The box you were messing with is an aftermarket steering wheel control module. It converts the cars data signal into data the radio understands to control the radio. To confirm the module is the problem, you have to hit the controls on the steering wheel and see if they control the radio. If they don’t, the unit isn’t programmed and will continue to have this draw until programmed because it will continue to loop for connectivity. I prefer IDataLink Maestro, or on a budget, Axxess modules. When the car died, for whatever reason the first time, it could have reset the module. Depending on that units programming feature, it could be stuck in loop from loss of accessory and constant. By the way, radio uses Accessory, not Ignition for the DIY people. Your radio should shut off during engine crank cycle unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer. Great T-Shoot though Ivan. Just something for your aftermarket documents books.
I'm a maintenance technician at a huge glass/solar glass coating facility, have to have excellent troubleshooting skills on my job, thats why i love your videos, all about the troubleshooting.
You are one excellent tech. The sherlock holmes of milli amp leaks no doubt. Prime is the gratitude in driving a 98 truck with no electrical failure issues cause it's so low tech. My engine even faces forward!
Always love these parasitic draw cases. Great thought process, leading to the final diagnosis. Lots of interesting cases with some module not letting the bus / network go to sleep.
As soon as I saw the Scosche logo on that box, I knew it was going to be the problem XD. Sweet diag, never came across a radio converter with that behavior before! Tell the customer to go with Idatastart and idatalink for radio to vehicle adapters. Best in the industry if they have that issue again.
Hello Ivan good video. Once again demonstrating that in today's electronic world, if you do not have a good grounding in electronics and several thousands of dollars of diagnostic equipment, the chances of tracking down the actual bad component is doubtful. Keep up the good work and teaching us old timers where and what to look for in the more modern electronically controlled vehicles.
Ivan, I don't think your diagnosis is complete until you take that sweet ride out for a test drive just to make sure all of the air is flowing correctly through the passenger compartment. Great job explaining in detail the process you went through tracing this draw problem through to the problem in the little black box. Thanks for Sharing!
Recently I’ve been using a thermal camera to find parasitic draw issues. You can see what’s staying hot after leaving it off for a while. It’s refreshing to see someone performing proper diag👍
These aftermarket items can be a real pain when diagnosing these problems. If you find a charger plugged in to the power port but no phone or other device at the end, unplug that charger. They draw power even without the device to be charged. Good work Ivan.
Thanks BestBuy and Pioneer for costing this customer at least a diagnostic fee and whatever else. Early on in the video I was yelling in my head "aftermarket radio". But I understand the diag that you did
I had one of these jeeps in the shop a couple of months ago with an aftermarket can bus adapter for the radio causing a draw as well. Those things seem to fail all of the time and it was the same exact box that was in the keep you’re working on. I’d rather just change the cigarette lighter to accessory power only and get the ignition on power for the radio from there eliminating that stupid adapter that is a common failure point. I don’t like adding any sort of additional components that increase the chance of a failure. Chryslers have enough battery draw issues without adding the possibility of another one. 😂
For parasitic draw tests using the mV measurement across fuse technique, I would recommend a higher resolution DMM like the Fluke 287, which has a resolution of 0.001 mV on the 50.000 mV range. This is a meter I originally purchased for my general purpose electronic test bench, but I have been using it for auto electrical troubleshooting because of the excellent features. One being the high resolution on the 50.000 mV range which is perfect for across fuse parasitic current draw measurement. Another nice feature is the relative Ohms to null out lead resistance. It should be noted that if you disconnect the battery (power down) to make a series parasitic current measurement without maintaining continuity the parasitic draw may go away never to return. Also, if you disconnect power, you will have to wait until the vehicle is asleep again before troubleshooting parasitic draw. With a test lead technique you can maintain vehicle power while you introduce the ammeter (make before break). However, the biggest risk to using a series ammeter on a low scale is the parasitic draw testing my require going key on, then key off, which in this case, the vehicle can draw several amps which could blow the fuse in the meter on the low current range (440mA fuse on the 400mA range for example). So for key on you have to use the higher amp scale which is usually protected with a 10A fuse. If you pull a fuse box fuse to see if the parasitic draw goes away, when you reinstall the fuse you may have to wait for modules to go to sleep to continue troubleshooting, which can take up to 35 minutes. An alternate approach, which requires getting to the wire feeds from the fuse box, is to use a sensitive DC current clamp meter like the B&K 316 (Good resolution and small jaws) to measure individual circuit current draw rather than pull a fuse. This way you do not have to wait for the modules to go to sleep. So my approach is to measure wire currents and not disconnect power until I have narrowed down the problem to its source, then I will disconnect power. My approach to parasitic draw tests is to first measure the magnitude of the parasitic draw with a clamp meter if possible. If the draw is high like in the video, 800mA (which is enough for fuse mV testing) I would then put the vehicle on life support using a current limited DC linear PS with a reverse current protection diode. This set up is to put a slight charge on the battery (which is usually in bad shape because of the no crank), keep a regulated reference voltage on the vehicle like 13V (this is handy in measuring voltage drops relative to a known set supply voltage), and allow lengthy troubleshooting without the battery going dead. Some difficult parasitic draw problems can take hours to troubleshoot, and if you charge while troubleshooting you can prep the vehicle faster. I should mention that the "life-support" method is the only real easy method to charge the battery from the under hood jump start posts when the battery is buried in the trunk or under a seat. I have a huge silicon power diode which was originally designed (about 10 years ago with spare parts, I would like to upgrade to SiC diodes in parallel with no fan) for 20 Amp continuous so it has its own 120VAC temperature controlled cooling fan on a heatsink. The reverse current blocking DC power supply is very handy because it is working with the battery in case a large load, like a cooling fan is energized, the battery supplies the momentary surge current and the linear supply steady state current.
