Testing eBay Molecular Sieves
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we test molecular sieves bought from eBay for their authenticity and quality and compare them to authentic lab grade molecular sieves.
Molecular sieves are used for drying solvents by selectively removing water. So to test it we simply add water to activated molecular sieves. There should be a temperature spike as they absorb water. The speed and intensity of this temperature spike roughly correleates to their quality. Low grade molecular sieves spike very slowly and not very high while fake sieves don't spike at all.
Molecular sieves type 3A are selective toward water and not methanol. So to test for selectivity we simply add methanol. If these sieves are high quality type 3A then they shouldn't absorb methanol and should give no temperature rise. Low grade molecular sieves will temperature spike indicating poor selectivity.
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Exactly. It isn't that things made in China are low quality, it's that a lot of things of low quality are made in China. Verifying your supplier is pretty important in almost any serious application.
siege... i before e
you forget to capitalize and punctuate (like me) @@anagennao
Still fixing the time machine.
Classic
once it's done can you go way in to the future and do a vlog
you can call it "future vlogs with rage"
FIRS---
Wait, no, huh? Darn NurdRage and his time travel technology!
Hey NR, question; Can you reuse MS? or are they true disposables?
you can reuse them, just heat them up to 200°C and wait a few hours, they will release water
"And I found a supplier in China at a price that was too good to be true..."
Is it possible that the sieves that were on ebay are cheap because they're from a failed batch?
Just like cheap high power LEDs, these are most likely factory rejects.
The one-star review was a dead giveaway ! :D
You cannot always believe in star ratings
that was from 1 rating
Maybe it’s him who posted the review and he made the video later?
Could 4a sieves be used to un denature alcohol that has had methanol added to it?
Cody'sLab Personally I would fractionally distill the methanol from the ethanol. Just made a still-will let you know when I do a run.
Cody'sLab anyone know if the cheap seeves holding temp in experiment #1 while the expensive seeves dropped temp rapidly signifies anything?
this is a very old video know one realized who Cody was.
Buy Sverclear, Silver Springs, etc. and remove the other 5%.
For cheap undenaturated alcohol you can just take Ethyl acetate, which costs nearly nothing(I paid 4$ a Liter), then throw in a bunch of NaOH and distill of the Ethanol ;)
Yes but I'd distil first. A compound I made and used - 2,2-dimethoxypropane - is made from acetone and methanol with a sulphuric acid catalyst. It's used because it is a vastly superior reagent to acetone alone for making acetal protoecting groups.
I was using it to produce 1,2-5,6-di-isopropylidene-D-glucose from 1,2-isopropylidene-D-glucose. The 1,2 actal is extremely stable and goes on really easily, you tend to get 50:50 yields of the di and mono product when starting from glucose and just using dry acetone. It's best to then use 2,2-dimethoxypropane on the mono product to drive to completion.
When producing the reagent it is isolated by fractional distilation, however since the raction is reversible, you need to do the reaction and constantly remove the water formed. I do this the same way Nerdrage made ethyl propionatae (I actually got the idea from him), using a soxhlet extractor and 3 Å sieves. The product is then isolated by fractional distilation and stored over 4 Å sieves to MeOH from the product. Any acetone contamination is not an issue, since it acts as a reagent anyway - just not as good
AppliedScience is a NurdRage patron? Nice.
are you talking about ASIC corp? I know who they are!
Something i've learned is that where something is made has no effect on quality. But instead the quality control that is put in place does. Thus as long as the factory is made to perform the proper checks and a quality standard for the product is set, you don't get any problems. After all everyone tries to maximize efficiency and cost, so those checks and tests are not often welcomed. So if a company is allowed to take short cuts, don't expect them to put out something of quality.
Great test! I decided to still go with eBay because its a lot cheaper but I bought some molecular sieves on eBay that were not from China. The ones I bought were being sold on eBay in the US.
I also noticed in your video the darker color of the Chinese sieves vs the lighter color of the authentic ones. So I took that into mind and bought ones that were lighter in color.
I preformed the same test as instructed in the video with Chinese eBay sieves and US eBay Sieves and came up with some really promising results. The US eBay version seems to be of higher quality than the Chinese versions.
So really eBay is not a bad place to buy chemicals and things like that. You just have to be smart and know the bad from the good. eBay is just a hit or miss really.
