An Awesome Alternative To Brazing HVAC Lines. Staybrite 8 Soft Solder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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This video is for educational purposes. Any and all HVAC repair work is done at your own risk. The DIY HVAC Guy channel is not responsible for any possible damages or injuries caused by the use or misuse of the provided information.
Remember to heat the joint, not the solder. Apply the solder on the opposite side of the heat and let the solder run to the heat. As well, if possible, do all sanding before you cut the pipe. Finally, don’t touch the pipe where you sanded with your skin. You will transfer oil to the pipe and “dirty” the contact point of the solder.
Thanks so much for the feedback sir. I'll be implementing all those tips on the next job. Cheers!
Nice
I’ve never heard of the transferring oil and making it dirty part😂 seems a little over board but hey I guess we learn something new everyday
You can certainly transfer dirt/oil from your skin to the parts. About the heating process, you need to have experience heating the parts up to understand how heat flows. So get after it. It’s not just simple to understand, there are lots of factors involved. Making a solid joint requires that the entire section of the joint to be soldered/ brazed needs to be above the melting point of the solder, so that when the solder is applied, it will flow into the entire joint. And you can’t just burn the crap out of it, controlling the heat is essential... for a good joint and for efficiently. When the joint is done... it’s done, move onto the next joint.
@@Alienspecies635 it’s very true. I doubt it matters with brazing but when using flux and soldering it sure does. You’d be surprised of all the little things can’t prevent solder from sticking or running.
I have been Staybrite for 30 years on residential HVAC. A quick check of their website shows the tensile strengths far in excess of the pressures on the lines. I'm glad you demonstrated it.
@guydickes2177 what’s your experience using Staybright 8 directly on the suction and discharge lines at the compressor? Most comments say stay away from SB8 all together but the ones that say they do use it say due to vibration they do not use it in the compressor connections.
Looking forward to your response!
I wrap the valves with wet cloth, and have used Staybright for 30 plus yaesr without a problem. Lower heat requirement; just use flux sparingly@@davidsin4761
I can see where on compressor change out you might want to braze at compressor due to vibration of compressor especially on start up conditions, other than that STB 8 is great, I'm not so sure if it wouldn't work on compressors though.
Would you also recommend using Staybrite at the evaporator coil side of the system?
@@tomg4753 No reason why not. I use StayBright on high and low sides.
I've used it for 40+years.... Best to put the heat at the bottom of the the female joint warm up and add the solder at the top feed it in until it bulges out the bottom..... Wipe with a wet rag and done...
Excellent product.... Glad your using it.
Thanks for sharing
@lstar2662552 what’s your experience using Staybright 8 directly on the suction and discharge lines at the compressor? Most comments say stay away from SB8 all together but the ones that say they do use it say due to vibration they do not use it in the compressor connections.
Looking forward to your response!
I've been using this since I've started in HVAC 20 years ago and I agree this is better in all residential situations. StayBrite 8 has high tensile strength
Tinsel or tensile? Because one matters and one is a Christmas decoration.
"Tensile"
Does this work on 1/4 in and 5/16 refrigerator line for home refrigerators
@@AMERICANPRIDE1100
Yes
Had a customer try this on a walk in cooler. He got solder in the tx and the solenoid body. Pricey repair.
Grandfather started his own HVAC business in the 60’s. He always used soft solder and taught me to use it as well. Never once had an issue with it. I went to a technical school for HVAC just to get my license, and the instructors would get pissed when I’d tell them about soft solder and they’d would claim it wouldn’t work. Lol
Your grandpa was right, I started in the 70’s. My rule for soldering was use what is currently there pretty simple. New work, discharge lines 15%. silphos, dissimilar metals 45%, everything else stay-brite 8. My answer to the guys who say soft solder will fail is it’s probably 95/5 and not stay-brite8 .
