@@natedizzlefoshizzleIf you're not spending every single round on the toughest extremis to the frailest minoris, then you're not playing heavy right. It means you're not firing your weapon all the time and as a Heavy, your finger should be practically glued to the fire button. You disgust me.
@@janitordroidjenkins7081 Nope. I use heavy bolter and get 20-30k dmg per game and rarely completely run out of ammo. You should take your nose out of your rear, pal.
@@JebblesJunior the only one other than Stalker or Grenade launcher is the Instigator, and that's far below both options. The poor carbines and auto bolts are just confetti guns
I'm a hard defender of lethal. But I do think the armor leash is a little limiting playstyle wise and a little nonsensical on some missions where you kinda have to range out from your group. But fighting three lictors at once and having your team actually cover you might just make it worth it.
the game should never send more than 1 lictor at you. Saber wants to respect the lore so much they aren't willing to let us customize heretic astartes armor, but they let 2 lictors attack at once? thats some grade A BS and would never happen
@@MrThatpersonthatguy I guess if you truly want to stay lore accurate, 3 marines wouldn't be able to complete any of these missions. With the exception of a few helmetless characters.
The main problem is most people just can't play as a team. If someone looks like they have low health, maybe instead of snatching that stim for yourself, allow them to take it, cos they can't help you if they're knocked out on the floor or dead. Or if you have a heavy or tactical maybe let them take ammo as a priority, because their melee is limited
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 similarly, prioritize vanguard and assault for the armor boosts since they spend the most time in the enemies' face apart from Bulwark, who already has good armor. Or give it to whomever is currently carrying the gene-seed. It's simple stuff
i have been playing with 2 friends. one of them thinks of themself as the hard carry every mission. the other doesnt seem to really care about much. i play bulwark and the hard carry likes to micro when and how i use my banner. carry guy also cannot seem to get enough stims to save their life ontop of me constantly trying to keep them alive with constant banner heals. then i found another group of people to play with and when we all saw the first medkit of the mission we each pulled our guns on each other like that one scene from pirates of the Caribbean threatening each other to take the medkit because everyone valued the team or teammates more than themself.
The main problem is most people don't have two bran cells to rub together? Don't need the armour? Steal the execution anyway. Too much aggro on you? Toss grenades at the bulwark so he misses parries so you get even more aggro on you. Getting angry at the snipers who give you a warning laser before they shoot you? Do absolutely nothing about them. When people blame the game (they always do), they cease to see reason to learn anything. And you know they know deep down that it's their fault, because of how violently they react when you dare to suggest you're not having the same problems.
@@JebblesJunior honestly the way it works needs to be completed overhauled. If it was simply a buff for being together it would be fine. But for a game like Space Marine 2 it doesn't work. Definitely not a stick together all the time type of game.
@@JebblesJuniorI love lethal but its just hella bugged. No armor restore when last alive is stupid af. Also cohesion radius should be doubled AT LEAST, space marines do not need to hold hands
My idea is a more dynamic version of the mechanic. Maybe making certain classes have wider areas than others so it doesn't hurt as much when they have to split from the group to deal with high value targets i.e: Assault gets wider range to account for mobility v.s heavy have a smaller area because he generally wants to stick to his team anyway
Lethal isn’t that hard - but the team tether really isn’t that fun. I don’t want to have to be sniffing my teammates farts to be able to earn armor back.
The only real complaint I have about the difficulty in the game is the stun locks, I think those can be pretty broken and you'll die almost instantly in some cases
I think rampaging ranged enemies specifically need to be adjusted a touch cause they just back up and shotgun while never engaging melee or being staggered.
@@JebblesJunior yeah I do think some of the bigger weapons should stagger more. The enemies seem like they can break out if that first stun and you have to either dodge or get ready to parry by the 3rd hit while if you get stunned you kind of get stuck and can be stunned again because of the animation it does. There should be like a second invisibility window or something after the animation so it doesn't just happen again right after
I tried a hard difficulty operation a couple days ago (blanking on the actual name but I'm a halo vet so that's what it defaults to in my brain) because i wanted to give it a go on my bulwark, my highest level class. Level requirement is 10, I'm 13 at this point, i figure it'll be a bit of a step up from normal, so a bit of a challenge, but still pretty doable. I was very wrong. We finished it and everything, but it was *rough* to the point that i don't even want to even think about lethal until I've got another 10-20 hours into the game, and i also immediately went back to normal difficulty until I've got more levels and unlocks for bulwark and I've ranked up more classes. Halo 2 Legendary played a major part in my formative years. I know what real pain is. This is nothing more than a minor setback
@@setsunachiame oh yeah, wouldn't surprise me if my loadout quality is lacking as well, I'm just willing to admit that probably a solid 70 percent of my struggle was objectively a skill issue (for now, at least)
I’m a bit sad, played lethal with some friends on Inferno, I was having a good time while one of my friends who refuses to play any other class than Tactical was getting violated. Even though myself and my other friend was practically dragging his ass through the mission we got jumped by four Lichters. We failed the mission, I found it funny as fuck getting mogged but now that one dipshit friend refuses to play lethal. Absolute skill issue that he refuses to acknowledge (he’s a bit of an egotist).
@@JebblesJunior feels good, just completed my first lethal mission. With randoms to boot, difficulty pretty fun, maybe give another 10-20ft to the armor radius and maybe people will stop bitching.
@@JebblesJuniorfinal update, sat down with the one non-shit friend and a random who became our ride or die and completed all missions back to back. We where up till 4am but it was worth it.
As someone who recently started playing, i feel like its a mix between the class the player uses and the combination of the team mates. In the lower difficulties ive been able to both die mid mission or blitz through it flawlessly
I've got a clip from my first Lethal run - a carnifex charged and dropped ALL OF US with the charge. My buddies and I laughed for quite a few minutes before trying it again. Only one down, felt badass. Lethal is.... lethal. Holy shit! Who would've thought.
I cannot fight carnifex for the life of me. It always fakes me out and then stun locks me into a paste. I can handle literally everything else but a carninfex atm
When they nerfed ruthless, they told me to f"ck off and just wait for lethal. When they complained about lethal, they told me to f"ck off and play a different game. Coincidentally I came to Space Marine 2 because the Helldivers fellows also told me to f"ck off and play a different game if I didn't like how easy it got.
Got the Helmet a few hours ago. I was annoyed the whole time as I finish the ops. I actually did the unthinkable and took a break from the game after getting it. Sorry brother Jebbles, I usually agree with you but not this time. I dont care about the new spawns, ammo nerfs, parry nerfs. Didnt even notice anything. Im an assault main. I can only count with my fingers, I can only form 3 syllables max. Those shi doesnt affect my smooth brain. But this godang Tight Formation isnt it. I dont wanna hug 10 foot tall men and ask them for comfort, I got a jetpack and for god's sakes Imma use it. Though I got the helmet, I didnt cared for it, nor did I care if I was good on this game or not. All I cared about was the mobs. They were all mine, mine to do with as I please. My teammates where there to watch me transform into a meteorite and crash down on the ground and remind everyone how the giant lizards died. Thats all I cared about. This tight formation punished me for that. Here's the worse part. I still succeeded without changing my ways. It was just that, an annoyance, a headache, a pain in my urethra. Something we did not need. A gigantic rock falling down from heaven doesnt need to think. I'm a rock. Thats just me though
Ok but what the fuck do I do against a carnifex, a pack of lictors and a pair of neurothropes on top of what feels like billions of minors and majoris enemies? don’t you think that’s a bit much?
Dedicated range unit handles Zoeys (I'm assuming that's what you meant) Horde clear handles minors and chunks majors while range chips in. Lictors (since there is at most two at this point) are nuked with skills or gun strikes. Melee is keeping Carni focused on them with evasion until the rest can chip in.
@@JebblesJunior I did mean zoeys my bad also I’ve yet to find a team competent enough to do any of what you just said without instantaneously being turned into paste even at full shields and health
@@nonna0157 Well to put it bluntly, if your team is bad you should lose on the highest difficulty yes. It's a team based gamemode, if your teamwork sucks, you lose. That's how it should be. Do you play counter strike or something like that and then complain that the game is unfair because your team doesn't work together? Do you play an MMO RPG like world of warcraft, and then say it's unfair that you lose the bossfight when your healers don't heal? of course you god damn don't. So why is space marine 2 any different? If your team doesn't work together on the highest difficulty, they should lose. Is that annoying when you get bad randoms? yes of course it is. But that's not the game's fault.
No, I don't think that's too much. Zoans should be instantly deleted with little problem. Lictors are easy to parry to death. All you have to do is position yourself to avoid the carnifex until you can make the space to deal with it. It can't target all three of you at once. This isn't even a frequent occurrence. If you can't find a team competent enough to do any of that then they have no business playing lethal. I've already been pushed out of Helldivers, being told to f"ck of and play another game if I didn't like how easy it became. When I complained they nerfed ruthless I was told to f"ck off and play lethal when that comes out instead. Now that lethal is out, the difficulty that was suppose to be MY difficulty is complained about, and once again I'm told to f"ck off and play another game. I bought a game I knew was hard, they bought a game they knew was hard, why am I the one being constantly pushed out?
I agree with you about everything in this video except one thing: people who's friends don't have the game can't really play lethal because there's no way randoms can lock in enough to make the tether work.
@@rossgadsby9663 I tried it like 5 times and none of them worked, I was playing fine, trying to stick close to the assault or vanguard, while I was on bulwark, but they kept running away
I just want the sword for my Bulwark. Me and my brother rocked Inferno for like 3 hours on Lethal until we finally got it down. Only thing we don't like are getting hit with 4 neurothropes, 3 licters and a Ravener all at once.. that is something we weren't ready for in any way lmao
I will admit those "suprise" rushes really need to be capped at like 5 enemies with max 3 copies Like it's straight unfun hitting 7 and getting teamwiped by bad rng
I love Lethal, I'm not amazing at the game by any means but I've gotten through about half the missions just fine and the other half with blood and tears. It's a very fun addition to the game, and when I feel like a break from that level of sweating my balls off, I drop it down a level or two. I personally haven't noticed the Armor Leash too much, as a bulwark player I'm usually around the team anyways, and the times I do go down are usually times I would have been in deep shit even without the Armor Leash. So for me it's less of a "this mechanic sucks" and more a "I need to cover my team extra" type thing. Should the range of it be widened? Absolutely, could it be removed? Sure, but for me it's just another reminder that this is a team game and that I need to make extra sure I am helping and taking care of my team mates.
Lethal difficulty is great, but the changes they released with it, and the armor leash are not. We should not be punished for leaving 20 ft radius of team, sniper and assault are required to do this if they want to use their loadout most effectively. Lethal difficulty armor leash removes player agency and punishes the player for skilled play. It forces a linear playstyle that is boring. Meanwhile, if you are the last brother remaining, you dont get any coherency and no armor regen, good luck surviving for 300 seconds with no armor. These balance changes are in direct contradiction of the changes released in the previous patch, what was the point??? This is what needs to happen imo. Revert all nerfs to armor and power fist. change the coherency mechanic to reward players instead of punish them, buff bolt weapons. If you want to up the difficulty you can do so in many other ways, increase enemy count (which they did), less consumables, increased enemy aggression, add new enemies, give us less health, and more, just leave armor alone, it should be the same across all difficulties.
I can see reasonability in having armor values the same across the board. Those changes were mostly to compensate for the infinite armor provided by the parry mechanics. As for the tether, I main assault and sniper, and I've been headlining carryfest 2024. It only punishes people that choose awful positioning, as it should.
I do think there are certain tweaks they could make like giving back the old roll and adding a more dynamic version of the tight formation mechanic, but other than those two I think the difficulty is good. The only other thing I can think of is adding more rewards to incentivise playing on lethal.
