So why dont you only use Kiss FC or FC+ESC on a different frame/motors etc to see if its all about Kiss FC/ESC... Would be a great video... Wanna see if you will still get same locked feel... And use analog fpv again to put latency aside...
@Joshua Bardwell Have you done another updated video on this ? I'd be very interested in seeing Vannys take on setting up the FETTEC.... His CL1 Build looked great, also the comments from other pilots was promising re: smoothness and negated prop wash. Cheers 🍻
Joshua, you mention the little holes in the pads being difficult to deal with in terms of soldering. I use T-Motor ESCs on my quads and they all have that sort of pad design. The way that I learned to get around the solder seeping through to the other side is to use some masking tape on the backside to cover the hole while soldering. I use blue 3M tape and have had no issues. Just a tip if you care.
HEYYYY that is my Apex and Vista antenna mount design! :-) I am happy you like it. I have had the exact same issue as you, just a few months earlier. This mount has held up really well and also allows the antenna to flex just enough not to get damaged. Just one tip: apply a little blob of CA glue on the Vista antenna tube and the circular antenna casing. I noticed that seems to get loose over time.
Great summary at the end. I almost exclusively fly KISS/FETTEC, but it’s not because it has some magic that makes it immensely better than anything else. For me, it just always works to get the result I want with minimal effort, whereas with other systems I found I was unable to get there without a lot of tuning effort. For other people, the opposite is true. Fly what works for you.
Kiss tune gets very affected by the weight. The tune I got on my main quad is almost the same as the one you use here. But that's with a session. If you put a hero 8 it will change slightly. The first point you made it's exactly why I prefer kiss, just tell me where to put the cables, I don't want to mess around with 20 uarts. And finally I totally agree with the final thoughts, fly what fits you. Kiss fits me perfect, I am on the same way of thinking kiss people have. But maybe not having an osd or ways to change the uarts offends you, then go beta. Fly what fits you.
Thank you again for the footage. I live overseas, far away from you, but every time you take a quad for a test flight, I got this feeling you are nearby at a well known and popular spot. Take care!
I started watching you three years ago JB and we have come a long way from the components we started with. Im on my third Fettec F7 build so far i have used nothing but the 35amp 20x20 esc with a 45amp or 50amp low esr compasiter. And i have run this stack on 6s & 4s.4inch & 5inch builds.. Once you figure out what you can do with 💋 Kiss the builds get a lot easier. On stock pids without any presets prop wash is near non existent! And i do love the simplicity of tunning with Kiss because i suck at tunning 3.5.7 above Betaflight . Adjust the rates and throttle curve & fly it some more! You will see that it is different for sure😀 PS: The Fettec configurator has a new firmware update for the esc. I was running one wire. But for the last 10 packs i been running Dshot 2400 without any issues!
You can change the functionality of each UART in the KISS setup. When you clicked on 'Advance Serial Settings,' you can then select each one to do a different function.
Like the phrase, "Let's Move On, with the build." as the mantra of your drawbacks in life... Keep using it, for all of us have them too. So just " Let's Move ON with the build."... Besides an expert is one who has done everything wrong and now knows how to do it right.
I just ordered FETtec’s FC and 4-in-1 45a ESC with the cap and spike module this morning. I plan on putting it on a catalyst Bang God frame in 6s trim as soon as everything comes in. This video could not have come at a more perfect time. Thanks, Joshua. Edit: I feel there is definitely something different with KISS. Being a novice pilot, it gave me tons of confidence I don't have on any of my BF quads. Maybe you and other pilots that are just so good that your flight style includes the reflexes and reactions that those of us whom are less experienced don't have... and can therefore notice the difference of KISS?
You can get camera plates used on the HD Apex frame, they come with spacers for the camera and they are’s drilled to move the dji camera forward slightly so you don’t get the front standoffs in view with camera angles below around 30 degrees. Unfortunately you can’t just buy the standard Apex frame with HD camera plates as an option.
Be careful with vertical mount of capacitor. Need to check that it is enough room. Otherwise you can burn the whole stack after crash, when top plate shortcut your capacitor. I had this issue ))
Really enjoyed this video Joshua. I was one of those people that got a kiss/fettec stack after that rotor riot episode where they made it seem like the most amazing thing. I did this EXACT build on a Glide frame. I found that I actually like betaflight better. Kiss might be better feeling (I can’t feel it though), but absolutely nothing ground breaking like I expected or people say. Actually kind of relieved because I’ve come to learn betaflight so well that the “simplicity” of kiss gui is actually more confusing lol. Glad I can confidently stay on betaflight with some mild tuning guidelines by UAVTech. Wish I saw this video before buying that kiss stack though!
You can use serial 1 for dji as well and just change it the serial tab. Kiss on a stock tune does fly better than stock betaflight for sure. I recently did the same build with a set of the vanover 2207 1860kv, but it's funny just how much alike we think when we built ours, I did the same exact spike absorbers and cap setup and put it in the same spot I just used 3m rubber foam double sided, but I soldered it to a closer motor cap spot. Anyways nice build. Oh yeah I got fettec beta firmware on my esc to run dshot 2400, amazing!
I literally have all these parts sitting in front of me right now, I tried this exact build last summer but couldn't get it to work so I went betaflight instead. Now I'm going to retry.
I would like to point out something that t-motors has started doing which i love. By placing all the pin headers and USB port on the same side of the board you can get a lot tighter and clean build.
