Over all (including Non-Canon), S&W: Go Beyond would probably still not be able to defeat the Beyond Users from Jorge Joestar seeing that those guys get their Power from Meta-Fictional Writer who is above the whole JoJo Multiverse and views it as their own Fiction (being an infinite level Higher than Josuke), with there being statments that "The Only Thing that could beat a Beyond User is a Beyond User" (albeit this could be in question, due to Jorge Joestar coming out before S&W GB) So, DIO is stronger than Josuke but not with The World Over Heaven.
Imma be honest: you kinda just assumed a ton of stuff here. For example: you just assumed that part 8 killer queen scales to part 4 killer queen and thereby is ftl. However, if that isnt true then i dont think p8 kq has any ftl feats itself. Also, didnt tooru tank multiple go beyond bubbles and was still able to nearly perform a rokakaka exchange? Wouldnt that thereby imply that the explosions of the bubbles are really not that strong and therefore Dio over heaven could just heal after he gets hit?
Also, isnt go beyond technically a paradox? Since not having logic is the logic of how the stand works? Edit: also, how would the bubbles being 5th dimensional give them immesurable speed? By that logic, king crimson and ger should be at immesurable speed.
The strongest stands in Jojo in a nutshell: - "Like I said, it didn't happen" - Fingernails - Weaponized freak accidents - "Soap bubbles aren't real, they can't hurt you"
@@SuperNeos2 it’s kind of the same as breaking bad in my eyes, the show was so good that no matter what they did, the ending was going to “suck” just because you can’t really end a show well when it’s already had it’s best moments
@@chenxiangweimoe nothing= still logic josuke: my bubbles speeds inifinitely till become zero, so is at the same time infinite and also no speed, but those two can't exist at the same time, you can't have infinite speed/acceleration at the same time that you have 0 of them, breaking the logic
Go beyond is so powerful because it makes the sentence "nothing can kill me" into a literal sense, the bubble becomes nothing, therefore it can kill you.
Wonder of U existing in all Jojo universes really makes DIO's loss to Jotaro make much more sense. Having your head explode from your Stand's leg being punched is an example of calamity if I've ever heard one.
Nah, Dio's left side is weak according to his dialogue with Hol Horse somewhere in part 3, Dio attacks Jotaro with his right leg but Jotaro managed to block it so Dio uses his left leg instead but got Ora'd by Star Platinum and explode.
@@Darth_Bateman How was Dio "throwing the fight"? Yeah Jotaro outwitted him but Dio never made any exceptionally stupid decisions, he was as careful as he possibly could have been.
@@saucevc8353 "i am gonna laugh for 5 seconds and say am op asf and i am gonna go get a road roller which will waste most of my time and allow to mc to stop right at the moment cause am big brainer and am also gonna not count the fact THAT HIS STAND IS STILL AROUND THE SAME STR AND SPEED AS MINE SO MY BODY WILL STILL GET DESTROYED BY IT" and lets not forget the fact that it would take one punch to finish him off one proper punch and its over but NOOO he wanted to wait for him to see if he can time stop bro has the same curiosity as me in kindergarden "will this long thing bite me and might kill me LETS FIND OUT"
It just occurred to me with Araki’s statement: “Defeating him (WOU) might be *beyond* hope.” Soft and Wet Go *Beyond* …How did I miss that for so long?
It's moments like this that I remember why "bizarre" is in the title of JJBA. The (debatably) strongest stand in the entire series' primary ability is predicated on bubbles.
@@victoroliveira3577 bubbles that can predict the future/get a lay of the land and move accordingly. Also can show images via bubble, similar to a crystal ball.
@@victoroliveira3577 well it'd have to be similar to hermit purple so I think making it useful but not super strong is the way to go, plus it makes it more interesting.
To make it easier for everyone, soft and wet removes existing laws and concepts in an area and stores them for later release. Go Beyond does the same thing, but instead of removing and storing, it outright deletes them from pure existence. It’s power is to delete things like curses, that the Jojo universe considers inescapable law.
Y'know, I feel like, with all the craziness of part 8, part 9 will almost certainly have to take a step back and downscale power to something manageable. Something a little less... huge, if that makes sense.
I feel like that was the idea for first half of DiU, most of the stands in the firdt half were weak as hell however used relatively smartly (Exceptions are The Hand and Crazy Diamond), however at 2nd half, yeah, it just goes crazy
Idk. Technically speaking Araki already scaled down the direct stakes in part 8 when compared to part 9, so if Araki follows a pattern that means that the direct scale would be so minuscule but the underlying impact would be astronomical. Which… now that I say it has a lot of paradoxical problems off the bat so I don’t wanna bother trying to make predictions based on your scenario.
God, I love the concept of taking away an aspect of an object, it was so versatile and it made every fight more interesting and unpredictable. Even if it is not used a lot later in the part, it doesn't change the fact that Soft & Wet is one of the most interesting and most powetful stand in the series. I freaking love it.
Taking away some things is so useful, both in combat and out. You could take away friction from a bowling ball so it could roll with insane speeds You could take away the heat from a glass if you want a cold glass of water, or take away cold from a pot to make water boil quicker. You can do things like that, all the way up to taking away AIR FROM SOMEONE'S LUNGS, TAKING AWAY SOMEONE'S CONCEPT OF PAIN, TAKING AWAY SOMEONE'S SOUL. You would be a God of gods. Likely, I would use it for mundane tasks, because I'm not a murderous psychopath.
To sum it up, I'd say S&W Go Beyond is the strongest 'attack' but not the strongest stand. It's an attack that can be summed up as the strongest that we've seen in all of jojo but I believe a few stands would be capable of killing Josuke before he even uses it or while he's attempting to use it.
@Joseph Rogers the go beyond bubble is just basicly a beam, you have to aim it and hit someone with it, if you can't do that then it's useless. People like Pucci or anyone that can attack you instantly will win against go beyond
@Yasuhoismine it isn't, he didn't know it existed till he found out about it and unintentionally activated it, it isn't passive and he had to control it
@@Nicholasivanbabic He just need to awaken it. and if it is or not it won't even matter anyway cause gappy can just make multiple go beyond bubbles or make a big one to shield himself.
When it comes to the idea of strongest stands I've come to accept what Dio told pucci when explaining survivor. There isn't one because the stand power itself is subjective to the user and how it's implemented. Some good examples of the "strongest stands" that have huge limitations based on the users own capabilities are numerous. The hand, thoth, Purple Haze and the list goes on and on. Power In Jojo is such a complicated thing because a stand is limited to the user. For example a superspeed stand would be pointless on a person who can't walk unless they had the acumen to overcome this. It's such an interesting power system when you take the time to look at it
Was literally just thinking this. Go Beyond is kind of just a glorified beam when you think about it. It still has to be manually aimed and fired at a target. Any stand that is simply moving faster than it (Made in Heaven) or could find a way to disorient Josuke enough to fuck up his shot (perhaps something like Wekapipo's steel ball technique) could render him useless. Even a quick enough kill in time stop before he fires it off could counter him. I feel like the aim of this video is "Well S&WGB > WoU, therefore S&WGB > everything else" and that's just not correct. The reason that WoU is so strong IS because he is an innate counter to any attack (strongest defense is the strongest offense.) It's not just because Araki said so. S&WGB was pretty much designed just to counter WoU, which is part of the reason why I kind of hate it being introduced.
@@nicklemay8056 yeah and when it hits you it doesn't even kill you unless it's a vital area. i'd say go beyond has the highest scaling in the series in terms of overwriting other hax abilities, but that doesn't mean it wins every fight. i'm curious to see how it will be balanced if josuke is in part 9. hopefully we'll get to see him use plunder more cuz it was so under-explored. i don't want him to just death beam things and then lose if that doesn't work.
@@nicklemay8056 my editor took this part of the video out by accident, but one of the arguments I had at the very end of the video is the bubble would literally be transcending everything so it would move in time stop time skip and really anything it quite literally doesn’t care about vs arguments because it’s “ illogical“
@@METAsMETAs That's fair but I feel like we haven't seen enough of that to like prove it as fact. Wish we had more of Go Beyond instead of just like 10 chapters, or at least a better explanation of how it works.
@@METAsMETAs The thing with Time Erase is, that it just erases everything besides the user. If the projectile that Go beyond creates is part of the universe, that would mostlikley mean that it’ll be erased just like he rest of the universe. If not then I have no idea what would happen as nobody ever was inside time erase.
A stand that needs to fight in order to fight, yet can't be defeated if it fights. As in, as long as the stand/user isn't engaged in combat, it's an easy kill. As soon as it does, it will throw loads of plot armor into the enemies face.
@@mihailopopovic4759 WoU can't activate on its own. It has to be attacked first. With this variation, the user must be aware they're in a tight spot/endangered or raise their fists and strike first.
Soft and wet by itself is already absurdly strong even without go beyond. One way it can be used which i think they never do in the manga is he can steal the electricity or conductivity from a person making their brain no longer able to function since it can no longer fire synapses telling the body what to do so your heart stops beating, no breathing, etc.
@@gogetablueballs eh not exactly since it aint stealing and also i feel like josuke just didnt do that was dumb so it might mean that it requires something more or more complex property is harder to steal or smth
Hypothetically speaking, since the bubbles exist outside of reality, that means that even The World Over Heaven might not be able to rewrite then since he can only rewrite reality. But once again, this is hypothetically speaking.
@@riddlerthediddler4392 Man here's the thing, how can TWOH punch nothing, it'll hit nothing, it can't be rewrote if there's nothing to punch in the first place, it's nothing yet everything at the same time, so wtf am I talking about I actually don't even understand now, Alright nvm, basically TWOH can't rewrite the bubble because the bubble never existed in that reality in the first page, it's like the person who was shot from the bubble was shot from the person playing that game and it somehow hits.
@@riddlerthediddler4392 it could now operate in a way where he doesnt need to punch or hit something when he absorbed the corpse part i think i still dont think it van affect soft and wet bubble
Imagine getting a stand, and being like “cool so this gives me magic powers?” But than you get something like beach boy but than theres people getting time manipulation, power of calamity, moving between dimensions, simulating infinite deaths on your enemy, and be able to create infinity like tf are you gonna do in that world at that point
Just a correction: I believe Josuke is actually Kira's body with Josefumi parts, because if you pay attention to the way the new Rokkakaka works, that's the only possible scenario. It would also explain how Josuke awoke wearing Kira's hat and how Kira's clothes are a perfect match for him.
Well kinda spoilers here from the manga what baisicly happened is because if a fruit josefumi and kira merged into a brand new being eith no memories and the parts that didnt need cause kira was casually at the verge of death so josefumi tried to feed him the fruit that i dont remember its name but it works on equal exchange and when tried to do that the ground like sifted cause of an earthquake and they fell in so the equal exchange that hapenned was to basically a brand new being to be created thats why josuke has 4 balls and etc. ( corection its later revealed that ussing his stand power josefumi tried to replicate the fruit but it ended up being a more powerl full one that when the user eats it the personal he touches they switch their parts like for example if someone doesnt have am arm and eats that fruit and touches a person then he is gonna transfer the other person's arm to him but the other person would lose their arm. So when the ground shifted josefumi touched the in verge of death kira and they switched so many body parts that created a new human being that was half kira and half josefumi)
@@kyeda Where is it stated ger can nullify intent? Diavolo DEFINITLY still wanted to kill giorno, he was just freaked out, so I don't think ger can do that. Also, im not arguing that ger couldn't beat josuke, he could, josuke might not even HIT ger or giorno, since he can't aim go beyond's bubble, I'm just arguing, that if for whatever reason, ger LET him use go beyond, no one, not even josuke or ger, could stop the bubble.
