The 8-Bit Guy is a legend. I've been subbed to his channel for years. And he's living his best life. Made several of his own video games. Designed and sells a bespoke, retro-style computer (with it's own old-school OS) And he now owns an arcade.
It sure is wonderful seeing just how creative developers were with all these limits to create such wonderful pieces of art in all these games, all with pushing the limits of existing hardware. Enabling machines like the Amiga to still out perform most other computers in the 90s. 8-Bit Guy is fantastic.
I started with a ZX Spectrum 48k. Many years later I got an Amiga 500... and I was blown away 🤯I 'upgraded' it with the extra 500kb memory and a second disk drive.
I love the 8bit Guy and I'm glad you"re dong something with this channel. I never had any Amiga or Commodore products though. I was an Apple II and 386 kid. I love your other channel with the history stuff and all the Videogame stuff you have in the background is awesome.. I dont know about George Forman KO boxing; but still...
I have two breadbins that I still need to repair. Have a 128 that works. I'd love to have an Amiga. 8-bit Guy's Commodore history series is top notch. Recommend it to everyone who has even a passing interest in early home computing history.
The Atari engineers actually left a few years earlier, after Bushnell stepped aside as CEO and Warner Communications took over and had no respect for tge creation of engineers (this is how Activision came about too). (At least as far as I am aware, not an expert or anything).
If memory serves, you're maybe 4 -6 years younger then me.. I started with the Commodore VIC-20 and went Intel... ok AMD from there. I actually not sure, but I think I can say building, configuring and overclocking a PC 386 to early core i series (maybe 6th or 7th gen at most) or Pre-Ryzen for me beats a crash of blades any day... but just barely. If you want another youtuber to geek out over, try LGR. If you want to learn.. hummm I've built every system I own, might be willing to at some part share some gear, let me know.
Yeah, the Commodore 64 had hardware sprites. An excellent implementation for the time (1982), in fact. I can see the VIC-II registers in my head already... Sure, the Amiga's sprite system was more flexible, but that's unsurprising given it was a newer machine.
The price wars of the 80s is what killed Atari and Commodore. Other people list many other reasons, but more or less that is the easiest way to explain it. I really should put my two A4000s back together again...
The discussion makes it sound like Atari and Commodore engineers switched companies at the same time. Atari hardware engineers left Atari years before Jack Tramiel bought Atari. I was reading about the top secret developments of the Amiga company in Atari-related magazines and columns long before they were bought by Commodore.
Unless The-8Bit-Guy has upgraded the computer _(which is suggested at the 16 minute mark),_ what he is showing is 'typically' not actually always the original Amiga A1000, per se _(but rather an upgraded original),_ and that is because it only came with 256KB of RAM _(but it looks like he indeed has an original upgraded with more RAM to 512KB, and later a screen shows 1Megabyte 1024KB on an Amiga Workbench in the original video)._ With that in mind, the point of mentioning it is that shipping with more than one Floppy disk drive would have used an extra 30KB of RAM _(so four takes up 120KB out of 256KB, some of which is used elsewhere like for the OS),_ which is also what happens every time you add an extra floppy disk drive or HDD, or peripheral, such as a printer to the parallel port. The Commodore Amiga popularised its own floppy disk format _(accessed by PAULA chip, Port audio UART and Logic, or on the A1000, "Portia")_ for software and so it probably made good sense in business acumen to have it the way they had it. However, the CPU, instead of the 68000, in my opinion, would have been better to swap for the pricier 68020 by sacrificing the floppy-drive (other than an optional extra) to allow to boot from the Parallel-port with the serial-port connected too _(largely via CIA with something like a different Kickstart and 8520 CIA boot-selector toggle),_ and then simply switch once booted to other devices _(like printer or serial link to another computer)_ if pass-through were not possible. A tape or cartridge. The designers did excellently of course with their Amiga computer. The 68020 was in the A1200 and the A500 was, at one point, going to basically be more like the A1200. The reason why _(since the A1000)_ the 68020 would have been better is because the 68000, other than 16bit versus 8bit _(although it could be applied as 32bit or 16bit or 8bit)_ was not necessarily faster in practice than the 6502 series and this is because the 68000 has redundant registers which, unless a coder is going to use them, lead to