Ditch Brazing. Learn To Use Staybrite 8 Soft Solder For HVAC Copper Lines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
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Installed my own AC system using Staybright-8 over 9 years ago. No leaks ever. Super easy to use and much lower solder temp than brazing. BTW the joint is actually stronger than brazing. Although its expensive you can use it for other projects. It will also solder copper, brass, steel and stainless steel and mixed metal joints between those. I was able to make various adapters that are simply not available anywhere.
Amazing. Thanks so much for sharing!
Ya, amateurs!
How about refrigerator compressor? Do you think that works too?
Who told you it’s stronger? That’s wrong. Hard metals are stronger than soft ones.
Stronger then pressure rings I believe that's what he meant@@mookfaru835
I'm actually a tech for one of the state universitys here in Utah and I really appreciate your videos. Very straight forward and to the point. Great video!
Nice! Yesterday I just installed my own Goodman 3 ton air conditioner yesterday using Stay-Brite 8. It held pressure and vacuum and I saved thousands doing it myself.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing! Cheers
way tooo go. it's not that hard with all these great hvac youtubers!
@@rivergate950 Thanks! Between awesome videos by The DIY HVAC Guy and the book Refrigerant Charging and Service Procedures for Air Conditioning by Craig Migliaccio, it wasn’t “terribly” difficult. I am confident that the next time I do one it will be easier. The first one was a bit challenging, but doable.
@@80SWoods Just curious as a DIY installation how did you register it to get the 10 year warranty?
That's awesome. I'm an hvac contractor myself and I'm glad to hear that. I'm going to look into this staybrite. Hate having to braze and this is soo much easier
Regular propane gas gets plenty hot to do this job. I installed my HVAC equipment using StayBrite 8 and a regular propane torch.
I’ve been using staybrite 8 on all of my replacement jobs and even new construction jobs. Super easy and quick.
I currently have an R22 system. Can I reuse the line set for R410a, do I have to flush out the lines? No burn out, just a very slow leak in the evaporator coil. Thank you
I purchased a 4 ton 2 stage, 2 speed fan (non communicating) AC condenser to pair with a new 4- ton evaporator and new moderate efficiency (non communicating) furnace. The furnace and evap were installed professionally in January, and I got a quote of $7,700 from them to install a 2 -ton single stage condenser for my 2200 sq. ft. home (built 1976) near Chicago. After researching the tonnage needed for my full sun exposure home, I found that 3.5 ton was a good match, but I couldn't source a 2-stage unit until I went to 4 tons. Anyway, your DIY videos are helpful in that no contractor wants to help me install the condenser I bought. All in, it will cost me half of what the furnace installer quoted for an unsuitable unit, plus the time to educate myself on how to do it.
This guy is my Hero!
We need more people like him.
Good suggestion. Thanks, One suggestion: When soldering horizontal connections, feed the solder from below not above or the sides. When you feed from below and you then see the top fill up, you KNOW that the entire space is very likely completely filled without any hidden gaps.
Nice
Great Video been in the trade since 1972 ready to retire wish this product was available way back when.
I used 15% silver solder, the best as far as I know.
Yeah, I was practicing with it at work. Used acetylene. Doesn't flow very well, doesn't need flux on copper supposedly. Hard to do in the wind outdoors.
15% silver is the best, now if you're low on budget the 5% do the job too.
Have been using Stay Brite 8 for years. Excellent solder. The key is not to use excessive heat. A torch with a smaller less intense flame works best. A torch such as a Bernzomatic 8000 is a great torch BUT has a crazy intense flame. You're better off with a cheaper utility torch head that doesn't suck in all that air so the flame is just about as wide as the torch head.
Thanks for the feedback! Nice to hear others who are using it 😎
What about for doing a compressor fitting
@@La2venida If doing a compressor changeout I'd stick with brazing due to the excessive vibration near the compressor.
