Rev up your engines! 30 + modules - holy crap how did we survive with points, no seat belt and 7 ash trays! Mfg's. need to update there software to report better on all these modules as 1 flaw on a network can take out the whole vehicle. Thanks again to Ivan for all these detailed videos..
One thing stands out when watching all diagnostics channels on TH-cam is that information is absolutely vital to attempt any wiring issues, second only to ability to use said info of course!! brilliant video as always
Oh thank God you posted the source of the problem tonight. I was already packing up my truck to drive to Pine Hollow from Alabama to find out what the heck was going on with this car! You saved me the trip. (even though it's winter time up there, and I have spent a bunch of wintry days in Western PA, servicing coal mining equipment...... way too cold for a southern boy)
Perhaps we’ve crossed paths at some time in the last 4.5 decades Johnnie? I’m still here here in Western Pa. , in coal mining equip. , shivering through yet another winter, asking “Why am I doing this?” 😂
@@brianw8963 Our little engineering company had electronics on Joy, Anderson Maver, Long Airdox, Eickhoff , Eimco Addington, and a couple others. Spent a lot of time in Consol mines, and also Emerald down in Waynesburg. Somehow, nothing ever broke in spring and fall, it was always winter.
Never have I seen a triple fuse. Not the only one from the comments. Learn something new everyday. The can wires seem to be a twisted pair ? The scope and the circuit diagram is a must along with a multimeter and an experienced brain box 📦. The length of time ⏲ taken to reduce the current is quite substantial taken all factors into account. The newer models are far more sensitive than previous ones and adaptability to different conditions is required. That being said this was a very successful 👏 👌 diagnosis and left the customer with a healthy battery prognosis and an opportunity to drive off into the sunset 🌇.
Retired auto tech here. I always hated parasitic drains especially in newer auto's. Awesome video Ivan. You have some great troubleshooting skills. Scope use in finding it was awesome. Gotta love all the modules,networks . Ii cant imagine in five years. What's next.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics All you have is a 4-year engineering degree from Cornell University and you did your graduate work at Penn State. (I believe you have this in your bio.) You shouldn't even think of repairing this. I work with people every day that have that ASE certification and they washed-out as techs. Their wives must draw them a map to get to work. If a dealership could have repaired this, why do you have it? Great video!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I used to be ASE certified but it never made me any more money and I paid for testing because my employer wouldn't pay for it. Ultimately I left the industry and got into another field. Too many shops require the mechanic to pay for everything. Tools, scanners, and certifications. All while making chump change.
Perfect logical process of elimination, but as you said, you need the right equipment in order to do that. Another great video. Thank you for taking the time to do such detailed recording of your process.
Friday at work I taught a young buck scientific method.and logic on a network for our school district. I had isolated to one bldg. The young just started ripping and tearing. I am watching my scope go nuts. I stopped him. Showed him how to do it logically. We found the problem in about an hour. A network is a network. Whether it's in a bldg or a car. Nice work my friend
Nice work, Ivan. As you mentioned so many of these modules are problematic and battery hogs. Ford seemed to address this on the new vehicles by shutting down the module at a certain battery voltage. I drive a '22 Transit 3500, with the My Ford app I get a notification that remote features are unavailable due to low voltage after sitting for 2-3 days...but at least it still starts well after a week of sitting. 👍👍
I still remember how mind blowing voltage drop accross fuses for checking parasitic draws was. Still fascinated by thermal imaging. Watching network activity to determine a draw is new wave!
Very good diagnostics testing! Glad to see it wasn't a necessary module! Ford has one of the longest "timeout" for the vehicle to go to sleep. Even the Ford trucks we had at work took 40 to 45 minutes to shut down. I found under 0.050 amps was acceptable.
That truly is the Lincoln that would drive someone to drinkin'. The Hot Rod Lincoln song was 60 years ahead of its time. 30+ modules, what seems like a pattern among these cars of parasitic draws, mutant 3 leg fuses that you can't get to, and oh, the wonderful timing chain driven water pumps. That car is a winner. Good job Ford.
Ford use the exact same BCM on the newer Transit Custom vans. Tucked away at an angle under the dash, you have to take quite a few trim parts off to get to them. Really common for water ingress into them too and the angle they sit allows the water to pool rather than drain out. The common symptoms set is rear sliding door open, horn stuck on (eventually times out and sets a button stuck code), parking brake on warning and the hazard lights come on when removing the key.
Hi Ivan As always you are sharp, spot on 😉 2 years ago I have bought a Mazda CX30 and at Xmas time I haven't drowed the car, between Christmas and new year, it was totally flat for power, still garanty on car, hook up some jump power, and went to OE, they had a TSB on this from Japan, SW update, because one or two of the ECU would not go to sleep. After that SW update it worked again.
Nice job Ivan. You certainly take on the tough ones. I had a Chrysler with a couple of modules that were pulling down the battery. I disconnected and removed them. Last I knew they were still lying in the bottom of the trunk! Thanks for Sharing!
