I get up in the morning, fix a cup of coffee and start one of your videos. My feet are swollen and my back is worn out but I get excited and say to myself I can do that. I have a reason to go up to my hobby shop and try something new. Thank You Joe for your time and the knowledge you pass on. I pray that God will Bless you with your business, your family and your TH-cam videos!
Enjoying your Videos. I've been a machinist for 40 years and I have taught the techniques you show many times to new machinists and apprentices. Good scoop. Keep it up. Unfortunately today with all the emphasis on CNC, very few machinists are taught the basic skills needed with a manual engine lathe.
I agree. Several years ago I noticed that many of the valuable skills and skill sets which many call "the old ways" were being lost due to advances in technology. It's like we are on a speeding train and the locomotive is scooping up technical advances, but since the train can only hold so much cargo, the conductor in the caboose is throwing overboard all of the old to make room for the new. But what happens when technology fails? So I started a youth outreach that is aimed at getting the inner city and suburban youth off of the streets and come together peacefully and we demonstrate how everyone benefits if they cooperate and work together and create a bright future for themselves regardless of what the economy may do. One aspect is to teach them the old ways starting with how to make their own hand tools and wood, metal, and machine tools from scrap. In the process the learn the skills that were used to start the industrial revolution and more. Some of the youth would like to take the knowledge and experience to other countries and help communities start local manufacturing and build a better life. So there is hope and nothing will be lost. I think this grassroots movement will have a positive effect on the USA too as these were the skills that had once made this country great. Peace!
It is very simple to get your steadyrest dead on! Provided that your workpiece is round and smooth. Chuck the workpiece, position the steady maybe a few inches from the chuck. With the spindle off, adjust your two lower rollers to the work, tighten them in place. Loosen the work in the jaws a little and slide the steadyrest to where you will actually be using it, lock it down. Tighten the chuck jaws. Adjust the top wheel now too. At this point your steady is not set perfectly, but it is good enough for the next step. Turn on the spindle and drill a small center in the face if the work. Spindle off. Back off the three rollers a bit, support the workpiece with a live center. Again adjust the three rollers to the work. Now the steady is set correctly. There is another step to use for workpieces weighing hundreds of pounds or more which involves a cathead to center support the work, or drilling a center prior to loading the work.
Great video, I like your straightforward approach and clear explanations. Your videos will stand as valuable lessons to future generations of machinists, especially if manual work continues to be a dying art in younger generations. I'd like to see more about your lathe alignment techniques, I suspect they'll turn out to be more efficient than many others!
I learned something from every one of your vids Joe, but mostly your methods are teaching me to be more considered in my approach to each job. Thanks and keep em coming.
I got to say you R Da Man. I too have been in this trade for over 30 but 26 was as a tool and die maker so I didn’t do ever day machining but I just recently changed jobs and Now I’m just a machinist ( not by no mean belittling the trade ) so now I’m tightening up my skills and I know when I see a true master man. Good job 👍 and thank you. Lenny. 😜
An old machinist once told me he got into the trade because he didn't want to work too hard and he heard that being a machinist involved a "Bed" and "Steady Rest" and that was for him.
I've been learning manual machines through videos for quite some time now. I'd love to get into it later, but for now it's a neutral, educational way to entertain myself and get away from all the politics in the air these days. I appreciate your videos for often showing methods that are either more accurate, safer, easier, or all three to methods I see used other places. I just had a younger friend ask where to start, and I sent him here first, because I believe he is least likely to get taught the wrong way first. Thank you for providing complete solutions to individual problems instead of just trying to add a single detail to methods listed elsewhere.
Thank you very much for this comment. I've only been at this for 6 months, and I try to pick engaging material. A string of CNC programming videos are in process. If you, or your friend have any specific questions, just ask. Regards.
An old timer told me years ago about truing a center drill on the end of a shaft after placing it in a properly adjusted steady rest, by "peeling the center" with your turning tool. It ensures that the previously drilled center is concentric with the new set up. It would of course mean that your carriage would have to be on the right side ( outside ) of the steady rest. By the way buddy, your instructional videos are top drawer! Nobody is ever too old to learn something.
Thanks Joe for all the info and great videos!. I've done a lot of prototyping in plastic. Never had to worry much about speeds and feeds beyond the obvious. Got into the live steam hobby (almost all steel, stainless steel and iron) and was rudely awakened by melted tool bits and extremely short tool life. I would love to see a video (for a newbie) on speeds and feeds and how you go about figuring that out.
I've gone from a high precision environment to rough ass marine, still try to keep my precision machine skills even when customers often saying "it doesn't matter" and usually 0.020" clearance on bushes , this videos are super helpful and I find myself thinking back to them the when given certain jobs, that setup you have that there is genius, time ive messed about getting long parts bang on without walking out. These skills can be used as much on shop/repair jobs as on brand new parts. Long time sub, rare commentator, many thanks Joe
This is one of the best channels for getting to the nuts and bolts and things that aren't always found in books. You break the math down to where a peabrain like me can grasp it! I'd say I've learned more from you and Machining Moments in a few vids than from hours of watching Keith and Adam make chips. Definitely going to be making a gizmo to set up my steadies. And your possible discover about your headstock being misaligned because of the 4 levelling screws got me to thinking about a similar issue I'm having with my Sidney. I cant thank you enough for you videos, please keep them coming!!!
It may have also been from the rollers and radius being too forgiving and allowing a few thou of contact to feel too smooth. Feeler gage may have helped that. The top roller was also upside down and I may have marked it incorrectly. The front of the bar was dead on.
What a great method. Also well done on the subscriptions, I have never seen a machining channel grow so rapidly. A thought on the devise for setting the rollers - If you were going to make a tool specially for the purpose of setting steady rests you could make it with the projecting rod running at 45 degrees instead of 90. You could then use a micrometer to set the radius of the rod without needing to set slip gauges up. One micrometer anvil on the radiused tip and the other inline on the back side of that 3/4" bar. To find the projected radius it would just be micrometer reading minus 3/8". The grub screw would have to move from the end of the bar to the diameter. Hope that makes sense. Cheers. Crispin
Hello Crispin. Always good to see a comment from you. Thanks for the well wishes on the subscriptions. The channel has a lot of momentum right now. I never expected anything like this, but I am interested to see where it goes. Your suggestion is right on. You would be limited to your range of measurement by the diameter of your main rod (rod pocket depth), but being able to set with a mic would be fast and easy. No big deal, just have several rods along with the main one like a depth mic set. Your 45 degree suggestion is interesting, but 90 would work with a non thru hole as well. Regards.
Hi. The idea of the 45 degrees is so that you can have a through hole. If you have a through hole at 90 degrees you have no where to put the mic anvil as you say. However at 45 the exit of the through hole is behind where the mic anvil would be. Have a look at one of my videos called 'machining cylinders part 2' where I show this idea with a line boring bar. Cheers
Excellent point. I was imagining positioning the mic inline with the small rod, not square to the big one. I like the way you think Crispin. you are a sharp guy.
Another useful method, if you have a well-aligned tailstock... Support the part in the steady using the pre-setting method Joe Pi just taught. Then drill a center hole with the tailstock. The center hole will be on center even if there is slight misalignment, because the center drill is stationary and the stock is moving. It will just drill oversize, but that does not matter. Then switch to a center in the tailstock and support the work on the center with the steady rest supports retracted. Then re-set the steady rest supports by touching the work. Now remove the live center and you're as close as you can get. You can also just indicate the center hole, rather than actually supporting it with a center. Thanks for the video, Joe!
Good comment. The whole trick is to get it close right up front. The secondary adjustment is very good. Thats usually after the tracking diameter fiasco. Thanks for the comment. After checking, it was a combination of stock size and roller contact that gave me that .005 rise. Still.....1/10 of 1/4 of 1 degree error on a raw setup is not too shabby. Thanks for watching.
What a simple and straightforward solution. The technique I was taught was very similiar. But I served my apprenticeship in a large shop with a large amount of material on hand. If working with shafting steel cut a slug off along with the stock for the job. Chuck up the slug and indicate the slug to zero (we used four jaw chucks only). Set the steady rest to the slug and carry on. If no excess material was available machine a piece of stock (usually out of the scrap bin and set it to that). It got to the point I kept a set of slugs of the common sizes we used for pump shafts. The rebuilding of pumps for coolant t systems on machining lines was a constant job due to the coolant getting contaminated even with filtering.
@@joepie221 Before the Press Room at the facility I worked at was shut down every so often we would have to make a new clutch shaft. Depending on the press model these were between 5 to 7 ft long. With about a 1/2 hole drilled maybe 2/3rds of the way down. The shafts could be up to 8" in diameter. They definitely went on the table of the Boring Bar before they saw the lathe. Stay cool
I was hired and will start to work in a machine shop tomorrow. And I was looking for a video to refresh my knowledge and to get some tips. Your videos are great! Thanks lad!
Thank you Joe for taking the time to make/edit/post your great videos. I've learned a lot & really really appreciate them. Subscribed. Thanks Again & Best Regards, Jon
Before i would go jumping off a cliff panicking that my lathe was out of alignment i would repeat the process using some precision ground bar and take any variables out of the equation. Joe your video has got me thinking of a dedicated tool with an adjustable rod that could be set with a depth mic and a parallel , maybe not as accurate as gauge blocks but for the average home shop machinists plenty good enough.
