how can you say there was no official old testament in the second century??? What were they reading daily in the temples way before Jesus arrived if they didn't?
I just discovered this channel and I don't know if someone already asked this question but can you recommend me some books about this part of christianity including the "heretics" and gnostics? I already read the Ioan Petru Cilianu books but I want some more and I don't know where to find the real good books. Thanks!
I never knew that the Catholics had tremendous Biblical and historical knowledge. I have been eating from the pig pan all of my life compare to Catholic knowledge. Because this kind of Biblical knowledge I have been hungry for. I was hungry for the foundation of Christianity what happened after the deaths of the apostles and how the Bible reached us. Very rich history. Thank you!
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10
Where you err is to think that some "authority" canonized a list of books (scrolls). The fact is that those books were considered canon by the first century apostles and prophets of the God who inspired them. The church didn't canonize those books, God did. "...and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him. God also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders and with divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost according to His own will." (Hebrews 2:3-4) The canon was already there and recognized by the church LONG before some council came along. It is presumptuous usurpation to presume that some ecclesiastical body magically called into being something that God had not already ordained.
The Book of Hebrews describes the Covenants as contracts (which they are). Contracts such as these cannot be concurrent. The first contract understood this and in Jeremiah, it describes the day when God would make a New Covenant (contract) with His people. Hebrews makes the point that, in that He saith "a New Covenant", He makes the first one Old. "Now that which decayeth and waxeth Old is ready to vanish away." (Heb. 8:13) The New Covenant REPLACES the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is invalid in today's post crucifixion economy. The blood of that perfect sacrifice (Jesus, the Son of God) confirmed the New Covenant. This is the point of the Lord's Supper. This is why Jesus said, "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." Without the shedding of His blood, we would all still be as dead as Adam was the day he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Those who do not believe they are eating His flesh and drinking His blood are not "doing THIS in memory of Him", they are doing something else. Protestantism, by and large, trivialized these rituals ordained by Christ and the apostles but if you examine them in light of the scriptures, you quickly understand that these are the teeth in the cogs of the mechanism of our salvation. You take out the teeth, you take out our salvation. You can easily see how they trivialize these rituals. In the New Testament, how long did they wait to baptize a new believer (convert)? Did they buffer them up and wait for a big baptismal service? No. Read the Book of Acts. When someone confessed the Lord Jesus, they were immediately baptized. Why? Because they believed that baptism was for the remission of sins (which most Protestants do not believe today. Ask any Baptist you happen to see). How long should one put off the remission of his sins? If they believed what God said about baptism, they wouldn't trivialize His ordnance. Same with the Lord's Supper. The New Testament disciples seemed to take the Lord's Supper on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week - the day that Jesus rose from the dead (see Acts 21:7)). They didn't wait until Easter or till the first Sunday of every quarter. Back then they didn't have an "Easter". New Testament Christianity doesn't have holy days, new moons, or sabbaths. They gathered on the first day of the week to eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood so that they would have life in them. It's just like Adam and Eve. How often did they eat of the Tree of Life? We don't know but I'd say it happened pretty often. How long would YOU go without eating of that Tree? But you listen to these people in their church services. They talk about, "This bread REPRESENTS His body", and "This cup REPRESENTS His blood." Jesus didn't say, "This represents my body", He said, "This IS my body". They change the truth of God's word into a lie and nobody calls them on it. Well buddy, I am. These are clouds without rain, spoiling our love feasts and I'm exposing it.
There are about 2-3 ideas in Origens theology to steer clear of even though they weren't considered unorthodox when he wrote. But besides that his ideas are enormously influential, important and often centuries ahead of their time. All theologians need to be read critically.