While i havent played space marine 2 i feel like poeple forget that yes a space marine can get his shit pushed in and that space marines arent deployed in large groups either From a purely lore look lethal seems like the exact depiction of what a kill team of space marines have to go through and people are mad they cant have their power fantasy of big man kill, even tho they can just not play lethal and go back to the other difficulties
As a Bulwark, the only real issue I have with Lethal are Zoanthropes. To be fair they're a pain in any difficulty, but lethal seems to send a duo of them at you 30 seconds after you killed the last. Brings me to an issue where I feel like the Plasma weapons are underpowered, purely because the regular shots do basically nothing, and so with the plasma pistol you get maximum about 15-20 shots, depending on which one you take. That grouped with the added health making the primary way for a bulwark to deal with Zoanthropes, the Krak grenade, making it take two to down them, as well as the constantly swapping shield buff, makes it a pain in the ass to deal with them in between dodging their attacks (the insane amount of them that there are), and thats without dealing with a swarm or a god damn Carnifex at the same time. Yeah I making this multitudes harder for myself by playing solo, cause the bots do literally nothing at times. The only legitimate issue to take away from this is that I feel the Plasma needs a bit of a buff.
@@JebblesJunior yeah, the bolt pistol handles them a lot better, however I’ve lost games to the bolt pistol as I’ve been unable to stun or clear hordes off of the objective, such as the generators on “Inferno” or the train in “Ballistic Engine”.
I uninstalled and left a bad review after three weeks of updates being little more than "Balance" patches that were "Fixing" things no one asked to be fixed. Dodge changed, parry changed, servers still crashing constantly. Bolters not fixed. Cosmetics still being mid at best. I have every class and weapon to max other than the shitty bolters and powerfist i just didnt like the play style on. I was having fun until even the easier missions i played for a quick run turned into a slog fest of just constant waves because the Harder difficulty was supposed to be new not change Every other level. Mobs spawning and calling waves in behind walls you cant even reach. a tether mechanic that wasnt asked for nor even makes sense if you cant prepick your team or recruit specific players playing specific class'. All range or all melee for instance. I didnt play helldivers.. was too busy farming ffxiv savage raids which makes hard in these games look like a pride parade. Devs need to focus on fixing the true issues and not wasting my time with mobs that eat 4 clips to the face and dont even stagger. 5 min respawn due to being hit through a ceiling and one shotted through a wall? Killed like some guardsman cosplaying as a space marine. Yeah fuck that. I'll play a game with mechanics that make a game challenging but fun.. not just add a shit ton of health to mobs making it feel like im hitting a target dummy and make my fully upgraded kit play like im in all gray gear with a level 1 while trying to learn an entirely new playstyle for some reason that makes no sense. More mobs and more mechanics that arent bugged to shit make it challenging but fun.. not glitches and shit "Balance". Bitch as you call it is what I call having standards while you just sound like a simp for the devs who havent fixed a damned thing bug wise other than the things helping the player side like better healing or the likes which I say should of been fixed but better yet should of been fixed With the bugs that screw the players over as well.
@@JebblesJunior Just like your opinions. Which wont age well as the numbers are showing. Might want to try going back to the community of helldivers you left with your trash talk before it gets you into trouble. Proving the point you losers game hop destroy things with trash takes and move on.
I love how hard lethal is but I completely disagree about the having to be so damn close to your teammates to get armor. A sniper is not suppose to be up and close in a fight. A vanguard is suppose to get close and stop the reinforcements this makes it so you can't even play certain classes properly the way they are intended to be played. I am not complaining about the game being too hard but that shit is a joke. You don't need that for teamwork to be a thing. Making the difficulty actually hard in general makes you need to work as a team. Also there's a lot of bullshit bugs. I mainly play as bulwark and so many of my perks are not even working. Using your banner to get make congested health back doesn't work the new bulwark thing where as long as your teammates have one stim and you drop your banner and they are supposed to heal a mortal wound is not working properly. Everything else I do agree with it's suppose to be a challenge and that's the fun in it. It's suppose to make you think and not be easy.
The point of cohesion is to punish overextending and poor positioning. I could see the boundaries expanded, but without it, Lethal is just ruthless pt 2. There needs to be a defining feature to make it more difficult.
@JebblesJunior that's just the thing they are going to add modifiers to lethal to make it "lethal" again but cohesion is just a garbage mechanic and i beat lethal for all ops, even if you think it punishes poor positioning and that's just a shit take cause it limits classes like sniper which is supposed to give cover fire not be so close to teammates to be be able to smell what they had for breakfast, and vanguard is supposed to be up close and personal not with the team and assault is the same way the cohesion area would have to be so fucking wide to support all classes.
I love the new difficulty, my only complaints are the fact of the mines, which get to be a bit much on any difficulty, and the armor range. Some classes work quite well with a bit of distance from the group. It's a nice dynamic but sometimes a bit more breathing room, or perhaps when you are the last survivor you should get the tether :)
i played with my duo as a bulwark/heavy team, we really like the tether mechanic but it needs some changes like wider range and disabling it for last man alive imo
Oh hey so I'm not alone in thinking Lethal's fine? Even with the "stay in formation", we managed to get through most of Decapitation just fine with nobody going down. We were on low health for most of the run yes, but we still made it to the Tyrant. Got him down to phase 2 as well with relative ease, buuuut... thats when we learned that Lethal Tyrant isnt playing games. Those green psyker-blade thingies he slashes with from time to time.. ..they got all 3 of us. A 5 minute respawn is perhaps a bit too heavy a punishment as well. And considering people wont stop complaining about the cohesion, they could instead alter it so your ability has a 50 or even 80% slower recharge when not in cohesion. You still get punished, but at least your survivability wont suffer for it.
The difficulty (outside of the dumbfuck coherency mechanic) is honestly great. Once they fix or change that mechanic i'll play it, until then I cant be bothered to try (and fail) at ignoring the constant annoyance made by the coherency mechanic. [And no, its not a skill issue, i can do the missions, its just so stupidly annoying that i cant be bothered 😂]
This has been the opinion of me and 3 of my other friends that have done lethal. It does not need changed in the slightest with 2 sniper mains a bulwark and tactical/vanguard player we cleared all the missions with very little difficulty but that might have been cause we do this crazy thing called teamwork but i think people have blown out of proportion how hard lethal actaully is. Its just ruthless but they hit slighgly harder and have more health thats it to me and my friend group
My complaint is things like the random homing death balls from zoanthropes and neurothropes, and some of the buggy ass shit that's been cropping up like some guy standing in front of me misses a parry; I parry too because muscle memory, but I get hit because fuck me; venom cannons shooting through walls or quick scoping on ascent with a jet pack (wtf?); getting occasionally one shot from full armor and over half health by a zoanthrope beam clip; and the sporadic literal quarter second or less icon to grab from lictors and raveners. Just random wtf crap mostly. The patch has been pretty cool outside of that, although I do think they should have done something different for lethal than squad cohesion. Nerfing mechanics for your character should be a no go. Even making enemies do more damage and then a damage reduction buff to counteract it would make more sense.
as of the making of this comment, i have done 3 of the 7 missions including the newest one on lethal difficulty, all with randomly matched squads...i agree that the whole point of lethal is to beat your anus, and at least you can still do ruthless if you want the materials to upgrade your weapons to relic tier.
Oh hey a JebblesJr vid on my B-day, what a treat! But in all seriousness I'd say all things considered the update wasnt all that bad, things just got blown out of proportion for those who had it easy before. We got a new challenge and by the Emperor's name we rose up to it.
I might wait until future patches slightly change the mechanic of the tether. I’ll still probably try to do Lethal solo. Not because I think I’m better than everyone, (I’m pretty trash) but because I don’t have many friends to coordinate effectively with. I’d rather be a burden to myself due to lack of skill than cost someone else a lot of progress.
I still think Lethal’s issues stem from the Cohesion system and the fact that several class and weapon perks feel lackluster or checkpoints. However, I do have issues with the AI director changes resulting in an absurd number of Devourer, Venom Cannon, or Barbed Strangler Warriors was a massive oversight. They moved the shield Tzanngor issue to spamming Majoris enemies in annoying amounts. But the ammo restrictions and damage I think can work.
@@JebblesJunior speaking from a guy who has around 450 hours logged in Darktide, playing on Damnation then getting his ass handed on a regular when attempting Auric modifiers, and another 150 in SM2 with good success on Ruthless, this system is, at best, a severe stunting. I won’t repeat the arguments, but if Saber wanted this to be a thing, it should have been tied to the PvE mode from the start of development. A cohesion system only works if it gives incentive for the team to not only stick together, but also boost their power. The only thing SM2 system does is keep one of the core fundamentals of the game, one that old SM fans had a gripe with, functional, breaking down the instant someone needs to overextend to deal with ranged spam, reinforcement calls, or God Emperor forbids, someone is waiting to respawn. You cannot let players have something to use that if fundamental to gameplay, then take it away without offering something equal or incredibly tempting in return. That was Helldivers 2 issue, when they kept needing weapons based on pickrates instead of realizing players were using what actually was effective at the time. The system needs to go, or needs a serious overhaul at bare minimum. My suggestion would be to copy FatShark’s homework, and bake the system in from the ground up, including perks that work while in or regardless of cohesion, and drive that incentive to stay together without completely neutering the team.
Not locking anything other than a couple of cosmetics behind the Lethal diff seems like an obvious message from the Devs that they don't intend for a good chunk of the playerbase to be able to reliably beat it, or at least not beat it reliably immediately after it dropped.They didn't really have to design it to be anything other than utter chaos and carnage, because nobody NEEDS to beat it to get an advantage in the game. I enjoyed grinding through all 7 missions for the cosmetics, but I doubt I'll spend too much of my time moving forward on that diff because I often just want to relax and help newcomers level up classes/weapons, and I don't NEED to play Lethal to progress anything.
My only complaint about Lethal is I wish the AI in solo would leash to me better in solo versions. That's honestly it. Loving the new difficulty and the mixes of extremis enemies.
Bro mastered the art of insulting humans...and it's good, because we live in the world where most people can't even swear on each other properly. Anyway, finally a voice of reason has been shown. People say that it's the worst patch ever and lethal difficulty sucks and bla-bla-bla...while in reality all you need is just stop playing a melee sniper with a bolt carbine while queuing in a random game and use a class for it's purpose. Yes, I needed a couple of games to adapt to new mechanics and I admit that unstaggerable enemies and low range of new armor mechanic are a little bit inconvenient, but are they make the game unplayable? Unlikely, considering that this difficulty has literally 3 skin rewards 1 of which is bugged and everything else can be easily farmed from ruthless. Also the "casuals" about which most people always saying for the most part don't play farther then substantial (if they play each operation more then once at all) . Those who need lethal difficulty have completed it a dozen or two times already. And the "worst patch"...it's just laughable: scan is still OP as hell, melta bomb still can nuke a squad of majors if placed in the right place and armor nerf in 3-4 difficulties is nearly unnoticable. Usually I hate both sides of the "skill issue vs GaMe Is ToO hArD" argue, but brothers...I've seen REALLY bad stuff and REALLY bullshit/lazy difficulty. What we see now is not even a glimpse of that trash. So let the casuals play their first 3 difficulties where they feel comfortable, let the sweat gods solo lethal and let the normal marines do their business - eviscerate xenos without any excess thoughts. I would be glad if they make lethal more convenient, but my whines won't make it magically happen all I can is adapt. The only thing I really worry about - the amount of rewards. Difficulty as a reward ends when you complete the activity. And making an activity that literally says "recommended for lvl 25" and is supposed to be completed with relic weapons with just "more xp/currency" reward is the most counterlogical thing I can imagine.
My biggest problem with the whole situation is that people are crying about the "heavy nerfs" There's 4 maybe 5 nerfs. 2 of them only apply to ruthless. 1 of them only applies to bosses. 1 of them only applies to a significantly overpowered ability that allowed you to (and still does) kill a boss in less than 10 seconds. There are no heavy nerfs. yet there's a ton of people crying about "OH MY GODDDD HELLDIVERS!!!" Because after a ton of MASSIVE buffs in patch 3. They got 2 nerfs that actually applies to all difficulties. And 2 nerfs that were largely inconsequential. The tether isn't lovely, I don't like it. But the people currently review bombing screaming "helldivers!!!" aren't talking about the armour tether.
