Schematic Capture and PCB design with Diptrace
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- This video introduces DipTrace Schematic Capture and PCB design Software. There is a free version that can be downloaded. I present the software and what it can do. I'll make a series to cover how to use this software.
I was provided my copy for free but wasn't paid to do this video.
Link to DipTrace software download: diptrace.com/download/downloa...
Thermal camera (I think this replaced mine): amzn.to/2R6Oesl
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Diptrace is the best for me .Since 2008, when I found out about it, it became the main program for pcb design
Thank you! That is a great reference;) Any tricks we should know?
Do you do the whole schematic or bang out the tracks for diy ones?
@@jstro-hobbytech I work with diptrace and I when stuck in a problem ask on diptrace forum
I tried the free trial and eventually purchased the full version. No regrets!
Thanks Bill - nice to hear this. How do you like the auto-route?
@@KissAnalog This autorouter kicks ass, IMO.
Have been using DT now for years. It is by far the best tool out there for the $. A true standalone application! Awesome product.. everything you'll ever need. Excellent quality.
Great vid btw.
Thank you for that great feedback from someone who has used it! Much appreciated!
Looks fantastic... Have been re-spinning a single sided board for a tube/transistor very popular, reasonably valuable, early 1980s Vintage HiFi amp that was all burned up. So far i have spent almost 3 months, some entire days to the point of making new resistor symbols & special obsolete footprints for the old JFETs & transistors. Then when i manual routed in the program is was using, set up for single-side it just totally freaked out whenever i tried to force a star ground.... (Net alarms everywhere)! Essentially i am now back at the start having to totally begin again starting with drawing a back-engineered weird but truthful schematic to make sure i have the star grounds & star +/- power rails happen!!!.... Of course the original PCB was all hand laid out! i might use Diptrace this time so thanks a million Andy for showing us its out there!
Thank you for this great feedback! What tool were you using? It will be great to hear what you think. I’ll do more videos on DipTrace, but also KiCad to actually see the differences. But, in experimenting a bit with both, DipTrace seems like the more professional powerful program. No one would buy it if KiCad was simply better. Open source is a great idea but free versions of a more powerful program might be the better way. I’m not positive this is the case yet with KiCad and DipTrace, but I’ll find out;)
@@KissAnalog i have become sort of hooked into the EasyEDA.com Cloud thing. I've had a few boards made their system now as a result, just fairly small analog projects for power supply (Vicom module) or a circuit that works with my Digilent Analog Discovery 2 unit as a LCR meter!.... I so want to do many more but.... making time is the killer!
Net alarms from star ground why? Which EDA software? If the ground is all one net, why wouldn't it let you route it any way you want?
@@SianaGearz i was wondering that too and i checked that i set up for single side without any earth planes etc.... So far now that i redrew the entire schematic to represent those parts that come to a specific same single star point the nets are behaving in the way i am thinking & things are much easier to handle. I assume the trouble came from the s/w routeing algorithm & the Design Rule setups for as example especially clearance..... maybe. My original schematic was back engineered off the original PCB but i did not put down any specific star networks, rather left it like a daisy chain of connections to a common line, Either way i learned something at least.
HI Eddie, nice video. Thanks for sharing your adroitness.
Thanks for your support!
Great review/walkthrough
Great program 👍
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍😀
Thank you! It does seem to be very nice - but I’ve only played around a bit on it. I’ll start using it right away on a new project for the channel, so I’ll do more follow-up videos as time goes on;)
A real breakthrough in my understanding of DipTrace was to realize there are four separate, individual programs. I made a label I keep on my PC. 1. Schematic Capture. 2.Component editor for making schematic symbols. 3. Pattern Editor for making PWB footprints. 4. PCB Layout. Until this sank into my thick head, I really struggled with DipTrace.
Thanks Ken! That’s a great trick to help keep it straight;)
great stuff Eddie
Thank you! I appreciate you!!
Diptrace is super good!! havn't tried it yet...500 pins is lots of electronics!! thank's Eddy!! look'n good!!
It does look like an easy to use tool. I’ll start working with it and do more videos;) Thanks for the feedback!
I started off with a paid version of Eagle - 15 years ago - did not like it - hard to add new components - restrictive. After a lot research - I decided on Diptrace 12 years ago. I have a paid version. I would highly recommend it. Adding component Pad Layouts is one of a designer's biggest challenges (not found in the default library) and Diptrace makes it very easy.