I just built a Fettec/KISS quad for the first time after flying Betaflight since basically the first day it came out. No doubt it's out of the box tune for a 5" is superb - but at this point - I'm just more comfortable with Betaflight and it's actually less complicated for me since I already know it so well. Given that I know BF so well, I can get a quad in a position that flies better _for my tastes_ faster / easier than with KISS and *cough* with a stack that's half the price. And because I'm a nerd, if something doesn't make sense with BF I can look at the code and if i'm bothered enough - can just write a change for myself. And some of the simplest configuration / quality of life things aren't available in KISS - clearly I'm in the wrong mindset for K.I.S.S. though. But especially 5" with decent size motors, man, all the firmwares can be stellar these days.
I would love to see how that quad flies if you tune it to the absolute limit the way that Steele tuned his build. A preset (even a krunked golden preset) is never going to be AS TIGHT as a balls to the walls custom tune :)
Great info, thanks JB - I'm going to start this build now, just got the DJI Air unit delivery today -. (last part I was waiting on). Between yours and Vanover's build vids there should be no excuses save bad solder joints on the ECS pads that it should not fly great. I'll look for any more info you might provide on the tune for this build. Thanks again.
I have had 4 Betaflight 5" and one KISS V2 and I like how the KISS fly best. But com'on! KISS is not easier to set up. It might be easier to tune though. My next build will have FETtec, not because it is easier but because how it flies.
thank you Joshua, great video, I am able to make everything work, even the DJI remote controller by following ur steps. but so far still cannot make DJI OSD to work, (no voltage, no timer after arm)
Just love how you achieve separation of the power and signalling cables going to the vista ( as a Comms engineer of ten years just like that amount of detail ) then apologize and explain how it could of been attached to the same plug as the signalling pathways 🤣👌😁😂🙂😉🖖✌️👍
So just bought my first Fettec 45 amp ESC and installed it last night. Just went to test fly and quad flipped like props were on wrong. Watching your video I just realized I put the ESC in Plug facing down and writing facing up. Apparently that is upside down. Lmao. Oops.....
I did almost this exact same build last week except I made a plug for the Crossfire RX as well as the Vista. I have nothing soldered to the FC, not that I mind soldering, just no chance of pads being ripped off the board since the Crossfire RX plug connector is on the bottom of the FC (and it looks so clean with the top plate off).
I use vista on UART1.. But I do like the serial 3 plug because it has all the power and everything you need for the vista. UART1 definitely does work tho Also, you were flying on stock rates lol try Steeles rates
Not sure how effective your spike absorber will be with wires that long. I have a Mamba F7 Mini stack that would not fly unless the capacitor was soldered directly on the pads. Any amount of motor extension wires, even less than 1cm would do nothing. Also in my experience, I've run extension wires not even as long as that on analog quads and did absolutely nothing to clean up video feed, had to make them way smaller.
I own ~30 quads and 5 of them are KISS'd quads and I feel the difference! I don't know why, but I like flying KISS'd quads more than any other quad (BetaFlight/KISS/FalcoX/RaceFlight).
Hmm..I'm setting up mine now. Looking at the wiring diagram. My f7 kiss board has a bridge to switch from 5v to 14v for the vtx plug. So I guess they were listening..except it's still a plug..
Haha if this isn't entertainment boys then I don't know what is! Also I'm thinking the reason why you felt a difference between Steele's build and this one is a combination of the latency from DJI and the slower rates. And great fly JB. Your one hell of a pilot these days.
"I like cap head screws" he says, as he stuffs them into countersunk holes. :x I like the SH cable set, wish it was available from a UK retailer. I wish you had tried the new FX / ESC / Krunked PIDs on the quad with the original analog setup before trying it with the extra weight and latency of the Vista in order to set a baseline. I'm not seeing the "simple" part of Kiss from your video, it all just to be the same level of complexity as any other software - Just different.
I think moving to the DJI VTX/Camera is what gave you the disconnected feelling... you really can't beat the low latency of those CCD Ethix/Runcam cameras...
Yeah I have to agree on there not being huge differences in BF and KISS or any other FC software I've used. I just recently 'upgraded' an Armattan Badger to the same FETtec FC and ESC you used as I wanted to know what all the hype was about and it's excellent don't get me wrong. I'm very happy with it. However I also have a second quadcopter with a premium BF FC and a premium BLHeli32 ESC and if anything at this moment in time it actually flys a little better than my KISS build. To be fair I haven't really got into tuning on the KISS build yet so I believe once that's done they will feel very similar. I do find propwash handling is definitely better on KISS straight away, and I like that there isn't quite so much to change. Personally I like both though and I don't regret either, but anyone who tells you one is massively better than the other is just plain wrong. As regards to FPV cameras I kinda get what you mean when it comes to latency. I flown Runcam Split cameras for a very long time which were known for high latency and then I built a quadcopter with a Runcam Micro Swift 2 in it and straight away I felt like I could hit gaps that I wouldn't of dreamed of doing before. Funny thing is I'm thinking of getting DJI next month so it will be like going backwards in a way. One other thing though. Why select FETtec OneWire when it only supports DShot600 and that ESC supports DShot2400? I've been running mine on DShot2400, but I'll switch to OneWire if it's going to benefit me.
