We NEED To Talk About Ali-express And Microbrand Watches… (Best Value For Money Watches)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Discord : / discord
In todays video we simply talk about how absolutely insane aliexpress and microbrand watches are getting in terms of quality and value for money, because they could kill the big name brands in this industry! Formex, Maen, Christopher Ward, Monta, Mido, Farer etc all beat seiko (seiko presage, seiko 5, seiko prospex), orient (orient bambino, orient kamasu), Citizen (citizen tsuyosa), tissot (Tisoot prx, Tissot gentleman, Tissot seastar), Hamilton (Hamilton field) and more large brand models! Its getting bloody worrying!
(footage by Teddy Baldassarre + Watch Geek + Bens Watch Club + YoureTerrific + WristWatching)
#swiss #watch #watches #rolex #luxury #list
I have little sympathy for the established luxury brands - they have been raising prices way beyond inflation for years. They think that customers will just cough up. Rolex is the most arrogant, but Omega is now doing the same. The premium they are asking just because of the name and 'heritage' is no longer justified.
Agreed.
I did hold that view but at the same time - we are to blame. If the prices rise then people are buying them at that price. Market forces apply to watches just as much to any other goods - "veblen good" or otherwise. There are only so many workers in Switzerland and many developed nation populations are declining, so there are natural supply limitations. Rolex already does a lot of automation and Tudor's new factory is massively automated. That's the only way they can boost supply. Rolex are doing that with a new big factory coming online in 2029 and some other make-shift measures going live before then. So they are ramping up supply, but demand is currently outstripping it.
But I also hold the view that they are arrogant and also taking backwards steps in may of the models with sizes and proportions and overall designs. I'd go as far to say they are betraying their heritage, and I think it's fair game that other manufacturers revive some past designs and/or improve and adapt existing ones.
100% agree
Yes sir!
They can't do that unless there are ignorant customers willing to pay it.
What use is heritage if you don't feel it on your wrist?
I know some people don't like it, but this is what a healthy market looks like.
New brands making more with less and older ones have to either adapt or die off.
The 70's there was the quartz crisis and now there might be a Chinese crisis. Its an interesting concept for discussion. Microbrands and AE watches are killing it and traditional watches are struggling to keep up! I for one love the idea that I can buy a Seiko or Citizen and know there is heritage and know that they have the infrastructure and support in place to take care of me when something happens...Except they in some cases don't and the consumer is left out to dry. Something microbrands are particularly good at is client feedback and adaptation and customer care. You work with the people who make the watch and love what they do, not some guy who hates his 9-5 job. As for heritage... All brands had to start somewhere and supporting the little guy seems a bit more ethical than support a large soulless corporation like Swatch etc... Have a great week bud! 😁👌
I agree! And as always you’re first on the scene! Much love my man, also I tried to add in a lot f more editing, good or bad?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Thanks bud! Looks great man! Very polished and professional!
I think citizen, Seiko, and Casio are safe considering the wide consumer audience. The other brands tho..
@@CybertroninfiniteOfficial oh yeah and they suppply the movements in the aliexpress watches, but theyre still outperforming the big name brands
@@CybertroninfiniteOfficialpagani and other homage brands are honestly beating seiko 5s (in specs) for like a quarter of the price its honestly insane
I'm wearing a 39mm San Martin Explorer homage with green dial right now. I received it Saturday and can't stop looking at it. Just a beautiful watch. Also, it's my third San Martin and maybe twelfth Ali Express watch. The value of them is just outstanding.
The value is genuinely insane, doesn’t get better bang for your buck to be frank
Just ordered a San Martin. Insane value, tbh.
@@Harudes yup
I got several san martins , you cant go wrong with them . Who wants a Rolex that will nowadays get ripped off your wrist.
And the Sans are good to look at , first class choice , now you started you wont stop buying them .Quality👍
Same here,
I think a huge problem too is Seiko randomly deciding to move "upmarket" and start increasing their prices.....while offering worse specs. If they still had fantastic watches for cheap it'd work, but they just don't! To me it seems like they're trying to go upmarket and make Orient the "starter" watch brand.
It's not random. It was to bring up the perceived value of Grand Seiko. They removed Seiko label from the GS dials.
I'll never buy Seiko again. My old friend is now dead to me.
Yup I agree, they’ve gotten more expensive but worse specs consistently since the skx was discontinued
They also have ALBA brand that sell cheaper models.
@@Chris-de2qc Then what does that have to do with the Seiko brand? Grand Seiko is already a separate brand that we know is their upmarket brand. Seiko is their main brand. So now they're selling $750 watches, sometimes still using hardlex and the same 4R movement that their $200 dollar watches have.
I picked up an Addiesdive For £80 and the quality of the watch is extraordinary for the price. Comparing it side by side with my £680 Seiko Alpinist there really isn't much difference in finishing. The big boys need to watch out, the quality of these Chinese watches is getting better all the time.