I have bought most of my lab equipment from eBay and some from china and I have not had any issues with it yet.
"they exceeded my expectations, probably given i had none to begi nwith" you really had me laughing there Nurd. that´s why we guys love you. your videos are interesting and there´s always something to love at (let´s just say gallium induced structure failure of a baseball bat?)
"cast your own aluminum butt plug"
that was in my suggestions... wtf Google?
The Janted Jangler Aluminium*
Common wealth English, or American English? Aha!
Zamandu American Grammer is better because reasons!
Grammer? Really?
Grammar oh me oh my!
"These micro sieves exceed my expectations. Primarily because I had none to begin with" LOL 4:16
Idea: Send some of each kind to Applied Science to image with his electron microscope!
That's actually a pretty good buy. I would say those were more likely to be a defective batch and sold off cheap rather than destroyed. They would have some valid uses. Thank you for that video it was interesting.
Thanks for the video. This is actually very useful to me! Like any other of your video, this is a GREAT JOB. Thanks over and over
It would be interesting to put the samples through nitrogen adsorption analysis to see the average pore size. I've done this with some silica / alumina samples with good success
Cool, I had no idea that molecular sieves existed.
Video quality on these video's are insanely good :) i like it!
Are there any situations in which the cheap sieves would be adequate? love the vid btw
Maybe for drying liquids that have a relatively large molecule.
It all depends on how pure you need your final product to be
if yu wanna get rid of water AND methanol? seems to work (given you pour in enough of these things^^)
1:57 says Chinese
TH-cam : wait that's illegal
I like Nurdrage's pronunciation of "seeves".
can you do a video on how to make NO2
The cheaper stuff you bought may be rejects in the QC process of the more expensive sieves.
Thanks for another great video. Using natural zeolite might be a less expensive way to adsorb (absorb?) water. It would be interesting to see if natural zeolite is at all pore size specific like your engineered zeolites are supposed to be. I use natural zeolite from the local pool chemical supplier and it costs less than $1 per kg.
natural zeolite would definitely be just random, amorphous pour sizes. Same way one can buy pure white silica flakes to use as a desiccant, doesn't mean you can just crush them up and use them for chromatography. chromatography grade silica is much much more expensive
excellent video, much needed
This is why low boiling point solvents begin to boil when sieves are added. The Chinese sieves do a little bit.
You get what you pay for I guess is the maxim
Thanks for your work
Great video, I think more videos like these would be good.
but what are molecular sieves used for?
0:04
Selectively filtering out water or other unwanted chemicals when it is otherwise impossible or difficult to separate them out
I like your videos! :)
But try pitchshifter @ -2 instead of -4 or -3 ;)
Sometimes they are made by the same company. Maybe rejected batches they try to sell rather than waste?
So this is why these Orbees will swell in water and not alcohol, it's all down to the pore size in the absorbent material?
Green Silver nope. theres no pore size on orbeez. they're hygroscopic/hydrophilic. the polymer prefer to be bound with water, which increases the size of the polymer molecules. As the polymer links expand, water also gets trapped, which is why they also take such a long time to dehydrate. Think of it the same way as water mixing with ethanol. not all of the water binds to the polar hydroxyl group of ethanol and just sits between the molecules, which is why a 50/50 mix comes out at 98
Zivilyn The Wyrd
Thanks, I've learned something today. :)
green silver - your initial comment was correct.
The are in fact just that sieves designed to have a very specific pore diameter.
Green Silver a
0:16
they had a One Star rating.. no?
Can sieves be used to remove water from ethanol and can sieves be dried and reused? Thanks for another great video!!
1. yes if they are 3A, as Mr. Nurdrage explains in the first 20 seconds 2. yep
I'd love to see a test with ethanol. Just how big do those pores go?
I wish you would have weighed them before and after. Great video though
You should buy your Molecular Sieve from brownell ltd they have the best and most absorbant at low prices
thanks for the tip!
How would you rate the 3A molecular sieve from Sorbent media, Inc??
