10 Tips to MAXIMIZE the Life of the ONAN Engine in Your Garden Tractor - Long Live the Opposed Twin!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2022
- This video is geared toward owners of vintage garden tractors with horizontal OPPOSED-TWIN air-cooled engines - particularly the ONAN gasoline engines built by McGraw-Edison (and later Cummins/Linamar) that so many claim are "hard to get parts for" and "expensive to rebuild" today. With a few extra preventive maintenance steps, it is possible to push your Onan (or other opposed-twin) engine to 3000 or more hours before needing a rebuild - this is a much longer service life than the 1000-1500 hour life that a lot of neglected engines have seen over the years, often leading people to lose faith in their reliability. If you own a classic garden tractor with one of these engines - particularly a John Deere 316/317/318/420, Super Cub Cadet 982-2072, large-frame Bolens, Sears Suburban, Wheel Horse D-series or 400/500 series, big-wheel Case/Ingersoll, or Steiner, this video is for you. Many of the topics discussed can also be applied to Kohler and Briggs & Stratton opposed twin engines of similar design from the same time period.
Twin-cylinder Onan engines were one of the most popular choice of powerplants for all different types of small power equipment - from lawn & garden tractors, to generators, welders, skid steers, and military equipment, from the 1930's to the official end of their production in 2003. Opposed-twin engines were known for their low-end torque output, their ability to withstand thousands of hours of run time between rebuilds (some out there still running with 4000-5000+ hours on them), and their overall stout construction allowing them to be rebuilt several times over. The most popular models of Onan engines used in garden tractors that collectors have come to know and love include the CCK series, N52, BF/BG, B43-B48, P216-P224, and the Canadian-built Linamar LX7/LX9 series that rounded out production just after the turn of the century. These engines powered some of the most iconic (and now collectable) garden tractors ever produced for the consumer market, many of which are still being used today and working as hard as they did 30+ years ago - despite being somewhat antiquated at this point.
Unfortunately, many of these engines lived a hard service life (especially in garden tractor applications), often not given proper care and maintenance that they required to reach their 3000+ hour potential. These engines don't mind a little preventive maintenance throughout the season - sometimes this means more than just a yearly oil change. The accumulation of debris due to restricted airflow and neglected oil leaks, use of improper oil (or infrequent oil changes), and lack of overall TLC resulted in a drastically shortened service life of many of these engines, which when neglected, can become very temperamental. Combined with the fact that they have been out of production for 20 years, the Onan engines have developed a negative reputation and many owners have shied away from using them in more recent years - often choosing to replace them with a lightweight v-twin engine such as a Kohler Command, Honda GX or a Briggs & Stratton Vanguard. This video will explain 10 (actually 11) important steps that should be taken to provide proper care for an Onan engine and maximize its service life - no Command, Vanguard, or Honda repower necessary. Keep these old opposed twin engines running - at the end of the day, you can't beat their torque curve and sound. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Please note that these are all items that should be done IN ADDITION TO regular maintenance (oil changes, air/fuel filters, spark plugs, points, etc.) - a little preventive maintenance goes a long way!
10:16 - Air cooling & ventilation
16:20 - Run good oil and change it often!
19:09 - Replace the oil filter shroud gasket
21:01 - Replace the firewall foam insulation (JD 300/400 series only)
26:20 - Run WIDE OPEN THROTTLE when engine is under load
30:48 - Decarbon cylinder heads, valves, and intake/exhaust ports every 500 hours
34:38 - Hardened/oversized valve seats (if originals are loose) (P series only)
35:20 - Steel flyball spacer upgrade (1986 and newer B/P series and Linamar engines only)
39:48 - B series starter & oil pan upgrade (P series and Linamar engines only)
43:17 - Replace ALL oil seals while engine is out
46:10 - Recommended but not required: Split & reseal intake manifold (to prevent a surging condition)
Have you ever looked into the Simplicity sunstar’s cooling system? It’s completely sealed off from everywhere except vents in the top of hood and is ducted through the trans cooler into the engine.
@@Claytonsgardentractors A friend of mine collects the Sunstar series tractors (maybe he'll comment here if he sees this) and I find their air intake design puzzling - I guess the Magnum or the Command engine sits high up in the frame enough that the flywheel blower can pull air in from up above rather than below? I know the modern Cub Cadets and Simplicities with horizontal shaft engines pull their air from the hood, but I have a feeling the hood vents were added to reduce the possibility of dust and debris coming in from below - which is a flaw with the design of the Deere 300/400 series and Cub Cadet 82 series. Whether the hood vents actually help take in more air than the older design, I have no way to confirm.
@@MichaelTJD60 the engine is sealed off from below and the sides, there is a plastic duct piece that goes over the battery to direct air from the vents down to the engine, most of the time it’s been removed and defeats the system like the oil filter gasket on onans, I’m not sure if that explanation helped or not but here is a promo video that discuss the cooling system in it, th-cam.com/video/gs1mnNm1-YE/w-d-xo.html
This video is exactly what I need for my grandpas John Deere. I cut the lawn now and would like to keep it on top condition please more videos for beginners.
@@Claytonsgardentractors that explains why it was puzzling to me, the duct piece was gone so it didn't appear that there was any way for the engine to pull air from up top.
On the subject of parts sourcing for discontinued engines, it’s worth mentioning that OEM Tecumseh parts are still available for purchase with the exception of factory short blocks. Certified Parts Corp. has been producing parts at their facility in Wisconsin under the Tecumseh Power brand since 2009
Great to know. I don't deal much with Tecumseh but I know there are plenty of guys out there still running them in their older machines - especially the Sears tractors and the JD 112's.