the best thing about KISS/FETTECT is you can just get up and fly, i HATE spending hours or multiple sessions messing with filters and different presets that never work because lets face it every single build out there is different and presets don't work as well as you think they should, KISS just works, also you can just use the plug that comes with the vista just need to swap the wires around and I'm also using serial 1
Just a quick tip for anyone who REALLY has to use wires between the capacitor and ESC : twist the wires as much as possible, and keep the wires as short as possible. Otherwise, there is possibility to introduce pretty bad behavior and end up blowing up the capacitor (and maybe ESC)
Thanks! I did the same building with Xnova 1900kv motors. But faced with oscillations on a high throttle even using the lowest PID values. If any thoughts how to avoid it, I'm open. )
I've been waiting for 2 months for my fettec f7 board to ship from getfpv. When I ordered no one had the f7 in stock, since then other retailers got the f7 in stock and since sold out
Update: I got some interesting feedback after flying my version of this build and I can tell you that it feels immensely different when compared to my Flyduino version, which is virtually identical except for the ESC and FC. I tested the "Krunked Golden Starting Point" PIDs which resulted in what feels like higher latency. I get a somewhat similar result when using my normal PID tune, which is Mr Steele's PIDs with some slight modifications. So you're not alone JB and I am inclined to think it is something that can be tuned out, because I get no such effect when ripping my Flyduino version, quite the opposite in fact. Everything I do on the FETTEC version feels dampened. Another frustrating oddity that turned up during my test flights was the fact that my rates felt waaaay off. Both ROLL and PITCH axes seem to be order of magnitude more sensitive, which is something I've never experienced between builds (I have 2 custom builds and 1 pre-built.) It almost feels like I'm getting more power out of the motors or something. Have you ever experienced this before? Full stick YAW spin also returns in a lot of altitude gain, which is something I've only had to deal with on my BetaFlight build and is one of the reasons I switched from BF to KISS, so I'm especially praying that I can tune that out specifically. Hopefully a simple tweak to the P/I-term will eliminate the issue. At the end of the day... I don't really know how I should feel. I was hoping that I'd be able to simply transfer over my PIDs/rates and do a little tweaking to get up in the air, but now it appears I need to take a trip down to tune town. At least the ESC is better rated for 6S than my Flyduino ESC. The quad feels incredibly smooth and I had barely any propwash (flying in 15 to 20mph wind) but in its current state, the blissfully sharp maneuvering I was banking on just isn't there yet.
I built Steeles analog version about a year ago and I love it. Flying fpv for 6 years tends to give you the ability to notice changes in flight characteristics for the good or worse. Hearing your experience with fettec compared to kiss v2 is concerning bc I don’t want my flight characteristics to change. With that being said, I want to pull the trigger on a digital build/setup. I’m familiar with kiss and have been using it for years but hearing that fettec’s version feels “off” puts me at a crossroads. I don’t really know what the best kiss digital setup is right now..
@@jcard_fpv6356 Ya man, it's a lot of money to drop and not have the quad fly as expected. However, my issue might be local to my build specifically. For all I know, what JB is experiencing is simply the latency difference between analog vs digital. I ended up changing my rates for the FETTEC build and it was immediately clear they were slower, so the perception of higher rates was likely due to something else. Currently, the only com protocol that can be used is FETTEC Onewire, which is equivalent to DSHOT600; I'm not sure how much that affects the feeling of latency though. I was also suspecting an issue with the receiver after my radio's signal alarm started going off repeatedly despite my link sitting at around 95... but that is a new issue so I doubt that's the source of my original problem. Mounting the Nano RX directly onto the FC might not have been the best idea, even though it looks so damn clean! Anyways, given you will feel latency more so with higher rates, lowering them alleviated a lot of the issue, but it's still not what I expected to have to do. Something else to keep in mind is the wind speed in every area I've flown in the last week has been 10-20mph, which at the upper end of that range is nearly unflyable. I was bouncing around between my Flyduino and FETTEC and still noticing the sluggishness, but then yesterday I had a really great flight with the FETTEC that felt much much closer to my Flyduino after some PID tuning. I just don't know. It doesn't hurt to go with Flyduino boards though, unless you want to avoid spending the extra $40. One downside to the Flyduino ESC is the onboard capacitors having a lower voltage rating and it's recommended to slap on a larger capacitor compared to the 470uf 50V you can put on the FETTEC ESC. Or maybe you don't use a cap at all! With all that said, I'm really new to FPV (3 months, didn't even know how to solder) so consider feedback from others as well. This is my 3rd 5" build and I certainly could have messed something up. I've played competitive FPS games my whole life, notably Quake Live, so I'm hyper sensitive to minor changes in performance that others have told me they don't feel at all, which has translated to just about everything I do, including FPV. Although, seeing as you've been flying FPV for 6 years, you'll very likely notice those changes as well. I'm thinking about turning one of my KISS quads into an analog build. I really want to have some spare goggles so I can fly with friends and wouldn't mind a quad with lower latency if it's actually that noticeable. From everything I've read, it would be about a 10-15ms difference, plus no variable latency and a 30g reduction to the AUW. Have you flown DJI before at all and if so, have you felt the difference in latency? I suspect Shark Byte to improve as time goes on which is another reason I'm thinking about picking up some analog goggles.
You need to pair the FETTEC+DJI combo with TBS Tracer in order to get the latency down again and regain that locked-in feeling. Just like Vanover did with his dream quad.
joshua, hard to see, but i guess you're using this rubber absorber for soft mounting the FC, right? KISS or F. Niessen recommends hardmount for KISS. What do you say about that? Thanks! I also see that Vanover is using them too for softmounting ...