It might work temporarily , it is not a high temp rated seal as brazing is. I have always found leaks specially when homeowner jerks around with condenser
The problem with solder is you can get oil and other contaminants in the pipe which can harm the system plus the structural integrity doesn’t compare to braze
StayBrite 8 is the best for new installations. I installed my HVAC equipment with StayBrite two years ago and I haven’t had any leaks. I hate brazing with high heat especially in attics. There are some rednecks who refuse to learn new methods.
Monkey see monkey do , that's all i can say brazing is high temp equipment solder is fir water fir many reasons, but Monkey monkey do"
So glad to see this video. We are at the start of our journey into diy HVAC and running into the sil fos wall.
It’s hard to demonstrate such things on TH-cam and I’m glad to see the kind advice given by folks about soldering technique.
I got my lessons years ago from my brother ( an HVAC tech) and I use it for my plumbing soldering over the years (heat one side and touch solder to the other)
I hope you are encouraged to continue to put videos out…this one brought me a breakthrough.
My only suggestion is to braze the furthest joint first (the suction line on your first example) so that you are not reaching over a hot joint to reach another. This is more important when working on several connections at a time.
That's a great idea! Thank you!
I have a nice scar on my forearm for this exact reason lol. Something I learned tge hard way
I have bee using this for 35 years in commercial refrigeration on both hi and low sides. Best use for this is to install txv’s or solenoid valves especially if they are brass. Your turbo torch tip was way too big in the first shot and flux is not needed inside the fitting. Been told by Harris reps that this joint will have a higher burst pressure than a brazed joint where the tubing is weakened and I can see why. Once on a project years ago at Merck Pharm plant this was an accepted alternate to brazing. They had some of the most stringent regulations of any place I have worked at. If you use this correctly this stuff is great.
Thanks for sharing!
I did a install at Loctite and the engineer insisted i braze 4” copper chilled water lines what a pain in the ass. I wanted to use Vic I almost quit
I need a job
Where do you live?
At one time I used a induction heater (no flames) to solder copper pipes that where next to a wooden wall. Solder melted a lot cleaner.. Makes better looking connections.
Only thing I use when ever possible. I used Staybrite 8 on a 1 1/8 shut off valve for a trane chiller holding 850 pounds of R134a, 5 years later and still no leaks. I use it every where except at the compressor.
One of my fears with using a solder instead of a braze is that since solder has a greater difference from copper than the standard silver rods, a wet and corrosive environment could allow electrolosis to eat away the solder. Ice-O-Matic's copper evaporator plates fall apart very quickly because the solder they use corrodes away much faster than the braze that Manitowoc uses. So I would say be mindful of this possibility when environmental conditions are rough.
Has worked for me for 20+ years. Can't argue with results.
Something to remember is that the copper needs to be very clean copper to make solder properly hold and use light flux , light heat, and should only need to use the width of the outside diameter of the pipe in solder
(1/2 inch of pipe uses 1/2 inch of solder ) 🙂
Thanks for the tips!!
The flux would be a no go, due to acid, use acid away b 4 start up.
@@drg424 a no go with flux lol
I use stay bright 8 also on installs. You should also wipe the joint off to get to any left over flux off.
Awesome thanks for the tip 👍🏼
I've used and love it when you gotta sweat a TXV in. Low Temps help prevent the brass from overheating and lessening up the capillary tubes. I will say I have seen these fail easier under vibration. So I wouldn't recommend using it directly at the compressor if you ever do a change out. Also, like another comment said. Wipe down your fittings really well afterward. I've gone to units where the Flux wasn't wiped off, and it eats away at the copper. Then you'll start getting pinhole leaks.
Awesome tips from a pro. Thanks so much!
or you could just do it right and use 56 and a wet cotton rag 🤷♂️
Flame is far to unstable
Get a proper torch tip
Thanks for the video. I been using staybrite 8 for 3 years now .. just like any skill it requires patience and practice .. making sure pipes are cleaned inside and out.
Don’t overheat the joint !!!
Most importantly.. the weld is solid and clean. Don’t see myself going back to brazing any time soon.
Thanks for sharing
I got units I put in 20 years ago with staybrite
Do you wire brush the female ends to clean them?