Thanks Joe! It did look easy to learn and reminds me of Altium which I thought was so intuitive, so I liked it right away after playing with it for just minutes;)
Great video and good advice . Might want to review pulsonix from uk and give comments .
Wow - thanks for the tip! Looks great - and I had no idea of them;) They limit their free version to 100 pins, which can still be useful, but I wonder what other limits there are - like number of layers (although who wants a bunch of layers with just 100 pins;) I'll check them out - I bet it is an awesome tool from what I can see.
@@KissAnalog GO ahead and download the software. BOB from UK will contact you . Very affordable and easy to use . Give your review alter using it . Cheers
Does is have delay matching capabilities like altium? Seems to be the next best software with a far more honbiest friendly price; a few hundred to just under a thousand versus an insanely steep subscription/5 figures.
Great Intro to Dip Trace.Did try it a while ago and have also tried kicad but not enough to form an opinion over which one is best.I'd be interested in your comparisons with kicad,particularly in the area of avoiding beginner mistakes as I am by no means a seasoned professional.I've only done a couple of boards and that was about 10 years ago. At the time I used a little package called ''Electronic Design Studio'' by Quickroute. Amazing how much has changed since then.
I'd also be interested to see you do some pcb layouts with any tips on how to avoid ground loops etc.
Great channnel.
Thanks for this feedback! I've worked with a number of programs and from what I've learned from watching others on YT that obviously are just learning themselves and making mistakes - is that KiCad seems to allow this to happen more often. It looks like a great tool, but I think DipTrace looks to be more powerful and has the more regimented process control which I've found to be standard in the industry. I'll work with both to see what I think as at this point I have only dabbled with both. Just my first impressions;)
I've used both... DipT is far superior. Will never touch KiC again.
Awesome software review! You have a good taste. I have downloaded KiCad and started learning but I don't like the white theme. The UI dark theme from diptrace looks so sexy and easy on the eyes.
Thank you! Much appreciated! I wonder if the themes are adjustable...I haven't gotten that far;)
You can definitely change the theme in kicad. It might only be in nightly but kicad 6 is slated to come out in the next few months.
KiCad has a lot of great-looking user-created custom themes and 'dark modes' available on GitHub. I've seen lots of pictures but never tried one, they're supposed to install similar to a normal KiCad plugin and work on a current release without needing a beta or nightly version. As leavenember mentioned, an official dark theme is supposed to be the works for an upcoming release.
Great introductory video. Are you still planning on producing a series of Diptrace videos?
Cheers
Yes - thanks for the question! I do intend to do this - and just got distracted. I'll get back onto this very soon:)
Thanks Eddie.
Glad to see they also sell it, nothing worse then investing time in a program that stops being supported. Investment time is a biggie for me. Nothing worse then learning a program and then finding you can't live with it after you started sending boards out, etc. The other thing I want is simulation, that's a game changer for me. Some people love Eagle but I found it one of the most cumbersome programs I've ever used so I dumped it. No simulation, nothing nicer than doing a uC in your sim then just building the board.
How's the back and forth annotation? Can you put the schematic on one display, the board on the other and switch parts in one and see it come up in the other? How about when the board and sch. are out of sync because a package can't be found in the board package list? Is it easy to find and fix?
I almost went to Altium but then they started playing with prices. Engineers bought it for like $10k and then they offered it to me for $2 or $3k - yikes!
I've used a ton of programs in the last 25 or so years and I pay for Proteus now. I've learned it very well and it does a lot of neat stuff and, this is also important to me, it's not buggy! Fighting bugs and having terrible support is a nightmare. Some of these programs get too flashy, push too hard to keep up with the industry and the bugs start creeping in. I heard guys talking about Altium being buggy but I don't use it so I don't know.
I still make models and parts even though you get zillions of chips that are downloadable these days, so I want easy parts building too.
I don't need a list of board houses, you can go on Google and search cheapest board prices and you get all the major places.
I use 3D modeling a lot now too and even make my own 3D designs in my CAD program so I want a program that imports STEP, STP and IGES files. Also a program that imports DXF files. I just built a PCB where the outline came from a DXF from text that I was using as a backlight - saved me all kinds of time - spoiled me a little. Now I want to go from DXF to PCB and to my CAM program and do it without bugs. I don't like black backgrounds on the sch. side, it's one of the first things change, I'mpersnickety. I send schematics out to my editors and I want them to be perfect, Proteus makes really great looking schematics, you get really good color control and my main monitor is highly color corrected.