It has been years, but if I were to solder I would probably just throw a Sof-Flame tip onto my air-acetylene handle opposed to the spiral tip like TurboTorch… Particularly if I were in an attic as it is much less heat and easier to pinpoint the flame, but still hotter than propane (as true mapp, methyl acetylene propadiene propane, no longer exists last time I checked)… I found I could get the joint done just as fast and fills that gap between propane and oxy-acetylene…
Regular propane gas gets plenty hot to do this job. I installed my HVAC equipment using StayBrite 8 and a regular propane torch.
Certain outdoor condenser units run off a head pressure switch which runs pressures up to 350 until the fans kick on. High pressure safeties in the field are between 400 to 450 psi. The tech sheet for staybrite 8 says 10k+ psi is the strength of staybrite 8. I might get some for future compressor installed in commercial kitchen applications. I braze just fine but I wanna see how well this works.
Brazing tip: use a wet rag under a small square sheetmetal burn shield (1 ft by 1 ft sheetmetal shaped to warp around copper pipes to protect from flames and heat). Works every times and I have a handful of scrap sheetmetal shaped for different spaces.
Man, I’ve been binge watching your videos. You just got another subscriber my man! Thanks for everything
After i add the solder, i hit the connection with the flux brush again while it's still hot. It really smoothens out the solder flow and cleans up the joint.
Do you wipe it clean after it cools completely?
For some of us the HVAC part of these installs is not that difficult but the small things like adapting/extending existing refrigerant tubing to mate up to an evap coil that has a different physical arrangement is a little tricky. I'd love to see how you go about that, bending tubing, etc. The other problem with that is also where to get the materials since DIYers like myself won't have leftovers from other jobs. I have been able to find short coils of 3/8 and 3/4 tubing on Amazon as well as fittings. So, I am just going to give this a go next week on my install.
I am sole with SB#8. I will give it a try with my first DYI installation soon. Thank you.
Hi man, how did your installation go?
@@valberde61 Much easier than I thought - if I can do this, anyone can. Just be sure to do some practices before doing the real thing.
@@RNN24 I think I’m going to do it myself. The hvac company quoted me for 5000 jut to replace the ac.
@@valberde61 The hardest part would be on fabricating sheet metal, merging the existing duct to the new evaporator box. But, not too hard - try making them on cardboard paper first, then transfer to real sheet metal. Plan it carefully, with everything, it maybe going to cost around $ 2K ish. Good luck!
@@RNN24 one last question, did you reused your copper lines? If so did you have to flush the lines since you when from R22 to R410?
I like to bend the solder at a length equivalent to the diameter of the pipe. Once the joint has sucked that length of solder into the joint, you are done. Any more than that you risk of solder entering the pipe as ball bearings and being sucked into the compressor and self destructing.
Good advice… thx
Excellent advice. As a major diy'er could have. Thought of that yrs. Ago. Thanks. Always thought little ball brgs. Getting to the TXV. Oops.. Thanks again.
Thank you for this advice.
❤@@nickmrt2670333@3
Good stuff, I installed a preowned Carrier "roundy"25 years ago using staybrite. I have replaced a few run caps but never had to add any R22.
A tip to know when the joint is properly filled, even if filling joint from one spot (not circling fitting)… There will be a brief moment when you see a perfect ring bulge from around the joint. All the solder past this point will either drip out the bottom or fill up inside or on the pipe.
Staybright silver bearing solder is great on Expansion valves or sensitive heat temperature sensitive areas but other wise I prefer to braze. Stronger more durable joint.
nope, staybrite 8 is stronger. Already proven
@@bigkountry29 I can't speak to whether it's stronger, but will say that you really need to take care that no flux remains in the pipes when using it
I know it's not as hot as brazing but I would still pull the Schrader valves so there is no pressure build-up.
My father told me that his company used 50/50 solder on every r22 condenser they installed from 1978 until 1995. I still see some of his stickers every once in a while on an old system and they for sure did solder with hard copper. Of course the higher pressures of our modern refrigerants probably wouldn't be ok with leaded solder but he swore by it for r12 and 22
Well, I just did it. Stay brite 8 on my 410a condenser ACIQ. Pulling a vacuum on the system now. Don't have the $$ for nitrogen pressure testing though.