If you drill your hole at 45 degrees as suggested by Mr. Crispin, you can simply mic over the rod and feeler tip because there will be no inline through hole. just position the mic perpendicular to the main rod, not the feeler rod. Glad the video got you thinking.
Hey Joe always enjoy watching your videos I'm retired now but just about everywhere I worked somehow I always got to do most of the maintenance on machines and dialing the headstock in to the ways was something that intimated most of the other machinists I adjusted a colchester that had .008 in 8in until I got it down to .0003 start to finish took 4hrs to do the job the machine was bought new was a professional model with a joy stick that the machinist before me wrecked into the chuck in hi speed rapid trans the foreman didn't think it could be fixed they were fighting the machine running it with all that taper because it was the biggest lathe in the shop and I guess they didn't trust anyone but colchester to fix it
Thanks Joe, I had watched this video a while back, and although it was interesting, I never really thought twice about it. I turned something about a week ago using a steady rest and it in fact, tried to walk out of the chuck. My first thought was that I had not tightened the chuck up, and that was that. Tonight I came across your video again and it all came clear. Thanks again, JB in San Diego.
Joe - You knowledge and practical advice and insights are beyond compare. Your methods and approaches are always so spot-on and practical e.g. V-Block for centering stock - this ...WOW! Thank you for taking the time
Always interesting tips Joe. I usually use a 4 jaw chuck, unless I have access to an adjustable 3 or 6 jaw, for something like what you were showing and then a "cat head" on the outrigger end of the shaft...then with the steady rest positioned where I plan on using it I dial in the shaft, using the cat head, once zeroed I just bring the rollers up to light contact with the shaft. "cathead" for those not familiar is just basically a cup that goes over the end of the shaft, fairly close to the shafts dia. + an inch - nothing, with 4 set screws at 90 degree increments around the circumference (used for dialing the part in) and an end with a center drilled hole in it for the tailstock.
Thanks for making these videos Joe. I've watched quite a few of them now, tons of great tips. I really enjoy using your method of thread cutting. Thanks again!
This man is so knowledgeable, thorough and informative. I wish I lived in his area, I’d try and work for him for free part time just to learn from him. Subbed...Thx for the videos!👍👍
Joe, very interesting to see the way different machinists think. What I do is traverse the carriage with the indicator on the shaft both top & bottom and adjust to suit. That also works well if you have rectangular or square bar with a journal at one end, or same bar with a center sans steady rest. But really, what I usually do is get the bar end adjusted close to the tailstock, start the lathe, touch the bar with the center drill and adjust by eye while testing with the center drill. It may sound crude, or unsafe but it really works well and is expedient. You can always shave the center hole or use a tailstock 4 jaw
This is great. It took me quite some time to get the rests finally behaving as they should. I could have sure used this lesson oh soooo many years ago. Thanks teach ! Definitely a time for patience and clear thinking.
Not only a great tip, but I learned about parts “walking” out of the chuck I’d the steady rest isn’t dead-true. Your vids are *so* informative and useful!
Well son of a gun, if that ain't the neatest trick! I've had the walking problem with no idea how to correct it until you showed us how. I also like the way you dialed that three jaw in; gotta fix mine like that. Keep 'em coming Joe.
This method is excellent for working on existing parts. If you have to reclaim, or do a rework like in the case of a weld repair, this is a good method. Geezer Tips: If you are working with a piece of stock, that will be turned down substantially, it saves time to chuck on the workpiece and get it to run true at the chuck and the steady rest. From there, lightly set your steady rest wheels, and then take a light facing cut on the end. Once you have the center faced, gently drill a center hole. Back off of your steady rest wheels and then use a center in your tailstock to hold the piece. Move the steady rest ahead of where you want it to ride, and cut a "witness" area. This will run true to center line. Once you have that, run the part slowly with the center still installed, run your steady rest wheels in until contact, and then proceed... If you are pressed for time, you can measure the amount of jaw play that Joe talked about, by mounting an indicator on the face of the chuck, setting your steady rest wheels as close as possible, and then rolling the chuck over by hand. If you are not concentric between the chuck and steady rest you will see movement at the indicator. You can adjust at the steady rest to correct, and then back at the chuck, until you see no movement on the indicator. I did lots of rework on large heavy shafts, this way. Once you have everything set up.... Go find a piece of cardboard. Cut a hole in it about the size of your workpiece. Cut a slit to one side, all the way through, and then work it around your workpiece and tape it to the face of your steady rest, in the direction towards where you're cutting. Chips love to get in between the work and the rollers, and either mar your part, or blow your wheel bearing. Not to mention, having to clean out your drawers when you see/hear it happen. Last Geezer tip... If you're steady rest is worn, particularly at the hinge pin for the top, set your lowers as shown.But when you go to set the top wheel, back off of it and tighten the top nut, and then back off of it, just until loose. Then feed the top wheel in, like Joe said, but when it contacts, let it run just a bit, to find the true center of the rest. On some of the really old ones, you can actually see the top frame of the steady rest move. Once it seats in, back off the wheel again, tighten the top nut, and then feed the top wheel in as you would otherwise... Hope these are helpful....
The cardboard shield idea is a good one. One bad chip in the roller track and it can get bad real quick. I had rubber sheets I used for that with small 'X' cuts to go over the lock screw heads and keep the shield from rotating.
Just caught your comment. I often run a very old and loved 25' bed Lodge & Shipley with a 36" swing and I get stuck with the long shafts. We have virtually identical setup techniques (including the cardboard).
Thanks, Joe. Good stuff. I get as much from your brief comments as I do from the main presentation. Like the importance of a heavy lathe's leveling screws. Haven't given it a thought for years, but you're right. Weight can torque the whole chassis if they're out, just a little maybe, but it can translate into a lot on long workpieces. How many lathes have guys given up on because they could never get them to run true? I also appreciate that you get to the point. I don't have to watch for an hour to get 5 minutes worth of information. Keep it coming. Good channel.
I think I must be low tech. Of course I have a small south bend and seldom do anything with a lot of weight but most often I simply indicate the end of the stock that then set the fingers to the work. I've had great success doing this although I will admit, I have never machined stock between the rest and the chuck. Seeing as how my 3 jaw is not adjustable I'm sure I would end up with a slight taper. I can't imagine walking stock out of the chuck. It seems like you'd have to be out a long ways to make that happen. I probably won't use this information but in general I have learned a lot from your videos! Thanks.
Handy approach Joe. thanks for covering this. I hope to see a follow up . After our brief exchange of messages I went ahead on my project and managed fine with the steady rest on the bull gear shafts was making , there is some video on my channel showing how I indicated it all in. All the best. Mat
Maybe add a tailstock alignment video if you haven't already. I would be especially interested in any ideas on re aligning a tailstock that has dropped below center due to wear on an older lathe. Thanks, keep up the good work.
It gets you right there on the first try. My .005 rise was the diameter of the bar and about .001 too much contact on the initial setup. I checked after the video.
nice video, Have you ever used a mag base magged to the chuck jaw face and then extend the reach towards the steady rest , put the indicator on the shaft pointing to center of shaft, now rotate chuck by hand and watch indicator, indicator will show you run out if its not aligned, you can then adjust steady rest to zero and true to the chuck, just have to have a good mag base and stem , otherwise you could see some droop with the extended reach with indicator depending what position the chuck is at. depending on the alignment of the ways to the head stock, (and 72 degrees outside ) we were taught in the Navy to turn a Dia and then slide up steady rest towards chuck and then adjust rollers, then move steady rest back to where needed . seems that would work in a perfect world but seems it always needed tweaked in to keep part from trying to cork screw out of the chuck.. I like the sound effects at 3:26 .Thanks again , you always have great videos with good instructions Rondal Nannie
This is very nice of you. Again people liké you continue to lightning thé others with their knowledge and contribute to progress thé humanity. You make me happy with your vidéo. Thanks a lot. I wish you thé b'est of life.
I generally just put a short piece in the chuck, turn it to the same dia as the work piece and set the steady rest very close to the chuck. Then I move the steady rest out and put the work piece in the preset Steady Rest. Please let me know what you think. I really appreciate your videos, it helps a hobby machinist like me.
Great tip Joe! For the verification of the machine alignment you could reference Connelly Machine Tool Reconditioning " book. It's an awesome reference book for rebuilding but has all the testing to check alignments before and after reconditioning. Take Care
This is great! I've been fighting away trying to line up the steady rest and accepting reduced accuracy because I never knew about this method of lining it up. Looking forward to the video on setting up the headstock as I have the same lathe as you.
Nice video and a good method of setting up a steady. One thought I had was that you set your tooling assuming you were using 3" diameter stock (based upon advertised diameter?), using 1.5" radius for your gauge block setup. If the raw stock is .005" over 3" your bottom rollers end up too high by about half that amount which may account for the discrepancy in your indicator reading between the chuck and steady. IMHO, setting with super accuracy using raw rolled, or extruded stock may get you close, as your setup was, but I wouldn't expect perfection. The result may be improved if you measured the OD of your stock with a micrometer prior to setting up your gauge so you would be working with a real world diameter rather than an advertised diameter, however given that most rolled or extruded stock isn't perfectly round and the outside has slight imperfections even that may not yield perfection. Thanks for taking time to demonstrate this method.