I think Lethal feels fun and challenging (Of course I'm also in the camp of the tether mechanic being longer). It's a welcome addition on Tyranid missions, but on Chaos missions I think it's a bit too unforgiving with how much ranged damage is going out. While I have no doubt you did all the missions for Chaos, I did notice that you didn't put any of those clips in this vid
I actually like lethal, good difficulty I hope they don’t nerf it hard difficulty isn’t for everyone, I struggled at first but grinded and got better at the game and the missions got easier but it is a shame the lower diffs got harder for casual players
I wouldn’t mind lethal if it wasn’t for armour leash as it means you all have to play a certain style which may not work for certain classes like snipers don’t do close range but have a bulwark and what do you do as the bulwark holds an area but is melee focused but sniper can’t keep up with that with there dagger and 2 bars of armour
@@JebblesJunior I’ll be honest it is the armour leash that makes it not fun for me I’m fine with doing ruthless other changes I’m fine with like the ammo cache I’m fine with that as bulwark player the increased amount of extremis enemies is a welcome change (besides from double neruothropes fuck them) but the armour leash is a breaker I know it’s something I can get good it at but that comes down to how much patience do I have with my friends/randoms
Any advice for solo because i can't go online because of ps multiplayer cost btw at 6:47 and 7:17 I appreciate you saying that because i was going to do lethal and i DID complain but then i looked at the reward and thought "it isnt worth it" i dont like the helmet nor the sword and i got what i wanted so why bother. Thank you for the comforting insult
It's gonna depend on how you like to play. Best advice is just don't use melee heavy units on chaos missions. Otherwise, there's so much to learn as you progress, I can't possibly cover it all.
I was expecting you to take a side on this topic and you didn't dissapoint me. I consider myself a normie player, I had to take 2 sick days out of work cause of reasons and guess what? I already have the goddamn helmet playing ONLY with rando's. More than skill issue, its a lack on frustration tolerance. You always make me laugh man, keep it up.
I just complain about the crashes............... and the fact that I can't find the blood splatter button because I want to shower myself with Xenos blood everytime I do an execution (can't find it in the settings. Maybe I'm blind?). If they iron out the crashes like it was pre patch 4.0, I'm good.
Dont mind the challenge tbh. But man the spawns are crazy especially with the shooting ones. Half the screen will get covered in bramble so fast you cant see a thing.
I don't play lethal because I ain't kidding myself. I and the people I play with won't keep up with it. Simple as that. I know my own limits and I'm not arrogant enough to think I can bite off more than I can chew. The only benefit to doing it anyway is exclusive armour for the bragging rights, which is fine, just means you're a good player and earned those bragging rights. There's no other reason to play it if you can't handle it.
The challenge of lethal is awesome. I want it to be difficult and rewarding. But the armor tethering has got to go. Because it punishes certain players and classes for DOING THEIR JOB, and playing correctly. It’s not a matter of “simple teamwork”. It’s the devs half assing a counter productive mechanic to mimic another popular game, and doing so with low amounts of effort and IQ. Ever been the last brother standing on lethal? Good job! Your reward? No armor. It’s dumb and needs to go. Make lethal very very difficult but don’t punish players for doing their job with a low IQ half assed mechanic. I shouldn’t have to rub ass cheeks with my teammates in order to be a successful space marine. It’s anti lore too. Many space marines have done awesome shit SOLO. Some of us want to experience being a bad ass without having to help the scrubs by holding their peckers.
This isn’t my original take I’m stealing it from someone else. You shouldn’t punish players for playing your game. you should reward players instead so give player some sort of buff for sticking close together. Punishing players for playing your game is just going to get players to hate you.
@@JebblesJunior My bad I didn't mean for my OP to be so vague I'll try to explain myself better. I'm complaining about the cohesion armor tether mechanic they just added. It's an arbitrary rule that limits the players to sticking together rather than encouraging teamplay by giving players a reason to stick together (e.g. If players stick close together you get a damage boost or Increased damage resistance. Or instead of giving the player a buff give the AI a buff and make it so AI are more lethal and make smarter decisions like prioritising players who stray to far from the group sort of like the left 4 dead games). I have to no problem with lethal difficulty itself just the new tether mechanic. This tether mechanic doesn't make sense and shouldn't be in the game tbh IT'S HERESY.
Ever considered that maybe they could just increase difficulty without some weird handicap mechanic that restricts playstyles . Is that so hard to understand? The coherency mechanic in Darktide actually Buffs players for sticking together while still being pretty challenging on the highest difficulty. You know how the devs accomplished that ? By actually making the game more difficult in fun and engaging ways the higher you go in difficulty
As someone who sucks this video is spot on. I play what i find fun i don't care if that's not the top difficulty so i can tell all of my "friends" that i play the top difficulty. The game is still fun nothing has changed there's just another layer in the game for the absolute chads that genuinely need it.
Haven’t played lethal yet I think the armour tether is a bit finicky but it’s a a way to make it so you have to plan and communicate maybe increase the range slightly, ammo cache thing fine with makes sense, people who complain about it and such want it to be easy enough to run through it with near no issues if anything lethal is how Warhammer is in canon (I think) but I feel maybe some more rewards other than just a battle worn helmet and some decals maybe we could’ve had some other amour pieces have a unique look to it or something I would say buff some weapons slightly mainly bolter weapons and maybe have items increased slightly not lots but maybe a couple extras here and there but I’m looking forward to joining my battle brothers and blasting my way through xenos and heretics in this new difficulty not one for playing on really hard difficulties but I will on here did the campaign on the hardest difficulty at launch with 2 mates so will run every op on lethal. Now brothers let us purge the xenos and kill the heretics FOR THE EMPEROR BROTHERS
Lethal is fine. I'd react to your line on the "pop auspex scan and delete the boss with GL and Melta bs" => It's still a thing, and it's THE thing to do to handle this difficulty with ease. So.. One problem also : All this I agree with when it comes to lethal, but several people showed that the AI Director is completely broken on lower difficulties, where it shouldn't be.
If they add another difficulty above Lethal like Jebbles wants, who wants to bet we go from fighting 3 Lictors to 3 Carnifexes at once like the campaign almost made us do?
If they add another difficulty above lethal all those creatures will be there on the day of it's release complaining that it's too hard and review bomb the game again.
Now now, I absolutely hate what they did this patch, and it has nothing AT ALL to do with skill or lack there off, the late patch ruthless was in a pretty confy spot for me, and I would have liked it to stay there, that being said, I absolutely think they should have added lethal and have it not be for everyone, that's something I'm completly fine with, the main issue is, they reduced the armour on ruthless, wich is something the comunity's been complaining from day one was week, they didn't buff the bolters, as the comunity been asking for, again since day one. I would absolutely play lethal, and I would love to have my shit kicked in, AS LONG as it is because the enemies and the game is challenging and not because my gear sucks balls the same effect can be achieved by different means. I personally would have been much more satisfied if we have had more enemies, or more agressive enemies, instead of "buh, there armor bad now, game hard" it's just... Not what he asked for. Not without a consistent way to recover health, and no, its not "git gud" and learn the mechanics, yesterday I hit 3 perfect dodges in a row against a terminus enemies, and all those 3 times I was hit by a follow up atack, because I was still locked in the animation. the game trows A LOT of bullshit at us, for them to nerf essentially the only survivability resourse we have that can be replenished in a consistent manner. Edit: My main gripe is that they messed with a pre-existing dificulty, but I think Lethal is fine, and its not made for everyone, that is completly fine.
@@JebblesJunior why, it's likely, but it was a buff the community was asking for, so they basically gave us a buff that we asked and then went back on what they did. Honestly I would mind paper armor but with something less bullshity then the gaunts with ranged weapons, like, make the ranged attacks do less damage and the melee ones do more, like it usually is on the table top, wich in turn makes the game more about skill and less about RNG on what enemies whe will get... Just get rid of the stun lock melee
I'll be the first to admit I can't handle Lethal. It's called LETHAL, tho. I kind of went in with the assumption I'd need to develop the skills to handle it, and that it would kick my candy ass. And it is, but I'm slowly making progress, so you won't hear any complaining from me. Practice is how you build skills, I'll get there and when I do, I'll feel all the more proud for it. Just having fun over here in my happy little corner. I'm developing the skills of a perfect dodge god and working out what builds I wanna use for it. That, and anticipating the Volkite gun we're getting soon.
I like lethal and the tether wasn't that bad. Only did 5/7 (time constraints) and 1,2, 4 were 1st try, 6 was 4 tries and 7 was 2 tries. It's difficult and fun but not impossible
As you said they can always drop difficulty, but everybody wants to pad themself on the back nowadays saying they play on the highest difficult and when they cant do that they begin complaining. The 30% nerf on auspex is only noticable on tyrant, I think its fine, you can actually learn the fight now instead of just skipping it. Also kraks exist, but they tend to forget about them when talking about melta nerf, which imo wasnt really a nerf, now its making ppl use it as was designed, which is deleting majoris packs from your screen. Prior to lethal patch ruthless was borderline unplayable, because of how boring it was to play, the only time youd get some major health damage was shooting a barrel by accident or game just insta killing you because of a bug. Also nice drip raven boy
I have issues with the sniper, I feel like all you do is do DMG but not get kills. The tether sucks because you’re not really “sniping”, you’re out in a shitty situation being in the frontline as weaker melee and a weapon with limited ammo. Bolters and snipers need buffs so I can actually kill priority targets because magdumping headshots is not good or interesting difficulty. The tether limits the playstyle and puts Heavy/Assault/Sniper in a big disadvantage in terms of ranging out and that hurts you and teammates unnecessarily. I’ve beaten a couple missions on Lethal but it looks like the meta is heavy plasma incinerator, Bulwarks, and tactical for this difficulty. I’m sure skilled players in other classes can all manage as I have but it’s noticeably more of a struggle and can hinder the team.
Snipers in this game aren't meant to be the killers. They set up kills to boost frontline units' survivability. But even then, with headshot based perks and damage cloak, you still one shot majoris. Not killing or damaging priority targets is down to the player, not the class. I do want a heavy headshot modifier on the bolt sniper though.
@@JebblesJunior Yeah that’s more what I meant I should’ve clarified because the Las Fusil is limited and charged shots scoped in can be difficult against Tyranids. I do disagree though because traditionally snipers are the killers, they have the niche role of sniping high priority targets and it would be nice if you didn’t waste so much ammo trying to kill warriors, whatever I shoot at I intend to kill rather than watch someone else get the execute every time. When the chips are down and you’re the last guy standing you’re almost always screwed as Heavy or Sniper when you can’t get the revive. Granted this isn’t fun for anyone but other classes have that survivability and greater melee to hold your own. Even the Vanguard can survive better with the fencing sword and melta. I agree they’re support but that’s all they can ever be right now, you only ever need them for Zoanthropes and Neuros, every thing else you can get on fine with other classes. Sniper is in my view pretty redundant since I’d rather sub that out for Heavy w/Plasma Incinerator, sure it’s less DMG but it’s more helpful for everything else.
This video is pure therapy for me. I was getting so upset with all this whine. And it's not that I am clearing lethal solo or something. I am a 40 year old casual with the reaction speed of a snail and a love for playing assault. I have difficulty playing on Substantial, but you know what? I am having so much fun, way more than when I was clearing ruthless for a laugh. That just didn't feel right. The difficulty is fine. I hope the devs do not cave.
I’d be more than willing to try it if I could connect to the damn servers, haven’t been able to play since the update launched. Did all the trouble shooting I could(uninstall/reinstall, verify files, restart my laptop) but nothing works.
I like that lethal is hard is supposed to be hard but at the same time , 20 minoris 10 majoris 2 lictors 1 ravanger an two zoanthopes at the same time is kinda bullshit , also kinda love it
I see the playerbase for warhammer is taking the same path as the devs from helldivers 2 things are playable....but they are most defintely not fine, and this argument has no relation to PvP but that too needs some small work and perhaps more focused gamemodes
I love lethal and everything that came with it. The difficulty gives me a feeling that ruthless did before the nerfs. The melta nerfs & everything that came with them can be argued about and may be good or bad. But the only really annoying thing is the armor regen nerf in lethal. It sounds like a good thing on paper but in reality it fucking sucks. You can't explore the many different playstyles the game and the perks offer you with some classes as it always forces you to stick around your teammates.