Another case of the dreaded battery drain. Cast your bets: Heads, it's an infotainment unit, tails, it's an aftermarket gizmo. Today's winner: an aftermarket infotainment unit! Everyone's a winner!
Hi Ivan, My sister had a 2001 Grand Cherokee bought used with one year warranty. The transmission failed and they replaced it with one that had similar mileage. It developed a high battery drain of almost 1.5A after the replacement that would drain the battery in a couple of days. It was one of the circuits on a 50A maxi fuse, but could not find the cause. I installed one of those wireless battery cutoff switches to save the battery. It worked fine until one day the right rear trailing arm broke from the chassis due to extreme rust. Was not repairable. My sister sold it for scrap. Stay safe.
Can you imagine having taken the Jeep back to Best Buy with "my battery goes dead now that the radio was installed" and having them do this diagnosis? Maybe they would find the issue but my guess is all they would do is a visual. As tedious as it is with these parasitic draws, finding and then fix, I find them interesting but not all vehicles have the easy access as this Wrangler does. I can imagine a fully loaded mini van or a Ford Platinum series vehicle being a really involved job in getting to the modules they are filled with plus the routing of the wiring etc.
Classic Pioner CAN Dongle. Had a different model and different Can box model. I have made a comment in the past about that issue. Made the BCM go bananas and even stalled the engine. Nissan X-trail/Rogue 2.0 Diesel Automatic
I have a Fiat Stilo (european version) and it also uses the CAN signals to wake up the radio. There is no ignition power feed. However the radio functions autonomically of the rest of the vehicle, at least for some part. You can turn it on when the car is off and key is out of the ignition, it will display "20 minutes mode" which means it will shut down automatically in 20 minutes. Of course the radio wakes up the interior CAN, making the cluster go awake for a brief moment - the backlight for the display turn on for few seconds and it shows the time and mileage (same thing happens when you open or shut a door). You can choose in the settings whether the radio should be turned on and off automatically with ignition on/off or should you do that manually if you want. The guy who owned the vehicle before me had an aftermarket radio in there and I found he connected into one of the wires behind the dash with ignition power. Wonder if that Pioneer could be connected in a similiar way, making the ignition power or accessory power wake it up straight away. Then you wouldn't need that magic box at all.
When I had a PT Cruiser I just wired my aftermarket radio's ignition sense wire to the power window switch. On my radio it was just a sense wire and didn't draw any amperage. I always heard those adapter modules crap out after a couple years.
Truly interesting diagnosis, that may help me some day. I switched the radio in my 2010 Chevy HHR Panel Van, and it turns out the clicking noise for the turn signal actually came from the stock radio's left speaker. Thankfully, the site from which I purchased the radio suggested a converter box with a built-in speaker that intercepts the signal (CAN bus?) commanding the click and makes the sound based on turn signal operation! In addition, it energizes a relay to power the aftermarket radio. I don't know about other cars, but the Chevy radio stored the VIN number of the car and allowed it to turn on when it got matching data from the bus. The module I bought with the radio programs itself on first power-up to get around the VIN number crap and make it work in my car. Man, I HATE this kind of complexity! What Chevy wants is to charge you big bucks to program the VIN into an OEM radio. I am SO thankful I could find a module to get around that business, and I just hope I have the smarts to troubleshoot it if the module fails. Then, I hope I'm smart enough and lucky enough to find and buy another compatible replacement!
it seems to usually be an add on,, a remote start, a vehicle tracking device, an aftermarket radio or amp.. these newer vehicles dont like non factory items installed on them.
As you discovered, the factory radio is the sound card in ComputerCars. The VIN matching was intended to be an anti-theft feature. A stolen radio wouldn't work in a new car. (But then a junkyard radio wouldn't work either). It's not hard to open the radio and reprogram the device that stores the VIN. If blanked out, the radio will do the same thing - learn from the car on first power up. I learned all this by putting a 2015 factory radio into my 2013 car so I can get "bendy" lines on the backup camera.
@@russellhltn1396 Yeah it's stored on a little 8-pin eprom usually and with the correct software and adapter you can easily write whatever Vin you want to it with a computer and resolder it to the board.
What I did was run both radio wires to ignition source and eliminate the constant 12v but the radio won't have any memory but the battery will stay alive.
Just like Eric and Ivan, I *hate* aftermarket shit. I just had a Town and Country with intermittent turn signals. Turns out the receiver for the aftermarket remote start was physically resting on the blinker relay and causing poor connectivity at one of the pins.
The dude/ette who created the 'angry jeep' headlight thing... they must be living on a beach in Rio de Janeiro by now. It's rare to see a Jeep that doesn't have one up here in NH. Another fun video to watch btw. Thank you.
Nice work! Interesting radio setup... I figured something goofy was going on when you had the key out initially and that radio was still alive. Interesting how it's now the can bus on some vehicles now waking up the radio instead of a dedicated wire. Definitely the trend of the industry.... Eliminate wires where possible and add yet another module to handle it! 😆
In my 2013, the radio will stay on until the door is opened, or 10 minutes has passed. The fact this Jeep has had it's door removed makes me wonder if that is part of the problem. The device is waiting for something that never happens.
Nicely done. I was thinking just do away with the stupid box and wire the radio power directly but as pointed out in the comments the box allows the steering wheel controls to function. It unfortunate that the engineers for vehicles are running everything on a can bus when any module can screw you up good. Also I learned a few things from your diagnostics. Great video.