@@dattos140 The main issue Go Beyond would run into is that the source of whatever causes Giorno to die would get reset back to a state where it wouldn’t, like I have basically zero doubt that Josuke even attempting to aim his bubble would trigger GER into removing the action, because that’s the inciting insider which would’ve led to Giorno dying…
There has been a recurring power scaling pattern I’ve noticed in jojo, and it’s that in every part an entity would always surpass the power of the previous part. Wether in one situation or another. (Spoiler warning) -Phantom Blood is the base, and it’s strongest powers consisted of Hamon and Vampiric powers. -Battle Tendency’s strongest power had to be the ultimate life form Kars, where he had the capacity to surpass the abilities of Part 1 -Stardust Crusaders’ strongest power was Time stopping, which would likely beat Kars because all life exists in the domain of time. Time reigns over it. -Diamond is Unbreakable’s strongest power was temporarily Bites the dust. Even though the Motion gang were able to beat Kira, if it weren’t for hayato’s plan then part 4 would end in a tragedy where the time loops would continue forever. Only by that point , we realize that fate transcends time. -Golden Wind revolves around the powers of fate, and the strongest stands there were GER followed by King Crimson. Even though one can escape their current situation, your fate is always inevitable in the end. (Example is the infinite death loop) This concludes Fate can be one of the strongest forces out there. -Stone Ocean had Pucci wielding a very strong stand being Made in heaven. Even though GER can be considered stronger than MIH in a 1v1, fate can only go so far as it can sometimes be abstract. Pucci was able to reset the original universe due to his control of doing so, he had the power to speed up and restart the universe due to his infinite speed. He did die to Emporio, which was his fate so fate is still on par I guess, yet fate is doing it’s work in the domain of a universe. -Steel Ball Run had very powerful abilities, those being the infinite rotation and D4C’s complicated ability regarding alternate universes. D4C had control over many universes, and he could switch in and out of any universe he wanted. But, he was defeated because the infinite rotation allowed an entity to constantly spin without obstruction, essentially spinning infinitely. That infinity followed valentine to multiple universes and sealed his fate. -Jojolion’s strongest powers were the Wonder of U’s calamity and Soft and Wet Go beyond. Wonder of U now wasn’t just a stand, it was a concept that was godlike. As shown by the video it absolutely can transcend, grounded abilities, advanced grounded abilities, time and space, fate, and universes/realities. It abided by logic, and was a concept or inevitability that conquered all but not Soft and Wet Go beyond. It really went beyond, beyond logic itself-as it was essentially nothing. Mankind’s natural ability
I think the only "logical" conclusion will be that the last "strongest stand" will be a total 4th wall break, essentially allowing the User to escape/influence their medium (manga). So basically deadpool
@@vatsalsrivastav5195 Jojolands seems to be it, no stand there feels busted or even some managing to break peak. Soft and Wet was already busted at introduction and by the time we realized Tusk evolved, it was already getting crazy. November rain doesn't feel like much.
in the context of the Single Shot Theory, which essentially (roughly, its been a hot minute) posits that even though the manifestation of Tusk was defeated when Johnny was shot, its infinity continued without the physical binds to influence things into creating a stand that could defeat its target (you know, how Tusk always reaches its target but stretched to the extreme), this comes off as even more terrifying
"Calamity" is the basis of the entire Joestar curse from parts 1-6 and it followed them as a metaphysical manifestation, in Wonder of U, to an ALTERNATE REALITY.
Concept of spin that we know about from Steel Ball Run IS some of the Jousuke's soap bubbles. As Rai said, among normal soap bubbles, which can absorb both small and decent-sized objects (e.g. berries and even people), there are also soap bubbles that are made of a thin string, that is spinning rapidly. This rapidly spinning line forms object which shape resembles normal soap bubble. And since this is NOT soap bubble, but spinning thread, those soap bubbles are nothing, but rotation itself. So, yeah Statement that there's no spin in JojoLion is pretty wrong. (sorry for my English)
Funniest thing is alot of the strongest stand contenders might actually lose to silver chariot requiem which I guess makes it the strongest "anti stand" stand or just give it its own category of weirdess. Which goes with the general theme around SCR all things considered.
@@ericsbuds that because the user died during the process of requiem meaning it's complete and someone need to replace to user to project it which is everyone else if it is complete the light behind wouldn't even exist and the cr use ability would be absolute control of spirit and biology
I would argue that D4C: LT cancels out WoU as long as he's inside is barrier. He's kind of the immovable object to WoU's unstoppable force. WoU is misfortune while D4C: LT is a misfortune redirecter. Either way, there is very little to no way D4C: LT is defeating WoU
@@GayForklift Yeah, like whatever misfortune is thrown at D4C:LT will just be thrown into an alternative dimension like in part 7. So the misfortune does happen, but to everyone else than Valentine
Lmao so basically they can't hit each other? WoU attacks can't enter love train and if D4C even gets out of love traij to hit WoU then he would be hit by calamity so basically a staring contest
I haven't read anything past the end of Jolyne but from what I gather from the video is this : WoU would supercede Love Train due to infinite calamity, there could only be a set amount of things that could be redirected untill there was nothing left. WoU beats all but S&W.
the panel at 7:30 is definitley a shueisha coloring error, and the explosion is supposed to just be a cloud of dust/debris shooting out behind solati do along with the rest of the bubbles. the reason that josuke is able to use s&w to blow the two enemies up at the end of the fight is because his bubbles are filled with gasoline and mamezuku throws him a lighter, josuke can't make explosions on his own.
Great points, but I had so many years of powerscaling experience and need to point out the problem that many powerscalers had, even in death battle communities: people often took things way too literally and ended up interpreting characters way more powerfully than they actually are. Theories here presents a lot of reach and cope, in convincing that something is so OP and broken beyond what they actually are. I see this in so many shonen anime fandoms already.
Reading Jojolion didn't make me really realize just how broken S&W and Wonder of you are, I could recognize that wonder if you was pretty broken but still thought stuff like d4c love train would be stronger and Tusk act 4 would be the strongest (yes I think it's stronger than GER), but when you put it into the actual context of the Jojo verse and logic as a concept, S&W go beyond and a Wonder of U above everything. I do think you're doing the right thing because the Jojo fandom as a collective has to realize that GER isn't absolutely anymore because time exists and so does araki evolving as a person with new ideas, which naturally means his writing evolves and changes, so do stands and their context with the world and their strength. The way he uses and defines logic is utterly terrifying and S&W go beyond transcending that should make it definitively THE strongest stand as of part 8
Part 6 was when the stand power creep started to *spiral* (ha ha) out of control, but with Wonder of U and SaWGB, I think we’ve reached the pinnacle of lunacy.
@@shill2920 I don’t see it that way. It doesn’t matter if the next part has different characters. In order for any series to up the ante, it has to introduce characters with even crazier powers. Do you remember when stopping time seemed like the most overpowered ability? And then the series just kept going, progressively introducing new characters with stronger powers in every part after. So the power creep just keeps going up higher and higher. But let’s say part 9 doesn’t end nearly as crazy. On one hand you run the risk of disappointing fans for not being able to live up to the already near-impossible expectations of part 8; on the other hand, even though Josuke/Gappy, isn’t there, he probably still exists, which kind of eliminates all stakes from the plot. It’s the reason why you see so many fan animations putting Giorno in part 6.
The problem with Jojo power scaling is Jojo fights function as a "action sequences", like it base the personality of the user and thier understand of things alot, but there's a gap above (around the time manipulation area) where you're stand becomes completely overpowered that no plays can damage you in any sense. Now the reason Soft and Wet is not fightingly the strongest becomes it lacks protection, it doesn't have the concept of "unbeatable defence" making the strongest stand can be able to get beaten by even Sliver Chariot
I still can't believe how simple of a stand silver chariot is, it's literally just a fast dude with a rapierand the only special ability it had is firing the needle. that being said polnareff and silver chariot are still on my top 5 favorites from the franchise🤣
The best argument that you can make for GER using return to zero on Go Beyond is that it would return Josuke’s intention of shooting the Go Beyond bubble, rather than returning the Go Beyond bubble itself, because if Josuke’s never shot the bubble, then it wouldn’t exist. However, this gets complicated when you consider the fact that the Go Beyond bubble technically never did exist in the first place, even after Josuke shot it, because it’s outside of logic, and the way we’ve seen return to zero work is that it activates right before an attack lands, not before the attack was thrown (King Crimson’s punches were thrown, they just stopped right in front of Giorno), so logically the ability would only activate right before the bubble hit Giorno, not before Josuke shot it. And keep in mind that all of this is assuming that the ability would even activate against something that technically doesn’t exist in the first place. Overall, return to zero probably wouldn’t work against Go Beyond, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Giorno would lose against Josuke, because GER still has GE’s life giving ability, and it probably got even stronger, so it is still a very interesting fight
I don’t know about that, just because it’s outside logic doesn’t mean it’s unbeatable. Giorno don’t even know the extend of his own power, everything just resets to 0 and that will not change unless araki make a canon version of the world over heaven. You simply cannot beat something that negates you endlessly
GER would just abuse his Life giver ability and place a frog infront of Soft and WET GB. Best case Josuke dies and they dodge surviving. Worst Case everyone dies.
Giorno power could just be nothing is able to hurt him it’s just we see it for only a few panels And also ,if the bubble isn’t there,how do you block it? So it’s a 50/50 tbh
Josuke can't aim the Go Beyond bubbles, Go Beyond Bubbles properties as non-existant don'y extend to Josuke or Soft and Wet itself, and they don't even one shot so unless he gets lucky he's getting massacred by all of the top tier, if he's on his own
EXACTLY. I hate how this video acts like all there is to compare is the stands on their own as if they aren’t tied to users. Go beyond is just the perfect way to beat wonder of U specifically
The problem is the range and the bubble moving too slow. Yes it can't be seen but also can't be controlled. It doesn't necessarily one shot ability but it's definitely on the top of the list imo
To my understanding its the bubbles produced by soft and wet go beyond that defy logic not necessarily josuke himself or soft and wet. So in theory, time stop could work against soft and wet and josuke just not the attacks it produces. may be similar to the situation with deigo TW vs johnny
Congrats you've officially made Soft & Wet my favorite JoJo stand. Not because it's insanely strong but because I just think the design of it and it's ability are absolutely awesome✨ also u did a brilliant job of explaining things and I found this video very entertaining. Ur content is fantastic keep up the good work sir :) 👍
I think my only argument for GER still being the strongest is that Go Beyond still has a activation point. Josuke still has to choose to use Go Beyond. GER’s main purpose is to stop that kind of thing from beginning in the first place. “I skip time”, no you don’t. “I use Go Beyond”, no you don’t. That’s the main thing I can think of. That’s not from a passionate perspective that’s just from reading how each ability works and taking what is shown in each part at the value of what Araki is telling us.
@@bowldawg4394 yeah i guess but it is technically not in this reality so if he doesnt have the intent for the action i dont think hed kill him if he doesnt have the intent
@@bowldawg4394 Even with an activation point, it still doesnt exist within the reality. Once gappy shot the bubble it automatically stops existing only thing GER could do is revert gappy's movement but the bubble would still be going towards GER since it doesnt exist
Go beyond seems to "plunder" concepts in my opinion. He took away calamity that was affecting the family. After a while, could be seconds or centuries, calamity is released back into the world without bias. Calamity will be plundered of Toruu's influence (this one for good) going back to a truly unbiased concept. A dual plunder.
That's likely what it is. It """s t e a l s""" concepts from the immediate area. The problem is that, just like with S&W regular, you can't just keep it. It goes back to where it was eventually.
There is actually something left unspoken regarding GER because of how minimally it is featured compared to other super-powerful abilities in the series (which often have multiple chapters dedicated to them, while GER is quite literally there for 1 scene and then gone forever). Technically its ability was also described as "defying logic" by making it so that there is no effect to a cause, and if you go off that then it's pretty much the only outright logic-defying Stand in the series before Go Beyond, so I find that particular comparison hard to make because of how little it was actually featured and never actually explored. But that's probably why it remains such a favored topic of conversation in the fanbase, because it's basically a blank page which is nothing but grounds for speculation.
