Using Fractional Distillation for Purification of Hydrobromic acid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2015
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While chemistry is very interesting to me, I have no applications for 99.99% of your videos. However, I always watch them to completion, and have been a huge fan for years. Your attention to detail, foresight, safety warnings, and concise explanations make your channel one of the best on TH-cam. I'm sure there are people who take away valuable information from your uploads - especially the little tips such as which opening of the adapter to put the column vs. the funnel on - and I really appreciate you taking the time to help them, and entertain me simultaneously. Don't get me wrong, you have taught me much, but unfortunately I've probably forgot most of it because I'm never using it, being a computer technician with an internet addiction. Truly though, knowledge is power, and the more people interested in STEM fields, the better we'll be as a species... and frankly, we need to start doing much better, very soon, to continue to thrive on this planet. So, thank you again, keep up the excellent work, and maybe think about creating some super-newbie videos, for people with only a year of chem in high school. :)
Speak for yourself. I've found his chemistry very useful in the "cannabis concentrates" business. I'm an economist/mathematician myself, but demand for people -- degreed or not -- who truly understand distillation and post-processing has skyrocketed, and I predict shall continue to do so. Think Breaking Bad goes legit.
EconMan same here lol. No Ochem school but I run a cannabis extraction lab using co2, ethanol, hydrocarbons and Short path fractional distillate. We all start somewhere and this type of video is where I got my start years ago. Learning Ochem without traditional schooling made it harder for sure because as i learned the process I was also having to learn basic Ochem processes as I went.
I'm not so excited about the stem programs. As an engineer, it was important to send my kids to stem high schools. To my disappointment, what I found was young teachers without any background in the subjects. It's seems all they are capable of is producing a differnt version of the purple haired breed. The public school is a disaster. For me, after 15 years, I'm getting tired of building cellular networks. When the public school dies, I want to teach.
Most people don't but if u want to do extractions then this is a good starting process. I took 2 organic chemistry classes in college so I know that he knows what he's talking about. Obviously his knowledge is a lot more vast then mine but I'm a microbiologist not a chemist.
I'm actually doing most of this in my organic 1 lab right now, but without this amazing in-depth explanation of it all. Thanks for boosting my grade!
+Alex Kolberg That's the biggest problem with school these days. They don't teach you the why, just the what.
+Kain Yusanagi I agree. It really just seems like they tell you what to remember for tests with no actual explanations.
+Kain Yusanagi Depends what school you go to. My school actually empathizes on the why rather than on the what.
BSC4PE
Thus the generic "school", indicating that it's a major problem within education. That doesn't mean every school has that issue, just that it is a common problem of some significance.
***** Yeah, well I totally agree with that.
Love the new format. With the longer vids you have the time to go into greater detail of the "why, how" of the particular experiment. Thus giving a better understanding for us non chemist types. Thanks, keep up the great work. Looking forward to the vid about distillation under different pressures.
Man, I don't know much about chemistry or physics, but I enjoy watching your videos. I love the fact that you're very informative. Maybe I'll be as smart and kind as you in the next life.
I watched this 7 years ago, found it interesting and enjoyed it but didn't really understand much of it. Now I just rewatched it and everything is familiar. I feel like a different person since then. Thanks.
Don't really know any chemistry(my school was garbage) yet I watch all your videos and love them, even the "boring" ones because the subject is so incredibly fascinating.
always a pleasure watching your videos, real science is not done enough on youtube(for reasons you have covered in the past)
Thank you! One of the most interesting and informative videos yet.
thank you so much. I knew of azotropes before but didn't understand WHY they were. I think I got a handle on it now. once again you have explained fundamentals that for whatever reason never sunk in before. you are there best!
As always, another interesting and educational video. Thanks, NurdRage!
I really love your videos! If I only had them when I graduated!!
keep uploading!
Well that was incredibly long and boring, but necessary to complete this video. I'll see if I can do something quick and fun like a pyrophoric substance or something for the next experiment.
+NurdRage You never do anything boring
+Wyatt Sheffield (Wyatt915) so true
Love your videos but would it not be better if you were to put the other links of "How to" in the description, otherwise they would have to look through all your videos to find the correct one.
+NurdRage Can you show examples or a how to for a chlorate cell? Ive been trying with carbon rods and stainless steel but have had no results.
+NurdRage Thank you for this :)
Home run, Nurdrage! Now I understand fractional distillation....
Really informative video. I learned a lot, thanks NurdRage! Earned my donation 😁
Nice to see a bit of Chem Eng 101 appearing :) Azeotropes are one of those aspects of thermodynamics that seem to exist just to make things difficult. Try designing a system of columns to separate a mixture of mono, di, and trimethylamine, ammonia, water, dimethyl ether, and methanol. In fact figuring out how that system of multiple azeotropes would behave is probably the hardest thing I've ever done. Fun!
