Have Never Seen THIS Kill a Battery Before... (Parasitic Ram - Part 1)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Welcome back to Pine Hollow Parasitic Draw Diagnostics (PHPDD).
Customer brought his newly acquired 2015 Ram 1500 Hemi over from 3 hours away because he is sick of having to disconnect the battery every night.
Brand new AGM battery goes DEAD in less than 1 day!
BTW this truck has had SIX DIFFERENT OWNERS! Maybe that's why he got it for a good price!
Let's dive right in and figure out where the current is going...just about EVERYWHERE!
Yup this is going to be a module and network diagnosis. Someone is not going to sleep.
IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.c...
WIFI PARASITIC LOGGER:
• GADGETS#168 - WiFi PAR...
TOPDON TORNADO 90000 BATTERY CHARGER:
www.amazon.com...
THINKTOOL PROS: *****$100 OFF!!***
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ASTRO DVOM:
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Enjoy!
Ivan
I have to say that these parasitic draw diagnostics are my favourites. Very few people are capable of performing the root cause analysis required to determine the issue so it's a real treat to be able to follow along with Ivan.
It's a large gap in the skills of many a mechanic. Most just ship it off to an auto electrician.
What generally causes a parasitic draw to begin with?
Having the right tools is one thing, knowing how to use them is what makes you one of the best at diagnosing. I’m always amazed at how quickly you can find the problem. Nice work Ivan. It’s a good day when I get a notification that you’ve posted another video. Can’t wait for part 2.
Ivan needs to get one of those long beige coats and a stubby cigar (it don’t need to be lit) and an old car! Well, He’s already got that old Suzuki.😅😅🇺🇸
I had a dying battery problem on my 1994 F150. Charged up the battery and looked at the engine bay at night with the Infrared Camera I use for roof surveys. Back of alternator was hot. Bad diode. I replaced the alternator, problem gone. That damned alternator only lasted 26 years 😂. It's best to use IR at night to minimize reflectance, and viewing the target through a poly bag minimizes the emissivity problem of items with different emissivity ratings.
Ivan is on another level with the way he interprets those wave forms. I bet he is sporting a very high IQ. As I watch this I am remembering the fuse box on one of the Saabs he worked on right there behind the glove box, perfect place for it. Right where you could sit in the passengers seat and work on it. I guess that makes too much sense????? 😮
Ivan, what You do is so much more than just teaching and sharing Your knowledge, especially with old farts like myself, it’s just so much appreciated and enjoyable. I’m sure I speak for many others. Thank You. 👍👍🇺🇸
Yep. It's therapy
Us old farts don’t have the eyesight, backs and skin to do this anymore
@@dharley189 And don’t forget the shoulders. Been at least 5 or 6 years since the last time I was under the dash of one of those freakin old jacked up jeeps. No one could pay me enough to get in those positions again. That was an agonizing recovery.
I like the fact that you bypass measuring voltage drop on all the fuses and jump straight to looking at the networks. Seems like you save a lot of time doing that 👍 respect
Way over my head ... Simply amazing to me as an average consumer. Loved watching the whole process though! Fascinating diagnostic talent.
Cause of parasitic draw is most likely upper management. "If we make cars more efficient then it will be difficult to sell more of them." "Lets install unnecessary modules and sh*t to make it harder for the garage mechanic to fix." Forget about the customer.
Thanks Ivan for an excellent show!
Best auto troubleshooting channel on the internet. Ivan you rock. I had a vehicle that whenever the weak battery (needed swapped) would discharge, it would mess with the computer. I could recharge the battery (isolated), but when I reconnected the battery..... the dash gauges and door switch assemblies.... would remain non functioning. Further the interior lights and radio would remain on even after shutting off the vehicle and removing the key. Thus draining the battery again in a vicious cycle. The vehicle ran just fine and drove fine. But the instrument cluster and door switch assemblies were not functioning, with a fully charged good battery installed. It turned out disconnecting the leads to the battery and holding them together for 30 seconds and reconnecting the charged battery made everything back to normal. A "reset" of the computer module? In my case all my issues stemmed from a failing battery that when it would drain so low....cause the computer to need to be reset via above. You are a master at the troubleshooting and have the best content, you should start a franchise school out there! I want some of your tools (logger)!
