Amy Acker is such an incredible actress. To be able to switch between acting like the old Fred to Illyria, and to also be able to show Illyria so precisely without the makeup. To still look like Fred, but we can still see it's Illyria. It was sad when Fred died, but worth it to get to see her play Illyria. Every time she does that head tilt.
People thought at the time Buffy was actually supposed to be in this episode, turns out that was never part of the plan. Instead Dawn was supposed to be in it, when MT wasn't available they grabbed Tom Lenk instead, who is pretty much just saying the lines intended for Dawn. MT would have been 18/19 by the time this was shot, hence the idea of people changing and her no longer being a kid, which could have worked well I think. Its less successful having Andrew just wear a Tux. Former EP Tim Minear was supposed to return to write and direct this episode. But he had a last minute scheduling conflict (I think for the Moon is a Harsh Mistress). Instead it was wrote by Angel writers DeKnight and Goddard (who were both ex-Buffy writers). Angel Co-Creater David Greenwalt returned to direct the episode. Despite Greenwalt working on Buffy and Angel, and being the writer of Buffy's 'School Hard', the episode that introduced Spike, it was the first time James Marsters (Spike) ever met Greenwalt, as Spike never featured in any episodes Greenwalt directed, and he left both shows before Marsters became a regular. I disliked this episode when I first watched it. It seemed to be nothing but filler and a waste of the third last episode. In retrospect though it has some great character moments and is a fun re-watch.
Okay...minor Buffy Comic spoiler that totally recontextualizes this episode..... Turns out, that wasn't actually Buffy. She has a number of slayers around the world posing as her to obfuscate her actual location. It's a decoy partying and dating the Immortal. Andrew knows it's not her, and was actually just fucking with Spike and Angel because, as previously established, he doesn't 100% trust them since they are working for Wolfram & Hart. Its even implied Andrew knew Angel's spy found the Rome decoy and suggested she start publically partying and dating the Immortal, just to fuck with Angel. According to Buffy it was Andrew's idea for that decoy to do all this "He said it would be hilarious for some reason."
@@moondog3056At least it explains the whole Buffy been with the immortal cuz it’s not very Buffy like for her to be with someone like that, sure she’s been with people who aren’t exactly human but the immortal was pretty much a villain
@@Belnick6666 I actually kind of enjoyed that whole "Twilight" plot. It was ridiculous, but I found it fun (and thought of it as completely unconnected to the TV show - the comics - tho' supposedly "canon" - don't feel like it to me).
I think people really misunderstand the purpose of this episode. Buffy is such an important part of Angel's character and needs to have some sort of cap to it. Also, it's just a small rest stop before the end.
I thought this was a great innovative episode with the comedic Angel/Spike cuckolding by Buffy with some sparkling banter and the serious storyline of Wesley/Ilyria Fred with so much foreshadowing here again. It was so painful for Wesley seeing Fred as an exact double in front of her parents with the very same personality and mannerisms as Fred. The Italy storyline had some great flashbacks when Spike says to Angel about Rome in the 1950's and it's just everyone saying Caoi for a few seconds. We also have the Immortal cuckolding both Angel and Spike across the centuries too. Very funny slow motion fight scene in the nightclub a parody of Goodfellas or Casino with the music playing to the slomo fight. Final part with Wesley and Illyria in Fred's form is so painful for Wesley to experience. All in all a really good episode before the penultimate banger, and Buffyverse finale, the absolute peak in either show.
This seems to be a love it or hate it type of episode. I think it’s a lot of fun. The writers were in a tough spot, giving the audience one last update on Buffy before the show ends but without having Sarah Michelle Geller. This feels like just about the best way they could have done it. And it’s a funny episodes with a lot of fun buddy comedy bits between Angel and spike. The Illyria stuff is Amazon too. And seeing Amy Acker go from Illyria to Fred and back in an instant proves just how great she is.
Yet its not a final update on Buffy, that Buffy is a fake that Buffy is using to obfuscate her location from evil, it's just Andrew fucking with them because he thought it would be funny. Apparently its mentioned in a comic book or something, which is a dumb way of storytelling. They knew their TV run was ending so instead of properly making an episode out of it they shoved two plot points together into one episode and made it feel disjointed, then made a comic book issue explain it all.
They first suggested that the Immortal must have done those things to Buffy, mind control, love potion, spell, then later suggest doing those things themselves only to note that she'd never fall for any of that, too strong, too smart. Which hangs a lantern on the fact that the Immortal definitely didn't do any of those things, because Buffy would have seen through it.