I was lucky enough to find a Chinese aftermarket stereo with the steering controls built in - no hokey pokey converter needed like all the major brand named stereos seemed to.
I'm dealing with a power draw issue for the first time now and this was very helpful to watch. Seems the issue is only coming from my m13 and j13 iod fuses. Hopefully I can find the issue soon.
@@EdBlack- Never found it. It got slightly better though. But I just remove the battery cable if I don't plan on driving for any longer than three days.
I got confused when you said radio. So I googled it. Interesting. Why would such an ancient device be in this vehicle I wondered. Then I pondered the doors? and immediately thought of some circus ride and their "safety" bars, which you soon realize don't make you feel safe at all when you're at the top. And then you start contemplating how you will die and whether it will be really painful.
It’s a good video for content. As I started watching snd not just listening... it really looked like a B movie western where they voice over English over the original language it was filmed in. Very... entertaining! Now....I’m looking forward to the diag on the video as bonus footage to the complicated current draw diag. Funny!!!🤣
I have the perfect case study for you! 2003 Chevy venture 3.4 The internet is filled with this vehicles fast idle problem. No one has a fix for it, yes the parts "double" barrel cannon is fired at it. I have a 89 year old friend that can't let go of it because his now deceased wife and him went around the country in it. Anyway if you have a chance to work on one please do. People all aroun the country come to you for good reason, who knows it may be a no parts required fix😆
I try to avoid these magic CAN boxes. Most of the time, there is a place to get the accessories terminal from somewhere (brake light switch often works). Otherwise terminal 15 can always be found somewhere. Pulling a wire is much more reliable than those CAN boxes.
My guess 1/2 way is the dimmer on dash is connected to radio and the amp and radio have power in common and the dimmer is keep them alive and not asleep…
When I saw the comments about lip synch, I didn't think I noticed anything odd, but I normally view these diag videos at 1.75X speed, (usually still comprehensible and gets to the point quicker😁) slowed it back down to 1.0, and, yeah something doesn't mesh.
Depending on the channel, I do 1.6x to 1.8x. "Video Speed Controller" for Chrome is a wonderful plugin. (Works on most Chromium-based browsers like Edge or Brave.)
I usually use my infrared camera and do a walk around of the car and the components fuse boxes ect ect..( mainly with European cars that have tons of control modules. .. I leave car inside shops for about an hour or 2 before I do the walk around.. Has not failed me yet to locate where there is excessive heat within the vehicle.. I also do exactly as your doing but sometimes you cannot catch the draw when it is sporadically draw a couple of amps for several seconds then goes back to normal... ( that's when the scope comes out ) lol Great video if you ever need a hand cloning modules I can help out im close to Philadelphia...
I'd be concerned the camera would tell you who is drawing the power, but not necessarily who is keeping it awake. I'd expect the culprit to be warm, but may not be "as warm".
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I have for Automotive a Flir E6 Thermal Camera and Snap On Thermal Camera.. The Flir works alot better it has higher resolution.. I also do microsoldering and have a microscope Link Seek Thermal Camera and several others when looking for shorts within control module and other electronics ( iphones, and other mobile electronics)
@@russellhltn1396 you would be surprised how much time is saved when using a Thermal camera... Alot of times it will be dum things that kill battery.. like a rain sensor on windsheild or a rear view mirror that does not affects communication by keeping the bus active...
@@Autokey_Security_Services I'm sure it's a major help. If nothing else to eliminate innocent bystanders, just not an infallible "find the hottest thing".
Awesome diagnostic Ivan! Your process of elimination lead you directly to the problem. But does not answer the cause. This video is a prime example on how aftermarket audio systems sometimes won't play nice with the vehicles networking systems. And in this case, I suspect that since the Jeep's door switches have been eliminated, that's why the radio won't turn off. A lot of newer vehicles have a feature that will keep the radio on, even after you turn off the ignition and remove the key. The radio will finally turn off "after you open the door". But since the door switches are removed, this problem will most likely continue until that feature is by-passed.
that is how my 2017 grand caravan works.. not sure what the reasoning behind it is.. maybe to finish listening to the song playing without having the van running or in accessory mode? Or if u had someone waiting in the van, you could leave them in there without leaving the keys? they would have to let you get out first, then after you shut your door, turn off the engine, then hand you the keys thru a open window,.? i have always wondered abt this.
Same with my 2013 GM. It's actually a nice feature if you're turning off the car but staying inside, such as waiting for someone. Mine will time out after 10 minutes, but it's possible the module itself stays awake until the door opens.
@@randy1ization I believe that is exactly the reason for it. Either to listen to the remainder of a great song playing on the radio, wrap up a phone conversation or even roll up the windows, without having to leave the engine idle needlessly.
How does that make things better? You still can’t start the vehicle as most circuits are over the meter’s 10 amp fuse limit. And then you still will have to go back to the battery to verify the entire system is repaired before releasing the vehicle?
nice video had a question i have a 2015 jk looking for a bi directional scan tool that works with Chrysler/jeep i use Autel ms906 but has very little functions for that year jeep. i know you have used a few scan tools over the years and have a good idea what tools have good test functions for that year jeep. thanks !
The lack of a door switch bothers me. I'm wondering if the "magic box" is waiting for the door to cycle - but of course, it never does. Does this Jeep not have any door switch at all, or has it been removed with the factory doors?
Ivan, I’ll bet the issue with the Jeep are the door switches. Those nice new doors don’t activate the door switch. In Dodge/Ram/Jeep vehicles, the radio stays on until you open the door. I believe there’s a setting in the original radio for the time delay length but that is gone with the old UConnect radio. Do the interior lights come on or did they remove the bulbs?