You do realize Origen Adamantius of Alexandria's PseudoTheoLogies are heresy and apostasy masquerading "as" "TheoLogies"? You do realize Athenagoras of Athens, Pantaenus of Alexandria, Titus Flavius Clemens of Alexandria, Origen Adamantius of Alexandria, Gregorius Thaumaturgus of Alexandria, Heraclas Theoclas of Alexandria, Dionysius of Alexandria, Dionysius of Alexandria, Didymus the Blind, Arius, Gregorius Nyssa, Gregorius Nazianzus, Basil of Caesarea, Hieronymus of Stridon, Nestorius, Peter Damien, Peter Lombard, AnSelm of CanterBury, Alexander of Hales, Bernard of Clairvaux, Albert Von Köhl, Tommaso D'Aquino, BonaVentura of Albino, Roberto Bellarmino, and Alfonsus Liguori, etc. some of whom are AntiSaints were apostates masqueraded "as" "TheoLogians" and are now in Hell? I strongly recommend you read Richard Joseph Michael Ibranyi's books johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br61_desecration_of_catholic_places.pdf (The Desecrations of CathOlIc Places) johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br63_great_apostasy.pdf (The Great Apostasy) johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br76_hellenization_of_christianity.pdf (The Hellenization of Christianity by the AntiChurch Fathers and the Scholastics) and listen to his lectures th-cam.com/video/BNAsez1x-Uc/w-d-xo.html (The Desecration of CathOlIc Places) th-cam.com/video/_yEDaQjDFnc/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 1: Art Imitates Reality: the Mixing of God and Religion with False "gods" and false "religions": the Feast of Fools) th-cam.com/video/FiWqdq-2j74/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 2: Zodiac and Other Occultic Practices and Pederasty and Other Sodomism) th-cam.com/video/4U3bTYqcVKc/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 3: Molestation and Corruption of Youth, Serial Fornication and Bastard Children, and ImMoral Plays, Dances, and Banquets) th-cam.com/video/ld0x57qHF3Q/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 4: General Corruption) th-cam.com/video/TXudd_RBe9w/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 5: Humanism and Humanists in the AntiPapal "Courts") th-cam.com/video/s04g5QOcakI/w-d-xo.html (The Chaining and UnChaining of Satan) th-cam.com/video/Vm5H4pLfe2M/w-d-xo.html (The AntiChurch Fathers and the Hellenization of Christianity) th-cam.com/video/pV4wyJ5g2c8/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 1 of 6: (True) PhiloSophy vs PseudoPhiloSophy) th-cam.com/video/6v3Vzzcznhc/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 2 of 6: Condemners of PseudoPhiloSophy vs Glorifiers of PseudoPhiloSophy) th-cam.com/video/UiYV2xPIVmg/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 3 of 6: PseudoScholastics and Other PseudoPhiloSophers Idolize Reason) th-cam.com/video/1aVmQOmRRIs/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 4 of 6: The Ways PseudoPhiloSophy or MythoLogy Are Glorified) th-cam.com/video/vscfnTUPy5c/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 5 of 6: Brief History of PseudoScholasticism) th-cam.com/video/6bmvuv_Mklg/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 6 of 6: PseudoTheoLogians Effectively Replaced the Magisterium and Tradition and the Bible) then watch Ryan Shenouda's video th-cam.com/video/TYLhAAe0JN0/w-d-xo.html (The Desecration of CathOlIc Places) then watch "Joshua Truther"'s videos th-cam.com/video/yx6Pajc909k/w-d-xo.html (Was Jesus a White Man or Brown Skinned Man? Does this reflect your Faith-Truthful or Deceitful?) th-cam.com/video/bsUlLHNoKLg/w-d-xo.html (Why did God the Son come As A Brown Man? Is worshipping "White "Jesus"" due to UnConscious Bias?) which prove the worldwide departure from the Ancient OrthoDox CathOlIc Church took place in the 11th century! #GeoCentra! #GeoStatic! #TerraPlana! #SedeVacanteMDDIIII!
just because Origen was judged as heretical, it does not mean ALL his works should be thrown away,,, Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.... Even ST. Paul quoted from PAgan sources....And the beginning of Gospel of John uses the world LOGOS , which is PAgan philosophical Word that originates from the SToic Philosophy ...
That's not true while they were written by hand, the Old Testament BIBLE the SEPTUAGINTA is a book of 325B.C. The Greeks had books. Allright they were written on metal plates bound in book form.