Most efficient parasitic draw find method I have seen on a modern vehicle! I definitely will adopt this strategy myself! Thanks for that🙂 All things being the same, the only method that could beat it is an infrared camera. But, in this case, with the location of that unit, that would not have worked here. This method is way more entertaining and educational every time anyway!😂
ASE certificate also comes with experience means you have to be studying and practicing to get it but in your case ivan you already have mountain of experience no need to get that paper to prove that you are a experienced and a great auto tech.great thing about your way of working is you dont just work for get your per hour fee.you work to get the job done make customer happy with less weight on his pocket.anyways great job once again.cheers
Fantastic video showing how to prioritize the steps in the diagnosis of this problem. What you call neat and cool other techs dread having to deal with especially dealer techs if the car is under warranty because their not paid more than .5 to diagnose. At least that what it was when I was a dealer tech back in the 80’s.
On my 2010 Taurus, I caught a parasitic draw with the exact same behavior as this. My theory was that something was constantly waking up and going to sleep, but I thought it would be impossible to figure it out since my DMMs shut off after extended inactivity. I don't drive this car a lot, but for over a year I've been relegated to having to start it up once a week just to stave off the dead battery. Before I didn't know how much funny business these modules get into, but I definitely know where to turn my focus too now.
GM wants On Star to remain ON for an extended period of time after shut down. Because in the event of a wreck or any kind of emergency they want On Star to continue to be available for sending emergency info. Since our radio handles a portion of the On Star feature we had to stay fully powered up for 5 minutes after car OFF. And also the radio had to work down to about 6V battery in case of stranded in a remote area and needing to call for help on On Star after being stranded for 5 days. It was difficult for lab bench testing because after sending signal to shutdown it would stay powered for at least 5 minutes so software dept had to create special firmware that allowed a full shutdown in a few seconds instead of such a long wait. And trying to get software to do anything for the engineering department was harder than pulling teeth.
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. I have EXACTLY the car you diagnose--a 2016 MKX--and it is actually red. And, I am from State College. Amazing. As it turns out, I have the same problem. Had a new battery installed in September (routine as it was 5 years old) and six weeks ago the car is dead in the morning. I put the charger on it (maybe I left a light on?) and restarted it. A week later the same thing. So I take it to the dealer--I am out of town for 10 days, told them to fix it--and they put in a new battery under warranty. Then i drive to our house in Florida and yesterday morning the battery is dead again...I take it to the Lincoln dealer and of course they have no clue. But thanks to Ivan I know the problem. And, now i know who to call when i am back north!
Actually, I had a 1974 Ford Maverick that had the fuse panel attached to the firewall next to the steering column. I had to lay on my back to access it. Then in 1976, they did away with the hand-operated emergency brake and went to a foot operated one. Where the handle was for the emergency brake on the later models they mounted the fuse panel. Then all you had to do was remove a cover. Why couldn't they have done this 2 years earlier? LOL. Great video!
I have a Lincoln with a battery drain also. Thanks to the video I found the problem in the first place I looked. Saved hours of checking. Great videos.
@@jackadam9480 I have a MKZ with a battery drain problem. I unplugged the telematics. Fixed the drain with no other troubles for the past year. Never used the telematics features anyway.
Thank you for your video! I was having the same problem. My 2016 mkx would be dead as a door nail after only a few days, with a new battery! I went to disconnect the telematics module but before I did, I put my Amazon-priced scanner on the car and queried the module. No trouble codes, but the scanner reported the internal temp. of the thing was 98 degrees! The car had been sitting in a 60 degree F garage for at least 6 hours with the doors locked and everything off. No wonder they locate this thing below a vent grill. I disconnected it and stuck a note on it explaining the reason why, and I haven’t had a dead battery since.
That has got to be the stupidest most irresponsible damn place to put a fuse box how the heck do they expect you to get to it under the airbag and have it explode on you that's just dumb thank you for the video can I believe the amount of modules on that vehicle unbelievable man love it
This is where all the time spent on the previous cars pays off nicely!! Well done and quick! You may not always get paid for your time, but the experience you get for that time is priceless. All the people who want to get paid for every minute spent and refuse to do work unless they get paid will never get to this level of quick troubleshooting and of course the personal satisfaction of nailing down a problem right away.
I want to see the fix. Hope there is a part 3. Would be interesting to see what Ford/Lincoln has as for a bulletin on this one. Something is causing that module to cycle and wake up. Just unplugging a module isn’t fixing a problem. The car might have a cellular/wifi activity problem that may only need a software update. Common in new cars that have those telematics modules.
I forgot what model years, but the telemetrics modules were 3g and when that was being phased out, they would be useless. I think FOMOCO offered an updated version but my memory does not serve me well.
I think unplugging a useless telematics module is good enough to call it a fix. I can imagine in the future cars will be full of raspberry PIs to emulate modules that can no longer connect to the internet.
@@MTLeopold it really isn’t good enough of a fix to just unplug a module. If your windshield wipers are stuck on, you’re not going to just pull the fuse, right? This is the same. Someone in the comments put a link to the bulletin on that module and vehicles affected. To figure out why something failed, is what makes things better in the future. Preventative maintenance. Example is when Ivan broke down that CVT transmission to figure out what caused it to fail.