The results were very realistic based on the material and setup. The material was a bit oversize and the feeler technique is very sensitive. Minimal contact could actually be a thou or 2. The fact that the bar was dead straight on the front was a very good sign. Thanks for the comment.
I agree, stock probably wasn't exactly 3.000" and that is where your .005 came from. An okay method. I usually set the steady rest up right next to the chuck, then slide to where I need it. Run an indicator up and down the part to double check if final adjustments are needed.
Mr. Pieczynski, please understand, I am not being critical of your method, on the contrary it is a workable method. The only improvement I can possibly see would be to use a micrometer to check the actual size against the "advertised" size and set your gauge blocks accordingly. For example, you used gauge blocks to give you the radius of a 3" diameter round to set your tool, however if the actual true measurement was 3.005" the radius would have changed by .0025" and your bottom steady rest rollers would be set .0025" too high. In practice that tiny amount probably doesn't matter or cause the walking out of the chuck issue the exercise was designed to take care of, however it would make indicator readings at the steady rest end up the stock .0025" high in comparison to those taken at the chuck. In truth, if NASA type precision was desired, one would measure the rough stock diameter in 3 or 4 places on the diameter where the steady rollers are to be placed, average those diameters, set the steady up as you did using the average to determine the radius for your gauge blocks, machine an area wide enough for the rollers near the chuck, machine the area to the right of the steady to assure roundness, reverse the work in the chuck to allow the chuck to hold the round machined area, the rollers to run on a machined area and set up the steady based upon the diameter of that machined area. The question is: is all that really necessary? Some lathes come from the factory with the tailstock .001" high. A well used lathe will have wear on the ways, usually more toward the headstock, which causes tool height to change as the carriage travels toward headstock from the tailstock end, causing some small degree of taper if trying to cut a perfect cylinder. However, slight differences in height do not affect taper nearly as much as misaligned centers which move the work in direct proportion closer to or farther away from the cutting edge of the tool. When tool height varies in comparison to the centerline of the work the distance varies based solely on the change of the radius of the work in comparison to the cutting edge of the tool. In other words a tailstock center that is .001" toward the back or front of the lathe will induce more taper than a tailstock that is .001" too high. This one reason why fairly accurate work can still be obtained from a worn lathe. By the same token a steady with rollers set .001" too high will not have a tremendous affect on taper, although it will have some. While simple trig will provide the change in diameter over a given length when the tailstock center is moved closer or further way from the centerline (taper), someone with a better math background than mine can probably give you the theoretical change in diameter of a cylinder as the position of the radius of the work changes in relation to tool height as would be the case with a tailstock center or steady fingers too high. That difference will be far less than what occurs when centerline is moved closer to or away from the tool as is done for taper turning.
great video joe. like the set up bar. when i use my steady it is usually to support a piece of material that is realy to big for my lathe ! I usually have't enough room for my tailstock. Your method is ideal as it can be all done from the chuck end.
Thanks for posting these videos! I have been out of the machining industry for many years now and thinking about a return (sorry about the pun) the way you set your steady rest is not the way I did it when turning large material of 7"+ diameter material or larger. First my observation about your set-up, I like what you did with setting the rest to a set diameter but the material is probably a little oversized and that is why the arrow does not point back to the chuck, this will also put your center of the part higher than the center of your spindle, giving a little micro wobble. My favorite way to handle this is to set up exactly like you did then center drill the end then cut a true path for the rest with a center in the tailstock. Later if the drawing des not allow for a center hole in the end just face it off. I never trust the dimension of a stock diameter material for roundness or straightness. After you have a live center in the part and cut a path for your rest then adjust your rest with the lathe running. When you cut a center drill into the end of the part... if the rest is not set so that your part is not centered with the axis of the chuck then you will draw a circle on the end of the part.
It's worth checking the tolerances of even ground shafting, it can much farther off than you suspect. Usually you find this at three am when the mill is down & none of your bearings will fit.
hey guys the tailstock center is called a "revolving dead center" . a live center goes in the spindle,"live"meaning it has power to drive it. any center in a tailstock with or without bearings........is dead! fantastic vid and tech.
Hey Derek, when something is dead it don't revolve, like in a graveyard you know. "Live" and "Dead" are simply words to describe the center that turns and the one that doesn't. "Revolving dead center" is correct for the head-stock. Called 'em that all my life...ain't gonna change now.
Great video, but one thing to take into consideration is that if that aluminum bar stock wasn't exactly 3" in diameter, it would account for the variation in the indicator, especially running it across the top, and would also explain why the top roller didn't go back to its original position. It would be less magnified along the side, when you are, in effect, splitting the difference.
I think your videos are great Joe. One suggestion I might make, is to make certain that that the headstock is level and all other adjustments are relative to that
Mr. Pete just made a video using your technique. In my mind, whenever Mr. Pete says something good about you, you are indeed being upgraded to a legend by a legend. Thanks for sharing your experience sir! Consider yourself appreciated by this 70 year old retired fart.
The shop I work in has a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck for the tail stock that is how I have been doing it but I will also give this a try thanks for the great video.
I agree about the safety issue but this is one way to offset a bent shaft for spot turning for the steady rest. These are "catheads" and used only for that purpose along with the 4 JAW on the lathe spindle of course. Used Just for setup and alignment of the part stock, not for any kind of prolonged machining.
Joe, Can't resist, I did a lot of steady rest work when I worked as a machinist. The one thing you forgot to mention is some where in the description of a steady rest you should use of the word "round" should be included. If the rollers are not riding on a ROUND surface the part can walk out of the jaws (micro motion). Also if the OD is not round "out of roundness" will be duplicated on an ID. ie. hydraulic cylinder. Also to set up a "long" (5 ft. to 20 ft.) shaft it is possible to use an indicator mounted on a magnetic base set close to the chuck set to indicate deviation at a right angle to the chuck face. Again "micro motion". No deviation, steady rest is centered. Obviously there are lots of ways to accomplish the set up. Like you said 5 guys can think of 4 ways to do a job.
To be fair, Joe mentioned at the end that there are a lot of things that he didn't cover, including out-of-round material. He did completely cover his method for aligning the steady rest.
Hi Joe. Great video as usual. Back in my 'job shop' days, I had bosses that would say "what the h*ll are you doing?" lol. I think you're way is best and very precise. I have had good luck with getting the part located in the chuck and sliding the steadyrest as close as possible to the chuck and set the rollers to the work piece. Even though I have been in the business for over 40 years, I still pick up a few things from you. Thanks!
Hey Joe. Keep up the awesome videos. We all wish we had a guy like your to learn from in our home town. Im having some trouble with my new Grizzly lathe when drilling deep holes. The drill always seems to wander out the back side.
Chuck a short piece of scrap pipe or bar stock and machine to 3.000 and set steady rest roller bearings to machined stock very accurate and practical method not all jobbing shops have gauge blocks
Thanks for the video. For the head stock to tail stock alignment, could you use a gun bore laser in the head stock and a target on the tail stock. This was just a thought I had, I have no idea if it would work. As always great video. Have a day
I was thinking just machine a disk on the lathe then on the mill, (v groove)mill two lines 12 o'clock to 6 and 3 to 9 when laser is in the center you would get the laser to bounce on the intersecting points on the v groove. The lines could help with + /- on the alignment mount it to a morse taper that fits tail stock. Have a day
During your description of micro motion, I was expecting you to compare it to a rotary broach. Same mechanical action. I think it's worth saying explicitly that the steady can be set near the chuck, but moved towards the tailstock. I think it wasn't obvious the tailstock location had changed between the setup shots and 3" bar shots. As always, an informative, pleasant video. Thanks. Hope you and yours are staying safe.
Nice - again! Good advice - I hope to use it on my little LYLAK! .I have an oscillatory axle that I need to machine - it is long enough to need a steady.
Terry, if you have access to short pieces of stock you can chuck a short piece turn it to the diameter you need to set the steady rest, set the steady rest on that turn and slide the rest out to where you need it. If your part will fit into the spindle, same thing. For a longer part that requires steady resting, but not too long, you can chuck it up and set the rest using the runout of the slowly turning part, by adjusting in each roller individually, till both the rollers just touch, then simultaneously, each a quarter turn at a time the rest of the way, till part trues up. This is a bit tricky but it works. (No long sleeves or loose clothing while doing this.) (you can roughly verify that the shaft is centered by bringing the tailstock center up to the part, draw a circle on the shaft end if you wish.) In any event always mark the O.D. of the shaft up close to the jaws with a marker so you can occasionally look over to verify that it's not "cranking" out which is the old fashioned and (official) term for stock pulling out while using a steady rest.
my mentor taught me to turn a stub to the diameter of the work piece, bring the steady up under the turned stub, adjust the rollers to contact the stub, remove the stub, move the steady to your desired spot, put the work piece in, close the steady and get to work.
