all the hip & hate? , I bote one on a wim a few seasons ago, dont bragg on it just kill deer with it, a fella up the road ask me how I liked it, he hunts with a 243 I told him he wouldnt be gaining much, I like mine , mld. 70 extreme weather toped with hd3 , 4x14 cds., hands down most accurate hunting rifle I've ever shot and pleasant to shot, 2 moa. At400 yrds.thats what I would bragg about. 143 eldx @ 2688fts., I dont hear the hate for the .243 or .260, sometimes wonder what we'd talk adout if it wasn't for the 6.5 creed. Don't have any Helk in Indiana if we I'd use my mld. 70 30-06 178 gr.eldx , sorry for getin so long winded. The hick from French Lick😊
9mm democrat...45 republican
What? Are you talking pistol rounds?
I think the Dem. would probably carry a pack of bubble gum. 🙃
@@FranzAntonMesmer liberty defense brand ->fps
Heck, we were able to land man on the moon 55 years ago with way more primitive technology than we have today yet we are having MAJOR difficulties getting man back up there today. So, NO. Advancements in technology isn't always better or make the job at hand easier. Same goes with the older cartridges. They get the job done just as good as these fancy new ones at the ethical distances 99% of hunters should be shooting game at.
30-30, 30-06, Jack O'connor, Pat McManus, Elmer Keith, etc are all I need . The "modern stuff" bores me and is a waste of my time .
Shooting game beyond 100 yards is actually guesswork, with the possible exception of pheasants and quail at close range .
Oiled walnut, blued steel and craftsmanship..........
Our ancestors used spears and wood bows. That’s all I’ll ever need. These new 270 and 30-06 rifles bore me. Shooting at 100 yards is ridiculous. A real hunter will sneak up within 5 yards and use a spear.
None of those folks advocating shooting game past 100 yards have taken and successfully taken the Backfire Challenge!
Love Ya Ron, BUT you gotta STOP with that Bell!
Why?
GUN OWNERS BETTER GET OUT AND VOTE!!!
Politics is dangerous.
Nooooooo!!!!!!!
This “ cut your tag” stuff sounds like some hippie dippy vegan nonsense.
R.S. --> Good video. You covered quite a bit of information and tips and ideas and suggestions. I.I.R.C., Ruger Number 1 single shot is also chambered in the .303 British cartridge. A very good cartridge that has killed game animals on every continent since the 1890's. Another You Tuber got one and showed it in a video.
The one thing I might disagree with you on was about the question/statement from someone about the Fish & Game wardens and the F & G biologists / bureaucrats. Maybe it depends on what State (or Province) a person is in, but I get the feeling that some Game Wardens / State Fish & Game employees do NOT like hunters / trappers. They (some) are anti-hunting "Bambiists" and want the wild and open and (not city) areas all to themselves.
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Per the question about single-shot rifles --- there is another type: The Rolling Block action. "Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Company", Big Timber, Montana, U.S.A. Makes Rolling Block single shot rifles. They make the "Sharps" Model 74 in various configurations and barrel lengths and calibers.
All Fish & Game personnel and boards used to be fishermen and hunters. The danger now is WOKE folks working in these professions.