FYI: It's not a "weld." You're not melting and mixing the pipes.
You're using it for HVAC piping? What happens to the flux that mitigates into the system??
I used this stuff 6 years ago installing my new furnace and AC and the system has yet to need any service. Nice that a home owner can save some seious money like i did.
I have been using that product and method for over 25 yrs. Nice job.
I always use an old Flux brush and wipe the joint when complete. Makes for a more professional looking joint. Believe me..... I've seen solder joints that looked like RAY CHARLES AND STEVIE WONDER did them.
🤣
Kinda looks like the amount of heat you would use on a water line ( plumbing) application. I may be wrong. If it is, this method is much better idea than brazing. I am a plumber and currently in HVAC school and just been trying to get as many pointers and different methods as possible. Thank you for this video. I had never heard of Stay Brite 8.
I am the manager of a R&D HVAC test facility. I can tell you we have used this in the past, however we stopped for a couple reasons. 1. It can/does fail under high pressures. 2. Joints can fatigue over time and the hold is less secure. 3. There have been joints that blew apart during testing (after being in operation for months) causing a loss of refrigerant and very dangerous situation. The copper will violently swing away from the broken joint and could hurt a tech or puncture a coil. We no longer use this for any test application. I wouldn't use this in a home where it is intended for long term use.
However, I did want to say I do really enjoy your videos and appreciate the time and effort you put into helping others. Improving the tools and skills of those who install the products helps EVERYONE!
Agree. Been in this business for 28 years. Commercial and industrial. This is a joke! This guy should not be putting this garbage on TH-cam.
Illegal as Hell! It melts at a way lower temp than brazing Rod! Good luck in a commercial setting when a fire breaks out.
It's not pipe BTW. It's called tubing. Rookie
I agree 💯 this Garbage this method is for plumbing low pressure water high pressure isn’t work.
I'm 62 years old I've used this stuff ever since it come out if there was a leak it's because the guy probably didn't do it right Has to be exceptionally clean and flux right and heated right
Thank you very much for an informative video and info about the Harris products.
MAP gas is not the same as MAPP gas. Mapp gas production ended in 2008. When you buy MAP, you're mostly paying for a yellow can. From wikipedia: "MAPP gas is widely regarded as a safer and easier-to-use substitute for acetylene. In early 2008, true MAPP gas production ended in North America when production was discontinued at the only remaining plant in North America that still manufactured it. However, many current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes. These versions contain mostly propylene with some propane, dimethyl ether is included as a 3rd ingredient in some versions.[1] [2]"
That’s good to know
When soldering you need to heat the parts, not the solder otherwise your joint may be cold (and weak). Keep that flame away from the solder.
To clean the parts before joining use an abrasive pad for the male part and a brush for female. Don't scratch them with whatever you used.
After soldering clean the flux residue with a wet paper towel, rag or anything. If left there will corrode the pipe or at the very least look bad.
Thanks for the tips!
It was painful to watch. I like your explanation on proper technique. 👍
Nice video. I always remove the nuts and fill the well in the valves with water before wet wrapping. Thanks for the nitrogen nod. Nitrogen purging is in every manufacture’s installation manual and yet so many people are surprised when they are exposed to it.
I've been wrapping valves heavy with toilet paper wet it good clings tight to valves keep spray bottle keep wet if I have to
i've used this a few times, you're right about the solder not liking gaps, its very runny
I have been using this product for years now with no problems. It has a tensile strength of over 10,000 psi. A Harris representative at an air show told me this product is actually stronger than Silphos . I only use mapp gas and it is very quick.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing
How about using it on mini splits instead of flares? Wont the flux cause issues?
This method and demonstration is a game changer for hesitant DIYers. Thanks.
I started using that in 1984. Works great great
Harris reps came to a local supply house in 1985-86 and demonstrated how to use StayBrite soft solder. One of my coworkers installed a refrigeration system using StayBrite 8 but had to reinstall the pipes because the customer complained that the pipes were not brazed, only soldered.
