I like Dr. Vagy - he definitely helped me recover from stenosing tenosynovitis (trigger finger). I followed the rehab from his videos and book. I had even made an appointment to see him here in LA, but his vids did the trick. And I still use them in my pre-climb warmup. Big thumbs up from me. Btw, lovin' your climbing show, Ryan!
So cool to hear that his videos helped you to rehab yourself. Jared has given back to the community in huge ways. And thanks for the kind words about my show, I really appreciate the support!
This dude's videos are helping me to treat my second pulley sprain right now. While you shouldn't skip your local doctor, the information provided by the climbing doctor is invaluable.
Love this, I've been dealing with finger pain in my middle fingers for months, I have taken days off and even a week off and it comes right back before the end of the session; unless I do a solid finger warm up. I started gradually raising the weight I put on them via hang board till I am at full body weight for the first 20min to 30min of the session.
So what does this 50 move warmup realistically look like? Can I do 100 moves on gradually increasing difficulty climbs(up to 70% of max grade) and be good? Should it be a mix of easy climbing and hangboard?
Coach here. What it could look like, practically. At the gym, with routes ; 15m routes have around 30 moves. Choose routes that are sustained, that you know. One route "easy", say 6a if you're climbing 7b max. Reste for 5-8min. Then another route "harder", say 6b+/6c. That will put you around 60-70 moves. Sustained routes, in most gyms, are easier in the beginning and gets harder towards the top achieving the goal. At the gym, with boulders ; One boulder usually have around 8 moves. Choose boulders that look really straightforward. Start about 4 "colors" of difficulty under your max, or even at the very beginning of the scale. If it's graded on a whole scale (V scale for example), start about 6 grades under your max (climbing at V8, start on V1 or V2). Climb one boulder, rest for about 1/2min. Get to the next grade. If it's color graded, climb about two boulders of each color. 6 to 7 boulders should get you warmed-up on around 50 moves or so. You should flash all the boulders, excepted maybe for the last two of your warm-up. If they doesn't go second go, change boulder. At the crag ; If there are routes that you know and are well-suited for warm-up, use them (well suited : no hard crux, sustained for the grade, no hard move). You can warm up on one route, and then have a warm up go in your project if you want to preserve skin (warm up go : not trying to send. Skip the crux if needed, especially if located during the first half of the route. Take rests at each draw, or each two draws). If there's not route, portable hangboard. Gradually increase the load by using what's available. gradually increase hang duration to reach minimal pump.
Yeah I’m coming across as a troll. I’ll listen to full podcast, but really when someone uses the word “proven” and then says “I looked at some research” I wanna see the data. Did not see a whole lot of links on his site or in the free sample download of his book. Lots of valuable rehab information. But no holy grail of research proving that doing some intervention will prevent injury or at what rate.
Not trolly at all- healthy skepticism is always good and welcomed. Based on our conversation, the paper doesn’t put that warm-up protocol up as some bulletproof definitive way to prevent all injuries… But it had pretty compelling indicators that a progressive loading strategy like that did the best job of preventing finger injuries. More nuance than a short TH-cam video or title can capture, but the main ideas are sound, at least from what he was relaying, but definitely check it out and report back!
The original article citation for the 100 moves is: Schweizer A. Biomechanical properties of the crimp grip position in rock climbers. J Biomech. 2001;34(2):217-23. The literature recommends to set a goal of 50 moves for each hand, for a total of 100 moves, with increasing intensity, as a proper warm-up. It was actually a pretty cool study where they measured the physiologic bowstringing of the tendon while warming up. A structured warm up as part of any rock-climbing session has been shown to increase the amount of physiologic bowstringing of the flexor tendons, specifically in the crimp grip position, by up to 30%. However, it is important to note that this is “inferred” injury prevention and not “proven” injury prevention. Meaning, we are inferring that the increase in the amount of physiologic bowstringing and subsequent plateau are preparing the pulleys for pulling hard but we do not have a study that shows a comparison related to injuries: For example if a group of participants performs 50 progressive moves and another one does not - who gets injured…Hope that helps clarify!
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I like Dr. Vagy - he definitely helped me recover from stenosing tenosynovitis (trigger finger). I followed the rehab from his videos and book. I had even made an appointment to see him here in LA, but his vids did the trick. And I still use them in my pre-climb warmup. Big thumbs up from me. Btw, lovin' your climbing show, Ryan!