Very VERY well done video! Some really good information here about the opposed twins. Much better built engines than today’s v twins!
Thank you! And yes, totally agreed.
I did not know John Lang passed away.
I purchased several firewalls and things from him years ago. He had some pretty cool Black and custom JOHN DEERES. May he RIP.
Excellent. I learned a lot. Thanks for suggesting this video.
Th8s is by far one of the top 3 reviews I've seen in a long time
Thank you!
The Onan twin is found in many older welding machines, they were indestructible and ran on many jobs 24/7 with stops only to refuel and a oil check, still see them running today, the older more experienced welders preferred them over the newer off shore engined machines, less down time than the Chineseium engined machines, the Onan and Kohler powered welding machines do automatically throttle down when not under the weld generator load, but still good information in this vid, Thanks.
Excellent video. Very fluid speaking making it easy to watch from start to finish. Well done.
Thanks Don!
Thank you for sharing your sage wisdom on the Onan engines! Have really enjoyed learning from your channel!
Glad to hear! Thanks for the comment and for tuning in!
Great video Michael. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for watching and for the nice comments!
One thing to keep in mind on the Case/Ingersoll tractors in specific is to check the crankshaft for up and down play on the flywheel end. They have a tendency to eat crank bearing on the flywheel end due to the strain placed on it by the belt tension from the PTO clutch. I've seen it a couple times
Thanks for the info, I haven't been around enough of the Case tractors to know that that is an issue with them, but it certainly makes sense. Good input!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching.
Very good info Mike! Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
@@MichaelTJD60 you going to end up making one for the single cylinder engines? Had thought of doing one before but if you already are or have than I wont.
Love it as I also have a JD400... ENJOYING YOUR VIDEO AS I NEED TO REPLACE EXHAUST GASKETS AND THE MOWER WORKS GREAT 54 INCH DECK. WIFE LOVES THIS MOWER. THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO
Love your video, as I have a JD 400 USING IT FOR PAST 10 YEARS, DAD HAD IT BEFORE ME.
Thanks for the video Mike. Now i know what i need to do and watch for with my new onan.
Yours should be good to go for another 35 years, but this info is still good to keep in mind.
GREAT VIDEO... LOVE YOUR EXPLAINATIONS: FIREWALL, OIL/AIR FILTER,SCREENS ESPECIALLY UNDERNEATH... VERY GOOD/EXCELLENT VIDEO. THANK YOU, PAUL
Thanks for watching and commenting, glad you found the video useful!
I don’t own a tractor but as an old school gear head I find this interesting, thanks for the video 👍😁
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed!
Amazing job on the video, the elaborateness of it, as well as the thumbnail!
Thanks!
I would like to thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom on these engines. I pulled the dirt caked oily B43G out of my 318 last night to refresh it but wasn't sure where to start. The engine mount base plate looks like its made out of sludge rather than steel :) This video will help tremendously on what to look for and parts I will need to get it sealed up and running right after I clean the engine and chassis off.
Glad you found the video useful Tyler. Sounds like your B43G would definitely appreciate a good thorough cleaning and going over. All it takes is one tiny leaking seal or gasket to cover the whole engine bay in grease and oil. How many hours are on your engine?
@@MichaelTJD60 Yessir. It's showing 1492 but I didn't realize the hour meter wasn't working when I bought it. I doubt I've even put 10 hours on it yet but I need to get that fixed. So far aside from those oil leaks it seems healthy all things considered. No oil smoke on start up. PO owned it since 1993 and took decent care of it. While I'm thinking about it- I want to go through the starter and put some quality parts in it. I have the 1986 solenoid style. I can't remember where you said in another video you got a rebuild kit from for that?
@@tylerkrieger912 The kit is just new brushes and springs. You can buy them on eBay for about $20. Cleaning the internals is the most labor intensive part of the whole rebuild - installing new brushes can be done in just a few minutes but if the commutator has carbon buildup then the new brushes aren't going to help anything.
@@MichaelTJD60 Copy that. I will do that. I am really enjoying wrenching on something I'm not in a time crunch to finish for a change. Thanks for the help!
Good informative video. Onan engines were high torque and really smooth engines that performed really well. Their main drawbacks were they required a decent amount of maintenance and had a few issues including the two piece intakes leaking, finicky carbs, the aluminum starter mount bosses cracking, and i believe valve and governor issues. And the motor must come out to repace the starter.
Very nice. Thank you.
You appreciate it? Man, I'm sure WE ALL appreciate it more. Such knowledge and expertise!
Thank you! Just trying to share my knowledge so we can preserve these great engines for many more years.
I'm in the middle of NC. I'm thinking you're SE Pennsylvania? I wish I could have you rework my Onan P220G from my Toro 520-H. Quite sentimental about this mower. Has a blown rear head gasket but according to your great video, there are so many other things that could be re-vamped/improved. The distance is a problem. Is there any way around that? You may be too busy anyway. Thanks
Good on you. Like the Onan engines. Have numerous. Onans plus Wisconsin's and Kohlers...made in USA when our quality was at it's zenith for longevity and reliability.
Couldn't agree more! The days of a true American-designed and American-made small engine are over.
So nice that you share all your knowledge with us Mike! I really appreciate the time you set aside for us . Pretty sure my 318 has seen lots of neglect over the years sad to say. I’m sure I’m gonna have to tear into it some day. I look forward to using your videos for reference and nice you gave mrbeef a (mmrbeef) a mention. That guy is amazing too with theses engines!