@@picklerix6162 Sounds like people laugh out loud
I went to a hvac community college in Henderson, Nv., and they taught us to use solder, in copper connections… Thanks 🙏
I have used StayBrite 8 and the white flux for 40 years. Never a problem
Flowing nitrogen through your pipe stops Oxidation from inside the pipe... I would actually love to see a joint cut open and compared against a nitrogen joint. You don't use a pocket knife for deburring? Solder flows towards the heat because of a tiny vacuum/low pressure gap thats created by the heat expanding. Heat the male end first, and the move to the female and gradually bring the heat up. Your technique was spot on. Flame in left hand, solder in right. These video are excellent!
When soldering is done right both methods produce similar pipe interior appearance and zero oxide formation. Heat is not a thing so it cannot expand or contract, the solder flows into the joints because of capillary action, for this reason the joints need to be tight fitting as solders in general have poor bridging capability.
I will recommend this to anyone... I just did a 3 ton install 410a.did a nitrogen test,2 hours afterward..what a god sent item.....wow..amazed the heck out of me.....now my tanks sit....P.S..let it cool a sec to fill in bigger gaps,if there are any...peace.i4i
Very nice, the more you practice the cleaner and neater your solder joints will be, you don’t need to apply so much heat as when brazing. The pipes shouldn’t turn black.
Can't over emphisise that!! Copper shouldn't turn even blue for that solder. You heated the wrong side of the joints! You must heat the socket to draw it in.
Thanks for this, I've been thinking of an alternative to welding for some small hobby projects and this is a perfect alternative for my purpose. Very helpful demo.
Finally got some SB8 and flux! New furnace and AC coming tomorrow! 😁 DIY all the way...
This Stay Brite 8 is Absolutely Fantastic ! I only use Silphos 15 if I have a larger Gap that needs to be filled.
I need to pick up some 15% braze rod. I've heard really good things about it, but i'm excited to implement the staybrite 8. Its not as hard to work with as people make it out to be.
@@diyhvacguy The # 8 is nothing new. It’s been on the market for at least 20-25 years. It is more sensitive to prep than Harris 15. There are cheaper versions of rod. Some don’t contain any silver, and you can break the rod like a pencil. I would stay away from anything that doesn’t contain silver, or a small amount of silver.
Staybrite 8 has always been a good product. A couple of tips for guys,1) wipe the excess flux after inserting the joint, 2) heat the pipe first, then move the torch to the fitting to draw in the solder into the socket. and of course if you have a large gap don't use solder, it not a good filler material like sil-fos 15
Thanks for these tips! From someone who has actually used it lol so many guys bash it because they don’t know how to use it.
What happens to the flux that mitigates into the pipe? That's my question.
@@deltaf222 Use a small coating of Stay clean flux and wipe the excess. If your really concerned with it, you can flush with hot water, Use your compressor/nitrogen tank to blow the line out before your vacuum. Vacuuming removes the moisture anyway. And you should be nitrogen testing your joints also.
@@jmac213stuff Flushing out refrigeration lines with water?? Never, ever, ever, ever do this!!! Dear God.
@@deltaf222i have the same question... Cant find answer anywhere
I could be mistaken but I believe all 410 condenser installation manuals refer to brazing refrigeration lines. You don't want Flux mixing with refrigerant. Obviously people have been soldering these lines. It could be an issue if there is a warranty issue. Not installed to there specs. By all means do what you're comfortable with just saying.
Yep, fixed plenty of leaks from people using it it r410a systems but I have also seen plenty of r410a systems that did fine with it. Just depends who did it. I prefer brazing, also brazing can still look good if done right
did hundreds and hundreds like this - used a map gas torch rather than a turbo torch - nice job
Yellow turbo torch is mapp gas. Blue tank are propane. Turbo torch is just a brand name.
😄 I was using Mapp gas 30 years ago, to silver solder high pressure induction coils, using Easy Flow 45 silver solder. The process is nothing new, except that you're just now learning of it.