I do consider Corpse Part stands to also transcend logic in a sense because they are for all intents and purposes miracles. Though for a fact I'd say Tusk, Ball Breaker, and D.4.C. Love Train are because they are miraculous, and by the very way miracles work they are illogical and do not follow the rules of logic or reality so I put Soft and Wet alongside them. But that's my own opinion.
I completely agree with your theory that the corpse parts (and their stand by products) are miraculous and could stand up to Wonder of U. Perhaps because Johnny used TUSK4 and the corpse parts on a product of WOU’s calamity (the curse) and not WOU itself it allowed calamity to take its course and reflect bad luck back onto Johnny “miraculously” ( as the corpse parts have the power to perform miracles)
Here's the thing, while the go-beyond bubbles are certainly "hax-proof" in that, because of their extra-dimensional nature, you can't do anything to the bubble but the bubble can do things to you, no amount of shenanigans will prevent you from getting bubbled short of just, avoiding the bubble, since the bubbled did need yasuho to guide them. But, whats the actual attack potency of the bubbles? They're basically "just" an unblockable gun really. Yeah, a headshot with them will kill pretty much anything that would die to a headshot, but, thats kind of ALL they are. Star platinum can destroy a lot more things, and much more DURABLE things, much faster than S&W, just see the high priestess teeth-breaking scene. Weather report could also straight up just, throw around hurricanes if he wanted to. Regular gold experience could probably just, create a billion lions if Giorno felt like it, especially if arrow-boosted. Gas up Go Beyond all you want, but, its a fairly 'localized' effect. We aren't even sure how 'revert to zero' would interact with go beyond in practice in much the same way that we don't know how king crimson's time skip would interact with time stop. does making the bubble not be fired make it not exist or does it just, exist anyways? heck, would MANDOM make the bubbles be un-fired? We just don't know. in a way it is un-knowable, because these are all abilities that operate entirely outside the bounds of physics as we understand them to such an extent that we would need Araki to answer it. Ultimately it comes down to what DIO said in part six about "strongest stand" in a way. Who would win between Giorno and Josuk8? Its whoever attacks first. Go beyond has no defenses, but also just ignores pretty much every defense. If anything I'm inclined to say that King Crimson of all things can beat Go Beyond because Diavolo could just... use epitath to see which way the bubble would go, and then use time skip pre-emptively to just, *not* be in the trajectory of it, before one-shot'ing Josuke from behind. sure, the bubble probably WOULD invade and still hit him in skipped time if he activated time skip AFTER it was fired because he'd be too slow to get out of the way, but if the bubble passes through points A, B, and C, and he's never in any of those points while the bubble is there, because he knew thats where it would be fired ahead of time, and used time skip to lock that firing trajectory in place and deny josuke the chance to adjust, then yeah he dodges and then scores the kill. Ironic then that King Crimson, used properly, can beat one of the few things that are able to beat the very thing king crimson lost to, but thats just how it goes in JoJos. An ability is only as good as the user is able to apply use it.
@@TheWarlordShogunWould he be able to see that, is the question. Go Beyond's bubbles do not exist, so would his prediction even be able to factor in their existence? I wonder if he'd use Epitaph and just see nothing, before getting bodied by an invisible bubble outta nowhere
Note. In my head cannon I like to scale down characters like these to make them more fun for me to play with. The concepts are certainly fun, but using them as beyond everything in existence powers isn’t fun.
I'd like to point out that Johnny did not "fail" at removing the rock disease from his family. Him removing it was why none of the Joestars, only the Higashikatas had the disease.
Next strongest stand will have powers of nullification. Hear me out on this. If you went against an enemy who can nullify existence on even a remotely small scale, you'd go against some sort of mystical black hole. Some sort of ordinary guy like Yoshikage Kira who was just messed with for too long and who breaks and nullifies all that is good in him. Basicaly Plunder on Steroids and Meth. And of course this adds up to Wonder of You Logic based attack scheme. You'd probably have to have a character who is the exact opposite like creation itself which is chaotic by nature. I am kinda mashing ideas together for possibly even writing a story for my gf and her manga 🤷♂️😄
@@ProjektTaku thank you. In my creation I regularly take inspiration from manga and anime. And this might be the next step for Araki but he will probably pen something really amazing either way.
gappy still has much more room to develop with spin, he was able to to have debatably the most overpowered stand with only the basic level of spin, just imagine his power with lesson 5
@organicelephant5416 just imagine a bubble that defies all natural laws of physics and spins infinitely, the result is a bubble that creates infinite amounts of energy that also deletes everything it touches. Think of a miniature remote controlled version of vanilla ice's stand, cream. It could also make the cells inside whatever it touches spin infinitely.
At the beginning where the meme for Bohemian Rhapsody being the strongest, i actually think it could be considered the strongest, because if you make up something like a God that follows you the user you'd be all powerful technically. And to stop someone making a character that destroys the stand you could also create a character that kills people who try to make one.
I have often wondered if Cream could beat Wonder of U Being basically the same a go beyond bubble when in the void state, basically non existant as its essentially a zero dimensional point, a hole in the universe, beyond logic? Even if calamity tried to act on it would it even do anything when in that state?
It still exists as a "hole", which logically means it leads somewhere. Go Beyond isn't a hole, it's nothing, yet it hits with the power to kill. Cream would still be affected by Calamity, as WoU can control Stand effects to cause Calamities, as seen when it uses Josuk8's bubbles to kill Mamezuku. It could control the Void and place it in such a way that it can't reach Tooru without Vanilla Ice looking around, and the moment his head's exposed, something Stand related would fly into Cream's mouth like the rapier of Silver Chariot and destroy Vanilla Ice's brain, incapacitating him until the sun rises and destroys him.
Vanilla Ice mentioned that the hole leads somewhere, but he doesn’t know where You are wrong when you say the things that go inside the void of cream go non existent
Cream can't delete logic itself, so no. The only stands that could defeat WoU other than S&W GB would be ones that could set a trap for it, like Killer Queen. Because if you ever attack or pursue the Tooru directly, yer screwed, and even if he dies WoU is still coming after you for the rest of your life. The only way to win would be to trick Tooru into a trap that he activates himself.
That video is interesting Like after the video I would say that like GER or Soft and Wet are one of the strongest stands like that is now debateable because GER is "untouchable" and Soft and Wet is apparently just inlogical in universe (or like it can attack with an attack which doesn't exist, I guess) So that would be a really interesting match up Edit: To place my standpoint due to an argument: In my opinion GER will PROBABLY still win because I can't imagine that an protagonist will obliterate someone (in this case with plunder, just removing the brain, heart or skin) or rather the only one I can think of would be Giorno because GER works on it's own (too some extent and not like Star Platinum) But back to the thing of "probably win": GER can nullify any harm too Giorno (so to defeat him you would need to one shot him which is nearly impossible) so the attack of Soft and Wet will hit Giorno but probably won't kill him so he'll win in this situation So only a battle without information about the opponent GER will win but if only Josuke knows about the abilities of GER he is going to win and nothing can change that So to make sure that Josuke wins he would needs to know about every ability of GER and Giorno is not allowed to know anything about Soft and Wet any other thing would probably be a 50/50 situation, I guess? So the conclusion: GER will probably win but it depends how much Josuke knows about GER
@@OGking831 no because the attack doesnt exist, getting rid of the cause does nothing, because it was never anything to begin with, it surpasses logic, which ger uses to activate its ability, ger uses the logic that without cause there is no effect, but go beyond surpasses both.
@@dattos140 this is false because GER manipulates both things at once not just one thing. Therefore to say it's logical would be disingenuous to what it's shown about his ability. In fact soft and wet attacks are in fact in the range GER because it's based on "cause and effect". Btw new Jojo verse are completely bound by time. Compared to the previous universe, GER is transcendental stand that goes beyond time and fate
20:29 to add onto this. Assuming the golden spin represents the natural spin found in the universes laws, then it is limited to the planc length or some similar smallest possible unit of measurment. But Josuke's spin is inifitnite. And it has to be, because the line that makes up the buble has infinite thinnness, which makes it "outside" of the universe because it cannot be represented by anything. Its like having a mathematical anomaly that goes against physical reality/logic(as the video puts it).
Well, this depends on what you mean by most powerful. I don't think S&W:GB can win the most battles, but I think it has the single most potent and unstoppable attack in the series.
This is the best way to put it. Wonder of U has the strongest defense in the series (technically or GER if you prefer) but the strongest offense goes to S&W:GB. "You can't hurt me." versus "You better fucking dodge or that's GG."
I just took this from my note in my phone but i think this can explain everything Soft and Wet: Go Beyond! His bubbles can trap objects, properties, and even concepts, he can release it anytime he wants, he can also make explosive bubles like yoshikage kira's bomb and soft and wet (josefumi) bubbles combined. His line spins so fast they appear as spherical and then turn to zero when they hit infinite spinning meaning it disappears after spinning too fast. So nothing can really beat the stand if its used aggressively (taking hearts of other with the bubble and never giving it back or removing the concept of his enemy's power or his existence itself)
Okay there he is, Tooru. I'm gonna shoot him. Wait a minute, a leaf coming toward my finger?! Theres no way it avoids me from shooting Tooru, like cut my finger, RIGHT? Hahaha
@@johnlucas2838 I mean, if Tusk is literally ''filled up'' with the infite golden rotation energy, doesn't that mean he is technically safe from the Return to Zero.
I must say. This was great to watch. The way you explained everything without leaving out anything, was very good... And since I'm not yet done with part 8 all because I was waiting for the part 9 announcement (didn't want to finish and have no more JoJo to read 😞) I can tell this video was a go finish up part 8 to me. Now I'm fired up not just because of the power but because now I'll understand it once I continue 😅... Nice video... I am obligated to sub because of how well you explain stuff
I just finished part 8 and my only question is that Soft and Wet the stand is not illogical, just his one attack is. It is also stated that he can't really control it either. So wouldn't GER, while being logical, still beat josuke since there is a chance his attack doesnt come out or he doesn't kill with the first shot?
@@victoroliveira3577 yeah most of them caps at large town level (around 7c) even for stand like Star Platinum and Soft & Wet.. I can't think of a stand that actually is able to fight higher-tier characters without hax.
@@victoroliveira3577 yeah, GER is the best example of this since you need to scale to a higher level of infinity or have Causality Manipulation Negation to beat it even if you scale higher than it's measly AP.
@@dangerousdays2052 if giorno was with the part 6 group and were to be attacked then GER would have activated, since Made in Heaven only moved time forward without causing harm to anyone GER didn't have to activate
@@Zer0_.s._ What, was Giorno taking a nap at the time or something? He should have realized there was a problem and fixed it if GER was capable of doing so.
@@dangerousdays2052 GER is a passive ability that not even Giorno knows, it's an automatic ability, giorno can only use the normale Gold Experience powers, GER activates only if Giorno is going to receive any kind of harm
Meanwhile, I'm just sitting over in the corner, learning a bit more about random stands, and finding I am liking Weather Report more and more simply cause of that flying scene in part 6 :V
To summarize and simplify. Jouske's bubbles exist in this reality that you and I are in. And so if one of his bubbles comes in contact with the paper page containing Wonder of U. That ruins the page. That destroys Wonder of U. 17:42 In my example a real life bubble would definitely have the same effect on GR or any characters in the series. In the multitudes of copies purchased or sold of this series. Someone somewhere has ruined their book with some soda accident or SOMETHING else influenced by bubbles. So by that logic Go Beyond beats itself. I base this off Grant Morrison's concepts of 5th dimensional beings in their writings.
Summing up the strongest stands SCR: the good ok switcharoo GER: it’s rewind time D4C:LT: this wall tastes like alternate dimensions MIH: i am speed TA4: the refrigerator is *COMING FOR YOU* WOU: stubbing your toe never hit the same Go Beyond: you dropped all of the goddamn soap TWOH: fuck your ability, I’m goddamn Jesus Christ
Soft & Wet Go Beyond is a walking win button. As long as the concept of "winning" exists, it will win. It's literally the power of miracles as an illogical event. Josuke could shoot himself with it and the shot would travel back to damage the adversary.