Thanks for the information your are appreciated and respected!👍
Hey in a next video could you explain dew and bubble point also humidity levels in layman’s terms please.
I started in hvac in 1987. I have installed .any thousands of systems. I have slways used a tubing bender to eliminate fittings and swedge instead of using couplings whenever possible. This this cuts costs , and saves a huge amount of time. Get used to using a bender and you will get the job done way faster.
Thanks for the input. With soldering, gaps are not good, and I found that the swaging tool creates gaps. That’s why I’m prefer fittings but I totally agree with you, if I’m brazing I always try and eliminate the need for fittings. Cheers
I used to use fittings and such. Then I bought a swaging tool. I don’t do much a/c work anymore but if I sold all my equipment I would definitely NOT get rid of my swaging tool!!
@@diyhvacguybut like you showed, if there is a gap, take flathead channel locks and gently press them to close the gap.
If the fittings are clean, and proper amounts of flux are used AND you know how to solder ( and manage heat) this method can't be beat. its very fast, strong does not degrade the copper and no nitrogen is needed. It does not over-temp valves. You can work in tighter spaces. It's the only way I roll.
I stay away from solder because its more rigid and prone to cracking/leaking from vibration from equipment. As well as if linesets get bumped by a lawn mower or kid playing. Brazing makes a more flexible and resilient joint.
$87 for the Staybrite kit. Wow. I wanted to try it but I do not do that much soldering. Thank you for the recommendation.
Yea if you aren’t doing a replacement job it’s probably a bit expensive just to play with, but If you ever do a diy ac replacement, $87 is a very small price point compared to investing in a oxygen and acetylene tank torch set, not to mention brazing rods which are about the same as Staybrite 8, 70-80 bucks.
Nice job again, Every time . I enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the good work .
Thanks!
I get the thing about imperfect swages leaving gaps. But the downside of using fittings instead of bends and swages is it doubles the number of solder joints. Course if they don't leak then it isn't a problem...
To the repairman telling of poor repair qualities due to poor fitting or dirty fittings: I’ve brazed for years and you don’t want to use poor quality fittings or braze anything dirty period. The other huge advantage not mentioned is you don’t have to flush system with nitrogen while using Staybrite. Cut practice joint and see for yourself. Clean inside with no oxidation. Some new products are truly useful and advance to ease of use for the DYI’er but also the pro. Yes, this will cut into the repairman /hvac business, and help homeowners.
Even 95/5 will last. I installed two systems in my house with 95/5 back in 1991. Still going strong. Just don't get crazy with the flux and don't allow the fittings to have a mechanical load on them after soldering. But Staybrite 8 is much better.
If you do swage. Use a step type drift punch. Not an expanding type. You can expand the male pipe slightly with the tool with the expanding die to get a snug fit.
nice job. I've also seen people cut off about 1 or 2 inches of solder, make a ring and stick the ring into the pipe fitting then stick the tube into the fitting and heat it up so it melts outwards
That was probably one of my other videos :) the difference is that is still brazing so you need a nitrogen flow.
I would not do that , you will have too much solder in the pipe !
No
"Get it soaking wet, but not too wet" LOLOLOL.
Nice job on those joints sir. I have seen this solder before, but never figured there was much difference for a diyer. But after this vid, I think my job won't look as dobbed and pitiful 😂 . Looking forward to next one! Stay safe!
Thanks brother. Staybrite 8 is super easy. Just make sure it’s prepped right and has no gaps!
I remember seeing this StayBrite solder at the supply house over 35 years ago. The factory reps demonstrated how to use it but we always used 15% silver brazing stick. I used it on my own HVAC equipment and I was impressed.
Wow no brazing needed! Awesome work
Question: I have been practicing on 1/2 in copper pipe with Staybrite 8. I've then cut the fittings open to see the result. A tiny amount of flux still gets into the joint. I wonder how much is acceptable?