Also, just for interest, to make the column more efficient it's better if the condensate can't easily fall back to the boiling flask, but is forced to mix and mass-transfer with the ascending vapour as much as possible.
Thanks for the time you put into this video.
Distill our HBr and HI acids under reduced pressure and under yellow light. Make as needed and use immediatly, if you must store them for any time purge the bottle with nitrogen or argon and in a fridge. ❤
Instruction Clear. Successfully purified hydrophobic acid at home. Thank you.
I remember learning the very issue discussed at around 4:55 "getting rid of water by just boiling it" when distilling ethanol from freshly fermented sugar. Yes, they have very different boiling points but it still took a second and then a third distillation to get really pure ethanol (for our very "dry" martini)
this is exactly what i needed, i'm going to use this to create glacial acetic acid for use with zirconium oxide to make my own super high temp crucibles.
This is a great concept that you're teaching in this video about boiling points I learned this while distilling grain alcohol LOL the still drives you more than anything the.. it's really bizarre how the temperature will rise as it's needed to rise to a certain degree before you have to push it a little
Never thought of the "residue" in the boiling vessel as what was to be purified. Learned something new!
Great video and good explanation of the azeotropes.
One correction, though. The Vigreux column is pronounced as bordeaux (bordo) with an accent on the last syllable. It is named after a French glassblower/flameworker with admirable moustaches who made it.
I've never heard anyone pronounce it correctly at this point. Maybe it's because I'm Canadian so I'm more familiar with French but it's insane to me that so many Americans see "vigreux" and conclude it must be pronounced "vye-grex" lol
@@pinklemonade8320 I'm German and this bothers me lol. NurdRage is also Canadian iirc, so that one was particularly brutal. The bordeaux example is better as "vye-grex" but still wrong, but I guess OP doesn't really care six years later. German pronunciation would be something along the lines of "wigrö". Umlauts ftw.
as a (probably fellow) chemical engineer I sOlute you!
very well done!
Fantastic Video!
Hey NurdRage, thanks again for another fascinating video! I respect your effort in these clear videos. As well as your effort in obscuring your voice. However, I find it more and more difficult to understand what you are saying as whole sentences are quickly spoken as one word. (Although I am a scientist myself and English level C1 competent). Could you maybe put longer pauses/spaces between the words you speak? Thanks!! :) I'm looking forward for more awesome science stuff! Regards, a fan!
Very well explained, thank you!
That was seriously enlightening.
y'know, good Dr, you could easily make a series on this subject alone. Lab Safety is all the more important to the novice.
How does phosphorus bind to the bromine? And would you filter the solution and then run distillation? Doesnt sound right to be heating up phosphorus like that
Thank you for explaining why the hydrobromic acid turns orange, I was very confused when mine got an orange tint.
"And your sanity if you still have it." Lol epic. Let's all be honest. Most of us don't have to worry about that one
Hello fellow Nerd! I'm quite curious about your thermometer! Where did you get it and what model is it? Currently I have a glass thermometer well adapter, that I've filled with mercury to better heat transfer to an temp probe that is read by an Arduino board.
You are amazing 👨🏫 lecturer
what is the name of that black thing reading the temperature? is it connected to a thermometer or is it just its own thing? id really love one of those! please tell me what u can about it.
That's one sick bong dude.
What brand of temperature probe do you use and where can I buy one?
I would be most interested in a series on glassware and tools used in chemistry, as well as some theory, such as explaining scavengers, etc.
Close loop the system. PID the heat with the input from the fractional outout. Microcontrollers are cheap and easy to use.
The title blew my brains up, why am i subbed here when i have no clue what im watching :D i guess i just like to see stuff react with other stuff :D
What are the benefits of shorter or longer Vigreux Distilling Column??
Thanks
Thanks for the information
Well done.
You could have talked about pressure-swing distillation specifically for breaking azeotropes that are pressure dependent. Perhaps even do a potential future video of the process by carrying it out if you have the proper equipment - that I would love to see! Great video though :)
hi guys, i have an easy question, how did you connect a type K probe to your 3-way destillation adapter? what did you use?
i want to use high accuracy temperature electronic thingy (you can get it on ebay...with arduino (it's 1-wire protocol)
i don't need high accuracy but i like good and cheap setup
if you used testtube or so, how you made sure the thermal-contact was correct?
i'm from germany so any idea where to get it? i know you germans are reading this :)
As amazing as gold - every question in my mind have been answered in one video
I'll be looking forward to the breaking azeotrope video! Sounds really interesting!
...5 years later...