You can still manage different styles, you just can't get your ass beat while employing them. Tether does need an extension, but a lot of people just don't know how to work around it.
"But it's soo hawrd" Yeah, that's the point. Does the tether need some refinement to account for some classes? Maybe, but that's more an issue on class imbalance than the actual difficulty
Correction: thats more an issue of an arbitrary mechanic being entirely contrary to the normal gameplay loop literally invalidating almost half the playstyles in the game when it doesnt need to at *all*
@@thesocialistsarecoming8565 Even without the coherency mechanic, there are still a lot of issues with some classes just not having enough self-sustain or dps support for more difficulties. Like Bulwark struggles HARD on any Chaos mission bc you're basically forced back by the amount of bolter fire, even though they still have the banner and shield to help them not die. Vanguard could technically not die on Lethal, but the way the skills are built does not provide enough utility for it compared to taking other classes with 3 armor and better weapons/range. The tether range could be increased to an entire battle zone and it still wouldn't change how much these classes need to be reworked
@@idc681me and the boys werent having issues with dps with the classes even on lethal, enemies were definitely tankier tho. Edit: in hindsight, we also went on alt accounts to do ruthless missions with level 1 classes, so maybe its just a built up tolerance to health sponge 😅 The tether honestly should just be changed to 'no default armor regen' while out of tether. That way people cant dodge roll for 50 seconds to regen armor. It preventing armor regen from fighting is genuinely just stupid lol
@@thesocialistsarecoming8565 I would agree on that for the tether if it wasn't for the fact that base armor generation on Lethal is so long you'll probably regen armor from enemies anyway. Tether I feel should be capped armor generation to one segment/nearest to filled segment out of coherency, normal armor generation near one other teammate, and an ARMOR damage reduction at full coherency to make the damage values against you to maybe pre-2.0 Ruthless for most enemies, maybe a bit more depending on how things pan out
Yes thank u! Lethal is fine hell I don't have a issue with the armor tether. I also don't care that they removed it. I understand why for class like Sniper, assault an vanguard but I can take it or leave it personally
The title says it all and it 100% applies to me. I suck and probably wont beat lethal for a while. And im totally fine with it. I have fun with the game regardless. I'm happy there's something challenging for the guys that are into challenges. I'll keep leveling myself (not the character) up on substantial and ruthless in the meantime.
I only got SM2 4 days ago and have not leveled for lethal yet. But I beat elden Ring as a wretch. I'm definitely prepared. It's simply just improve. I know I'm gonna die when I try lethal but that's how you get better.
Finally, a true brother speaking fact. I did lethal with a brother and boy was it a rush. Wd didn't succeed but having three ravagers and hokding the line was epic as F. I do agree the Cohesion should be longer range or similar.
There is a weird thing with TH-camrs covering this difficulty and all saying if you solo this difficulty or play it with randos successfully that we're liars. Feel like that's a disservice in some way, I don't know.
I don't really see it that way. But I also don't see the brag in it because it's usually one silent member and one dying member than you're dragging through.
@JebblesJunior well, I'd say the brag of it comes from the helmet you get. Would it be wrong for someone then to sport the helmet within the first few days of this new patch if they'd completed the challenge with Randoms or not, does it really matter? Further more if someone were "dragging" their team of Randoms along during their ventures wouldn't it further increase their validity of having earned such an achievement, having two extra handicaps?
Agreed. Minimal, veteran, and substantial should be easy for the casuals. Because this game deserves popularity and money. However, ruthless and lethal are for hardcore gamers only. I dont care if you want to tell your friends you beat the hardest mode, i dont care if you feel those cosmetics should be given to everyone. You have base game(which alone is already fucking amazing) all the bonus stuff are reserved for the people who put in the effort. As it should be, only a heretic would look at something gained through hard work and demand it be given to them for free.
Honestly yeah, only real issue i have for this update is how bad bolt weapons feel right now. (Just cause Im a bolter simp) and that 'maybe' glitch where you just can't regain armor at all when your teammates are dead on Lethal.
@@JebblesJunior Honestly I think that'd be fine, just right now it's kinda wack since unless a class has a special perk to regain armor like Bulwark can they're just significantly dunked on by the game for not being the one to mess up.
It's got some great stuff. These are my personal complaints. 1.) No respawn at checkpoints. This does nothing but waste a huge amount of time. 2.) Tight Formation. Not a fan. If they keep it, they could improve it with the next point. 3.) During last stand you have no way to get armor unless you're bulwark. But players have 5 minute respawn and you can reduce by 20 sec per major kill. Let the final person get armor back. 1.) Only makes the game worse 3.) Builds excitement and works as a come back mechanic that allows recovery from 1 bad hit
@JebblesJunior doesn't serve any purpose. If you're struggling you feel forced to wait. If your doing ok you'll do it to maximize your chances because shit happens.
I 100% agree, i dont think they should've touched the lower difficulties though. Let everyone have their fun but give everyone else have lethal just the way it is. If anyone says its too easy on ruthless, tell them to equip the lowest tier weapons and drop all perks on everything. Of course its gonna be easy after 100 hours plus and all the perks and up grades. But lethal? Naw, lethals fine just like it is
Lethal is excellent. I just think the coherency mechanic is really badly implemented. Mostly as it makes some play styles unable to work effectively. The vanguard can't be the vanguard, and the sniper or heavy can't effectively be long-range support. Still managed to complete it, though, and love fighting 3 lictors 😁
I'm of the opinion that there's 2 camps for tight formation- Not really affected: Heavy and Bulwark and REALLY affected: Sniper, Assault, and Vanguard. Tactical is the only one tha's a toss up because his playstyle is so versatile. He could sit in his heavy's or bulwark's laps and help wave clear, or he can fill in for Sniper and sit in the back to set up executions. His chosen playstyle determines how much the mechanic affects him.
@@mistah3687 sniper doesn't give a shit for the most part either tbh, he still nukes elites and against enraged enemies he is the most effective. Vanguard can just spit on this mechanic too because most of his survivability comes from being able to heal himself, also his team perk can make your bulwark a banner spam machine. But assault...ya, he has really hard times now because he is the only melee class that can do nothing with health. And he can lose all of it in a blink of an eye. Against tyranids he still is good, but I will never pick assault on chaos missions ever again...
honestly the difficulty isn't actually too bad, Like I feel like I can get pretty far even if I do it solo, i won't succeed mind you, but i'll get decently far, but the problem is that the randos that I teamed up with keeps being assholes and cowards, when they permadie once and just leaves the match, and that just frustrates me since I don't have any friends who play this game so I'm forced to either do it solo, or with randos
This whole situation just reminds me of what happened when Helldivers got level 10 added. A bunch of people complaining that it is too hard (to be fair that was probably because half the guns sucked at the time but thankfully AH buffed near about everything) when if you tried enough it would get easier and now they're restarting the cycle by saying the games too easy after all the buffs and bug fixes we got. Trust me, whenever level 11 and so on gets added it's gonna be this same situation all over again.
As somebody who completed termination on lethal in 1 go yesterday, Lethal sucks for 1 reason. Tight formation. I'm super glad we've got this new challenging mode, glad to have a genuinely higher difficulty. But tight formation is antithetical and harmful to class identity, they'd got to remove it or change it completely because it simply isn't fun to not be able to do what a class is supposed to, what you choose a class to be able to do. Other than that, had fun monstering on 3 lictors & a carnifex.
@@rossgadsby9663 vanguard, assault, heavy with bolter, bulwark depending on playstyle, *and* sniper all have major aspects of the class at best handicapped at worst maimed by the tether mechanic. The tether mechanic is sinply contrary to the gameplay loop, if they keep it it would be best for it to stop natural armor regen (i.e. the wait 50 seconds and grt your armor back mechanic) or just slightly reduce armor regen from combat mechanics (i.e. 25-50%)
@@rossgadsby9663 Were you dropped on the head or something?. How does being within fingering distance of your teammates promote supporting each other . You can still support your team without hugging them 24/7 by doing stuff like Sniping, providing covering fire or drawing aggro as a melee class . The tether makes those playstyle unnecessarily bothersome
I just dislike the massive melta bomb nerf. -70% effectiveness to bosses is cruel and defeats the primary purpose of the bomb (there were several other nerfs that i havnt dealt with yet and cant comment) And as for the armor tethering i wish it had more distance to it and offers sheild when both teammates are gone. I still enjoy the game but this update couldve felt better
Meltas weren't really designed to nuke bosses so much as they were supposed to delete a large number of enemies from a specific area. Like a frag, but super.
@@JebblesJuniornot really tho, its AoE doesnt fit the horde clear type, its a pseudo trap, meaning place and lure something into it for a reward....ie Bosses
Finally, a video that says it. All i see on the reddit page is just cry babies with helldrivers2 PTSD. like they could legally be diagnosed with PTSD, that is how bad it is. Also helldivers 2 is on a much better state then at launch and they fixed most of everything in less then a month but your attention span can only last a couple hours i guess.
I'm more upset about the limited ammo crate mechanic than anything, how will I feed my poor starving Heavy Bolter now?! My baby hungers!
Literally never had a problem with this as a heavy
@@natedizzlefoshizzleIf you're not spending every single round on the toughest extremis to the frailest minoris, then you're not playing heavy right. It means you're not firing your weapon all the time and as a Heavy, your finger should be practically glued to the fire button. You disgust me.
@@janitordroidjenkins7081 Nope. I use heavy bolter and get 20-30k dmg per game and rarely completely run out of ammo. You should take your nose out of your rear, pal.
Lethal is fine, change or get rid of the armor leash and buff boltguns to not be shit.
The bolt guns really do need some love.
@@JebblesJunior the only one other than Stalker or Grenade launcher is the Instigator, and that's far below both options. The poor carbines and auto bolts are just confetti guns
@@ChillOutHarper buff carbine in pve
Nerf it in pvp
Perfect comment
@@ChillOutHarper pathetic those are shooting 75cal bullets how can you make a pinata gun out of it
I'm a hard defender of lethal. But I do think the armor leash is a little limiting playstyle wise and a little nonsensical on some missions where you kinda have to range out from your group.
But fighting three lictors at once and having your team actually cover you might just make it worth it.
Tether annoys me at times but you’re damn right about that last part😂
I feel the same. Tether feels like it adds nothing and limits playstyles, which is never a good thing, but the actual difficulty I love
Love the difficulty but tether should be changed in some way
the game should never send more than 1 lictor at you. Saber wants to respect the lore so much they aren't willing to let us customize heretic astartes armor, but they let 2 lictors attack at once? thats some grade A BS and would never happen
@@MrThatpersonthatguy I guess if you truly want to stay lore accurate, 3 marines wouldn't be able to complete any of these missions. With the exception of a few helmetless characters.
0:10 YOU CAN SKIP THAT WHOLE WALK!? Yes, skill issue indeed.
The main problem is most people just can't play as a team.
If someone looks like they have low health, maybe instead of snatching that stim for yourself, allow them to take it, cos they can't help you if they're knocked out on the floor or dead.
Or if you have a heavy or tactical maybe let them take ammo as a priority, because their melee is limited
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 similarly, prioritize vanguard and assault for the armor boosts since they spend the most time in the enemies' face apart from Bulwark, who already has good armor. Or give it to whomever is currently carrying the gene-seed. It's simple stuff
i have been playing with 2 friends. one of them thinks of themself as the hard carry every mission. the other doesnt seem to really care about much. i play bulwark and the hard carry likes to micro when and how i use my banner. carry guy also cannot seem to get enough stims to save their life ontop of me constantly trying to keep them alive with constant banner heals. then i found another group of people to play with and when we all saw the first medkit of the mission we each pulled our guns on each other like that one scene from pirates of the Caribbean threatening each other to take the medkit because everyone valued the team or teammates more than themself.