Thank you for the presentation. Did you say Iranaeus said that revelation closed with the book of John? He certainly doesn't sound like a cessationist in this wiki quote: "Irenaeus (d.202) was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book Against Heresies, Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual"."Those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years…. The name of our Lord Jesus Christ even now confers benefits [upon men], and cures thoroughly and effectively all who anywhere believe on Him".[19]"
Andrew Yliniemi i thought he said with the death of the apostles. Im reading that book online but haven’t got to that part (against heresies). Theyve got on you tube and librivox. However i did read his book “an example of the apostolic preaching”. There he does not say revelation is gone just infallibility. He calls the apostles understanding “perfect”, i believe was the exact term he used, due to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He says no one is walking any longer in that level of perfect understanding. In the book he actually criticizes people for rejecting prophesy and the gifts of the Holy Spirit (not kidding that is a direct quote). He says all must have the father son and spirit. The true revelation of the Father the word (the son) and the indwelling spirit. That book is a great introduction to Ireneaus and is like 23 hours shorter than against heresies.
Bright Light Irenaeus’ Against Heresies clearly condemned montanists for thinking gifts of the spirit like prophecy are no more, equating it with blaspheming the Homy Spirit. Whatever part you think implies cessation with Apostles is likely referring to there not being a new covenant or new gospel after the written New Testament.
Catsintexas. Dangerous business this picking and choosing what you like and don't like in terms of Scripture. Luther got rid if the Deuterocanonical text and he also wanted to get rid of Jude, James, half of Hebrews and Revelation. Talk about just taking what you like!!! I guess he never read Deuteronomy 4:2 or Revelation 22:18-19! It's unfortunate that it will undermine your discussions with atheists.
Luther didn’t remove any books from the Latin Vulgate, he just didn’t consider them inspired or authoritative. This isn’t really any different than Jerome’s distinction between the Canonicity of the old/New Testaments and of the ecclesiology of the Apocrypha. If you in your ignorance want to denigrate Luther, know that you are at the same time criticizing Saint Jerome and other Early Church Fathers as well.
@@felixcharles9773 Pray tell, by what authority would he pick and choose which Books to keep and which to remove from the Sacred Canon? He was a megalomaniac (yet brilliant) man with obvious mental health issues. Sadly, the issues (OCD at best, manic depression at worst) which he exhibited are often corrected with simple medication these days. Back to my supposed ignorance… Luther relegated the Deuterocanonical text to the “apocrypha” and placed it in a category of “useful yet uninspired” where it remained in Protestant Bibles until the time of the Second Great Awakening where it was discarded altogether. I stand by my original comment that this is dangerous business when you are picking and choosing that Scripture which fits your new narrative.
@@felixcharles9773 Which is what most protestants and non denominationals do.... Attack attack attack
6 ปีที่แล้ว +1
I actually like marcion's views. I agree with him. its a shame that he was cast out. I BELIEVE WHAT Marcion and Bart Ehrman believes about the old testament. Thomas Jefferson also thought that the old testament had a lot of junk in it. Jefferson was still a believer in Christ and new test. Modern Scholarship (even bible christian scholars) have found A LOT OF ERRORS and false history and BS in the old testament. Most of it was for Jews anyway, and not of us Christ believing Gentiles, so what do we care what is in the first 12 books of the bible. It contains violent and merciless junk and does not match up with New Test commands and instructions from Jesus and Paul. This is the truth! You have to wrap your mind around this. It is not a lie. The old test contains very embarrassing violent and cruel crap that Atheist debaters have a "field day" with against us christian believers which is why many young believers lose their faith in colleges and universities. Its the old testament that is a liability for our Faith in Christ and the new testament doctrines and promises.
I love how easy Catholics make it for non-Catholics to learn about the religion.
Thanks for watching
This is a great info regarding our catholic faith
Dr. Italy is a natural born teacher. A joy to listen to and to learn from. Thank you!
Thanks for watching
I'm very grateful for this video.
Thanks for watching it!
how can you say there was no official old testament in the second century??? What were they reading daily in the temples way before Jesus arrived if they didn't?
I just discovered this channel and I don't know if someone already asked this question but can you recommend me some books about this part of christianity including the "heretics" and gnostics? I already read the Ioan Petru Cilianu books but I want some more and I don't know where to find the real good books. Thanks!