Great video. Thank you. Needless to say my skepticism towards ford never products rose up( one of my cars is f150 and so far I was spared of electric issues)
Amazing how one stupid magic box can cause all these headaches! With batteries at or near $200 now, it's not only inconvenient but SUPER expensive, too! This is the first time I've seen that odd triple fuse! Automakers love changing crap for no reason. Throws a wrench into repairs. I was just getting used to J-case fuses! It never ends. Anyway, great diagnostics as always, Ivan! 👍👍
Great module chase, Ivan! I was aiming for the DSP, once you mentioned a hiss in the speaker, but it was the damn telematics module 🙂 Whatever, well done!
I’m in Australia and have a Ford Endura, it’s actually a Ford Edge from you guys. (Toyota had the Edge naming rights over here) It has triple fuses and I’m half a century old and never seen them before.
@@michaelslee4336 I have about 8 to 10 years on you and have never come across these either. (Of course I am not a mechanic so maybe if I was, these would have been a common site) Hi from Canada!
You touch one fuse and everything changes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣From one auto spark to another well done m8 that was the funnyest thing ive heard in a long while , you sound like a mechanic telling a customer he needs an auto electrician 👍👍👍👍👍 Fantastic as always Ivan keep up the good work m8 ....
Good one Ivan. 👏 Knew that it was gonna be telematics. Cars are like cell phones now. Very similar to battery drain from misbehaving apps that won't sleep. I see ford hasn't improved their wiring solutions since the 90's either. What a rat's nest.
This part was my first assumption!! Ford used these on their C-Max Hybrid plug-ins and they were notorious for not shutting off draining the 12v battery.
Super job! Keep communication modules in deep distrust. To communicate up in the gigahertz range, you need power transistors with microscopic junctions-- invisible and very fragile components. Distrust!
Nice work Ivan! I probably would have written a little note on the module just in case someone goes looking someday but it's all good. Really like your vintage Honda poster! I remember those from when I was a kid.
Ivan, just a FYI to the right of the stereo screen if there is a 360 deg. rear camera button, the vehicle has the optional technology pkg. On bottom left of steering wheel if there is a button with two arrows facing eachother and 2 arrows facing away from eachother, that is the drivers assistance optional pkg.
Ok. Take the unit out and open it up just to see if you can see the problem! The unit is bad and she doesn't need it so she might let you pull it and take a look! Thanks for the video.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics As someone else mentioned, the issue could be that the mobile data network it uses is no longer in service. Maybe part of the widespread discontinuation of 3G services, for example. That 1 minute 40 secs is conspicuously 100 secs, just the sort of round number that a programmer might choose as the interval for retrying the connection. Someone elsewhere in the comments mentioned a related service bulletin and available upgrade.
Did you pick that module first because of the speaker static ? Or a little SWAG luck. I agree scope helped immensely . We used analog scope in 80’s at Saab dealer. No storage or freeze but was a good start. We worn out half a dozen of the old b/w vantage meters. Best tool ever. I’m glad to be on the sideline now watching your logical steps to a cure ‼️ Del.
I too share the side line for 8 yrs now, because of you I can't let go.your videos are addictive to Me. And ur logic is beyond compare. Another really nice job. Frank
Think that fuse panel is bad to get to, try a 2020 Ford Transit. FYI, the 3 prong fuses are called ATL fuses. Also, for you Ivan, the DACM-C is the Digital Audio Control Module. For advanced premium audio staging and processing for listening positions in the car, like separate audio options for rear seat entertainment, or the illusion of a center stage for the driver or passenger for real life studio feel.
Does the pico have a CAN decoder to tell the ID number of the problem module? Finding the associated number in the service information may be a different story.
Thanks bud! Not only did you give me some new ideas for IOD testing, but you helped me get this MKX back to the customer faster than I would have otherwise worked through it. A double decker BJB and the BCM mounted by Satan himself. WTaF?
Had to Google TCU. Info from one article: The TCU collects telemetry data from the vehicle, such as position, speed, engine data, connectivity quality etc through interfacing with various sub-systems over data and control busses in the vehicle. It may also provide in-vehicle connectivity via Wifi and Bluetooth and implements the eCall function on applicable markets. The Wifi and Bluetooth functions could be an issue if they are now disabled.
I Googled the part; What is Telematics Control Unit Ford? Telematics control unit (TCU) is the embedded onboard system that controls wireless tracking, diagnostics and communication to and from the vehicle. These systems can be used in eCall crash notification, electronic tolling and vehicle tracking, among many others. Does the owner use these systems?
Is this in the same place for the MKC? I had a speaker buzz like yours did a bit back, then car wouldn’t start and I ran a test and swapped the battery, after swapping the battery the audio system wouldn’t turn on (didn’t think much of it), and then now this morning my car won’t start again and I’m charging up the battery. I’m convinced it’s rooted in the same issue since the circuit you were talking about was all of the audio stuff.
when u reinstalled fuse the single fuse did u turn off ignition key then turn back on ? it seems strange a blown fuse keep lights on ? excellant video i wonder what the dealer would done with this one had he taken to one
I wonder with all the troubles I'm hearing about Ford if those "services" like MyLincoln might be being abandoned, but with modules programmed to become increasingly frantic to phone home. It's not uncommon when server connected IOT are abandoned by the company.