So cool to hear that his videos helped you to rehab yourself. Jared has given back to the community in huge ways. And thanks for the kind words about my show, I really appreciate the support!
This dude's videos are helping me to treat my second pulley sprain right now. While you shouldn't skip your local doctor, the information provided by the climbing doctor is invaluable.
Happy you find the videos helpful. It took a ton of work to make them - so glad they are being put to use!
Love this, I've been dealing with finger pain in my middle fingers for months, I have taken days off and even a week off and it comes right back before the end of the session; unless I do a solid finger warm up. I started gradually raising the weight I put on them via hang board till I am at full body weight for the first 20min to 30min of the session.
So what does this 50 move warmup realistically look like? Can I do 100 moves on gradually increasing difficulty climbs(up to 70% of max grade) and be good? Should it be a mix of easy climbing and hangboard?
From what I understand, 100 moves on gradually increasing difficulty is exactly what works per the paper he cited.
Coach here. What it could look like, practically.
At the gym, with routes ;
15m routes have around 30 moves. Choose routes that are sustained, that you know. One route "easy", say 6a if you're climbing 7b max. Reste for 5-8min. Then another route "harder", say 6b+/6c. That will put you around 60-70 moves. Sustained routes, in most gyms, are easier in the beginning and gets harder towards the top achieving the goal.
At the gym, with boulders ;
One boulder usually have around 8 moves. Choose boulders that look really straightforward. Start about 4 "colors" of difficulty under your max, or even at the very beginning of the scale. If it's graded on a whole scale (V scale for example), start about 6 grades under your max (climbing at V8, start on V1 or V2). Climb one boulder, rest for about 1/2min. Get to the next grade. If it's color graded, climb about two boulders of each color. 6 to 7 boulders should get you warmed-up on around 50 moves or so. You should flash all the boulders, excepted maybe for the last two of your warm-up. If they doesn't go second go, change boulder.
At the crag ;
If there are routes that you know and are well-suited for warm-up, use them (well suited : no hard crux, sustained for the grade, no hard move). You can warm up on one route, and then have a warm up go in your project if you want to preserve skin (warm up go : not trying to send. Skip the crux if needed, especially if located during the first half of the route. Take rests at each draw, or each two draws).
If there's not route, portable hangboard. Gradually increase the load by using what's available. gradually increase hang duration to reach minimal pump.
Does it have to be finger curls? Or can it be isometric hangs??
So where is the self assessment link?
I too was wondering where the link was
Oh jeez, sorry I forgot to add it. Will update it now -- thanks for letting me know! And thanks for watching :)
Check yourselves, it might be hydration too
This!
Warm up. Nothing new. I advocate multiple pulling positions as well. Commom sense
I would like to see this literature he is referencing because I am skeptical his claims around injury prevention.
He cites multiple studies throughout the full interview, and also on his website
Yeah I’m coming across as a troll. I’ll listen to full podcast, but really when someone uses the word “proven” and then says “I looked at some research” I wanna see the data. Did not see a whole lot of links on his site or in the free sample download of his book.
Lots of valuable rehab information. But no holy grail of research proving that doing some intervention will prevent injury or at what rate.
Not trolly at all- healthy skepticism is always good and welcomed. Based on our conversation, the paper doesn’t put that warm-up protocol up as some bulletproof definitive way to prevent all injuries… But it had pretty compelling indicators that a progressive loading strategy like that did the best job of preventing finger injuries. More nuance than a short TH-cam video or title can capture, but the main ideas are sound, at least from what he was relaying, but definitely check it out and report back!
F
The original article citation for the 100 moves is:
Schweizer A. Biomechanical properties of the crimp grip position in rock climbers. J Biomech. 2001;34(2):217-23.
The literature recommends to set a goal of 50 moves for each hand, for a total of 100 moves, with increasing intensity, as a proper warm-up. It was actually a pretty cool study where they measured the physiologic bowstringing of the tendon while warming up. A structured warm up as part of any rock-climbing session has been shown to increase the amount of physiologic bowstringing of the flexor tendons, specifically in the crimp grip position, by up to 30%. However, it is important to note that this is “inferred” injury prevention and not “proven” injury prevention. Meaning, we are inferring that the increase in the amount of physiologic bowstringing and subsequent plateau are preparing the pulleys for pulling hard but we do not have a study that shows a comparison related to injuries: For example if a group of participants performs 50 progressive moves and another one does not - who gets injured…Hope that helps clarify!