actually Jeremy could have not chosen to remove the last suspend counter (its a may) since Aurelia fury would resolve first and suspend resolves after which is where you make the choice
You don't cast the spell from the hand. You exile it and then you cast it from exile for free. So theoretically aurelias fury shouldn't have prevented the exiling of ancestral vision.
I have a Scion deck that I play all the time. You can stack the ability and do it "twice", but only if you hold priority. Once priority is passed, you cannot change scion until the next turn because he is a copy until end of turn, meaning that he loses his "change" ability because he is a copy of the chosen card.
(Travis) This week they had to build commander decks using only Modern legal cards. You can find the decklists here: www.starcitygames.com/article/32862_Commander-VS-Goes-Modern.html
+Star City Games Wes Wise made a mistake with Scion of Ur-Dragon. When it becomes a copy of the Dragon it's copying, it doesn't retain it's library searching ability. So Wes cant turn his Scion into Atarka, then attack, then search for something even stronger (with fire breathing, for example). So, You can tell Parnell he got his wish! Wes made a mistake, but he's still died xD
+Lost77 Though he could reverse the order - activate scion's ability searching for atarka, then activate searching for a firebreathing (like moltensteel). Let the first copy resolve, then firebreath(?) 10 or so times, then the atarka copy can resolve. Same result but requires you to shove everything into a quicker point.
The scenario they were trying though was Atarka -> Double Strike + Trample triggered -> Activate Scion again for a Fire Breather, which isn't possible because of the way they decided to try and stack the triggers. But yeah, the way you described it was how the combo is supposed to work. Which is weird. You'd think Wes would know that, because it's not the first time they've had Scion of Ur Dragon on Commander Vs., with the theme of the round being pretty much "One Shot Kill combos".
About 73 dragons You sure? Firebreathing, from what I've read, lasts beyond transformations. Should still work if you use Atarka and Moltensteel Dragon (Phyrexian Mana ftw). Pick Atarka 1st, then Moltensteel. Moltensteel resolves, then pump up attack in response, which will last until end of turn. Then finally let the Initial trigger resolve to turn it into Atarka Ur-Dragon and swing for the pain.
I agree with some of the other people on here, I'd love to see the guys play with their personal EDH decks! I know a lot of people may play normal boring cards with maybe the occasional random foil in their standard and modern decks, but many people use EDH and Legacy to really go hard and show off how shiny and beautiful or squiggly(for those of you who like foreignese cards) their collection is. -Stephen Kauffman
I don't think Scion can actually transform after the first transformation. Because after the transformation it no longer is a Scion and doesn't have the ability to transform anymore, cause in the ability it doesn't say that it keeps the ability to transform.
+dracobeans419 True, but funny enough it becomes the one you choose on the first activation. And I did mean after it already had changed. But yea stacking the ability is a good way to get dragons in to your graveyard.
+dracobeans419 You can but you need to do it in the other order. First you turn him into a pump dragon and pump him then you let him turn into a double striker or infect.,
+Kernunno K Just to clarify what I think you are saying: Activate Scion twice, First trigger resolves and becomes Shivan Dragon. Hold priority and pump him 6 times for +6, let those triggers resolve and get to the second Scion ability, Search Skithiryx up and he is a 10/4 Infecter until end of turn.
I just built a really fun patron of the moon deck and it got me thinking that kind of a nifty game for you gents would be to each play a different patron as your commander, they are really undervalued and need some love sent their way.
the bottle reference you were talking about wes, is from the movie, The Warriors. its a scene in the movie were a guy is clicking bottles together saying, "warriors, come out to play,". gang stuff.
Very fun video guys ! Decks were nice to watch and it seemed like you had fun (Especially Justin with all those spells he played.. Almost.) But you guys should really watch what you are saying on the tape regarding the comment section. I know there must be pretty funny things that people say down here but don't go and make fun of them on the video they watch, it's just the safest way to lose a good portion of your viewers. Keep doing what you do but stay respectful, you don't know what these people go through everyday and if you all laugh about what they say, there's no need to make fun of them.
Doesn't Scion of the Ur-Dragon lose his ability when he becomes a copy of a dragon until end of turn? 106:30 Wes searched for a second time on his turn.
Great match! I would suggest that you guys give pauper commander a try; it's a variant in which you select a common or uncommon creature as your general and the 99 consists entirely of Vintage-legal commons.
Is that how double strike work when the dragon turned in to the double strike dragon it attacked green did 1st strike with trample then carryed on with its reg dmg after it was blocked
Commander block constructed? Also once Scion becomes another dragon he can no longer search for other dragons that turn. Though you can hold priority and stack his ability multiple times if you're trying to fill up your graveyard or something.