It’s not being abandoned and unplugging that module or it’s equivalent on a vehicle equipped with sync 4 would probably cause problems. Sync 4 automatically updates Sync, Maps, and module programming in addition to remote access services and notifying operators of trouble conditions.
I didn't believe my eyes when he held it up. 😆 I thought most of these telematic systems shut down after a few years. I assume they are for updates and GPS locators that only work until the warranty runs out.
I wonder if that module is hating the 3G and 2G shutdown and crashes when it can't find any service and it maybe can't handle 5G cells. Car modules have something called watchdog, basically a automatic reset button if something goes wrong. If the software crashes they will reset and try again rather than locking up. I would guess there is an update for this module that fixes the behavior.
Have a Chevy Silverado 3500 . Drain on battery took a few days to go dead. Everyone checked everything disconnected everything except electric trail brake control was the source of drain .
I learn so much from you Thank you Also wtf ford ?? Fuses need to be accessible I've build several hot rods and race cars and understand the need of fuse banks. But come on put it where you can get to it even if you have to remove panels.
I wonder, if you could decode the CAN signals in a similar way like you can decode ethernet signals with WireShark. I would assume, that those data packages have an address information in them to show from which module it originates. If you find "malicious" datapackets in WireShark, it usually gets relatively easy to find the offending device in the network and eliminate it. (With an axe, probably)
Yes but you'd need good knowledge on each specific car. The packet Id can be anything it wants and without spending a bunch of time already, it's not really feasible
Yes, the Pico can do that. But you would need to suss out the address header yourself. They don't give out that info. But if you had this one and saw the headers, it would be easier to confirm the culprit next time, still need to get to that buried gateway module! Even looking at those on VW group cars where the you see the module address on the scan tool, the packets don't always start with those addresses
chased my tail on mkx with same symptoms. now if see network activity like this I go straight to telamatic and unplug it and draw is gone. I call it the big brother module.
Wow, telmatric unit gone bad. Well, that's great find to wade through the high speed network and low speed as well. Great job finding that offending unit! Will there be another video for conclusion of replacement? Awesome video. Ivan!
Great case study. Just wondering, won't the check engine light stay on now? What if it gets other faults later but driver doesn't know because light is always on? I was hoping you might try cracking the module open for a looksie
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ah, ok. I thought since it was storing a no-com code for that module, that it it would use the check engine light to indicate a stored code. Interesting that a body type module can fail without an indication to driver.
Rev up your engines! 30 + modules - holy crap how did we survive with points, no seat belt and 7 ash trays! Mfg's. need to update there software to report better on all these modules as 1 flaw on a network can take out the whole vehicle. Thanks again to Ivan for all these detailed videos..
luckily, Ivan had his "big fancy scan tool" and more importantly big fancy pico and even more importantly big fancy brain lol
@@rp5029 The first two are pretty useless without the last one!
One thing stands out when watching all diagnostics channels on TH-cam is that information is absolutely vital to attempt any wiring issues, second only to ability to use said info of course!! brilliant video as always
Oh thank God you posted the source of the problem tonight. I was already packing up my truck to drive to Pine Hollow from Alabama to find out what the heck was going on with this car! You saved me the trip. (even though it's winter time up there, and I have spent a bunch of wintry days in Western PA, servicing coal mining equipment...... way too cold for a southern boy)
Perhaps we’ve crossed paths at some time in the last 4.5 decades Johnnie? I’m still here here in Western Pa. , in coal mining equip. , shivering through yet another winter, asking “Why am I doing this?” 😂
@@brianw8963 Our little engineering company had electronics on Joy, Anderson Maver, Long Airdox, Eickhoff , Eimco Addington, and a couple others. Spent a lot of time in Consol mines, and also Emerald down in Waynesburg. Somehow, nothing ever broke in spring and fall, it was always winter.
Never have I seen a triple fuse. Not the only one from the comments. Learn something new everyday. The can wires seem to be a twisted pair ? The scope and the circuit diagram is a must along with a multimeter and an experienced brain box 📦. The length of time ⏲ taken to reduce the current is quite substantial taken all factors into account. The newer models are far more sensitive than previous ones and adaptability to different conditions is required. That being said this was a very successful 👏 👌 diagnosis and left the customer with a healthy battery prognosis and an opportunity to drive off into the sunset 🌇.
Twisted pair= differential signal - which reduces electrical noise, electromagnetic interference (EMI) , just like a mic cable in the analog world.
Retired auto tech here. I always hated parasitic drains especially in newer auto's. Awesome video Ivan. You have some great troubleshooting skills. Scope use in finding it was awesome. Gotta love all the modules,networks . Ii cant imagine in five years. What's next.
I will state that dealer techs probably would not fix this problem.Ivan you are at a higher level than most techs. top 5 percent.
But I don't even have an ASE certification xD
I’m a dealer tech, I would fix this. I even know how to use an ammeter.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics All you have is a 4-year engineering degree from Cornell University and you did your graduate work at Penn State. (I believe you have this in your bio.) You shouldn't even think of repairing this. I work with people every day that have that ASE certification and they washed-out as techs. Their wives must draw them a map to get to work. If a dealership could have repaired this, why do you have it? Great video!