Most vehicles, 50mA or less is perfectly acceptable. Some vehicles will have 100mA of parasitic draw which is "normal" off the lot. You would need to check service info for the acceptable parasitic draw. Some will be under 10mA but others can be much higher. You can really chase your tail on some vehicles for a problem that doesn't exist.
So new cars aren't designed to be parked for a month? That's poor design if you ask me. Maybe the battery manufacturers lobbied the auto manufacturers to build in bigger parasitic draws haha! Please let me know which cars have 100mA draw off the lot :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics It was about 5 years ago when I encountered a couple. I want to say one of them was a Chrysler or maybe GM vehicle. If I remember I'll post the vehicle. I wouldn't say new vehicles are not designed to last a month but I would agree it is a little ridiculous. Most new and older vehicles are under 50mA.
@@pharezknights5467 What do you mean 180mah max? The general rule of thumb is under 50mA. If your suspecting an issue, look in service info for acceptable parasitic drain values so you are not chasing a ghost. Now obviously 800mA is a big issue so no need to look up service info for that. But let say you think you found the problem and it dropped to 95mA or 70mA and wouldn't go lower, well this could be the acceptable parasitic drain for that car.
I noticed that the audio sync looks good on your outro. So it's only the first part of the video that's really a problem. (at least that I noticed, because you can't really tell when the camera is pointing away from your face.)
So was the radio/amp backfeeding power into the can keeping it powered? maybe the radio black box was not compatible with a vehicle with a can system? or maybe its chinese junk no worky right?
I thought i was watching a dubbed film, Bruce ivan as " Enter the wagon" Hmm after market junk and they didn't even put a relay in the power to the radio, how dare they lol :-D
Ivan isn't happy unless he breaks out his Pico :) NIce job! Trying to buy one but boy do they think HIGHLY of their products. Any suggestions when buying one?
Hi I bought my son a 2009 Jeep Jk sport with a factory Am/FM radio. I upgraded to the jeep factory Sirius touch screen radio and now battery is dies over night. New battery ,going to check fuses tonight. Any suggestions?
I hate these "smart" controls on things that don't need to be on the network. I personally believe in the old Keep It Simple Stupid motto and adding network communication to things like the radio is just stupid.
I think it gets it's power from the factory connector. At least for my GM, there is no "accessory" power at the radio. It gets power full time and it's controlled by the CANBUS. Welcome to ComputerCar(tm) - the data center on wheels.
When it is -15F outside and you have to park on the road, that is why. Start it 15min before you go outside and its nice and warm and the windows are thawed.
I have a 2017 wrangler with a parasitic draw. I have an aftermarket radio/sub woofers. I unplugged the AMP Fuse controlling the radio to see if my battery would drain over the course of a week. It did - jeep would'nt start after about a week and a half. Could the converter box behind my radio still be drawing amps even though I took the fuse out??
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeah....not really. You mentioned it but you didn't explain anything. The only thing you can see are like 500 clamps on the positive terminal coming from different meters 🤷🏾♂️
I don’t know about you Ivan but suspect number one should’ve been that - stereo as I would call it or that remote start system typically wiring problems or just or just junk
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Is it me, or does your video have an audio sync problem?
Yup
Might be because it was "just" uploaded...
Thank you for pointing this out! Working with the video editor to fix this glitch...
I was just about to make the same comment.
Last video had same issues too
The box you were messing with is an aftermarket steering wheel control module. It converts the cars data signal into data the radio understands to control the radio. To confirm the module is the problem, you have to hit the controls on the steering wheel and see if they control the radio. If they don’t, the unit isn’t programmed and will continue to have this draw until programmed because it will continue to loop for connectivity. I prefer IDataLink Maestro, or on a budget, Axxess modules. When the car died, for whatever reason the first time, it could have reset the module. Depending on that units programming feature, it could be stuck in loop from loss of accessory and constant. By the way, radio uses Accessory, not Ignition for the DIY people. Your radio should shut off during engine crank cycle unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer. Great T-Shoot though Ivan. Just something for your aftermarket documents books.
I'm a maintenance technician at a huge glass/solar glass coating facility, have to have excellent troubleshooting skills on my job, thats why i love your videos, all about the troubleshooting.
Big Ivan! You are on it! You produce some of the best videos on TH-cam! We appreciate the hard work it takes to share your skill with us! Thank you!
Thank you for your support Robert 🙏
You are one excellent tech. The sherlock holmes of milli amp leaks no doubt.
Prime is the gratitude in driving a 98 truck with no electrical failure issues cause it's so low tech. My engine even faces forward!
Always love these parasitic draw cases. Great thought process, leading to the final diagnosis. Lots of interesting cases with some module not letting the bus / network go to sleep.
As soon as I saw the Scosche logo on that box, I knew it was going to be the problem XD. Sweet diag, never came across a radio converter with that behavior before! Tell the customer to go with Idatastart and idatalink for radio to vehicle adapters. Best in the industry if they have that issue again.
Hello Ivan good video. Once again demonstrating that in today's electronic world, if you do not have a good grounding in electronics and several thousands of dollars of diagnostic equipment, the chances of tracking down the actual bad component is doubtful. Keep up the good work and teaching us old timers where and what to look for in the more modern electronically controlled vehicles.
Ivan, I don't think your diagnosis is complete until you take that sweet ride out for a test drive just to make sure all of the air is flowing correctly through the passenger compartment. Great job explaining in detail the process you went through tracing this draw problem through to the problem in the little black box. Thanks for Sharing!