Hey guys, great video :) Shame to see John gone, but Jeremy's doing a great job as the new fourth player! Following the discussion you had at the end, I have a Ruhan of the Fomori "modern card frame only" deck and it's a lot of fun to build with that restriction. One of the things I like about it is that it makes new supplemental product releases that much more exciting - a lot of people got excited about the Eternal Masters announcement, but for me it was extra exciting because it means Ruhan gets a Force of Will it can play! I also have a "no foils" policy which means I don't get cards like Mystical Tutor which has a modern border printing in From The Vault Exiled but no non-foil modern border printing. Maybe you guys should do modern border only decks when Eternal Masters comes out?
Best 1-drops ever made (discussion at 5:50) not based on Commander, but general power-level - Mother of Runes, followed by Goblin Lackey and Delver of Secrets.
Sweet vid as always guys. My week always gets better after watching some good ol commander. Thanks and keep it up. Also u guys should revisit the commanders from the 2015 product. I just really want to see Justin play Meren again. The week the product came out I bought the Meren deck and she is INSANE!!! Meren is now my pet deck in commander and my playgroups worst nightmare (for example we usually ban Iona in our games cuz she should honestly be banned in commander anyway, but whenever I pull out Meren or my one friend pulls out her Teferi deck another of our friends usually pulls out Oloro and will be allowed to put Iona in the 99.) Please let Justin play meren again. She demands love and sacrifice.
I Started playing Standard Commander and it's quite fun, mostly because a couple of new friends have just joined MTG so they lack older cards, and the games are quite fun, it feels more fit for 30hp 1v1 commander but we play it ffa and it's lots of fun. Since SOI the decks in our playgroup are, The Gitrog Value, Omnath Locust of Megaramp, Jori En Card Drawer, Ayli Eternal Lifegainer, Pia and Kiran's Fireworks, and my deck Atarka Smash!!!!!
Justin, you could use the hardlock: Knowledge Pool + Rule of Law. Its a kick in teh ass for the other players, but almost an unbeatable lock, because you are the only one who can cast spells by Jhoira :)
Actually, while the double faced cards retain their CMC for effects that care about that, eg ratchet bomb, they do not retain their devotion, so Iroas should still be offline.
711.4b While a double-faced permanent’s back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. However, its converted mana cost is calculated using the mana cost of its front face. This is a change from previous rules. If a permanent is copying the back face of a double-faced card (even if the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the converted mana cost of that permanent is 0. New rule change with Shadows over Innistrad
I think you can only use the Scion ability once per turn, because it becomes a copy of the searched card but there is no "and retains this ability" rider. I could be wrong, and I don't think Wes ever actually used it twice, but he did lose some points to it :) Anyway, fun game. Keep up the good work Gents.
@Star City Games, I would love to see a Voltron deck match where everyone builds decks specifically designed for their generals to do 21 points of general damage for the kills!
At around 1:06:30, Wes activates Scion to fail to find. Since he already searched for Artarka; Scion no longer has the ability to search. So basically he made an illegal search just to lose a point ;).
He needed to one more mana to cast black sun zenith 1:17:30 because of the Vryn Wingmare. He had access to the mana so I don't think it would have changed anything.
What is this! When i got my Omnath deck together you guys played Omnath on the next show. Now i just got my Oona deck together and here you are playing it. Now i get too many card ideas again and buy more cards than i should! ;,O
According to rule 202.3b, it's the converted mana cost that it retains. So Gideon has a CMC of 1, but no actual devotion to contribute to Iroas. Hopefully this can clear up the confusion for other people as well. :)
hey wes, I know you love to play blue durdle that just gives you cards so why not play Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar? he's a 1/5 for six that make you Anticipate instead of drawing cards so Wheel of Fortune effects will let you see 21 cards in one go. also you have the combo with Possessed Portal where everybody but you can no longer draw cards and have to discard a card a turn or sac a permanent every turn. making everyone lose at once with a 8 mana artifact seems like a nice way to make up for the Triskaidekaphobia loss. And you get to durdle away for as long as you want!
Okay, someone correct me - please - if I'm wrong, because I have a Jhoira deck that utilizes many of these cards and I think Justin immediately wasted Braid of Fire. His turn, Ancestral triggers, Green responds with Aurelia's Fury, then Braid ticks up. But Braid says, paraphrased: cumulative upkeep, add a counter to Braid then add R to mana pool for each counter. If you can't pay cumulative cost by using that mana, you must sacrifice it, requiring you to use the R on upkeep, which Justin did not use. So, anyone else catch that or have I somehow misunderstood the rules to Braid of Fire all this time?