Is that "seeve" pronunciation of "sieve" a US thing or a NurdRage thing? Here in the UK it's definitely a "civ"/"sivv"
Everyone here in the US goes with the EE sound but online dictionaries use the CIV. Also it is Middle English, not French. Comes from the word sife or sive and cognates with the Duich word zeef, and the German word sieb. Either way works for me because it is made of words with both the EE sound and IV sound. Being safe though CIV is a good bet because most of the world will say it that way, to include many major dictionaries and their pronunciation or phonetic guide. Passoire though is a French word meaning strainer or sieve. Colander would be the Latin word and folks still use to to mean pasta strainer. To avoid confusion they should just call them molecular colanders. I mean we name everything else from the dead Formal Latin in science, why the exception?
I just wonder I have molecular Sieve 3a high grade but very old since 2004
Is it possible to reactivate it and use it
do you think that they were very old stock? or would that even apply?
could you show us how we do the gold bacteria for growing the gold
would it be worth testing against larger alcohols to see how big the pores are? Also might be worth testing a methanol saturated batch against water to see if the pores are varied or just big. Varied would still mean significant numbers of small enough pores, so they could still dry solvents only grab some of the solvent with it. Big might make them useless for methanol, but potentially almost as good for larger solvents.
What is the correct price range when you purchased the sieves? It seem a little pointless telling us the cheap stuff doesn't work without telling us the cost involved.
@NerdRage Do you think these Ebay sieves would be of sufficient quality to pull the excess water from some ethanol (moon shine) for low grade laboratory use? yields tend be somewhere around 75%. (tested with a hydrometer float) The goal is 95% or better with minimal loss. I could probably refine my distilling process and achieve somewhere closer to 90% but I'm lazy and broke. lol
John dawson probably not, it's still an equilibrium. You'd experience a small change, but nothing near what you're looking for. Distillation is probably your best bet. Also to get anything better than 95% you need to use something to displace the water, what's used for lab grade alcohol is benzene. I don't recommend on using that if you plan to drink it unless your ok with getting leukemia.
Beowulf Owen LOL xD No i dont plan to drink it. The plan is to use it as a mixing catalyst for experimental rocketry and home made fireworks for family fun. Had a grandpa who passed away that use to make them and he had license to by a lot of what you need but we don't. Most of it is pretty simple to make though. Plus I'm interested in playing with mixture ratios and finding what works best.
I have considered the isopropyl aproach but the best i can buy without finding some dealer somewhere is 91%. Everclear is an option, but since i make grain alcohol around a gallon at a time i figured this might be a more economical approach considering i only need around a pint for the amount of materiel we will be making.
ahh...dude, the china one is natural/mined and the lab grade would be synthetic?
Hi Nurd, I'm curious. Do you actually have a PhD in Chemistry? If so, what was the topic of your thesis?
N Kayser Yes I'm aware. Thanks for not answering the question.
thanks for this good work!
Nurd, you got a new hotplate, it seems?
more accurately i had one of my old ones repaired. I'm still looking for ways to repair my two other hotplates.
if you would compensate the higher quantity is the price still better than the chemical supply companies? ;)
Does 3A or a higher A reach higher temperature with water?
What zeolite crystal is needed to absorb CO2?
I think type 4A is used for CO2 absorption.
Thanks
So these are perfect?
NurdRage question, does it actually absorbe the carbon into the material or does it separate the CO2 from other gas's leaving a layer of CO2 that needs to be pumped out?
Why exactly does the water get hot!? This is just amazing...
similar to the release of heat when evaporating, but it's forced "sorption" that releases heat
I work for a chemical company and we use 50% sodium hydroxide solution and once it hits the ground or another surface it turns purple. what would cause that?
Thank " big bang" for discovering this
what is the name and brand name of that device he sets the jars on to measure their temperature?
I tried purifying 40% vodka with some eBay molecular sieves made in the US! I waited a whole week and no difference at all! What do you think happened? My hydrometer gave me the same reading from before the experiment .
My molecular sieves are from a company called molecular boss.
real informative vid!
hm. 70 degrees is the perfect temperature for green tea
can this be used to concentrate hydrogen peroxide? assuming the h2o2 molecule is too large to be absorbed.
MrTurboturbine if you're looking to concentrate it, put it in the freezer, then filter out the H2O crystals. Sorry, I can't remember where I saw that.
does the heat output ever become a problem?
I have a question. I am using 13th sieve made in China. It is creating great deal of orangish residue, after absorbing a water from ethanol. I have great del of difficulties to remove that residue. It this normal, or hide quality sieve would not produce this residue?