It’s all I’ve used for the past 10 years, no issues ever
Thanks man... Good Job...I will try using Nikolite Solder Lead 50/50 Bar Soldering
In 7yrs I’ve only used staybright 8.
Wet rag is definitely worth it.
Get the spin swage too, works great.
Everybody migrating to propress now.
Have you used Propress for Hvac ? Just wondering if any issues .
@@davelemon6908it really depends on if the person did it correctly! prep is still 90% off the job for progress too and people don’t do it correctly! They definitely work
I have nothing against Staybrite 8 for repairs on txv's, reversing valves etc, but you might want to check your equipment install manual before using it to install your outside unit. Most every manufacturer says it must be "brazed" when installing the condenser. The local and state inspector made a local contractor here re-install a whole subdivision for using Staybrite 8, because of the manufacturers instruction manual
That sucks. If you are doing a ton of homes then yes, definitely check that. That was very unwise of that contractor not checking that.
Despite everyone saying not to use Stay-Brite solder I decided to anyway on a DIY HVAC install. That was 7 years ago and the unit is still running good with no leaks. The Stay-Brite solder is awesome!
Amazing. Thanks for sharing!
Just be sure it's the Staybrite 8 Harris and not one of the many other solders they produce.
I wonder why so many techs use hi heat braze and yet more often than not don't flow nitro to prevent sooting -- bc it's more work / hassle, and TVX clog failures happen 4 - 6 years later, past warranty. Could it be? : 1) This is how they were trained 2) Brazing rods are cheaper, Stay Brite8 is expensive 3) The belief that brazing is stronger more secure under vibration
It does not hold out forever linesets are better off with braze which is why you’ll void most manufacturers warranty with silver solder
@@roberthernandez1985 That's exactly what everyone else said but here we are 7 years later and no leaks so I still don't see the advantage of brazing. Plus, it appears that most of the lines on the compressor are soldered from the factory so it does not make any sense why those can be soldered but the line set needs to be brazed.
I've been using it for 25 years on everything but dissimilar metals and I think the biggest advantage is the way it flows down into the joint farther. 15 stick doesn't flow nearly as well and you have to worry about hydrogen embrittlement of the copper. Just my opinion
I had a refrigerant leak in a condenser tubing/fitting that I had soldered together (not too well) a few years ago. I told a tech about it. He said, “Braze it.” So I got my torch, brush, flux, solder and resoldered it, doing a better job of it this time. Pressure test: No leaks (PTL).
Next time take your time and solder it right the first time
I have used the Stay Brite for years and with Zero problems. I have had units that were brazed in by someone else and the brazed joints all leaked and failed - so much for brazing. My Stay Brite Joints have lasted over 25 years and going. Yes, you have to prep and clean the pipes when using this or you will have problems - I am certain that is why folks have problems with this, they don't clean properly and are used to brazing where you don't have to clean as well some don't do any. Yes, use the right flux compatible and refrigerant friendly, no glob, try not (don't let) to let any flux into the line set, wipe off the outside of the lines once cooled down. Great video!
Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely implement those things you mentioned as well :) Cheers
Braze joints all leaked and failed? If this is the truth they were using the wrong brazing rod for the application.
Wow!
It's so great that you finally made this video.
I've been waiting for this one for a long long time.
More to come! 😊
Try not to put the solder right into the flame the way you did. It prevents all those drops getting on the condenser base. It’s really not an issue with brazing either. The only time you get drops is when someone does what you did or overfills the joint and it comes out the bottom. You have to keep an eye on the whole joint, not just the point at which you dip the rod.
Yes I’m learning :)
@@diyhvacguy yeah that’s kinda the impression I got. I wasn’t criticizing you, just giving some pointers. One of the issues I usually see with people learning to braze is the neatness of the joint. The phosphorus makes it self-fluxing, hence the name “sil-fos.” Silver/phosphorus. When you’re nervous or shaky and touch the rod where you’re not supposed to, you’ll get it all over the pipe. Also burning holes in smaller tubes because they let it get too hot/don’t move the flame around enough.