Great job! Without the wiring diagram, it's just a truck full of wires and plugs, with no indication of which way to go!
I believe it's going to be the blend door actuator that he had the code for in the beginning. I was at Mopar dealer for a few years and late at night you could hear those strange clicks he's talking about. Turns out even with the car powered down every so often those faulty actuators still try to synch up with desired setting on HVAC controls. So that system never went to sleep, it just keeps trying to make things right until it runs out of power. Then of course it passes out and next morning when you try to start it you have to connect the defibrillator to it.....Clear! Clear!
The solenoid clicking was just. A great direction!
I can't say I've seen anything like this before. Good stuff Ivan. I know the battery sensors die pretty easy. Just hooking up a fresh battery or jump box while the key is on will do the trick every time. So that's no surprise there. You might want to talk to your client into replacing that as well because without it, the charging system won't work properly. Oh yeah, Ivan. Vehicles equipped with auto start/stop will say so in the tachometer. Written in text between the 0 and 1. Looking forward to part 2. I'm suspecting a bad climate control module is the culprit here.
That topdon is really getting its name out there by giving all you great teachers free stuff
They do make great tools!
That draw logger would be handy to diagnose parasitic draws. You are the man.
When you went to start up the truck for the first time and every thing was dead, I swallowed my heart. I ain't no Ivan! :D
Ivan is definitely part Blood Hound. The way he tracks down a parasitic draw.
Ivan, hope you have this one figured out. Lots to deal with here. Simple fix seems way out of question. Feeling a sense of frustration crawling around under the dash but your ever present enthusiasm seems to be carrying you through. Looking forward to Part II. Thanks for Sharing!
With the use of that parasitic logger, you've really got this nailed down. Very impressive process. Thanks Ivan!
Until I started watching you I had never heard of a peracetic draw. And thank you for explaining what that is.
I'm 67 and do not remember having that type of problem in anything I owned or worked on. I find these post the most interesting of all. I have learned so must from them and continue to learn with each one.
Thank You.
I can't believe how many vehicles have this problem. Not just what you come across but on all of the other people I also watch. So much for advancements in the auto industry.
I think the truck weirded out when your battery charger went into disulfate mode. That's a series of high frequency pulses - probably at a higher voltage. Either that or it didn't like a slow rise in voltage. Either way, the ever faithful "power cycle the computer" comes though.
Parasitic draws are my favourite vids especially when ivan finds them .
That logger is SERIOUSLY fscking amazing! The data it produces with timestamps is *PRICELESS!*
I don't know why (OK, I do... I used to repair basic board level problems on PCs/laptops), but I feel the need to splurge on your tools!
The clicking I thought was Chrysler's self destruct module when the vehicle hits 10 years old...lol
A Friday night Ivan Mystery . This is great.
Had the same symptoms - battery dead after 2 days. Got new battery - same. Finally discovered it was the radio - despite looking as being OFF with key out it was still pulling amps. A single cheap component had failed on the board, some resistor or similar, got it diagnosed and replaced. 2008 Hyundai. Such a pain in the...
The clicking could've been a "red herring" if you located the source (a/c compressor) of that before scan tool or network diagnosis. In this case, however, it might've led you directly to the faulty system.
Eager to see Part #2!
Well, you're becoming a king of parasitic draw jobs!! All to common problems with those rams! Great job to find the right plug to unplug, lol. At least you're the last ditch effort to get it diagnosed! Hahaha. Great job Ivan!
He should be on Netflix bro always full video what a great diagnost
These parasitic draws are just amazing to watch. It's unfortunate that auto makers hide electrical in such inaccessible locations. Sure makes it hard to work on vehicles.