Fully agree, especially value for money wise, an £80 watch should not be comparable to a £680 watch lol
I somewhat disagree. Most of my collection is name brand Japanese, Swiss, and (mostly US-based) micro-brand watches, but I've bought half dozen or so Aliexpress watches (San Martin, Seestern, etc.). The Chinese watches are fine and good values, but 90% are homages or even replicas, and the few unique designs are all very meh. They are still in the copy-cat phase of development and mostly reliant on Japanese or Swiss movements, with the occasional seagull or hangzhou movement. And they are manufacturing at such a smaller scale than the Seikos of the world. Their very best sellers sell a couple to a few hundred units, whereas a limited edition Seiko is 4,000-15,000 units. And brands still matter with watches, as they are a form of accessory/fashion item. So, yeah, if you want a casual beater type watch, the Chinese watches are terrific. But I still think they have a ways to go to challenge the Japanese and the Swiss makers.
I do feel differently about the Microbrands. There I see more innovation and customer service. I do love many of them, like Baltic, Lorier, Traska, Maen, the resurrected Smiths brand. These have found a great niche in the $400-$1,000 price range offering interesting watches that do rival some of the established brands.
The Chinese AE brands are moving onto a new phase whereby competition among themselves is forcing them to up their game in regards to quality control, resulting in better value.
We are just starting to see the manufacturers getting to the point that some of them are starting to realize that the homage game is getting too competitive so they are gaining the confidence to branch out into more origina inhouse brand designs.
Along with this we are seeing the quality rise but also the prices are rising also.
Sure there are still cheap homages getting pumped out but also there is a trend towards more interesting designs.
I am of the opinion now that the Rolex dive watch type/style watches are so copied and homaged with some new design tweaks that I consider the dive watch to be more of a generic thing now than an attempt to copy.
As long as the Rolex name is not on them anywhere of course. Rolex, Omega, Seiko, Longines etc,,, etc,,, all have dive models out there so the design has become a generic style of watch with the same but essentials but with different takes of the basic design.
Just don't steal brand names in an attempt to pretend to be something that you are not. That is low class and kind of pitiful at best.
I have addiesdive watch.
The case finishing and bracelet are great.
Spec list is crazy considering £55.
I own 4 Pagani Design 'homages' and they're well made quality watches, I get to wear on my wrist a stainless steel Daytona lookalike all for £70 and I'm happy with that!
Could it be that the big brands were gouging us all along?
Pfft probably
Of course...
Of course they were - like sheep punters queued up to be “ dipped” !
Regardless of whether you love them, hate them or are indifferent to them, I don't think you can call Christopher Ward a microbrand anymore.
I suppose I agree!
Christopher Ward is amazing
@joshuachin are they expensive?
I love CW. Great options at usually around $1k.
Great video, the micros out there are smashing it out of the park, value,origonality,specs and quality. Its been a year of microbrands for me and its going to continue. And as for the ali watches, if you can get over the non origonal designs of most, they're really good value and even the cheapies like pagani for what you pay, you get a lot of watch.
Agree, you can get some stunning timepieces for some really low prices!
I've already got a bunch of AliExpress watches, plus a bunch of custom ones with parts from there. Just bought 5 over the weekend in the sale. Prices were too good to resist - San Martin, Sea-Gull, Merkur, Berny, and Specht & Sohne. In the past I've bought Heimdallr, Seestern, Steeldive, IX&DAO etc. There is just a ton of great brands to explore
Great value and a cracking collection you must have!
All or most of those "brands" are just different names for the same CCP junk made using child slave labor.
I thought I might have a problem, having binge purchased 11 AliExpress watches this past January. Your post has squashed that notion. Many thanks.
So true. For a new watch enthusiast who is looking for a great quality watch for a affordable price, there's nothing offered by seiko at this moment.
Exactly, they’re dominating the budget market these days
They even discontinued the perennial name-brand "starter automatic", the SNK800 series. There's the SRPH29, SRPG27, etc. which are very similar, but street prices for those are nearly 3x higher! I realize that with inflation being what is has been, they can't sell the barely-upgraded versions for the same price, but they should have just replaced the 7S26 in the SNK80x's with the 4R34 for the hacking/handwinding, priced it at ~$195 retail (~$150 street) and called it a day.
This is a superlative video. Great production and presentation. I have the Pagani Design PD-1692 that I bought in July of 2022 for $86.00. It's a homage to the current Air King with its own twist. It has everything that I like about the 2022 and 2023 Air King. No crown guards and the older Oyster case from the 2022 and the 05 markers. I'm always blown away by the quality. Oh, and it contains a Seiko NH-35 movement.
It's rated at 200 feet. I've taken it snorkeling and swimming and it's been perfect. The only flaw is that it's micro adjustments are impossible to adjust. Easily solved with a $15 aftermarket glidelock clasp.
Much appreciated! Some of the clips aren’t mine as the description says, a few are but for other clips I use I have asked or have credited those that the clips belong to :)
I know what you're talking about with those micro adjustments haha. I don't have the watch myself, but helped to adjust it. You have to pull the spring bar out with some dental floss, then put it back in the hole you want. I'm sure you're much happier with the new one. Stupid design, sure you can't see the holes. It still needs to be adjusted. Aesthetics over function there.
Aliexpress isn't 'cheap'. It is just selling watches for what they are really worth. By modern engineering standards mechanical watches are extremely simple pieces of technology made from very low cost materials. They should be *very* cheap. A genuine Rolex or Omega could be manufactured in China for under $80.
I'm a fan of San Martin and Christopher Ward. Grest bang for buck with each of these brands. Seiko can suck it - unsigned crowns, mineral glass, ceappy bracelets and missligned bezels - hah!