That's what I used When I installed A Brand New A/C 2 ton unit by Goodman...... 7-years ago......no issue but I did Vacuumed it and used Nitrogen
Amazing. Thanks for sharing
Can't understand for the life of me how HVAC guys don't use Staybrite 8 almost exclusively.
The low temperature it flows at means that you don't have carbon build up in the pipes (no need for nitrogen purging) and you don't weaken the joined metals from high temperatures (annealing). You don't have to worry about cooking thinks in the vicinity such as service valves or plastic panels (unless the panels are really close by). Melting plastic surroundings is a big concern in domestic refrigeration repairs.
Some people claim that it's weaker in areas of vibration. Can't argue that but my experience and manufacturers claims say differently. If your experience differs then use alloy brazing in areas of vibration such as compressor connections.
Yes it's more expensive but the benefits mentioned earlier make it worth the extra cost to me.
You do have to clean and flux. It's not forgiving to poor prep. Very forgiving to proper prep
You do need tight fits because it flows very thin and that is a big reason many guys prefer alloy brazing because you can fill in some relatively big gaps.
Another reason many guys prefer alloy brazing is because that's what they have been using for years.
Reality is that our innate resistance to change is the biggest reason we don't want to try something different unless forced to do so and then often we wish we had done it sooner. That's how I felt after trying Staybrite 8
Btw, difference between Staybrite 8 and regular Staybrite is that Staybrite 8 is a little more expensive (20 buck basically) because it has a higher silver content which means it has a temperature "range" at which it will flow so you can (if you know how) use that ability to fill in gaps in minor loose fittings as it gets thicker at the lower tempeature flow point, whereas regular staybrite has a single temperature flow point.
Man that water in the background made me want to take a piss. 😆 🤣 😂
Sta Brite is almost 100 a roll these days. Save your material.
1" and smaller hold the torch under the fitting at 6 oclock with the flame licking the pipe too. Then just tap the solder to the top of the pipe by the joint but not on the fitting. As soon as solder melts on pipe lay the solder to the joint at 12 oclock. That's it. No drips, never fails.
Good work. Easy to follow. The communication pace is perfect!
This was a really nice detailed explanation how to solder. Thank you 🙏
Welcome to the Stay-Brite Club. I love that stuff.
Thanks for the video! Appreciate it but like some of the other commenters said you need to heat the joint and let the solder suck in. This is just like plumbing. I am noticing more plumbing stuff coming out now like press fittings (RLS joints). Don't know why plumbing solutions have not been used until now.
Best kept secret in the industry I've been using it for over 15 years
Apply heat to the bottom of the joint, once to top is hot enough to melt the solder it will flow around to the bottom. Let the pipe melt the solder not the flame.
Yes I wish I would have known this and tried some soldering first but I like living on the edge so I tried it for the first time on a friends install haha if it ever leaks he knows where to find me :) I’ll definitely apply that advice moving forward! Cheers
@The DIY HVAC Guy hey you got the job done that's what counts.
We used Staybrite 8 with an acetylene torch to heat it for decades....up until the use of 410a refrigerant and the higher pressures and temperatures that go along with it.... Staybrite 8 is certainly a much cleaner connection, but we found that it does not hold up well when making the freon line connections at the compressor itself... and it was just seemed easier to have 1 set of torches and brazing method for everything...
I use map gas and my tips are 100 dollars
Yea kinda wondering that as well…
Dude said it’s stronger than brazing which is absolutely not the case at all whatsoever. Assuming he misspoke because soldering is never stronger than brazing…
@@codythompson9035 actually silver solder when done right is stronger than brazing.I've been installing ac's for over 20 years and I've never brazed .I've never had a compressor failure. I've never had a line break, dude I've seen units 20 years old hanging on a cliff and never broke. and were staybrite soldered
@@rodeoclownobama5796 I repair commercial/industrial HVAC systems as well and you would be literally the only person I’ve ever heard claim that soldering is stronger… Have at it
@@rodeoclownobama5796 Also never had a compressor failure? I’ve seen brand new package equipment shipped with a bad compressor to begin with… The bs is strong with this one… 👌
I’ve been in the business for 42 years and never herd someone say, going to let it dry organically
Just used stay brite for the first time and I am sold!