These are always great videos! Parasitic draws are already complex to diagnose - on top of that, why do manufacturers make key component locations almost inaccessible?
Looking forward for Part 2 - this looks like an interesting case, with the AC clutch pretending to be a clock :-)
Certainly a young tech’s game. Us old guys don’t have the back , eyesight or skin to be tugging on connectors under the dash.
@@dharley189 There's some truth in that 🙂
Hey Ivan nice video I recently had to charge a low battery ,it had a battery monitor on it I found connecting the ground side after the monitor or the engine block while charging finally worked (my son’s 1500 ram) kinda had the same problem while trying to start until I changed the ground connection on the charger removed the charger and it worked. Cheers
When I heard that clicking, the first thing I thought of was the compressor clutch. I've had trouble with those before.
That should not be getting power, though, with the ignition off.
Ivan, Would have been here earlier but I had a drivers front wheel bearing to replace. I really enjoy your diagnostic skills and the tools needed to do your magic.... Pete
Pine Hollow parasitic draws. man I love these " finding the missing electrons " episodes :)
I fixed the parasitic draw on my 2019 Infiniti QX60 for under $40 after I had enough of it.
How?
I bought a remote control connect/disconnect relay on Amazon for around $40 or so. It is installed on the battery to connect and disconnect the battery.
When I get done driving I simply disconnect the battery via the little remote control's off button and every time I want to start my car I simply click the on button on the little remote. That remote has pretty good range too. 3 times the range of the car remote. 100 feet away, no problem. But the car remote roughly 30 feet I tell you.
And here is an interesting detail. Since I lock the doors via car's remote, with that the lights on the car also comes on but then it takes a minute to turn off. Well the detail is and it took me few times to actually figure this out, I need to wait until the lights turn themselves off. Then I push the off button on the remote.
Why?
It is because if I don't wait, next time when I turn the battery on, the alarm on the car goes on as a result, then I have use the car remote to click the unlock door tab for the alarm to go off. The alarm is just annoying. But if I wait for the lights to go off, then I push the off button on that remote, everything is fine.
We need more electrical modules in our life😂
Hey Ivan, one thing. I recently had a problem with my Range Rover Sport and had a strange thing where the Autel was showing 11.4v but the battery itself actually had 12.5v. I originally suspected it was the gateway module or the battery maintenance module (the thing that is connected to the battery itself.) It turned out water got into the ECM...Anyway, in researching the issue I found something very important. The workshop manual said to NEVER connect a battery charger directly to the battery, because it could damage the battery maintenance module on the negative terminal. It said instead to charge the vehicle from the jump point under the hood. This is a Bosch system. You might want to check if Dodge is similar, especially since you are getting that code regarding the module on this particular vehicle. And in future, you might want to keep that in mind before hooking up a charger direct...may pay off to look it up in the literature before doing so.
I haven't learned all the fine details yet on this, but I've heard that the computer monitors all the current in, and out and keeps score.... New battery, the scoreboard needs to be reset. Crazy technology maintaining these batteries.
Riveting video as usual! Thank you Ivan. Interesting that the truck didn't like the higher charger voltage setting. Although a lead-acid battery at rest is generally 12.5V, or is it 13.8V? Or perhaps it's sposed to be 13.8V with the engine running I forget!
So it looks like the a/c fan clutch controller is on the fritz ay mate? I can't think of any circumstances where that clutch solenoid would be deliberately pulsed on & off all the time like it was. It may be a faulty capacitor inside the solenoid controller module is my guess.
Concern: Two networks had activity when the truck was shut off. You disconnected one, and the instrument cluster turned off. You have now chased down and homed in on what is keeping the second network awake. When that is fixed, will that fix be what kept the first awake as well or will there continue to be a parasitic draw from the first network? Thanks for making these videos. It's really a service.
One network wakes up the other through the gateway BCM. After the fix everything should go to sleep 😊
that was excellent.
after watching your videos, I can't wait to attack my Mercedes problems when this Maine snow melts away !!!