I am using the rubber bumpers that originally came on the Steele build. I guess I would have to check whether he still uses them now that he has moved to FETTEC.
I fly fast rates like steele.. u can just change the middle number to the devs/sec u want.. but here are my rates. For anyone that wants to know 1.45/0.75/0.54 roll 1.45/0.75/0.54 pitch 1.43/0.74/0.22 yaw
My Fettec 45amp esc, just beeps twice when I plug it in, and only 3 blue lights flash? I tried to reflash it with the fettec gui, but it does not see the escs?
Full watch bud . I really enjoyed this video. BTW I swear I heard you say. O Philly.. at the end.. well thank you sir for the shout out.. maybe? Not really? Lol. I've always wanted to try kiss... Mikey
I don't know, but it looks that it flies worse, than Steele's version. Like the propwash was obviously worse and this was even more twitchy and the motors sounds more rough. And you definitely should yours rates on this as well or those same as you flew with Steele's Apex. But it's crazy how much diference it makes after few small changes.
Dont be fooled by that. Kiss is different how it handles pid loop, esc, filtering. Fly 10 packs on bf and another 10packs on well tunned kiss. You will not look the same back to bf after this. Kiss just adds that AI element to your moves and kind of a predicts pid errors :) Joshua like UAVTech dude probably are trying to play some dirty games against rising star ;)
I like my kwad to hover when its going 80 and it loses signal it keeps going ! At least with hover it will slow it down before crashing and dropping out ! Just a tip !
KISS is a interesting world. I never knew you could have those user presets available. Does BF?? Interested in trying it. I’ll purchase with your link. Thxs!😎
@Joshua Bardwell can you make a video on the BQE Bandolero 5in I just built one with the Fettec 45 amp ESC and the Fettec Kiss F7 smoothest flight I’ve ever flown and I have 10 different Kwads
Just saw you used steel screws instead of nylon. Is there any benefit? Cause I always think the energy from the impact better breaks my nylon standoffs than getting transfered to my ESC or Flight Controller.
All KISS,Betaflight,Emuflight etc has their own advantages and disadvantages. Neither of them is better than others. Stop comparing them with each other. Just pick the one you like and have fun. I am a betaflight user and so happy with it.
I always zip tie the vista antenna to one of the rear frame post or standoffs or how do you call them 😋? So it's mounted straight up. I am not a fan of 3D printed parts because they add weight fast.
Mr. Joshua Bardwell would you be willing to sell me the original OSD, and Regulator board/kiss wiring harness that came with the Apex frame initially? I’ve looked online and they appear to be out of stock everywhere?
you say you can't solder the air unit directly to fc due to no solder point available but I see a bat + directly next to the plug u plugged into also top right of fc has rx1 and tx1 with a ground. why won't this work ?
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
I forgot to put the disclaimer on this video. All the products in this video were purchased by me except the FETTEC F7 which was sent by FETTEC.
except for the flight footage that was paid for with steele's soul when you added all the latency back
The idle up setup on the transmitter kinda confused me
So why dont you only use Kiss FC or FC+ESC on a different frame/motors etc to see if its all about Kiss FC/ESC... Would be a great video... Wanna see if you will still get same locked feel... And use analog fpv again to put latency aside...
@@kingnothingfpv2303 interesting very interesting
@Joshua Bardwell
Have you done another updated video on this ? I'd be very interested in seeing Vannys take on setting up the FETTEC....
His CL1 Build looked great, also the comments from other pilots was promising re: smoothness and negated prop wash.
Cheers 🍻
Joshua, you mention the little holes in the pads being difficult to deal with in terms of soldering. I use T-Motor ESCs on my quads and they all have that sort of pad design. The way that I learned to get around the solder seeping through to the other side is to use some masking tape on the backside to cover the hole while soldering. I use blue 3M tape and have had no issues. Just a tip if you care.
HEYYYY that is my Apex and Vista antenna mount design! :-) I am happy you like it. I have had the exact same issue as you, just a few months earlier. This mount has held up really well and also allows the antenna to flex just enough not to get damaged. Just one tip: apply a little blob of CA glue on the Vista antenna tube and the circular antenna casing. I noticed that seems to get loose over time.
Great summary at the end. I almost exclusively fly KISS/FETTEC, but it’s not because it has some
magic that makes it immensely better than anything else. For me, it just always works to get the result I want with minimal effort, whereas with other systems I found I was unable to get there without a lot of tuning effort. For other people, the opposite is true. Fly what works for you.
Fettec is amazing !!! I just recently build one and flew on krunks. Its smoothy and mushhy good
Lost footage killed a personal comedy project I was working on.
I feel you man.
Kiss tune gets very affected by the weight. The tune I got on my main quad is almost the same as the one you use here. But that's with a session. If you put a hero 8 it will change slightly.
The first point you made it's exactly why I prefer kiss, just tell me where to put the cables, I don't want to mess around with 20 uarts.
And finally I totally agree with the final thoughts, fly what fits you. Kiss fits me perfect, I am on the same way of thinking kiss people have. But maybe not having an osd or ways to change the uarts offends you, then go beta. Fly what fits you.
Thank you again for the footage.