On a side note I make my wife watch (listen) to all these videos I watch and she likes your voice the best. She also spontaneously asked me “what doesn’t this guy know?” My reply… not much. She’s impressed that you can just extemporaneously talk about theses engines, which is very impressive. I (we) always look forward to you next video. We call you “plow day guy). 😀
Thank you for the kind words Lou! I hope my videos prove to be useful when it comes time to work on your 318. Mrbeef is one of my favorite TH-cam channels and a wealth of knowledge on these Deere tractors - he and I knew each other from MyTractorForum before either of us really got started on TH-cam (he bought his very first JD a couple months before I bought mine in 2012). Tell your wife thanks also lol...I don't claim to know everything about these tractors, but I try to share what I do know.
I like your tips on the engine. I managed the development of the P series engine and worked with Deere on the application of it in the 318 and 420 tractors. We even did a kit to retrofit the P series engine into a 317. The rotating chaff screen was removed to give about a 10% increase in airflow. The Deere screens did a good job of keeping grass out of the engine so they took it out. It is definitely needed on tractors without the screens. Also, if you are rebuilding a B series engine I would recommend using the P series valves and guides. The improved materials and reduced weights of those parts really did increase recommended valve adjustment intervals from 250 hrs to 1000 hrs. I agree with running the engine at high rpm to improve cooling. Our standard endurance test was 1000 hrs at 3600rpm WOT. Only failures I recall were some cracks in the sheet metal shrouds due to vibration.
Thanks for your insight, Jim! Great to hear from a former Onan employee and very neat that you oversaw the P series engines as they came into production. If it's not already obvious from the video, I'm a big fan of the P series engines and have several. You mentioned the valves and guides being lighter in the P series to extend service intervals - was this the basis for the lighter steel valve seats in the P series as well? Also, what was the reasoning for switching the starter mounts from the oil pan (B series) to under the left-hand side of the block (P-series)?
I have a JD 420 P series that the starter motor won't engage with the fly wheel. You just gave me a great tip. Thanks very much! I just subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! I'm betting the starter mounts on your engine are cracked - the B series starter and oil pan swap is well worth the time and effort.
Hey Michael it’s like you’re doing well love the tips great video👍
Thanks Dean!
@@MichaelTJD60 no problem my friend 👍
Love my P220 series engine. Had one that went to 5k hours with a couple refresh sessions before I had to replace it with another one I had in storage.
I really appreciate videos like this. The common attitude with owners of these older machines these days seems to be repowering is the way to go and the older engines ESPECIALLY the Onans aren't worth fixing/rebuilding. And thats so odd to me considering that people will get 1500+ hours and 30+ years of service out of these engines before needing any major overhaul, yet thats not worth fixing?? Especially because as you pointed out parts are still available contrary to popular belief, and IMO repowering seems more complicated than rebuilding the original engine that's designed and built to work with that particular machine.
I agree with you 100% - why not just reuse the engine that was originally designed to fit the machine (back in a time period when everything was actually built to last and not built to fit a low budget)? Internet rumors start circulating about parts availability and rebuild costs and it doesn't take long for people to develop a bad taste for these engines over nothing. Of course the opposed twin engine design might be antiquated, but it WORKED time and time again....for over half a century, I might add. Seems like I have heard far more complaints of blown-up V-twin engines over the years compared to opposed twins.
Nice work sir. I am re-powering a 1989 420 with a vanguard 23 due to time constraints. I have the original Onan and the last engine I re-powered it with, a Linamar lx790, which now has a loose exhaust valve seat. I did manage to get 19 years out of the Linamar and I usually kept the fins under the shrouds clean, the original Onan failed at 600 due to a thrown rod, I bought the machine used, not running and suspect the previous owner didn't maintain the Onan properly. I entertained replacing the seats, all 4 and rebuilding the 790, however I thought the alum would get pretty thin between the ex and intake valve with an oversized seat. That seat rattled around in there for a while before I finally tore it down so the seat bore is quite a bit oversized.
What I am now thinking, for an engine on the shelf, is using the Onan block, replacing the cross oil tube inside that got smashed up by the rod and having all the seats replaced and rebuilding it with what parts I can use out of the Linamar, if everything measures out correctly and is useable. What do you think?
Nice video and Thank You for the tips!
I think you have a good plan using the Onan block with the Linamar parts, provided the Linamar's internals were not worn beyond spec. The Linamar is the exact same engine so the parts should all be interchangeable (except for possibly the crankcase breather depending on which letter spec the original engine is). I'm not sure if a good machine shop could save the Linamar block with the worn valve seats but that might also be something to look into - they aren't making any more of these blocks.
The orange is like my magnum 18 is a very nice motor
Great video, I have two machines with Onan's, a Sears SS18 with a B48M (Canadian sold model) and a Cub 982 with a B28G. Need to Fit a surging problem on the B48M but the Onan in the 982 runs great.
Hopefully a split and reseal of the intake manifold will take care of it. Those older B series like the B48M are good tough engines.
@@MichaelTJD60 Unfortunately split and reseal only helped some. The sears has the marvin schebler DD13 that from what I've been told throwing amazon parts at doesn't fix right. I got the brass float and an Onan carb kit from an Ingersoll dealer so hopefully that does something if not I have both gasket kits for it and I'll just redo the motor from top to bottom.
@@FullMetalFab Those Marvel-Schebler carburetors are a bit of a dinosaur by today's standards, but it's neat that yours is still present, as a lot of them were replaced. I'm not a fan of Onan's use of downdraft carbs...I wish they used a traditional side-draft carb like the Kohler opposed twins.
@@MichaelTJD60 if I wasn't so persistent with keeping it original I'd swap it for the walbro like what is on the B48G in my Cub 982 but it ran nice ones and it should again. I agree the carb design being a little dated and a side draft would work much better and be a lot easier to set.