I never knew that the Catholics had tremendous Biblical and historical knowledge. I have been eating from the pig pan all of my life compare to Catholic knowledge. Because this kind of Biblical knowledge I have been hungry for. I was hungry for the foundation of Christianity what happened after the deaths of the apostles and how the Bible reached us. Very rich history. Thank you!
Thanks for watching :)
the apostles that were alive during Paul's ministry declared he was authoritative which is how he made it into the new testament.
I read in "Against Heresies" Irenaeus trashing the concept of allegory. Yet Allegory seemed to be Origen's specialty.
Brilliant for explaining typology!!!
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:10
Where you err is to think that some "authority" canonized a list of books (scrolls). The fact is that those books were considered canon by the first century apostles and prophets of the God who inspired them. The church didn't canonize those books, God did.
"...and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him. God also bearing them witness both with signs and wonders and with divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost according to His own will." (Hebrews 2:3-4)
The canon was already there and recognized by the church LONG before some council came along. It is presumptuous usurpation to presume that some ecclesiastical body magically called into being something that God had not already ordained.
The Book of Hebrews describes the Covenants as contracts (which they are). Contracts such as these cannot be concurrent. The first contract understood this and in Jeremiah, it describes the day when God would make a New Covenant (contract) with His people. Hebrews makes the point that, in that He saith "a New Covenant", He makes the first one Old. "Now that which decayeth and waxeth Old is ready to vanish away." (Heb. 8:13)
The New Covenant REPLACES the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is invalid in today's post crucifixion economy. The blood of that perfect sacrifice (Jesus, the Son of God) confirmed the New Covenant. This is the point of the Lord's Supper. This is why Jesus said, "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." Without the shedding of His blood, we would all still be as dead as Adam was the day he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Those who do not believe they are eating His flesh and drinking His blood are not "doing THIS in memory of Him", they are doing something else.
Protestantism, by and large, trivialized these rituals ordained by Christ and the apostles but if you examine them in light of the scriptures, you quickly understand that these are the teeth in the cogs of the mechanism of our salvation. You take out the teeth, you take out our salvation.
You can easily see how they trivialize these rituals. In the New Testament, how long did they wait to baptize a new believer (convert)? Did they buffer them up and wait for a big baptismal service? No. Read the Book of Acts. When someone confessed the Lord Jesus, they were immediately baptized. Why? Because they believed that baptism was for the remission of sins (which most Protestants do not believe today. Ask any Baptist you happen to see). How long should one put off the remission of his sins? If they believed what God said about baptism, they wouldn't trivialize His ordnance. Same with the Lord's Supper. The New Testament disciples seemed to take the Lord's Supper on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week - the day that Jesus rose from the dead (see Acts 21:7)). They didn't wait until Easter or till the first Sunday of every quarter. Back then they didn't have an "Easter". New Testament Christianity doesn't have holy days, new moons, or sabbaths. They gathered on the first day of the week to eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood so that they would have life in them. It's just like Adam and Eve. How often did they eat of the Tree of Life? We don't know but I'd say it happened pretty often. How long would YOU go without eating of that Tree?
But you listen to these people in their church services. They talk about, "This bread REPRESENTS His body", and "This cup REPRESENTS His blood." Jesus didn't say, "This represents my body", He said, "This IS my body". They change the truth of God's word into a lie and nobody calls them on it. Well buddy, I am. These are clouds without rain, spoiling our love feasts and I'm exposing it.
You do realize Origen Adamantius of Alexandria was condemned by the 2nd EcuMenicAl Synod of Byzantium after his unorthodox writings were discovered?
There are about 2-3 ideas in Origens theology to steer clear of even though they weren't considered unorthodox when he wrote. But besides that his ideas are enormously influential, important and often centuries ahead of their time. All theologians need to be read critically.