@@Doflaminguard bro did you see pucci during part 6? I don’t think he cares about walking lmao also made in heaven DOES control gravity still so pucci could just levitate, it could also be used to accelerate aging as shown earlier in part 6 when a ladies nails grew iirc
What haraki loves : infinity, spin, good and bad, characters having the ability to dismember for some reason, make powerscalers want to jump out a window.
Wait a second. Star Platinum and Soft and Wet are both powerful Stands used by talented users, and both get a resolve boost evolution that lets them unlock a sort of dormant ability, catapulting them into the status of Most Powerful Stand in existence. Not to mention that Jotaro is sort of part of the Josuke fusion as Alt Universe Kira is also part Jotaro… Does that mean Soft and Wet Go Beyond is the Alt Universe version of Star Platinum The World?
Here's how it would go down: Go Beyond launches a bubble towards GER. GER's fate is to be hit/damaged by the bubble. Go Beyond never launched the bubble. That's my thought process.
@@METAsMETAs ok cool. The thing is tho: GER is fated to take damage correct? Or am I wrong, and does the bubble do no damage to GER? if it deals damage, it is fated to happen, and GER can reverse the damage.
Tusk act 4 didn't exactly get reflected, the curse just got transfered to johnny. Thus TA4 changed its course to the curse, which is Johnny and it killed him before reaching the curse. What i mean by this is that TA4 can indeed break WOU, regardless if the calamities got to johnny first.
See, the problem I have with this is that from my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) Josuke's "nothing" bubbles are still only about as fast as his regular bubbles, and they're not just an instakill unless they hit a vital area. So, literally any stand that could outspeed that (which is most stands high on the list: MiH, GER, Tusk Act 4, Star Platinum, The World, etc.) could kill him before the bubble could do anything. Especially DIO could likely just ignore the damage caused by the bubble (because he's a fucking vamprie) and go straight for him, even if the bubble still works in timestop. It seems like Go Beyond is an ability that's specifically made to counter Wonder of U and wouldn't actually be that strong in a fight against an opponent who has massive offensive capability instead of only massive defensive capability.
@@johnrenwelmauro2387 So? "Strongest attack" does not mean "strongest stand." And actually, it's not even really the strongest attack. It probably has destructive power on par with something like Star Platinum's punches. Basically all it does is carve out a small hole in someone when it hits. Tusk Act 4 would actually be way stronger in terms of power alone. The only thing that makes it really strong within its part is the fact that it can specifically bypass Wonder of U's ability.
So an unintentional and untrained manifestation of spin is stronger than a trained almost perfect manifestation of spin that went beyond being a stand and bypassed dimensions and luck while being incomplete I'm talking about Ball Breaker, it wasn't even a perfect spin and yet it bypassed love train easier than act 4
@@blobofmeatwhoexist8460 it doesn't depend, act 3 is literally better in every way and I wasn't talking about Tusk to begin with I was talking about Ball Breaker, which is very similar to Tusk but managed to show it was similar or stronger while being imperfect, meaning there was much mire to be achieved
Remember that the spin that gappy uses and the one that jhonny has are totally different, go beyond uses the "explosive spin" and is a fusion between SaW bubbles and KQ explosions (this is explained in chapter 105)
To simplify Go Beyond it's an ability that transcends logic itself whereas every other Stand ability in all of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure operates under some kind of logic, essentially Go Beyond wins against every other Stand because it just does, it's literally that old King Crimson meme of "it just works" it just wins.
Operating beyond logic means the user, a logic and reality based being, won’t be able to influence it once the attack is initiated. Otherwise it is bound by reality to at least a certain degree and therefore not unbeatable. But if the user can’t control it, then it again is not unbeatable. So he really doesn’t just auto win. Against a lot of opponents really, unless something assists with aiming like paisley park.
@@Rl55322 I'm pretty sure its implied that Josuke only needed Paisley Park to help aim because he's never deliberately used Go Beyond before and isn't practiced enough to aim well on his own and not that Josuke can't aim it on his own at all
And before anybody asks, yes he does beat the world over heaven, my editor forgot to put it in the video!!!!
HE STILL OPERATES UNDER LOGIC!!!!
Over all (including Non-Canon), S&W: Go Beyond would probably still not be able to defeat the Beyond Users from Jorge Joestar seeing that those guys get their Power from Meta-Fictional Writer who is above the whole JoJo Multiverse and views it as their own Fiction (being an infinite level Higher than Josuke), with there being statments that "The Only Thing that could beat a Beyond User is a Beyond User" (albeit this could be in question, due to Jorge Joestar coming out before S&W GB)
So, DIO is stronger than Josuke but not with The World Over Heaven.
@@LunarianRhapsody one day I will cover that book and it’s sins
Imma be honest: you kinda just assumed a ton of stuff here. For example: you just assumed that part 8 killer queen scales to part 4 killer queen and thereby is ftl. However, if that isnt true then i dont think p8 kq has any ftl feats itself.
Also, didnt tooru tank multiple go beyond bubbles and was still able to nearly perform a rokakaka exchange? Wouldnt that thereby imply that the explosions of the bubbles are really not that strong and therefore Dio over heaven could just heal after he gets hit?
Thank you for answering that question. I was still wondering about that.
Also, isnt go beyond technically a paradox? Since not having logic is the logic of how the stand works?
Edit: also, how would the bubbles being 5th dimensional give them immesurable speed? By that logic, king crimson and ger should be at immesurable speed.
If Wonder Of U's ability boils down to "Fuck off", Go Beyond boils down to "Nah"
U just described part 8
omfg exactly
GER : no u
@@magnumbreakz How is ger suppose to revert something that doesn't exist
@@tomeoe3794 it doesn’t, so it does anyway
The strongest stands in Jojo in a nutshell:
- "Like I said, it didn't happen"
- Fingernails
- Weaponized freak accidents
- "Soap bubbles aren't real, they can't hurt you"
wonder of u = "final destination"
“Soap bubbles aren’t real, they can hurt you”*
@@pastafrolla625 "weaponized freak accidents" is wonder of u
Who is like I said it never happened
@@Father-Pucci Golden Exp Req
So basically Soft and Wet Go beyond is just "This sign can't stop me cause i can't read."
LMAOOOOOOOOOO
Bro I understand this more than the video
Thank you for commenting this, it gave me the ability to understand the video's explanation
Bruuh😂😂
@@METAsMETAsmore like I am the perfect book that was never written , but still exists...lol
We've gone from Sun breathing powers to punching spirits to delving into the concepts of existence itself. What an amazing work of fiction.
@@organicelephant5416dragon ball and Naruto have left the chat crying
@Organic Elephant Get Attack on Titan out of that list. That ending was horrible.
@Organic Elephant yeah the ending wasn’t the best but the rest makes up for it by a longshot and its one of my favourite anime ever
@@SuperNeos2 nothing is wrong with the ending you just went in the last chapter with different expectations
@@SuperNeos2 it’s kind of the same as breaking bad in my eyes, the show was so good that no matter what they did, the ending was going to “suck” just because you can’t really end a show well when it’s already had it’s best moments
Tooru: Nothing can kill me
Josuke: Exactly
nothing=still logic
Josuke: and i am not logic
@@chenxiangweimoe then Josuke would say “Yes’nt”
@@chenxiangweimoe nothing= still logic
josuke: my bubbles speeds inifinitely till become zero, so is at the same time infinite and also no speed, but those two can't exist at the same time, you can't have infinite speed/acceleration at the same time that you have 0 of them, breaking the logic
@@fakeletobr730
So Soft and Wet cheats the system by being two concepts at the same time, ruling out logic because finite can’t be infinite:
Spin Technique + Killer Queen + Soft & Wet = Soft & Wet: Go Beyond
Go beyond is so powerful because it makes the sentence "nothing can kill me" into a literal sense, the bubble becomes nothing, therefore it can kill you.
No it can't kakyoin beats him🗣️
@@ohhellwhereami2574because you can’t deflect emerald splash
@ultimazilla9814do you mean the 20 meter emerald splash the same attack that stopped dio and is the conceptual foundation for the jojo macro verse
"Just because a stand says no stand can beat it doesn't mean they mean it." - Josuke Higashikata probably.
We gotta have jjba 1-6 vs 7-8
A certain seigi no mikata approved this sattey
@@snailthelostcow63 ah yes, Dio died when he was...........wait
You're getting a call Doppio
Which one 🤔
Wonder of U existing in all Jojo universes really makes DIO's loss to Jotaro make much more sense. Having your head explode from your Stand's leg being punched is an example of calamity if I've ever heard one.
Nah, Dio's left side is weak according to his dialogue with Hol Horse somewhere in part 3, Dio attacks Jotaro with his right leg but Jotaro managed to block it so Dio uses his left leg instead but got Ora'd by Star Platinum and explode.
Dio gave his left leg bone to Pucci if i remember correctly
That's why he was so vulnerable there
Dio vs Jotaro was just Dio throwing the fight for 9 minutes despite having every possible edge.
@@Darth_Bateman How was Dio "throwing the fight"? Yeah Jotaro outwitted him but Dio never made any exceptionally stupid decisions, he was as careful as he possibly could have been.
@@saucevc8353 "i am gonna laugh for 5 seconds and say am op asf and i am gonna go get a road roller which will waste most of my time and allow to mc to stop right at the moment cause am big brainer and am also gonna not count the fact THAT HIS STAND IS STILL AROUND THE SAME STR AND SPEED AS MINE SO MY BODY WILL STILL GET DESTROYED BY IT" and lets not forget the fact that it would take one punch to finish him off one proper punch and its over but NOOO he wanted to wait for him to see if he can time stop bro has the same curiosity as me in kindergarden "will this long thing bite me and might kill me LETS FIND OUT"
It just occurred to me with Araki’s statement: “Defeating him (WOU) might be *beyond* hope.”
Soft and Wet Go *Beyond*
…How did I miss that for so long?
Brooooooooo that's so clever xD
He is such a troll lol
He keeps getting away from it!
@@MIDO44444 Araki running on that Among Us IQ
@@lorekeeper685 He's just like Gojo-sensei
It's moments like this that I remember why "bizarre" is in the title of JJBA. The (debatably) strongest stand in the entire series' primary ability is predicated on bubbles.
made out of strings mind you.
That means Ceasar stand would be crazy strong then!
@@victoroliveira3577 bubbles that can predict the future/get a lay of the land and move accordingly. Also can show images via bubble, similar to a crystal ball.
@@ProjektTaku now it doesn't sound that strong
Just highly useful
@@victoroliveira3577 well it'd have to be similar to hermit purple so I think making it useful but not super strong is the way to go, plus it makes it more interesting.
To make it easier for everyone, soft and wet removes existing laws and concepts in an area and stores them for later release. Go Beyond does the same thing, but instead of removing and storing, it outright deletes them from pure existence. It’s power is to delete things like curses, that the Jojo universe considers inescapable law.
Wrong. Go beyond bubbles bypass curses because they don't exist
@@HasHollow and destroy it
what curses
So basically he's literally the eraser of JoJo
So basically, Go Beyond is a bubble that ignores all logic?
i love how we went from breathing techniques to line spinning that transcends reality
Doesn't transcend reality it's exists solely on its own
Akira's power scale is probably "The weirder and more confusing it is, the less likely it is to be defeated in actual combat". Which would be true
Name's araki tho💀
@@PhoePhoeLovesAke details
@@fabianp.2986 the creator of jojo's is called araki not akira 💀
@@PhoePhoeLovesAke same difference
@@fabianp.2986 tf you mean same difference that's like saying James and Jake are the same thing
Y'know, I feel like, with all the craziness of part 8, part 9 will almost certainly have to take a step back and downscale power to something manageable. Something a little less... huge, if that makes sense.