The main problem is most people don't have two bran cells to rub together? Don't need the armour? Steal the execution anyway. Too much aggro on you? Toss grenades at the bulwark so he misses parries so you get even more aggro on you. Getting angry at the snipers who give you a warning laser before they shoot you? Do absolutely nothing about them. When people blame the game (they always do), they cease to see reason to learn anything. And you know they know deep down that it's their fault, because of how violently they react when you dare to suggest you're not having the same problems.
It’s not all of lethal. It’s the armor leash. It needs to be changed flat out. Other than that it’s good
I could see reason in making it a bit wider.
@@JebblesJunioralso fix the whole not gaining armour at all when your last alive.
@@JebblesJunior honestly the way it works needs to be completed overhauled. If it was simply a buff for being together it would be fine. But for a game like Space Marine 2 it doesn't work. Definitely not a stick together all the time type of game.
@@JebblesJuniorI love lethal but its just hella bugged. No armor restore when last alive is stupid af. Also cohesion radius should be doubled AT LEAST, space marines do not need to hold hands
My idea is a more dynamic version of the mechanic. Maybe making certain classes have wider areas than others so it doesn't hurt as much when they have to split from the group to deal with high value targets i.e: Assault gets wider range to account for mobility v.s heavy have a smaller area because he generally wants to stick to his team anyway
Mad respect for the Handsome Jack nod at the end. And if that was unintentional, even more respect.
Lethal isn’t that hard - but the team tether really isn’t that fun. I don’t want to have to be sniffing my teammates farts to be able to earn armor back.
The only real complaint I have about the difficulty in the game is the stun locks, I think those can be pretty broken and you'll die almost instantly in some cases
I think rampaging ranged enemies specifically need to be adjusted a touch cause they just back up and shotgun while never engaging melee or being staggered.
@@JebblesJunior yeah I do think some of the bigger weapons should stagger more. The enemies seem like they can break out if that first stun and you have to either dodge or get ready to parry by the 3rd hit while if you get stunned you kind of get stuck and can be stunned again because of the animation it does. There should be like a second invisibility window or something after the animation so it doesn't just happen again right after
I tried a hard difficulty operation a couple days ago (blanking on the actual name but I'm a halo vet so that's what it defaults to in my brain) because i wanted to give it a go on my bulwark, my highest level class. Level requirement is 10, I'm 13 at this point, i figure it'll be a bit of a step up from normal, so a bit of a challenge, but still pretty doable.
I was very wrong. We finished it and everything, but it was *rough* to the point that i don't even want to even think about lethal until I've got another 10-20 hours into the game, and i also immediately went back to normal difficulty until I've got more levels and unlocks for bulwark and I've ranked up more classes.
Halo 2 Legendary played a major part in my formative years. I know what real pain is. This is nothing more than a minor setback
Halo 2 Legendary coop was suffering as a kid, lmao
Might want to look at the quality of your gear as well cuz thats also part of the difficulty scale, but otherwise take your time
@@setsunachiame oh yeah, wouldn't surprise me if my loadout quality is lacking as well, I'm just willing to admit that probably a solid 70 percent of my struggle was objectively a skill issue (for now, at least)
Rest assured, there's no jackal snipers on Lethal (x
yeah it's your level. if you were just as good on a level 25, substantial would be a cakewalk for you
I’m a bit sad, played lethal with some friends on Inferno, I was having a good time while one of my friends who refuses to play any other class than Tactical was getting violated. Even though myself and my other friend was practically dragging his ass through the mission we got jumped by four Lichters. We failed the mission, I found it funny as fuck getting mogged but now that one dipshit friend refuses to play lethal. Absolute skill issue that he refuses to acknowledge (he’s a bit of an egotist).
Some people are stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. Hopefully they grow as a person.
@@JebblesJunior feels good, just completed my first lethal mission. With randoms to boot, difficulty pretty fun, maybe give another 10-20ft to the armor radius and maybe people will stop bitching.
@@JebblesJuniorfinal update, sat down with the one non-shit friend and a random who became our ride or die and completed all missions back to back. We where up till 4am but it was worth it.
No one owe to play with you, leave him alone
As someone who recently started playing, i feel like its a mix between the class the player uses and the combination of the team mates. In the lower difficulties ive been able to both die mid mission or blitz through it flawlessly
I'm glad the armor tether is gone and that the rest of the game is pretty much unchanged lol
I've got a clip from my first Lethal run - a carnifex charged and dropped ALL OF US with the charge. My buddies and I laughed for quite a few minutes before trying it again. Only one down, felt badass. Lethal is.... lethal. Holy shit! Who would've thought.
I cannot fight carnifex for the life of me. It always fakes me out and then stun locks me into a paste.
I can handle literally everything else but a carninfex atm
When they nerfed ruthless, they told me to f"ck off and just wait for lethal. When they complained about lethal, they told me to f"ck off and play a different game. Coincidentally I came to Space Marine 2 because the Helldivers fellows also told me to f"ck off and play a different game if I didn't like how easy it got.
Got the Helmet a few hours ago. I was annoyed the whole time as I finish the ops. I actually did the unthinkable and took a break from the game after getting it. Sorry brother Jebbles, I usually agree with you but not this time. I dont care about the new spawns, ammo nerfs, parry nerfs. Didnt even notice anything. Im an assault main. I can only count with my fingers, I can only form 3 syllables max. Those shi doesnt affect my smooth brain.
But this godang Tight Formation isnt it. I dont wanna hug 10 foot tall men and ask them for comfort, I got a jetpack and for god's sakes Imma use it. Though I got the helmet, I didnt cared for it, nor did I care if I was good on this game or not. All I cared about was the mobs. They were all mine, mine to do with as I please. My teammates where there to watch me transform into a meteorite and crash down on the ground and remind everyone how the giant lizards died. Thats all I cared about. This tight formation punished me for that. Here's the worse part. I still succeeded without changing my ways. It was just that, an annoyance, a headache, a pain in my urethra. Something we did not need. A gigantic rock falling down from heaven doesnt need to think. I'm a rock.
Thats just me though
Play with a bulwark and you'll keep all your armor effects.
Ok but what the fuck do I do against a carnifex, a pack of lictors and a pair of neurothropes on top of what feels like billions of minors and majoris enemies? don’t you think that’s a bit much?
Dedicated range unit handles Zoeys (I'm assuming that's what you meant) Horde clear handles minors and chunks majors while range chips in. Lictors (since there is at most two at this point) are nuked with skills or gun strikes. Melee is keeping Carni focused on them with evasion until the rest can chip in.
@@JebblesJunior I did mean zoeys my bad also I’ve yet to find a team competent enough to do any of what you just said without instantaneously being turned into paste even at full shields and health
Yea you cant really do what you described....no armor regen n all lol@@JebblesJunior
@@nonna0157 Well to put it bluntly, if your team is bad you should lose on the highest difficulty yes.
It's a team based gamemode, if your teamwork sucks, you lose. That's how it should be.
Do you play counter strike or something like that and then complain that the game is unfair because your team doesn't work together?
Do you play an MMO RPG like world of warcraft, and then say it's unfair that you lose the bossfight when your healers don't heal?
of course you god damn don't. So why is space marine 2 any different?
If your team doesn't work together on the highest difficulty, they should lose.
Is that annoying when you get bad randoms? yes of course it is. But that's not the game's fault.
No, I don't think that's too much. Zoans should be instantly deleted with little problem. Lictors are easy to parry to death. All you have to do is position yourself to avoid the carnifex until you can make the space to deal with it. It can't target all three of you at once. This isn't even a frequent occurrence. If you can't find a team competent enough to do any of that then they have no business playing lethal. I've already been pushed out of Helldivers, being told to f"ck of and play another game if I didn't like how easy it became. When I complained they nerfed ruthless I was told to f"ck off and play lethal when that comes out instead. Now that lethal is out, the difficulty that was suppose to be MY difficulty is complained about, and once again I'm told to f"ck off and play another game. I bought a game I knew was hard, they bought a game they knew was hard, why am I the one being constantly pushed out?
I agree with you about everything in this video except one thing: people who's friends don't have the game can't really play lethal because there's no way randoms can lock in enough to make the tether work.
That's not true at all though lmao
@@rossgadsby9663 I tried it like 5 times and none of them worked, I was playing fine, trying to stick close to the assault or vanguard, while I was on bulwark, but they kept running away
@@henrydavis8822 100% Agree, some people are ridiculously selfish as well with stims and other commodities
I have been doing just fine with randoms in lethal. The problem is you
@@johndoe-sh6bi different randoms, I guess. I consistently got pretty far, despite the mission
Using Assault in lethal is absolute unhinged gigachad behavior.
They took the rule no model can be 2 inches from another member of there unit from table top and put it in the game lol
I just want the sword for my Bulwark.
Me and my brother rocked Inferno for like 3 hours on Lethal until we finally got it down. Only thing we don't like are getting hit with 4 neurothropes, 3 licters and a Ravener all at once.. that is something we weren't ready for in any way lmao
I will admit those "suprise" rushes really need to be capped at like 5 enemies with max 3 copies
Like it's straight unfun hitting 7 and getting teamwiped by bad rng
I love Lethal, I'm not amazing at the game by any means but I've gotten through about half the missions just fine and the other half with blood and tears. It's a very fun addition to the game, and when I feel like a break from that level of sweating my balls off, I drop it down a level or two. I personally haven't noticed the Armor Leash too much, as a bulwark player I'm usually around the team anyways, and the times I do go down are usually times I would have been in deep shit even without the Armor Leash. So for me it's less of a "this mechanic sucks" and more a "I need to cover my team extra" type thing. Should the range of it be widened? Absolutely, could it be removed? Sure, but for me it's just another reminder that this is a team game and that I need to make extra sure I am helping and taking care of my team mates.
Lethal difficulty is great, but the changes they released with it, and the armor leash are not.
We should not be punished for leaving 20 ft radius of team, sniper and assault are required to do this if they want to use their loadout most effectively. Lethal difficulty armor leash removes player agency and punishes the player for skilled play. It forces a linear playstyle that is boring. Meanwhile, if you are the last brother remaining, you dont get any coherency and no armor regen, good luck surviving for 300 seconds with no armor. These balance changes are in direct contradiction of the changes released in the previous patch, what was the point???
This is what needs to happen imo. Revert all nerfs to armor and power fist. change the coherency mechanic to reward players instead of punish them, buff bolt weapons.
If you want to up the difficulty you can do so in many other ways, increase enemy count (which they did), less consumables, increased enemy aggression, add new enemies, give us less health, and more, just leave armor alone, it should be the same across all difficulties.
I can see reasonability in having armor values the same across the board. Those changes were mostly to compensate for the infinite armor provided by the parry mechanics.
As for the tether, I main assault and sniper, and I've been headlining carryfest 2024. It only punishes people that choose awful positioning, as it should.
I do think there are certain tweaks they could make like giving back the old roll and adding a more dynamic version of the tight formation mechanic, but other than those two I think the difficulty is good.
The only other thing I can think of is adding more rewards to incentivise playing on lethal.
Biggest changes I’d like is server/net code improvements for PVP and a buff to the heavy bolter, worst part of the update was no thunder hammer buff
While i havent played space marine 2 i feel like poeple forget that yes a space marine can get his shit pushed in and that space marines arent deployed in large groups either
From a purely lore look lethal seems like the exact depiction of what a kill team of space marines have to go through and people are mad they cant have their power fantasy of big man kill, even tho they can just not play lethal and go back to the other difficulties
As a Bulwark, the only real issue I have with Lethal are Zoanthropes. To be fair they're a pain in any difficulty, but lethal seems to send a duo of them at you 30 seconds after you killed the last. Brings me to an issue where I feel like the Plasma weapons are underpowered, purely because the regular shots do basically nothing, and so with the plasma pistol you get maximum about 15-20 shots, depending on which one you take. That grouped with the added health making the primary way for a bulwark to deal with Zoanthropes, the Krak grenade, making it take two to down them, as well as the constantly swapping shield buff, makes it a pain in the ass to deal with them in between dodging their attacks (the insane amount of them that there are), and thats without dealing with a swarm or a god damn Carnifex at the same time. Yeah I making this multitudes harder for myself by playing solo, cause the bots do literally nothing at times. The only legitimate issue to take away from this is that I feel the Plasma needs a bit of a buff.