+Faris The cost is adding the mana to your pool for each counter. It's says nothing about having to use the mana. If you proceed out of your upkeep the mana empties from your pool but that has no effect on braid of fire.
+Sam Halfman wow really? i guess being that it's a cumulative upkeep, like all others, i assumed if you can't pay it it must be sacrificed. kind of makes the word sacrifice unnecessary on braid. well, now i feel a fool. thanks for the info
+Faris The cost of the cumulative upkeep is the adding of the mana to your mana pool, not the using of the mana. So yeah, you have somehow misunderstood the rules to Braid of Fire all this time.
+Faris Yea, the card was designed when "mana burn" was a thing. So any unspent mana would cost you life. With the current ruleset it is a little unintuative but there is no 'drawback' per se, if you can't spend the mana just tick it up and go on with your turn.
+giovanni quintelli Yeah it seems to me that with it being so short it essentially bumping you down a place in your finish is a bit too much of a penalty. I realize that there's a desire to keep things moving along but too much effect from rules like that makes the results mean less.
No. Remember what Protection works against and it's obvious: DEBT. Damage, Enchant, Block, Target. Silumgar's ability doesn't target, just like a Protection from White wouldn't stop a Wrath of God.
Unlike what Stpehpen says, back sides of double faced cards do not count towards devotion. 711.4b. While a double-faced permanent's back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. However, its converted mana cost is calculated using the mana cost of its front face. [...] 700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.[...] Mana cost is not the same as converted mana cost.
Watching Wes play a proper Scion deck makes me want to put my Tribal Dragons back together....Yeah, thats what Im doing later. Dragons will always be my favourite tribe.
I think some more interesting card pool themes would be: A) Card pool are only cards from the 4 Commander releases + Commander's Arsenal 2) Card pool is only cards from the From the Vault products.
You can't use Scion's ability after it's become a copy of a card. Once it becomes a copy, it loses the Scion ability. Times tamp of error is about 1:06:00.
Dragon hunter! Lol it. I think the "hunters" in MTG are so flavorful and fun!Great match great to see Jeremy win. Enjoy watching you play. For modern I think I would have gotten Merieke if you wanted to take people's stuff. Loved that match look forward to next week
+David Myers (Jeremy) Merieke was a consideration, but as I said at the end of the video, Oona was the very first General I had in EDH, so there was a nostalgia factor to it as well.
Yeah I completely understand. EDH plays a very unique role in allowing players to express their personality and also let them bring back some fun memories. Keep up the great deck builds and fun matches.
I know they just did an Innistrad themed round, but how would Oliva Voldaren, Geist of Saint Traft, Grimgrin, Corpse Baron, and either Sigard or the legendary werewolf we'll probably get in Eldritch Moon, four way Innistrad Flavor Battle FTW
How about doing a Commander video with all Standard legal cards? I understand that may be expensive, but if you haven't already done so, I for one, would like to see it(as one of your "Folks at home")
I think that the time you guys have for deck searching is find when it regards land searching off of fetches. However, Wes searched at a very fast pace, and using a deck like Scion, trying to find an out in your 100 card singleton deck is very difficult in a 40 second span, as shown in this video. I love this series, and the addition of a clock to search is a very smart idea. However, maybe the time can be modified in conditions, because Wes essentially made no progress in the league for three moments in this match where he had to sprint through his deck to try and find an out. Just my opinion.
Not that it matters and someone probably already talked about it but Iroas' devotion can't be fed by puny flipped planeswalkers. It only works with mana symbols and Gideon has none.
+Marcello Menezes (Jeremy) Yeah, we were confused and looked it up after. The front side counts for things like color identity and converted mana cost, but not for devotion.
+Marcello Menezes No, he meant the front. The front side determines CMC as of SOI, and of course color identity (you can't play new Avacyn in a mono-red deck, has to be boros)
Food for thought. Isn't it more fun to enjoy watching peoples misplays rather than point them out in disgrace. After all, its not cheating if no one calls you out on it. I would rather read through a comment section of helpful, and fun thoughts on the game, rather than be reminded how the players are not perfect. Isn't that what EDH is about anyway?
I'm not sure how well this would work out, but it would be really cool if each deck was composed of cards released in a specific year or x year span. Each player would have a different age of magic to use!
+Vith marias (Jeremy) There are a few cards that are available in the free starter decks you can get form your local game store that are not included in the set, but are still legal in Standard.