Recently I’ve been using a thermal camera to find parasitic draw issues. You can see what’s staying hot after leaving it off for a while. It’s refreshing to see someone performing proper diag👍
Shades of Eric O? 😁
These aftermarket items can be a real pain when diagnosing these problems. If you find a charger plugged in to the power port but no phone or other device at the end, unplug that charger. They draw power even without the device to be charged.
Good work Ivan.
This was around 400ma of draw for me thanks for sharing.
Nice job Ivan 👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍
A good, logical diagnosis , Ivan....very interesting.
Thanks BestBuy and Pioneer for costing this customer at least a diagnostic fee and whatever else.
Early on in the video I was yelling in my head "aftermarket radio". But I understand the diag that you did
Your a great teacher. I start to understand the more I watch.
I had one of these jeeps in the shop a couple of months ago with an aftermarket can bus adapter for the radio causing a draw as well. Those things seem to fail all of the time and it was the same exact box that was in the keep you’re working on. I’d rather just change the cigarette lighter to accessory power only and get the ignition on power for the radio from there eliminating that stupid adapter that is a common failure point. I don’t like adding any sort of additional components that increase the chance of a failure. Chryslers have enough battery draw issues without adding the possibility of another one. 😂
For parasitic draw tests using the mV measurement across fuse technique, I would recommend a higher resolution DMM like the Fluke 287, which has a resolution of 0.001 mV on the 50.000 mV range. This is a meter I originally purchased for my general purpose electronic test bench, but I have been using it for auto electrical troubleshooting because of the excellent features. One being the high resolution on the 50.000 mV range which is perfect for across fuse parasitic current draw measurement. Another nice feature is the relative Ohms to null out lead resistance.
It should be noted that if you disconnect the battery (power down) to make a series parasitic current measurement without maintaining continuity the parasitic draw may go away never to return. Also, if you disconnect power, you will have to wait until the vehicle is asleep again before troubleshooting parasitic draw. With a test lead technique you can maintain vehicle power while you introduce the ammeter (make before break). However, the biggest risk to using a series ammeter on a low scale is the parasitic draw testing my require going key on, then key off, which in this case, the vehicle can draw several amps which could blow the fuse in the meter on the low current range (440mA fuse on the 400mA range for example). So for key on you have to use the higher amp scale which is usually protected with a 10A fuse.
If you pull a fuse box fuse to see if the parasitic draw goes away, when you reinstall the fuse you may have to wait for modules to go to sleep to continue troubleshooting, which can take up to 35 minutes. An alternate approach, which requires getting to the wire feeds from the fuse box, is to use a sensitive DC current clamp meter like the B&K 316 (Good resolution and small jaws) to measure individual circuit current draw rather than pull a fuse. This way you do not have to wait for the modules to go to sleep. So my approach is to measure wire currents and not disconnect power until I have narrowed down the problem to its source, then I will disconnect power.
My approach to parasitic draw tests is to first measure the magnitude of the parasitic draw with a clamp meter if possible. If the draw is high like in the video, 800mA (which is enough for fuse mV testing) I would then put the vehicle on life support using a current limited DC linear PS with a reverse current protection diode. This set up is to put a slight charge on the battery (which is usually in bad shape because of the no crank), keep a regulated reference voltage on the vehicle like 13V (this is handy in measuring voltage drops relative to a known set supply voltage), and allow lengthy troubleshooting without the battery going dead. Some difficult parasitic draw problems can take hours to troubleshoot, and if you charge while troubleshooting you can prep the vehicle faster.
I should mention that the "life-support" method is the only real easy method to charge the battery from the under hood jump start posts when the battery is buried in the trunk or under a seat. I have a huge silicon power diode which was originally designed (about 10 years ago with spare parts, I would like to upgrade to SiC diodes in parallel with no fan) for 20 Amp continuous so it has its own 120VAC temperature controlled cooling fan on a heatsink. The reverse current blocking DC power supply is very handy because it is working with the battery in case a large load, like a cooling fan is energized, the battery supplies the momentary surge current and the linear supply steady state current.
Another case of the dreaded battery drain. Cast your bets: Heads, it's an infotainment unit, tails, it's an aftermarket gizmo. Today's winner: an aftermarket infotainment unit! Everyone's a winner!
Hey Ivan you can prevent the meter from powering off automatically by holding select when you switch it on
Hi Ivan,
My sister had a 2001 Grand Cherokee bought used with one year warranty. The transmission failed and they replaced it with one that had similar mileage. It developed a high battery drain of almost 1.5A after the replacement that would drain the battery in a couple of days. It was one of the circuits on a 50A maxi fuse, but could not find the cause. I installed one of those wireless battery cutoff switches to save the battery. It worked fine until one day the right rear trailing arm broke from the chassis due to extreme rust. Was not repairable. My sister sold it for scrap. Stay safe.
Ur audio had a draw in the beginning, then fixed itself, u killed two birds with one stone without knowing it, thanks for posting
Can you imagine having taken the Jeep back to Best Buy with "my battery goes dead now that the radio was installed" and having them do this diagnosis? Maybe they would find the issue but my guess is all they would do is a visual.
As tedious as it is with these parasitic draws, finding and then fix, I find them interesting but not all vehicles have the easy access as this Wrangler does. I can imagine a fully loaded mini van or a Ford Platinum series vehicle being a really involved job in getting to the modules they are filled with plus the routing of the wiring etc.
Battery drains have always been my hardest problems. I keep saying that I'm not gonna do them anymore, but I like the challenge.
Classic Pioner CAN Dongle. Had a different model and different Can box model. I have made a comment in the past about that issue.