I honestly doubt that. If anything, araki will probably make an even more powerful stand then any we have ever seen just because
MADE IN OHIO IS REAL
I feel like that was the idea for first half of DiU, most of the stands in the firdt half were weak as hell however used relatively smartly (Exceptions are The Hand and Crazy Diamond), however at 2nd half, yeah, it just goes crazy
Like part 4 did, it was still cool but jotaro scaled above all the characters there
Idk. Technically speaking Araki already scaled down the direct stakes in part 8 when compared to part 9, so if Araki follows a pattern that means that the direct scale would be so minuscule but the underlying impact would be astronomical. Which… now that I say it has a lot of paradoxical problems off the bat so I don’t wanna bother trying to make predictions based on your scenario.
Wonder of You ability is saying "Fuck off" in the most aggressive way
And S&W Go beyond ability is "No" in the most unpredictable way
Ger: my line bud
Props to Araki for giving us a means to keep our stuff in Ohio while simultaneously dealing with the eldritch horrors.
Agreed
Ok
BEYOND OHIO
BEYOND OHIO
@@yokuutsu9097 so that’s what “go beyond” meant
God, I love the concept of taking away an aspect of an object, it was so versatile and it made every fight more interesting and unpredictable. Even if it is not used a lot later in the part, it doesn't change the fact that Soft & Wet is one of the most interesting and most powetful stand in the series. I freaking love it.
po"wet"ful
it’s so close to (regular) Gold Experience as becoming my favorite stand
It was too broken thats why araki stopped using it I'm sure, should have introduced it with more limitations
Taking away some things is so useful, both in combat and out.
You could take away friction from a bowling ball so it could roll with insane speeds
You could take away the heat from a glass if you want a cold glass of water, or take away cold from a pot to make water boil quicker.
You can do things like that, all the way up to taking away AIR FROM SOMEONE'S LUNGS, TAKING AWAY SOMEONE'S CONCEPT OF PAIN, TAKING AWAY SOMEONE'S SOUL.
You would be a God of gods.
Likely, I would use it for mundane tasks, because I'm not a murderous psychopath.
Enter kevdog
0 diff
To sum it up, I'd say S&W Go Beyond is the strongest 'attack' but not the strongest stand. It's an attack that can be summed up as the strongest that we've seen in all of jojo but I believe a few stands would be capable of killing Josuke before he even uses it or while he's attempting to use it.
As it is beyond logic and dose not exist it can not be spread blitz like tusk is relleated to gravity and is beyond time and fate
@Joseph Rogers the go beyond bubble is just basicly a beam, you have to aim it and hit someone with it, if you can't do that then it's useless. People like Pucci or anyone that can attack you instantly will win against go beyond
S&W Go Beyond is passive so ur point won't matter anyway
@Yasuhoismine it isn't, he didn't know it existed till he found out about it and unintentionally activated it, it isn't passive and he had to control it
@@Nicholasivanbabic He just need to awaken it. and if it is or not it won't even matter anyway cause gappy can just make multiple go beyond bubbles or make a big one to shield himself.
When it comes to the idea of strongest stands I've come to accept what Dio told pucci when explaining survivor. There isn't one because the stand power itself is subjective to the user and how it's implemented. Some good examples of the "strongest stands" that have huge limitations based on the users own capabilities are numerous. The hand, thoth, Purple Haze and the list goes on and on. Power In Jojo is such a complicated thing because a stand is limited to the user. For example a superspeed stand would be pointless on a person who can't walk unless they had the acumen to overcome this. It's such an interesting power system when you take the time to look at it
Was literally just thinking this. Go Beyond is kind of just a glorified beam when you think about it. It still has to be manually aimed and fired at a target. Any stand that is simply moving faster than it (Made in Heaven) or could find a way to disorient Josuke enough to fuck up his shot (perhaps something like Wekapipo's steel ball technique) could render him useless. Even a quick enough kill in time stop before he fires it off could counter him.
I feel like the aim of this video is "Well S&WGB > WoU, therefore S&WGB > everything else" and that's just not correct. The reason that WoU is so strong IS because he is an innate counter to any attack (strongest defense is the strongest offense.) It's not just because Araki said so. S&WGB was pretty much designed just to counter WoU, which is part of the reason why I kind of hate it being introduced.
@@nicklemay8056 yeah and when it hits you it doesn't even kill you unless it's a vital area. i'd say go beyond has the highest scaling in the series in terms of overwriting other hax abilities, but that doesn't mean it wins every fight. i'm curious to see how it will be balanced if josuke is in part 9. hopefully we'll get to see him use plunder more cuz it was so under-explored. i don't want him to just death beam things and then lose if that doesn't work.
@@nicklemay8056 my editor took this part of the video out by accident, but one of the arguments I had at the very end of the video is the bubble would literally be transcending everything so it would move in time stop time skip and really anything it quite literally doesn’t care about vs arguments because it’s “ illogical“
@@METAsMETAs That's fair but I feel like we haven't seen enough of that to like prove it as fact. Wish we had more of Go Beyond instead of just like 10 chapters, or at least a better explanation of how it works.
@@METAsMETAs The thing with Time Erase is, that it just erases everything besides the user. If the projectile that Go beyond creates is part of the universe, that would mostlikley mean that it’ll be erased just like he rest of the universe. If not then I have no idea what would happen as nobody ever was inside time erase.
I can't wait to see how Araki will go beyond this with new stand powers in part 9.
I see what you did there
The only power up that can trump S&W is just a straight up stand that interacts with the real world
A stand that needs to fight in order to fight, yet can't be defeated if it fights.
As in, as long as the stand/user isn't engaged in combat, it's an easy kill. As soon as it does, it will throw loads of plot armor into the enemies face.
@@fabianp.2986 sounds good but it is more or less similar to WoU
@@mihailopopovic4759 WoU can't activate on its own. It has to be attacked first. With this variation, the user must be aware they're in a tight spot/endangered or raise their fists and strike first.
Can’t wait to see November Rain Go Beyond The World Requiem Over Heaven Act 5
+ The World and Knuckles
@@DrTako-wk7zj what’s Knuckles?
Sonic 3 and Knuckles
I think araki would name it like November rain Illusion 1, like the title of the November rain album
Devil May Cry DLC
Soft and wet by itself is already absurdly strong even without go beyond. One way it can be used which i think they never do in the manga is he can steal the electricity or conductivity from a person making their brain no longer able to function since it can no longer fire synapses telling the body what to do so your heart stops beating, no breathing, etc.
It was mentioned in the video though. "It can literally steal the brainwaves of a person" I think it was mentioned like this.
he's literally a long range whitesnake lmao
so it's kinda the same as ger with more
He can’t use plunder anymore he got the technique stolen by daiya
@@gogetablueballs eh not exactly since it aint stealing and also i feel like josuke just didnt do that was dumb so it might mean that it requires something more or more complex property is harder to steal or smth
Hypothetically speaking, since the bubbles exist outside of reality, that means that even The World Over Heaven might not be able to rewrite then since he can only rewrite reality. But once again, this is hypothetically speaking.
It's explained in the game that The World Over Heaven needs to punch or hit something to rewrite it, just plunder his hands
@@riddlerthediddler4392 Man here's the thing, how can TWOH punch nothing, it'll hit nothing, it can't be rewrote if there's nothing to punch in the first place, it's nothing yet everything at the same time, so wtf am I talking about I actually don't even understand now, Alright nvm, basically TWOH can't rewrite the bubble because the bubble never existed in that reality in the first page, it's like the person who was shot from the bubble was shot from the person playing that game and it somehow hits.
@@riddlerthediddler4392 it could now operate in a way where he doesnt need to punch or hit something when he absorbed the corpse part i think i still dont think it van affect soft and wet bubble
I can just imagine dio bringing all the joestars to his realm and then josuke just Murders him right away
If the bubbles exist outside of reality then they aren't real. This actually can't make sense. Araki fucked up.
Imagine getting a stand, and being like “cool so this gives me magic powers?” But than you get something like beach boy but than theres people getting time manipulation, power of calamity, moving between dimensions, simulating infinite deaths on your enemy, and be able to create infinity like tf are you gonna do in that world at that point
Ay, beach boy is cool tho
Beach boy is a decent stand. Cheap trick on the other hand....
Just a correction: I believe Josuke is actually Kira's body with Josefumi parts, because if you pay attention to the way the new Rokkakaka works, that's the only possible scenario. It would also explain how Josuke awoke wearing Kira's hat and how Kira's clothes are a perfect match for him.
That is actually pertty good thorey but
They letrally found kira's body and identfied him as kira and he even lost his ball to josuke 😂😂😂
Well kinda spoilers here from the manga what baisicly happened is because if a fruit josefumi and kira merged into a brand new being eith no memories and the parts that didnt need cause kira was casually at the verge of death so josefumi tried to feed him the fruit that i dont remember its name but it works on equal exchange and when tried to do that the ground like sifted cause of an earthquake and they fell in so the equal exchange that hapenned was to basically a brand new being to be created thats why josuke has 4 balls and etc. ( corection its later revealed that ussing his stand power josefumi tried to replicate the fruit but it ended up being a more powerl full one that when the user eats it the personal he touches they switch their parts like for example if someone doesnt have am arm and eats that fruit and touches a person then he is gonna transfer the other person's arm to him but the other person would lose their arm. So when the ground shifted josefumi touched the in verge of death kira and they switched so many body parts that created a new human being that was half kira and half josefumi)
So in layman's terms:
GER tells you "Not funny, didn't happen."
But Soft and Wet Go Beyond says "Yes it did happen, and it's hilarious."
More like, "Your right, nothing did happen, except it did."
It both happened and didnt happen.
I think wonder if u can beat GER
@@kyeda Where is it stated ger can nullify intent? Diavolo DEFINITLY still wanted to kill giorno, he was just freaked out, so I don't think ger can do that.
Also, im not arguing that ger couldn't beat josuke, he could, josuke might not even HIT ger or giorno, since he can't aim go beyond's bubble, I'm just arguing, that if for whatever reason, ger LET him use go beyond, no one, not even josuke or ger, could stop the bubble.
Yes S&W:GB is a troll
@@dattos140 The main issue Go Beyond would run into is that the source of whatever causes Giorno to die would get reset back to a state where it wouldn’t, like I have basically zero doubt that Josuke even attempting to aim his bubble would trigger GER into removing the action, because that’s the inciting insider which would’ve led to Giorno dying…
There has been a recurring power scaling pattern I’ve noticed in jojo, and it’s that in every part an entity would always surpass the power of the previous part. Wether in one situation or another. (Spoiler warning)
-Phantom Blood is the base, and it’s strongest powers consisted of Hamon and Vampiric powers.
-Battle Tendency’s strongest power had to be the ultimate life form Kars, where he had the capacity to surpass the abilities of Part 1
-Stardust Crusaders’ strongest power was Time stopping, which would likely beat Kars because all life exists in the domain of time. Time reigns over it.
-Diamond is Unbreakable’s strongest power was temporarily Bites the dust. Even though the Motion gang were able to beat Kira, if it weren’t for hayato’s plan then part 4 would end in a tragedy where the time loops would continue forever. Only by that point , we realize that fate transcends time.
-Golden Wind revolves around the powers of fate, and the strongest stands there were GER followed by King Crimson. Even though one can escape their current situation, your fate is always inevitable in the end. (Example is the infinite death loop) This concludes Fate can be one of the strongest forces out there.
-Stone Ocean had Pucci wielding a very strong stand being Made in heaven. Even though GER can be considered stronger than MIH in a 1v1, fate can only go so far as it can sometimes be abstract. Pucci was able to reset the original universe due to his control of doing so, he had the power to speed up and restart the universe due to his infinite speed. He did die to Emporio, which was his fate so fate is still on par I guess, yet fate is doing it’s work in the domain of a universe.
-Steel Ball Run had very powerful abilities, those being the infinite rotation and D4C’s complicated ability regarding alternate universes. D4C had control over many universes, and he could switch in and out of any universe he wanted. But, he was defeated because the infinite rotation allowed an entity to constantly spin without obstruction, essentially spinning infinitely. That infinity followed valentine to multiple universes and sealed his fate.