I would love to see a Seizan, Perverter of Truth deck, mono-black group hug sounds fun. Also poor Wes, losing a point for searching as he died. I think he lost more points than he gained this video.
I do love restricted formats! How about Plane Commander? Each player could only play cards from a single plane, and could therefore build using, for example, only cards from ravnica block + return to ravnica block, or zendikar block + return to zendikar block. Would be interesting and flavorful I think!
I would love to see a Theros God battle where the decks are based around the gods abilities or the cards themselves. I.E. Erebos deck has Dictate of Erebos, Whip of Erebos, etc.
Format restriction theme deck idea: use only cards printed from the 90's. Style points if a person uses only 90's slang throughout the video. All competitors must dress in 90's fashion that is influenced music. (so hammer pants, crisscross, grunge, etc)
So Scion loses his ability to bin cards once he becomes a copy of Atarka around the 1hr 5min mark. He is therefore unable to search again and FTF. You can copy multiple times on the stack, and use activated abilities between the copies, but cannot activate after the ability resolves.
![Commander VS S3E5: Meren vs Ezuri vs Daxos vs Mizzix [MTG: Multiplayer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/loGTYPhi5mA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Commander VS S3E5: Meren vs Ezuri vs Daxos vs Mizzix [MTG: Multiplayer]](/img/tr.png)
![Commander VS S3E6: Arjun vs Yisan vs Erebos vs Kangee [MTG: Multiplayer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jMrD8Bx5Umc/mqdefault.jpg)
love the fact that dragon hunter gets his own damage counter for wes
Happened to see this comment before the game started, and all I can think is "...uh, oh...."
That Aurelia's Fury in response to the Ancestral Vision's Suspend trigger was a thing of beauty.
actually Jeremy could have not chosen to remove the last suspend counter (its a may) since Aurelia fury would resolve first and suspend resolves after which is where you make the choice
You don't cast the spell from the hand. You exile it and then you cast it from exile for free. So theoretically aurelias fury shouldn't have prevented the exiling of ancestral vision.
you cannot activate scion after the first activation resolves it loses the copy ability
Oh! My! Command tower isn't Modern legal!!!! @35:30
"I'm gonna kill you like it's 1993!" LMAO Wes's BEST line ever!
Love the Dragon Hunter damage counter! Huge fan of post-production shenanigans. Keep up the great work!
I have a Scion deck that I play all the time. You can stack the ability and do it "twice", but only if you hold priority. Once priority is passed, you cannot change scion until the next turn because he is a copy until end of turn, meaning that he loses his "change" ability because he is a copy of the chosen card.
(Travis) This week they had to build commander decks using only Modern legal cards. You can find the decklists here: www.starcitygames.com/article/32862_Commander-VS-Goes-Modern.html
+Star City Games Wes Wise made a mistake with Scion of Ur-Dragon. When it becomes a copy of the Dragon it's copying, it doesn't retain it's library searching ability. So Wes cant turn his Scion into Atarka, then attack, then search for something even stronger (with fire breathing, for example).
So, You can tell Parnell he got his wish! Wes made a mistake, but he's still died xD
+Lost77 Though he could reverse the order - activate scion's ability searching for atarka, then activate searching for a firebreathing (like moltensteel). Let the first copy resolve, then firebreath(?) 10 or so times, then the atarka copy can resolve. Same result but requires you to shove everything into a quicker point.
The scenario they were trying though was Atarka -> Double Strike + Trample triggered -> Activate Scion again for a Fire Breather, which isn't possible because of the way they decided to try and stack the triggers.
But yeah, the way you described it was how the combo is supposed to work. Which is weird. You'd think Wes would know that, because it's not the first time they've had Scion of Ur Dragon on Commander Vs., with the theme of the round being pretty much "One Shot Kill combos".
+Lost77 yeah I know. And actually what I described wouldn't work either. It's a hard thing to imagine so I don't fault them I suppose lol
About 73 dragons
You sure? Firebreathing, from what I've read, lasts beyond transformations. Should still work if you use Atarka and Moltensteel Dragon (Phyrexian Mana ftw). Pick Atarka 1st, then Moltensteel. Moltensteel resolves, then pump up attack in response, which will last until end of turn.
Then finally let the Initial trigger resolve to turn it into Atarka Ur-Dragon and swing for the pain.
I agree with some of the other people on here, I'd love to see the guys play with their personal EDH decks! I know a lot of people may play normal boring cards with maybe the occasional random foil in their standard and modern decks, but many people use EDH and Legacy to really go hard and show off how shiny and beautiful or squiggly(for those of you who like foreignese cards) their collection is.