Made the BCM go bananas and even stalled the engine. Nissan X-trail/Rogue 2.0 Diesel Automatic
I have a Fiat Stilo (european version) and it also uses the CAN signals to wake up the radio. There is no ignition power feed. However the radio functions autonomically of the rest of the vehicle, at least for some part. You can turn it on when the car is off and key is out of the ignition, it will display "20 minutes mode" which means it will shut down automatically in 20 minutes. Of course the radio wakes up the interior CAN, making the cluster go awake for a brief moment - the backlight for the display turn on for few seconds and it shows the time and mileage (same thing happens when you open or shut a door). You can choose in the settings whether the radio should be turned on and off automatically with ignition on/off or should you do that manually if you want. The guy who owned the vehicle before me had an aftermarket radio in there and I found he connected into one of the wires behind the dash with ignition power. Wonder if that Pioneer could be connected in a similiar way, making the ignition power or accessory power wake it up straight away. Then you wouldn't need that magic box at all.
I really enjoy these types of repairs.
Sounds to me like some diode is gone and it's now allowing current to flow in both directions keeping everything energized
When I had a PT Cruiser I just wired my aftermarket radio's ignition sense wire to the power window switch. On my radio it was just a sense wire and didn't draw any amperage. I always heard those adapter modules crap out after a couple years.
Truly interesting diagnosis, that may help me some day. I switched the radio in my 2010 Chevy HHR Panel Van, and it turns out the clicking noise for the turn signal actually came from the stock radio's left speaker. Thankfully, the site from which I purchased the radio suggested a converter box with a built-in speaker that intercepts the signal (CAN bus?) commanding the click and makes the sound based on turn signal operation! In addition, it energizes a relay to power the aftermarket radio. I don't know about other cars, but the Chevy radio stored the VIN number of the car and allowed it to turn on when it got matching data from the bus. The module I bought with the radio programs itself on first power-up to get around the VIN number crap and make it work in my car. Man, I HATE this kind of complexity! What Chevy wants is to charge you big bucks to program the VIN into an OEM radio. I am SO thankful I could find a module to get around that business, and I just hope I have the smarts to troubleshoot it if the module fails. Then, I hope I'm smart enough and lucky enough to find and buy another compatible replacement!
it seems to usually be an add on,, a remote start, a vehicle tracking device, an aftermarket radio or amp.. these newer vehicles dont like non factory items installed on them.
As you discovered, the factory radio is the sound card in ComputerCars. The VIN matching was intended to be an anti-theft feature. A stolen radio wouldn't work in a new car. (But then a junkyard radio wouldn't work either). It's not hard to open the radio and reprogram the device that stores the VIN. If blanked out, the radio will do the same thing - learn from the car on first power up. I learned all this by putting a 2015 factory radio into my 2013 car so I can get "bendy" lines on the backup camera.
@@russellhltn1396 Yeah it's stored on a little 8-pin eprom usually and with the correct software and adapter you can easily write whatever Vin you want to it with a computer and resolder it to the board.
@@lustfulvengance You don't even have to remove it from the board. It's about $15 part for the reader/burner off of eBay.
Your pocket multimeter has seen better days brother. 😂 Thanks for the great video.
What I did was run both radio wires to ignition source and eliminate the constant 12v but the radio won't have any memory but the battery will stay alive.
Just like Eric and Ivan, I *hate* aftermarket shit. I just had a Town and Country with intermittent turn signals. Turns out the receiver for the aftermarket remote start was physically resting on the blinker relay and causing poor connectivity at one of the pins.
The dude/ette who created the 'angry jeep' headlight thing... they must be living on a beach in Rio de Janeiro by now. It's rare to see a Jeep that doesn't have one up here in NH.
Another fun video to watch btw. Thank you.
Great diagnostic trouble shooting. I think it's pretty sad this JEEP needed a replacement engine.
Probably burned through all of its oil and blew up lol
Nice work!
Interesting radio setup... I figured something goofy was going on when you had the key out initially and that radio was still alive. Interesting how it's now the can bus on some vehicles now waking up the radio instead of a dedicated wire. Definitely the trend of the industry.... Eliminate wires where possible and add yet another module to handle it! 😆
In my 2013, the radio will stay on until the door is opened, or 10 minutes has passed. The fact this Jeep has had it's door removed makes me wonder if that is part of the problem. The device is waiting for something that never happens.
I was wondering that as well might be why it takes 10min for the can to go to sleep fully as the door switch never cycles
Nicely done.
I was thinking just do away with the stupid box and wire the radio power directly but as pointed out in the comments the box allows the steering wheel controls to function.
It unfortunate that the engineers for vehicles are running everything on a can bus when any module can screw you up good.
Also I learned a few things from your diagnostics. Great video.
I was lucky enough to find a Chinese aftermarket stereo with the steering controls built in - no hokey pokey converter needed like all the major brand named stereos seemed to.
the aftermarket radio adapter has an updated part cr4000sw
I'm dealing with a power draw issue for the first time now and this was very helpful to watch. Seems the issue is only coming from my m13 and j13 iod fuses. Hopefully I can find the issue soon.
Find it? Same m13
@@EdBlack- Never found it. It got slightly better though. But I just remove the battery cable if I don't plan on driving for any longer than three days.
I got confused when you said radio. So I googled it. Interesting. Why would such an ancient device be in this vehicle I wondered. Then I pondered the doors? and immediately thought of some circus ride and their "safety" bars, which you soon realize don't make you feel safe at all when you're at the top. And then you start contemplating how you will die and whether it will be really painful.
Bummer, and I always thought Pioneer was a good brand of radio. Sounds like they have a few bugs to work out. Nice job Ivan.
You have fired the "disconnect it" cannon! ;) and hit. well done.