I completely agree lad! Seiko have so many recourses and infinite experience yet they keep dissapointing
It makes sense cuz you are getting a Seiko movement with a better design and finish with regards to case and bracelets
Folded metal bracelets, mineral glass, poor finishing. Seiko are greedy and lazy unless it is at the point of Grand Seiko, at which point for Rolex money, craftsmanship steps in.
CW is miles ahead of SM. I would never put them in the same category.
@@faubourglincoln They are leaders in their own categories.
Or maybe it will force the legacy brands, whether mid-range or high-end, to find ways to cut costs but not quality. Might be healthy for the whole industry.
Also a good argument, I look forwards to seeing what happens
I received my first Zelos last week and wondered why I hadn’t already got more in the collection. Also have an eye on the 11/11 Ali express sale with 7 watches in my basket whilst I try to decide which to buy! I also have the 3861 speedy pro, a Seamaster and BB58. Not sure I ll ever spend that kind of money ever again.
These watches are so good at the price so there’s almost no point in buying luxury watches nowadays lol
i just now found these watches, i found one i really like, $9 = 9 F'n $ ! = how the hell can that be !?! i have, of late, been looking at the $100k+ watches, the only way i could afford one of those is to win the lottery. but, in the end, as of now, i am not a watch wearer. (edit), i just thought, i could buy a few and wear them here at my desk and i could pretend i am important. maybe buy some penny stocks and pretend i am an investor, lol, sad.
Very well presented with high quality images. I thought you were a well established channel that I’ve never seen before. You’re going to make it in the TH-cam space. Liked and subbed!
Appreciate the support! Trying my best over here xD
I've owned pretty much every brand out there, and at this point in history, Ali Express is where it is at. There's some things that can't really do .. like imitate a G-Shock, but there's not a lot of reason these days to buy the traditional brands.
Oh interesting what brands have you owned?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Rolex, Casio, Citizen, Tissot, Hamilton, Smiths, Seiko, Orient, Bertucci, Marathon, Halios, Helson, Laco, Steinhart, Lum-tec, Orient-star, Sea-gull, Stowa, TWCO, Wenger, Mondaine, Georg Jensen, Luminox, Bulova, Seestern, .... probably others I can't think of now
It worries me too. Just imagine getting mugged for a San Martin because it looked the part.
Great topic and solid talking points. I’d appreciate it if you credited me for my Addiesdive clip at 0:22. Keep up the hustle.
Oh funnily enough I was just watching ya! And yeah will do my apologies, love your channel so much the value for money you cover is amazing! Join my discord I’ll add it to the description now, and let’s talk watches some time!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Thanks a lot, Rudi. Appreciate it! Seriously, keep up the hustle. You’re doing great and I’m sure you’ll blow up in no time. I’ll join your Discord once I get around to reinstalling the app. ;)
Help me understand this argument about "heritage" because I don't understand why that has anything to do with the price of the watch. Rolex selling the myth rather than the product itself, of course some of their watches will go for 5 figures or even more. But when it comes to incredible products, Seiko is king.
I'm a huge fan of these watches. You just can't go wrong for the money. I really like that if you have a problem down the line, swap the movement and keep on, vs having to get an expensive service.
I agree they’re such insane value it’s incredible what they can do!
You can go wrong as QC is still a lottery. See my other post. 3 of the 6 San Martins I've bought have had QC issues. I have a 7th on the way - fingers crossed.
@@thegornfor sure, I've experienced that as well. When they are good, they are really good though. Because of this, I only buy on Amazon or direct from Watchdives nowadays. Much more direct and quick resolving issues vs Ali, although you'll pay more. The sales are great, but I won't bother anymore
this is exactly my thinking 🔥
@@thegornsorry for the late reply, just saw this reply. I agree, which is why I only buy from Amazon or Watchdives. I'll happily pay a bit more to be able to exchange easily. Watchdives also claims to qc their watches, and id believe it. I've bought a half dozen from them with not a single flaw
I would have never consider an established brand without these new brands bringing me into the market. I adore my Baltany linen dial and now I am working with a jeweler form my childhood on a couple new Jaeger-LeCoultre watches.
Damnnn awesome JLC are some cracking timepieces
You said alot that made alot of sense... well done... I don't even know if we should even call Christopher Ward a microbrand any more. That being said, we've left out 1 important factor... a watch isn't a cellphone... with care and occasional servicing, it should last for decades. One day my child will be wearing one of several of her Daddy's watches, she will remember her Daddy when she puts it on and she might remember seeing that watch worn by me throughout the day... she may get it serviced and plan to pass it on (long after my car is gone)... I feel better if my watches are Seiko's (the presage was chosed for her actually), rather than San Martin's.
I would personally bet on a seiko presage for example outlasting a San Martin going off the fact they have the same movement but San Martin have better finishing and quality control, whichever you prefer though! I’m sure your daughter will love em :D
The only problem with micro brands is longevity. I recently had to have extensive work done on my 1974 Seiko 6139-6002, my watchmaker had no problem in sourcing OEM parts. On the other hand, when I tried to buy a bracelet for my four year-old Christopher Ward, I was told it is out of production. The fact is that carrying an inventory of parts is expensive, but to those who want to keep their watches for a lifetime, it is an important issue to consider. I own 38 watches, dating back to 1972 and have never sold a watch… I buy watches to celebrate important occasions and events, and they hold sentimental value for me.