You do realize Origen Adamantius of Alexandria's PseudoTheoLogies are heresy and apostasy masquerading "as" "TheoLogies"? You do realize Athenagoras of Athens, Pantaenus of Alexandria, Titus Flavius Clemens of Alexandria, Origen Adamantius of Alexandria, Gregorius Thaumaturgus of Alexandria, Heraclas Theoclas of Alexandria, Dionysius of Alexandria, Dionysius of Alexandria, Didymus the Blind, Arius, Gregorius Nyssa, Gregorius Nazianzus, Basil of Caesarea, Hieronymus of Stridon, Nestorius, Peter Damien, Peter Lombard, AnSelm of CanterBury, Alexander of Hales, Bernard of Clairvaux, Albert Von Köhl, Tommaso D'Aquino, BonaVentura of Albino, Roberto Bellarmino, and Alfonsus Liguori, etc. some of whom are AntiSaints were apostates masqueraded "as" "TheoLogians" and are now in Hell? I strongly recommend you read Richard Joseph Michael Ibranyi's books
johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br61_desecration_of_catholic_places.pdf (The Desecrations of CathOlIc Places)
johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br63_great_apostasy.pdf (The Great Apostasy)
johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br76_hellenization_of_christianity.pdf (The Hellenization of Christianity by the AntiChurch Fathers and the Scholastics)
and listen to his lectures
th-cam.com/video/BNAsez1x-Uc/w-d-xo.html (The Desecration of CathOlIc Places)
th-cam.com/video/_yEDaQjDFnc/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 1: Art Imitates Reality: the Mixing of God and Religion with False "gods" and false "religions": the Feast of Fools)
th-cam.com/video/FiWqdq-2j74/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 2: Zodiac and Other Occultic Practices and Pederasty and Other Sodomism)
th-cam.com/video/4U3bTYqcVKc/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 3: Molestation and Corruption of Youth, Serial Fornication and Bastard Children, and ImMoral Plays, Dances, and Banquets)
th-cam.com/video/ld0x57qHF3Q/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 4: General Corruption)
th-cam.com/video/TXudd_RBe9w/w-d-xo.html (The Great Apostasy: Part 5: Humanism and Humanists in the AntiPapal "Courts")
th-cam.com/video/s04g5QOcakI/w-d-xo.html (The Chaining and UnChaining of Satan)
th-cam.com/video/Vm5H4pLfe2M/w-d-xo.html (The AntiChurch Fathers and the Hellenization of Christianity)
th-cam.com/video/pV4wyJ5g2c8/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 1 of 6: (True) PhiloSophy vs PseudoPhiloSophy)
th-cam.com/video/6v3Vzzcznhc/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 2 of 6: Condemners of PseudoPhiloSophy vs Glorifiers of PseudoPhiloSophy)
th-cam.com/video/UiYV2xPIVmg/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 3 of 6: PseudoScholastics and Other PseudoPhiloSophers Idolize Reason)
th-cam.com/video/1aVmQOmRRIs/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 4 of 6: The Ways PseudoPhiloSophy or MythoLogy Are Glorified)
th-cam.com/video/vscfnTUPy5c/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 5 of 6: Brief History of PseudoScholasticism)
th-cam.com/video/6bmvuv_Mklg/w-d-xo.html (The Hellenization of Christianity by the Scholastics: Part 6 of 6: PseudoTheoLogians Effectively Replaced the Magisterium and Tradition and the Bible)
then watch Ryan Shenouda's video
th-cam.com/video/TYLhAAe0JN0/w-d-xo.html (The Desecration of CathOlIc Places)
then watch "Joshua Truther"'s videos
th-cam.com/video/yx6Pajc909k/w-d-xo.html (Was Jesus a White Man or Brown Skinned Man? Does this reflect your Faith-Truthful or Deceitful?)
th-cam.com/video/bsUlLHNoKLg/w-d-xo.html (Why did God the Son come As A Brown Man? Is worshipping "White "Jesus"" due to UnConscious Bias?)
which prove the worldwide departure from the Ancient OrthoDox CathOlIc Church took place in the 11th century!
#GeoCentra! #GeoStatic! #TerraPlana!
#SedeVacanteMDDIIII!
just because Origen was judged as heretical, it does not mean ALL his works should be thrown away,,, Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.... Even ST. Paul quoted from PAgan sources....And the beginning of Gospel of John uses the world LOGOS , which is PAgan philosophical Word that originates from the SToic Philosophy ...