They should add to the repair procedure in the OE manuals: Offer owner sedative before explaining the bill to them.
Morning Ivan. Great coffee entertainment as always thanks man!
Ivan, mate, you are the Guru of Diag.
i agree with ivan fed say obd connector should be with in inchs of steering wheel need to have the CAN bus topologies test point
As an armateur (arm chair amateur) I would start with the inferred camera if I had one. Eric O pulled his out the other day and the battery was dead so use it or lose it.
@@notaffiliatedwith7363 hahaha
Good stuff lol😂
I didn't even bother with the IR camera in this case because it was clear that every single module on the truck would glow ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics could have been a great visual for a dual Xmas tree
@@notaffiliatedwith7363 Perhaps normal battery self-discharge.
This is looking like one of your more difficult diagnoses... being there's enough for another full episode, it's gunna be good!
in many cases, no scopes or special tools needed. Disconnect (remove) ALL fuses and check the drain first. Then, add fuses one by one and re-check the drain.
No way man lol
The suspense is killing me dude...lol..You have a interesting approach with stuff like this, I can dig it.
Yoooo what's up JT? Hey you must see these trucks at the Ram dealer all the time! Common issue?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Not as much as I use to or they either end up with the other techs in the rear. Im not sure how well you set up as for scan tools but there's a few I've found where a module just simply would not power things down. I don't wanna alter your approach or confuse ya audience so we need to talk offline or social media msg or some. But this newer stuff coming down the pipeline addressing a lot of the previous problems we've had with IOD.
I really like the newer Chrysler can network comb connectors, sure beats unplugging individual modules, unfortunately I've been working on an older 2005 town and country with intermittent PCI bus failure that does not have a bus bar system like this, I like the draw log , nice tool.
all pci distribution should emanate from a diagnostic junction port, looks identical to a dlc, it should hang out taped up under the dash. use it just like a comb, depinning it to separate modules!
But it's a 2005...how many modules are there?
yeah, for once chrysler almost did something right again. 🙄
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics more than I thought, it’s fully loaded, radio, dvd player rear tv all the rear door modules , tipm , front control module pcm and the bcm is the gateway. There where two splices one behind the dash one under the drivers seat but they just crimped all the wires together. Complaint was battery draw and going dead but I found the bus was shorting had 10.2 volts so not quite short to battery when it acted up should be a 0 to 7.5 volt signal. It was very intermittent might go down for a minute or two then come back and work for 2 hours with no fault. Cluster would die, then some of it would work with all the warning lamps on, when dead only had com with pcm through the SCI programmable bus all other modules where down, found a bad green crusty on the abs module PCI wire in the tipm have not got it act up since I isolated that wire, found corrosion in other connectors in the tipm too. Going to throughly test it then get a tipm for it, going to replace the wiring terminal ends for that PCI wire too.
@@jovangrbic97 they had that on the earlier models on jeep too but stoped using in for a while, on this van the wires are spliced under the drivers seat s302, there just crimped together and taped. There’s another behind the radio too. It was pretty foolish to remove that bus bar, I’m glad they started using them again.
And the mystery continues! Those headlights are awesome and last a good while. ✌🏻
Interesting stuff, so basically two problems, radio and the A/C clutch drawing the battery dead, looking forward to the part 2 video :)
I don't think the radio was the draw, it seemed the Hvac module was keeping the network awake.
Nice job! Can't wait for part 2
Open up or separate the modules to see which side is the problem. Sounds like Eric O from SMA.
Having that comb there is great. What about corrosion at the combs or module connectors?
Good one Ivan.
great camera shots to bring us along, thanks for posting
Tip: Don't assume because the front plugs look good that the back are the same condition unless you have been the only person touching them. Some lazy shops only replace the fronts because the rear plugs are laborious.
You should check All plug gaps. I've seen them vary in gaps straight out of the box. You need to be very miticulas and careful with Iridium and Platinum Plugs. No Gorilla maintenance with gaping.
Great diagnostic as usual. Something tells me the AC clutch is not the problem.
