A note on the SAG-AFTRA comment at the beginning: This isn't an issue with Sony or Bungie. Voice actors on strike in general are just not working on games regardless of the studio. Idk the ins and outs of Sony or Bungie but for example, Hoyoverse has amazing voice actor protections, yet the EN VA's are missing in content due to the strikes. Has nothing to do with Hoyo themselves, it's just the voice actors not working until the entire industry comes to a conclusion on banning AI and providing AI voice protections.
Yeah, its actually pretty funny that the people Byf is telling to "knock it off" is the VA's themselves lmao. He should definitely do a little research into the topic before making such an aggressive statement. SAG-AFTRA is legitimately clueless for expecting an entire industry to come together to put a hard ban on something that isn't even close to being fully realised. Its not just currently operating games that are getting screwed over by this, for example, Hideo Kojima's 2 new games are missing tons of VA work because SAG-AFTRA is basically forcing VA's to strike over something that is not going to change anytime soon.
It's honestly disingenuous for him too even say that without clearly knowing what's going on in the world. I get he's on this "blame everything on the suits" vibe but when your gonna make comments like that at least do some basic research as too why it could be happening it makes you look like a fool. Which is that when a union like SAG-AFTRA strikes they have too hit everybody and not choose specific studios too not work with otherwise it defeats the whole purpose of a strike which is too say "We're not doing anymore work for anybody until EVERYONE gives us what we want.". It's basic knowledge of how unions work and for him too still say that shit just makes him look like the idiot.
@HEAVYDUTY2596 well when 99% of the problems that stem from this company are from the suits it's not too far put of the realm of possibility that it is their fault for this
Byf, in regards to the thing in the beginning I will have to heavily disagree with you. Thats not some voice acting failure, that is a strike raising awareness for VA rights, similar to what actors and screen writers had. The person that will be cut out is most likely Sloane, voiced by Cissy Jones who is very active in the protests. Trying to spin that as a failure on organization is being disingenuous. Bungie doesnt need to be doing anything wrong here, its just as a leader of the strike she might be doing a blanket "no voice roles"
@@84m30 he has no fucking idea of whats going on, it literally SAYS why they dont have it in the fucking TWAB, he needs to stay in his lane and stay with lore.
In a roundabout way byf is right, suits are getting in the way. Except now it's about contracts and protections and people striking, so on the wide lense he's right, but he missed the minutiae.
I think the qualm is moreso that Bungie (or more likely Sony) is not willing to negotiate union-approved interim contracts with the striking actors. Other game studios have been able to negotiate contracts that do not violate the strike, but iirc Sony is not coming to the table atm and several other Sony games have been delayed as a result.
@@TyingSaturn even when they sign the protections the voice actors dont come back. its a stike its career suicide if you take it and run. imagine your striking at your work and 40 of you guys are striking and 2 people get a promo. wouldn't it be messed up if they just stopped striking with you, your co-workers would hate you
The echo seemingly going into oryx’s chest cavity had me fully shook. The implications are pretty terrifying?? Could this not be even worse than the idea of a ghost rezzing him in Ghosts of the Deep. He’d have access both light and darkness in this case. I think? 😬
One of the very few enemies I wouldn’t mind being brought back. I love Rhulk but they made it very clear he’s completely gone and I dont want the story to completely ignore previous deaths like that
there's a chance if he is resurrected by the echo he could be the first prismatic lucent hive, which would also go full circle to that one weird official 2022 artwork of Oryx as bright pink/white in the raid boss room for the raid reprisal. i think its much more likely though oryx remains loyal to the sword logic and rejects a full resurrection to help shape the "guardian knife" which probably leads us to frontiers
But wouldn’t he be in contradiction with himself since he’s sees the idea of necromancy or revival heretical? Isn’t that why he hates us so much because we’re defying that which is the sword logic
Missing voice lines due to the SAG-AFTRA strikes isn't to do with Bungie FYI. It's happening to most of the industry, even companies that offer generous compensation for VA. Might want to amend that/look into it further before commenting on similar situations you don't have knowledge of in the future
why are people so butthurt he isnt 100% up to date? any normal person that read the twab would complain to the company presenting said info... at the end of the day his point stands, whatever big suit at whatever company is holding up negotiations is ruining games by letting this go on still and not just making amends/coming to an agreement with voice actors. Not saying letting him know whats going on is a bad comment but to say he shouldn't have commented on it not knowing everything is crazy as stated in the first line, theres going to be silent parts in game because of this. its anoyying and just knowing its due to the negotiations and not every detail is more than enough to put at the front that its not liked.
@@gh3547 he does this a lot. He seems to have this entitled know it all perspective about anything to do with the US or anything even sort of political despite being on the other side of the planet. Not that he can’t have an opinion, but the superioristic tone he always seems to take as if he intimately know a topic or situation is very grating off putting.
@ he shouldn’t be commenting in the way he did, heatedly scolding bungie/sony, without knowing what was going on. Irresponsible behavior considering his position in the community. Takes 5 seconds to look it up
@@gh3547 did you listen to what he said? he said IDK if its bungie or sony or someone else but WHOEVER is in charge with the negotiations, jesus hes speaking as a whole to the industry not just bungie/sony . Clearly stated things should be better for VA's, what kind of weird ahh high ground are you guys on?
Something that occurs to me with eris running away from that big barrage of swords: that could very well be Xivu making her first major appearance. She's the hive god of war, so being even more swordy than the other gods could make sense
I think the voice acting is likely due to strikes. Bungie hiring people would perhaps involve scabbing and crossing picket lines, which would rather be avoided tbh.
the strike is due to companies not agreeing to a deal with the workers, bungie/sony could get people if they agreed to terms, like how a24 did during the actors/writers strike a while back
@@emerald6597 unless I missed something and they're being striked specifically Bungie and Sony have no say in the talks. SAG strikes affect your ability to work for companies outside of those the strike is targeting
What @bradleypok27 said - it's mainly related to SAG and a lot of concerns around acting in videogames as a whole rn. Besides, as the parent company, it would be with Sony - I'm pretty sure they've had a few delays due to the strikes recently too if I'm not mistaken.