But why would she want to constantly spoil things for herself and never be surprised? It's like she needs to be in control the whole time and can't stand any spontaneity or shock, despite the fact that such things are precisely what most people who view reactions want.
@@davidmeadows5627yeah, but if all reactors were the same, it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun, in my opinion; I like that different reactors have different styles, and that if someone doesn't enjoy a particular reactor's style, they can just move on to other reactors they like better.
If you are interested in following Amy Acker on TV, she was one of the stars of the X-Men spinoff series called The Gifted, where she played a nurse who was the mother of two mutant children. It was interesting to see her as the older, stronger woman on the show.
"I want to see what the Immortal looks like". Well try picturing Freddy Prince Junior? You missed the best scene, super stylish Spike and Dru in their Italian phase! It's so cool that the last sight of Buffy has her happy and dancing with her new beau, enjoying life as a young woman should.
Context: The Buffy we see isn’t even Buffy. They use magics to make a few people look like Buffy. This slayer was Selene I think. Or I’m way off on the name but yeah…Buffy at this time was in a magic coma!
This is an episode I enjoy, but which has absolutely horrible placement in the season. The previous episode is connected to the 2-part finale and this episode is a total mess in between them. But they really wanted to wrap up Buffy's story I guess.
No, it was great, a last fun nod to Buffy before the more serious storyline of the last couple of eps. I love it that the last we see of Buffy is of her dancing with her new beau, enjoying life as a young woman should.
Amy Acker is such an incredible actress. To be able to switch between acting like the old Fred to Illyria, and to also be able to show Illyria so precisely without the makeup. To still look like Fred, but we can still see it's Illyria. It was sad when Fred died, but worth it to get to see her play Illyria. Every time she does that head tilt.
The start of the last scene between Wesley and Illyria as Fred was just a knife to the heart.
"Wes, are you... like mad at me or something?"
People thought at the time Buffy was actually supposed to be in this episode, turns out that was never part of the plan. Instead Dawn was supposed to be in it, when MT wasn't available they grabbed Tom Lenk instead, who is pretty much just saying the lines intended for Dawn. MT would have been 18/19 by the time this was shot, hence the idea of people changing and her no longer being a kid, which could have worked well I think. Its less successful having Andrew just wear a Tux.
Former EP Tim Minear was supposed to return to write and direct this episode. But he had a last minute scheduling conflict (I think for the Moon is a Harsh Mistress). Instead it was wrote by Angel writers DeKnight and Goddard (who were both ex-Buffy writers). Angel Co-Creater David Greenwalt returned to direct the episode. Despite Greenwalt working on Buffy and Angel, and being the writer of Buffy's 'School Hard', the episode that introduced Spike, it was the first time James Marsters (Spike) ever met Greenwalt, as Spike never featured in any episodes Greenwalt directed, and he left both shows before Marsters became a regular.
I disliked this episode when I first watched it. It seemed to be nothing but filler and a waste of the third last episode. In retrospect though it has some great character moments and is a fun re-watch.
Okay...minor Buffy Comic spoiler that totally recontextualizes this episode.....
Turns out, that wasn't actually Buffy. She has a number of slayers around the world posing as her to obfuscate her actual location. It's a decoy partying and dating the Immortal. Andrew knows it's not her, and was actually just fucking with Spike and Angel because, as previously established, he doesn't 100% trust them since they are working for Wolfram & Hart. Its even implied Andrew knew Angel's spy found the Rome decoy and suggested she start publically partying and dating the Immortal, just to fuck with Angel. According to Buffy it was Andrew's idea for that decoy to do all this "He said it would be hilarious for some reason."
That is bad writing. Glad I never read the comics. Would have ruined the whole series for me.
the comic just went insane, started ok, but then she became a god, stronger than superman and faster than the flash, so #¤#¤ dumb
@@moondog3056At least it explains the whole Buffy been with the immortal cuz it’s not very Buffy like for her to be with someone like that, sure she’s been with people who aren’t exactly human but the immortal was pretty much a villain
@@moondog3056NO what they did to Buffys Character in this episode cause SMG wouldn't return is Bad Writing. If anything the Comics Retcon fixes it.
@@Belnick6666 I actually kind of enjoyed that whole "Twilight" plot. It was ridiculous, but I found it fun (and thought of it as completely unconnected to the TV show - the comics - tho' supposedly "canon" - don't feel like it to me).
I think people really misunderstand the purpose of this episode. Buffy is such an important part of Angel's character and needs to have some sort of cap to it. Also, it's just a small rest stop before the end.
I so hate this episode...
Fred's still ded, but her memories live on.