This is, of course, not much of a problem for micro brands under $500 for daily use as you simply buy a new watch if things go wrong. Due to my longevity concerns, I cannot bring myself to pay the high prices of Monta, Oak & Oscar, etc. but rather buy hertitage brands such as Seiko, Zodiac, Squale and Longines.
All extremely valid points my friend! I will say that for budget watches it’s fine but on the higher end you may want a second thought
Thanks for your prompt response! I totally agree… apart from Proxima and San Martin, it is hard to ignore the Baltics of the watch world. This an excellent video… thought provoking and raising interesting discussions. Liked and subscribed.
@@edteach3r really appreciate the support! And very interesting comment too, much appreciated:)
I have bought 4 Aliexpress quartz watches recently and I have decided that is the way to go for me in the future. All these watches have Seiko or Sellita movements, full stainless cases,3 have sapphire crystals, and every single one has flawless finishing. The big name brands have absolutely nothing to offer over these watches.
My last Seiko auto watch is so inconsistently inaccurate that it is unwearable. I will never make that mistake again as it was 3x the price of the average Aliexpress offering.
You talk about these large / old watch brands like they are a family owned business with the same old artisan that has hand crafted the watches for the past 70 years… they are a nameless corporate entity that has gone through bankruptcy, takeovers, sales, acquisitions, lay offs, new factories, oversea production, etc…. They have nothing other than the name
That’s true for quite a few yeah, a couple heritage brands are family owned though and hand finished but they’re the much more expensive ones lol
The big brands did it to themselves. I have 0 interest in financially supporting some giant conglomerate just because they started their monopoly journey a few decades ago 🤷
Everyone including the maker of this video has totally missed the point. 1. A company like a Seiko or Citizen will sell more watches on a wet Monday afternoon than all the microbrands and Ali Express brands do in a year. 2. Who sells most of the watch movements that these companies use? Answer, Seiko and Citizen. Even Sellita and ETA movements are being sold to some Chinese makers. Why is that? It's because they pose no threat to their business. People are buying microbrands and AE brands because they trust the mostly Seiko and Miyota movements inside them. This makes them popular. If the Chinese companies were a threat, they would simply cut off the supply of movements and these companies are dead. Nobody really trusts Chinese movements, that's why they use Japanese movements. If people see a watch with a Ding Fang Dong movement or whatever, they won't buy it. It's another reason they offer, along with the Chinese PT5000, an alternative Swiss high beat movement because most people don't trust the PT5000, even though it's probably fine. To put it simply, Seiko and Citizen want these companies to continue. If they didn't, they wouldn't be selling them their movements. And, if they ever did threaten their core business, they would indeed cut off supply. We should remember, we are watch nerds, most people who want to buy a watch, aren't. They just want to buy a well known brand with a 2 or 3 year warranty (a real warranty, not a Chinese one) and a local service center they can bring it to if it breaks. There is nothing to worry these big brands. Normal people who buy watches don't watch TH-cam watch channels . Ohh, just subscribed by the way, as I am a watch nerd /😊
Not an easy topic - I like traditional working companies. But if there is no point to it besides it will not work anymore. Another point is that falling prices from Rolex and so on will increase the downfall even more. Because there are more and more really rich people who do not want to wear the same watch as normal teacher or doctor.
Seiko still rules the dial-game. Only the dial.
Nowadays I prefer a PT5000 movement over another NH35 if the option is there. I also love how the ST19 dominates the budget mechanical chrono market.
Agreed!
whats that watch at 1:07 - 1:20? its beautiful!
Edit:
Never mind, found it. Its a 'Serica Dive Watch'
Great video. I believe San Martin watches actual value tops out at $200-$250 maximum. Over that, it’s pricing itself out of the market. I can buy Swiss Mathey-Tissot, or Glycine at or below those prices. BTW, I have a San Martin Tiffany dial w/PT 5000. Wile at $151.00 it was a value it had issues.
Great points and I totally agree with you mate.
However, I notice that some of your footage looks very familiar and might have been taken from other TH-camrs’ videos. Next time, it would be good to credit their stuff or put a source at the bottom corner of the screen saying where the footage is from 😊 Just my two cents. But otherwise, good stuff!
EDIT: I just saw that you did that in the description which is totally awesome, but it would still be great to see it at the bottom corner of the screen so we know which footage comes from where, and we can search up the videos directly! Cheers!
Will do from now on! Also a few of the TH-camrs I borrow footage from I’ve asked to directly and got the green light, for Teddy bladassarre for example though I’m struggling to get in contact with him to ask :p
I was just saying this to a friend. With the new machines coming out, even heavy tool work can be programmed. It'll be a hard day when companies in the middle, from Lognines to Omega get crushed with as good, or better, finishing for 1/10th the price. That'll leave only craftsmen at the extreme luxury end who can justify making watches by hand. The thing is, I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing...as much as I love mechanical watches and analog things, the reality is that democratizing things is NOT bad. There are still companies producing equestrian gear...it's just very expensive OR Western...is that really bad? Also, loved seeing the Vero Open Water in your montage as I picked one up last week and am smitten.
Awesome pick up! Also yeah it’s debatable whether it’s bad or not, I love better watches for a lower price but like, it’s making the entry luxury brands with heratige like longines a bit useless
Excellent work my man, so proud of the progress!
Much appreciated my main man!
Can someone tell me what that Hamilton watch is where the crown is at the top????