I live overseas, far away from you, but every time you take a quad for a test flight, I got this feeling you are nearby at a well known and popular spot. Take care!
I started watching you three years ago JB and we have come a long way from the components we started with. Im on my third Fettec F7 build so far i have used nothing but the 35amp 20x20 esc with a 45amp or 50amp low esr compasiter. And i have run this stack on 6s & 4s.4inch & 5inch builds.. Once you figure out what you can do with 💋 Kiss the builds get a lot easier. On stock pids without any presets prop wash is near non existent! And i do love the simplicity of tunning with Kiss because i suck at tunning 3.5.7 above Betaflight . Adjust the rates and throttle curve & fly it some more! You will see that it is different for sure😀
PS: The Fettec configurator has a new firmware update for the esc. I was running one wire. But for the last 10 packs i been running Dshot 2400 without any issues!
Lol, I was just watching the Apex vs Cidora video when the notification for this popped up.
You can change the functionality of each UART in the KISS setup. When you clicked on 'Advance Serial Settings,' you can then select each one to do a different function.
Like the phrase, "Let's Move On, with the build." as the mantra of your drawbacks in life... Keep using it, for all of us have them too. So just " Let's Move ON with the build."... Besides an expert is one who has done everything wrong and now knows how to do it right.
Those pre crimped wiring kits with the plugs are so handy.
Indeed, sir! Used mine last night. Got it from pyrodrone a while back
@@tshirtfactory07 great things to have around, man.
Can you do review of the vannover cl1 fettec build?
That's a great idea
I mean its literally almost the same except for the frame and the motors
I just ordered FETtec’s FC and 4-in-1 45a ESC with the cap and spike module this morning. I plan on putting it on a catalyst Bang God frame in 6s trim as soon as everything comes in. This video could not have come at a more perfect time. Thanks, Joshua.
Edit: I feel there is definitely something different with KISS. Being a novice pilot, it gave me tons of confidence I don't have on any of my BF quads. Maybe you and other pilots that are just so good that your flight style includes the reflexes and reactions that those of us whom are less experienced don't have... and can therefore notice the difference of KISS?
You can get camera plates used on the HD Apex frame, they come with spacers for the camera and they are’s drilled to move the dji camera forward slightly so you don’t get the front standoffs in view with camera angles below around 30 degrees. Unfortunately you can’t just buy the standard Apex frame with HD camera plates as an option.
Be careful with vertical mount of capacitor. Need to check that it is enough room. Otherwise you can burn the whole stack after crash, when top plate shortcut your capacitor. I had this issue ))
Really enjoyed this video Joshua. I was one of those people that got a kiss/fettec stack after that rotor riot episode where they made it seem like the most amazing thing. I did this EXACT build on a Glide frame. I found that I actually like betaflight better. Kiss might be better feeling (I can’t feel it though), but absolutely nothing ground breaking like I expected or people say. Actually kind of relieved because I’ve come to learn betaflight so well that the “simplicity” of kiss gui is actually more confusing lol. Glad I can confidently stay on betaflight with some mild tuning guidelines by UAVTech. Wish I saw this video before buying that kiss stack though!
Mr Steele components on the DJI quad for the next video 🙃
You can use serial 1 for dji as well and just change it the serial tab. Kiss on a stock tune does fly better than stock betaflight for sure. I recently did the same build with a set of the vanover 2207 1860kv, but it's funny just how much alike we think when we built ours, I did the same exact spike absorbers and cap setup and put it in the same spot I just used 3m rubber foam double sided, but I soldered it to a closer motor cap spot. Anyways nice build. Oh yeah I got fettec beta firmware on my esc to run dshot 2400, amazing!
I literally have all these parts sitting in front of me right now, I tried this exact build last summer but couldn't get it to work so I went betaflight instead. Now I'm going to retry.
I would like to point out something that t-motors has started doing which i love. By placing all the pin headers and USB port on the same side of the board you can get a lot tighter and clean build.
Woah your flying greatly improved!
FETtec is the shit!
I just built a Fettec/KISS quad for the first time after flying Betaflight since basically the first day it came out. No doubt it's out of the box tune for a 5" is superb - but at this point - I'm just more comfortable with Betaflight and it's actually less complicated for me since I already know it so well. Given that I know BF so well, I can get a quad in a position that flies better _for my tastes_ faster / easier than with KISS and *cough* with a stack that's half the price. And because I'm a nerd, if something doesn't make sense with BF I can look at the code and if i'm bothered enough - can just write a change for myself. And some of the simplest configuration / quality of life things aren't available in KISS - clearly I'm in the wrong mindset for K.I.S.S. though. But especially 5" with decent size motors, man, all the firmwares can be stellar these days.
That new short opening is great!
I watch your outros every time to the end. love them :D
Don't we all? And I'm not even planning to tackle a kiss build...
When I fly betaflight I think wow it flies really well. And when I fly with Kiss I think, wow, it flies really well. I like them both.✌️😃
It’s a f***ing beast! Krunked a beast
I would love to see how that quad flies if you tune it to the absolute limit the way that Steele tuned his build. A preset (even a krunked golden preset) is never going to be AS TIGHT as a balls to the walls custom tune :)
Joshua updates please :) thanks in advance
Great info, thanks JB - I'm going to start this build now, just got the DJI Air unit delivery today -. (last part I was waiting on). Between yours and Vanover's build vids there should be no excuses save bad solder joints on the ECS pads that it should not fly great. I'll look for any more info you might provide on the tune for this build. Thanks again.