-Stephen Kauffman
Thank u guys for playing Jhoira!!!
I thought the new SOI rule change (re: flipped planeswalkers) stated that they had the same CMC, but didn't count towards devotion.
Pauper Commander! Use pauper ban list. Each player has 30 life. All cards except for commanders are common. Commanders can be uncommon or common.
I don't think Scion can actually transform after the first transformation. Because after the transformation it no longer is a Scion and doesn't have the ability to transform anymore, cause in the ability it doesn't say that it keeps the ability to transform.
you can stack the abilities
+dracobeans419 True, but funny enough it becomes the one you choose on the first activation. And I did mean after it already had changed. But yea stacking the ability is a good way to get dragons in to your graveyard.
+dracobeans419
You can but you need to do it in the other order. First you turn him into a pump dragon and pump him then you let him turn into a double striker or infect.,
+NightKnigth1 it says scion becomes a copy until end of turn, so at the end of turn it turns back into scion with its original ability
+Kernunno K Just to clarify what I think you are saying:
Activate Scion twice, First trigger resolves and becomes Shivan Dragon. Hold priority and pump him 6 times for +6, let those triggers resolve and get to the second Scion ability, Search Skithiryx up and he is a 10/4 Infecter until end of turn.
I want to see their own personal EDH decks. The ones they play outside of the show.
you saw the Melek vs Tolsimir back in David and Danny days right? man that was awesome
I just built a really fun patron of the moon deck and it got me thinking that kind of a nifty game for you gents would be to each play a different patron as your commander, they are really undervalued and need some love sent their way.
Comodern...I liked it. Modern is my favorite format. But I do agree with Steven, commander cards are amazing to use. Looking forward to next video :D
I think this format was fun! I do also like the idea of anything printed in a commander deck or standard!
Awesome to come back here and see all the stack masters in the comments explaining how ish works
the bottle reference you were talking about wes, is from the movie, The Warriors. its a scene in the movie were a guy is clicking bottles together saying, "warriors, come out to play,". gang stuff.
Very fun video guys ! Decks were nice to watch and it seemed like you had fun (Especially Justin with all those spells he played.. Almost.)
But you guys should really watch what you are saying on the tape regarding the comment section. I know there must be pretty funny things that people say down here but don't go and make fun of them on the video they watch, it's just the safest way to lose a good portion of your viewers.
Keep doing what you do but stay respectful, you don't know what these people go through everyday and if you all laugh about what they say, there's no need to make fun of them.
wow that seems like the perfect deck for justin, playing a slow and fun deck that allows control and long term scheming
Doesn't Scion of the Ur-Dragon lose his ability when he becomes a copy of a dragon until end of turn? 106:30 Wes searched for a second time on his turn.
Wes misplayed, by the way. Once Scion becomes a copy of something it doesn't regain its ability until it ceases to be a copy.
I don't recall what modern set command tower was printed in, seems like Mr. Green has made a mistake
Hey, Stephen! Commander Tower isn't modern legal!
+Andrew Jacobs Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Command Tower isn't Modern legal either!
Fearl Ha! Good call... I totally did that on purpose (not)
I would like to see you play some of the rarely played Commanders. Like Daghatar the Adamant for Example.
Great match! I would suggest that you guys give pauper commander a try; it's a variant in which you select a common or uncommon creature as your general and the 99 consists entirely of Vintage-legal commons.
Is that how double strike work when the dragon turned in to the double strike dragon it attacked green did 1st strike with trample then carryed on with its reg dmg after it was blocked
Commander block constructed? Also once Scion becomes another dragon he can no longer search for other dragons that turn. Though you can hold priority and stack his ability multiple times if you're trying to fill up your graveyard or something.
They did commander block constructed already. It was the one where Justin played Athreos.
Hey guys, great video :) Shame to see John gone, but Jeremy's doing a great job as the new fourth player!
Following the discussion you had at the end, I have a Ruhan of the Fomori "modern card frame only" deck and it's a lot of fun to build with that restriction. One of the things I like about it is that it makes new supplemental product releases that much more exciting - a lot of people got excited about the Eternal Masters announcement, but for me it was extra exciting because it means Ruhan gets a Force of Will it can play!
I also have a "no foils" policy which means I don't get cards like Mystical Tutor which has a modern border printing in From The Vault Exiled but no non-foil modern border printing.
Maybe you guys should do modern border only decks when Eternal Masters comes out?
can you guys do an episode of pauper commander!?!?!?
the commanders themselves would have to break this rule as the lowest rarity legendary creatures are uncommon from the kamigawa sets
+Garett Blackburn not true. There are many legends that are commons
Like which one? We're talking paper magic here.