@@emerald6597 if a few companies decide not to agree the whole industry suffers. bungie loves their VAs so you know damn well its not them. Activison for example is the main culprit for holding the industry hostage. they are currently using an extreme amount of AI right now and not signing the protections. This causes all these other companies to suffer. Just because one person got a promo doesn't mean you stop striking as an example. if you want to direct your hate throw hands with activation
I agree, the echo shot straight out of the traveler to the dreadnought and as it settles into the place where the heart of darkness was you see oryx's throne world repaired. I believe the witness pulled oryx's body into the Titan anomoly to claim his memories using darkness like it does with every powerful species. Thats why Chelchis and the Qugu commander were stored within and turned into echos after mixing with the light. Oryx wasn't a disciple of the witness, he was another of the winnowers blades on the same level as the witness. It would have been stupid not to claim Oryx's memories from his body.
Btw Byf, the last part where Oryx is swinging the sword down is part of the same Cutscene with the krill versions of them fighting. If you look close you can see it's them.
"Reach into the unknown... and prepare for it to reach back." This genuinely sounds like we're gonna meet the Winnower. With the Artifact being a Tablet of Ruin, I think it's totally possible.
I doubt we are going to meet the Winnower, maybe just get a hint as to where they are, maybe a clue leading us outside the solar system? But if we do meet the Winnower, I hope it will be fucking sick
If the Winnower exists, then what of the Gardner? Does she exist in the Pale Heart but can’t/chooses not to speak to us? Because her way is to give people second chances to define their destiny? To spread complexity? If we are to meet the Winnower, surely we must meet his/its sibling, the Gardner (I imagine the two as siblings, sister and brother at a chess board, where Gods, monsters, and Guardians are the pieces).
@@garrettviewegh9028The Gardner does exist; you cannot have one without the other. The Traveler, on the other hand, is a living being; it has no clue what it is or where it came from. All we can assume is that the Traveler is the Gardner's “first knife,” similar to how the Witness was the Winnower's “first knife” that went rogue. The Gardner and Winnower aren’t siblings; if anything, they are our parental figures. The Gardner is our “Mother,” while The Winnower is our “Father.” Lore tabs show Guardians meeting the Gardner and her stating “You are so much your father. So destructive.” I believe this phrase in particular is from Saint-14 himself meeting her.
@ I have seen that lore tab. When Byf went over it. It’s fun to speculate though, about the greater deities of the Destiny universe. There’s still so much we don’t know about the Gardner and Winnower. It has me wondering if we will meet them somehow, someway. Bungie seemingly has concept art depicting the two. Some theorize, that Guardians are the Gardner’s answer: the bomb Logic’s complexity of light and dark, proving itself over the simplicity of the Sword. But if the Traveler/Light is separate to the Gardner, and the Veil/Darkness is separate to the Winnower. Than it don’t be the Traveler or Veil we need to commune with. We may just go out and find the two gods. Or they may find us. Though it feels like they are more observers. But something tells me, they will become more involved. No longer just sitting on either side of the chess board.
Hey Byf - thanks for 10+ years of joy. Maybe it's just seeing Myelin's vid today, but I wanted to extra extend my gratitude on reflecting how much I love hearing about the lore from you guys.
The middle one is Sathona (She's always shone with the veil instead of a cape). I can definitely see Savathun playing the mediator role, but am not sure what would make Oryx and Xivu want to fight each other but not Savathun.
Knowing that it is the “Echo of Navigation,” I think that it embodies Oryx in a way similar to the other two echos, that it sought out the Dreadnaught rather than just crashing into it by chance, and that the echo is projecting Oryx out around itself instead of him being truly “revived”
12:15 - I believe that in the middle of the three Hive siblings is the scene we saw with the siblings in their Krill forms. You can kinda make out one of the siblings reaching out to both of them like they showed in that close up scene at 9:18
12:30 i think the small figures in the center are the statues of the Hive siblings as Krill we saw earlier in the trailer. Maybe this is from a cutscene about the Hive trio and their past.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Drifter being revived. I could be wrong but I think it's mentioned that the Drifter hasn't been revived in centuries. Also we know his Ghost is modified. I'm wondering if we will actually see what his Ghost looks like and if so, how crazy looking will it be?
Lore, and Dridter described his Ghost as: “kitbashed”. An amalgamation of other dead ghosts, rearranged and put into his Ghost, to nake it work/behave differently. Probably a way of “modifying” it. After defacing the Ghost, it could never talk again. It even scared the shit out of Immaru.
Not only did the drifter get revived, but it looks like he’s in the area where we talk to the Emissary of the Nine. Maybe we’ll see more of the nine this episode.
8:24 love how the 2 weapons they use are distant relations and trust which both are more or less representative of their relationship with distance from one another as well as trust being key parts.
Wait that actually makes a ton of sense! Especially since it's in the scene where the two of them are fighting back-to-back with one another. Eris especially, since Trust is probably something that doesn't come easily to her after being betrayed like she was by Toland
Imagine this was going to be a smaller-size explosion. Like Shadowkeep, a D1 location updated for story reasons and bringing us into a new chapter. It would have been so hype. But alas, this is a season (I mean episode), so it’s going to be on the chopping block for the very beginning and the story would be dragged out and rather safe.