Hi, do you know some materials that dilate by the water? Thanks.
Interesting I have been looking for sieves to make an oxygen concentrator but I'm not sure what size I need or a supplier. Medical O2 concentrators are too expensive, since they are actually simple low pressure devices it should be fairly simple build. Any suggestions on which and where to get the sieves.
I'm not positive but, 13X Zeolite Molecular Sieve Type 13X 4x8 mesh
on the water test, is that run in real time or time-lapse? if tme lapse how much time passed?
opposite actually, it's been slowed down, total temperature spike takes about 20 seconds.
Btw...China makes excellent quality stuff....don't forget they manufacturer space crafts, satellites, weapons, cars etc..... one of the things they do is produce a product based on the specs of the customer..... so what is really the case is that many customers who outsource goods to the Chinese also ask them to make it as cheap as possible. ..so their returns on sales is much higher
Hi man this a question what did you study for this I know chemistry but to know all this stuff
did you use methanol with a small amount of water or a large amount of water?(%)
I think that from the batch of lab grade molecular sieves, you should understand that the methanol was probably quite pure (with less water). Obviously he won't put different concentration methanol in the different sieves.
how well would a dehydrator work for regenerating molecular sieves?
the one I have maxes out at 160F/71C, but there's also convection to help evaporation.
you can use an oven so i am fairly sure a dehydrator would work too
I hate to be that guy, but the correct pronunciation of sieve is siv.
.......... Ok Mr pronunciation nazi
Hi, I'm a high school student and am interested in chemistry and fairly new to it, what do these sieves do?
Sam Sokolov they absorb molecules basically. So you can use them to extract water out of solution or something else, as long as they are the right size for the molecule.
In fact those china sieves aren’t even that expensive if you buy them in china. I could get one for us$1.5
Lol... seeves...
Sieve rhymes with give.
Nah
Depends on the accent and region.
Geeve
Depending on the country of origin, it might rhyme with 'thieves.'
Do you speed up the audio?
I feel sad after reading those reply.In fact, It isn't that things made in China are" low quality",
I'm a molecular sieves manfacturer in China.china is such a big country,it's both a good and bad quality.
So we always suggest clients to have a test or visit our factory before a deal.
Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow for traveling halfway around the globe to test for a small scale purchase. I'm guessing your budget doesn't allow for giving away free samples of product to every potential purchaser to satisfy their curiosity about quality. Where does that leave us?
@@commentatron
with independent, crowdfunded third-party testers, would be the reasonable response. unfortunately those don't yet exist very much.
is calcium chloride a good choice if you don't have sieves?
Joe Estes if it doesn't dissolve in the solvent you're trying to dry, yes. things like methanol/ethanol, some ionic compounds are slightly soluble in, which means that you have some contamination. dichloromethane is nonpolar and calcium chloride may work just fine for it.
Ok thanks!
it's pretty Obvious that they are real. but they are also used. basicly second hand
Try it with kitty litter!
you should make a video showing were we can find companies who sell to amateurs to buy chemicals. you could also possibly get profit from them if they sponsor. I know you made a video previous on it, but that's very old. #staynerdy
/siv/, not /seev/
thanks lol
Why use slashes if you're not going to use the IPA?
@@ScotsmanRS International Phonetic Alphabet
Joseph Nicholas Yes, my point was that slashes alone don’t help if you don’t bother to use actual IPA symbols between them.
Is 20$ for 1kg cheap!
I want to eat it and I don’t know why. Looks like fish food.
Why did you turn off ratings and comments for your fake platinum electrode video?
Turning off comments makes people think you have something to hide
Too many trolls brigading that video for some strange reason.
@@NurdRage were they brigading for you or against you?
Nothing wrong with having a personal army
Looking back, it would probably be more straightforward just to delete the video itself. I think i'll do that.
@@NurdRage boooooooo
That's even worse than turning off comments
It was also quite informative as to the best ways to detect fake platinum electrodes
Am I the only one who's going to comment on the fact that something that absorbs stuff is called Aldrich? Dks3 anyone?
number 8
Mmmmm😊
I had no idea that Americans pronounce sieve as "seeve" instead of "siv".
I'm American and me and everyone I know pronounce it "siv".