Barktooth warbeard, joven
He was an uncommon.magiccards.info/query?q=barktooth&v=card&s=cname
Best 1-drops ever made (discussion at 5:50) not based on Commander, but general power-level - Mother of Runes, followed by Goblin Lackey and Delver of Secrets.
You misspelled Deathrite Shaman three times in the same sentence!!!
Sweet vid as always guys. My week always gets better after watching some good ol commander. Thanks and keep it up.
Also u guys should revisit the commanders from the 2015 product. I just really want to see Justin play Meren again. The week the product came out I bought the Meren deck and she is INSANE!!! Meren is now my pet deck in commander and my playgroups worst nightmare (for example we usually ban Iona in our games cuz she should honestly be banned in commander anyway, but whenever I pull out Meren or my one friend pulls out her Teferi deck another of our friends usually pulls out Oloro and will be allowed to put Iona in the 99.) Please let Justin play meren again. She demands love and sacrifice.
just wondering, where was the turn him into teneb, grab back utvara hellkite? its rather essential in the scion of the ur-dragon deck
I Started playing Standard Commander and it's quite fun, mostly because a couple of new friends have just joined MTG so they lack older cards, and the games are quite fun, it feels more fit for 30hp 1v1 commander but we play it ffa and it's lots of fun. Since SOI the decks in our playgroup are, The Gitrog Value, Omnath Locust of Megaramp, Jori En Card Drawer, Ayli Eternal Lifegainer, Pia and Kiran's Fireworks, and my deck Atarka Smash!!!!!
What bout plane constructed after Eldrich moon comes out?
Poor Jhiora :c
She's my main commander, I love playing with her. Seeing her choke so bad makes me very sad.
How about mono-color tribal decks? Zombies, Soldiers, Elves, and Merfolk would be pretty interesting...
I had never noticed the "damage dealt by dragon hunter" icon. That's great
I would love to see the block draft again
Justin, you could use the hardlock: Knowledge Pool + Rule of Law.
Its a kick in teh ass for the other players, but almost an unbeatable lock, because you are the only one who can cast spells by Jhoira :)
Actually, while the double faced cards retain their CMC for effects that care about that, eg ratchet bomb, they do not retain their devotion, so Iroas should still be offline.
+Charles Gouraud (GBA Let's Play) However, when the Journey to Nowhere entered, then Iroas would become online.
711.4b While a double-faced permanent’s back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. However, its converted mana cost is calculated using the mana cost of its front face. This is a change from previous rules. If a permanent is copying the back face of a double-faced card (even if the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the converted mana cost of that permanent is 0.
New rule change with Shadows over Innistrad
Thanks, and also thanks for trying to keep the information on the video correct.
At 1:07:00, Wes used Scion's ability after it was already an Atarka. Atarka does not have Scion's ability >:[
I think you can only use the Scion ability once per turn, because it becomes a copy of the searched card but there is no "and retains this ability" rider. I could be wrong, and I don't think Wes ever actually used it twice, but he did lose some points to it :) Anyway, fun game. Keep up the good work Gents.
@Star City Games, I would love to see a Voltron deck match where everyone builds decks specifically designed for their generals to do 21 points of general damage for the kills!
+Shane Lemmo Honestly in my experience Voltron vs. Voltron matchups are really boring. It's just who goes off faster and who has more kill spells.
Sorry I'm new to mtg so what's the difference between regular damage and commander damage
At around 1:06:30, Wes activates Scion to fail to find. Since he already searched for Artarka; Scion no longer has the ability to search. So basically he made an illegal search just to lose a point ;).
I cannot wait for the points next week with all of Wes' searching
He needed to one more mana to cast black sun zenith 1:17:30 because of the Vryn Wingmare. He had access to the mana so I don't think it would have changed anything.
What is this! When i got my Omnath deck together you guys played Omnath on the next show. Now i just got my Oona deck together and here you are playing it. Now i get too many card ideas again and buy more cards than i should! ;,O
According to rule 202.3b, it's the converted mana cost that it retains. So Gideon has a CMC of 1, but no actual devotion to contribute to Iroas. Hopefully this can clear up the confusion for other people as well. :)
hey wes, I know you love to play blue durdle that just gives you cards so why not play Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar? he's a 1/5 for six that make you Anticipate instead of drawing cards so Wheel of Fortune effects will let you see 21 cards in one go. also you have the combo with Possessed Portal where everybody but you can no longer draw cards and have to discard a card a turn or sac a permanent every turn.
making everyone lose at once with a 8 mana artifact seems like a nice way to make up for the Triskaidekaphobia loss. And you get to durdle away for as long as you want!