Yes just a symptom not a cause 👍
Ivan, our company had a late model diesel van that we only used every few months at best. So we had to remember to go out and start it at least every few weeks to keep the battery charged. One time we went too long without starting it and when we cranked the engine turned half a turn and I heard the famous klick klick klick Of a dead battery. After leaving it overnight with a charger the next morning it was completely dead and the only thing that would work is when the ignition key was turned on one of the turn signal lights lit up and stayed on. Nothing else would work no radio no horn no lights etc. so after thinking about it I figured the battery voltage got so low that the engine computer essentially crashed into a illogical state and when the battery voltage was restored the computer was a brick. So I disconnected The battery and waited a minute and reconnected. No small feet because the batteries were under the front seat with giant size torx screws holding the seat down. And presto-chango the engine started and everything worked again. So the World has come full circle. I recall 40 years ago when the joke was that Once cars were loaded with computers, they would have to be rebooted once in a while when they start acting weird……… this is why I’m never selling my 1962 Jeep!
Great Diagnostic,
I still need to learn a lot you make it seem to easy,
I learn a lot from you thank you🤝
That desulfurization takes off the coating of sulfur that builds up as battery drains. That's a good Feature
Mike, would that be more useful in a Marine type of battery?
dude that was truly a great vid makes you wanna keep all your old cars thanks again!!!!
Fighter with electroparasites Ivan!
Looking forward to part 2
Aneng AN9002 (bluetooth) could do some of what the HScope/HS402 data logger does. It may not give you the log quite in the same way. Most people are going to have an easier time getting the AN9002. Martin has the HS502 available, but the HS402 is a different matter. I've made four or five of the HS402 wifis for people, but they're not widely available.
When I heard that clicking noise I knew exactly what it was it’s the heater door clicking. 2004 body style impalas we’re notorious for this I had a ss and everyone I ever knew had this issue.
The HVAC was the only thing lit up when the car was "dead" at the start of the video.
Most modules will go into a protected shutdown mode once the battery voltage goes below a certain threshold, hence you were unable to wake-up the car until completely disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, but the HVAC unit was still going full send.
So don't know whether you saw it or not, but you could have made a reasonable "guess" in the first minute that it was going to be the HVAC, but of course following proper process that you know works is the correct thing to do, and to take us along for the journey 👍
It will become clear in Part 2...
Great RAM commercial.
Yes, I love the design of the Chrysler networks. You can even separate the gateway at the Star Connectors. I'm not sure who first designed them but it couldn't have been an engineer. 😂😂
I think it's a Mercedes design 😎
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yes I believe so also.
This was fast as heck locating the offender. I'm curious if CAN decoding at some stage could identify the module by the ID as they should have a header announced to the network with each packet, or if it wouldn't work since one device awake might wake many others.
It might be interesting to explore if there were high enough resolution captures rather than just activity/no activity.
Microphones good rain sounds so crisp hitn the bag
I'm dying here, my ADHD has me pinging off the walls waiting for part 2...squirrel!
I was just about to comment exactly that. The gateways are almost always buried. If you're gonna put gateways in at least make them accessible!
At least the star connectors were right there 🙂
I got a 1937 plymouth pickup in the basement, I think I am going back to 1937.
I have worked in a dealership. No wondering why they took it to you.
Here's an idea, I suppose not a very good one but if the manufacturers are going to continue the number of modules insanity then how about adding a diagnostic module?
IVAN, AWESOME thought process/approach as always really very fast to solve those problems/ parasitic Draw thanks for sharing ur knowledge/information and last how we can get the parasitic Draw LOGER UNIT is there any link please shared brother as always learning from the best. cheeeeers
I just wonder if you would have accomplished the same by just pulling fuses because that would be my only goto. Really enjoy this channel.
Nope pulling fuses would not work in this case. Wrong approach for networked vehicles 👍
Agree with Brian W, from another old fart in the UK 😂 can't wait for part 2 Regards Richard 🇬🇧
excellent Job Ivan like always
The "External Disk" component is the optional CD player.