Great video mike. Additions to your ideas behind running at full throttle: they were designed to be used sitting still in welders and generators. Full throttle and spinning the blower as fast as possible is the best way to keep an air cooled motor cool, especially if it’s sitting still. Same reason you don’t let a Harley idle long if you’re sitting still.
I’ll definitely be referencing this along with your other advice as I start working on my 318 this summer.
Great point! Now granted the engines in welders/generators also weren't being put under as heavy of a load compared to engines in tractors, but the air cooling principle still holds true regardless. I've got several videos from some of the Onan-powered tractors I've worked on over the years - hopefully they are useful for you.
Sold my 318 a couple years back for 1000 more than I paid for it. Had it 20 years. Rebuilt it once, changed flywheel, put in the B series oil pan and starter, remote solenoid which I agree was a better set up. Old oil pan and starter was garbage, had that out a few times trying to make that starter work with that funky mount. Re welded it, welded broken foot too. It ran great and looked like new when I sold it and It was a good tractor, but I got a 445 that I rebuilt and its a much nicer tractor, cuts better.
I strongly believe onan made the best lawn and garden tractor engines. I have 2 wheel horse 212-5s with onan vertical shaft single cylinder engines and they are the most reliable amazing engines and I also have a 316 with the b43e and I am going to tear into the engine soon to get it working good!
I agree! They are hard to beat. Don't see many of the WH 212's around, let alone the single cylinder Onan engines.
Nice H model John Deere in the background!
It was a nice tractor, a restoration project that was never finished. Unfortunately I had to sell it.
Another thing that sucks about repowers? They recommend leaving the engine tins off! Hell no! I think they are worth less if the original Onan is gone and I won't buy them. I own 4 318s, a 1985, 1986, 1988, 1991 all original Onans, except one has a newer Linamar but is an Onan P218G. Just built in Canada. Love these old tractors. Rebuilt the '91 so far and the '85 is next with a B43G.
Great point! Most of those repower kits are made to be shoehorned into the engine compartment of a 318 (for instance), usually don't fit correctly without drilling new holes, and usually don't fit without leaving the side covers off or cutting a hole in the side cover to fit around them. More trouble than they are worth. It sounds like you have a great fleet of 318's. I didn't mention it in the video, but my inspiration comes from my uncle's fleet of 318's ('85, '86 he bought new and now has a Linamar, '88 and '89) which are all used and abused on the farm and have proven themselves reliable over and over again.
@MichaelTJD60 I like them un-molested too all of mine but 1 only had a dealer stickers no cup holder drilled into the fenders, all the tins are there and belly screens on. My '88 had been repainted and don't even have a dealer sticker on it. I will keep these going until my time is up and I feel the 318s will still be running strong. Can't say that with today's crap we get.
Don't get me wrong... I really like my 3 original Onan engines, the B43 in the '86 318. the P218 in the '88 318, & the P220 in the '88 420, but there is certainly something awfully COOL about the Honda & the Briggs Vanguard V-Twin Repowers also...! (I guess I just appreciate the ingenuity and engineering in the repower designs...)
The newer v-twins are definitely more refined and efficient but in my opinion you just can't beat the sound, ruggedness, and torque of an Onan...once you get past the intake leaks and the pungent exhaust smell. Lol.
@@MichaelTJD60 I agree, and I would rather have originality too, that's why all 3 of mine still retain their Onan roots... even if they all are between 1,000 & 1,500 hours....
Yeah I’ve got 4 of the old Deere’s with the Peerless 2300s & the smaller units they make today just aren’t the same. I’m a manual transmission guy… mostly cuz that’s all I can find down south that isn’t overpriced cuz all the hydros are either sitting in a collectors garage, sitting in a barn, or were junked many years ago sadly. Then when they’re in bad shape the seller will ask an obscene amount of money cuz they’re tough even tho it’ll cost nearly $500-1000 to completely rebuild a tractor just with parts.
Rebuilding your motor is another story. Basically most of these engines by now in a tractor need a rebuild.
I had a hydro I got for free, but all the hydrostat hoses were trashed. Yanked the motor, & traded the rest for 2 other tractors.
If you can find the small Yanmar Diesel engines like a L70-L100 they swap nicely in the 200 series tractors.
I'd rather just rebuild the original Kohler considering the long service life they are known for...plus the fact that the 200 series frames were designed specifically around those engines. The Kohler K series were the most common small engine ever produced...at least until 1995.
Love my Bolens QT-16 with the Onan but my Deere 116 i repowered with an 18 hp B&S opposed twin that has the spin on oil filter and an oil cooler. It will as will the Onan outlive me...
I wish the Onans in the 316/318/420 tractors had engine oil coolers. Probably would have saved a lot of headaches.
One Of the most important Thing ;;; Engine RPM, The Engine Needs To Run at The Reccomended RPM.. Because Of Viberation ,, I have taken Engines Ran them at Differant Rpms The Internal Viberations Would Distruct The Engine;;
I love opposed twins but they have one major flaw: efficiency (or lack of)- compared to a v twin they burn considerably more fuel for the same horsepower, they do have more torque however. I’m probably going to spend the most time this summer using my 1641 cub because I’m able to mow 5 or 6 times on a tank of gas while my others with opposed twins need filled almost every time I use them.
Definitely a major setback of the opposed twin engines - I've never been a fan of the fuel consumption compared to the newer engines. But a common remedy is to upgrade to a low-pressure electric fuel pump which does seem to help a little bit. Some guys have also tried leaner valve adjustments and carb jetting.
Hi Mike. Very informative video. What's your thoughts on replacing the intake valve seals after removing the valves for clean up on a p220? Have you done it without replacing the seals? I know the Onan manual says to replace them any time you remove the valve. I know the b series doesn't have them. Just wondering your thoughts on it. Thanks. Keep tractoring.