Any moisture or contaminates in the system is bad. There's a reason techs braze and it's not because we like paying more for Acetylene
Thank you for your videos. Is it possible to use a Zoomlock push to connect directly on condenser or do you need to solder in an extension fitting, which defeats the purpose of push to connect. Thank you.
I’ve used it a lot without any issues. Brazing has its place where your joining tubing and there’s to much play in the joints. One thing I’d suggest is to buy a tubing bender, practice and watching some videos on using it, if you had a bender for your suction line you’d only soldier 2 joints and not deal with the elbows and potential leak points. Also, but some swaging spinners and create a male female joint and eliminate the collars. One other thing I’d do is wipe your joints off quickly with steel wool before the solder hardens, just a more professional look, nothing to do with strength of the joint.
Ill keep using my 15% 30 years never had a leak
Im so sure about this stuff with high pressure
Everyone has there own opinion
Yeah stay brite plus the vibrations over time = all bad and DIY people using stay brite flux is bound to get in the system which is acidic
Is this the same one used to solder electronics components or cables
Been watching your videos on this solder. Looks good..
BUT pressure alone isn't enough of a real test..
add in the unit vibration/accidental condenser movement/bumping into and months/years of oxidation.
hence; let the leaks begin!
Have you used it? I haven’t had issues and I’ve talked to tons of people who have for years and years no problems.
@@diyhvacguy you using it on R410A & the soon to be R32 & R454A.
Ive only seen the after effects/ oil and low on freon. going back w/ Harris 15% braze and leaks stop for good
With staybright can you flow nitrogen??
Wishing for experience on the new A2L refrigerants that have higher pressures and temps. Will Staybright8 be enough still?
will you recommend Staybrite 8 when replace compressor ??
Amazing video! I have a few questions if you pls help me out. I am HVAC diy and I will like to start testing my lines. So, what kind of nitrogen I can use for testing pressure? nitrogen 100% or 5% hydrogen and 95% nitrogen. Also, will this method of MAPP brazing will work for a mini split 1/2 flex line, I kink the 1/2 line and I will like to try to braze it. Also the where do i find the fitting, you have a 90 degree fitting but are there straight fittings, so I dont have to swage a copper pipe.
Do you have any recommended installers of HVAC equipment in San Diego, CA? I am going to buy my own equipment as you pointed out in a previous video. Because of your contacts, I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for a great contractor! Excellent videos and I wish I could find an installer like you. Thanks again for the education.
i'm not familiar with staybrite ?? How strong of a joint does it create compared to silver soldering ?! I want to learn how to braze copper to copper , or copper to dissimilar metals for fluid transfer in low pressure ( up to 200psi ) applications like oil coolers for hydraulic systems on the low pressure side . A coworker who has done a lot of silver soldering in electrical connections commented to a friend that he now uses a low temperature version of silver solder that is extremely strong but requires a whole lot less heat to work with ,but; I'm not familiar with what he is working with ?!
No failures yet? This stuff seems pretty soft. Especially for R410a. I have some 8 but am leery...
Great video
What about those crimp connectors with the double orings. I assume you can rent the tool reauired to compress them. Then you would have no acid residue in the lines to mess up the compressor. It is my understanding that they are rated at 800psi when properly installed?
I see You don’t heat up the male pipe first in both brazing and soldering?
Don't have to flow nitrogen while soldering like brazing?
Can I use this on fridges?
Is great video
Which method is better brazing or solder
Soldering is way easier. It’s my new preferred method for sure
What about cleaning the inside fitting?
Can you solder a hole in a copper line going to a coil?
A lot of folks don't know that soldering is good enough for HVAC. The only drawback is will it stand up to vibration.
This is new method very nice & easy. Do you think the soldering works for years and it will not make leaks from joints?
I know several people who have been using Staybrite 8 for many years with zero problems. I’ve seen leaky braze joints, so it’s just a matter of doing the joints correctly with both types of connection.
what is the difference between Lenox paste flux, Oaty lead free silver soldier and what you are recommending?