Sorry for all the questions, I guess engineers get fussy when they do this all day!
Thanks for this great feedback! I’ve tried many programs too and do like Altium - but way to expensive! I’ve also used Proteus and think I might review it here and show its capabilities including the simulation. I’ll work with DipTrace more to see how it works and do a board with it in hopes to help others learn processes to keep from making mistakes;)
@@KissAnalog Thanks, It seems a lot of hobby guys like DT and from what you showed it sure looks like a lot of bang for the buck, I'll keep watching you assessment.
I don't know if they still do but awhile back DigiKey and Mouser were giving away free programs from some of the big shots. They were scaled down and the parts tree probably was dedicated to their parts selection but it's probably a good deal for some people. I don't know if DT does that with any suppliers though.
Altium is a funny duck but too costly for me. They bought out Circuit Maker which was a great little program 20 years ago but a little buggy. They made a mess of it then and I guess it's cloud based now but it's one that might compete with DT, I think it's buggy though.
Lots of fun!
Did you try to change to country to China (they should separate shipping location), maybe the program will let you pick PCBWay.
Great question Johnson! I did try and select different countries and I didn't see any change, but I did see an example from DipTrace that did show the PCBWay option. I'll have to check with them and get back to everyone. However, you can export files the normal way and send them to anyone you like. I think I'll try PCBway and maybe JLPCB, or maybe take suggestions from the comments...
Seems to beat the hell out of the free version of Eagle CAD. For parts not in their library that need to be created, ideally there should be a way for those to be automatically shared among users and automatically cataloged on the PCB CAD creator's site instead of everyone having to reproduce them individually. I'm talking about something beyond just user forums as a source. I'm talking about a periodically updated user created parts collection file.
Thank you for this feedback!
that's the grbl board. haha. i have to use one soon.
Great software
can this software trace where a signal goes through an existing/all ready built piece of electronics to see where it goes and where it stops if there's an issue?
Thanks for the great question! This is not a simulation software, but MicroCap is and it is now free: th-cam.com/video/hUyzhSZL0cA/w-d-xo.html
@@KissAnalog reason I ask is I have a cassette deck that is not getting a signal through on one channel. I would save myself a ton of money if I could just find where the problem is and replace what's needed if anything. Used decks have been going up in price since the cassette revival. So many could be salvaged if there was a way to trace the problem in half the time. I'm below amateur status when it comes to this but am interested in it.
Do you have a scope?
@@KissAnalog for the PC. Im experimenting with it trying to do a calibration/azimuth alignment
Does DipTrace have the ability to simulate the finished schematic design like Lab Center Electronics offering?
No, there is not a built in spice simulation tool like Lab Center.
@@KissAnalog oh, that is disappointing as DipTrace is excellent in what it offers, but lacking in what it doesn't. This is not a criticism of what DipTrace is or is offering, meaning it isn't the case DipTrace needs vast improvement in what it's offering but needs to recognise when they have created a seamless path from you guys opening DipTrace to crate your PCB to pressing the send file to the PCB manufacture, there is a missing "error catching" unit within the path DipTrace takes you on, which is, of course, does the schematic function as expected.
I will be honest with you I have no idea what resources it would take to add the missing 'utility' or if the boys in my eotp team are correct when they tell me what a lacking not having schematic simulation is. Is it the case it isn't lacking for you since you know your design works, but they are schoolboys and need what you do not perhaps?
I do know at our school, in technology class, they use LabCenter software which the boys really like to use us girls hate technology class but we have to take part because we live in a world where we all have to like the same things when girls and boys like different things. I like little babies and the boys like little soldering irons.
I do know the boys, one of them my brother, really enjoy your videos and although I think they are a little odd sitting in my dad's garage making stuff when I know for certain there are spiders in there and Katie's dad's garage had a mouse in, that he tried to deny. My brother and his friends tease me, but I would rather them do that and make stuff than get into fights with other boys since they can't use words.
For more than 500 (1000pin )pin you need to use a non commercial license,so its free to 1000 pin. You have to use it each time you open diptrace.
The max number of pins used is for each project. So, you can use the max number on as many projects as you want, but no more than the max pins or layer count on any single project. Does that make sense?