Hey Byf, I did a couple minutes of research on the SAG-AFTRA strike: This strike has been ongoing since July 2024, and it's striking basically the whole video game industry (with some exceptions) for AI voice protections. Games in production prior to September 2023 (including live service games) are exempted from the strike, due to contracts inherited by SAG-AFTRA in the union merger. The union is not mandating that their members strike these "grandfathered" games, but it is asking them to do so and stand in solidarity with their peers if they wish to. So, it would seem that Destiny 2 is not explicitly struck. Notably, the VAs for Eris and Drifter are members of SAG-AFTRA and both seem to have recorded new dialogue for Heresy. (Though, I admit, they could have done this work prior to last July, depending on Bungie's dev cycle.) If we have a character without dialogue, I'd hazard a guess that it's either a previously unvoiced character (thus perhaps not part of a prior contract, which could make it struck work), or it's because the VA of an existing character has chosen to strike Destiny 2. If that's the case ... hell yeah, power to the working class! Is it a bummer to have missing dialogue in game? Sure, but it is infinitely better than the two alternatives: 1. Delay Heresy indefinitely 2. Bungie hires a scab
At the 12 minute mark, that looks like its a higher prospective from the same cutscene where the trio, maybe meant to show their growth but also how the siblings never really changed since they were on Fundament.
The last scene where Oryx slashes the thing in the middle seems to be part of the cinematic where the three pre-worm sisters are fighting, likely it's all part of the cinematic as a representation of their later forms taking over the former beings they were
I really hope Oryx isnt back as an individual but more of a paracausal force of will hosting some form of "trial" to see who is worthy of his might (the echo and dreadnaught)
I was talking to some of my buddies about this, and we think that it might be something to do with the fact that Oryx possibly sees us as the "rightful" claimants to his power/legacy, having beaten both him and the witness's forces of the Dread, whereas this new Subjugator is just an usurper. Especially since the reference to us as "Guardian-Knife" seems to, at least contextually, be more of an honorific than a casual remark.
At 12:20, to me the smaller figures look like the Krill version of the Hive god trio shown earlier. Going back in the trailer, it seems that the 3 are surrounded by broken pillars which are similar to the ones big Oryx, Xivu, and Savathun are staring at before Oryx swipes a sword at them. Symbolically, killing their younger, weaker selves with their God forms
I think think this episode is the beginning of us to start really hearing about the Winnower beyond gear lore. I think the tentacles are it's version of the spores from the darkness for the witness.
If you compare that last moment, where the King strikes, to the one where the Osmium Three were Krill, I think it's part of that same sequence - showing how they've grown different, practically, literally, killing what they believed to be their weaknesses as a result.
I think the scene where Oryx, Savathun and Xivu are standing over the rubble is of the scene of their younger selves. If you look closely at the scene you can see the small statues are in the same position as the statues of their younger selves when they are fighting. As for why the statues show them fighting i am not really sure about it, but giving how siblings can be maybe it could've been a squabble over something that we are of course unaware of.
Correction - that final scene of Oryx alongside Savathun and Xivu Arath and slamming his sword down on the figures is just the still image we saw earlier of the three Krill sisters fighting. If you look closely they're not moving and the positions are the same, just from the back angle.
12:15 I think the figure(s) in the middle of the three siblings are their younger selves in the previous scene where they were having a fight and one of them subdues the fighting. maybe symbolizing "the past is the past" or "kill the past for the greater future" thing?
12:19 could very well be the krill versions of them. The figures present look to be in similar position to the one where they fought. The pillars were also present there. So this is likely a later point in that same cutscene.
Kinda makes you wonder if because the light keeps the guardians who serve it their souls and they are in a way recorded into the traveller, that the same can be said about the darkness as well. As oryx communicated to the winower supposedly from the deep, the winower might also keep its champion's in its own world; and that this new echo has a way to pull the dead back into the living world to the one who holds it. Just a thought
HELLO BYF our lore daddy 😁 enjoyed playing onslaught salvation with you the other day you blessed me with good luck and a great lore chat 🙌🏻 no matter what state destiny is in know that we appreciate you and your lore vids
The scene at the end, with all 3 Hive gods, I think that's the 3 young sisters in the middle just before Oryx slams his sword down. if you look closely, one of the figures has it's hand around another's throat, & it looks like their hand is outstretched towards another. Maybe the 2 cutscenes link up, one after the other, but for the trailer, it was split into fragments
A note to notice is; in the final scene showcasing the three hive gods the figures oryx cuts down. Appears to be the three younger versions of the hive gods!
The eyes could be in reference to Savathǔn eyes from season of arrivals the triumph you can refer this to is “Hive-God Optometrist Find and destroy all of Savathûn's Eyes.”
@MyNameIsByf Crazy theory: The echo doesn't land on dreadnaught or on Titan, but rather gets grabbed by Savathun, who uses it to revive Oryx. Her previous attempt at that failed, and she has put crazy amounts of power in others before, suggesting that she is hoping to use Oryx as a pawn instead of keeping the echo for herself. It could explain the eyes as she has used those in the past too, during the season of arrivals when we received Ruinous Effigy and had to shoot 50 of them around the moon of Titan. On top of that, this would lead to an interesting dynamic amongst the Hive gods. One of darkness, one of light, and one of . With the echo being an entrapped entity from the past that influences the wielder of the echo, it could be a member of the Aminite, but I honestly hope it is Taox, which would mean that it's not the hive gods but an old adversary of theirs that is the heresy. This could lead to plot points for the Hive and even bring in the Psions in on the narrative in ways that could be really good or really weird for Destiny. It could even introduce a mystery of how she died or fell victim to the Witness without the Hive ever finding out. Thoughts?
12:21 is that not just the shot we saw earlier of the krill versions of the siblings? probably just a cutscene of them abandoning their humanity or krill-manity or whatever and committing to hive gods life
I have a sneaking suspicion that Eris gonna get snatched in order to have her prepped as a vessel so that Oryx can be reborn. Makes sense with Drifter wigging out.
The end scene of the tree surrounding that podium with people on it has the three sisters on it it probably is part of one whole echo scene like the Riis one we got this past season. Oryx cuts through the three sisters fighting
sag aftra strike has been due to AI voice in games, and the actors wanting protections against Ai voicing in video games, this isnt particularly an issue with Bungie/Sony, but the broader video gme industry as a whole.