-Jojolion’s strongest powers were the Wonder of U’s calamity and Soft and Wet Go beyond. Wonder of U now wasn’t just a stand, it was a concept that was godlike. As shown by the video it absolutely can transcend, grounded abilities, advanced grounded abilities, time and space, fate, and universes/realities. It abided by logic, and was a concept or inevitability that conquered all but not Soft and Wet Go beyond. It really went beyond, beyond logic itself-as it was essentially nothing.
Mankind’s natural ability
Wouldn't it be interesting if araki made a part where the stands are just overall weaker.
Making a more grounded down part
I think the only "logical" conclusion will be that the last "strongest stand" will be a total 4th wall break, essentially allowing the User to escape/influence their medium (manga).
So basically deadpool
@lorddarki9936 and yet they wouldn't as well, they would just still exist in the manga only we are beyond the standsn
@@theenderdestruction2362imagine if araki went "fuck it" made the stand as one of those pop-up book thing
@@vatsalsrivastav5195 Jojolands seems to be it, no stand there feels busted or even some managing to break peak.
Soft and Wet was already busted at introduction and by the time we realized Tusk evolved, it was already getting crazy.
November rain doesn't feel like much.
This video was honestly worth the wait Metas. Hope you have a good December.
in the context of the Single Shot Theory, which essentially (roughly, its been a hot minute) posits that even though the manifestation of Tusk was defeated when Johnny was shot, its infinity continued without the physical binds to influence things into creating a stand that could defeat its target (you know, how Tusk always reaches its target but stretched to the extreme), this comes off as even more terrifying
I love how JoJo went from "I can breathe well and punch like a star" to "i am worthy, my power will be present until the end of the universe"
"Calamity" is the basis of the entire Joestar curse from parts 1-6 and it followed them as a metaphysical manifestation, in Wonder of U, to an ALTERNATE REALITY.
I don't think so
No. Araki made it up to not be criticized as a writer. It's dumb and part 8 is dumb
@@leargamma4912part 8 is not all bad some bits of it is peak jojo imo
Trying to explain jojolion is just type of conversation that's ends with ,,and why are you screeming at me"
LMAO
Concept of spin that we know about from Steel Ball Run IS some of the Jousuke's soap bubbles. As Rai said, among normal soap bubbles, which can absorb both small and decent-sized objects (e.g. berries and even people), there are also soap bubbles that are made of a thin string, that is spinning rapidly. This rapidly spinning line forms object which shape resembles normal soap bubble. And since this is NOT soap bubble, but spinning thread, those soap bubbles are nothing, but rotation itself. So, yeah Statement that there's no spin in JojoLion is pretty wrong. (sorry for my English)
Funniest thing is alot of the strongest stand contenders might actually lose to silver chariot requiem which I guess makes it the strongest "anti stand" stand or just give it its own category of weirdess. Which goes with the general theme around SCR all things considered.
Now THAT is a good debate. Soft and wet: go bullshit vs silver chariot requiem.
unless you realize to punch the light behind your head... what?! lmao :)
@@ericsbuds im pretty sure that would kill you
@@ericsbuds that because the user died during the process of requiem meaning it's complete and someone need to replace to user to project it which is everyone else if it is complete the light behind wouldn't even exist and the cr use ability would be absolute control of spirit and biology
@@ericsbuds If you punch the light you fucking die
I would argue that D4C: LT cancels out WoU as long as he's inside is barrier. He's kind of the immovable object to WoU's unstoppable force. WoU is misfortune while D4C: LT is a misfortune redirecter. Either way, there is very little to no way D4C: LT is defeating WoU
So basically they both neither win or lose they’d just stand there menacingly
@@GayForklift Yeah, like whatever misfortune is thrown at D4C:LT will just be thrown into an alternative dimension like in part 7. So the misfortune does happen, but to everyone else than Valentine
Lmao so basically they can't hit each other? WoU attacks can't enter love train and if D4C even gets out of love traij to hit WoU then he would be hit by calamity so basically a staring contest
I haven't read anything past the end of Jolyne but from what I gather from the video is this : WoU would supercede Love Train due to infinite calamity, there could only be a set amount of things that could be redirected untill there was nothing left. WoU beats all but S&W.
and tusk act 4 could bypass the misfortune but not the calamity, weird but johnny should have tried harder.
the panel at 7:30 is definitley a shueisha coloring error, and the explosion is supposed to just be a cloud of dust/debris shooting out behind solati do along with the rest of the bubbles. the reason that josuke is able to use s&w to blow the two enemies up at the end of the fight is because his bubbles are filled with gasoline and mamezuku throws him a lighter, josuke can't make explosions on his own.
thanks
but kira could.
The official colouring of Jojolion is awful
@@deuce5546 soft and wets coloring is great tho (although would've preferred it having crazy diamond colors).
Not just that, CD was stated by Josuke to be able to fight at a speed of 300Km/h, not light speed. The scale this guy uses is terribly off.
Great points, but I had so many years of powerscaling experience and need to point out the problem that many powerscalers had, even in death battle communities: people often took things way too literally and ended up interpreting characters way more powerfully than they actually are. Theories here presents a lot of reach and cope, in convincing that something is so OP and broken beyond what they actually are. I see this in so many shonen anime fandoms already.
Most sane powerscaler right here
"many years of power scaling experience"
Im feel bad to say this but
*touch grass bro*
@@tuppiee1752 you realize powerscalling is a passive thing right? That's basically like saying touch grass to a person who drinks water.
Jjbas strongest stands:
"Nah that didn't happen"
"Nail guns"
"Ah, it's my lucky day"
"Weaponized accidents"
"Bubbles don't exist"
"introvert with explosives"
"Haha, horse speedy boy goes brrr"
Reading Jojolion didn't make me really realize just how broken S&W and Wonder of you are, I could recognize that wonder if you was pretty broken but still thought stuff like d4c love train would be stronger and Tusk act 4 would be the strongest (yes I think it's stronger than GER), but when you put it into the actual context of the Jojo verse and logic as a concept, S&W go beyond and a Wonder of U above everything. I do think you're doing the right thing because the Jojo fandom as a collective has to realize that GER isn't absolutely anymore because time exists and so does araki evolving as a person with new ideas, which naturally means his writing evolves and changes, so do stands and their context with the world and their strength.
The way he uses and defines logic is utterly terrifying and S&W go beyond transcending that should make it definitively THE strongest stand as of part 8
GER slaps up every stand
@@Lando.Comicsindeed
@@Lando.Comics Me when I haven't watched the video
@@_Rndom me when his points are all shit:
got one part of that wrong, araki doesnt age
i have to have huge respect to this video, as it completely explains how stands and the times are.
Part 6 was when the stand power creep started to *spiral* (ha ha) out of control, but with Wonder of U and SaWGB, I think we’ve reached the pinnacle of lunacy.
it’s funny that he started the reboot universe partially to fix the power creep and now here we are again xD
JoJo's Overpowered Adventures
Ngl i'd rather have a stand that's bizarre but interesting and balanced instead of an overpowered god level stand.
@@victorjun2421 I kinda like the really busted and bizarre stands
Power creep isnt too much of a problem in jojos because theres new characters every part, so Araki has the freedom to go fucking crazy
@@shill2920 I don’t see it that way. It doesn’t matter if the next part has different characters. In order for any series to up the ante, it has to introduce characters with even crazier powers. Do you remember when stopping time seemed like the most overpowered ability? And then the series just kept going, progressively introducing new characters with stronger powers in every part after. So the power creep just keeps going up higher and higher.
But let’s say part 9 doesn’t end nearly as crazy. On one hand you run the risk of disappointing fans for not being able to live up to the already near-impossible expectations of part 8; on the other hand, even though Josuke/Gappy, isn’t there, he probably still exists, which kind of eliminates all stakes from the plot. It’s the reason why you see so many fan animations putting Giorno in part 6.
The problem with Jojo power scaling is Jojo fights function as a "action sequences", like it base the personality of the user and thier understand of things alot, but there's a gap above (around the time manipulation area) where you're stand becomes completely overpowered that no plays can damage you in any sense.
Now the reason Soft and Wet is not fightingly the strongest becomes it lacks protection, it doesn't have the concept of "unbeatable defence" making the strongest stand can be able to get beaten by even Sliver Chariot
True but since his bubbles don’t exist there speed can’t be scaled so theoretically he is really hard to beat
I still can't believe how simple of a stand silver chariot is, it's literally just a fast dude with a rapierand the only special ability it had is firing the needle. that being said polnareff and silver chariot are still on my top 5 favorites from the franchise🤣
@@flapjackpancake5486 don't forget the mirages and armor shedding for even *more* speed
@@glassofwater281 the ability that was used like once lol
@@morgboat744 lol yeah. I wish it was used more
The best argument that you can make for GER using return to zero on Go Beyond is that it would return Josuke’s intention of shooting the Go Beyond bubble, rather than returning the Go Beyond bubble itself, because if Josuke’s never shot the bubble, then it wouldn’t exist. However, this gets complicated when you consider the fact that the Go Beyond bubble technically never did exist in the first place, even after Josuke shot it, because it’s outside of logic, and the way we’ve seen return to zero work is that it activates right before an attack lands, not before the attack was thrown (King Crimson’s punches were thrown, they just stopped right in front of Giorno), so logically the ability would only activate right before the bubble hit Giorno, not before Josuke shot it. And keep in mind that all of this is assuming that the ability would even activate against something that technically doesn’t exist in the first place. Overall, return to zero probably wouldn’t work against Go Beyond, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Giorno would lose against Josuke, because GER still has GE’s life giving ability, and it probably got even stronger, so it is still a very interesting fight
Its an actual fight where Giorno will actually have to fight for his life.
I don’t know about that, just because it’s outside logic doesn’t mean it’s unbeatable. Giorno don’t even know the extend of his own power, everything just resets to 0 and that will not change unless araki make a canon version of the world over heaven. You simply cannot beat something that negates you endlessly
GER would just abuse his Life giver ability and place a frog infront of Soft and WET GB.
Best case Josuke dies and they dodge surviving.
Worst Case everyone dies.
Giorno power could just be nothing is able to hurt him it’s just we see it for only a few panels
And also ,if the bubble isn’t there,how do you block it?
So it’s a 50/50 tbh
@@cobylin9192funny part, you don't block it
10:24 you could say that Gyro and Johnny were the natural manifestation of the "disaaster" that eventually effected D4C and Valentine.
Josuke can't aim the Go Beyond bubbles, Go Beyond Bubbles properties as non-existant don'y extend to Josuke or Soft and Wet itself, and they don't even one shot
so unless he gets lucky he's getting massacred by all of the top tier, if he's on his own
EXACTLY. I hate how this video acts like all there is to compare is the stands on their own as if they aren’t tied to users. Go beyond is just the perfect way to beat wonder of U specifically
@@jackthekoro1102yeah hes overhyped
The problem is the range and the bubble moving too slow. Yes it can't be seen but also can't be controlled. It doesn't necessarily one shot ability but it's definitely on the top of the list imo
Appreciate the Nujabes in the Background, much love
To my understanding its the bubbles produced by soft and wet go beyond that defy logic not necessarily josuke himself or soft and wet. So in theory, time stop could work against soft and wet and josuke just not the attacks it produces. may be similar to the situation with deigo TW vs johnny
Congrats you've officially made Soft & Wet my favorite JoJo stand. Not because it's insanely strong but because I just think the design of it and it's ability are absolutely awesome✨ also u did a brilliant job of explaining things and I found this video very entertaining. Ur content is fantastic keep up the good work sir :) 👍
I think my only argument for GER still being the strongest is that Go Beyond still has a activation point. Josuke still has to choose to use Go Beyond. GER’s main purpose is to stop that kind of thing from beginning in the first place. “I skip time”, no you don’t. “I use Go Beyond”, no you don’t. That’s the main thing I can think of. That’s not from a passionate perspective that’s just from reading how each ability works and taking what is shown in each part at the value of what Araki is telling us.