I think zoeys as a whole are a bit intensely jank. It's why I'm always on sniper these days.
@@JebblesJunior yeah, the bolt pistol handles them a lot better, however I’ve lost games to the bolt pistol as I’ve been unable to stun or clear hordes off of the objective, such as the generators on “Inferno” or the train in “Ballistic Engine”.
I uninstalled and left a bad review after three weeks of updates being little more than "Balance" patches that were "Fixing" things no one asked to be fixed. Dodge changed, parry changed, servers still crashing constantly. Bolters not fixed. Cosmetics still being mid at best. I have every class and weapon to max other than the shitty bolters and powerfist i just didnt like the play style on. I was having fun until even the easier missions i played for a quick run turned into a slog fest of just constant waves because the Harder difficulty was supposed to be new not change Every other level. Mobs spawning and calling waves in behind walls you cant even reach. a tether mechanic that wasnt asked for nor even makes sense if you cant prepick your team or recruit specific players playing specific class'. All range or all melee for instance. I didnt play helldivers.. was too busy farming ffxiv savage raids which makes hard in these games look like a pride parade. Devs need to focus on fixing the true issues and not wasting my time with mobs that eat 4 clips to the face and dont even stagger. 5 min respawn due to being hit through a ceiling and one shotted through a wall? Killed like some guardsman cosplaying as a space marine. Yeah fuck that. I'll play a game with mechanics that make a game challenging but fun.. not just add a shit ton of health to mobs making it feel like im hitting a target dummy and make my fully upgraded kit play like im in all gray gear with a level 1 while trying to learn an entirely new playstyle for some reason that makes no sense. More mobs and more mechanics that arent bugged to shit make it challenging but fun.. not glitches and shit "Balance". Bitch as you call it is what I call having standards while you just sound like a simp for the devs who havent fixed a damned thing bug wise other than the things helping the player side like better healing or the likes which I say should of been fixed but better yet should of been fixed With the bugs that screw the players over as well.
TLDR, you're the "You do" portion of the video title.
@@JebblesJunior Just like your opinions. Which wont age well as the numbers are showing. Might want to try going back to the community of helldivers you left with your trash talk before it gets you into trouble. Proving the point you losers game hop destroy things with trash takes and move on.
I love how hard lethal is but I completely disagree about the having to be so damn close to your teammates to get armor. A sniper is not suppose to be up and close in a fight. A vanguard is suppose to get close and stop the reinforcements this makes it so you can't even play certain classes properly the way they are intended to be played. I am not complaining about the game being too hard but that shit is a joke. You don't need that for teamwork to be a thing. Making the difficulty actually hard in general makes you need to work as a team. Also there's a lot of bullshit bugs. I mainly play as bulwark and so many of my perks are not even working. Using your banner to get make congested health back doesn't work the new bulwark thing where as long as your teammates have one stim and you drop your banner and they are supposed to heal a mortal wound is not working properly. Everything else I do agree with it's suppose to be a challenge and that's the fun in it. It's suppose to make you think and not be easy.
The point of cohesion is to punish overextending and poor positioning. I could see the boundaries expanded, but without it, Lethal is just ruthless pt 2. There needs to be a defining feature to make it more difficult.
@@JebblesJunior yeah but making it so classes can't play how they were DESIGNED to be played is idiotic.
@JebblesJunior that's just the thing they are going to add modifiers to lethal to make it "lethal" again but cohesion is just a garbage mechanic and i beat lethal for all ops, even if you think it punishes poor positioning and that's just a shit take cause it limits classes like sniper which is supposed to give cover fire not be so close to teammates to be be able to smell what they had for breakfast, and vanguard is supposed to be up close and personal not with the team and assault is the same way the cohesion area would have to be so fucking wide to support all classes.
I love the new difficulty, my only complaints are the fact of the mines, which get to be a bit much on any difficulty, and the armor range. Some classes work quite well with a bit of distance from the group. It's a nice dynamic but sometimes a bit more breathing room, or perhaps when you are the last survivor you should get the tether :)
i played with my duo as a bulwark/heavy team, we really like the tether mechanic but it needs some changes like wider range and disabling it for last man alive imo
I’m not complaining about the difficulty, I’m complaining about the randoms I’m getting thinking this is just old ruthless
Bots makes lethal lethal with the amor leash
Oh hey so I'm not alone in thinking Lethal's fine? Even with the "stay in formation", we managed to get through most of Decapitation just fine with nobody going down. We were on low health for most of the run yes, but we still made it to the Tyrant. Got him down to phase 2 as well with relative ease, buuuut... thats when we learned that Lethal Tyrant isnt playing games. Those green psyker-blade thingies he slashes with from time to time.. ..they got all 3 of us.
A 5 minute respawn is perhaps a bit too heavy a punishment as well. And considering people wont stop complaining about the cohesion, they could instead alter it so your ability has a 50 or even 80% slower recharge when not in cohesion. You still get punished, but at least your survivability wont suffer for it.
The difficulty (outside of the dumbfuck coherency mechanic) is honestly great.
Once they fix or change that mechanic i'll play it, until then I cant be bothered to try (and fail) at ignoring the constant annoyance made by the coherency mechanic. [And no, its not a skill issue, i can do the missions, its just so stupidly annoying that i cant be bothered 😂]
This has been the opinion of me and 3 of my other friends that have done lethal. It does not need changed in the slightest with 2 sniper mains a bulwark and tactical/vanguard player we cleared all the missions with very little difficulty but that might have been cause we do this crazy thing called teamwork but i think people have blown out of proportion how hard lethal actaully is. Its just ruthless but they hit slighgly harder and have more health thats it to me and my friend group
My complaint is things like the random homing death balls from zoanthropes and neurothropes, and some of the buggy ass shit that's been cropping up like some guy standing in front of me misses a parry; I parry too because muscle memory, but I get hit because fuck me; venom cannons shooting through walls or quick scoping on ascent with a jet pack (wtf?); getting occasionally one shot from full armor and over half health by a zoanthrope beam clip; and the sporadic literal quarter second or less icon to grab from lictors and raveners.
Just random wtf crap mostly. The patch has been pretty cool outside of that, although I do think they should have done something different for lethal than squad cohesion. Nerfing mechanics for your character should be a no go. Even making enemies do more damage and then a damage reduction buff to counteract it would make more sense.
The flyers definitely need work done because something with them just plain isn't right.
The armor leash needs to be longer, rest is absolutely fine.
as of the making of this comment, i have done 3 of the 7 missions including the newest one on lethal difficulty, all with randomly matched squads...i agree that the whole point of lethal is to beat your anus, and at least you can still do ruthless if you want the materials to upgrade your weapons to relic tier.
update: i have done all the missions now, i now have access to the battle damaged helmet and powersword too.
Oh hey a JebblesJr vid on my B-day, what a treat!
But in all seriousness I'd say all things considered the update wasnt all that bad, things just got blown out of proportion for those who had it easy before. We got a new challenge and by the Emperor's name we rose up to it.
I might wait until future patches slightly change the mechanic of the tether. I’ll still probably try to do Lethal solo. Not because I think I’m better than everyone, (I’m pretty trash) but because I don’t have many friends to coordinate effectively with. I’d rather be a burden to myself due to lack of skill than cost someone else a lot of progress.
Bulwark and vanguard seem to be popular choices for that. I personally go with sniper, but most people wouldn't.
@@JebblesJunior there’s a reason I love my extra protective shield with bulwark. I love being able to make mistakes 😂
I still think Lethal’s issues stem from the Cohesion system and the fact that several class and weapon perks feel lackluster or checkpoints.
However, I do have issues with the AI director changes resulting in an absurd number of Devourer, Venom Cannon, or Barbed Strangler Warriors was a massive oversight. They moved the shield Tzanngor issue to spamming Majoris enemies in annoying amounts. But the ammo restrictions and damage I think can work.
Cohesion does seem to be the tipping point for a lot of people, but I really don't feel like it's THAT bad when playing outside my team.
@@JebblesJunior speaking from a guy who has around 450 hours logged in Darktide, playing on Damnation then getting his ass handed on a regular when attempting Auric modifiers, and another 150 in SM2 with good success on Ruthless, this system is, at best, a severe stunting.
I won’t repeat the arguments, but if Saber wanted this to be a thing, it should have been tied to the PvE mode from the start of development. A cohesion system only works if it gives incentive for the team to not only stick together, but also boost their power.
The only thing SM2 system does is keep one of the core fundamentals of the game, one that old SM fans had a gripe with, functional, breaking down the instant someone needs to overextend to deal with ranged spam, reinforcement calls, or God Emperor forbids, someone is waiting to respawn.
You cannot let players have something to use that if fundamental to gameplay, then take it away without offering something equal or incredibly tempting in return. That was Helldivers 2 issue, when they kept needing weapons based on pickrates instead of realizing players were using what actually was effective at the time.
The system needs to go, or needs a serious overhaul at bare minimum. My suggestion would be to copy FatShark’s homework, and bake the system in from the ground up, including perks that work while in or regardless of cohesion, and drive that incentive to stay together without completely neutering the team.
Not locking anything other than a couple of cosmetics behind the Lethal diff seems like an obvious message from the Devs that they don't intend for a good chunk of the playerbase to be able to reliably beat it, or at least not beat it reliably immediately after it dropped.They didn't really have to design it to be anything other than utter chaos and carnage, because nobody NEEDS to beat it to get an advantage in the game. I enjoyed grinding through all 7 missions for the cosmetics, but I doubt I'll spend too much of my time moving forward on that diff because I often just want to relax and help newcomers level up classes/weapons, and I don't NEED to play Lethal to progress anything.
My only complaint about Lethal is I wish the AI in solo would leash to me better in solo versions.
That's honestly it. Loving the new difficulty and the mixes of extremis enemies.
Bro mastered the art of insulting humans...and it's good, because we live in the world where most people can't even swear on each other properly. Anyway, finally a voice of reason has been shown. People say that it's the worst patch ever and lethal difficulty sucks and bla-bla-bla...while in reality all you need is just stop playing a melee sniper with a bolt carbine while queuing in a random game and use a class for it's purpose. Yes, I needed a couple of games to adapt to new mechanics and I admit that unstaggerable enemies and low range of new armor mechanic are a little bit inconvenient, but are they make the game unplayable? Unlikely, considering that this difficulty has literally 3 skin rewards 1 of which is bugged and everything else can be easily farmed from ruthless. Also the "casuals" about which most people always saying for the most part don't play farther then substantial (if they play each operation more then once at all) . Those who need lethal difficulty have completed it a dozen or two times already.
And the "worst patch"...it's just laughable: scan is still OP as hell, melta bomb still can nuke a squad of majors if placed in the right place and armor nerf in 3-4 difficulties is nearly unnoticable. Usually I hate both sides of the "skill issue vs GaMe Is ToO hArD" argue, but brothers...I've seen REALLY bad stuff and REALLY bullshit/lazy difficulty. What we see now is not even a glimpse of that trash. So let the casuals play their first 3 difficulties where they feel comfortable, let the sweat gods solo lethal and let the normal marines do their business - eviscerate xenos without any excess thoughts. I would be glad if they make lethal more convenient, but my whines won't make it magically happen all I can is adapt.
The only thing I really worry about - the amount of rewards. Difficulty as a reward ends when you complete the activity. And making an activity that literally says "recommended for lvl 25" and is supposed to be completed with relic weapons with just "more xp/currency" reward is the most counterlogical thing I can imagine.
Dude, you cooked with the transitions. Nice work!
My biggest problem with the whole situation is that people are crying about the "heavy nerfs"
There's 4 maybe 5 nerfs.
2 of them only apply to ruthless.