Hey, Joe. I'd like to see how you align the headstock to the ways. Here's, how I would do it, but there may be many other ways that I'm not aware of. 1) the bed of the lathe has to be set level in all directions. Bad foundation, bad results. 2) Get a known good straight piece of bar stock. Preferably a ground piece of 1" or larger by as long as you can get. 6 ft long would be good for my lathe. 3) insert a spider at the back side of the head stock at the left end of the lathe. 4) insert bar stock thru the Chuck, thru the spindle all the way back to the spider. snug up the Chuck on the bar stock. indicate the Chuck end. 5)indicate the spider end and tighten. tighten the Chuck end and indicate and adjust accordingly. Now, the bar is parallel to the spindle. 6) run an indicator left to right on the bar stock, on the front and top of the bar. also turn Chuck by hand to indicate that thy bar is not warped in any way. 7) if bar is running true, not warped, proceed to adjust head stock up, down, left and right. if the bar has some inconsistencies, take the average of the runout to find the true center of where the bar would be if it were exactly true. If there's an easier way I'd sure love to hear about it. I only really deduced how to do the head stock alignment, I was never taught. This would be a great lesson.
Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds fine as long as you can trust your bar not to sag. I have a thought on this topic I have never seen done. I am interested to try, and share it.
Joe Pieczynski You are correct about the sag, but when you are cutting you are 90 degrees off the potential sag. Even if the bar sag was .010 vertically, that would translate to under .001 horizontally where it matters. I like the idea of using a bore sight too, but there can be some inaccuracies if the tail stock is not centered where it should be. Another idea with the bore sight, that just occurred to me, would be to set up a rigid target on the carriage. check it close to the headstock, mark it, then roll out the carriage all the way to the right and recheck the target. Adjust the headstock and repeat. You'll probably have to do it a couple of times to narrow it down, because the laser point will move at the headstock every time you move it.
+Marcel LeMay My comment to "Let's Look Under The Old Girls Apron Part Eleven", posted by Keith Fenner, 25 Dec 2016 goes into a little more detail regarding the setting up of a laser to check the spindle bore trueness, wear/level of the ways and tailstock alignment that could prove useful. John Greenwood
Aristakas Thanks, I will check it out. I could have sworn I watched all those videos, but I must have missed that one. I never saw Keith do that with a laser.
Hi Joe, and thanks for your valuable time for passing your knowledge and skills to everyone. I’ am not a professional machinist but as a home DIYer I like to learn as much as I can. I have a small lathe “Emco Combact-8” with all its goodies and extras. I never used the steady or the follow rest. In coming days I’am planning a small project and I will have to turndown two steel bars (Φ24mm by 360mm). I admit hat this lesson saved me, and only Gods knows from what. I don’t have collet-chucks and as you know, the self-centering chucks are not so accurate. My question is; on 9:30 I see the grab-screw and I am wondering if I can use it as a center hole for my live-center attached on tail-stock so I can increase the concentricity with chuck. Thanks again.
I wondered the same thing about leveling a lathe built with more than 4 feet. I use a torque wrench, it usually takes a lot less torque to get them balanced where they all have even contact than you would suspect, fine thread adjusters would help a lot. One thing I learned from a planerman (Stetson-Ross wood planer) is that big pieces of iron can take days to settle in place after adjustment (that's what they teach at the factory set up classes) They get a rough level & than go back several times for fine adjustments until it settles into its happy place. The local temp swings between almost 110 during the summer & -30 during the winter, sometimes 100 degrees in one day So the local big machine shop is constantly leveling their machines seasonally & I suspect some days things just go very badly. Hope that helps.
Our production shop has a 1952 American Pacemaker 32 x 120 lathe which is dedicated to finish boring. We machine a 3.980" I.D. in a 30" long billet and aim for -.001" taper + .0005" (to suit a mating part which will be inserted later). We can stay within tolerance on the taper but it requires tweaking now and again, especially when the seasons change. Here's a tip: don't place an accurate lathe so that it bridges a floor joint, especially if one section of the floor is closer to an exterior wall than the other, because unequal expansion and contraction of the floor sections during the year will keep you busy checking and adjusting alignment.
Hi Joe, this is a good video to get your steady rest aligned. However you did have a problem with the accuracy of the setup when you ran your indicator along you work piece. The way I have made setups like this I attached an indicator to the end of my work piece and used that to indicate the the hole of the tail stock. by adjusting my rollers on the steady rest I get the indicator to zero and since I indicated my piece at the chuck end the ends of my piece are now in line with the center line of the lathe. Ive been a toolmaker over 30 years and this method hasn't failed me yet. Keep on making these videos. We need to get more young people involved in these trades. And everything can't be done on computers. Thanks.
Your method sounds fine as long as you don't have the part tight while you are bumping it with your rollers. That's a guaranteed way to turn a bend into your part.When you start resting material 10 inches in diameter 8 feet long, you are going to want a steady rest that is nearly perfect as you lower the crane. My part was perfectly parallel to the carriage travel in this video, and only deviated due to feeler contact and .003 material diameter discrepancies. I'd be willing to bet, once a true 3" diameter tracking cut was made and the part was turned around, there would be no error. By the way, my error translated to less than 1/10 of 1/4 of a 1 degree. Thats just over 1 minute out. Not too shabby. i hope these videos do inspire young guys. That would be great.
As John Mann commented, I think your raw stock diameter contributed to the uphill variation in your readings. You very precisely adjusted your setup bar to 3" OD but your stock was likely not precisely 3" - usually larger. I am also curious if you "quantified" the axial run out of your setup bar at the tip "as installed" since any run out would adversely affect the diameter the tip is swinging. I always enjoy your topics and presentation style!
Thank you. The bar was slightly oversize. I did the math on the .005 error over 12 inches and its less than 1/10 of 1/4 of 1 degree. Not bad for a steady rest setup. The error probably could have been reduced if I had used a feeler gage to set the roller gap to the setup tool. The nose radius on the arm and rollers can pass a couple thou contact pretty easily.
Don't forget to tighten the chuck to backplate screws. I have to be careful when I'm explaining stuff to someone not to forget something. Excellent way to set up a steady rest. If running rough tubing, having the steady rest set to the average diameter is often good enough with slower spindle speeds to be able to face the end of the tube and cut weld champhers. Be sure to have extra rollers when doing this class of work.. they take a beating and will crack if your steady rest is using bare ball bearings for rollers. If you have 2 steady rests you can machine tubing and shafting very much longer than the bed of your lathe. Remove the tail stock and drive the tubing with a spider held in the chuck and the end of the tubing near the head stock may be faced and champhered as required. Don't run the work at high speed. The second steady rest helps stabilize the work and is required once end caps and journal shafts have been welded into the tubing. All the journal turning work is done at the head stock end and the last operation is parting the work off and letting it coast to a stop in the two steady rests.
you have become one of my top 10 machining video mentors out in youtube
Thank you for your confidence. Much appreciated.
I get up in the morning, fix a cup of coffee and start one of your videos. My feet are swollen and my back is worn out but I get excited and say to myself I can do that. I have a reason to go up to my hobby shop and try something new. Thank You Joe for your time and the knowledge you pass on. I pray that God will Bless you with your business, your family and your TH-cam videos!
Thank you.
Enjoying your Videos. I've been a machinist for 40 years and I have taught the techniques you show many times to new machinists and apprentices. Good scoop. Keep it up. Unfortunately today with all the emphasis on CNC, very few machinists are taught the basic skills needed with a manual engine lathe.
I agree. Several years ago I noticed that many of the valuable skills and skill sets which many call "the old ways" were being lost due to advances in technology. It's like we are on a speeding train and the locomotive is scooping up technical advances, but since the train can only hold so much cargo, the conductor in the caboose is throwing overboard all of the old to make room for the new. But what happens when technology fails? So I started a youth outreach that is aimed at getting the inner city and suburban youth off of the streets and come together peacefully and we demonstrate how everyone benefits if they cooperate and work together and create a bright future for themselves regardless of what the economy may do. One aspect is to teach them the old ways starting with how to make their own hand tools and wood, metal, and machine tools from scrap. In the process the learn the skills that were used to start the industrial revolution and more. Some of the youth would like to take the knowledge and experience to other countries and help communities start local manufacturing and build a better life. So there is hope and nothing will be lost. I think this grassroots movement will have a positive effect on the USA too as these were the skills that had once made this country great.
Peace!
It is very simple to get your steadyrest dead on! Provided that your workpiece is round and smooth. Chuck the workpiece, position the steady maybe a few inches from the chuck. With the spindle off, adjust your two lower rollers to the work, tighten them in place. Loosen the work in the jaws a little and slide the steadyrest to where you will actually be using it, lock it down. Tighten the chuck jaws. Adjust the top wheel now too. At this point your steady is not set perfectly, but it is good enough for the next step. Turn on the spindle and drill a small center in the face if the work. Spindle off. Back off the three rollers a bit, support the workpiece with a live center. Again adjust the three rollers to the work. Now the steady is set correctly. There is another step to use for workpieces weighing hundreds of pounds or more which involves a cathead to center support the work, or drilling a center prior to loading the work.
Great video, I like your straightforward approach and clear explanations. Your videos will stand as valuable lessons to future generations of machinists, especially if manual work continues to be a dying art in younger generations. I'd like to see more about your lathe alignment techniques, I suspect they'll turn out to be more efficient than many others!
I learned something from every one of your vids Joe, but mostly your methods are teaching me to be more considered in my approach to each job. Thanks and keep em coming.
I got to say you R Da Man.
I too have been in this trade for over 30 but 26 was as a tool and die maker so I didn’t do ever day machining but I just recently changed jobs and Now I’m just a machinist ( not by no mean belittling the trade ) so now I’m tightening up my skills and I know when I see a true master man. Good job 👍 and thank you.