It’s a good video for content. As I started watching snd not just listening... it really looked like a B movie western where they voice over English over the original language it was filmed in.
Very... entertaining! Now....I’m looking forward to the diag on the video as bonus footage to the complicated current draw diag.
Funny!!!🤣
I have the perfect case study for you! 2003 Chevy venture 3.4 The internet is filled with this vehicles fast idle problem. No one has a fix for it, yes the parts "double" barrel cannon is fired at it. I have a 89 year old friend that can't let go of it because his now deceased wife and him went around the country in it. Anyway if you have a chance to work on one please do. People all aroun the country come to you for good reason, who knows it may be a no parts required fix😆
I don’t think my am/fm radio with a cassette player will ever have that problem. 😂😂
I always eliminate after market fitments first to save time when the customer isnt looking 😁😁
Great video and diagnosis got my subscription 👊🏻
I try to avoid these magic CAN boxes. Most of the time, there is a place to get the accessories terminal from somewhere (brake light switch often works). Otherwise terminal 15 can always be found somewhere. Pulling a wire is much more reliable than those CAN boxes.
Diagnosis. Your box went nuts.
Great video I am having a problem 2015 jku sport 1st battery lated 3 years 2nd 3 weeks 3rd 2 weeks and 4th 3 months
Well done Ivan 👍
Waiting for a car to go to sleep watching the network my mind is going "Sleeeeeep Dataaaa Sleeeeeep."
Why U didn't make a relais for radio power feed controlled by ignition switch accessory mode.🤔
Thank you for this video
Great job as usual.
My guess 1/2 way is the dimmer on dash is connected to radio and the amp and radio have power in common and the dimmer is keep them alive and not asleep…
When I saw the comments about lip synch, I didn't think I noticed anything odd, but I normally view these diag videos at 1.75X speed, (usually still comprehensible and gets to the point quicker😁) slowed it back down to 1.0, and, yeah something doesn't mesh.
Depending on the channel, I do 1.6x to 1.8x. "Video Speed Controller" for Chrome is a wonderful plugin. (Works on most Chromium-based browsers like Edge or Brave.)
Yeah audio out of sync but not end of world!!!! Sunday morning is quickly becoming my fav you tube day!! Yeah!! PHD vid!!
My sky box does this. It drives me crazy. 🤪🤪
Nice job Ivan!
I usually use my infrared camera and do a walk around of the car and the components fuse boxes ect ect..( mainly with European cars that have tons of control modules. .. I leave car inside shops for about an hour or 2 before I do the walk around.. Has not failed me yet to locate where there is excessive heat within the vehicle.. I also do exactly as your doing but sometimes you cannot catch the draw when it is sporadically draw a couple of amps for several seconds then goes back to normal... ( that's when the scope comes out ) lol
Great video if you ever need a hand cloning modules I can help out im close to Philadelphia...
What's your favorite IR camera?
I'd be concerned the camera would tell you who is drawing the power, but not necessarily who is keeping it awake. I'd expect the culprit to be warm, but may not be "as warm".
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I have for Automotive a Flir E6 Thermal Camera and Snap On Thermal Camera.. The Flir works alot better it has higher resolution.. I also do microsoldering and have a microscope Link Seek Thermal Camera and several others when looking for shorts within control module and other electronics ( iphones, and other mobile electronics)
@@russellhltn1396 you would be surprised how much time is saved when using a Thermal camera... Alot of times it will be dum things that kill battery.. like a rain sensor on windsheild or a rear view mirror that does not affects communication by keeping the bus active...
@@Autokey_Security_Services I'm sure it's a major help. If nothing else to eliminate innocent bystanders, just not an infallible "find the hottest thing".
Awesome diagnostic Ivan! Your process of elimination lead you directly to the problem. But does not answer the cause. This video is a prime example on how aftermarket audio systems sometimes won't play nice with the vehicles networking systems. And in this case, I suspect that since the Jeep's door switches have been eliminated, that's why the radio won't turn off. A lot of newer vehicles have a feature that will keep the radio on, even after you turn off the ignition and remove the key. The radio will finally turn off "after you open the door". But since the door switches are removed, this problem will most likely continue until that feature is by-passed.
that is how my 2017 grand caravan works.. not sure what the reasoning behind it is.. maybe to finish listening to the song playing without having the van running or in accessory mode? Or if u had someone waiting in the van, you could leave them in there without leaving the keys? they would have to let you get out first, then after you shut your door, turn off the engine, then hand you the keys thru a open window,.? i have always wondered abt this.
Same with my 2013 GM. It's actually a nice feature if you're turning off the car but staying inside, such as waiting for someone. Mine will time out after 10 minutes, but it's possible the module itself stays awake until the door opens.
@@randy1ization I believe that is exactly the reason for it. Either to listen to the remainder of a great song playing on the radio, wrap up a phone conversation or even roll up the windows, without having to leave the engine idle needlessly.
when i get it down to one or two fuses using the drop method , i then take out the fuse and put an ampmeter in series
How does that make things better? You still can’t start the vehicle as most circuits are over the meter’s 10 amp fuse limit. And then you still will have to go back to the battery to verify the entire system is repaired before releasing the vehicle?
nice video had a question i have a 2015 jk looking for a bi directional scan tool that works with Chrysler/jeep i use Autel ms906 but has very little functions for that year jeep. i know you have used a few scan tools over the years and have a good idea what tools have good test functions for that year jeep. thanks !
The lack of a door switch bothers me. I'm wondering if the "magic box" is waiting for the door to cycle - but of course, it never does. Does this Jeep not have any door switch at all, or has it been removed with the factory doors?
The last few videos the audio is out of sync, I replayed a few older one and they are good.