I was hoppy for this video 😍
The sad part is not the lost footage... it is talking to yourself for 30 mins... 😆 Entertainment as always and yes I learned something!
I have had 4 Betaflight 5" and one KISS V2 and I like how the KISS fly best. But com'on! KISS is not easier to set up. It might be easier to tune though.
My next build will have FETtec, not because it is easier but because how it flies.
Didn‘t knew that you should use RX3 for DJI! So I soldered it on RX1! 😱
Works well! 😂
thank you Joshua, great video, I am able to make everything work, even the DJI remote controller by following ur steps. but so far still cannot make DJI OSD to work, (no voltage, no timer after arm)
Just love how you achieve separation of the power and signalling cables going to the vista ( as a Comms engineer of ten years just like that amount of detail ) then apologize and explain how it could of been attached to the same plug as the signalling pathways 🤣👌😁😂🙂😉🖖✌️👍
It's not differential signaling so I'm not sure it really matters.
@@JoshuaBardwell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So just bought my first Fettec 45 amp ESC and installed it last night. Just went to test fly and quad flipped like props were on wrong. Watching your video I just realized I put the ESC in Plug facing down and writing facing up. Apparently that is upside down. Lmao. Oops.....
I did almost this exact same build last week except I made a plug for the Crossfire RX as well as the Vista. I have nothing soldered to the FC, not that I mind soldering, just no chance of pads being ripped off the board since the Crossfire RX plug connector is on the bottom of the FC (and it looks so clean with the top plate off).
This video came at the perfect friggin. Time man as I'm about to build an Apex Fettec KiSS build. Stop reading my mind. Bardwell
Just build it already man
@@OriginaldoBo it's mostly your fault ken I'm not going to lie dude
Some great videos recently JB. Im checking out some items thanks to you and getting back in the game.
127 is old firmware for ESC. There are fairly new ones. I would go for the latest one. Thanks for sharing. Cheers mate
Krunked knows his shit with tuning, highly recommend
🤣love your self deprecating humour 🤙
I use vista on UART1..
But I do like the serial 3 plug because it has all the power and everything you need for the vista. UART1 definitely does work tho
Also, you were flying on stock rates lol try Steeles rates
Not sure how effective your spike absorber will be with wires that long. I have a Mamba F7 Mini stack that would not fly unless the capacitor was soldered directly on the pads. Any amount of motor extension wires, even less than 1cm would do nothing. Also in my experience, I've run extension wires not even as long as that on analog quads and did absolutely nothing to clean up video feed, had to make them way smaller.
My build with the exception I use a Badger frame. So good I now have 4 of em!
I own ~30 quads and 5 of them are KISS'd quads and I feel the difference! I don't know why, but I like flying KISS'd quads more than any other quad (BetaFlight/KISS/FalcoX/RaceFlight).
and also FetTec is the best of all KISS hardware!
Hmm..I'm setting up mine now. Looking at the wiring diagram. My f7 kiss board has a bridge to switch from 5v to 14v for the vtx plug. So I guess they were listening..except it's still a plug..
Haha if this isn't entertainment boys then I don't know what is! Also I'm thinking the reason why you felt a difference between Steele's build and this one is a combination of the latency from DJI and the slower rates. And great fly JB. Your one hell of a pilot these days.
"I like cap head screws" he says, as he stuffs them into countersunk holes. :x
I like the SH cable set, wish it was available from a UK retailer.
I wish you had tried the new FX / ESC / Krunked PIDs on the quad with the original analog setup before trying it with the extra weight and latency of the Vista in order to set a baseline.
I'm not seeing the "simple" part of Kiss from your video, it all just to be the same level of complexity as any other software - Just different.
I think moving to the DJI VTX/Camera is what gave you the disconnected feelling... you really can't beat the low latency of those CCD Ethix/Runcam cameras...
That Joshua Guy from the future good guy to have in your timeline📱👍🏼👍🏼
Yes!!!! That Uart is nearly impossible to get solder to stick too. Cost me one FC already
Yeah I have to agree on there not being huge differences in BF and KISS or any other FC software I've used. I just recently 'upgraded' an Armattan Badger to the same FETtec FC and ESC you used as I wanted to know what all the hype was about and it's excellent don't get me wrong. I'm very happy with it. However I also have a second quadcopter with a premium BF FC and a premium BLHeli32 ESC and if anything at this moment in time it actually flys a little better than my KISS build. To be fair I haven't really got into tuning on the KISS build yet so I believe once that's done they will feel very similar. I do find propwash handling is definitely better on KISS straight away, and I like that there isn't quite so much to change. Personally I like both though and I don't regret either, but anyone who tells you one is massively better than the other is just plain wrong.
As regards to FPV cameras I kinda get what you mean when it comes to latency. I flown Runcam Split cameras for a very long time which were known for high latency and then I built a quadcopter with a Runcam Micro Swift 2 in it and straight away I felt like I could hit gaps that I wouldn't of dreamed of doing before. Funny thing is I'm thinking of getting DJI next month so it will be like going backwards in a way.