Probably in the 12-15 percentile range
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I used to be ASE certified but it never made me any more money and I paid for testing because my employer wouldn't pay for it. Ultimately I left the industry and got into another field. Too many shops require the mechanic to pay for everything. Tools, scanners, and certifications. All while making chump change.
Perfect logical process of elimination, but as you said, you need the right equipment in order to do that. Another great video. Thank you for taking the time to do such detailed recording of your process.
Another amazing find/diagnosis. Yeah, no way a dealership would find this problem, too much time/labor/effort for them. Nice job!
Their fix would be to refer you to the sales department.
@@bcad4066 Sounds correct. lol
Friday at work I taught a young buck scientific method.and logic on a network for our school district. I had isolated to one bldg. The young just started ripping and tearing. I am watching my scope go nuts. I stopped him. Showed him how to do it logically. We found the problem in about an hour. A network is a network. Whether it's in a bldg or a car. Nice work my friend
Nice work, Ivan. As you mentioned so many of these modules are problematic and battery hogs. Ford seemed to address this on the new vehicles by shutting down the module at a certain battery voltage. I drive a '22 Transit 3500, with the My Ford app I get a notification that remote features are unavailable due to low voltage after sitting for 2-3 days...but at least it still starts well after a week of sitting. 👍👍
Ivan,
Great technique and approach to solving this problem. Thanks for taking us along!
Another vehicle saved from the auction block by PHAD. Well done Ivan!
It did have nice paint😉
I still remember how mind blowing voltage drop accross fuses for checking parasitic draws was. Still fascinated by thermal imaging. Watching network activity to determine a draw is new wave!
not in a million codzillion years could I have ever figured that out. what great intellect and reasoning skills Ivan. Just wow.....Pete
Just wow man. Talk about a strategic approach that solved a complex diagnosis. Ivan is the king folks. We are all witnesses.
Very good diagnostics testing! Glad to see it wasn't a necessary module!
Ford has one of the longest "timeout" for the vehicle to go to sleep. Even the Ford trucks we had at work took 40 to 45 minutes to shut down.
I found under 0.050 amps was acceptable.
That truly is the Lincoln that would drive someone to drinkin'. The Hot Rod Lincoln song was 60 years ahead of its time.
30+ modules, what seems like a pattern among these cars of parasitic draws, mutant 3 leg fuses that you can't get to, and oh, the wonderful timing chain driven water pumps. That car is a winner. Good job Ford.
"The Dead old Lincoln".
Ford use the exact same BCM on the newer Transit Custom vans.
Tucked away at an angle under the dash, you have to take quite a few trim parts off to get to them.
Really common for water ingress into them too and the angle they sit allows the water to pool rather than drain out.
The common symptoms set is rear sliding door open, horn stuck on (eventually times out and sets a button stuck code), parking brake on warning and the hazard lights come on when removing the key.
Another genius diagnostic. Ford does it again.
Hi Ivan
As always you are sharp, spot on 😉
2 years ago I have bought a Mazda CX30 and at Xmas time I haven't drowed the car, between Christmas and new year, it was totally flat for power, still garanty on car, hook up some jump power, and went to OE, they had a TSB on this from Japan,
SW update, because one or two of the ECU would not go to sleep.
After that SW update it worked again.
Nice job Ivan. You certainly take on the tough ones. I had a Chrysler with a couple of modules that were pulling down the battery. I disconnected and removed them. Last I knew they were still lying in the bottom of the trunk! Thanks for Sharing!
U did such a good job no bonus footage was required !
😅👍
I've really enjoyed all your videos very informative. I like that you always do the jobs right.
I would not have guessed a telematic unit would draw that much current. But that's why you are so good!
It's not necessarily the telematics unit taking the current but the other modules that are woken up by the telematics module.
Pretty cool and efficient diagnosis. I expected it to be a PIA and to turn into a 4 part series lol!
I learned from the first Lincoln 😉
Most efficient parasitic draw find method I have seen on a modern vehicle! I definitely will adopt this strategy myself! Thanks for that🙂
All things being the same, the only method that could beat it is an infrared camera. But, in this case, with the location of that unit, that would not have worked here.
This method is way more entertaining and educational every time anyway!😂
ASE certificate also comes with experience means you have to be studying and practicing to get it but in your case ivan you already have mountain of experience no need to get that paper to prove that you are a experienced and a great auto tech.great thing about your way of working is you dont just work for get your per hour fee.you work to get the job done make customer happy with less weight on his pocket.anyways great job once again.cheers
Fantastic video showing how to prioritize the steps in the diagnosis of this problem. What you call neat and cool other techs dread having to deal with especially dealer techs if the car is under warranty because their not paid more than .5 to diagnose. At least that what it was when I was a dealer tech back in the 80’s.
Well done Ivan! Your thought process is always impressive. Thank you for sharing!
On my 2010 Taurus, I caught a parasitic draw with the exact same behavior as this. My theory was that something was constantly waking up and going to sleep, but I thought it would be impossible to figure it out since my DMMs shut off after extended inactivity.
I don't drive this car a lot, but for over a year I've been relegated to having to start it up once a week just to stave off the dead battery. Before I didn't know how much funny business these modules get into, but I definitely know where to turn my focus too now.