Thanks for playing Jhoira!!!! :D she is my new commander! any tip or basic ideas for playing her? i just got her XD
can u guys do a 4 commander decks with different types of angels.
Okay, someone correct me - please - if I'm wrong, because I have a Jhoira deck that utilizes many of these cards and I think Justin immediately wasted Braid of Fire. His turn, Ancestral triggers, Green responds with Aurelia's Fury, then Braid ticks up. But Braid says, paraphrased: cumulative upkeep, add a counter to Braid then add R to mana pool for each counter. If you can't pay cumulative cost by using that mana, you must sacrifice it, requiring you to use the R on upkeep, which Justin did not use. So, anyone else catch that or have I somehow misunderstood the rules to Braid of Fire all this time?
+Faris The cost is adding the mana to your pool for each counter. It's says nothing about having to use the mana. If you proceed out of your upkeep the mana empties from your pool but that has no effect on braid of fire.
+Sam Halfman wow really? i guess being that it's a cumulative upkeep, like all others, i assumed if you can't pay it it must be sacrificed. kind of makes the word sacrifice unnecessary on braid. well, now i feel a fool. thanks for the info
+Faris The cost of the cumulative upkeep is the adding of the mana to your mana pool, not the using of the mana. So yeah, you have somehow misunderstood the rules to Braid of Fire all this time.
+Faris Yea, the card was designed when "mana burn" was a thing. So any unspent mana would cost you life. With the current ruleset it is a little unintuative but there is no 'drawback' per se, if you can't spend the mana just tick it up and go on with your turn.
can you play where every card is legal? vintage style
+StarCityGames Theros Gods commander!!! Would be awesome, id love to see the bs purphoros deck hahaha
I think you should get the search time to one minute or at least to a 0.5 point lose
+giovanni quintelli Yeah it seems to me that with it being so short it essentially bumping you down a place in your finish is a bit too much of a penalty. I realize that there's a desire to keep things moving along but too much effect from rules like that makes the results mean less.
Tutoring is not fun. It should be punished :D and 30 sec is enough to use your fetches or if you know what you are looking for.
Since Dragon Hunter has protection from dragons, shouldn't Silumgar the Drifting Death's -1/-1 ability be unable to kill it?
No. Remember what Protection works against and it's obvious: DEBT. Damage, Enchant, Block, Target. Silumgar's ability doesn't target, just like a Protection from White wouldn't stop a Wrath of God.
Something my group is wanting to try in standard only. only cards in standard. seems like a fun idea
Unlike what Stpehpen says, back sides of double faced cards do not count towards devotion.
711.4b. While a double-faced permanent's back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. However, its converted mana cost is calculated using the mana cost of its front face. [...]
700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.[...]
Mana cost is not the same as converted mana cost.
I think you are right
took me a bit to notice the dragon hunter damage counter on wes, lol
+SpawnSterr (Travis) Clearly Dragon Hunter was the MVP this video.
Watching Wes play a proper Scion deck makes me want to put my Tribal Dragons back together....Yeah, thats what Im doing later. Dragons will always be my favourite tribe.
I keep getting a playback error. :(
I think some more interesting card pool themes would be:
A) Card pool are only cards from the 4 Commander releases + Commander's Arsenal
2) Card pool is only cards from the From the Vault products.
on the backside of a dfc, it retains the same cmc, not mana cost. slightly different. doesn't add to devotion
That was probably me Jeremy mentioned about the comment last week lol
about devotion and double faced cards the card retains the cmc(1 in case of gideon) and not the color so it doesn't count towards devotion
Could you do game where cards are restricted to a plane? Innistrad would be a good pick given standard atm
You can't use Scion's ability after it's become a copy of a card. Once it becomes a copy, it loses the Scion ability. Times tamp of error is about 1:06:00.
Dragon hunter! Lol it. I think the "hunters" in MTG are so flavorful and fun!Great match great to see Jeremy win. Enjoy watching you play. For modern I think I would have gotten Merieke if you wanted to take people's stuff. Loved that match look forward to next week
+David Myers (Jeremy) Merieke was a consideration, but as I said at the end of the video, Oona was the very first General I had in EDH, so there was a nostalgia factor to it as well.
Yeah I completely understand. EDH plays a very unique role in allowing players to express their personality and also let them bring back some fun memories. Keep up the great deck builds and fun matches.
Can you guys maybe do an Artifact-Deck Commander Versus? I'd like to see a Pia and Kiran Nalaar deck.
Why is there a timer over the card?