One other thing though. Why select FETtec OneWire when it only supports DShot600 and that ESC supports DShot2400? I've been running mine on DShot2400, but I'll switch to OneWire if it's going to benefit me.
the best thing about KISS/FETTECT is you can just get up and fly, i HATE spending hours or multiple sessions messing with filters and different presets that never work because lets face it every single build out there is different and presets don't work as well as you think they should, KISS just works, also you can just use the plug that comes with the vista just need to swap the wires around and I'm also using serial 1
Just a quick tip for anyone who REALLY has to use wires between the capacitor and ESC : twist the wires as much as possible, and keep the wires as short as possible. Otherwise, there is possibility to introduce pretty bad behavior and end up blowing up the capacitor (and maybe ESC)
Lol I noticed the new fence panels... or lack thereof. 😀
WOW... Bardwell on kiss.... Did hell just froze? ;) DSHOT600? ;)
Great video as always Joshua
Thanks! I did the same building with Xnova 1900kv motors. But faced with oscillations on a high throttle even using the lowest PID values. If any thoughts how to avoid it, I'm open. )
Wonderful !!’ Can I use it with my dji v1 controller??? With out crossfire system?
If your a heathen, your Ok. This vid was Sweet, thanks Joshua.
No problem with Vista soldered on UART1 pads :) Nice video !
It's always faster the second time JB. Yeah. Don't think about it. There's nothing wrong with that.
The reason the TX and RX has holes on the FC is so that you can direct solder the TBS Receiver to the FC via direct solder stand off.
Those are the edge pads I think. These holes are not through hole they are tiny vias.
I've been waiting for 2 months for my fettec f7 board to ship from getfpv. When I ordered no one had the f7 in stock, since then other retailers got the f7 in stock and since sold out
How did you get the voltage to read in the OSD? Mine just says 0
Very interesting content I watch your videos mostly for the entertainment
Update: I got some interesting feedback after flying my version of this build and I can tell you that it feels immensely different when compared to my Flyduino version, which is virtually identical except for the ESC and FC. I tested the "Krunked Golden Starting Point" PIDs which resulted in what feels like higher latency. I get a somewhat similar result when using my normal PID tune, which is Mr Steele's PIDs with some slight modifications. So you're not alone JB and I am inclined to think it is something that can be tuned out, because I get no such effect when ripping my Flyduino version, quite the opposite in fact. Everything I do on the FETTEC version feels dampened.
Another frustrating oddity that turned up during my test flights was the fact that my rates felt waaaay off. Both ROLL and PITCH axes seem to be order of magnitude more sensitive, which is something I've never experienced between builds (I have 2 custom builds and 1 pre-built.) It almost feels like I'm getting more power out of the motors or something. Have you ever experienced this before? Full stick YAW spin also returns in a lot of altitude gain, which is something I've only had to deal with on my BetaFlight build and is one of the reasons I switched from BF to KISS, so I'm especially praying that I can tune that out specifically. Hopefully a simple tweak to the P/I-term will eliminate the issue.
At the end of the day... I don't really know how I should feel. I was hoping that I'd be able to simply transfer over my PIDs/rates and do a little tweaking to get up in the air, but now it appears I need to take a trip down to tune town. At least the ESC is better rated for 6S than my Flyduino ESC. The quad feels incredibly smooth and I had barely any propwash (flying in 15 to 20mph wind) but in its current state, the blissfully sharp maneuvering I was banking on just isn't there yet.
And here I am after driving an hour out to tune and of course I forget to bring my laptop........
At least I brought my Flyduino build.
I built Steeles analog version about a year ago and I love it. Flying fpv for 6 years tends to give you the ability to notice changes in flight characteristics for the good or worse. Hearing your experience with fettec compared to kiss v2 is concerning bc I don’t want my flight characteristics to change.
With that being said, I want to pull the trigger on a digital build/setup. I’m familiar with kiss and have been using it for years but hearing that fettec’s version feels “off” puts me at a crossroads. I don’t really know what the best kiss digital setup is right now..
@@jcard_fpv6356 Ya man, it's a lot of money to drop and not have the quad fly as expected. However, my issue might be local to my build specifically. For all I know, what JB is experiencing is simply the latency difference between analog vs digital. I ended up changing my rates for the FETTEC build and it was immediately clear they were slower, so the perception of higher rates was likely due to something else. Currently, the only com protocol that can be used is FETTEC Onewire, which is equivalent to DSHOT600; I'm not sure how much that affects the feeling of latency though. I was also suspecting an issue with the receiver after my radio's signal alarm started going off repeatedly despite my link sitting at around 95... but that is a new issue so I doubt that's the source of my original problem. Mounting the Nano RX directly onto the FC might not have been the best idea, even though it looks so damn clean! Anyways, given you will feel latency more so with higher rates, lowering them alleviated a lot of the issue, but it's still not what I expected to have to do.
Something else to keep in mind is the wind speed in every area I've flown in the last week has been 10-20mph, which at the upper end of that range is nearly unflyable. I was bouncing around between my Flyduino and FETTEC and still noticing the sluggishness, but then yesterday I had a really great flight with the FETTEC that felt much much closer to my Flyduino after some PID tuning. I just don't know. It doesn't hurt to go with Flyduino boards though, unless you want to avoid spending the extra $40. One downside to the Flyduino ESC is the onboard capacitors having a lower voltage rating and it's recommended to slap on a larger capacitor compared to the 470uf 50V you can put on the FETTEC ESC. Or maybe you don't use a cap at all!