Lenny. 😜
Thanks Lenny.
An old machinist once told me he got into the trade because he didn't want to work too hard and he heard that being a machinist involved a "Bed" and "Steady Rest" and that was for him.
Love it.
I've been learning manual machines through videos for quite some time now. I'd love to get into it later, but for now it's a neutral, educational way to entertain myself and get away from all the politics in the air these days. I appreciate your videos for often showing methods that are either more accurate, safer, easier, or all three to methods I see used other places. I just had a younger friend ask where to start, and I sent him here first, because I believe he is least likely to get taught the wrong way first. Thank you for providing complete solutions to individual problems instead of just trying to add a single detail to methods listed elsewhere.
Thank you very much for this comment. I've only been at this for 6 months, and I try to pick engaging material. A string of CNC programming videos are in process. If you, or your friend have any specific questions, just ask. Regards.
Doing the world a great service with your uploads. Thank you
I always learn something from your videos. I like your analytical approach and the white board sketches.
An old timer told me years ago about truing a center drill on the end of a shaft after placing it in a properly adjusted steady rest, by "peeling the center" with your turning tool. It ensures that the previously drilled center is concentric with the new set up. It would of course mean that your carriage would have to be on the right side ( outside ) of the steady rest. By the way buddy, your instructional videos are top drawer! Nobody is ever too old to learn something.
Thanks Joe for all the info and great videos!. I've done a lot of prototyping in plastic. Never had to worry much about speeds and feeds beyond the obvious. Got into the live steam hobby (almost all steel, stainless steel and iron) and was rudely awakened by melted tool bits and extremely short tool life.
I would love to see a video (for a newbie) on speeds and feeds and how you go about figuring that out.
I've gone from a high precision environment to rough ass marine, still try to keep my precision machine skills even when customers often saying "it doesn't matter" and usually 0.020" clearance on bushes , this videos are super helpful and I find myself thinking back to them the when given certain jobs, that setup you have that there is genius, time ive messed about getting long parts bang on without walking out. These skills can be used as much on shop/repair jobs as on brand new parts. Long time sub, rare commentator, many thanks Joe
This is one of the best channels for getting to the nuts and bolts and things that aren't always found in books. You break the math down to where a peabrain like me can grasp it! I'd say I've learned more from you and Machining Moments in a few vids than from hours of watching Keith and Adam make chips. Definitely going to be making a gizmo to set up my steadies. And your possible discover about your headstock being misaligned because of the 4 levelling screws got me to thinking about a similar issue I'm having with my Sidney.
I cant thank you enough for you videos, please keep them coming!!!
It may have also been from the rollers and radius being too forgiving and allowing a few thou of contact to feel too smooth. Feeler gage may have helped that. The top roller was also upside down and I may have marked it incorrectly. The front of the bar was dead on.
What a great method. Also well done on the subscriptions, I have never seen a machining channel grow so rapidly.
A thought on the devise for setting the rollers - If you were going to make a tool specially for the purpose of setting steady rests you could make it with the projecting rod running at 45 degrees instead of 90. You could then use a micrometer to set the radius of the rod without needing to set slip gauges up. One micrometer anvil on the radiused tip and the other inline on the back side of that 3/4" bar. To find the projected radius it would just be micrometer reading minus 3/8". The grub screw would have to move from the end of the bar to the diameter.
Hope that makes sense. Cheers. Crispin
Hello Crispin. Always good to see a comment from you. Thanks for the well wishes on the subscriptions. The channel has a lot of momentum right now. I never expected anything like this, but I am interested to see where it goes. Your suggestion is right on. You would be limited to your range of measurement by the diameter of your main rod (rod pocket depth), but being able to set with a mic would be fast and easy. No big deal, just have several rods along with the main one like a depth mic set. Your 45 degree suggestion is interesting, but 90 would work with a non thru hole as well. Regards.
Hi. The idea of the 45 degrees is so that you can have a through hole. If you have a through hole at 90 degrees you have no where to put the mic anvil as you say. However at 45 the exit of the through hole is behind where the mic anvil would be. Have a look at one of my videos called 'machining cylinders part 2' where I show this idea with a line boring bar. Cheers
Excellent point. I was imagining positioning the mic inline with the small rod, not square to the big one. I like the way you think Crispin. you are a sharp guy.
Cant take credit for the original idea on the line boring bar, that came from Dave Ticehurst who sometimes comments on your videos. Thanks anyway!
Another useful method, if you have a well-aligned tailstock... Support the part in the steady using the pre-setting method Joe Pi just taught. Then drill a center hole with the tailstock. The center hole will be on center even if there is slight misalignment, because the center drill is stationary and the stock is moving. It will just drill oversize, but that does not matter. Then switch to a center in the tailstock and support the work on the center with the steady rest supports retracted. Then re-set the steady rest supports by touching the work. Now remove the live center and you're as close as you can get. You can also just indicate the center hole, rather than actually supporting it with a center. Thanks for the video, Joe!
Good comment. The whole trick is to get it close right up front. The secondary adjustment is very good. Thats usually after the tracking diameter fiasco. Thanks for the comment. After checking, it was a combination of stock size and roller contact that gave me that .005 rise. Still.....1/10 of 1/4 of 1 degree error on a raw setup is not too shabby. Thanks for watching.
What a simple and straightforward solution.
The technique I was taught was very similiar. But I served my apprenticeship in a large shop with a large amount of material on hand. If working with shafting steel cut a slug off along with the stock for the job. Chuck up the slug and indicate the slug to zero (we used four jaw chucks only). Set the steady rest to the slug and carry on. If no excess material was available machine a piece of stock (usually out of the scrap bin and set it to that). It got to the point I kept a set of slugs of the common sizes we used for pump shafts. The rebuilding of pumps for coolant t systems on machining lines was a constant job due to the coolant getting contaminated even with filtering.
I've done that for smaller work, but for 9" stainless its not practical.
@@joepie221
Well, there are limits.
@@joepie221
Before the Press Room at the facility I worked at was shut down every so often we would have to make a new clutch shaft. Depending on the press model these were between 5 to 7 ft long. With about a 1/2 hole drilled maybe 2/3rds of the way down. The shafts could be up to 8" in diameter. They definitely went on the table of the Boring Bar before they saw the lathe. Stay cool
I was hired and will start to work in a machine shop tomorrow. And I was looking for a video to refresh my knowledge and to get some tips. Your videos are great! Thanks lad!
Thanks for watching and for your subscription. Much appreciated.
72o, High Tide, and a "slight breeze" to keep the bugs away. Excellent content, as usual.
Thank you Joe for taking the time to make/edit/post your great videos. I've learned a lot & really really appreciate them. Subscribed.
Thanks Again & Best Regards,
Jon
Brilliant video Joe. I'm "self taught" thanks to guys like you.
Such a useful & accurate technique without the need for expensive tools: Lovely learning set into memory for when needed. Thank you!
Too many guys just wing it. This is too easy not to remember. Thanks for the comment.
Thank you for sharing your experience, slowly working my way through your videos. Every days a school day.
Before i would go jumping off a cliff panicking that my lathe was out of alignment i would repeat the process using some precision ground bar and take any variables out of the equation.
Joe your video has got me thinking of a dedicated tool with an adjustable rod that could be set with a depth mic and a parallel , maybe not as accurate as gauge blocks but for the average home shop machinists plenty good enough.
If you drill your hole at 45 degrees as suggested by Mr. Crispin, you can simply mic over the rod and feeler tip because there will be no inline through hole. just position the mic perpendicular to the main rod, not the feeler rod. Glad the video got you thinking.
Your videos make me wish I had taken shop class in school. If I wasn't too old to start a new career, I would want to become a machinist.
Hey Joe always enjoy watching your videos I'm retired now but just about everywhere I worked somehow I always got to do most of the maintenance on machines and dialing the headstock in to the ways was something that intimated most of the other machinists I adjusted a colchester that had .008 in 8in until I got it down to .0003 start to finish took 4hrs to do the job the machine was bought new was a professional model with a joy stick that the machinist before me wrecked into the chuck in hi speed rapid trans the foreman didn't think it could be fixed they were fighting the machine running it with all that taper because it was the biggest lathe in the shop and I guess they didn't trust anyone but colchester to fix it
Thanks Joe, I had watched this video a while back, and although it was interesting, I never really thought twice about it. I turned something about a week ago using a steady rest and it in fact, tried to walk out of the chuck. My first thought was that I had not tightened the chuck up, and that was that. Tonight I came across your video again and it all came clear. Thanks again, JB in San Diego.
Nice. Thanks for the message, I hope the video helped clear thing up a bit.
Joe - You knowledge and practical advice and insights are beyond compare.
Your methods and approaches are always so spot-on and practical e.g. V-Block for centering stock - this ...WOW!
Thank you for taking the time
true genius. This is the easy answer to my current setup problem. Thanks again. And thank you for keeping me company in the shop.
Any time!
Always interesting tips Joe. I usually use a 4 jaw chuck, unless I have access to an adjustable 3 or 6 jaw, for something like what you were showing and then a "cat head" on the outrigger end of the shaft...then with the steady rest positioned where I plan on using it I dial in the shaft, using the cat head, once zeroed I just bring the rollers up to light contact with the shaft. "cathead" for those not familiar is just basically a cup that goes over the end of the shaft, fairly close to the shafts dia. + an inch - nothing, with 4 set screws at 90 degree increments around the circumference (used for dialing the part in) and an end with a center drilled hole in it for the tailstock.