I assume most of the season will be about The Siblings coming to reconcile with the error in the methods of the sword. All being defeated at the hands of the light. Savathun more than willing to lose the path in favor of strength. Oryx knowing his defeat at the hands of the light. And the master in which he served. And Xivu seeing the heresy in her siblings and coming to terms. Perhaps? Perhaps not? We will see
The figures at the center of the screen @12:32 seem to be the 3 sisters viewed previously around 9:17 and are likely apart of the same cut scene. This could resemble Oryx re-establishing his dominance over his siblings or what not. While We the guardian might be a worthy successor to Oryx, I doubt he thinks his sisters are.
I'd like to note that the hibe got holding the othet two by the neck in that cutscene seems to be Sathona, she has the veil hanging from her head, just like she did in the Witch Queen cutscene. As another note about Savathûn, we still don't know her goal. We figured out she took the light and we figured out she wanted to defeat the Witness, we also know she seemingly wants control of both light and dark, but we still have no idea what her endgame is. Honestly, I think it may be for all three siblings to be reunited and rein over the universe, it would certainly explain her fascination with ressurrection, she went to great lengths to learn necromancy from Nokris, but has yet to use it, she risked everything to get a ghost, and she even tried studying the Scorn for how they ressurrected. It's possible she wants to be the ultimate heretic and the master of death, perhaps she wants to kill and then raise her Siblings so they can be united once more, with the Echo, necromancy, and a Ghost, she could have enough mastery over light and dark to ressurect Oryx. We also mustn't forget that if she'd succeced in Witch Queen, then she alone would have had access to both the Traveller and the Veil.
1:23 I don't really know what the whole problem is about or if they already told but if they haven't it's probably not bcs of them not paying their voice actors In hoyoverse the community has got the same worry about english voice acting bcs in genshin most voices are muted and in star rail a lot of voices are following that path (haven't heard anything from zzz) and in the end it wasn't about the money, the company pays a studio to do the respecting dub and this studio can or can not be part of sag-aftra. With all this strike thing sag-aftra voice actors are not meant to work if the studio isn't part of the union either until it joins or they get replaced with someone not in the union Again, i'm not aware about what exactly is the issue with bungie but if they haven't said anything conclusive is most likely the dubbing studio not being part of sag aftra, not them directly not paying their voice actors
I think that ECHO is merging the Dreadnaught (Akka) with the remaining spirit of Oryx. After all, the Dreadnaught is his throne world that took physical form in the universe through "inversion" and the use of Akka as a base. Just as the Traveler is the other iterations of ECHO, he is transforming the intangible into the tangible.
Didn't those tentacles pop up in Hiraks' boss fight in Forsaken in the Ascendant Plane part of the fight? Also, that final sword strike scene looks like it's Oryx attacking that area with the siblings younger forms.
When the Episode names were announced, and we got more info on Revenant and the first look at Heresy, I immediately thought "half-decayed dreadnought, a pantheon shake up, the idea of heresy...what if he's back?" While I LOVED TFS, the episodes did nothing for me. That was my last hope. And the King returns, in some way, and Im ready to face my personal favorite enemy once again!
Just incase it wasn’t noticed I did see what looked to be a takeny texture on the legs of the subjugator so maybe when the attack cutscene happens it will have tried to learn taking but failed I don’t know it’s just something I noticed
A note on the SAG-AFTRA comment at the beginning: This isn't an issue with Sony or Bungie. Voice actors on strike in general are just not working on games regardless of the studio. Idk the ins and outs of Sony or Bungie but for example, Hoyoverse has amazing voice actor protections, yet the EN VA's are missing in content due to the strikes. Has nothing to do with Hoyo themselves, it's just the voice actors not working until the entire industry comes to a conclusion on banning AI and providing AI voice protections.
Yeah, its actually pretty funny that the people Byf is telling to "knock it off" is the VA's themselves lmao. He should definitely do a little research into the topic before making such an aggressive statement. SAG-AFTRA is legitimately clueless for expecting an entire industry to come together to put a hard ban on something that isn't even close to being fully realised. Its not just currently operating games that are getting screwed over by this, for example, Hideo Kojima's 2 new games are missing tons of VA work because SAG-AFTRA is basically forcing VA's to strike over something that is not going to change anytime soon.
It's honestly disingenuous for him too even say that without clearly knowing what's going on in the world. I get he's on this "blame everything on the suits" vibe but when your gonna make comments like that at least do some basic research as too why it could be happening it makes you look like a fool. Which is that when a union like SAG-AFTRA strikes they have too hit everybody and not choose specific studios too not work with otherwise it defeats the whole purpose of a strike which is too say "We're not doing anymore work for anybody until EVERYONE gives us what we want.". It's basic knowledge of how unions work and for him too still say that shit just makes him look like the idiot.
@@HEAVYDUTY2596 That still kinda makes it on the suits tho for not providing what they want
@HEAVYDUTY2596 well when 99% of the problems that stem from this company are from the suits it's not too far put of the realm of possibility that it is their fault for this
Thank you.
Byf, in regards to the thing in the beginning I will have to heavily disagree with you. Thats not some voice acting failure, that is a strike raising awareness for VA rights, similar to what actors and screen writers had. The person that will be cut out is most likely Sloane, voiced by Cissy Jones who is very active in the protests. Trying to spin that as a failure on organization is being disingenuous. Bungie doesnt need to be doing anything wrong here, its just as a leader of the strike she might be doing a blanket "no voice roles"
He worded it strangely, but I think he supports the VAs
He’s very often vocally angry and wrong about anything remotely political in the states. It’s getting annoying.
You did not listen to him carefully, He was showing his support for the VAs
@@84m30 he has no fucking idea of whats going on, it literally SAYS why they dont have it in the fucking TWAB, he needs to stay in his lane and stay with lore.
In a roundabout way byf is right, suits are getting in the way. Except now it's about contracts and protections and people striking, so on the wide lense he's right, but he missed the minutiae.
SAG-AFTRA is on strike right now, meaning Sony and/or Bungie are not the cause of the lack of VAs. This is an industry wide issue.
I think the qualm is moreso that Bungie (or more likely Sony) is not willing to negotiate union-approved interim contracts with the striking actors. Other game studios have been able to negotiate contracts that do not violate the strike, but iirc Sony is not coming to the table atm and several other Sony games have been delayed as a result.