The only sure-fire way to know if your valve guides and seals are in good shape is to check the valve stems with a micrometer to see if they are within wear spec. Like you mentioned, it's a good rule of thumb to replace those valve seals whenever the valves come out, and in the case of the P series engines known for valve train problems, I wouldn't hesitate to replace the seals if you are doing any kind of valve train work. It's a good preventive step to take while you're that far into it.
Wow, very well explain video. Thank you very much for the info. I have a question when you mean 1/4”machine bolts and nuts for the intake your meaning quarter inch long? because you’re only going to drill out rivets with an 1/8 drill bit correct?
You're welcome, glad you found the video useful. Yes, I should have been more clear - the machine screws would need to be 1/4" long.
Thanks a ton for this video, it is an extremely valuable resource. Would I have bought my 1988 316 if I saw your video first? Probably, I needed one pretty quickly and it was the only 300 series in my budget. Is it a bit of a mess that seems to have been neglected? Also yes. It has no belly screen, had no air filter foam ring (bought new air filter that included this), no oil filter shroud gasket, cooling fins very cruddy, and was even missing the large air intake tube that I have since ordered from eBay. I'll get that other stuff including the firewall heat shield as soon as I am able, as well as doing all the other overdue maintenance. I'm hoping I can still get it to top running shape. Thanks again.
Glad you found the video useful - your 316 and its engine will certainly thank you for getting it back into shape. These tractors (and engines) are very tough and are usually forgiving as long as they're kept in the right hands and given a little extra care - especially with them having some age to them now.
I just got a 316. I gotta do some work on the tractor and right now ive run it without left panel so i can keep on eye on it looking for the oil leaks since it has a film covering it. Granted i was only usy the trl to haul brush out so load it start it drive out and back and off again. My tractor has been repowered by a b48
Probably the common oil filter plate gasket seal or a front/rear main crank seal leaking. Nothing unusual.
Thanks for the vid. I learned a lot.
I own 2 complete 982 cubs and one 982 project. I've fallen in love with the onan engine. I'm going to start collecting equipment with the onan engine on them. I'm gonna start rebuilding them. Do you recommend any particular rebuild kits?
Question: what is your opinion on synthetic oil in these old Onan engines?
There aren't really any complete rebuild "kits" on the market at this time since OnanParts discontinued selling them, but I know iSaveTractors has some kits in the works and there is talk of another aftermarket supplier making new kits in the future. For right now, I would buy the valve grind/decarbon kit and bottom end gasket kits through either Boomer or OnanParts.com, and from there add in anything else you might need.
As far as synthetic oil goes, I have no problem with it, AS LONG AS it is used from the time the engine is rebuilt and broken in (when everything internal is new - seals, gaskets, rings, etc). You will hear people complain that synthetic oil causes leaks, but that's exactly what happens when you switch from a conventional oil you've been running for years that has caused internal sludge buildup. As soon as you switch to a synthetic oil with better detergent properties, the detergent will clean away all the sludge buildup and allow seals to start leaking again.
The bottom line is that the lubricating and long-term wear properties of synthetic oil are far superior to conventionals - it's been proven time and time again. I run conventional oil in my Onan's because they are original and have not been rebuilt with new rings - as soon as they get rebuilt someday, I will be switching to synthetic.
@@MichaelTJD60 Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
Nice video I’ve found that you can buy most of your onan parts through John Deere at least for my 318 my engine is a 92 so how does the fly ball spacer in my engine does that still fail like the Ostia or whatever ? I just got a new oil filter gasket it plays one but kept falling off and yes it is an important part for the 5 bucks it is it’s worth it
Deere is a good source for a lot of Onan parts (due to the popularity of the 318), but their markup on pricing is ridiculous. I very rarely go through them for Onan parts anymore unless it's an emergency. Your '92 will have the extended tab plastic flyball spacer - it should be fine.
my john deere has a kawasaki engine air cooled v twin over head valve 18 horse power engine model fh531v i have mentioned this tractor a couple of times 2002 john deere GX325. 99% of the time i check the oil level and change it at least 1 or 2 times in a season depending on level of use check air filters spark plugs and of course i replace the oil filter too.
i have only used it for 1 full season so i will see how often i need to change the engine oil and filter i try to get as much use out of it as i can but i don't want it to get too dirty.
@@shaunkanary997 Change oil every 50 hours and adjust the valve lash every 200 hours and it will run forever. As far as the "late model" power equipment goes, Kawasaki engines are probably the best on the market anymore.
@@MichaelTJD60 Valve lash? so far i have not had to do that.
@@shaunkanary997 The manual for that machine probably says to bring it to your John Deere dealer when it is due for a valve lash adjustment. From what I've seen and heard, the only significant failures that have been going on with the late-model Kawasaki engines are tossed valve seats, worn guides or push rods due to people not keeping the valves adjusted regularly.
Great video and extremely informative. I have a JD 316 with the B43e non oil filter engine. Im trying to find a kit to completely reseal the engine, it just pukes oil everywhere. Its gotten to the point where I made a catch can and re routed the ccv line to that instead of the Intake. I would love to find a link to a re seal kit, I just can't find one. Any help from anyone would be appreciated! I'd love to keep this rig alive, its built like a rock
Check out the OnanParts.com valve grind kit and bottom end gasket kits. They will come with everything you need.
have you ever seen a fuel injection kit for these old onans? I think that would be awesome.
I have not, but it would be a great way to cut down on their fuel consumption. I wonder what it would take to design an EFI system for these.