Thanks for making these videos Joe. I've watched quite a few of them now, tons of great tips. I really enjoy using your method of thread cutting. Thanks again!
This man is so knowledgeable, thorough and informative. I wish I lived in his area, I’d try and work for him for free part time just to learn from him. Subbed...Thx for the videos!👍👍
I appreciate that. Thanks.
Another great tip Joe, great workmanship, excellent Jack from over the pond UK
Joe, very interesting to see the way different machinists think. What I do is traverse the carriage with the indicator on the shaft both top & bottom and adjust to suit. That also works well if you have rectangular or square bar with a journal at one end, or same bar with a center sans steady rest.
But really, what I usually do is get the bar end adjusted close to the tailstock, start the lathe, touch the bar with the center drill and adjust by eye while testing with the center drill. It may sound crude, or unsafe but it really works well and is expedient. You can always shave the center hole or use a tailstock 4 jaw
This is great. It took me quite some time to get the rests finally behaving as they should. I could have sure used this lesson oh soooo many years ago. Thanks teach ! Definitely a time for patience and clear thinking.
Not only a great tip, but I learned about parts “walking” out of the chuck I’d the steady rest isn’t dead-true. Your vids are *so* informative and useful!
Thank you. I try to add value.
The info in your videos is amazing. Thanks for high quality, useful, and free info that improves my abilities
Glad you like them!
Joe, please do a tail stock alignment on a lathe . Thanks for all your great videos...
Well son of a gun, if that ain't the neatest trick! I've had the walking problem with no idea how to correct it until you showed us how. I also like the way you dialed that three jaw in; gotta fix mine like that. Keep 'em coming Joe.
Thanks.
This method is excellent for working on existing parts. If you have to reclaim, or do a rework like in the case of a weld repair, this is a good method.
Geezer Tips:
If you are working with a piece of stock, that will be turned down substantially, it saves time to chuck on the workpiece and get it to run true at the chuck and the steady rest. From there, lightly set your steady rest wheels, and then take a light facing cut on the end. Once you have the center faced, gently drill a center hole. Back off of your steady rest wheels and then use a center in your tailstock to hold the piece. Move the steady rest ahead of where you want it to ride, and cut a "witness" area. This will run true to center line.
Once you have that, run the part slowly with the center still installed, run your steady rest wheels in until contact, and then proceed...
If you are pressed for time, you can measure the amount of jaw play that Joe talked about, by mounting an indicator on the face of the chuck, setting your steady rest wheels as close as possible, and then rolling the chuck over by hand. If you are not concentric between the chuck and steady rest you will see movement at the indicator. You can adjust at the steady rest to correct, and then back at the chuck, until you see no movement on the indicator. I did lots of rework on large heavy shafts, this way.
Once you have everything set up.... Go find a piece of cardboard. Cut a hole in it about the size of your workpiece. Cut a slit to one side, all the way through, and then work it around your workpiece and tape it to the face of your steady rest, in the direction towards where you're cutting.
Chips love to get in between the work and the rollers, and either mar your part, or blow your wheel bearing. Not to mention, having to clean out your drawers when you see/hear it happen.
Last Geezer tip... If you're steady rest is worn, particularly at the hinge pin for the top, set your lowers as shown.But when you go to set the top wheel, back off of it and tighten the top nut, and then back off of it, just until loose. Then feed the top wheel in, like Joe said, but when it contacts, let it run just a bit, to find the true center of the rest. On some of the really old ones, you can actually see the top frame of the steady rest move.
Once it seats in, back off the wheel again, tighten the top nut, and then feed the top wheel in as you would otherwise...
Hope these are helpful....
The cardboard shield idea is a good one. One bad chip in the roller track and it can get bad real quick. I had rubber sheets I used for that with small 'X' cuts to go over the lock screw heads and keep the shield from rotating.
The shops I worked for, were never that fancy... lol.
Just caught your comment. I often run a very old and loved 25' bed Lodge & Shipley with a 36" swing and I get stuck with the long shafts. We have virtually identical setup techniques (including the cardboard).
Thanks, Joe. Good stuff. I get as much from your brief comments as I do from the main presentation. Like the importance of a heavy lathe's leveling screws. Haven't given it a thought for years, but you're right. Weight can torque the whole chassis if they're out, just a little maybe, but it can translate into a lot on long workpieces. How many lathes have guys given up on because they could never get them to run true? I also appreciate that you get to the point. I don't have to watch for an hour to get 5 minutes worth of information. Keep it coming. Good channel.
I'm not big on fluff and animations. Once in a while I may fool around, but i like to get to it. Thanks for watching.
Thank you Joe, for your educational videos on Engineering and machining.
I think I must be low tech. Of course I have a small south bend and seldom do anything with a lot of weight but most often I simply indicate the end of the stock that then set the fingers to the work. I've had great success doing this although I will admit, I have never machined stock between the rest and the chuck. Seeing as how my 3 jaw is not adjustable I'm sure I would end up with a slight taper. I can't imagine walking stock out of the chuck. It seems like you'd have to be out a long ways to make that happen. I probably won't use this information but in general I have learned a lot from your videos!
Thanks.
Handy approach Joe. thanks for covering this. I hope to see a follow up . After our brief exchange of messages I went ahead on my project and managed fine with the steady rest on the bull gear shafts was making , there is some video on my channel showing how I indicated it all in. All the best. Mat
Maybe add a tailstock alignment video if you haven't already. I would be especially interested in any ideas on re aligning a tailstock that has dropped below center due to wear on an older lathe. Thanks, keep up the good work.
Thanks Joe! That is one of the best way I've seen to align a steady rest.
It gets you right there on the first try. My .005 rise was the diameter of the bar and about .001 too much contact on the initial setup. I checked after the video.
Dang it, what a great teaching video for old & young alike. Being on the later end,,this made life simple, Thx Joe, Bear
nice video, Have you ever used a mag base magged to the chuck jaw face and then extend the reach towards the steady rest , put the indicator on the shaft pointing to center of shaft, now rotate chuck by hand and watch indicator, indicator will show you run out if its not aligned, you can then adjust steady rest to zero and true to the chuck, just have to have a good mag base and stem , otherwise you could see some droop with the extended reach with indicator depending what position the chuck is at. depending on the alignment of the ways to the head stock, (and 72 degrees outside ) we were taught in the Navy to turn a Dia and then slide up steady rest towards chuck and then adjust rollers, then move steady rest back to where needed . seems that would work in a perfect world but seems it always needed tweaked in to keep part from trying to cork screw out of the chuck.. I like the sound effects at 3:26 .Thanks again , you always have great videos with good instructions Rondal Nannie
Another very informative video. A big thanks Joe from Scotland
Thank you.
This is very nice of you.
Again people liké you continue to lightning thé others with their knowledge and contribute to progress thé humanity.
You make me happy with your vidéo.
Thanks a lot.
I wish you thé b'est of life.
Thank you very much. Same to you.
Great explanation how the job can walk out. On large diameter I simply scribe the centre and bring the point of the tailstock and set.
I generally just put a short piece in the chuck, turn it to the same dia as the work piece and set the steady rest very close to the chuck. Then I move the steady rest out and put the work piece in the preset Steady Rest. Please let me know what you think. I really appreciate your videos, it helps a hobby machinist like me.
Thats a fine way to do it. It gets a little impractical when the parts get bigger.
Great videos, you have a gift to teach. Very helpful for an old guy in a career change.
Lathe leveling and tailstock zeroing vids for your list would be great. Thanks Joe
Thanks Joe. I enjoy your help full videos. You have the professional equipment, but your techniques scale down to our home shops.
Great tip Joe! For the verification of the machine alignment you could reference Connelly Machine Tool Reconditioning " book. It's an awesome reference book for rebuilding but has all the testing to check alignments before and after reconditioning. Take Care
This is great! I've been fighting away trying to line up the steady rest and accepting reduced accuracy because I never knew about this method of lining it up. Looking forward to the video on setting up the headstock as I have the same lathe as you.
This is a very sensitive way of setting the rollers, the contact must be very minimal.
Nice video and a good method of setting up a steady. One thought I had was that you set your tooling assuming you were using 3" diameter stock (based upon advertised diameter?), using 1.5" radius for your gauge block setup. If the raw stock is .005" over 3" your bottom rollers end up too high by about half that amount which may account for the discrepancy in your indicator reading between the chuck and steady. IMHO, setting with super accuracy using raw rolled, or extruded stock may get you close, as your setup was, but I wouldn't expect perfection. The result may be improved if you measured the OD of your stock with a micrometer prior to setting up your gauge so you would be working with a real world diameter rather than an advertised diameter, however given that most rolled or extruded stock isn't perfectly round and the outside has slight imperfections even that may not yield perfection.
Thanks for taking time to demonstrate this method.
The results were very realistic based on the material and setup. The material was a bit oversize and the feeler technique is very sensitive. Minimal contact could actually be a thou or 2. The fact that the bar was dead straight on the front was a very good sign. Thanks for the comment.