I think its like that
BUT if he happens to summon it just to test it out and it JUST SO HAPPENS to touch him
hes fucking dead
GER's ability *is* to revert actions to zero, so GER very well could revert Josuke's attempt at using Go Beyond
@@bowldawg4394 yeah i guess but it is technically not in this reality
so if he doesnt have the intent for the action i dont think hed kill him if he doesnt have the intent
@@bowldawg4394 Even with an activation point, it still doesnt exist within the reality. Once gappy shot the bubble it automatically stops existing only thing GER could do is revert gappy's movement but the bubble would still be going towards GER since it doesnt exist
Yeah you’re right about that
Johnny: My power is everything, it's infinity.
Josuke: My power is absolutely nothing.
Go beyond seems to "plunder" concepts in my opinion. He took away calamity that was affecting the family. After a while, could be seconds or centuries, calamity is released back into the world without bias. Calamity will be plundered of Toruu's influence (this one for good) going back to a truly unbiased concept. A dual plunder.
That's likely what it is.
It """s t e a l s""" concepts from the immediate area.
The problem is that, just like with S&W regular, you can't just keep it. It goes back to where it was eventually.
@@evangonzalez7732But at least it isn't under the control of one entity
Finally was waiting so long for this video.
There is actually something left unspoken regarding GER because of how minimally it is featured compared to other super-powerful abilities in the series (which often have multiple chapters dedicated to them, while GER is quite literally there for 1 scene and then gone forever).
Technically its ability was also described as "defying logic" by making it so that there is no effect to a cause, and if you go off that then it's pretty much the only outright logic-defying Stand in the series before Go Beyond, so I find that particular comparison hard to make because of how little it was actually featured and never actually explored. But that's probably why it remains such a favored topic of conversation in the fanbase, because it's basically a blank page which is nothing but grounds for speculation.
I do consider Corpse Part stands to also transcend logic in a sense because they are for all intents and purposes miracles. Though for a fact I'd say Tusk, Ball Breaker, and D.4.C. Love Train are because they are miraculous, and by the very way miracles work they are illogical and do not follow the rules of logic or reality so I put Soft and Wet alongside them. But that's my own opinion.
I completely agree with your theory that the corpse parts (and their stand by products) are miraculous and could stand up to Wonder of U.
Perhaps because Johnny used TUSK4 and the corpse parts on a product of WOU’s calamity (the curse) and not WOU itself it allowed calamity to take its course and reflect bad luck back onto Johnny “miraculously” ( as the corpse parts have the power to perform miracles)
Here's the thing, while the go-beyond bubbles are certainly "hax-proof" in that, because of their extra-dimensional nature, you can't do anything to the bubble but the bubble can do things to you, no amount of shenanigans will prevent you from getting bubbled short of just, avoiding the bubble, since the bubbled did need yasuho to guide them.
But, whats the actual attack potency of the bubbles? They're basically "just" an unblockable gun really. Yeah, a headshot with them will kill pretty much anything that would die to a headshot, but, thats kind of ALL they are. Star platinum can destroy a lot more things, and much more DURABLE things, much faster than S&W, just see the high priestess teeth-breaking scene. Weather report could also straight up just, throw around hurricanes if he wanted to. Regular gold experience could probably just, create a billion lions if Giorno felt like it, especially if arrow-boosted. Gas up Go Beyond all you want, but, its a fairly 'localized' effect. We aren't even sure how 'revert to zero' would interact with go beyond in practice in much the same way that we don't know how king crimson's time skip would interact with time stop. does making the bubble not be fired make it not exist or does it just, exist anyways? heck, would MANDOM make the bubbles be un-fired? We just don't know. in a way it is un-knowable, because these are all abilities that operate entirely outside the bounds of physics as we understand them to such an extent that we would need Araki to answer it.
Ultimately it comes down to what DIO said in part six about "strongest stand" in a way. Who would win between Giorno and Josuk8? Its whoever attacks first. Go beyond has no defenses, but also just ignores pretty much every defense. If anything I'm inclined to say that King Crimson of all things can beat Go Beyond because Diavolo could just... use epitath to see which way the bubble would go, and then use time skip pre-emptively to just, *not* be in the trajectory of it, before one-shot'ing Josuke from behind. sure, the bubble probably WOULD invade and still hit him in skipped time if he activated time skip AFTER it was fired because he'd be too slow to get out of the way, but if the bubble passes through points A, B, and C, and he's never in any of those points while the bubble is there, because he knew thats where it would be fired ahead of time, and used time skip to lock that firing trajectory in place and deny josuke the chance to adjust, then yeah he dodges and then scores the kill. Ironic then that King Crimson, used properly, can beat one of the few things that are able to beat the very thing king crimson lost to, but thats just how it goes in JoJos. An ability is only as good as the user is able to apply use it.
go beyond bubbles are invisible, they can't be seen by king crimson
He would still see himself getting capped by the bubble though. He doesn't have to see the bubble. He just has to not be in the spot where he got hit.
@@TheWarlordShogunWould he be able to see that, is the question. Go Beyond's bubbles do not exist, so would his prediction even be able to factor in their existence? I wonder if he'd use Epitaph and just see nothing, before getting bodied by an invisible bubble outta nowhere
It's really nice seeing you have a music taste very similiar as me, crazy to find joey badass and Nujabes in a jojo video
Nujabes in the background while you were talking about Josuk8 was awesome
I feel like people don't remember that WR can kill everyone on Earth in a minute if he feels like it.
@Hero Ocampo weather report.
Weather Report is the strongest basic stand. One that isn't tied to infinity, requiem, or time manipulation.
@Hero Ocampo cream’s not the strongest. It’s one of them but it’s basically just The Hand but nerfed
@Hero Ocampo but if we go by stands they are the same except cream is blind and deaf
@@TheLarryDungeon no because it is also invincible. It's a sidegrade ig but with a higher skill ceiling.
S&W go beyond and wonder of you’s conceptual powers are so powerful that it is un attractive in my eyes.
Note. In my head cannon I like to scale down characters like these to make them more fun for me to play with. The concepts are certainly fun, but using them as beyond everything in existence powers isn’t fun.
On terms of strongest stand, I feel like for some, it's dependent on the user and not it's abilities. Biggest example being Okuyasu and The hand
This is correct because the hand has no limits fallacy
Tbt The Hand erasing *the space between itself and another person* to bring them closer. If only Okuyasu weren’t an idiot
Would Okyasu be able to delete Go Beyonds bubble?
@@nem6191 idk, it seems possible
@@nem6191 you can't delete something that already doesn't exist
Now we truly have the means to defend our selves from Ohio's final boss
Indeed
What about the Ohio Boss final phade
Wonder of Ohio
@@-gj3nu soft&wet: beyond ohio
Ohio 🤓
I'd like to point out that Johnny did not "fail" at removing the rock disease from his family. Him removing it was why none of the Joestars, only the Higashikatas had the disease.
Next strongest stand will have powers of nullification. Hear me out on this.
If you went against an enemy who can nullify existence on even a remotely small scale, you'd go against some sort of mystical black hole. Some sort of ordinary guy like Yoshikage Kira who was just messed with for too long and who breaks and nullifies all that is good in him. Basicaly Plunder on Steroids and Meth.
And of course this adds up to Wonder of You Logic based attack scheme.
You'd probably have to have a character who is the exact opposite like creation itself which is chaotic by nature.
I am kinda mashing ideas together for possibly even writing a story for my gf and her manga 🤷♂️😄
cool idea
@@ProjektTaku thank you. In my creation I regularly take inspiration from manga and anime. And this might be the next step for Araki but he will probably pen something really amazing either way.
@@sick_bartender same dude. In my comic I'm really borrowing a lot from manga I've read.
Can't wait to see what part 9's gonna be like!
gappy still has much more room to develop with spin, he was able to to have debatably the most overpowered stand with only the basic level of spin, just imagine his power with lesson 5
@organicelephant5416 just imagine a bubble that defies all natural laws of physics and spins infinitely, the result is a bubble that creates infinite amounts of energy that also deletes everything it touches. Think of a miniature remote controlled version of vanilla ice's stand, cream. It could also make the cells inside whatever it touches spin infinitely.
@@GrantJmima creating "Black Hole" bubbles with that infinte energy? I'm in
At the beginning where the meme for Bohemian Rhapsody being the strongest, i actually think it could be considered the strongest, because if you make up something like a God that follows you the user you'd be all powerful technically. And to stop someone making a character that destroys the stand you could also create a character that kills people who try to make one.
I have often wondered if Cream could beat Wonder of U
Being basically the same a go beyond bubble when in the void state, basically non existant as its essentially a zero dimensional point, a hole in the universe, beyond logic?
Even if calamity tried to act on it would it even do anything when in that state?
he doesn't exist in the world so how would go beyond even affect him?
It still exists as a "hole", which logically means it leads somewhere. Go Beyond isn't a hole, it's nothing, yet it hits with the power to kill. Cream would still be affected by Calamity, as WoU can control Stand effects to cause Calamities, as seen when it uses Josuk8's bubbles to kill Mamezuku. It could control the Void and place it in such a way that it can't reach Tooru without Vanilla Ice looking around, and the moment his head's exposed, something Stand related would fly into Cream's mouth like the rapier of Silver Chariot and destroy Vanilla Ice's brain, incapacitating him until the sun rises and destroys him.
Vanilla Ice mentioned that the hole leads somewhere, but he doesn’t know where
You are wrong when you say the things that go inside the void of cream go non existent
@@HalohbotTech but the hole doesn't exist. Its nothing that swallow's everything.
And I doubt tooru's calamity can reach inside a pocket dimension.
Cream can't delete logic itself, so no. The only stands that could defeat WoU other than S&W GB would be ones that could set a trap for it, like Killer Queen. Because if you ever attack or pursue the Tooru directly, yer screwed, and even if he dies WoU is still coming after you for the rest of your life. The only way to win would be to trick Tooru into a trap that he activates himself.
That video is interesting
Like after the video I would say that like GER or Soft and Wet are one of the strongest stands like that is now debateable because GER is "untouchable" and Soft and Wet is apparently just inlogical in universe (or like it can attack with an attack which doesn't exist, I guess)
So that would be a really interesting match up
Edit:
To place my standpoint due to an argument:
In my opinion GER will PROBABLY still win because I can't imagine that an protagonist will obliterate someone (in this case with plunder, just removing the brain, heart or skin) or rather the only one I can think of would be Giorno because GER works on it's own (too some extent and not like Star Platinum)
But back to the thing of "probably win":
GER can nullify any harm too Giorno (so to defeat him you would need to one shot him which is nearly impossible) so the attack of Soft and Wet will hit Giorno but probably won't kill him so he'll win in this situation
So only a battle without information about the opponent GER will win but if only Josuke knows about the abilities of GER he is going to win and nothing can change that
So to make sure that Josuke wins he would needs to know about every ability of GER and Giorno is not allowed to know anything about Soft and Wet any other thing would probably be a 50/50 situation, I guess?
So the conclusion:
GER will probably win but it depends how much Josuke knows about GER
I think Gappy wins the match up easily, but GER is the stronger stand
See the thing is just the thought of hurt Giorno activates return to zero so it doesn’t matter
GER still beats soft and wet. The attack which soft and wet does has cause and effect
@@OGking831 no because the attack doesnt exist, getting rid of the cause does nothing, because it was never anything to begin with, it surpasses logic, which ger uses to activate its ability, ger uses the logic that without cause there is no effect, but go beyond surpasses both.
@@dattos140 this is false because GER manipulates both things at once not just one thing. Therefore to say it's logical would be disingenuous to what it's shown about his ability.