Really nice video. Thanks for including the model numbers within the vid. I will be getting a San Martin in the future for sure. Cheers!
Hi first.
So I am a proud owner of a Proxima mm 300, a Steeldive mm 300 and an original Seiko Marinemaster mm300.
The first two mentioned are really very nice watches, run reliably, are excellently built and I still enjoy wearing them both.
But if you put the original between the two, you can easyly see where the more than tenfold price probably comes from!😉
Nice watches lad!
Yep totally agree. Finely someone knows what they are talking about lol.
It would be interesting to see the sales numbers. I think that while us watch enthusiasts are buying microbrands and aliexpress watches by the bushel, we're a very niche market and probably the VAST majority of watch sales are to people who have no idea that aliexpress even exists. To this day I have never seen a single microbrand or Aliexpress watch on a wrist other than my own in the 'real' world. I still see seikos and citizens and casios every day. Even the rolex 'homages' I occasionally spot in the wild are made by fashion watch brands or some random department store brand as opposed to the much better offerings available online.
Oh yeah we’re a tiny niche, but a growing one :)
There is a good reason I haven't bought a single Seiko yet despite loving the brand. They are just charging too much for too little watch😅
Exactly, cracking timepieces, if they were only a bit cheaper
I'm skeptical of the idea that Rolex couldn't do what San Matin does, and sell direct to the consumer without an AD to jerk you around. I'm pretty sure they could. They just choose not to.
I really like the lesser known homages by seestern and San martin. The don't read as a homage to most people but there are great quality for the price. I still like Seiko designs and most of the homages I own are Seiko designs
They’re all great quality timepieces
Only reason i havent switched over to microbrands personally is because of proven longevity, i know with all my Casio's, Timex's, tissot's and etc common brands i will not have an issue finding parts,info on older models i own or finding new models of the series's i love. Personally feel those companies will be here for a while given their proven history. Not saying the microbrands will go under but you cant deny it is a much bigger chance of those disappearing than thr name brands. I will admit though...im close to breaking my word with those San Martin's....the full lume models are out of this world nice
Yeah that’s fair enough lad!
It’s simple terms there’s another “crisis” like in the 70’s. The fact that Seiko expects consumers to buy their watches with Hardlex just because SEIKO is emblazoned on the dial is crazy. Micro brands are disrupting the space in a good way, hopefully this time it sticks.
When people are saying MAMACOO is a better option for buying a watch,I very much agree!
I think the worst part of these brands like San Martin is that they get away with being called homage watches. The reviewers generally won’t admit it but we all know they are copies/replicas of the real brands. A homage is something else. And yes even without the same name as the originals it’s still a copy/fake. But if these brands can keep creating their own designs and stop copying then that’s the right direction.
The gmt original design from San martin is pretty sweet, they do have original but a lot of homages too
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I think the original designs are all well and good. But i think TH-camrs calling their other watches "homages" is kind of deceiving. A better word would be copies as if we are honest that’s what they are. If I copy your content exactly to a tee but change the name of my channel. I’m not homaging you, I’d be copying you.
The original brands are lazy and tried for decades to milk the customer with the nonexistant 'value' of heritage. Meanwhile, consistent increases in prices make these watches unaffordable, while also treating customers like some kind of beggar by demanding you buy a cheaper watch first before you become 'worthy' of buying the watch that you really want. Patek is a good example of this. I have no sympathy with these companies, if they go under because they refuse to get off their high horse then good riddance.
@@SwuuschifyMe thats not reason to buy copies. Everyone can do what they want and buy what they please but the fact that these brands are copying designs and not homages should be mentioned in reviews. Saying this is a homage is just another way to make you feel better. I have a copy from steeldive of there seiko Willard but there’s no doubt about it, it’s a copy and I wouldn’t tell anyone otherwise. I wouldn’t go round saying look at this watch, it’s a homage to a seiko. Because it’s not. It’s as good a replica as can be.
Christopher ward is a copy brand but they're getting so much attention and charges prices like originals
A lot of the watches out there are "Swiss made in China" these days, the Swiss brands outsource like mad. This benefits the consumers because the microbrands are made in the same factories that build components for the big names, with comparable quality. At 1/10 the price.
Exactly my point!
Swiss Made watches are made in Switzerland. If it's a watch made in China that states Swiss Made, its a fake. Not one Swiss watch company outsources their watches to China. Some may buy cases or bracelets from them but they are shipped to Switzerland where the Swiss movement is coupled together with the case. That's the extent of Chinese involvement in Swiss made watches.
. I think that you are a little more confident that the "made in Switzerland " brands are being upfront than I am.
I don't trust that they are as Swiss as they claim.
The rules for "Made in Switzerland " are easily manipulated.
What’s the watch at 00:53 ? Beautiful!
Kind of hard for Chinese microbrands to go wrong ripping of the original maker with a total copy only difference is the name. The original brands keep the market floating is the clomage watches ripping of the original design.
Yup! These Chinese brands would be nothing without the original, but you can’t argue the insane value either way!
Some are total copies, some are original designs. What do you have to say about the latter, or are you wilfully blind for the sake of your fragile, ignorant worldview?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub The Chinese brands are adapting fast to the watch culture. I notice that they are becoming quick to respond to customer feedback and suggestions.