cycles needed for them. So making use of the redundant registers could have instead been encouraged more as a coding style by having the 68020 because it was capable of having an optional extra FPU (maths-co-processor Floating Point Unit) such as the 68881 and later the 68882, and the FPU has registers. This is useful for register swapping to convert floating point into integer to thereby store integer in registers intended for floating point. Then of course, it also means that coders can expect to consider an FPU might be added later. What would have also made sense is to leave a space on the motherboard for a custom MMU _(Memory Managment Unit)_ although it would have been possible to have an MMU on the right sort of 68020 CPU. The rationale for this would be that, akin to the 68012, a later secondary 68020 for parallel processing coud have been added via a Zorro slot, such as how a side-car could be added to an Amiga A500 to have a second CPU except, by this approach, the existing 68020 could ave been used simultaneously instead of deactivating it. Registers hold tiny amounts of data, but, as per demoscene coders, it is still a place to store data in a frugal way. The speed of the 68020 would be not much better an improvement unless fast-RAM were to be later added, but the machine expected people would have upgraded RAM, and so it would have made the boost in speed noticeable, epecially for those who opted for an FPU later too. Loading speed could have then been increased by usage of Markov chains in compression _(to go with archiving)_ and FPU could have taken advantage of that for floating point operations in Markov chains. Not only this, but Object Oriented Programming was in its formative stages in the 19080s and so state-transition diagrams of UML could have been used to describe Markov state transitions. Floating Point arithmetic is used in Fourier analysis for media playback like graphics and video, and transcendental operations like fractals, or Fourier series for sound _(saw too, square-wave and so on)._ Benefits to Z-Buffer on an FPU could then be used in pre-calc for _(horizontal versus vertical)_ lines drawn by the 4bit blitter chip _(or an outcome like the 'Lines Window' demo shown around 21 minutes of the original video)._ Also, the Amiga checksum could have been optimised by the polynomial, also improving reading and writing of data. At 15 minutes The-8Bit-Guy says that every Amiga included a disk drive, and he mentions "for storage" (about there being no need for a tape). If he means floppy disk, that is incorrect, but if he included CD, then he is correct because the CD32 had a CD drive but it would not allow a person to store to it. That said, there was internal storage, but whether it can be called a "disk drive" is open to debate. At 16:30 it sounds like you have mistaken the meaning of "System Bus" as though it means the case being called something other than a tower. The shape is 'desktop' versus 'tower' for the naming convention. The 'bus' refers to "zorro bus" via DMA. This is about the custom chipset, differentiation such as the copper _(the chip that helps the 4bit Blitter and can allow the screen to be 'dragged' up and down to show new screens behind, as per around 23 minutes into the original video)._ For example, to differ between what bus is used, consider the register address bus. CPU address bus versus chip data bus is an example. In A500 and A2000, see Agnus chip for "Address GeNerator Unites". My comment has no hate in it and I do no harm. I am not appalled or afraid, boasting or envying or complaining... Just saying. Psalms23: Giving thanks and praise to the Lord and peace and love. Also, I'd say Matthew6.
Were games made for having just one floppy disk? I watched videos about the Japanese home computers of the 80s and 90s (the channel basement brothers does great videos of the video games for those systems) and a key feature necessary for their games was having two disks.
Link to the original video
th-cam.com/video/kjapiUQOi2s/w-d-xo.html
The 8-Bit Guy is a legend. I've been subbed to his channel for years. And he's living his best life. Made several of his own video games. Designed and sells a bespoke, retro-style computer (with it's own old-school OS) And he now owns an arcade.
Yep, been following him for quite a while now!
Never grew up with the Amiga, but a few years ago i discovered Amiga music demos and they are great to listen to while making Counter-Strike maps.
I bought an Amiga 1000 back in the '80s (the first computer I owned). It was a wonderful machine and a fantastic operating system.
My very first computer was the Commodore VIC-20.
It sure is wonderful seeing just how creative developers were with all these limits to create such wonderful pieces of art in all these games, all with pushing the limits of existing hardware. Enabling machines like the Amiga to still out perform most other computers in the 90s.