GM wants On Star to remain ON for an extended period of time after shut down. Because in the event of a wreck or any kind of emergency they want On Star to continue to be available for sending emergency info. Since our radio handles a portion of the On Star feature we had to stay fully powered up for 5 minutes after car OFF. And also the radio had to work down to about 6V battery in case of stranded in a remote area and needing to call for help on On Star after being stranded for 5 days.
It was difficult for lab bench testing because after sending signal to shutdown it would stay powered for at least 5 minutes so software dept had to create special firmware that allowed a full shutdown in a few seconds instead of such a long wait. And trying to get software to do anything for the engineering department was harder than pulling teeth.
Great! Ivan solves the problem by unplugging a lunatics module. Excellent.
Oh man a diag like this would’ve shut me down for a week! 😩 Thanks a lot for sharing Ivan!
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. I have EXACTLY the car you diagnose--a 2016 MKX--and it is actually red. And, I am from State College. Amazing. As it turns out, I have the same problem. Had a new battery installed in September (routine as it was 5 years old) and six weeks ago the car is dead in the morning. I put the charger on it (maybe I left a light on?) and restarted it. A week later the same thing. So I take it to the dealer--I am out of town for 10 days, told them to fix it--and they put in a new battery under warranty. Then i drive to our house in Florida and yesterday morning the battery is dead again...I take it to the Lincoln dealer and of course they have no clue. But thanks to Ivan I know the problem. And, now i know who to call when i am back north!
That's awesome Keith!
Actually, I had a 1974 Ford Maverick that had the fuse panel attached to the firewall next to the steering column. I had to lay on my back to access it. Then in 1976, they did away with the hand-operated emergency brake and went to a foot operated one. Where the handle was for the emergency brake on the later models they mounted the fuse panel. Then all you had to do was remove a cover. Why couldn't they have done this 2 years earlier? LOL. Great video!
I don't know how anyone could troubleshoot anything like this without a scope.... Outstanding job, Ivan!
Yup might as well wear a blindfold lol
Thank you very much for teaching and sharing
I have a Lincoln with a battery drain also. Thanks to the video I found the problem in the first place I looked. Saved hours of checking. Great videos.
What was the issue on your car?
Please I want to know what was ’he issues too
@@jackadam9480 I have a MKZ with a battery drain problem. I unplugged the telematics. Fixed the drain with no other troubles for the past year. Never used the telematics features anyway.
Thank you for your video! I was having the same problem. My 2016 mkx would be dead as a door nail after only a few days, with a new battery! I went to disconnect the telematics module but before I did, I put my Amazon-priced scanner on the car and queried the module. No trouble codes, but the scanner reported the internal temp. of the thing was 98 degrees! The car had been sitting in a 60 degree F garage for at least 6 hours with the doors locked and everything off. No wonder they locate this thing below a vent grill. I disconnected it and stuck a note on it explaining the reason why, and I haven’t had a dead battery since.
That has got to be the stupidest most irresponsible damn place to put a fuse box how the heck do they expect you to get to it under the airbag and have it explode on you that's just dumb thank you for the video can I believe the amount of modules on that vehicle unbelievable man love it
This is where all the time spent on the previous cars pays off nicely!! Well done and quick! You may not always get paid for your time, but the experience you get for that time is priceless. All the people who want to get paid for every minute spent and refuse to do work unless they get paid will never get to this level of quick troubleshooting and of course the personal satisfaction of nailing down a problem right away.
I want to see the fix. Hope there is a part 3. Would be interesting to see what Ford/Lincoln has as for a bulletin on this one. Something is causing that module to cycle and wake up. Just unplugging a module isn’t fixing a problem. The car might have a cellular/wifi activity problem that may only need a software update. Common in new cars that have those telematics modules.
I forgot what model years, but the telemetrics modules were 3g and when that was being phased out, they would be useless. I think FOMOCO offered an updated version but my memory does not serve me well.
Look up Ford satisfaction program 21B09.
@@Joetechlincolns thanks for the info link. Rather informative.
I think unplugging a useless telematics module is good enough to call it a fix. I can imagine in the future cars will be full of raspberry PIs to emulate modules that can no longer connect to the internet.
@@MTLeopold it really isn’t good enough of a fix to just unplug a module. If your windshield wipers are stuck on, you’re not going to just pull the fuse, right? This is the same. Someone in the comments put a link to the bulletin on that module and vehicles affected. To figure out why something failed, is what makes things better in the future. Preventative maintenance. Example is when Ivan broke down that CVT transmission to figure out what caused it to fail.
Great video. Thank you. Needless to say my skepticism towards ford never products rose up( one of my cars is f150 and so far I was spared of electric issues)
Amazing how one stupid magic box can cause all these headaches! With batteries at or near $200 now, it's not only inconvenient but SUPER expensive, too! This is the first time I've seen that odd triple fuse! Automakers love changing crap for no reason. Throws a wrench into repairs. I was just getting used to J-case fuses! It never ends. Anyway, great diagnostics as always, Ivan! 👍👍
Great module chase, Ivan! I was aiming for the DSP, once you mentioned a hiss in the speaker, but it was the damn telematics module 🙂 Whatever, well done!