Great video, I just picked up a Concrete saw with a Linamar LX990 / 11257H show it is a 980cc Not finding to much about them. Made in Canada. Do you know any places I can get some info for it. If it runs I might toss it at an old 316 a for laying around with no engine lol
LX990 is the same engine as an Onan P224G - try searching for P224 parts and you might have better luck. That won't fit in a 316 unless you install the shorter air cleaner box and the shallow oil pickup and oil pan from a P218G or similar.
I am going to pick up a 24p today that I am putting in my 62 Simplicity Landlord. It is a much needed replacement the Briggs 8hp just won't ever be enough for me. 33 years ago I was taught how to cut my Pepe's lawn on this very garden Tractor the 8hp will pull anything in 1st gear but if the grass is tall you have to mow in 1st. I think I am going to add a nice big oil cooler and possibly a small fan just for the cooler. I will use a couple of quality check valves so the oil pump will be able to handle the cooler. If anyone can think of any possible ways this might hurt this engine please school me. If it just ends up beginning a waste of time and money we'll I will share that.
It sounds like an excellent idea and a great way to prolong the life of the engine. I would be eager to see what kind of wear patterns the engine sees in the long run from the oil being circulated through a cooler and it might also be a good idea to do an oil analysis to see how the oil breaks down over time.
Hey Mike, very nice video. Just Got out the trusty old gt2544. (Already mowed twice, lol). Its running like a champ! Couple of questions, how long does it take for a machine to be “old”? Also what is the best way to keep the Command series kohlers running for years?
Thanks Aidan. "Old" is subjective...I even use that term to refer to the new Kubotas I sell at work. Most of the same principles that I discussed in this video apply to the Commands, but especially running wide open and using good oil. Running the Command in my grandfather's GT2550 at half throttle for so many years definitely took its toll.
@@MichaelTJD60 Good to know Mike. I run at full throttle when ever im doing work with the machine. If not half to 3/4 is all i need to get back to the barn. Also i do use good oil. So i guess is there any other tips on some ways for them to run for a while? Other than not to abuse them.
@@JoshAllen17Goated I've heard the Commands are especially picky about having a clean air filter - obviously any air cooled engine needs a clean air filter but the Commands are not very forgiving if their intake airflow is restricted by a dirty filter. So that's definitely one item to keep in mind - in hind sight we should have probably been cleaning the filter on my grandfather's GT2550 once a week with all the use we were giving it.
@@MichaelTJD60 good to know thanks!
I feel reasons for changing are the ohnan was improperly matured, people without knowledge feel age isn't worth keeping or bought a tractor already repowered. Myself with parts available yet just rebuild it even with valve issues they had but again with properly kept up to date olds better but that's my thoughts.
Absolutely agree. Most people think they are just taking the easy way out by installing a repower kit.
And RUN WIDE OPEN THROTTLE!
Yes, I can't stress this enough!
On the John Deere’s and cub cadets I always take the side panels off the tractor in the summer heat so the engine can pull more air in maybe that’s wrong but the engines stay cooler I think and most of them the hood gets so hot you can’t even touch it that’s what I do in the summer and my 318 also doesn’t have the mesh screen covering the flywheel on the onan and I’m not feeling like pulling the motor right now lol maybe I’ll pull it out one of these coming years and give it a check up adjusting valves cleaning the sump and replacing the sump gasket because it is a little damp around it
Clean the cooling fins out and then put those side panels back on! Those cylinder heads won't be getting enough airflow with the side panels off...they are there for a reason.
@@MichaelTJD60 in referring to the metal John Deere side covers that go around the engine on the tractor not the engine tin that’s black and covers the cylinder head
@@hunter7476 I'm referring to the tractor side panels as well...they need to be in place, otherwise some of that intake air will be directed past the engine and out the sides of the tractor, rather than over the cylinder heads and out the front.
@@MichaelTJD60 oh ok I though yo I were referring the tins bolted to the engine block
Reason i ask is just about 2 weeks ago we had a dramatic drop in temps like 30 40 degress in a matter of a few hours srated the tractor up engine was over revving a bit no throttle control at all would not idle. i was hoping that you could give me some ideas to prevent this from happaning i did take some turbine oil and dribbled some on all of the connecting links on the carb and on the govenor.
When it warmed to about 40 degrees it was fine.
The picture of the plastic gears and camshaft gear in the GX620/GX670 was absolutely shocking. I would have never thought Honda of all companies would lower themselves to put plastic parts in their COMMERCIAL engines. Knowing this, I would much rather use a Briggs Vanguard v-twin since at least they both still use a cast iron camshaft. I think the newer kohler v-twins have a pressed steel camshaft where they press the lobes and the gear on a steel spindle like how Briggs has done for their Intek single and v-twin residential engines. And we know how piss poor those camshafts are snapping compression releases like it’s their job. But a plastic camshaft gear on a Honda. Just wow. Honda single cylinder GX engines still use cast iron camshafts so why don’t the V-twin GX engine?! I think even the Predator 670 uses a proper cast camshaft and it is a literal clone of the Honda V-twin.
My thoughts exactly. Ever since seeing the internals of that Honda GX, I have put more faith in the Briggs Vanguard engines than most of the other repower engine options. Still not a huge fan of the V-twins though, regardless. Briggs has always found ways to cut corners on everything from the smallest I/C or Intek single to the largest Vanguard series v-twin, but the average buyers don't seem to care - they'd rather just run them until they blow and replace them with a whole new engine.
I just bought a wheel horse 520h with a 1993 p220g onan the engine is getting good fuel it has good compression it’s only 967 hours but has no spark I checked for spark checked the plugs what’s a good route to go to look diagnose and test thanks mike
See if you are getting power to the coil from the ignition module - this should be done with a fully charged battery, as the P series engine with electronic ignition will produce weak or no spark when the battery is dead or too low. Considering it's a P series, there's a possibility the ignition module could be bad which will require pulling the engine and removing the flywheel.