1 of them only applies to bosses.
1 of them only applies to a significantly overpowered ability that allowed you to (and still does) kill a boss in less than 10 seconds.
There are no heavy nerfs.
yet there's a ton of people crying about "OH MY GODDDD HELLDIVERS!!!"
Because after a ton of MASSIVE buffs in patch 3.
They got 2 nerfs that actually applies to all difficulties.
And 2 nerfs that were largely inconsequential.
The tether isn't lovely, I don't like it.
But the people currently review bombing screaming "helldivers!!!" aren't talking about the armour tether.
I think Lethal feels fun and challenging (Of course I'm also in the camp of the tether mechanic being longer). It's a welcome addition on Tyranid missions, but on Chaos missions I think it's a bit too unforgiving with how much ranged damage is going out. While I have no doubt you did all the missions for Chaos, I did notice that you didn't put any of those clips in this vid
Raven Guard gameplay RAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I actually like lethal, good difficulty I hope they don’t nerf it hard difficulty isn’t for everyone, I struggled at first but grinded and got better at the game and the missions got easier but it is a shame the lower diffs got harder for casual players
I wouldn’t mind lethal if it wasn’t for armour leash as it means you all have to play a certain style which may not work for certain classes like snipers don’t do close range but have a bulwark and what do you do as the bulwark holds an area but is melee focused but sniper can’t keep up with that with there dagger and 2 bars of armour
I actively carry with the sniper on lethal.
@@JebblesJunior I’ll be honest it is the armour leash that makes it not fun for me I’m fine with doing ruthless other changes I’m fine with like the ammo cache I’m fine with that as bulwark player the increased amount of extremis enemies is a welcome change (besides from double neruothropes fuck them) but the armour leash is a breaker I know it’s something I can get good it at but that comes down to how much patience do I have with my friends/randoms
Cue every person saying they lowered Ruthless difficulty to help prepare for Lethal to completely forget they said that.
Any advice for solo because i can't go online because of ps multiplayer cost btw at 6:47 and 7:17 I appreciate you saying that because i was going to do lethal and i DID complain but then i looked at the reward and thought "it isnt worth it" i dont like the helmet nor the sword and i got what i wanted so why bother.
Thank you for the comforting insult
It's gonna depend on how you like to play. Best advice is just don't use melee heavy units on chaos missions. Otherwise, there's so much to learn as you progress, I can't possibly cover it all.
I was expecting you to take a side on this topic and you didn't dissapoint me. I consider myself a normie player, I had to take 2 sick days out of work cause of reasons and guess what? I already have the goddamn helmet playing ONLY with rando's. More than skill issue, its a lack on frustration tolerance. You always make me laugh man, keep it up.
I just complain about the crashes............... and the fact that I can't find the blood splatter button because I want to shower myself with Xenos blood everytime I do an execution (can't find it in the settings. Maybe I'm blind?). If they iron out the crashes like it was pre patch 4.0, I'm good.
Dont mind the challenge tbh. But man the spawns are crazy especially with the shooting ones. Half the screen will get covered in bramble so fast you cant see a thing.
Brambles definitely are a major annoyance for sure.
I don't play lethal because I ain't kidding myself. I and the people I play with won't keep up with it. Simple as that. I know my own limits and I'm not arrogant enough to think I can bite off more than I can chew. The only benefit to doing it anyway is exclusive armour for the bragging rights, which is fine, just means you're a good player and earned those bragging rights. There's no other reason to play it if you can't handle it.
The challenge of lethal is awesome. I want it to be difficult and rewarding. But the armor tethering has got to go. Because it punishes certain players and classes for DOING THEIR JOB, and playing correctly. It’s not a matter of “simple teamwork”. It’s the devs half assing a counter productive mechanic to mimic another popular game, and doing so with low amounts of effort and IQ. Ever been the last brother standing on lethal? Good job! Your reward? No armor. It’s dumb and needs to go. Make lethal very very difficult but don’t punish players for doing their job with a low IQ half assed mechanic. I shouldn’t have to rub ass cheeks with my teammates in order to be a successful space marine. It’s anti lore too. Many space marines have done awesome shit SOLO. Some of us want to experience being a bad ass without having to help the scrubs by holding their peckers.
This isn’t my original take I’m stealing it from someone else. You shouldn’t punish players for playing your game. you should reward players instead so give player some sort of buff for sticking close together. Punishing players for playing your game is just going to get players to hate you.
Giving people a buff for the higher difficulty is the exact opposite of creating a higher difficulty.
@@JebblesJunior My bad I didn't mean for my OP to be so vague I'll try to explain myself better. I'm complaining about the cohesion armor tether mechanic they just added. It's an arbitrary rule that limits the players to sticking together rather than encouraging teamplay by giving players a reason to stick together (e.g. If players stick close together you get a damage boost or Increased damage resistance. Or instead of giving the player a buff give the AI a buff and make it so AI are more lethal and make smarter decisions like prioritising players who stray to far from the group sort of like the left 4 dead games). I have to no problem with lethal difficulty itself just the new tether mechanic. This tether mechanic doesn't make sense and shouldn't be in the game tbh IT'S HERESY.
Ever considered that maybe they could just increase difficulty without some weird handicap mechanic that restricts playstyles . Is that so hard to understand? The coherency mechanic in Darktide actually Buffs players for sticking together while still being pretty challenging on the highest difficulty. You know how the devs accomplished that ? By actually making the game more difficult in fun and engaging ways the higher you go in difficulty
As someone who sucks this video is spot on. I play what i find fun i don't care if that's not the top difficulty so i can tell all of my "friends" that i play the top difficulty. The game is still fun nothing has changed there's just another layer in the game for the absolute chads that genuinely need it.
Haven’t played lethal yet I think the armour tether is a bit finicky but it’s a a way to make it so you have to plan and communicate maybe increase the range slightly, ammo cache thing fine with makes sense, people who complain about it and such want it to be easy enough to run through it with near no issues if anything lethal is how Warhammer is in canon (I think) but I feel maybe some more rewards other than just a battle worn helmet and some decals maybe we could’ve had some other amour pieces have a unique look to it or something I would say buff some weapons slightly mainly bolter weapons and maybe have items increased slightly not lots but maybe a couple extras here and there but I’m looking forward to joining my battle brothers and blasting my way through xenos and heretics in this new difficulty not one for playing on really hard difficulties but I will on here did the campaign on the hardest difficulty at launch with 2 mates so will run every op on lethal. Now brothers let us purge the xenos and kill the heretics FOR THE EMPEROR BROTHERS
Bolter weapons definitely need to be brought up to par.
Lethal is fine.
I'd react to your line on the "pop auspex scan and delete the boss with GL and Melta bs" => It's still a thing, and it's THE thing to do to handle this difficulty with ease. So..
One problem also : All this I agree with when it comes to lethal, but several people showed that the AI Director is completely broken on lower difficulties, where it shouldn't be.
If they add another difficulty above Lethal like Jebbles wants, who wants to bet we go from fighting 3 Lictors to 3 Carnifexes at once like the campaign almost made us do?
If they add another difficulty above lethal all those creatures will be there on the day of it's release complaining that it's too hard and review bomb the game again.
ye gonna come back to helldivers 2?
Now now, I absolutely hate what they did this patch, and it has nothing AT ALL to do with skill or lack there off, the late patch ruthless was in a pretty confy spot for me, and I would have liked it to stay there, that being said, I absolutely think they should have added lethal and have it not be for everyone, that's something I'm completly fine with, the main issue is, they reduced the armour on ruthless, wich is something the comunity's been complaining from day one was week, they didn't buff the bolters, as the comunity been asking for, again since day one. I would absolutely play lethal, and I would love to have my shit kicked in, AS LONG as it is because the enemies and the game is challenging and not because my gear sucks balls the same effect can be achieved by different means. I personally would have been much more satisfied if we have had more enemies, or more agressive enemies, instead of "buh, there armor bad now, game hard" it's just... Not what he asked for. Not without a consistent way to recover health, and no, its not "git gud" and learn the mechanics, yesterday I hit 3 perfect dodges in a row against a terminus enemies, and all those 3 times I was hit by a follow up atack, because I was still locked in the animation. the game trows A LOT of bullshit at us, for them to nerf essentially the only survivability resourse we have that can be replenished in a consistent manner.
Edit: My main gripe is that they messed with a pre-existing dificulty, but I think Lethal is fine, and its not made for everyone, that is completly fine.
From what I've gathered the armor tweaks were in reaction to how the parry for armor mechanic boosted everyone's armor retention rate.
@@JebblesJunior why, it's likely, but it was a buff the community was asking for, so they basically gave us a buff that we asked and then went back on what they did. Honestly I would mind paper armor but with something less bullshity then the gaunts with ranged weapons, like, make the ranged attacks do less damage and the melee ones do more, like it usually is on the table top, wich in turn makes the game more about skill and less about RNG on what enemies whe will get... Just get rid of the stun lock melee
I'll be the first to admit I can't handle Lethal. It's called LETHAL, tho. I kind of went in with the assumption I'd need to develop the skills to handle it, and that it would kick my candy ass. And it is, but I'm slowly making progress, so you won't hear any complaining from me. Practice is how you build skills, I'll get there and when I do, I'll feel all the more proud for it.
Just having fun over here in my happy little corner. I'm developing the skills of a perfect dodge god and working out what builds I wanna use for it. That, and anticipating the Volkite gun we're getting soon.
I like lethal and the tether wasn't that bad. Only did 5/7 (time constraints) and 1,2, 4 were 1st try, 6 was 4 tries and 7 was 2 tries. It's difficult and fun but not impossible
As you said they can always drop difficulty, but everybody wants to pad themself on the back nowadays saying they play on the highest difficult and when they cant do that they begin complaining. The 30% nerf on auspex is only noticable on tyrant, I think its fine, you can actually learn the fight now instead of just skipping it. Also kraks exist, but they tend to forget about them when talking about melta nerf, which imo wasnt really a nerf, now its making ppl use it as was designed, which is deleting majoris packs from your screen.
Prior to lethal patch ruthless was borderline unplayable, because of how boring it was to play, the only time youd get some major health damage was shooting a barrel by accident or game just insta killing you because of a bug. Also nice drip raven boy
The only problem I have is the armor tether after that I have no problem with it
I have issues with the sniper, I feel like all you do is do DMG but not get kills. The tether sucks because you’re not really “sniping”, you’re out in a shitty situation being in the frontline as weaker melee and a weapon with limited ammo. Bolters and snipers need buffs so I can actually kill priority targets because magdumping headshots is not good or interesting difficulty. The tether limits the playstyle and puts Heavy/Assault/Sniper in a big disadvantage in terms of ranging out and that hurts you and teammates unnecessarily.
I’ve beaten a couple missions on Lethal but it looks like the meta is heavy plasma incinerator, Bulwarks, and tactical for this difficulty. I’m sure skilled players in other classes can all manage as I have but it’s noticeably more of a struggle and can hinder the team.
Snipers in this game aren't meant to be the killers. They set up kills to boost frontline units' survivability. But even then, with headshot based perks and damage cloak, you still one shot majoris.
Not killing or damaging priority targets is down to the player, not the class. I do want a heavy headshot modifier on the bolt sniper though.
@@JebblesJunior Yeah that’s more what I meant I should’ve clarified because the Las Fusil is limited and charged shots scoped in can be difficult against Tyranids. I do disagree though because traditionally snipers are the killers, they have the niche role of sniping high priority targets and it would be nice if you didn’t waste so much ammo trying to kill warriors, whatever I shoot at I intend to kill rather than watch someone else get the execute every time. When the chips are down and you’re the last guy standing you’re almost always screwed as Heavy or Sniper when you can’t get the revive. Granted this isn’t fun for anyone but other classes have that survivability and greater melee to hold your own. Even the Vanguard can survive better with the fencing sword and melta. I agree they’re support but that’s all they can ever be right now, you only ever need them for Zoanthropes and Neuros, every thing else you can get on fine with other classes.