I thought this was a great innovative episode with the comedic Angel/Spike cuckolding by Buffy with some sparkling banter and the serious storyline of Wesley/Ilyria Fred with so much foreshadowing here again. It was so painful for Wesley seeing Fred as an exact double in front of her parents with the very same personality and mannerisms as Fred. The Italy storyline had some great flashbacks when Spike says to Angel about Rome in the 1950's and it's just everyone saying Caoi for a few seconds. We also have the Immortal cuckolding both Angel and Spike across the centuries too. Very funny slow motion fight scene in the nightclub a parody of Goodfellas or Casino with the music playing to the slomo fight. Final part with Wesley and Illyria in Fred's form is so painful for Wesley to experience. All in all a really good episode before the penultimate banger, and Buffyverse finale, the absolute peak in either show.
This seems to be a love it or hate it type of episode. I think it’s a lot of fun. The writers were in a tough spot, giving the audience one last update on Buffy before the show ends but without having Sarah Michelle Geller. This feels like just about the best way they could have done it. And it’s a funny episodes with a lot of fun buddy comedy bits between Angel and spike. The Illyria stuff is Amazon too. And seeing Amy Acker go from Illyria to Fred and back in an instant proves just how great she is.
Yet its not a final update on Buffy, that Buffy is a fake that Buffy is using to obfuscate her location from evil, it's just Andrew fucking with them because he thought it would be funny. Apparently its mentioned in a comic book or something, which is a dumb way of storytelling.
They knew their TV run was ending so instead of properly making an episode out of it they shoved two plot points together into one episode and made it feel disjointed, then made a comic book issue explain it all.
I wonder if anyone told Cordelia's parents about her death?
It's not contacts, makeup, etc. She can alter her body at will, remember.
I've always thought Amy Acker is one of the most beautiful women in the Whedon's universe, but she is really pretty in blue.
They first suggested that the Immortal must have done those things to Buffy, mind control, love potion, spell, then later suggest doing those things themselves only to note that she'd never fall for any of that, too strong, too smart. Which hangs a lantern on the fact that the Immortal definitely didn't do any of those things, because Buffy would have seen through it.
Can I just mention I've been watching your reactions for quite some time now ,and you are like impressively smart on the way you predict things
But why would she want to constantly spoil things for herself and never be surprised? It's like she needs to be in control the whole time and can't stand any spontaneity or shock, despite the fact that such things are precisely what most people who view reactions want.
@@davidmeadows5627yeah, but if all reactors were the same, it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun, in my opinion; I like that different reactors have different styles, and that if someone doesn't enjoy a particular reactor's style, they can just move on to other reactors they like better.
If you are interested in following Amy Acker on TV, she was one of the stars of the X-Men spinoff series called The Gifted, where she played a nurse who was the mother of two mutant children. It was interesting to see her as the older, stronger woman on the show.
th-cam.com/video/oxzHsCsjmMM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DRuWUnz6DVl40sFx
th-cam.com/video/e5U96OI7e5E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xxQuWZiD6zhsmRNn
She also played on 911 lone star for awhile
I adored Fred but I love that Amy Acker got to play something so different.
"I want to see what the Immortal looks like". Well try picturing Freddy Prince Junior? You missed the best scene, super stylish Spike and Dru in their Italian phase! It's so cool that the last sight of Buffy has her happy and dancing with her new beau, enjoying life as a young woman should.
She didn't miss it, it just wasn't edited into this reaction.
The original idea was to have Willow bring back Fred, but there just wasn't enough time because of Angel being cancelled.
This is like John Wick 2 with the other branch of The Continental...
Context:
The Buffy we see isn’t even Buffy. They use magics to make a few people look like Buffy. This slayer was Selene I think. Or I’m way off on the name but yeah…Buffy at this time was in a magic coma!
Ciao.
I enjoy the B storyline more than the A soryline of this episode.
This is an episode I enjoy, but which has absolutely horrible placement in the season. The previous episode is connected to the 2-part finale and this episode is a total mess in between them. But they really wanted to wrap up Buffy's story I guess.
One of my least favorite eps. But i generalky dont like when writers blatantlu nerf characters for conedic affect.
I loathe this episode. Three episodes left and they wasted one on this. Fred/Wesley stuff was the only good thing here.
You don't think Buffy is important?
@@davidmeadows5627Not ruining Buffys Character cause SMG wouldn't return would be important. Luckily the Comics fix this ABOMINATION 🥱
No, it was great, a last fun nod to Buffy before the more serious storyline of the last couple of eps. I love it that the last we see of Buffy is of her dancing with her new beau, enjoying life as a young woman should.