@@MichaelTJD60 thanks I’ll check this later I’ll charge the battery as well
I get why running at WOT while working but when I get done mowing I put the mower away. Should I still idle down for a minute or two to let the engine and everything “cool” before I put it away?
Yes, you'll want to idle it long enough to cool things down, but not too long that it will start to overheat. A couple minutes should be fine.
I would avoid fram filters and Mobil 1 oil or cheap motor oil sadly the factory Kohler and some John Deere filters are possibly Made by Fram. I would run Baldwin Wix or Motorcraft oil filters. When it coms to spark plugs I like NGK and Autolite some Champion Plugs or factory Briggs and Stratton plugs even AC Delco will work. I had a single cylinder command make a ticking noise Because it had a Fram filter adding fresh oil and a new OEM oil filter it went away like no tomorrow. As far as tune ups I use sea foam its great stuff.
I used to use Seafoam but it has gotten too expensive. At the end of the day there's no substitute for running clean oil and good filters, changing them often, and decarboning the heads.
@@MichaelTJD60 That is actually the truth you cant substitute clean oil I always change my oil at least 100 hours. Sea foam is expensive
I wonder if an Onan CCK engine would be a good repower solution for the JD 318 ? There are so many CCKs out there.
CCK would be too large to fit with the hood and side panels in place, but I seem to recall seeing one with a CCK in it before. Would be good just to power the tractor if you don't have a use for the PTO.
i do top off the oil A LITTLE BIT not too full if you run the engine hard for a while i give it some more me it is better to have a little extra than not enough have to drain some out fine with me
What’s the best way to look up onan engine parts and diagrams somone sent me a parts manual for a p218 and I typed in Cummins the parts I needed and wanted to see if available the part number never showed up so did the part numbers supersede and is there an updated parts page
The Deere parts lookup is probably your best bet. Deere uses an "HE" prefix before all of the Onan part numbers and I believe Cummins may use an "ME" prefix, hence why the Cummins parts lookup did not recognize your search. Either way, the Deere parts diagrams will probably quickest and easiest to navigate.
I'm just curious but are the parts interchangeable from a Onan p218 and a Linamar lx770?
Yes, the Linamar LX770 is the same engine as a P218G with spec D or later (steel crankcase breather). There are other minor differences like the carburetor and linkage, air cleaner cover, and some have extra drain plugs in the oil pan.
I just got 2 of these for free from my local case dealer nobody wanted them they just put new engines in them
When the cooling fins are regularly cleaned these motors don't have exhaust valve problems
Correct, but unfortunately they often don't receive proper cleaning and spend their lives accumulating debris.
Have you ever added a temperature gauge to one of these? I'd love to add one to my engine, they could be overheating and we'd never know
I personally have not, as I don't think it would really be necessary. From my experience, easiest way to tell if they are overheating is to feel the hood or side panels of the tractor with the back of your hand, and see if they are hot to the touch. If you can't hold your hand against them for more than a couple seconds, your engine is probably running too hot. When it's within the proper temperature range, the hood or side panels will be warm but not hot. On a summer day, you can feel the engine heat radiating back toward you when it's running too hot - they were designed to push the hot air out the front and away from the tractor (in a JD chassis, anyway), so you shouldn't be feeling any heat coming back at you.
How much do you know about the Kawasaki V twin FH531V engine used in the 2002 John Deere tractor GX325?
I believe they were carried on into the early X300 and X500 series. Many of those Kawasaki air-cooled V-twins from the early 2000's were just about bulletproof.
Mike
I want to purchase a 318
what year do you recommend ?
Personally, I am a fan of the '87 model year tractors. They were first to use the P series engines (which had the additional screen over the flywheel - it was discontinued the following year), had extra reinforcements welded at the front of the frame near the front axle, had the smoothest version of the hydro control linkage (later models had two shock absorbers and were very jerky), still had painted sheet metal rather than powdercoat, and did not yet receive the updated wiring harness with the brake pedal safety switch.
Mine has the original screen on the flywheel I'll have to put all new gas line on and new plug wires to
Mine is a sears onan 917.257080 n52e- something the other numbers are to smudged up for me to see them
And im looking for a new carburetor and fuel pump i can get by with a different pump
Does yours have the fuel pump attached to the shroud or is it part of the carb itself? I have a few of the standalone fuel pumps in my used parts stock.
My engine does not seem to get dirty fins only the air filters and the fan or flywheel screen.
All air cooled engines get dirty. You'd be surprised if you pull the blower housing off.
How do I know if there is anything worn excessive is there anything I should listen for distinct sounds ?
Easiest and most noticeable would be a ticking noise from the valve train, hard starting or random popping out the exhaust (assuming carb is adjusted correctly). Low-end knocking could be excessive crankshaft end play, worn rods, or both. In the case of my 2072, the cam bearings failed and pushed the freeze plug out of the block, but the engine still ran perfectly - I don't know what kind of damage would have been done if I had continued running it.
@@MichaelTJD60 mine has the slightest valve noise like the slightest I’ll probably adjust then sometime here
@@hunter7476 It's probably overdue for a valve adjustment.
where is a good and trust part store that I can purchase some onan parts? Thank you.
Boomer's Onan Parts and OnanParts.com are your two best sources.
@@MichaelTJD60 Thank you.
What year was the p series engines manufactured
1986 through about 1995, then they were rebadged as Linamar through 2003.
I got ONAN P218 in my case 6018 I would swap Honda engine 20hp .I would ask Honda engine is better than Onan ?