@@TyingSaturn even when they sign the protections the voice actors dont come back. its a stike its career suicide if you take it and run. imagine your striking at your work and 40 of you guys are striking and 2 people get a promo. wouldn't it be messed up if they just stopped striking with you, your co-workers would hate you
@@Vextral4653 interim agreements can be approved by the union, the union explicitly states this.
@@Vextral4653 yeah refusing to re cast the actors is supporting them. His opening comment has kinda soured my desire to watch the video now.
I better not die brotha, and moondust sure as hell better not die either!
Are you still on rough terms with your ghost? They might revive you without some, important bits, depending on that
Hi Drifter
have Snickers drifter, youre not you, when your hungry
If you or Eris dies, we riot
The echo seemingly going into oryx’s chest cavity had me fully shook. The implications are pretty terrifying?? Could this not be even worse than the idea of a ghost rezzing him in Ghosts of the Deep. He’d have access both light and darkness in this case. I think? 😬
One of the very few enemies I wouldn’t mind being brought back. I love Rhulk but they made it very clear he’s completely gone and I dont want the story to completely ignore previous deaths like that
there's a chance if he is resurrected by the echo he could be the first prismatic lucent hive, which would also go full circle to that one weird official 2022 artwork of Oryx as bright pink/white in the raid boss room for the raid reprisal. i think its much more likely though oryx remains loyal to the sword logic and rejects a full resurrection to help shape the "guardian knife" which probably leads us to frontiers
But wouldn’t he be in contradiction with himself since he’s sees the idea of necromancy or revival heretical? Isn’t that why he hates us so much because we’re defying that which is the sword logic
@@RandomTh1n9 Idk. Ask the episode that has "Heresy" as name.
Prismatic Oryx sounds like a terrifying threat
Missing voice lines due to the SAG-AFTRA strikes isn't to do with Bungie FYI. It's happening to most of the industry, even companies that offer generous compensation for VA. Might want to amend that/look into it further before commenting on similar situations you don't have knowledge of in the future
why are people so butthurt he isnt 100% up to date? any normal person that read the twab would complain to the company presenting said info... at the end of the day his point stands, whatever big suit at whatever company is holding up negotiations is ruining games by letting this go on still and not just making amends/coming to an agreement with voice actors.
Not saying letting him know whats going on is a bad comment but to say he shouldn't have commented on it not knowing everything is crazy as stated in the first line, theres going to be silent parts in game because of this. its anoyying and just knowing its due to the negotiations and not every detail is more than enough to put at the front that its not liked.
@@gh3547 he does this a lot. He seems to have this entitled know it all perspective about anything to do with the US or anything even sort of political despite being on the other side of the planet. Not that he can’t have an opinion, but the superioristic tone he always seems to take as if he intimately know a topic or situation is very grating off putting.
@ he shouldn’t be commenting in the way he did, heatedly scolding bungie/sony, without knowing what was going on. Irresponsible behavior considering his position in the community. Takes 5 seconds to look it up
@ yeah, I’ve noticed this over time
@@gh3547 did you listen to what he said? he said IDK if its bungie or sony or someone else but WHOEVER is in charge with the negotiations, jesus hes speaking as a whole to the industry not just bungie/sony .
Clearly stated things should be better for VA's, what kind of weird ahh high ground are you guys on?
Something that occurs to me with eris running away from that big barrage of swords: that could very well be Xivu making her first major appearance. She's the hive god of war, so being even more swordy than the other gods could make sense
That's our guardian, not Eris
That aint Eris
Yeah, that's a guardian for sure. The scene of the 3 sisters after that is interesting though
I think the voice acting is likely due to strikes. Bungie hiring people would perhaps involve scabbing and crossing picket lines, which would rather be avoided tbh.
the strike is due to companies not agreeing to a deal with the workers, bungie/sony could get people if they agreed to terms, like how a24 did during the actors/writers strike a while back
@@emerald6597 unless I missed something and they're being striked specifically Bungie and Sony have no say in the talks. SAG strikes affect your ability to work for companies outside of those the strike is targeting
What @bradleypok27 said - it's mainly related to SAG and a lot of concerns around acting in videogames as a whole rn. Besides, as the parent company, it would be with Sony - I'm pretty sure they've had a few delays due to the strikes recently too if I'm not mistaken.
@@emerald6597 if a few companies decide not to agree the whole industry suffers. bungie loves their VAs so you know damn well its not them. Activison for example is the main culprit for holding the industry hostage. they are currently using an extreme amount of AI right now and not signing the protections. This causes all these other companies to suffer. Just because one person got a promo doesn't mean you stop striking as an example. if you want to direct your hate throw hands with activation
The final shoot of the trailer with the three major hive gods is them standing above their previous selfs.
I was wondering how he didn't realize this lol, I was starting to second guess myself
That Oryx gets the echo wasn't what I took away from that part of the trailer- I thought it was saying that Oryx is the echo.
Yeah, I assumed he is the Echo of Navigation
I agree, the echo shot straight out of the traveler to the dreadnought and as it settles into the place where the heart of darkness was you see oryx's throne world repaired. I believe the witness pulled oryx's body into the Titan anomoly to claim his memories using darkness like it does with every powerful species. Thats why Chelchis and the Qugu commander were stored within and turned into echos after mixing with the light. Oryx wasn't a disciple of the witness, he was another of the winnowers blades on the same level as the witness. It would have been stupid not to claim Oryx's memories from his body.
Btw Byf, the last part where Oryx is swinging the sword down is part of the same Cutscene with the krill versions of them fighting. If you look close you can see it's them.
"Reach into the unknown... and prepare for it to reach back." This genuinely sounds like we're gonna meet the Winnower. With the Artifact being a Tablet of Ruin, I think it's totally possible.