Hehe awesome man
Great video I just tried it for the first time I did a few practice joints to get the hang of it . I think the biggest part of this is to have a clean joint and the right amount of heat with a tight joint . The only thing that scares me if you get to much solder in the joint does not sick and locks up a compressor not sure if this could happen
Not compressor i scene guys use stay brute 8 on expansion valves and over add solder and there will be balls of solder in the expansion valve. Great product use it all the time. Doesn’t do well with vibration.
Question can you use this technique when replacing a Compressor. There is a lot of vibration but then again the compressor is on rubber mounts to tune the vibration down but is there too much vibration in that area that might cause it to crack or get brittle and leak?
Just finished installing a Goodman split heat pump successfully, but I did a few tests on the Stay Brite 8 solder connections first. Sanded both inside the fitting and outside of the pipe, and just fluxed the male end. Complete fail, and I tried it twice. When I reheated and pulled them apart, the solder only bonded to the male part of the pipe, the inside was completely void of solder except for a few specs here and there. Tried a third time on a new test piece with a THIN layer of flux on both the inside and outside and both were nicely covered with solder when heated and unsoldered. Your example might have worker because you put a TON of paste on the male which then probably oozed onto the female side, but that defeats the whole "keep flux away from the refrigerant" idea.
Another thing I noticed when I soldered the liquid line at the air handler was a bead if loose solder at the bottom of the included 3/8" elbow at the air handler. I pulled it out before tightening the gasketed nut at the fixed orifice, but that was concerning. I made sure I soldered all the connections (extra filter/dryer on the liquid line, 7/8" 90 degree elbow and a swaged piece of 3/4" to 7/8" pipe on the suction) starting at the end farthest away from the condenser so that I could shake out any loose balls before the final solder, but I didn't see any. I also didn't over apply solder, tried to follow the 3/4" length for a 3/4" connection rule. Pressurized to 350 PSI with nitrogen and soaped the connections, then vacuumed to 40 microns and everything looked good. Time will tell. I highly recommend your last suggestion in the video where you flux both surfaces lightly, I would never flux only one side after my experience.
This is great knowledge to have. Thanks for your input sir
@@diyhvacguy You're welcome, glad to share my experience. And thank you for helping us DIY types with your very informative channel, the HVAC industry is so closed and secretive.
Have used stay brite for years and was used a lot in refrigeration equipment where you can’t use as much heat that is needed for Silphos
Man another great vid for us diy'ers! Love when you break it down for what you know what diyers are going to have in their sheds! Thanks once again sir!!
You bet!! Cheers man
You already have to have the nitrogen for pressure testing I’ve never understood why people make such a big deal about having to purge with nitrogen. Plus not having to deal with flux. To each their own.
Nitrogen costs money but I hate lugging around a oxyacetylene rig when I can use a smaller propane torch. Mapp gas is not necessary in my opinion. Mapp gas has gotten very expensive lately.
Wouldn't letting the system rest for 20 minutes after pulling a vacuum and checking for a pressure change indicate a leak as well as nitrogen pressure testing?
I brazed 100% of my joints. I do commercial heating and air and I never see that on the parts shelves. If I find it I will do a comparison test with a pipe caps and braze one side and using this solder stuff and do a 500 psi test on both joints simultaneously. That's holds I go to 1000 psi. I like brazed joints though because you can fill a joint with a silfoss rod.
Do a test and let me know! I’d like to do a test too. Tensil strength on it is over 1000psi
Solder joints hold more pressure but are more likely to crack from excessive vibration. Getting a pipe hot enough to braze it anneals the pipe and weakens it. The pipe itself will fail.
Holding the torch in one spot on the bottom of the connection and adding the filler on the top will allow it to flow into the fittings towards the heat source. It's not necessary to move the solder 360 degrees around the connection
WHAT SIZE PIPE IS THE SUCTION LINE??? THANKS FOR THE GREAT VIDEO!!!