Not in my opinion, unless you like plastic timing gears!
@@MichaelTJD60 thanks
Onan is the best the older cast iron even better
I have searched and searched, and I could NOT find a magneto for a Montgomery Ward 16hp generator with this engine. I fabricated an aluminum plate with an Accel HEI module / ABS wheel sensor triggger / Kohler 2-wire coil. I went to the Onan website, and even the used parts were no longer available...... What did I miss?
A P218 engine has electronic ignition with an igniter module and a pickup ring, but it's not the same thing as a magneto. The pickup ring and module can be bought through Boomer's Onan Parts or a Cummins dealer, last I checked OnanParts.com is sold out of them.
@@MichaelTJD60 Thank you
My tag says on the onan change the oil every 25
That was the original recommended service interval for most of the Onan engines up until Deere began using them in the 300/400 series in '83. Compared to when the early Onan engines like the N, CCK, and B series were introduced (as far back as the 50's), oil and filter quality had improved greatly by that point, and have improved much more in the last 40 years since Deere tractors began using them.
@@MichaelTJD60 yeah
We have never had to take apart a 4 cycle engine because of carbon build up at least none that i am away.😩 now i am concerned.
Why do I only have one pedal on my 318?
Does it also have one hydraulic lever? Does it have power steering? If not, you have a 316.
I've searched and came up showing nothing on the firewalls there's just the page
The firewall and foam was only used on Deere tractors. Cub Cadet 82 series had a crude firewall with a small piece of foam insulation down around the flywheel housing but it wasn't a full foam sheet like Deere used. You won't find much info out there as most people don't know these tractors ever had foam insulation from the factory - many of them haven't survived after 40+ years.
So why is my bg48 airfilter look like a oil bath filter
Crankcase is overfull, or your piston rings are shot and are letting too much blow-by up through the breather and into the air filter box.
@@MichaelTJD60 but what I don't understand is never ever see blue smoke. Only when I get on a real steep side hill. Thanks Ed. Was going to repower S 20 steiner but am re thinking
@@edkauffman4808 You probably have a bad valve guide or valve seal that is letting oil get past it and on top of the piston when the engine is on an angle.
Did a cold compression check and only have 70 to 74 think going y
To pull head and install. New gaskets see if I can get 100. . Think that's to you I will be putting the money in the bg48g at this point
No wonder everybody wants to re-power their mower everybody don’t have those spare parts as much as I would like to say I like the Onan engine I think it would be much simpler to re-power and get rid of the other shit
Some like to go that route which I can understand, but like I said in the video, those repower kits aren't always plug and play.
So... are you forhire to rebuild my Onan? 😊
I can offer advice, but I'm not the best person to ask to do a rebuild - too many projects going on already, and it would take me a very long time to get your engine done properly. I redirected another user to the guys at Engine Masters (www.enginemastersinc.com/onanrebuilding/onanrebuilding.htm). They are one of the more reputable engine builders and have a lot of NOS Onan parts available.
Are we going to see you mowing?😁
Eventually, yes.
Why draw air from underneath a machine when especially it is cutting grass ? 99 percent of air cooled engines draw cool from the front Cars Trucks Jets Small Aircraft Lawn mowers from the top of the motor
With the exception of the older Onan-powered Case machines, the engines in these garden tractors were usually mounted backwards in the frame so the crankshaft rotated in the proper direction (counterclockwise) to turn the input shaft on the transmission. The idea with an air-cooled "small tractor", especially ones that were commonly used to mow grass, was to keep the engine heat away from the operator (and the grass/debris buildup near the mower deck) as much as possible - hence why the exhaust systems were almost always at the front of the machine. If the engines were mounted the opposite way, the majority of the heat they produce would be directed back toward the operator and the center of the tractor - given how quickly grass can accumulate in that area on a mowing tractor, it would become a fire hazard pretty quickly. Given the compact size of these tractors, there aren't many places the engine heat can go - so having it exit the front of the machine is usually the best choice.
I would only disagree with his last point. WOT can not possibly be a cooler running speed.
It is, as long as the cooling fins are not obstructed. The volume of air being pulled through the intake at 3450-3600 RPM far exceeds what the engine is moving at any lower RPM, but an obstruction in the path of that airflow will cause overheating just as quickly.
I have a perfect p218g crank dont need
Best thing to do is throw them onans away and put something else in it
I’ve had tons of these and used to repair them for Deere when I was younger. The kawi and Honda are longer lasting with much less maintenance more balls too.
@@freedomlawnservice1987 I can't vouch for the "more balls" when comparing to an opposed twin...Kawasaki's have always treated me well, especially when I was doing commercial mowing (they're probably the best gas engine on the market as far as the new stuff goes), but I've never had one handle tall grass as easily as one of my Onan's...especially when mowing overgrown properties.
@@freedomlawnservice1987 No way in hell would i take a Kawasaki over a onan or kohler. Those “more balls” are not what Kawasaki has compared to onans or kohlers. Me personally id never own a honda engine. I cant come to my senses to own an engine with a plastic cam gear. Especially after what happened withthe Kawasaki’s in the 90s.
For what a 318 cost right now, why the hell would somebody want to spend the same amount or more on a v twin swap? Wasted energy, IMO
@@JoshAllen17Goated Deere straightened Kawasaki out shortly after the cam gear issues surfaced. After the debacle with the KT17 Kohler engine failures (and all the lawsuits), Deere wasn't playing around with defective junk in their higher end machines anymore...and with the amount of money they were (and still are) giving Kawasaki to provide the engines for their equipment, you'd better hope Kawasaki is putting out a good engine now.
"These Ones" ...??? WTF...??? Just "THESE"...!
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