They are not quite there yet but competition between the Chinese brands will lead to even better adaptations. They are definately responding to the fact that they are all competing for the same watch fans dollar. Ali or not, the competition is leading to better value and specs.
I am a watch collector and only buy the brand names when they are used affordable and some not so common hommages of the originals (different metals as bronze and titanium). I also buy used Deep Blue's used. New mostly micro brands and Ali Express.
I love micro brands that are carving out their own identity. I bought a Formex Essence for $1,500 as the Omega Aqua Terra at $6,000 was too easy to pass up. Zelos, Christopher Ward, and Jack Mason have made offerings that make buying legacy brands a hard pass. But have yet to see a San Martin or Ali Express watch I'm willing to gamble on yet.
Great video … Chinese watches get the same backlash as quartz watches of the 1970s and 80s. Watch snobs who were not around at the time and do not delve into the history of brands do not realise that many luxury brands such as IWC eventually made there own quartz watches to stay alive in the watch market at the time. My point being that many micro brands, budget brands and I suspect some luxury Swiss brands with heritage source there materials from China. Swiss brands taking advantage of assembling the watch in Switzerland and stamping it Swiss Made. They may even source from the same factories as the likes of San Martin. But these brands will never admit it to the consumer as China has the stigma of counterfeit goods and bad quality therefore buyers tend to stay clear. Look at when Timex re launched the Marlin in 2017… at the time there was no information about which manual wind movement was used. Why ? Because it was Chinese and this would I believe affect the sales. I for one have all categories of watches and likes of Seiko should be ashamed of selling watches to consumers at such high prices with low specs.
I think Steinhart is offering good value if you don't mind a homage. Quality is high and they use Swiss movements. Seiko NH movements are workhorses, but the tactile feel of a Swiss movement is worth the premium, at least to me. I had a San Martin GMT and a Steinhart GMT and the difference in the movement was night and day. The Steinhart was slightly better build-wise, too. It was twice the money, but still less than $600 USD. But you are right to focus on what will happen in the future. The Chinese are closing the gap with the Japanese, esp. at the low end. All the best.
Appreciate the kind comment! And yup I agree, Chinese watches won’t be on the Swiss or German level but definitely will compete with the Japanese soon
Can someone please tell the name/reference of the Gold watch with green dial @0:11 Thanks
I can’t 100% tell but the logo looks like Christopher Ward to me
Anyone know the ref. Number of the first San Martin watch from the video? Tks in advance
I’m a fan of micro brands, they really do give you great designs, it’s like the big boys are on a leash when it comes to design where micro brands aren’t tethered! They offer great value for money and in a lot of cases these days as good if not better! You got Baltic, Farer, CW, Lorier, Nivada Grenchen and Zelos to name a few making big waves. I think it’s great to see. Why spend thousands when you can get something equally good looking for way less!
I agree I love a good microbrand, so cheap yet such good quality!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub true although I wouldn’t say cheap, £600 for some might be very expensive for others, that’s where the san Martin, addesdive, casio G’s and F91W’s of the world fill the whole of good affordable watches. What’s great is there is something for everyone now and you can find quality at all these price points. I’ve put down for a Clemence Munro so looking forward to that when it comes next year!
I am sure you meant "infinitely" better. "infinitesimally"means very small so that would mean a very slight difference.
What is that Red Dial watch at 2:32?
2:27 Who makes this watch? I checked all your previous videos' thumbnails and didn't see it. Have you reviewed it?
Sorry I finnaly found it. anordain model 1 Fume.... Wait that's a 3500.00 watch. I thought this video was discussing Chinese low priced high value watches?
Does anyone know the model of the GMT in the thumbnail ?
The most worrying thing in my opinion is the fact that less and less people wear watches nowadays. Between smartwatches and looking at their phones, people consider traditional watches a unnecessary luxury. I was at a dinner party the other day and among a dozen or more men of all ages there, I was the only one wearing a traditional (budget priced) chronograph, which actually became the center of attention briefly as a curiosity. I am in my 50s and have been wearing watches since my teenage yrs and thinking of getting a smartwatch as my daily, but won't give up on my watch collection anytime soon.
That's because people have been conditioned to be addicted to technology. Folks don't even realize the danger this poses, to have something which emits wireless radition on your body 24/7 and many others. It's about transhumanism and people are so uneducated on the subject.
This is every industry and I’m surprised it took the watch market this long. As for me, I just buy G-Shocks anymore as I have no need for an inefficient automatic.
Fair enough! A tool watch is better quartz anyways
Please don't forget watches like seagull I have two both have the 2428-2 clone the ST2130 high beat movement sapphire domed crystal one is dong feng re issue stunning silver sunburst dial red second hand beautiful, other is a wi yu re issue champagne dial stunning watch both within +3 secs a day I bought beads of rice bracelets both all together around £200 each. My beater watch is a guanqin commander miyota 8215 'hacking' movement also now running around +3 secs a day sapphire crystal very comfortable and £66 delivered, I haven't loads of money to warrant spending on watches but it doesn't mean you can't still have some beautiful dependable watches all aliexpress EOL and seagull official store fantastic, and guanqin store also also lots of others thank you for this review
Even the "photocopier" brand Pagani Design is pulling off some decent quality. Good enough for me to try a second watch during the promotion, a doxa 600t homage from Seestern at $115.