Interesting but it's a shame that it's limited to 2 layers without a purchase - although the price for hobbyist isn't too bad, especially compared to the Altium and their limited versions. I use Kicad which I found really easy to pick up and create PCBs with (and symbols and footprints.) I've found I've created 4 layer boards quite a bit these days, particularly with things like a SMPS or where the component count is high. The cost is peanuts from the likes of JLCPCB so it becomes a no-brainer to make your routing life easier! The Chinese manufacturers will create your boards by squeezing them into spare space on panels so you don't have the issue that you should with the US manufacturer. Quality has been excellent as well. My last manufacture was for 5x2 layer 5cm x 10cm plus 5x4 layer 10cm x 10cm and they came delivered for < USD20. Personally, given the 2-layer limitation, I would recommend Kicad but I guess with all tools you go with what intrinsically feels right to you.
It will be interesting to see your tips for schematic and PCB layout, look forward to that and more projects - I'm undoubtedly one of those people who you'd be shouting STOP to as I'm all self-taught and I have run into a number of issues in the past. More than the cost, which is peanuts for the board manufacturer, it's the delay in waiting for delivery when you fix it up.
Thanks Andrew - great feedback! I tried KiCad but it seemed a bit clunky. I still have it on my computer, so I’m hoping to have time to work with it to see how it goes. I like the idea of no limits and free;) At the same time, I can see most of my boards as only 2 layers, and at $125 for the 4 layer version, if it saves mistakes and time in actual board layout - I think it might be worth it for some. Also, if someone did want to build a business, the having a software that you can count on because its paid for, and save time, and possibly have employees, then Diptrace might be the way to go. I worked for a company that wouldn’t allow engineers to use free software because its not controlled. But, all that said, I am interested in learning KiCad. I think I can also help others not make the mistakes I see made with it;)
The things I find clunky with Kicad are the library management, which I don't fully get yet, and some of the footprints can be a bit dodgy; fortunately it's extremely easy to copy and update these and create new ones. Apart from that, it seems really easy to use (make sure you have the latest version installed.) I say that, though, from the perspective of not using anything else for comparison and coming to it at a reasonably late-ish version. I believe it's developed/directed by CERN for their use and open-sourced from there and development seems very active and support, via forums, pretty good.
From a business-usage perspective, normally, I wouldn't go open-source but require a maintenance and support contract for any product that could be deemed business-critical, even where there existed open-source versions of the same product that were identical in operation. I wouldn't use Kicad for business critical operation because you do need to rely on the community.
For the hobbyist, it might be worth doing a comparison of the two - when I looked, any such comparison was a few years old and I expect both products to have come a long way since then.
Incidentally, if you really want quirky and clunky and have a masochistic desire to inflict pain and suffering on yourself, try LTSpice on MacOS.
easyEDA with cloud library also recommended.
Yes, that might be a good tool too, but it is web based and I don't think you can do work unless you are on their website. I looked at this once but wasn't sure about the files - like who owns them? ;) It is part of JLPCB, a PCB manufacturer, so I just might be a bit unsure... They do say that you can download the gerbers and take them anywhere. But, as they are part of a pcb house, I think I feel more comfortable with a tool that is a standalone tool. I need to look more into this... Thank you!
Doesn't look bad, but I feel like all these other tools just can't compete with kicad, it is definitely not perfect, but it being free and open source, working in Linux and having most of the features required by the majority makes it a no brainer, and it definitely has some features that are better.
Thanks for this comment. I think you would have to try this to compare. I’ve used many programs but have only dabbled with DipTrace and KiCad trying to decided which to go with. IMHO and little experience with both, DipTrace looks more powerful and easier to use. One thing I’ve seen from KiCad, I’ve seen where other channels have made mistakes as it is obvious that they are new to board layout and the tool allows a bit too much freedom - in a negative way that allows for mistakes by those not understanding the process. I’ll learn KiCad and Diptrace on this channel and show the pros and cons of each as I go along. I love that KiCad is open source.
Looks like some cool software, but looks expensive too :( Good video though Eddie !
Thanks #Mr Leamerz! For the full blown commercial version it is a fraction of the cost of the big boys, so not too bad, and there is the free version;)
@@KissAnalog Yes yes i saw ! Looks interesting ! I'm still using Kicad & been playing around with EasyEDA..