I agree, stock probably wasn't exactly 3.000" and that is where your .005 came from. An okay method. I usually set the steady rest up right next to the chuck, then slide to where I need it. Run an indicator up and down the part to double check if final adjustments are needed.
How do you set the diameter?
Mr. Pieczynski, please understand, I am not being critical of your method, on the contrary it is a workable method. The only improvement I can possibly see would be to use a micrometer to check the actual size against the "advertised" size and set your gauge blocks accordingly. For example, you used gauge blocks to give you the radius of a 3" diameter round to set your tool, however if the actual true measurement was 3.005" the radius would have changed by .0025" and your bottom steady rest rollers would be set .0025" too high. In practice that tiny amount probably doesn't matter or cause the walking out of the chuck issue the exercise was designed to take care of, however it would make indicator readings at the steady rest end up the stock .0025" high in comparison to those taken at the chuck.
In truth, if NASA type precision was desired, one would measure the rough stock diameter in 3 or 4 places on the diameter where the steady rollers are to be placed, average those diameters, set the steady up as you did using the average to determine the radius for your gauge blocks, machine an area wide enough for the rollers near the chuck, machine the area to the right of the steady to assure roundness, reverse the work in the chuck to allow the chuck to hold the round machined area, the rollers to run on a machined area and set up the steady based upon the diameter of that machined area.
The question is: is all that really necessary? Some lathes come from the factory with the tailstock .001" high. A well used lathe will have wear on the ways, usually more toward the headstock, which causes tool height to change as the carriage travels toward headstock from the tailstock end, causing some small degree of taper if trying to cut a perfect cylinder. However, slight differences in height do not affect taper nearly as much as misaligned centers which move the work in direct proportion closer to or farther away from the cutting edge of the tool. When tool height varies in comparison to the centerline of the work the distance varies based solely on the change of the radius of the work in comparison to the cutting edge of the tool. In other words a tailstock center that is .001" toward the back or front of the lathe will induce more taper than a tailstock that is .001" too high. This one reason why fairly accurate work can still be obtained from a worn lathe. By the same token a steady with rollers set .001" too high will not have a tremendous affect on taper, although it will have some.
While simple trig will provide the change in diameter over a given length when the tailstock center is moved closer or further way from the centerline (taper), someone with a better math background than mine can probably give you the theoretical change in diameter of a cylinder as the position of the radius of the work changes in relation to tool height as would be the case with a tailstock center or steady fingers too high. That difference will be far less than what occurs when centerline is moved closer to or away from the tool as is done for taper turning.
Great Tip! A lot of set techniques is simply exposure. Thanks for the exposure.
They all seem very simple once you see them.
Planets aligned ... very important...great job on discussing how the rest can be "not your friend"
great video joe. like the set up bar. when i use my steady it is usually to support a piece of material that is realy to big for my lathe ! I usually have't enough room for my tailstock. Your method is ideal as it can be all done from the chuck end.
Absolute Money with this demonstration Joe, Thank You!!!!
after seeing the solution -- its easy saying " man, thats easy " ;) -- Thanks for great content and great explanations --
Since you asked: if interested type:
That Old Bob #10 verifying tailstock alinement.
I am enjoying your videos, they are to the point.
Excellent approach Joe - that was a gem. :)
Thank God for TH-cam giving us amateur hobby machinists a fighting chance of success! Lol And as always thank you Joe! 🤙
Thanks for posting these videos! I have been out of the machining industry for many years now and thinking about a return (sorry about the pun) the way you set your steady rest is not the way I did it when turning large material of 7"+ diameter material or larger. First my observation about your set-up, I like what you did with setting the rest to a set diameter but the material is probably a little oversized and that is why the arrow does not point back to the chuck, this will also put your center of the part higher than the center of your spindle, giving a little micro wobble. My favorite way to handle this is to set up exactly like you did then center drill the end then cut a true path for the rest with a center in the tailstock. Later if the drawing des not allow for a center hole in the end just face it off. I never trust the dimension of a stock diameter material for roundness or straightness. After you have a live center in the part and cut a path for your rest then adjust your rest with the lathe running.
When you cut a center drill into the end of the part... if the rest is not set so that your part is not centered with the axis of the chuck then you will draw a circle on the end of the part.
Once I cut my tracking diameter and reset the bar, it ran dead on. I did not have to change anything from the initial setup on the steady.
It's worth checking the tolerances of even ground shafting, it can much farther off than you suspect. Usually you find this at three am when the mill is down & none of your bearings will fit.
Hello from New Zealand. You produce such great, well explained content.
p.s. Jackie loves you.
She tells me all the time. Shes my first born daughter.
hey guys the tailstock center is called a "revolving dead center" . a live center goes in the spindle,"live"meaning it has power to drive it. any center in a tailstock with or without bearings........is dead! fantastic vid and tech.
Hey Derek, when something is dead it don't revolve, like in a graveyard you know. "Live" and "Dead" are simply words to describe the center that turns and the one that doesn't. "Revolving dead center" is correct for the head-stock. Called 'em that all my life...ain't gonna change now.
Great video, but one thing to take into consideration is that if that aluminum bar stock wasn't exactly 3" in diameter, it would account for the variation in the indicator, especially running it across the top, and would also explain why the top roller didn't go back to its original position. It would be less magnified along the side, when you are, in effect, splitting the difference.
Thank you Mr. Pieczynski! You make machining life so much easier!
thats the plan my friend. Stay tuned. ( become a subscriber )
I like it. While it's not the way I do it, I still like your way. Always more than one way to do pretty much everything in the shop!
Thats for sure.
Good trick, I’ll be doing this tomorrow. Never ran a steady rest. I’ll be putting internal threads in 4 1/2 x 28” long schedule 160 pipe, thank you
This will get you extremely close.
I think your videos are great Joe. One suggestion I might make, is to make certain that that the headstock is level and all other adjustments are relative to that
Mr. Pete just made a video using your technique. In my mind, whenever Mr. Pete says something good about you, you are indeed being upgraded to a legend by a legend. Thanks for sharing your experience sir! Consider yourself appreciated by this 70 year old retired fart.
Thanks for the heads up. I am glad he liked the technique enough to use and share it.
The shop I work in has a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck for the tail stock that is how I have been doing it but I will also give this a try thanks for the great video.
That is the completely wrong and dangerous way how to hold material steady. They put a chuck in the tail stock???
You haven't seen a tailstock mounted chuck before? It is basically a chuck on bearings, allows holding awkward parts without a center hole.
I agree about the safety issue but this is one way to offset a bent shaft for spot turning for the steady rest.
These are "catheads" and used only for that purpose along with the 4 JAW on the lathe spindle of course.
Used Just for setup and alignment of the part stock, not for any kind of prolonged machining.
Cool technique. And that's a funky handle on your allen wrench!
I made that handle 30+ years ago. It helped when adjusting really big chucks. And I can spin it on my palm like a drummer when I get bored!
Joe,
Can't resist, I did a lot of steady rest work when I worked as a machinist. The one thing you forgot to mention is some where in the description of a steady rest you should use of the word "round" should be included. If the rollers are not riding on a ROUND surface the part can walk out of the jaws (micro motion). Also if the OD is not round "out of roundness" will be duplicated on an ID. ie. hydraulic cylinder.
Also to set up a "long" (5 ft. to 20 ft.) shaft it is possible to use an indicator mounted on a magnetic base set close to the chuck set to indicate deviation at a right angle to the chuck face. Again "micro motion". No deviation, steady rest is centered. Obviously there are lots of ways to accomplish the set up. Like you said 5 guys can think of 4 ways to do a job.
I thought I said 'Tracking diameter". That implied an established or turned round as you suggest. if not, there maybe bigger problems with the lathe.
To be fair, Joe mentioned at the end that there are a lot of things that he didn't cover, including out-of-round material. He did completely cover his method for aligning the steady rest.
That’s a sweet handle you have on your Allen wrench there. 👍
Hi Joe. Great video as usual. Back in my 'job shop' days, I had bosses that would say "what the h*ll are you doing?" lol. I think you're way is best and very precise. I have had good luck with getting the part located in the chuck and sliding the steadyrest as close as possible to the chuck and set the rollers to the work piece. Even though I have been in the business for over 40 years, I still pick up a few things from you. Thanks!
Hey Joe. Keep up the awesome videos. We all wish we had a guy like your to learn from in our home town. Im having some trouble with my new Grizzly lathe when drilling deep holes. The drill always seems to wander out the back side.
Deep holes should be done 50/50 if you can. Make sure you start straight on deep holes and keep the drill sharp. Take your time.
I would imagine your rough stock would be slightly oversize. maybe causing the .oo5 high at the steady. thanks for the great tip.
Chuck a short piece of scrap pipe or bar stock and machine to 3.000 and set steady rest roller bearings to machined stock very accurate and practical method not all jobbing shops have gauge blocks
Thanks for the video. For the head stock to tail stock alignment, could you use a gun bore laser in the head stock and a target on the tail stock. This was just a thought I had, I have no idea if it would work.
As always great video.
Have a day
I actually thought of a laser, but wasn't sure about the kind of target to use. Good call.
I was thinking just machine a disk on the lathe then on the mill, (v groove)mill two lines 12 o'clock to 6 and 3 to 9 when laser is in the center you would get the laser to bounce on the intersecting points on the v groove. The lines could help with + /- on the alignment mount it to a morse taper that fits tail stock.