Yeah it’s impressive
No quaility controls, no warranty, this is what you might think when buying in AE (and of course, customs)
Good quality control, fair enough no warranty but in the budget range that’s fine, as for quality, finishing, specs and availability they beat out budget brands in every regard! They’re an awesome option you should open your mind up a bit and check one out! You’d be pleased :D
San Martin appears to have quite decent QC.
@@Harudes Have bought 4 Steeldives for zero QC issues. Have bought 6 San Martins (all hot selling models heavily covered on TH-cam - nothing weird) and have had 3 QC issues. They were a patch of worker arm hairs underneath caseback tucked under end links, a misaligned bezel off by quite a bit, and a misprinted dial which meant the 12 o'clock - pinion - 6 o'clock line was well skewed on the bottom, and I could not rely on that piece for accurate timekeeping.
@@Harudes I talk about AE brands in general and in a vast mayority
The watches in your video are all so gorgeous! Can you provide links to them all? I guess we have the same taste!
Agree 100%! Started with a Casio, Seiko and even a Longines. Now a dozen Pagani Design watches later no reason to go back…the value is mind blowing.
Exactly! They have some insaneeee value for money, specs and qc are so amazing finishing too
I would still pick a San Martin and a Seestern before Pagani.
@@unwokeneuropean3590 yes I have a Seestern too, it was just twice the price.
Shame the quality isn’t there with the Chinese brands. Pagani is crap and the two I’ve had have literally fall apart under normal wear.
My biggest gripe with the big name brands is that they just aren’t listening to what watch wearers really want.. seiko still pushes cheap pin and collar style bracelets that are total junk. Is it too much to ask for screws?! Or how about a screw down crown… there’s just something cheap about push/pull that I can’t get over.
What’s that watch near end of the video at 3:52?
Autodromo Group B
Infinitesimal means very small . Also , it's et cetera , not ec cetera. Great vid !
I don't know much about all the Microbrands, but I am very happy with my two Christopher Wards. I have a C60 Trident bronze Ombre. Water resistant to 600m and COSC certified for $1150. The other is a C65 Trident GMT. I would put either of them up against watches twice their price where you are paying double for a brand. 🙂
Christopher Ward are absolutely amazing, really can’t go wrong at all!
I've got a Thorn BB58 (Sapphire, NH35, great lume, around £110 UKP) and a Christopher Ward Trident (Sapphire, SW200, really great lume, £660 UKP) and I wear the Thorn a lot more. Looking at aa San Martin "Pelagos" next, also a great spec and titanium to boot. Brand have a certain amount of value, but great looks and quality that matches brands that are 5 or 6 times the price is impossible to ignore.
Not surprising, they’re incredible quality!
what is the watch at :52 with square dial and orange hands?
Brew retro dial watch. Always sold out on their site 😮💨
I agree in principal, but i have a vintage Submariner from my Dad properly serviced and runs perfectly it's over 30 years, so let's see if these watches will actually last since they are designed as tools in first place. Time will tell 🤔
Well they’re insane for the budget category but as for luxury watches it’s a different story, they aren’t near the same quality or reliability
@WatchConnoisseurClub And I do actually use mine nearly daily and on some dives, not tucked away in a safe 😊. But I'm not really a watch collector just like to view videos about different industries, as long as one enjoys their watch and not hiding it away 😀
I ordered my first micro brand from Ali. I had Seiko SKX007, now I have a couple of G-Shocks and one vintage Raketa GMT USSR. And I've never had saphire crystal. Let's see how it would turn out, maybe I woulnd't be able to buy any other brand other than microbrands )
Firstly , I'm not a watch collector but I do like a nice looking one and feel naked without a watch. Not into expensive and big brands , having two requirements that are
a watch for leisure time and one for work . Value wise for the last few years I've been using Casio MRW-200H's , rugged , reliable ( I'm in the building trade ) for work
and never been let down. Leisure wise , a basic date style Sekonda ( about £20 a shot ) . I broke one but still have two fully working. Got the urge lately and have just bought
a Sekonda divers style whilst at half price then ordered a Pagani Design in Ice Blue whilst on offer at Ali Express ( about £30 inc tax ). Hope I don't get the bug , can only wear one at
a time. Lol.
I found the aliexpress 11/11 sale to be overhyped for the deals touted. And the hassle figuring out and having noodle around on their site frustrating. There is also the risk of being duped and genuinely needing customer service is a real risk to boot.
I recently ‘returned’ a high end San Martin watch to China. Fifty-five shipping dollars lighter and nearly two months later I finally received my repaired watch. I followed their directions to the tee, which were weird for an American consumer.
Hit or miss, certainly, dealing with business people with no Christian ethos.
Customer support may not be great, but general quality and specs for the price is unheard of up to now
They 100% need to work on their support. But that's why they are so cheap - as there almost is none.
many of these are available on Amazon with the easy Amazon return policy....soooo...???
@@ssnerd583no they aren’t. Ali express and Amazon have almost zero overlap in watch selection, lol.
I think it's definitely a good sign and a good thing because "one does not simply own one watch only". Even if someone gets a San Martin to get into watches, they'll eventually get curious and buy a piece from a brand with heritage etc. Hell, that's how I got into watches! I started with a MVMT because I wanted an office watch (with a 45mm dial lol). And then I started reading and digging, got my first Timex, then a Gshock, then a first Swiss one, then another, a Hamilton etc. I still love microbrands because they challenge the big guys and make them think instead of just releasing more and more mediocre stuff.