With all that said, I'm really new to FPV (3 months, didn't even know how to solder) so consider feedback from others as well. This is my 3rd 5" build and I certainly could have messed something up. I've played competitive FPS games my whole life, notably Quake Live, so I'm hyper sensitive to minor changes in performance that others have told me they don't feel at all, which has translated to just about everything I do, including FPV. Although, seeing as you've been flying FPV for 6 years, you'll very likely notice those changes as well.
I'm thinking about turning one of my KISS quads into an analog build. I really want to have some spare goggles so I can fly with friends and wouldn't mind a quad with lower latency if it's actually that noticeable. From everything I've read, it would be about a 10-15ms difference, plus no variable latency and a 30g reduction to the AUW. Have you flown DJI before at all and if so, have you felt the difference in latency? I suspect Shark Byte to improve as time goes on which is another reason I'm thinking about picking up some analog goggles.
You need to pair the FETTEC+DJI combo with TBS Tracer in order to get the latency down again and regain that locked-in feeling. Just like Vanover did with his dream quad.
Tracker sucks, go with ghost
joshua, hard to see, but i guess you're using this rubber absorber for soft mounting the FC, right? KISS or F. Niessen recommends hardmount for KISS. What do you say about that? Thanks! I also see that Vanover is using them too for softmounting ...
I am using the rubber bumpers that originally came on the Steele build. I guess I would have to check whether he still uses them now that he has moved to FETTEC.
I use the plug with ser3 and vbat in the plug for vista!
I fly fast rates like steele.. u can just change the middle number to the devs/sec u want.. but here are my rates. For anyone that wants to know
1.45/0.75/0.54 roll
1.45/0.75/0.54 pitch
1.43/0.74/0.22 yaw
I thinked to build a fettec. But after UavTech kiss configurator review, i started to cry xD Just ordered another F7 betaflight fc for my new build)
Definitely want to try one of these, all I've ever flown is BF. Haven't seen them in stock anywhere though :(
My Fettec 45amp esc, just beeps twice when I plug it in, and only 3 blue lights flash? I tried to reflash it with the fettec gui, but it does not see the escs?
Full watch bud . I really enjoyed this video. BTW I swear I heard you say. O Philly.. at the end.. well thank you sir for the shout out.. maybe? Not really? Lol. I've always wanted to try kiss...
Mikey
I don't know, but it looks that it flies worse, than Steele's version. Like the propwash was obviously worse and this was even more twitchy and the motors sounds more rough.
And you definitely should yours rates on this as well or those same as you flew with Steele's Apex.
But it's crazy how much diference it makes after few small changes.
This video answered so many questions for me 👍
Dont be fooled by that. Kiss is different how it handles pid loop, esc, filtering. Fly 10 packs on bf and another 10packs on well tunned kiss. You will not look the same back to bf after this. Kiss just adds that AI element to your moves and kind of a predicts pid errors :) Joshua like UAVTech dude probably are trying to play some dirty games against rising star ;)
thanks for showing your whole process with mistakes and stuff. Makes me fell less stupid ;)
Yeah, but now you hurt yourself cuz you fell! 🤪
Hey Joshua are you using gummies just to space the esc and fc or did you put gummies in each mounting hole as well?
Quality stuff Joshua. Thank you
I would definitely like BF more if the air mode worked like kiss' implementation. There are caveats for each.
Ahhh back to the good stuff!!
Lol that’s pretty much a new quad w all those changes.
Grandpas Boat analogy.
I like my kwad to hover when its going 80 and it loses signal it keeps going ! At least with hover it will slow it down before crashing and dropping out ! Just a tip !
holes on the pads are to mount the receiver directly to the pcb
I learned and laughed, mission accomplished.
KISS is a interesting world. I never knew you could have those user presets available. Does BF??
Interested in trying it. I’ll purchase with your link. Thxs!😎
BF 4.3 will have user presets.
@Joshua Bardwell can you make a video on the BQE Bandolero 5in I just built one with the Fettec 45 amp ESC and the Fettec Kiss F7 smoothest flight I’ve ever flown and I have 10 different Kwads
shoutout to Krunked!
Just saw you used steel screws instead of nylon. Is there any benefit? Cause I always think the energy from the impact better breaks my nylon standoffs than getting transfered to my ESC or Flight Controller.
I like the tooling!
Yeah man Krunked's tune is legit.
Haven't watched this yet.. but i bet he loves it
All KISS,Betaflight,Emuflight etc has their own advantages and disadvantages. Neither of them is better than others. Stop comparing them with each other. Just pick the one you like and have fun. I am a betaflight user and so happy with it.
After you add DJI and other expensive parts to it, does it become worth less than $900 because it's no longer an exact replica of his everyday quad?
It was worth less the day I flew it the first time.
@@JoshuaBardwell Well with the chip shortage I'm sure it's value has gone back up.
Having Issue's getting the coms on Kiss To display. Tried impulse driver and dfuse. Nor cp210x, Nothing, using win-10..Any Ideas????
I always zip tie the vista antenna to one of the rear frame post or standoffs or how do you call them 😋? So it's mounted straight up. I am not a fan of 3D printed parts because they add weight fast.
Mr. Joshua Bardwell would you be willing to sell me the original OSD, and Regulator board/kiss wiring harness that came with the Apex frame initially? I’ve looked online and they appear to be out of stock everywhere?
you say you can't solder the air unit directly to fc due to no solder point available but I see a bat + directly next to the plug u plugged into also top right of fc has rx1 and tx1 with a ground. why won't this work ?