Wipe off your excess solder with a towel while it's hot. Also not sure how well it works for hvac application, but in plumbing I was taught to brush the area down (after soldering) with flux while it's still very hot. This cleans all of those burn marks and what not. Then wipe it all down with a towel when you're done. $0.02. I'd still rather braze, but not having to use nitrogen is a plus, never thought about soldering hvac lines before.
Using it for years. Good stuff.
I will be changing the way i braze after watching this
Great video pal
Thanks brother!
I'm sure you know this but when you clean the copper remove any Emory cloth dust and remove any flux after soldering which is corrosive
Solder flows to the hotter area so you should heat the back side and apply the solder to the opposite site. Then you can wipe it when done to clean up that drip.
Impressive!
Didn't know it's stronger than brazing!🤔
It’s not
0n paper the burst pressure is higher but it is not stronger in my opinion. Is it strong enough for 90% of what we do? By far
If you take your flux brush and dip it in the flux after applying the solder you can clean the weld and fill the crown of the weld by going around it with the brush!!!!
When you braze , you create an alloy . When you solder you create an occlusive bond .
Can you explain what the difference is and the advantages of one over the other please.
Both processes involve melting a filler metal into the joint, but not melting the base metal.
Awesome video. I was reading that 410A can go up to 400+ PSI. Have you tested the joints at at that pressure?
My friend tried that couple of years ago and got alot of call backs luckily 410a wasn’t expensive lol
It’s possible he didn’t do it right 🤷🏻♂️
@@diyhvacguy im sure it will work great for refrigeration
“Let’s get our flux on!” The HVAC DIYers battle cry.
Stay Brite has been around for nearly 50 years
Staybright a good alternative to brazing. Assume then it should also work well at the other end of the system if changing out the evaporator coil?
I’ve been using that stuff since early 1980s. Some city inspectors don’t like it because looks like a solder drip if you don’t wipe that off.
Brazing is the manufacturer recommended method with nitrogen purge. Having said that staybrite 8 if used properly does work quiet well.
No matter which method a nitro purge and a very good sustained vacuum are the keys to a properly functioning unit. We all know how moisture can ruin your day 😔
@@irishmike4914 yeah. Better yet purge with the refrigerant. Or do a triple evacuation using the refrigerant. Refrigerant has absorption qualities that nitrogen does not.
But refrigerant ain't cheap anymore! I would get my butt chewed out trying to bill a client or even worse a homeowner in these 15k sq houses in NJ !
I have not seen an HVAV Tech yet who can solder! Look at the solder on the ground. Put the flame about two inches toward the house, Let the line transfer heat toward the joint. When its hot enough the solder will melt just by touching it to the pipe joint, Keep the flame away. It will melt and suck into the joint just as smooth as can be, Stop putting the flame on the joint and solder directly. If its a clean joint meaning emory cloth it shiny and dont touch the clean metal after you clean it then Flux it good then solder like I said above.
The penny trick is a first for me but a really good idea
All I have access to is a B Tank plumbers torch. Will that work and what number tip should I use? Thanks.
You need a smaller torch tip an A3 or A5 is plenty big for what you are doing.
If only we could use that on Co2 systems and K65 copper 😂 I’ve been brazing joints for 8 hours straight on some installs haha
Can this really hold the pressure of any refrigerant we use in Hvacc ?
Thanks for your response.
Need to replace the suction service valve on a heat pump. Would you suggest staybrite 8 or brazing?
I recommend to always wear safety glasses anytime using a torch
I know a guy who almost lost an eye using a torch.
Great point my friend. I need to be better about doing that myself.
I use this Mapp Gas with a Turbo Torch Tip and does Wonders..🤟😎🤟
I still don’t trust it. Sorry, but I do appreciate the very detailed description of how it works. I much rather would move to a flameless joint. I do enjoy all the innovation with tools in this trade, things are always changing
EXCELLENT WORK, THANKS FOR SHARING