I'm used before potel, eagle now design spark, not a single restrictions ,it's RS components
Thank you! I too used protel and tried eagle, but didn't like it;) My favorite has been Altium, but it is very expensive. I like DipTrace as it is free for the 2 layer board, which I think is great for most of us at home. And the 4 layer is priced low enough and that really covers many of us;) I understand to upgrade you just pay the difference.
@@KissAnalog I'm trying diptrace also, after c your video,
Design spark also 8layers , online BOM supports,
Best for professionals
At 32:00 is that a reference to Jullian Iletts attempts :-)
I've watched a few channels, but there's one other one that I've seen some interesting issues. These mistakes are something that is not uncommon if you are not used to following a proven process - and even then there can be mistakes found;)
@@KissAnalog I've only made a couple of simple pcb's myself, and even then I made a stupid mistake that I only realised when the boards arrived. Still getting boards made now is pretty cheap.
Really miss Auto Routing!
Might be giving up
KiCad
I just dip from Kicad into Freerouting or TopoR, it's not really that much trouble. I think adding gEDA's autorouter ("toporouter") into Kicad could be something i could look into, but i don't do PCBs often enough myself and basically i don't have a direct incentive, financial or otherwise.
Thank you! How many layers do you typically design to?
@@KissAnalog 2 layers. I have never actually needed to make a 4 layer board yet. I am sure the power and ground plane help. And for RF it would be nice.
I think that time means a lot too, and cost of mistakes on boards. I understand the KiCad has made progress, but one thing in particular that I think is strange and lends itself to a lot of mistakes by the person learning is the library. The way it doesn't automatically have a pattern assigned to a part and you assign these later. I've never worked with a tool like that. I'll give it a try, but I think I'll start with DipTrace for my first project;) The 4 layer version is not that expensive if it saves time and money down the road. I do like the idea of the open source.
not having so much fun finding a 1 Ohm 10W Through Hole Resistor Axial Wirewound in the lib
Wow, that is a big resistor;) I see 3 Watt resistors, but nothing that big. What's the part number or manufacturer? This might be a great fast video to make;)
@@KissAnalog i did extensive searches on any manufacture (@Digikey) but non of them had a spice footprint. it is an emitter resistor for a 200watt quasi complementary audio amp.
You know you're an analog guy when your goal is to have zero non-power vias...
Thanks - I like it;)
YES!
Noooo bro. *ALWAYS* manually route anything that's critical first before autorouting, lol. Stuff like surface routing/copper flood shapes for your power controllers with all of their components, power traces, often high-speed clocks, high Z, sensitive or noisy lines, sometimes critical busses, always with surface RF connections between components, (you know, the ones that the RF engineers are always UBER UBER picky about)
I'm sure you've seen autorouters butcher otherwise simple buck or boost converters before - especially worse if the PCB designer was clueless about important part placement fundamentals before they clicked 'autoroute' ;) Oh man, I have so many hilarious (in retrospect) disaster stories along these lines. I'll bet you have 3 times as many of these stories at least.
I fervently recommend that folks avoid autorouting two-layer boards unless they're completely out of time with an angry boss who cares *way* more about meeting a fab schedule than he does about assembly or functional issues later. You can always manually route small two or four-layer boards better than an autorouter will do, and it's a better way to learn. On *much* larger designs, if you're able, when you get to the point of autorouting - don't autoroute all at once but selectively autoroute different net groups as you go so you can more easily spot goofs and make adjustments or corrections. :) Sadly, even the smartest autorouters still need good constraints configuration setup and careful shepherding by the designer to really shine.
This is all just my general advice to anyone who's starting out and happens to read it.
Anyway, excellent video as always, Eddie! Also a great introduction to DipTrace!
LMAO ;) Perfectly said! I agree with you, but I do - or have used auto route much to the dismay of the analog Gods;) As you said, I route the uber important traces, and then I auto route areas (if the tool will let me). Sometimes I do it several times to see what I like better, and then I manually correct what I don't like;) It is actually a fast and I've found a good way - especially on a tight board where manual route would be painful and take much longer to every get right;)
@@KissAnalog You filled in the blanks of my summarized autoroute strategy perfectly! Maybe someday you'll be able to show us the technique you figured out that works well.
Oh, here's something else you already know - Nobody ever becomes a true Analog Wizard without first infuriating the Analog Gods... hundreds of times. ;)