I doubt we are going to meet the Winnower, maybe just get a hint as to where they are, maybe a clue leading us outside the solar system? But if we do meet the Winnower, I hope it will be fucking sick
If the Winnower exists, then what of the Gardner? Does she exist in the Pale Heart but can’t/chooses not to speak to us? Because her way is to give people second chances to define their destiny? To spread complexity? If we are to meet the Winnower, surely we must meet his/its sibling, the Gardner (I imagine the two as siblings, sister and brother at a chess board, where Gods, monsters, and Guardians are the pieces).
@@garrettviewegh9028The Gardner does exist; you cannot have one without the other. The Traveler, on the other hand, is a living being; it has no clue what it is or where it came from. All we can assume is that the Traveler is the Gardner's “first knife,” similar to how the Witness was the Winnower's “first knife” that went rogue. The Gardner and Winnower aren’t siblings; if anything, they are our parental figures. The Gardner is our “Mother,” while The Winnower is our “Father.” Lore tabs show Guardians meeting the Gardner and her stating “You are so much your father. So destructive.” I believe this phrase in particular is from Saint-14 himself meeting her.
@ I have seen that lore tab. When Byf went over it. It’s fun to speculate though, about the greater deities of the Destiny universe. There’s still so much we don’t know about the Gardner and Winnower. It has me wondering if we will meet them somehow, someway. Bungie seemingly has concept art depicting the two. Some theorize, that Guardians are the Gardner’s answer: the bomb Logic’s complexity of light and dark, proving itself over the simplicity of the Sword. But if the Traveler/Light is separate to the Gardner, and the Veil/Darkness is separate to the Winnower. Than it don’t be the Traveler or Veil we need to commune with. We may just go out and find the two gods. Or they may find us. Though it feels like they are more observers. But something tells me, they will become more involved. No longer just sitting on either side of the chess board.
Hey Byf - thanks for 10+ years of joy. Maybe it's just seeing Myelin's vid today, but I wanted to extra extend my gratitude on reflecting how much I love hearing about the lore from you guys.
The middle one is Sathona (She's always shone with the veil instead of a cape). I can definitely see Savathun playing the mediator role, but am not sure what would make Oryx and Xivu want to fight each other but not Savathun.
Could symbolize Xivu at odds with Oryx due to him being resurrected which would be against the sword logic which would be the heresy part of it
Knowing that it is the “Echo of Navigation,” I think that it embodies Oryx in a way similar to the other two echos, that it sought out the Dreadnaught rather than just crashing into it by chance, and that the echo is projecting Oryx out around itself instead of him being truly “revived”
Loved you for years Byf hearing you again makes me smile
Eris doing that flip with her hand cannon has got me acting unwise...
12:15 - I believe that in the middle of the three Hive siblings is the scene we saw with the siblings in their Krill forms. You can kinda make out one of the siblings reaching out to both of them like they showed in that close up scene at 9:18
12:30 i think the small figures in the center are the statues of the Hive siblings as Krill we saw earlier in the trailer.
Maybe this is from a cutscene about the Hive trio and their past.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Drifter being revived. I could be wrong but I think it's mentioned that the Drifter hasn't been revived in centuries. Also we know his Ghost is modified. I'm wondering if we will actually see what his Ghost looks like and if so, how crazy looking will it be?
Lore, and Dridter described his Ghost as: “kitbashed”. An amalgamation of other dead ghosts, rearranged and put into his Ghost, to nake it work/behave differently. Probably a way of “modifying” it. After defacing the Ghost, it could never talk again. It even scared the shit out of Immaru.
Not only did the drifter get revived, but it looks like he’s in the area where we talk to the Emissary of the Nine. Maybe we’ll see more of the nine this episode.
12:27 I think this scene is a continuation of 9:46 zooming in it looks like the same 3 figures of their past self’s as Krill.
Can we take a second and appreciate how badass Eris looked wielding that Trust
Been refreshing your channel for the last half hour waiting for this
Glad to have you guiding Milo through the lore byf! So happy to see the lore dads collab
Bungie: You guys like the Taken King? Wanna see us do it again?
8:24 love how the 2 weapons they use are distant relations and trust which both are more or less representative of their relationship with distance from one another as well as trust being key parts.
Wait that actually makes a ton of sense! Especially since it's in the scene where the two of them are fighting back-to-back with one another. Eris especially, since Trust is probably something that doesn't come easily to her after being betrayed like she was by Toland
Imagine this was going to be a smaller-size explosion. Like Shadowkeep, a D1 location updated for story reasons and bringing us into a new chapter. It would have been so hype. But alas, this is a season (I mean episode), so it’s going to be on the chopping block for the very beginning and the story would be dragged out and rather safe.
Hey Byf, I did a couple minutes of research on the SAG-AFTRA strike:
This strike has been ongoing since July 2024, and it's striking basically the whole video game industry (with some exceptions) for AI voice protections.
Games in production prior to September 2023 (including live service games) are exempted from the strike, due to contracts inherited by SAG-AFTRA in the union merger. The union is not mandating that their members strike these "grandfathered" games, but it is asking them to do so and stand in solidarity with their peers if they wish to.
So, it would seem that Destiny 2 is not explicitly struck. Notably, the VAs for Eris and Drifter are members of SAG-AFTRA and both seem to have recorded new dialogue for Heresy. (Though, I admit, they could have done this work prior to last July, depending on Bungie's dev cycle.)
If we have a character without dialogue, I'd hazard a guess that it's either a previously unvoiced character (thus perhaps not part of a prior contract, which could make it struck work), or it's because the VA of an existing character has chosen to strike Destiny 2. If that's the case ... hell yeah, power to the working class!
Is it a bummer to have missing dialogue in game? Sure, but it is infinitely better than the two alternatives:
1. Delay Heresy indefinitely
2. Bungie hires a scab
Loved seeing you pop in on Milo’s stream Byf!
So happy you got the chance to make a video on this this fast
At the 12 minute mark, that looks like its a higher prospective from the same cutscene where the trio, maybe meant to show their growth but also how the siblings never really changed since they were on Fundament.