Do you need you flow nitrogen in the system while brazing with mapp gas?
Will this solder work on aluminum automotive a/c tubing?
The one argument that I have against using this is if there was a fire you could have joints popping and refrigerant being released. Other then that I'm all for it.
If there was a house fire, I think leaking hvac joints would be the least of a homeowner's concerns.
I was always taught you need to braze an HVAC line instead of soldering.
Soldering is good only for water lines
Nice. you don't have to braze ac lines?
No sir. A lot of people use Staybrite 8! A lot of guys prefer brazing but Staybrite 8 uses so much less heat, so no nitrogen flow is needed, and there is less potential to burn anything up.
@@diyhvacguy what system do you prefer?
I had used that solder and flux(if you can call it flux), and as you said, is great, but I have a question, can this type of solder could be use to braze(solder ?) the high side copper line of a refrigerator compressor onto the stainless steel end of the condenser's coil ?
I think you have to have a special wire for that. I don’t believe Staybrite 8 would work going from copper to stainless steel
I guess I am going back to the silver solder, flux and oxiactylen ways.
Appreciate with this informative video!!
I always considered 60-40 lead tin and 50-50 lead tin to be soft solder. Stabrite 8 is silver solder is it not? So why are you calling it soft solder?
I fixed a lot of these leaks with staybrite
Is the Strybrite 8 strong enough to hold 410A?
Is it legal in most states?
Can you use stay brite 8 on carrier Rtus for commercial applications?
Thank you, sir.
I saw the video about using nitrogen when soldering to prevent cupric oxide from forming inside the lines. Why did you not use nitrogen flowing when doing this soldering?
Damn good question
At 400 degrees you don't get any scale. look at the outside of his joints.
How does stay bright 8 handle vibration?
what is the size of each of the pipes - suction & discharge? thanks!! [ an aside:]I tried staybrite 8 on a very tight fitting 3/8 sleeve/pipe & the solder appeared to be ok, however, after i worked the joint (flexing it ) to see if it would hold it came apart. the solder was only around the edge of the sleeve.(i did get the pipe very hot, maybe too hot - solder was dripping while applying) also, i finished heating both lines , with the flame on the female to draw it in . what did i do wrong???? additionally(after thought) I only used sandpaper & nothing else, no stay-clean
The Stay-Clean FLUX is required for a proper solder joint. The FLUX is essential to draw the liquid solder deep into the joint. (30 year TH-cam armchair expert here.)
@@chetmyers7041 GOD BLESS YOU , THANKS!!!
Thanks for making these videos. I'm going to install a system on my house soon and was glad to see the joints could be soldered instead of brazing.
The coil install instructions say not to use soft solder. Is there any reason not to solder it anyway or should I look for a different brand?
Yes some say not to because people can overdo it with the flux, or if they put too much solder you could end up with solder bee bees in the lines but as long as you aren’t feeding a ton of solder in you will be golden. I advise trying on a few spare pieces before hand.
If you need some assistance with your install, we offer remote help with replacements for DIYers and home owners over at Patreon.com/diyhvacguy It’s $50 (cancellable at any time) and we will give you one on one assistance with your replacement, also with sizing, diagnosing, and even help with getting the full 10 year warranty. Cheers, Dave
@@diyhvacguy Thanks for the advice Dave. Going to order a whole bunch of stuff from your links and get this project done before it gets hot!
If you did normal plumbing soldering this will be piece of cake. Do some practicing before on normal copper. The main trick is to not over do it, and it's better to use normal propane (blue) as the heat is not this intense.
@@laurentiupetre5620 it was easy! Hardest part was getting the coil into the addic. Was warm today so got to use it for the first time.