I prefer microbrands in the lower price ranges even! Luxury price points no but for the more budget end they’re the best value for money
There's more joy in getting a watch and not being bankrupt :) This week I got an Addiesdive but also a Geckota which was 10 times more expensive lol
healthy competition between all brands and it is good for open market. i'm not so keen on heritage or history as long it is value for money or bang for buck.
Yup, I personally would get a bunch of microbrand and aliexpress for high specs finishing and qc
@@WatchConnoisseurClub couldn't agree more sir. 👍
The difference is the Chinese watches are disposable, consumable products. Because nobody in their right mind will spend $500 to service a $200 watch when it craps out in a few years.
If you’re buying a traditional luxury brand like Omega, Grand Seiko, Rolex, Tudor, etc you have a product worth fixing and maintaining that will last a lifetime.
I’ll take 2-3 of the best watches in my collection over 20 really decent watches any day. This is a product you’re wearing on your body 24/7 and might be the only unique jewelry or daily carry tool people notice you by. No story behind it. No heritage. Just a no-name parts bin watch assembled in a sweat shop. Honestly a Casio F-91W has more class than an aliexpress homage
As said the homages aren’t desirable but the original designs (which do exist you just have to look xD) are pretty amazing
In terms of finishing and everything they dominate the budget market, and as I said on the “luxury” market at higher prices microbrands and such start to lose
Either way they beat out any seiko or tissot or the like in the price range, and as for servicing you don’t even need to service an nh35 for that much, get yourself a case back remover, and buy a brand new nh35 for $25 and replace it yourself! Only higher end luxury movements are worth a service anyways in my opinion
And I’m terms of value, yeah microbrands lose it right away, but again I’ll say they’re still amazing for the price
Be safe when wearing your expensive watch. You are a target in most cities around the world. Sad fact. Homage watches are a good alternative when out and about.
@@a0r0a7 yeah it’s sad, lived in London for 17 years before moving to the coast and man it’s so much safer and nicer, can actually wear a nice watch lol
@@WatchConnoisseurClubit is definitely. There are plenty of safe places for sure. I even feel unsure sometimes wearing homage watches. They look so much like the real deal from just a few feet. At least they are getting away with little value if they do.
I can’t argue with anything you said, you were spot on.
Always a good video , going direct to the point 😊 love that Rudi !
Appreciate the support as always my man!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub 🤗🤗🤗💐
I am a watch collector for 40 years. I am done with expensive brands such as rolex cartier etc etc. I am now going for the Aliexpress Microbrand Watches. for a 10th or even a 100th of the price you get a lot of watch with the best specs. my latest Microbrand Watch is a San Martin Lapiz lazul dia. for $300 I get the entire luxury package of a 1500 luxury watch brand.
Agreed
Boldr Venture Automatic in carbon Black. My Favourite watch ever
Fantastic video. Thank you. 🙏 And I agree. The Chinese microbrands are ridiculously good and affordable.
cant find half of these brands on ali u mentioned are they geo locked to some regions or what
San Martin can be seen as a Microbrand already, I think.. And since Aquatico started selling on Ali too I don’t think that microbrands and aliexpress watches are mutually exclusive terms anymore.
High average quality, low average QC, non existent customer service. You get what you pay for.
It's really just the sapphire crystal that gets people excited.
Theyre a good option and id reccomend everyone to have one, but no more than one really, i think theyre the perfect budget daily beaters
low average QC? I've bought plenty of watches off AliExpress and the QC has been better most other Seikos I own
I give out the Pagani Paul Newman as a joke gift "see I got you a Rolex and this is how you treat me". But a year later they're all still wearing it out in public and getting compliments. The only missing piece on Ali watches is that the reflective crystals totally betray all the hardwork done on the cases, dials, bracelets and sourcing Seiko movements. That reflection on the crystal just ruins it. From across the room you see that reflection and know it's an Chinese homage.
Fair point, if it catches the wrong lighting yup
Thank you dear for taking us along. Can't wait what the nkuwan queen picked up at Fendi
What a nkuwan
I got into watches. bought some mid tier brands, glycine, Seiko, Tissot, Citizen, then jumped to AE for some great high quality Paganis, Planet Ocean Homages, Tudor Homages and GMTs for under $100. So yea, AE is upping their game, faster shipping, better after sales and incredible qualiity, better specs. To this day I'm flummoxed that Seiko cant put a saphire glass on a $450 watch. AE has set the baseline and so have other Microbrands.
Two san Martin and one Cronos, very good watches.
Aliexpress watches are varied in quality. Pagani, Lige, Steeldive, Addiesdive, Seagull, Ailang , North Edge, Courgeut,Spech n Sonne are some of the best valued high quality mechanical n quartz watches
Excellent video *subscribed
Much appreciated!
Excellent video! Spot on a very accurate!
Much appreciated!
Which is the best place to buy San martin watches? So many websites its confusing
Aliexpress official store is best, search up San Martin in aliexpress and at the top press official store :)
Hi, can anyone tell me what the watch at 54 seconds into the video is please?
It's a Brew Watch Co Metric Retro Dial, lovely watch, apprx $450 or €420
San martin, proxima and other non AliExpress micro brands are telling us how these big swiss name brands loot us when the thing is actually 1/5 to 1/20 of the asking price.