That Oryx voice is amazing, stunning work by the Voice Actor!
i love that there are parts, where byfs "idk guys never seen this"
ive been waiting for d2 story where we simply dont know yet.
The last scene where Oryx slashes the thing in the middle seems to be part of the cinematic where the three pre-worm sisters are fighting, likely it's all part of the cinematic as a representation of their later forms taking over the former beings they were
I really hope Oryx isnt back as an individual but more of a paracausal force of will hosting some form of "trial" to see who is worthy of his might (the echo and dreadnaught)
I was talking to some of my buddies about this, and we think that it might be something to do with the fact that Oryx possibly sees us as the "rightful" claimants to his power/legacy, having beaten both him and the witness's forces of the Dread, whereas this new Subjugator is just an usurper. Especially since the reference to us as "Guardian-Knife" seems to, at least contextually, be more of an honorific than a casual remark.
Oryx coming back through the Light has so much story potential!
At 12:20, to me the smaller figures look like the Krill version of the Hive god trio shown earlier. Going back in the trailer, it seems that the 3 are surrounded by broken pillars which are similar to the ones big Oryx, Xivu, and Savathun are staring at before Oryx swipes a sword at them. Symbolically, killing their younger, weaker selves with their God forms
The voice for Oryx sounds like the vice actor for Savathuns Ghost, just a bit deeper and menacing.
12:04 if you zoom in on the figures in the center before oryx swings his sword, it’s actually their past selves when they were the kryll
I think think this episode is the beginning of us to start really hearing about the Winnower beyond gear lore. I think the tentacles are it's version of the spores from the darkness for the witness.
Been waiting for this all evening! Let's go!
Thanks so much for getting this video out this fast! You recently said burnout was affecting you - I hope you're feeling better every day!
Awesome analysis as always! ❤ Very much looking forward to playing this season.
The Oryx swinging his sword part looks like a hand.
If you compare that last moment, where the King strikes, to the one where the Osmium Three were Krill, I think it's part of that same sequence - showing how they've grown different, practically, literally, killing what they believed to be their weaknesses as a result.
When Oryx is swing the sword down at the end it looks like the forms in the middle are the 3 sisters from the earlier shot. In their original form.
Im afraid savathun might be one of the muted voices because of the strikes
thank you SO much for addressing the voice acting note in the TWID. it's insane more people haven't commented seriously on it.
An industry strike has been circling for months, not solely a Bungie issue.
@11:47 The three Hive gods are standing over the figures of them fighting that we saw earlier in the trailer.
I think the scene where Oryx, Savathun and Xivu are standing over the rubble is of the scene of their younger selves. If you look closely at the scene you can see the small statues are in the same position as the statues of their younger selves when they are fighting. As for why the statues show them fighting i am not really sure about it, but giving how siblings can be maybe it could've been a squabble over something that we are of course unaware of.
I’ve been waiting all day! Let’s go!
Correction - that final scene of Oryx alongside Savathun and Xivu Arath and slamming his sword down on the figures is just the still image we saw earlier of the three Krill sisters fighting. If you look closely they're not moving and the positions are the same, just from the back angle.
Yo, I didn't even realize that we just got our first live action look at Xivu Arath! That's sick!
12:15
I think the figure(s) in the middle of the three siblings are their younger selves in the previous scene where they were having a fight and one of them subdues the fighting.
maybe symbolizing "the past is the past" or "kill the past for the greater future" thing?
12:19 could very well be the krill versions of them. The figures present look to be in similar position to the one where they fought. The pillars were also present there. So this is likely a later point in that same cutscene.
A detail I noticed is how most of the taken looks to be more feral
Kinda makes you wonder if because the light keeps the guardians who serve it their souls and they are in a way recorded into the traveller, that the same can be said about the darkness as well. As oryx communicated to the winower supposedly from the deep, the winower might also keep its champion's in its own world; and that this new echo has a way to pull the dead back into the living world to the one who holds it. Just a thought
HELLO BYF our lore daddy 😁 enjoyed playing onslaught salvation with you the other day you blessed me with good luck and a great lore chat 🙌🏻 no matter what state destiny is in know that we appreciate you and your lore vids
The scene at the end, with all 3 Hive gods, I think that's the 3 young sisters in the middle just before Oryx slams his sword down. if you look closely, one of the figures has it's hand around another's throat, & it looks like their hand is outstretched towards another. Maybe the 2 cutscenes link up, one after the other, but for the trailer, it was split into fragments
A note to notice is; in the final scene showcasing the three hive gods the figures oryx cuts down. Appears to be the three younger versions of the hive gods!
the last scene is the three hive gods standing over the krill versions of themselves while they are fighting
The eyes could be in reference to Savathǔn eyes from season of arrivals the triumph you can refer this to is “Hive-God Optometrist
Find and destroy all of Savathûn's Eyes.”
I bet this isn’t Oryx but Toland embodying Oryx’s spirit either within the dreadnought or the echo
@MyNameIsByf Crazy theory: The echo doesn't land on dreadnaught or on Titan, but rather gets grabbed by Savathun, who uses it to revive Oryx. Her previous attempt at that failed, and she has put crazy amounts of power in others before, suggesting that she is hoping to use Oryx as a pawn instead of keeping the echo for herself. It could explain the eyes as she has used those in the past too, during the season of arrivals when we received Ruinous Effigy and had to shoot 50 of them around the moon of Titan. On top of that, this would lead to an interesting dynamic amongst the Hive gods. One of darkness, one of light, and one of . With the echo being an entrapped entity from the past that influences the wielder of the echo, it could be a member of the Aminite, but I honestly hope it is Taox, which would mean that it's not the hive gods but an old adversary of theirs that is the heresy. This could lead to plot points for the Hive and even bring in the Psions in on the narrative in ways that could be really good or really weird for Destiny. It could even introduce a mystery of how she died or fell victim to the Witness without the Hive ever finding out. Thoughts?