WCM is actually World Class Manufacturing,.....LoL
Is there a better box than the Scosche? Would you have this same problem if you buy a head unit that is Jeep JK specific like the Alpine Restyle?
Ivan, I’ll bet the issue with the Jeep are the door switches. Those nice new doors don’t activate the door switch. In Dodge/Ram/Jeep vehicles, the radio stays on until you open the door. I believe there’s a setting in the original radio for the time delay length but that is gone with the old UConnect radio. Do the interior lights come on or did they remove the bulbs?
Most vehicles, 50mA or less is perfectly acceptable. Some vehicles will have 100mA of parasitic draw which is "normal" off the lot. You would need to check service info for the acceptable parasitic draw. Some will be under 10mA but others can be much higher. You can really chase your tail on some vehicles for a problem that doesn't exist.
180mah max
So new cars aren't designed to be parked for a month? That's poor design if you ask me. Maybe the battery manufacturers lobbied the auto manufacturers to build in bigger parasitic draws haha! Please let me know which cars have 100mA draw off the lot :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
It was about 5 years ago when I encountered a couple. I want to say one of them was a Chrysler or maybe GM vehicle. If I remember I'll post the vehicle. I wouldn't say new vehicles are not designed to last a month but I would agree it is a little ridiculous. Most new and older vehicles are under 50mA.
@@pharezknights5467 What do you mean 180mah max? The general rule of thumb is under 50mA. If your suspecting an issue, look in service info for acceptable parasitic drain values so you are not chasing a ghost.
Now obviously 800mA is a big issue so no need to look up service info for that. But let say you think you found the problem and it dropped to 95mA or 70mA and wouldn't go lower, well this could be the acceptable parasitic drain for that car.
I noticed that the audio sync looks good on your outro. So it's only the first part of the video that's really a problem. (at least that I noticed, because you can't really tell when the camera is pointing away from your face.)
Well Done
Hey lets just find an ign hot under the dash and tap that for our stereo turn on instead of using that wonderful chinese mystery box
So was the radio/amp backfeeding power into the can keeping it powered? maybe the radio black box was not compatible with a vehicle with a can system? or maybe its chinese junk no worky right?
As soon as I heard the words Best Buy, I thought to myself "And there is your problem...."
That box could be connected in a wrong way. You could check it.
Aftermarket is always T which only means one thing in all languages "TROUBLE" buy thrash, then try living with it. Nice fix but ain't easy.
I chased a draw for 2 hours. Found it was the drivers side power seat switch.
Think I’m having the exact same issue on mine. Am I able to perform this same diagnostic with a multimeter only?
I thought i was watching a dubbed film, Bruce ivan as " Enter the wagon"
Hmm after market junk and they didn't even put a relay in the power to the radio, how dare they lol :-D
Aftermarket radios do not allow bcm to go to sleep. Module keeps looking for the radio
Ivan isn't happy unless he breaks out his Pico :) NIce job! Trying to buy one but boy do they think HIGHLY of their products. Any suggestions when buying one?
how do the videos get out of sync with audio ? been getting this a lot lately
That is the question of the day...
Google found out you have a trump sign.
so, how did they replace or replicate the door lock switches, when they put those weenie whacker door bars on>
Hi I bought my son a 2009 Jeep Jk sport with a factory Am/FM radio. I upgraded to the jeep factory Sirius touch screen radio and now battery is dies over night. New battery ,going to check fuses tonight. Any suggestions?
Gotta luv that after market chinese stuff
I bet they take that thing to Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania.......
I hate these "smart" controls on things that don't need to be on the network. I personally believe in the old Keep It Simple Stupid motto and adding network communication to things like the radio is just stupid.
They probably powered the converter from the wrong power... it should be powered off keyed accessory, so the poor thing can sleep.
I think it gets it's power from the factory connector. At least for my GM, there is no "accessory" power at the radio. It gets power full time and it's controlled by the CANBUS. Welcome to ComputerCar(tm) - the data center on wheels.
Hey Ivan have you ever seen a abs module read 158 mph on the left front wheel? Any ideas?
You got to love the after market stuff lol.
Why do people want a remote start.
You cant drive it when not sitting in it lol
I get them because warming up the transmission prolongs the life since we have winters
When it is -15F outside and you have to park on the road, that is why. Start it 15min before you go outside and its nice and warm and the windows are thawed.
@@golfmaniac Seems kinda pointless on that Jeep.
@@russellhltn1396 Agree 100% on the Jeep, but that Jeep is one in a million.
I have a 2017 wrangler with a parasitic draw. I have an aftermarket radio/sub woofers. I unplugged the AMP Fuse controlling the radio to see if my battery would drain over the course of a week. It did - jeep would'nt start after about a week and a half. Could the converter box behind my radio still be drawing amps even though I took the fuse out??
Did you have a drain BEFORE installing the aftermarket audio?
I have the same problem in my grand Jeep Cherokee 2018
What my next move to solve this problem
Have you gotten rid of that snake as yet?
👌
VERY NICE.
I wish you would've showed how you hooked up your amp meter
I did...like 1 minute into the video haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeah....not really. You mentioned it but you didn't explain anything. The only thing you can see are like 500 clamps on the positive terminal coming from different meters 🤷🏾♂️
I don’t know about you Ivan but suspect number one should’ve been that - stereo as I would call it or that remote start system typically wiring problems or just or just junk
Do you have wiring diagrams for other models? Looking for a 2015 Jeep renegade
I use AllData 👍
Do you advise me to buy Autel Scanner MaxiSys Ultra
MS 909 or 919?
Wow yeah Ivan..audio off