Sniper is in my view pretty redundant since I’d rather sub that out for Heavy w/Plasma Incinerator, sure it’s less DMG but it’s more helpful for everything else.
This video is pure therapy for me. I was getting so upset with all this whine. And it's not that I am clearing lethal solo or something. I am a 40 year old casual with the reaction speed of a snail and a love for playing assault. I have difficulty playing on Substantial, but you know what? I am having so much fun, way more than when I was clearing ruthless for a laugh. That just didn't feel right. The difficulty is fine. I hope the devs do not cave.
I’d be more than willing to try it if I could connect to the damn servers, haven’t been able to play since the update launched. Did all the trouble shooting I could(uninstall/reinstall, verify files, restart my laptop) but nothing works.
I like that lethal is hard is supposed to be hard but at the same time , 20 minoris 10 majoris 2 lictors 1 ravanger an two zoanthopes at the same time is kinda bullshit , also kinda love it
I see the playerbase for warhammer is taking the same path as the devs from helldivers 2
things are playable....but they are most defintely not fine, and this argument has no relation to PvP but that too needs some small work and perhaps more focused gamemodes
I think the whole idea of PVP is if everything is broken, nothing is.
I love lethal and everything that came with it. The difficulty gives me a feeling that ruthless did before the nerfs. The melta nerfs & everything that came with them can be argued about and may be good or bad. But the only really annoying thing is the armor regen nerf in lethal. It sounds like a good thing on paper but in reality it fucking sucks. You can't explore the many different playstyles the game and the perks offer you with some classes as it always forces you to stick around your teammates.
Its put there as a skill check and people are upset they can't frag.
You can still manage different styles, you just can't get your ass beat while employing them. Tether does need an extension, but a lot of people just don't know how to work around it.
@@JebblesJunior Mfers got too comfortable playing ruthless after the recent tweaks before this, it's time to buckle up!
Do what your favorite chapter says about you, fan made chapters edition. And make sure to include the Angry Marines
No.
@@JebblesJuniorgottem
"But it's soo hawrd" Yeah, that's the point. Does the tether need some refinement to account for some classes? Maybe, but that's more an issue on class imbalance than the actual difficulty
Correction: thats more an issue of an arbitrary mechanic being entirely contrary to the normal gameplay loop literally invalidating almost half the playstyles in the game when it doesnt need to at *all*
@@thesocialistsarecoming8565 Even without the coherency mechanic, there are still a lot of issues with some classes just not having enough self-sustain or dps support for more difficulties. Like Bulwark struggles HARD on any Chaos mission bc you're basically forced back by the amount of bolter fire, even though they still have the banner and shield to help them not die. Vanguard could technically not die on Lethal, but the way the skills are built does not provide enough utility for it compared to taking other classes with 3 armor and better weapons/range. The tether range could be increased to an entire battle zone and it still wouldn't change how much these classes need to be reworked
@@idc681me and the boys werent having issues with dps with the classes even on lethal, enemies were definitely tankier tho.
Edit: in hindsight, we also went on alt accounts to do ruthless missions with level 1 classes, so maybe its just a built up tolerance to health sponge 😅
The tether honestly should just be changed to 'no default armor regen' while out of tether. That way people cant dodge roll for 50 seconds to regen armor. It preventing armor regen from fighting is genuinely just stupid lol
@@thesocialistsarecoming8565 I would agree on that for the tether if it wasn't for the fact that base armor generation on Lethal is so long you'll probably regen armor from enemies anyway.
Tether I feel should be capped armor generation to one segment/nearest to filled segment out of coherency, normal armor generation near one other teammate, and an ARMOR damage reduction at full coherency to make the damage values against you to maybe pre-2.0 Ruthless for most enemies, maybe a bit more depending on how things pan out
This video gave me more inspiration to not give up and to improve on myself thank you
Yes thank u! Lethal is fine hell I don't have a issue with the armor tether. I also don't care that they removed it. I understand why for class like Sniper, assault an vanguard but I can take it or leave it personally
The title says it all and it 100% applies to me. I suck and probably wont beat lethal for a while. And im totally fine with it. I have fun with the game regardless.
I'm happy there's something challenging for the guys that are into challenges. I'll keep leveling myself (not the character) up on substantial and ruthless in the meantime.
I only got SM2 4 days ago and have not leveled for lethal yet. But I beat elden Ring as a wretch. I'm definitely prepared. It's simply just improve. I know I'm gonna die when I try lethal but that's how you get better.
Finally, a true brother speaking fact. I did lethal with a brother and boy was it a rush. Wd didn't succeed but having three ravagers and hokding the line was epic as F. I do agree the Cohesion should be longer range or similar.
6:06 goated statement
There is a weird thing with TH-camrs covering this difficulty and all saying if you solo this difficulty or play it with randos successfully that we're liars. Feel like that's a disservice in some way, I don't know.
I don't really see it that way. But I also don't see the brag in it because it's usually one silent member and one dying member than you're dragging through.
@JebblesJunior well, I'd say the brag of it comes from the helmet you get. Would it be wrong for someone then to sport the helmet within the first few days of this new patch if they'd completed the challenge with Randoms or not, does it really matter?
Further more if someone were "dragging" their team of Randoms along during their ventures wouldn't it further increase their validity of having earned such an achievement, having two extra handicaps?
Agreed. Minimal, veteran, and substantial should be easy for the casuals. Because this game deserves popularity and money. However, ruthless and lethal are for hardcore gamers only. I dont care if you want to tell your friends you beat the hardest mode, i dont care if you feel those cosmetics should be given to everyone. You have base game(which alone is already fucking amazing) all the bonus stuff are reserved for the people who put in the effort. As it should be, only a heretic would look at something gained through hard work and demand it be given to them for free.
Buff the weapons a little
Remove that friendship thing bar
Add more weapons
Buff bolters, expand tether range, more weapons are always good.
@@JebblesJunior just remove it or put it beneath screen
Honestly yeah, only real issue i have for this update is how bad bolt weapons feel right now. (Just cause Im a bolter simp) and that 'maybe' glitch where you just can't regain armor at all when your teammates are dead on Lethal.
I think they could at least give you a full armor stack to live with when everyone goes down, but I'm not sure.
@@JebblesJunior Honestly I think that'd be fine, just right now it's kinda wack since unless a class has a special perk to regain armor like Bulwark can they're just significantly dunked on by the game for not being the one to mess up.
It's got some great stuff. These are my personal complaints.
1.) No respawn at checkpoints. This does nothing but waste a huge amount of time.
2.) Tight Formation. Not a fan. If they keep it, they could improve it with the next point.
3.) During last stand you have no way to get armor unless you're bulwark. But players have 5 minute respawn and you can reduce by 20 sec per major kill. Let the final person get armor back.
1.) Only makes the game worse
3.) Builds excitement and works as a come back mechanic that allows recovery from 1 bad hit
Having no respawns on checks is an incredibly odd mechanic.
@JebblesJunior doesn't serve any purpose. If you're struggling you feel forced to wait. If your doing ok you'll do it to maximize your chances because shit happens.
I 100% agree, i dont think they should've touched the lower difficulties though. Let everyone have their fun but give everyone else have lethal just the way it is. If anyone says its too easy on ruthless, tell them to equip the lowest tier weapons and drop all perks on everything. Of course its gonna be easy after 100 hours plus and all the perks and up grades. But lethal? Naw, lethals fine just like it is
I think the rationale was they have the armor on parry for sustain, but had to take some armor off the top for it to make sense.
Was that a handsome Jack reference at the end? lmao
Thank you for noticing.
Lethal is excellent. I just think the coherency mechanic is really badly implemented. Mostly as it makes some play styles unable to work effectively. The vanguard can't be the vanguard, and the sniper or heavy can't effectively be long-range support. Still managed to complete it, though, and love fighting 3 lictors 😁
How about 4 rocket terminators?)
@Sargatas not fought them yet. Can't say I'm exactly looking forward to it either
I'm of the opinion that there's 2 camps for tight formation-
Not really affected: Heavy and Bulwark
and
REALLY affected: Sniper, Assault, and Vanguard.
Tactical is the only one tha's a toss up because his playstyle is so versatile. He could sit in his heavy's or bulwark's laps and help wave clear, or he can fill in for Sniper and sit in the back to set up executions. His chosen playstyle determines how much the mechanic affects him.
@@mistah3687 sniper doesn't give a shit for the most part either tbh, he still nukes elites and against enraged enemies he is the most effective.
Vanguard can just spit on this mechanic too because most of his survivability comes from being able to heal himself, also his team perk can make your bulwark a banner spam machine.
But assault...ya, he has really hard times now because he is the only melee class that can do nothing with health. And he can lose all of it in a blink of an eye. Against tyranids he still is good, but I will never pick assault on chaos missions ever again...
@mistah3687 it should have been an armour buff that got stronger as you close together rather than a debuff that punishes players, I think.
honestly the difficulty isn't actually too bad, Like I feel like I can get pretty far even if I do it solo, i won't succeed mind you, but i'll get decently far, but the problem is that the randos that I teamed up with keeps being assholes and cowards, when they permadie once and just leaves the match, and that just frustrates me since I don't have any friends who play this game so I'm forced to either do it solo, or with randos
Truth right here and you got a new sub. ggs
This whole situation just reminds me of what happened when Helldivers got level 10 added. A bunch of people complaining that it is too hard (to be fair that was probably because half the guns sucked at the time but thankfully AH buffed near about everything) when if you tried enough it would get easier and now they're restarting the cycle by saying the games too easy after all the buffs and bug fixes we got. Trust me, whenever level 11 and so on gets added it's gonna be this same situation all over again.
The player base for HD2 has a tendency to whine a lot, sadly.
Also,
Raven Guard, nice
As somebody who completed termination on lethal in 1 go yesterday, Lethal sucks for 1 reason. Tight formation. I'm super glad we've got this new challenging mode, glad to have a genuinely higher difficulty. But tight formation is antithetical and harmful to class identity, they'd got to remove it or change it completely because it simply isn't fun to not be able to do what a class is supposed to, what you choose a class to be able to do. Other than that, had fun monstering on 3 lictors & a carnifex.
You're supposes to support your teammates. The only one that it may hinder is a sniper. And even then I'd say just get good
@@rossgadsby9663 vanguard, assault, heavy with bolter, bulwark depending on playstyle, *and* sniper all have major aspects of the class at best handicapped at worst maimed by the tether mechanic.
The tether mechanic is sinply contrary to the gameplay loop, if they keep it it would be best for it to stop natural armor regen (i.e. the wait 50 seconds and grt your armor back mechanic) or just slightly reduce armor regen from combat mechanics (i.e. 25-50%)
@@rossgadsby9663 Nah
@rossgadsby9663 Sniper, Assault, Vanguard, Heavy without multi-melta
You know, just half the classes. Not too big a deal.
@@rossgadsby9663 Were you dropped on the head or something?. How does being within fingering distance of your teammates promote supporting each other . You can still support your team without hugging them 24/7 by doing stuff like Sniping, providing covering fire or drawing aggro as a melee class . The tether makes those playstyle unnecessarily bothersome
8:36 bro im tryna eat my cereal💀
I just dislike the massive melta bomb nerf. -70% effectiveness to bosses is cruel and defeats the primary purpose of the bomb (there were several other nerfs that i havnt dealt with yet and cant comment)
And as for the armor tethering i wish it had more distance to it and offers sheild when both teammates are gone.
I still enjoy the game but this update couldve felt better
Meltas weren't really designed to nuke bosses so much as they were supposed to delete a large number of enemies from a specific area. Like a frag, but super.
@@JebblesJuniornot really tho, its AoE doesnt fit the horde clear type, its a pseudo trap, meaning place and lure something into it for a reward....ie Bosses
Lethal difficulty is in it's name "Lethal" it's supposed to be hard
Finally, a video that says it. All i see on the reddit page is just cry babies with helldrivers2 PTSD. like they could legally be diagnosed with PTSD, that is how bad it is. Also helldivers 2 is on a much better state then at launch and they fixed most of everything in less then a month but your attention span can only last a couple hours i guess.