Nice vid.Thumbs up!
What book/books should I get that give properties of chemicals?
That fractional distillation column looks like a tool useful in Colorado.
lol
What temperature should you boil the flask at? Are you boiling the flask at around the boiling point of the fraction you expect (like 100 C for water) or are you ALWAYS boiling at way above the boiling points of all the substances in the liquid?
You don't boil the flask at a temperature. You add heat and the vapour comes off at the temperature of the azeotrope. If you add more heat you get a greater vapour volume at that temperature.
If you generate too much vapour volume you get the flooding in the column he is talking about.
that would be the best bong tube ever
What are the signs that you are "flooding the vigreux column?
Thanks
hey whats the name of the support structure for the whole thing called
What's the benefit of longer fractional column length ?
I am glad I am a subscriber as I always learn from you and your videos.. Thank you
If you were to remove copper what would your concentration be? Also is 58% as high as you can go?
3:43 -- Water might also be boiling at 99 degrees C instead of 100 degrees because the altitude of your house is above sea level.
Hello! Your Chanel is amazing! Could you tell me were buy this 2:01 equitment? Labbox,pyrex
Very nice
Would a soxhlet extractor work for this experiment?
What people forget when they say to just heat it up to the boiling point of water is that the temperature of any solution is an average. Some parts will be hotter than others, and so will evaporate first. When you get solutions of compounds that are close in their boiling points, it's totally possible for some molecules of the compound with a lower b.p. to be in a hot zone while some molecules of the compound with the higher b.p. to be in a cool zone. If the b.p.'s are close enough and the difference between hot and cold zones are big enough, this could mean that the lower b.p. molecules actually evaporate before the higher b.p. ones.
TL;DR temperature is an average, which mean there will be outliers that don't act as expected.
Awesome video.
I want to use distillation to purify organic liquids from plant extract. I just want to remove the impurities that can't be filtered off rather than separating the liquids from each other.
I think i should use regular distillation, but my main concern is the thick oils condensing in the condenser and blocking it up rather than condensing in the actual condensation flask. Is this an actual concern? Last time i actually used these apparatus was 1st year chemistry at uni, and was using a simple solution.
Edit: Another concern is the temperature to use, the least volatile fractions evap at around 270 celcius, and the most volatile at around 70. If i do it all at once, will the high temperature damage the more volatile substances? Or will they just condense first?
Thanks for any help.
Using large/wide apparatus should fix the blocking problem. the small condenser i show in my videos is the 14/20 size and can get clogged up with some types of liquids. A wider size is 24/40 and that handles almost everything.
If you raise your temperature slowly then all the volatiles will boil off before they can get damaged by heat. I'd actually be more worried about the less volatile oils. They can char before they boil off. Generally, simple distillation is not used for anything that boils above 200 celsius. Those are just allowed to remain behind and recovered from there.
If you really do want to distill them, you need vacuum distillation.
Thanks! A lot of the components are around 150 celcius, but some are in the 220 range.
What size column do you use?
could you please make a Video in all of your glassware and other equipments? :)
Is it possible to reach a higher concentration of nitric acid than the azeotrope, or is this only possible in industrial procedures?
get a nitrate salt, mix it with conc. sulfuric acid...and destill off...no water involved so your acid may be even 99.9%
the sulfuric acid has like 2% of the water but it will hold on the water and don't give it easily ....
nurdrage.has video how to make nitric acid...just watch it...
One illustration to see why just boiling off water is wrong is the mixture of water and antifreeze in your car's radiator, where the water doesn't just merely boil off at the temperature of water, 100 degrees C, which car engines easily reach.
Is a fractionating column the same as a reflux column?
How do you get such accurate CC-subtitles in your videos.... even with such scientific terms. It even got Vigreux right without you saying it right. Is it just the way the voice sounds works better with googles Speech detection algorithm ?
+mrlithium69 As far as I know, he actually takes the time to create/edit them instead of relying on the voice recognition.
How long is that fractionating column?
In my chemistry class, we are going over things like standard deviation and significant figures. Are these things important in your work? Do you use
them often? Thanks.
+Minecraft Player Those are the very basics. Are you in high school?
Yes
Minecraft Player
So, it's like tying your shoes to Nurdrage. He probably doesn't even think about it now.
+Minecraft Player
As a chemist, i feel like i can say they are.
Not in every field is standard deviation massively important, but in fields like quality control or analytical chemistry fields it sure is. it will tell you if the measurements you performed are actually as precise as they should be.