Dragon hunter ftw! Stephen definitely needed a few more board-wipes though
....also you should do pw vs phyrexians vs nicol bolas vs eldrazi :D
Is command tower legal in Modern??
Did Jeremy play Black Sun's Zenith as an instant?
Single Set commander decks, battle of the sets. Lorwyn-shadowmoor is a special case counting as one set.
I know they just did an Innistrad themed round, but how would Oliva Voldaren, Geist of Saint Traft, Grimgrin, Corpse Baron, and either Sigard or the legendary werewolf we'll probably get in Eldritch Moon, four way Innistrad Flavor Battle FTW
When Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of another Dragon, it loses its copy ability for the rest of the turn.
How about doing a Commander video with all Standard legal cards? I understand that may be expensive, but if you haven't already done so, I for one, would like to see it(as one of your "Folks at home")
+Rohan841r compared to what they already spend, it shouldnt be that different in cost
Is it possible for you guys to do a two headed giant tribal war thing?... I think that would be pretty cool to see
+Dankie boi They did with the Eldrazi vs the Allies
and dragons vs. khans....
I think that the time you guys have for deck searching is find when it regards land searching off of fetches. However, Wes searched at a very fast pace, and using a deck like Scion, trying to find an out in your 100 card singleton deck is very difficult in a 40 second span, as shown in this video. I love this series, and the addition of a clock to search is a very smart idea. However, maybe the time can be modified in conditions, because Wes essentially made no progress in the league for three moments in this match where he had to sprint through his deck to try and find an out. Just my opinion.
Why couldnt wes cast temur ascendancy?
Not that it matters and someone probably already talked about it but Iroas' devotion can't be fed by puny flipped planeswalkers. It only works with mana symbols and Gideon has none.
+Marcello Menezes (Jeremy) Yeah, we were confused and looked it up after. The front side counts for things like color identity and converted mana cost, but not for devotion.
The back side, you meant. :)
+Marcello Menezes No, he meant the front. The front side determines CMC as of SOI, and of course color identity (you can't play new Avacyn in a mono-red deck, has to be boros)
Wait so was primeval titan legal?
One of you guys should play Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Food for thought. Isn't it more fun to enjoy watching peoples misplays rather than point them out in disgrace. After all, its not cheating if no one calls you out on it. I would rather read through a comment section of helpful, and fun thoughts on the game, rather than be reminded how the players are not perfect. Isn't that what EDH is about anyway?
>it's not cheating if no one calls you out on it
K Alex Burtoncheatyface
at 1:11 why didnt jeremy kill both of them
Because they haven’t started yet
I'm not sure how well this would work out, but it would be really cool if each deck was composed of cards released in a specific year or x year span. Each player would have a different age of magic to use!
Man I think it would be interesting to see one of these guys play a samurai deck with Fumiko the Lowblood as the commander.
why do i feel like commander series will become " who will win Jeremy or Justin
Why did the preview of Shivan Dragon have a Magic Origins set symbol??? What sorcery is this???
+Vith marias I believe it is available in the Deck Builders Toolkit.
+Vith marias (Jeremy) There are a few cards that are available in the free starter decks you can get form your local game store that are not included in the set, but are still legal in Standard.
I would love to see a Seizan, Perverter of Truth deck, mono-black group hug sounds fun.
Also poor Wes, losing a point for searching as he died. I think he lost more points than he gained this video.
I do love restricted formats! How about Plane Commander? Each player could only play cards from a single plane, and could therefore build using, for example, only cards from ravnica block + return to ravnica block, or zendikar block + return to zendikar block. Would be interesting and flavorful I think!
I would love to see a Theros God battle where the decks are based around the gods abilities or the cards themselves. I.E. Erebos deck has Dictate of Erebos, Whip of Erebos, etc.
Format restriction theme deck idea: use only cards printed from the 90's. Style points if a person uses only 90's slang throughout the video. All competitors must dress in 90's fashion that is influenced music. (so hammer pants, crisscross, grunge, etc)
When was nicol bolas reprinted?
+Travis Herman It was one of the TImeshifted cards in Time Spiral (which are all modern legal).
So Scion loses his ability to bin cards once he becomes a copy of Atarka around the 1hr 5min mark. He is therefore unable to search again and FTF. You can copy multiple times on the stack, and use activated abilities between the copies, but cannot activate after the ability resolves.
Yup
came for this
If you use Scion to become a copy of something, it's a copy of that creature, it doesn't say, "and has this ability" ...
Can Wes go to negative points?
Why thing sounds with 40 seconds I though have be over 40 seconds lose and points not at 40 seconds