Another interesting issue and repair. Link other viewers, this is the first time I have seen a triple fuse!
I’m in Australia and have a Ford Endura, it’s actually a Ford Edge from you guys. (Toyota had the Edge naming rights over here) It has triple fuses and I’m half a century old and never seen them before.
@@michaelslee4336 I have about 8 to 10 years on you and have never come across these either. (Of course I am not a mechanic so maybe if I was, these would have been a common site) Hi from Canada!
@@unclemarksdiyauto
Proudly made in Oakville, Ontario. Cheers.
You touch one fuse and everything changes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣From one auto spark to another well done m8 that was the funnyest thing ive heard in a long while , you sound like a mechanic telling a customer he needs an auto electrician 👍👍👍👍👍 Fantastic as always Ivan keep up the good work m8 ....
Good one Ivan. 👏 Knew that it was gonna be telematics. Cars are like cell phones now. Very similar to battery drain from misbehaving apps that won't sleep. I see ford hasn't improved their wiring solutions since the 90's either. What a rat's nest.
Awesome case study Ivan! I didnt even know there was a triple fuse, huh!!
Well done Ivan! Some having all the bells and whistles isn't a good thing. I know I wouldn't care if big brother was watching my MKZ. Thanks again.
Hi Ivan, cracked it once again, well done. Many thanks for the uploads.
This part was my first assumption!! Ford used these on their C-Max Hybrid plug-ins and they were notorious for not shutting off draining the 12v battery.
Super job! Keep communication modules in deep distrust. To communicate up in the gigahertz range, you need power transistors with microscopic junctions-- invisible and very fragile components. Distrust!
Great job! Too much crap in these new vehicles! 30 modules, we don't need this in our vehicles in my opinion!!
Awesome diag! I've never thought about using a scope!
Scotty would be proud..Great video..
Nice work Ivan! I probably would have written a little note on the module just in case someone goes looking someday but it's all good.
Really like your vintage Honda poster! I remember those from when I was a kid.
Ivan, just a FYI to the right of the stereo screen if there is a 360 deg. rear camera button, the vehicle has the optional
technology pkg. On bottom left of steering wheel if there is a button with two arrows facing eachother and 2 arrows
facing away from eachother, that is the drivers assistance optional pkg.
Important information sir
Ok. Take the unit out and open it up just to see if you can see the problem! The unit is bad and she doesn't need it so she might let you pull it and take a look! Thanks for the video.
It's a software or firmware issue... Nothing to see inside 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thanks,it would have interesting
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics As someone else mentioned, the issue could be that the mobile data network it uses is no longer in service. Maybe part of the widespread discontinuation of 3G services, for example. That 1 minute 40 secs is conspicuously 100 secs, just the sort of round number that a programmer might choose as the interval for retrying the connection. Someone elsewhere in the comments mentioned a related service bulletin and available upgrade.
Awesome job Ivan!
Ivan, if you remove the hush panel, the fusebox will hinge down for access.
Did you pick that module first because of the speaker static ? Or a little SWAG luck. I agree scope helped immensely . We used analog scope in 80’s at Saab dealer. No storage or freeze but was a good start. We worn out half a dozen of the old b/w vantage meters. Best tool ever. I’m glad to be on the sideline now watching your logical steps to a cure ‼️
Del.
I too share the side line for 8 yrs now, because of you I can't let go.your videos are addictive to
Me. And ur logic is beyond compare. Another really nice job. Frank
Nice video and great troubleshooting of the networks.
Think that fuse panel is bad to get to, try a 2020 Ford Transit. FYI, the 3 prong fuses are called ATL fuses. Also, for you Ivan, the DACM-C is the Digital Audio Control Module. For advanced premium audio staging and processing for listening positions in the car, like separate audio options for rear seat entertainment, or the illusion of a center stage for the driver or passenger for real life studio feel.
And why oh why would anyone need that in a car?
@@joes2085 audiophiles, like myself. Audio engineers who enjoy sound quality and travel anywhere from 1 hour up to 27 hours on the road.
I realize now that I am missing out!
Yep, these ain't your daddy's 6x9's in the back of the pickup floorboard.
no wonder old used cars and trucks are so hard to find , every body is keeping them , there so easy to work on .
Ivan is awesome! One smart guy 👍👍👍👍👍
Triple fuse, I had to actually look this up since I never seen one before!
Another great video I had so much fun watching it .
Does the pico have a CAN decoder to tell the ID number of the problem module?
Finding the associated number in the service information may be a different story.
Nice fix Ivan! I wonder how many modules you can have unplugged and still have the car operate for what they’re made for.
LOL good question! I like cars that have only one module: the engine computer ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics With possibly the exception of the Rogue, I would say all of your cars have only an engine computer. (Mystique, XL-7, MPV)
Nice job man. Top notch skills!
Awesome find Ivan!
Thanks bud! Not only did you give me some new ideas for IOD testing, but you helped me get this MKX back to the customer faster than I would have otherwise worked through it. A double decker BJB and the BCM mounted by Satan himself. WTaF?