@@peterbrown6612 their are a myriad of catholic ideas to steer clear from which makes origen look righteous
That's not true while they were written by hand, the Old Testament BIBLE the SEPTUAGINTA is a book of 325B.C. The Greeks had books. Allright they were written on metal plates bound in book form.
I love my Pagan religions just like everyone else in here nothing but good old yaldabaoth worship
Thank you for the presentation.
Did you say Iranaeus said that revelation closed with the book of John?
He certainly doesn't sound like a cessationist in this wiki quote:
"Irenaeus (d.202) was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book Against Heresies, Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual"."Those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years…. The name of our Lord Jesus Christ even now confers benefits [upon men], and cures thoroughly and effectively all who anywhere believe on Him".[19]"
Andrew Yliniemi i thought he said with the death of the apostles. Im reading that book online but haven’t got to that part (against heresies). Theyve got on you tube and librivox. However i did read his book “an example of the apostolic preaching”. There he does not say revelation is gone just infallibility. He calls the apostles understanding “perfect”, i believe was the exact term he used, due to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He says no one is walking any longer in that level of perfect understanding. In the book he actually criticizes people for rejecting prophesy and the gifts of the Holy Spirit (not kidding that is a direct quote). He says all must have the father son and spirit. The true revelation of the Father the word (the son) and the indwelling spirit. That book is a great introduction to Ireneaus and is like 23 hours shorter than against heresies.
Bright Light
Irenaeus’ Against Heresies clearly condemned montanists for thinking gifts of the spirit like prophecy are no more, equating it with blaspheming the Homy Spirit. Whatever part you think implies cessation with Apostles is likely referring to there not being a new covenant or new gospel after the written New Testament.
Catsintexas. Dangerous business this picking and choosing what you like and don't like in terms of Scripture. Luther got rid if the Deuterocanonical text and he also wanted to get rid of Jude, James, half of Hebrews and Revelation. Talk about just taking what you like!!! I guess he never read Deuteronomy 4:2 or Revelation 22:18-19! It's unfortunate that it will undermine your discussions with atheists.
Tell me about it the world of cherry pickers sigh!
Luther didn’t remove any books from the Latin Vulgate, he just didn’t consider them inspired or authoritative. This isn’t really any different than Jerome’s distinction between the Canonicity of the old/New Testaments and of the ecclesiology of the Apocrypha. If you in your ignorance want to denigrate Luther, know that you are at the same time criticizing Saint Jerome and other Early Church Fathers as well.
@@felixcharles9773 Pray tell, by what authority would he pick and choose which Books to keep and which to remove from the Sacred Canon? He was a megalomaniac (yet brilliant) man with obvious mental health issues. Sadly, the issues (OCD at best, manic depression at worst) which he exhibited are often corrected with simple medication these days. Back to my supposed ignorance… Luther relegated the Deuterocanonical text to the “apocrypha” and placed it in a category of “useful yet uninspired” where it remained in Protestant Bibles until the time of the Second Great Awakening where it was discarded altogether. I stand by my original comment that this is dangerous business when you are picking and choosing that Scripture which fits your new narrative.
@@felixcharles9773 Which is what most protestants and non denominationals do.... Attack attack attack
I actually like marcion's views. I agree with him. its a shame that he was cast out. I BELIEVE WHAT Marcion and Bart Ehrman believes about the old testament. Thomas Jefferson also thought that the old testament had a lot of junk in it. Jefferson was still a believer in Christ and new test. Modern Scholarship (even bible christian scholars) have found A LOT OF ERRORS and false history and BS in the old testament. Most of it was for Jews anyway, and not of us Christ believing Gentiles, so what do we care what is in the first 12 books of the bible. It contains violent and merciless junk and does not match up with New Test commands and instructions from Jesus and Paul. This is the truth! You have to wrap your mind around this. It is not a lie. The old test contains very embarrassing violent and cruel crap that Atheist debaters have a "field day" with against us christian believers which is why many young believers lose their faith in colleges and universities. Its the old testament that is a liability for our Faith in Christ and the new testament doctrines and promises.
catsintexas
As John the apostle is quoted by Irenaeus as saying to Marcion, you are a son of satan until you repent of your heresy.
Many things in the Old Testament can be understood by means of allegory. Origen was the champion of understanding and interpreting allegorical events.