Thank god for that
Both are common in the USA. Where I live it is about 50/50.
Evil from evilution NurdRage is Canadian
Its inaccurate to call them just "Chinese" sieves.
First comment that says first
/sɪv/
first
Sieves, not "seeves"
I like your videos good stuff, but don't buy items from china on ebay its just a bad idea.
Why? I prove in this video the eBay molecular sieves are worth what i paid for them.
I do about half my online shopping from China. they're the best for low priced electronic parts.
I buy electronic parts from ebay and aliexpress, shipped directly from china.
A lot of scientific glassware made in China is actually pretty decent in terms of quality.
Question:
What is the common use for Molecular Sieves?.
To dry (that is to remove the water from a solution) chemicals that you wouldn't, or couldn't dry through other means such as distillation. An example is ethanol (drinking alcohol); it forms an azeotrope with water, so if you distill an aqueous solution of ethanol in an attempt to get pure ethanol, you will only get it to ~95%. You can distill that again and again and it will never get anymore pure than that. If want to get it to 100% you use a drying agent such as MgSO4 or you can use molecular sieves. The water molecules get trapped in the sieves and after a while you can simply pour off the ethanol with most of that remaining water you could(n't) distill away trapped in the sieves.
therealnightwriter I guess I was not specific enough and that is my fault.
It is clearly obvious that the item main use is to remove water from a solution, that much is clear in the video and why would anybody ask that question?, Obviously nobody would ask that question.
My question was one step ahead of what is plain obvious, what would be a common experiment or process that would require the removal of water by this process. No I was not asking if this was used to remove water or to dry something, I was asking what would be the most common experiment that require water to be removed by the use of this material and only this material.
There are several techniques to separate and remove water, obviously there is not one solution for all problems, obviously this material is the best option in some cases, I was hoping somebody would mention a example for which water removal had to be done with this material and not other alternatives.
Now if you excuse me I have other questions for other videos, oh hey look there is a video about an Antonov-32P "flying" over LA, I'm going to ask the most common purpose for a huge airplane like that.
FML! Every comment answers my question with the same answer:
"Is used to fly",
And the last comment says:
"Answer:Watch the video and listen, pay attention, and take a stab at some of that thing called thinking".
Well no shit Sherlock, I really need to be more specific on my questions and that is my fault, I wrongly assumed that people would read past the obvious.
Thanks for showing both tests. Very interesting from someone who never used anything beyond MgSO4 or a schlenk line for working with dry materials.
You should buy 3-5 different sieves off different sellers on eBay and see which is the best choice for us poor guys.
Yeah, would love some links to known good sources for hobbyists...
TheAmmoniacal Thanks! Are those ones you know to be decent quality?
Thunderbelch No, not tried any of them. Those are the ones I want NurdRage to test!
@N K
yo North Korea, you done with that adsorbtion testing yet?
"This test isn't all that scientific..." You mean those aren't borosilicate baby food jars? ;)
Just wondering, from your experience, when you heat the zeolite after it has absorbed moisture, do the properties return or is there a lose in quality? How many times is this restoration cycle practical? Is there a temperature and time do you find works well in restorating the properties? And in the real world and not under pressure, how quickly does the sieve material absorb moisture?
Any tips appreciated.
did you ever experiment with this... thermal batteries , I wonder if lower temperatures around 170F can be used to reactivate the sieve (over a longer time)...
Great test.
You are very great in chemistry. ☺
chemestry? yes, storing those chemicals? not so much :)
ew alfa aeser and sigma aldrich...hardly ever put expiration dates on their products which makes it annoying even when you look it up on their site sometimes it still doesn't have it
Could you tell me if these adsorb more water then Silica Gel , i looked for the data 1 day and from what i gathered it was based on the temperature of the media . it seems silica gel was the strongest , im using it to dry air and was trying to see if molecular sieves worked better
Hey love your torches! I think there are a lot of inherent differences between silica and zeolite. Either one will adsorb more water if crushed into a powder. For some applications, there are simple inorganic salts that actually out perform either. e.g. Potassium Carbonate can salt out even 5% alcohol out of the rest of the water. Calcium Chloride, is more or less the king of air stream drying, but they will liquify very quickly.
So tiresome the lack of quality standards and dishonesty of some Chinese suppliers