8-Bit Guy is fantastic.
I started with a ZX Spectrum 48k. Many years later I got an Amiga 500... and I was blown away 🤯I 'upgraded' it with the extra 500kb memory and a second disk drive.
The 8-Bit guy is great, I've been watching him for years.😊😊
I love the 8bit Guy and I'm glad you"re dong something with this channel. I never had any Amiga or Commodore products though. I was an Apple II and 386 kid. I love your other channel with the history stuff and all the Videogame stuff you have in the background is awesome.. I dont know about George Forman KO boxing; but still...
i love the amiga , i have a raspberry pi in my man cave that is a dedicated amiga with 4000 games and all the software
Didn't know Amiga came from Atari originally.
Get a V4SA. Modern day Amiga. 68080. They are wonderful.
I have two breadbins that I still need to repair. Have a 128 that works. I'd love to have an Amiga.
8-bit Guy's Commodore history series is top notch. Recommend it to everyone who has even a passing interest in early home computing history.
We also had the term Brotkasten in German.
The Atari engineers actually left a few years earlier, after Bushnell stepped aside as CEO and Warner Communications took over and had no respect for tge creation of engineers (this is how Activision came about too). (At least as far as I am aware, not an expert or anything).
metatron has so much content is crazy
because he is a reaction channel now unfortunately
If memory serves, you're maybe 4 -6 years younger then me.. I started with the Commodore VIC-20 and went Intel... ok AMD from there. I actually not sure, but I think I can say building, configuring and overclocking a PC 386 to early core i series (maybe 6th or 7th gen at most) or Pre-Ryzen for me beats a crash of blades any day... but just barely. If you want another youtuber to geek out over, try LGR. If you want to learn.. hummm I've built every system I own, might be willing to at some part share some gear, let me know.
Yeah, the Commodore 64 had hardware sprites. An excellent implementation for the time (1982), in fact. I can see the VIC-II registers in my head already...
Sure, the Amiga's sprite system was more flexible, but that's unsurprising given it was a newer machine.
The price wars of the 80s is what killed Atari and Commodore. Other people list many other reasons, but more or less that is the easiest way to explain it.
I really should put my two A4000s back together again...
The discussion makes it sound like Atari and Commodore engineers switched companies at the same time. Atari hardware engineers left Atari years before Jack Tramiel bought Atari.
I was reading about the top secret developments of the Amiga company in Atari-related magazines and columns long before they were bought by Commodore.
Unless The-8Bit-Guy has upgraded the computer _(which is suggested at the 16 minute mark),_ what he is showing is 'typically' not actually always the original Amiga A1000, per se _(but rather an upgraded original),_ and that is because it only came with 256KB of RAM _(but it looks like he indeed has an original upgraded with more RAM to 512KB, and later a screen shows 1Megabyte 1024KB on an Amiga Workbench in the original video)._ With that in mind, the point of mentioning it is that shipping with more than one Floppy disk drive would have used an extra 30KB of RAM _(so four takes up 120KB out of 256KB, some of which is used elsewhere like for the OS),_ which is also what happens every time you add an extra floppy disk drive or HDD, or peripheral, such as a printer to the parallel port. The Commodore Amiga popularised its own floppy disk format _(accessed by PAULA chip, Port audio UART and Logic, or on the A1000, "Portia")_ for software and so it probably made good sense in business acumen to have it the way they had it. However, the CPU, instead of the 68000, in my opinion, would have been better to swap for the pricier 68020 by sacrificing the floppy-drive (other than an optional extra) to allow to boot from the Parallel-port with the serial-port connected too _(largely via CIA with something like a different Kickstart and 8520 CIA boot-selector toggle),_ and then simply switch once booted to other devices _(like printer or serial link to another computer)_ if pass-through were not possible. A tape or