I'm 13 minutes in and several things stand out.
1a) The Left Solar Sensor short to battery. Did you confirm this?
b) Intelegent Battery Sensor. Is it unplugged as you suspected?
2a) Is the hood latch also closed? If the door latches are all in the closed/latched position, why did you have to turn off the interior lights?
b) Did you arm the alarm or lock the doors?
3) 4A is awfully high, much more than a simple Parasitic Draw. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the Immobilizer is holding the car in a "Ready" state rather than telling the networks to power down.
I had my own electrical adventure today finding a parasitic draw on a 2010 ford Fusion. It had an 850mA draw and 7 fuses in the SJB (buried in the dash) had significant voltage drop. It ended up being a bad GPS module keeping other modules awake. I didn't even know it had GPS since it didn't have Navigation but apparently starting in 2010 ford put one in every model for the "sync" feature that nobody ever uses. I threw the bad module right in the trash, car fixed no parts required.
Hah it's always those stupid GPS cell phone modules on Fords! 👍
Read a review the other day that when the phone companies switched off 3G it created a like problem in some cars, imagine now what's going to happen when 4G gets dropped.
You can connect two or more ammeters in series, so both meters show the current flowing in the circuit.
Sure! But why?
Nice that Chrysler has different colors for each module.
Recently I had an R350 with a can bus issue.
Mercedes has all network wires the same color, each module has a designated cavityin the connector.
Some bonehead mixed up all the plugs on the star connector so it was a royal pain sorting out the offending module and putting everything where it belongs.
I just couldn't leave it that way, what if it has another issue someday?
Rule here is , don't be a ding dong!!!!!
that is the new and improved RAM now they ever are better
I love this kind of videos :) !
H Ivan. Tanks for your very educating videos. In this video part 2, you use a wifi modul for parasetic draw. and it comunicated with your phone. Can you tell me where i can purcase one ? Or what
manufactor mede it. I am a Ford mecanic from Norway and i think this will be very handy in our shop. Keep up the good work.
It's a prototype device sent to me by a viewer 😉
im so glad i still have the battery charger with a needle gauge not that digital garbage
another great video ..where can i get one of those WiFi PARASITIC LOGGERs i need one
Now I don't wish I had a newer then my 2012. U can keep your UCONNECT.
Crazy how many modules in the left kick panel surely the amp could have been under the centre consol.
Can't wait for part two
My guess was something in the HVAC system, just having the experiences with Chryslers, as well as the solar sensor fault....We shall see what you find...
You flashed your WIfi name when you accidentally pulled down the swipe menu/ notification panel on your phone (12:24). You might want to change that SSID name now.
There are quite a few cheap (aliexpress) to premium Bluetooth multi-meters now - they hook up to your phone and give you logging capability...
From beginning while the car wasn't starting, i saw the hvac buttons were lit... I knew they were the ones causing the parasitic draw
Just wait for Part 2 haha
That was an awesome video. I like the topdon charger. It was fun following along. I'm going to invest in a pico and a signal generator next. What's the best pico in your opinion?
In the beginning of the video AC control panel was only thing illuminated, I suspected it.
Yes Scrap all these dam modules.
Disconnect the battery and let it sit for a few then reconnect it, truck should crank up, i think what happens with loose connections it messing with modules and kills all power, basically loose connections send a spike to modules and they usually disabled themselves until a complete power reset.
It’s a Dodge, typical blend door actuator opening and closing blend door at comstant intervals for no reason at all .
Yes exactly! And it's not a bad module or actuator typically. Just a bad design.
The metal contacts internal to the module make poor contact with the motor causing them to not make a good connection. Take them apart and clean them with contact cleaner, and you should be good. NPR
If the bcm is too difficult to quickly get to, couldn't you have unplugged its can wires from the star connector instead? That would've been a quick way to isolate the two can buses to see which bus isn't going to sleep.
Great video, thanks for the info!