In fact soft and wet attacks are in fact in the range GER because it's based on "cause and effect". Btw new Jojo verse are completely bound by time. Compared to the previous universe, GER is transcendental stand that goes beyond time and fate
20:29 to add onto this. Assuming the golden spin represents the natural spin found in the universes laws, then it is limited to the planc length or some similar smallest possible unit of measurment. But Josuke's spin is inifitnite. And it has to be, because the line that makes up the buble has infinite thinnness, which makes it "outside" of the universe because it cannot be represented by anything. Its like having a mathematical anomaly that goes against physical reality/logic(as the video puts it).
As someone who's only a casual JoJo's fan, what the fuck?
I would pin this, but I have arguments on my pinned comment LMAO
Well, this depends on what you mean by most powerful. I don't think S&W:GB can win the most battles, but I think it has the single most potent and unstoppable attack in the series.
unstoppable but not unavoidable unlike something like ger where theres just no loophole (excluding wou and s&w)
agree
This is the best way to put it. Wonder of U has the strongest defense in the series (technically or GER if you prefer) but the strongest offense goes to S&W:GB. "You can't hurt me." versus "You better fucking dodge or that's GG."
@@japaneseambassador3562
- Haha you can't hurt me
- Then *nothing* can hurt you
I just took this from my note in my phone but i think this can explain everything
Soft and Wet: Go Beyond!
His bubbles can trap objects, properties, and even concepts, he can release it anytime he wants, he can also make explosive bubles like yoshikage kira's bomb and soft and wet (josefumi) bubbles combined. His line spins so fast they appear as spherical and then turn to zero when they hit infinite spinning meaning it disappears after spinning too fast. So nothing can really beat the stand if its used aggressively (taking hearts of other with the bubble and never giving it back or removing the concept of his enemy's power or his existence itself)
Fun fact Tusk act 4 should also be able to defeat wonder of u because of infinite spin, this is because you can’t say infinity is pursuing you
But you can say Tusk Act 4 or Johnny is.
Well he forgot again
Johnny literally died using Tusk act 4 against calamity.
Okay there he is, Tooru. I'm gonna shoot him. Wait a minute, a leaf coming toward my finger?! Theres no way it avoids me from shooting Tooru, like cut my finger, RIGHT? Hahaha
@@johnlucas2838 I mean, if Tusk is literally ''filled up'' with the infite golden rotation energy, doesn't that mean he is technically safe from the Return to Zero.
I must say. This was great to watch. The way you explained everything without leaving out anything, was very good... And since I'm not yet done with part 8 all because I was waiting for the part 9 announcement (didn't want to finish and have no more JoJo to read 😞) I can tell this video was a go finish up part 8 to me. Now I'm fired up not just because of the power but because now I'll understand it once I continue 😅...
Nice video... I am obligated to sub because of how well you explain stuff
I just finished part 8 and my only question is that Soft and Wet the stand is not illogical, just his one attack is. It is also stated that he can't really control it either. So wouldn't GER, while being logical, still beat josuke since there is a chance his attack doesnt come out or he doesn't kill with the first shot?
keep in mind that most of these abilities are considered to be "hax" in power-scaling
Isn't that just jojo power-scaling in a nutshell, like:
Mostly hax with the occasional absolute power-house
@@victoroliveira3577 yeah most of them caps at large town level (around 7c) even for stand like Star Platinum and Soft & Wet..
I can't think of a stand that actually is able to fight higher-tier characters without hax.
@@0placeholder0 jojo is the definition of: "hax>most of things"
@@victoroliveira3577 yeah, GER is the best example of this since you need to scale to a higher level of infinity or have Causality Manipulation Negation to beat it even if you scale higher than it's measly AP.
Ima need a longer video explaining this. Cuz this blew my mind
what an elite background music selection
I find soft and wet:go beyond funny because it technically would not be inaccurate to say that Toru was killed by nothing.
Tooru who can solo like 90% of anime verse dies to literally nothing is ironic 💀
Someone somewhere has ruined their copy of the manga by spilling liquid on it, that's probably where the bubbles went
GER still the ultimate stand in my heart, with an ultimate defense and immeasurable stats.
GER couldn't stop Made in Heaven though.
@@dangerousdays2052 you think soft and wet could either 💀
@@dangerousdays2052 if giorno was with the part 6 group and were to be attacked then GER would have activated, since Made in Heaven only moved time forward without causing harm to anyone GER didn't have to activate
@@Zer0_.s._ What, was Giorno taking a nap at the time or something? He should have realized there was a problem and fixed it if GER was capable of doing so.
@@dangerousdays2052 GER is a passive ability that not even Giorno knows, it's an automatic ability, giorno can only use the normale Gold Experience powers, GER activates only if Giorno is going to receive any kind of harm
Tooru is not the concept of calamity. His ability is to make calamity obey his orders
Meanwhile, I'm just sitting over in the corner, learning a bit more about random stands, and finding I am liking Weather Report more and more simply cause of that flying scene in part 6 :V
Can't really say that S&W:GB is a random stand
To summarize and simplify. Jouske's bubbles exist in this reality that you and I are in. And so if one of his bubbles comes in contact with the paper page containing Wonder of U. That ruins the page. That destroys Wonder of U.
17:42 In my example a real life bubble would definitely have the same effect on GR or any characters in the series. In the multitudes of copies purchased or sold of this series. Someone somewhere has ruined their book with some soda accident or SOMETHING else influenced by bubbles. So by that logic Go Beyond beats itself.
I base this off Grant Morrison's concepts of 5th dimensional beings in their writings.
So to simplify to dummy terms, Josuk8’s bubbles are like real life erasers that affect the plot/manga, breaking the 4th wall entirely.
@@canadianchaos1517 This is golden
@@canadianchaos1517 Yo, We should talk 4orbs 😁
Summing up the strongest stands
SCR: the good ok switcharoo
GER: it’s rewind time
D4C:LT: this wall tastes like alternate dimensions
MIH: i am speed
TA4: the refrigerator is *COMING FOR YOU*
WOU: stubbing your toe never hit the same
Go Beyond: you dropped all of the goddamn soap
TWOH: fuck your ability, I’m goddamn Jesus Christ
Soft & Wet Go Beyond is a walking win button. As long as the concept of "winning" exists, it will win. It's literally the power of miracles as an illogical event. Josuke could shoot himself with it and the shot would travel back to damage the adversary.
Ok but MIH
@@qwart22 MIH would not be able to run toward Josuke because he can plunder the ground's friction.
@@Doflaminguard bro did you see pucci during part 6? I don’t think he cares about walking lmao also made in heaven DOES control gravity still so pucci could just levitate, it could also be used to accelerate aging as shown earlier in part 6 when a ladies nails grew iirc
@@qwart22 okay but wonder of you canonically beats it
@@joesmoe2616 your reasoning?
Soft and wet vs hard and dry who wins?
Combine the two and you get... Hard and wet 🌚
What haraki loves : infinity, spin, good and bad, characters having the ability to dismember for some reason, make powerscalers want to jump out a window.
Jojo fans gonna ascend to 5d world in the future if araki keeps doing stuffs like this
Wait a second. Star Platinum and Soft and Wet are both powerful Stands used by talented users, and both get a resolve boost evolution that lets them unlock a sort of dormant ability, catapulting them into the status of Most Powerful Stand in existence. Not to mention that Jotaro is sort of part of the Josuke fusion as Alt Universe Kira is also part Jotaro…
Does that mean Soft and Wet Go Beyond is the Alt Universe version of Star Platinum The World?
Yes
You have the most fire background music taste lol
Song at 13:50 ?
Here's how it would go down:
Go Beyond launches a bubble towards GER.
GER's fate is to be hit/damaged by the bubble.
Go Beyond never launched the bubble.
That's my thought process.
Naw the bubble don’t care it’s still hitting him you can’t return something to zero if it doesn’t exist
@@METAsMETAs ok cool. The thing is tho:
GER is fated to take damage correct? Or am I wrong, and does the bubble do no damage to GER?
if it deals damage, it is fated to happen, and GER can reverse the damage.
@@Abraxas1212 it still hits and kills everything about the bubble is illogical by its nature
@@METAsMETAs ok, so it hits, right? You admit that it deals damage, and that said damage happens to exist, correct?
@@Abraxas1212 technically even the damage it would do would be illogical it basically spawned out of nowhere there is no action to erase it’s affect
Tusk act 4 didn't exactly get reflected, the curse just got transfered to johnny. Thus TA4 changed its course to the curse, which is Johnny and it killed him before reaching the curse.
What i mean by this is that TA4 can indeed break WOU, regardless if the calamities got to johnny first.
Wonder of U = plot armor
Soft and wet = plot gun
See, the problem I have with this is that from my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) Josuke's "nothing" bubbles are still only about as fast as his regular bubbles, and they're not just an instakill unless they hit a vital area. So, literally any stand that could outspeed that (which is most stands high on the list: MiH, GER, Tusk Act 4, Star Platinum, The World, etc.) could kill him before the bubble could do anything. Especially DIO could likely just ignore the damage caused by the bubble (because he's a fucking vamprie) and go straight for him, even if the bubble still works in timestop.
It seems like Go Beyond is an ability that's specifically made to counter Wonder of U and wouldn't actually be that strong in a fight against an opponent who has massive offensive capability instead of only massive defensive capability.
Well yeah but soft and wet has the strongest attack among all stands.
@@johnrenwelmauro2387 So? "Strongest attack" does not mean "strongest stand."
And actually, it's not even really the strongest attack. It probably has destructive power on par with something like Star Platinum's punches. Basically all it does is carve out a small hole in someone when it hits. Tusk Act 4 would actually be way stronger in terms of power alone.
The only thing that makes it really strong within its part is the fact that it can specifically bypass Wonder of U's ability.
@@Jorvalt Yeah I agree it's not the strongest stand but it has the strongest attack.
Isn't it said that GER is also outside the laws of physics?
So an unintentional and untrained manifestation of spin is stronger than a trained almost perfect manifestation of spin that went beyond being a stand and bypassed dimensions and luck while being incomplete
I'm talking about Ball Breaker, it wasn't even a perfect spin and yet it bypassed love train easier than act 4
I mean if Johny can use the perfect triangle on an infinitely small thing then in theory it is stronger then go beyond
@@blobofmeatwhoexist8460 Johnny surpassed both Time Stop and Love Train, act 3 alone is a way better version of Go Beyond
@@LoanRepresentative I mean depends on the situation but for most situation yeah
@@blobofmeatwhoexist8460 it doesn't depend, act 3 is literally better in every way and I wasn't talking about Tusk to begin with
I was talking about Ball Breaker, which is very similar to Tusk but managed to show it was similar or stronger while being imperfect, meaning there was much mire to be achieved
Remember that the spin that gappy uses and the one that jhonny has are totally different, go beyond uses the "explosive spin" and is a fusion between SaW bubbles and KQ explosions (this is explained in chapter 105)
finally Joskue 8 is getting some love recently because he is super underrated
i feel like more people are finally interested in JoJolion (my fave part) now that Part 9 has started :))
this just makes me like him even less
You got me at first with the JoJo content, and kept me with the Luv Sic instrumental
To simplify Go Beyond it's an ability that transcends logic itself whereas every other Stand ability in all of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure operates under some kind of logic, essentially Go Beyond wins against every other Stand because it just does, it's literally that old King Crimson meme of "it just works" it just wins.
“it just works” except… yeah, it actually just works
Except he said he couldn’t aim it at all without paisley park
Operating beyond logic means the user, a logic and reality based being, won’t be able to influence it once the attack is initiated. Otherwise it is bound by reality to at least a certain degree and therefore not unbeatable. But if the user can’t control it, then it again is not unbeatable. So he really doesn’t just auto win. Against a lot of opponents really, unless something assists with aiming like paisley park.
@@Rl55322 I'm pretty sure its implied that Josuke only needed Paisley Park to help aim because he's never deliberately used Go Beyond before and isn't practiced enough to aim well on his own and not that Josuke can't aim it on his own at all
@@nathanblackburn1193 I'm pretty sure its implied the bubbles of go beyond are something uncontrolable that's why he needs help aiming