cartridge. The designers did excellently of course with their Amiga computer. The 68020 was in the A1200 and the A500 was, at one point, going to basically be more like the A1200. The reason why _(since the A1000)_ the 68020 would have been better is because the 68000, other than 16bit versus 8bit _(although it could be applied as 32bit or 16bit or 8bit)_ was not necessarily faster in practice than the 6502 series and this is because the 68000 has redundant registers which, unless a coder is going to use them, lead to cycles needed for them. So making use of the redundant registers could have instead been encouraged more as a coding style by having the 68020 because it was capable of having an optional extra FPU (maths-co-processor Floating Point Unit) such as the 68881 and later the 68882, and the FPU has registers. This is useful for register swapping to convert floating point into integer to thereby store integer in registers intended for floating point. Then of course, it also means that coders can expect to consider an FPU might be added later. What would have also made sense is to leave a space on the motherboard for a custom MMU _(Memory Managment Unit)_ although it would have been possible to have an MMU on the right sort of 68020 CPU. The rationale for this would be that, akin to the 68012, a later secondary 68020 for parallel processing coud have been added via a Zorro slot, such as how a side-car could be added to an Amiga A500 to have a second CPU except, by this approach, the existing 68020 could ave been used simultaneously instead of deactivating it. Registers hold tiny amounts of data, but, as per demoscene coders, it is still a place to store data in a frugal way. The speed of the 68020 would be not much better an improvement unless fast-RAM were to be later added, but the machine expected people would have upgraded RAM, and so it would have made the boost in speed noticeable, epecially for those who opted for an FPU later too. Loading speed could have then been increased by usage of Markov chains in compression _(to go with archiving)_ and FPU could have taken advantage of that for floating point operations in Markov chains. Not only this, but Object Oriented Programming was in its formative stages in the 19080s and so state-transition diagrams of UML could have been used to describe Markov state transitions. Floating Point arithmetic is used in Fourier analysis for media playback like graphics and video, and transcendental operations like fractals, or Fourier series for sound _(saw too, square-wave and so on)._ Benefits to Z-Buffer on an FPU could then be used in pre-calc for _(horizontal versus vertical)_ lines drawn by the 4bit blitter chip _(or an outcome like the 'Lines Window' demo shown around 21 minutes of the original video)._ Also, the Amiga checksum could have been optimised by the polynomial, also improving reading and writing of data.
At 15 minutes The-8Bit-Guy says that every Amiga included a disk drive, and he mentions "for storage" (about there being no need for a tape). If he means floppy disk, that is incorrect, but if he included CD, then he is correct because the CD32 had a CD drive but it would not allow a person to store to it. That said, there was internal storage, but whether it can be called a "disk drive" is open to debate.
At 16:30 it sounds like you have mistaken the meaning of "System Bus" as though it means the case being called something other than a tower. The shape is 'desktop' versus 'tower' for the naming convention. The 'bus' refers to "zorro bus" via DMA. This is about the custom chipset, differentiation such as the copper _(the chip that helps the 4bit Blitter and can allow the screen to be 'dragged' up and down to show new screens behind, as per around 23 minutes into the original video)._ For example, to differ between what bus is used, consider the register address bus. CPU address bus versus chip data bus is an example. In A500 and A2000, see Agnus chip for "Address GeNerator Unites".
My comment has no hate in it and I do no harm. I am not appalled or afraid, boasting or envying or complaining... Just saying. Psalms23: Giving thanks and praise to the Lord and peace and love. Also, I'd say Matthew6.
I miss those times of simple Operating Systems like the Amiga workbench.
Makes me hate to change to Windows 11 even more.
Great vid meta!! Do you have either the time crisis games or the house of the dead games originals
Would love to see it on livestream
Here, here.
Were games made for having just one floppy disk? I watched videos about the Japanese home computers of the 80s and 90s (the channel basement brothers does great videos of the video games for those systems) and a key feature necessary for their games was having two disks.
Ha, he shows Defender of the Crown... which arguably the Amiga version is broken and the best version is the one on the ST.
If 8-bit is so good, why isn't there 4-bit? 😂
bn gaming since I was 10 , started with Atari 2600 and xe. took a 20 yr break but bn playin the past 5 yrs.
The 2600 and XE are pretty much the Grandfather and Dad of the Amiga. Game on!
Still patiently waiting for your reply to badempanada 🙏🏼