I can only imagine how epic the follow-up lore video for the New Dungeon will be! 💥💥💥💥
12:21 is that not just the shot we saw earlier of the krill versions of the siblings? probably just a cutscene of them abandoning their humanity or krill-manity or whatever and committing to hive gods life
I have a sneaking suspicion that Eris gonna get snatched in order to have her prepped as a vessel so that Oryx can be reborn. Makes sense with Drifter wigging out.
The end scene of the tree surrounding that podium with people on it has the three sisters on it it probably is part of one whole echo scene like the Riis one we got this past season. Oryx cuts through the three sisters fighting
sag aftra strike has been due to AI voice in games, and the actors wanting protections against Ai voicing in video games, this isnt particularly an issue with Bungie/Sony, but the broader video gme industry as a whole.
I didn’t even realize the 3 hive gods were in that last frame.
I assume most of the season will be about The Siblings coming to reconcile with the error in the methods of the sword. All being defeated at the hands of the light.
Savathun more than willing to lose the path in favor of strength.
Oryx knowing his defeat at the hands of the light. And the master in which he served.
And Xivu seeing the heresy in her siblings and coming to terms.
Perhaps? Perhaps not? We will see
The figures at the center of the screen @12:32 seem to be the 3 sisters viewed previously around 9:17 and are likely apart of the same cut scene. This could resemble Oryx re-establishing his dominance over his siblings or what not. While We the guardian might be a worthy successor to Oryx, I doubt he thinks his sisters are.
Your videos are the benchmark of quality on TH-cam. Thank you for your hard work and professionalism!🌇🤗🍍
I'd like to note that the hibe got holding the othet two by the neck in that cutscene seems to be Sathona, she has the veil hanging from her head, just like she did in the Witch Queen cutscene.
As another note about Savathûn, we still don't know her goal. We figured out she took the light and we figured out she wanted to defeat the Witness, we also know she seemingly wants control of both light and dark, but we still have no idea what her endgame is. Honestly, I think it may be for all three siblings to be reunited and rein over the universe, it would certainly explain her fascination with ressurrection, she went to great lengths to learn necromancy from Nokris, but has yet to use it, she risked everything to get a ghost, and she even tried studying the Scorn for how they ressurrected. It's possible she wants to be the ultimate heretic and the master of death, perhaps she wants to kill and then raise her Siblings so they can be united once more, with the Echo, necromancy, and a Ghost, she could have enough mastery over light and dark to ressurect Oryx. We also mustn't forget that if she'd succeced in Witch Queen, then she alone would have had access to both the Traveller and the Veil.
Finally 1 of the 2 things that would make me play destiny again, Oryx
1:23
I don't really know what the whole problem is about or if they already told but if they haven't it's probably not bcs of them not paying their voice actors
In hoyoverse the community has got the same worry about english voice acting bcs in genshin most voices are muted and in star rail a lot of voices are following that path (haven't heard anything from zzz) and in the end it wasn't about the money, the company pays a studio to do the respecting dub and this studio can or can not be part of sag-aftra. With all this strike thing sag-aftra voice actors are not meant to work if the studio isn't part of the union either until it joins or they get replaced with someone not in the union
Again, i'm not aware about what exactly is the issue with bungie but if they haven't said anything conclusive is most likely the dubbing studio not being part of sag aftra, not them directly not paying their voice actors
was waiting for this the moment the trailer dropped
The tentacles are partially anchors and the dreadnought is in the EDZ? The website was updated when the trailer dropped
I think that ECHO is merging the Dreadnaught (Akka) with the remaining spirit of Oryx. After all, the Dreadnaught is his throne world that took physical form in the universe through "inversion" and the use of Akka as a base. Just as the Traveler is the other iterations of ECHO, he is transforming the intangible into the tangible.
my solar warlock will make an oryx-scented candle this episode
Goated commentary, great insight from the trailer
The trailer guys always cook, but we gotta see what's going on in the game to see if people will stick around. Cheers as always, Byf!
It will be interesting to hear if oryx is like “I’m back fuck you” or “why am I back you beat me by my own rules?”
Pretty sure the Echo is Oryx himself. I assume we are battling it out with the Dread for the power of the Taken.
Didn't those tentacles pop up in Hiraks' boss fight in Forsaken in the Ascendant Plane part of the fight?
Also, that final sword strike scene looks like it's Oryx attacking that area with the siblings younger forms.
Nice to see that in one of the most important parts of the lore, half of it won’t be voiced because of a strike. Amazing.
Labor rights are more important than video game lore
Your channel is a source of endless fun and inspiration. Keep sharing your adventures and smiles with us!🏆🌅💣
If I remember correctly savathun is the one that have the veil in the head, so I think it would be her in the middle in there small version
12:30 that's a zoom out of the scene of the sisters fighting
The voice actor strike explains the fffafafaffaffafafffaaff dialogue in the last exotic mission XD
Find you someone who is as into you as Byf is into Destiny
When the Episode names were announced, and we got more info on Revenant and the first look at Heresy, I immediately thought "half-decayed dreadnought, a pantheon shake up, the idea of heresy...what if he's back?"
While I LOVED TFS, the episodes did nothing for me. That was my last hope.
And the King returns, in some way, and Im ready to face my personal favorite enemy once again!
The hive siblings fighting is in my opinion semi likely to be the discussion about what to do with the ship they find on fundament
Just incase it wasn’t noticed I did see what looked to be a takeny texture on the legs of the subjugator so maybe when the attack cutscene happens it will have tried to learn taking but failed I don’t know it’s just something I noticed
Since they never even mentioned Xivu my theory is each act is going to involve a different character trying to claim the Taken Throne
I kind of get the feelinf Oryx isnt the bad guy. That he's our Ally against the Echo Bearer
3:48 this is probably one of the stone cutscenes bungee have been doing
Are the eyes not similar to Savathun's eyes from Season of Arrivals? It's what jumped to my mind the moment I saw the key art on the livestream
This is going to be insane
the tentacles could be a taken or mutated version of egregore
4:26 slow at .25 speed, and you can see Drifter diving after someone likely Eris