Had to Google TCU. Info from one article: The TCU collects telemetry data from the vehicle, such as position, speed, engine data, connectivity quality etc through interfacing with various sub-systems over data and control busses in the vehicle. It may also provide in-vehicle connectivity via Wifi and Bluetooth and implements the eCall function on applicable markets. The Wifi and Bluetooth functions could be an issue if they are now disabled.
I Googled the part;
What is Telematics Control Unit Ford?
Telematics control unit (TCU) is the embedded onboard system that controls wireless tracking, diagnostics and communication to and from the vehicle. These systems can be used in eCall crash notification, electronic tolling and vehicle tracking, among many others.
Does the owner use these systems?
I was waiting for you to say start your engines when you crawled into the trunck lol
Is this in the same place for the MKC? I had a speaker buzz like yours did a bit back, then car wouldn’t start and I ran a test and swapped the battery, after swapping the battery the audio system wouldn’t turn on (didn’t think much of it), and then now this morning my car won’t start again and I’m charging up the battery. I’m convinced it’s rooted in the same issue since the circuit you were talking about was all of the audio stuff.
So the car was going sleep and having nightmares! 🤣🤣🤣
Nice Work as always Ivan.👍 Gotta wonder if You ever have diagrammatic nightmares!?
Lol rarely
when u reinstalled fuse the single fuse did u turn off ignition key then turn back on ? it seems strange a blown fuse keep lights on ? excellant video i wonder what the dealer would done with this one had he taken to one
Well done sir.
I wonder if that fuse panel is made to slide out since you said it's listed as "behind the kick plate." 🤔
Oh well, you got it as usual, Ivan!
The one on my 96 Mercury actually flips down for easy accessibility 😁
I wonder with all the troubles I'm hearing about Ford if those "services" like MyLincoln might be being abandoned, but with modules programmed to become increasingly frantic to phone home. It's not uncommon when server connected IOT are abandoned by the company.
It’s not being abandoned and unplugging that module or it’s equivalent on a vehicle equipped with sync 4 would probably cause problems. Sync 4 automatically updates Sync, Maps, and module programming in addition to remote access services and notifying operators of trouble conditions.
I think it is exactly what we see here.
I've never seen a triple fuse!
New to me also.
double fuse 3 legs
Stupid idea, seen on ford products maybe others
@@keltecshooter just saving a bit of space and $
I didn't believe my eyes when he held it up. 😆
I thought most of these telematic systems shut down after a few years. I assume they are for updates and GPS locators that only work until the warranty runs out.
I wonder if that module is hating the 3G and 2G shutdown and crashes when it can't find any service and it maybe can't handle 5G cells. Car modules have something called watchdog, basically a automatic reset button if something goes wrong. If the software crashes they will reset and try again rather than locking up. I would guess there is an update for this module that fixes the behavior.
thanks ivan for the great video
I told you it was trying to update its Netflix subscription! 😀
Have a Chevy Silverado 3500 . Drain on battery took a few days to go dead.
Everyone checked everything disconnected everything except electric trail brake control was the source of drain .
Excellent. Why you don't have more subs I do not know. Maybe too much thinking involved for most people🤨
I learn so much from you
Thank you
Also wtf ford ?? Fuses need to be accessible I've build several hot rods and race cars and understand the need of fuse banks.
But come on put it where you can get to it even if you have to remove panels.
Hi Ivan, amazing Job!
Where can I find the telematic control unit on a 2012 MKZ hybrid. I have tried to find it and no luck.
I find this fascinating quick question… Could u not use a heat sensing camera and scan the fuses for a warm fuse
Not necessarily for networked modules. A faulty module can be waking up healthy ones and end up chasing a false positive.
@@SerenoOunce exactly right 👍
I wonder, if you could decode the CAN signals in a similar way like you can decode ethernet signals with WireShark. I would assume, that those data packages have an address information in them to show from which module it originates. If you find "malicious" datapackets in WireShark, it usually gets relatively easy to find the offending device in the network and eliminate it. (With an axe, probably)
Interesting approach!
Yes but you'd need good knowledge on each specific car. The packet Id can be anything it wants and without spending a bunch of time already, it's not really feasible
Yes, the Pico can do that.
But you would need to suss out the address header yourself.
They don't give out that info.
But if you had this one and saw the headers, it would be easier to confirm the culprit next time, still need to get to that buried gateway module!
Even looking at those on VW group cars where the you see the module address on the scan tool, the packets don't always start with those addresses
One thing I missed in all this. What did that module control? What do you lose by disconnecting it. I have a 2017 with a drain on it. Thanks
chased my tail on mkx with same symptoms. now if see network activity like this I go straight to telamatic and unplug it and draw is gone. I call it the big brother module.
Wow, telmatric unit gone bad. Well, that's great find to wade through the high speed network and low speed as well. Great job finding that offending unit! Will there be another video for conclusion of replacement? Awesome video. Ivan!
Great case study. Just wondering, won't the check engine light stay on now? What if it gets other faults later but driver doesn't know because light is always on? I was hoping you might try cracking the module open for a looksie
Has nothing to do with the engine 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ah, ok. I thought since it was storing a no-com code for that module, that it it would use the check engine light to indicate a stored code. Interesting that a body type module can fail without an indication to driver.
Will this affect the navigation system ?
So, what ferzackerly does the telematic control module do for the car ? I’m confused !