Have a day
During your description of micro motion, I was expecting you to compare it to a rotary broach. Same mechanical action.
I think it's worth saying explicitly that the steady can be set near the chuck, but moved towards the tailstock. I think it wasn't obvious the tailstock location had changed between the setup shots and 3" bar shots.
As always, an informative, pleasant video. Thanks. Hope you and yours are staying safe.
We are well. Same to you.
Nice - again! Good advice - I hope to use it on my little LYLAK! .I have an oscillatory axle that I need to machine - it is long enough to need a steady.
REALLY like your videos. Very cool things you do.
Thanks. Everyday in my shop is usually different. I enjoy my work.
Thanks for that i have had trouble setting up my steady rest for ever, will try your way next time .
Terry, if you have access to short pieces of stock you can chuck a short piece turn it to the diameter you need to set the steady rest, set the steady rest on that turn and slide the rest out to where you need it. If your part will fit into the spindle, same thing.
For a longer part that requires steady resting, but not too long, you can chuck it up and set the rest using the runout of the slowly turning part, by adjusting in each roller individually, till both the rollers just touch, then simultaneously, each a quarter turn at a time the rest of the way, till part trues up. This is a bit tricky but it works.
(No long sleeves or loose clothing while doing this.)
(you can roughly verify that the shaft is centered by bringing the tailstock center up to the part, draw a circle on the shaft end if you wish.) In any event always mark the O.D. of the shaft up close to the jaws with a marker so you can occasionally look over to verify that it's not "cranking" out which is the old fashioned and (official) term for stock pulling out while using a steady rest.
Radiation---Thanks for the info.
my mentor taught me to turn a stub to the diameter of the work piece, bring the steady up under the turned stub, adjust the rollers to contact the stub, remove the stub, move the steady to your desired spot, put the work piece in, close the steady and get to work.
Solid method for sure. Little tougher for larger stock.
Tom Maddock that's how i normally do it . Or you can tell if steady is not aligned with a centre drill as it cuts an oversize hole :)
Tom Maddock that is the way that I was taught also and it has always worked well for me. As close to the chuck
as you can get.
Hey, Joe. I'd like to see how you align the headstock to the ways. Here's, how I would do it, but there may be many other ways that I'm not aware of.
1) the bed of the lathe has to be set level in all directions. Bad foundation, bad results.
2) Get a known good straight piece of bar stock. Preferably a ground piece of 1" or larger by as long as you can get. 6 ft long would be good for my lathe.
3) insert a spider at the back side of the head stock at the left end of the lathe.
4) insert bar stock thru the Chuck, thru the spindle all the way back to the spider. snug up the Chuck on the bar stock. indicate the Chuck end.
5)indicate the spider end and tighten. tighten the Chuck end and indicate and adjust accordingly. Now, the bar is parallel to the spindle.
6) run an indicator left to right on the bar stock, on the front and top of the bar. also turn Chuck by hand to indicate that thy bar is not warped in any way.
7) if bar is running true, not warped, proceed to adjust head stock up, down, left and right. if the bar has some inconsistencies, take the average of the runout to find the true center of where the bar would be if it were exactly true.
If there's an easier way I'd sure love to hear about it. I only really deduced how to do the head stock alignment, I was never taught. This would be a great lesson.
Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds fine as long as you can trust your bar not to sag. I have a thought on this topic I have never seen done. I am interested to try, and share it.
Joe Pieczynski You are correct about the sag, but when you are cutting you are 90 degrees off the potential sag. Even if the bar sag was .010 vertically, that would translate to under .001 horizontally where it matters.
I like the idea of using a bore sight too, but there can be some inaccuracies if the tail stock is not centered where it should be. Another idea with the bore sight, that just occurred to me, would be to set up a rigid target on the carriage. check it close to the headstock, mark it, then roll out the carriage all the way to the right and recheck the target. Adjust the headstock and repeat. You'll probably have to do it a couple of times to narrow it down, because the laser point will move at the headstock every time you move it.
+Marcel LeMay
My comment to "Let's Look Under The Old Girls Apron Part Eleven", posted by Keith Fenner, 25 Dec 2016 goes into a little more detail regarding the setting up of a laser to check the spindle bore trueness, wear/level of the ways and tailstock alignment that could prove useful.
John Greenwood
Aristakas Thanks, I will check it out. I could have sworn I watched all those videos, but I must have missed that one. I never saw Keith do that with a laser.
I always love you videos.... because Jackie loves me!
Hi Joe, and thanks for your valuable time for passing your knowledge and skills to everyone. I’ am not a professional machinist but as a home DIYer I like to learn as much as I can. I have a small lathe “Emco Combact-8” with all its goodies and extras. I never used the steady or the follow rest. In coming days I’am planning a small project and I will have to turndown two steel bars (Φ24mm by 360mm). I admit hat this lesson saved me, and only Gods knows from what. I don’t have collet-chucks and as you know, the self-centering chucks are not so accurate. My question is; on 9:30 I see the grab-screw and I am wondering if I can use it as a center hole for my live-center attached on tail-stock so I can increase the concentricity with chuck.
Thanks again.
this is very true. you got to get the geometry right from the start. just wish we had these videos when i was a boy.
Me too.
As usual very informative and easily translated to my small lathe, as a beginner. Thanks.
I wondered the same thing about leveling a lathe built with more than 4 feet. I use a torque wrench, it usually takes a lot less torque to get them balanced where they all have even contact than you would suspect, fine thread adjusters would help a lot.
One thing I learned from a planerman (Stetson-Ross wood planer) is that big pieces of iron can take days to settle in place after adjustment (that's what they teach at the factory set up classes) They get a rough level & than go back several times for fine adjustments until it settles into its happy place.
The local temp swings between almost 110 during the summer & -30 during the winter, sometimes 100 degrees in one day So the local big machine shop is constantly leveling their machines seasonally & I suspect some days things just go very badly.
Hope that helps.
Our production shop has a 1952 American Pacemaker 32 x 120 lathe which is dedicated to finish boring. We machine a 3.980" I.D. in a 30" long billet and aim for -.001" taper + .0005" (to suit a mating part which will be inserted later).
We can stay within tolerance on the taper but it requires tweaking now and again, especially when the seasons change.
Here's a tip: don't place an accurate lathe so that it bridges a floor joint, especially if one section of the floor is closer to an exterior wall than the other, because unequal expansion and contraction of the floor sections during the year will keep you busy checking and adjusting alignment.
Hi Joe, this is a good video to get your steady rest aligned. However you did have a problem with the accuracy of the setup when you ran your indicator along you work piece. The way I have made setups like this I attached an indicator to the end of my work piece and used that to indicate the the hole of the tail stock. by adjusting my rollers on the steady rest I get the indicator to zero and since I indicated my piece at the chuck end the ends of my piece are now in line with the center line of the lathe. Ive been a toolmaker over 30 years and this method hasn't failed me yet. Keep on making these videos. We need to get more young people involved in these trades. And everything can't be done on computers. Thanks.
Your method sounds fine as long as you don't have the part tight while you are bumping it with your rollers. That's a guaranteed way to turn a bend into your part.When you start resting material 10 inches in diameter 8 feet long, you are going to want a steady rest that is nearly perfect as you lower the crane. My part was perfectly parallel to the carriage travel in this video, and only deviated due to feeler contact and .003 material diameter discrepancies. I'd be willing to bet, once a true 3" diameter tracking cut was made and the part was turned around, there would be no error. By the way, my error translated to less than 1/10 of 1/4 of a 1 degree. Thats just over 1 minute out. Not too shabby. i hope these videos do inspire young guys. That would be great.
As John Mann commented, I think your raw stock diameter contributed to the uphill variation in your readings. You very precisely adjusted your setup bar to 3" OD but your stock was likely not precisely 3" - usually larger. I am also curious if you "quantified" the axial run out of your setup bar at the tip "as installed" since any run out would adversely affect the diameter the tip is swinging.
I always enjoy your topics and presentation style!
Thank you. The bar was slightly oversize. I did the math on the .005 error over 12 inches and its less than 1/10 of 1/4 of 1 degree. Not bad for a steady rest setup. The error probably could have been reduced if I had used a feeler gage to set the roller gap to the setup tool. The nose radius on the arm and rollers can pass a couple thou contact pretty easily.
Don't forget to tighten the chuck to backplate screws. I have to be careful when I'm explaining stuff to someone not to forget something.
Excellent way to set up a steady rest. If running rough tubing, having the steady rest set to the average diameter is often good enough with slower spindle speeds to be able to face the end of the tube and cut weld champhers. Be sure to have extra rollers when doing this class of work.. they take a beating and will crack if your steady rest is using bare ball bearings for rollers.
If you have 2 steady rests you can machine tubing and shafting very much longer than the bed of your lathe. Remove the tail stock and drive the tubing with a spider held in the chuck and the end of the tubing near the head stock may be faced and champhered as required. Don't run the work at high speed. The second steady rest helps stabilize the work and is required once end caps and journal shafts have been welded into the tubing. All the journal turning work is done at the head stock end and the last operation is parting the work off and letting it coast to a stop in the two steady rests.
Interesting technique. Will try it my next similar setup. Thanks for sharing.
It will get you practically dead on first try. Read some of the comments and look for Mr Crispins feedback. He had some interesting observations.