If I'm going to run a vacuum test, do I still need to run a pressure test in addition? I'd rather forego purchasing nitrogen+tank and stick with just a vacuum
Vacuum can show you that there is a leak. But it will not show you where. When you do pressure test you can use soapy water to check leaks. Also sometimes vacuum will not show the leak. But pressure will.
with a 400 something degree melting point staybright 8 should easily melt with propane torch since you can use propane torch to melt pot metal form of aluminum witch is used to make flange nut rings for kitchen sinks.
when scrapping a kitchen sink i find that i have to use a torch to melt away part of the ring witch is only pot metal grade aluminum and aluminum melts at something like 1300 degrees.
I saw you were feeding the nitrogen pressure on the high side in the video, did you do the low side off camera since I saw it was in the 300s already.
The nitrogen goes through the high side, into the home in the Evap coil, then back through the low side and stops at the schrader valve. So no need to put both hoses on for pressure test.
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Great videos. Do you ever do refrigeration such as batch freezers, commercial fridges for restaurants? Looking to handle my own equipment as some of these guys that come out are rip offs..I have gelato batch freezers, holding cabinets, display and undercounter fridges. Especially just adding some Freon to top it off. Brand new gelato batch freezer failed on the first day. Checked all electrics and checked the compressor and the compressor died. Under warranty but the company wanted a certified guy. Minimum was 800.00 to come and tell me the compressor failed so the company would send me a new one. Then estimated 1500.00 to install the new one. R404a refrigerant which I purchased a 5lb cylinder. Looking forward to more of your videos.!
Good info for tne diy guy. Do you have any experience with the Fieldpiece sman digital gauges?
Yes! I have several friends that have been using them for a long time and I have a 3 port manifold set and I absolutely love it!
@@diyhvacguy can you make some videos on how to use it? I bought the 4 port manifold version but when I shut down the refrigerant port after charging my heat pump, the valve acted like it stayed wide open and I sucked some air in my system. So I sent it back. And I didn't have time to really learn it. I would like to order another one eventually.
What happens with bead of flux the solder pushes inside as the solder wicks in? I've soldered electronics for many years and flux always leaves residue.
Will be caught by the filter if small
Thanks for all the videos. I watched all your videos and replaced my 5to trane system to GOODMAN.. save couple $$$$.
Awesome sauce. Thanks for sharing!
@@diyhvacguy please make a video on how to find freon leak or detect leak.
what would be a good tool for flaring the pipes to the correct size when using the staybrite
The Hilmor hand pipe expanded. Not the automatic one.
This knock off version would work the same though: amzn.to/43AEtSW
Will this hold up will this hold up to the pressure in the lines and the refrigerant
Yes, Steve, right eight is designed for use with refrigerants, including r410a 👍🏼
You don't even gotta remove the Schraders with staybrite 8?
Wanted to know in your pressure test process, could an air compressor be used instead of nitrogen tank?
Nooooooo compressed air is full of moisture which is exactly what we are trying to keep out of the lines. So nitrogen is needed. But if you get past 500 microns and pass your decay test, you can bypass the pressure test all together. If you have a leak you won’t be able to pump it down and hold at 500 microns. Cheers
Lolol my air compressor shuts off at 150psi. I hope yours does too, or you're going to blow your tank up.
@@diyhvacguy Even if you pump it down to 100,000 microns, the pressure differential from outside to inside system is less than 20 psi. Seems there could be a joint that can hold 20 psi suction, but may blow apart with 200 psi. Perhaps in your experience a solder joint is either "GOOD" or "Bad". Nothing marginal.
good work 👍
How many psi will this hold?
Is it as good as silver sticks?
Tensil strength on Staybrite 8 is 10,000psi
great video
What kind of Flux are you using for this type of solder?
Stay clean. It comes with the Staybrite 8 kit by Harris
Why couldnt you the lead free solder stuff?
Hi were in capetown stores can purchase 1
hello?
I'm trying to weld ice machines.
Is it possible to use it?
Staybrite 8 Soft Solder
thanks
HOPE IT WORKS
IT DOES!
Anyone ever had any problems with inspectors not allowing staybrite 8 on a 410a system in Michigan?
Where do you buy all of your fittings?
Hvac supply house, but you can get acr fittings from supplyhouse.com