Sure there are computer programs that can calculate these things for you, but you should be able to do this yourself, because like all things, you have to understand what you are actually doing and not just copy paste numbers and assume they must be correct.
for significant numbers, everyone will have to take this in account when writing a report. this is the norm, and lets be honest, there is nothing difficult in just using the correct amount of figures to report you findings.
just push past the boring things like this, and eventually if you really need to use them often it will become second nature. but chemistry is so much more than just some statistical calculations, or stoichiometric calculations.
+mark goos It is up to you to figure out if the numbers are shit or not. God I hated analytical chemistry.
ORGANIC CHEM.
Can you use this to obtain higher percentages of hydrogen peroxide from store bought stuff? I think its generally around 3 to 5 percent.
As it turns out, you can actually distill hydrogen peroxide, however hydrogen peroxide is explosive at temperatures lower than its boiling point so you absolutely must use a vacuum distillation to avoid such high temperatures.
+Quintinohthree Interesting, i was under the impression that hydrogen peroxide was only explosive when in the presence of a catalyst, hence its use as fuel for rockets and jet packs. Thank you for your responses I appreciate it!
Vigreux is pronounced "Vigrew". :P
+KakashiBallZ ah gotcha! All my years in university and no one ever bothered to correct me. Those jerks :) Thanks for letting me know, i always suspected it was not vig-rex but never knew otherwise.
+NurdRage If only your school took in more québécois lol.
It's French then I assume?
+Skatesy indeed it is.
+KakashiBallZ more like Vigruh
hey great vid NurdRage, could you provide some examples of the literature you reference? I'm an orgo student but my textbook gives little reference to known measures. Google is great for a quick question but I would like to pour over some experimentally verified material. keep up the great work!
wheres the beer man. we come here 4 the beer.
how long is your column?
I don't ever think I've seen beakers set up in a way where it looks like a bong this much
one hell of a way to smoke
+cholrus69 Funny you should say that because there are bongs that use ground glass joints like you see on lab glass. Unfortunately they don't use standard lab glass sizes. You can't retrofit the bong with bits from a lab supply store. Conversely you can't use bong parts in a lab setup.
+Trans Feminist Autism why is that? Now that I think about it 14.5mm and 18.8mm seems really arbitrary for the standard size for bongs lol
It would've been nice if you included the P-T diagrams to explain fractional distillation and azeatropes (extremum in diagram).
+tGhIeNrGmEiRte One could easily plot those diagrams in aspen hysys or plus
+tGhIeNrGmEiRte A hillbilly description is always bess
where does the 'bowl' go?
you are the coolest nerd, rage on.
Please explain how nitric acid is separated from water
is this similar to the function of a tower still used to make vodka?
I think you could try to remove the trace amounts of bromine by bubbling ethylene through it. Of course you would need to make the ethylene first, but that should not be hard and would make a cool video.
Or alternatively you could use vegetable oil and a lot of stirring. The fatty acids in vegetable oils are unsaturated, so they can scavenge bromine quite well.
+Federico Zamberlan If you add NaOH to your HBr solution, or bubble HBr gas though a NaOH solution, all you will get is NaBr and water. :D
I have never done an ethylene producing reaction, but I doubt there would be significant SO2 contamination.
There is no reduction happenning, just eliminiation of water.
i have no idea what you're saying BUT i stay intrested lol xD
Can't you try to separe azeotropic mixture by freezing it? Just curiosu to know wheter this is possible
+Pedro Franca That's how acetic acid is separated from water.
RedneckChemist
Cool, I was actually seeing separation method at school, including a brief text about fractional fusion, th said method (or in this case, the opposite, maybe fractonal solidification?)
+Pedro Franca It's called recrystalization.
agent475816
Thank you for explaining it to me.
Pedro Franca If you want a detailed explaination here it is:
A compound will have a certain solubility is a solvent. Lets take benzoic acid for example. Benzoic acid is not very soluble in water at 25 degrees C. Lets say you want to purify a sample of benzoic acid by recrystallization. If the contaminant does not dissolve in water than you can heat the mixture to boiling so all the benzoic acid will completely dissolve. The sample is filtered and you have a solution of benzoic acid. Simply let boil off to saturation and stand for about one or two days and the crystals of pure benzoic acid will form.
Same thing if you dissolve the sample in hot water and cool down, the substance you want to be purified will recrystallize without the impurities. Because they will still be dissolved in the solution because of their higher solubility.
Next project (heh, heh!): Upgrade this process to an industrial scale. Add taps on the column to exract various constituents. Of course, calculate all flow rates, and the required energy input. This is the topic of a class I took, "Stagewise Equilibrium Processes" ......the chemical engineering class from HELL!!
I know some of these words !Like 'for' and 'of' !
Now I know how to get toluene from paint thinner.
I feel bad I can't support nurdrage , I love his videos but don't make enough to support him at the moment :(
+AlChemicalLife click on his ads
Do you do video suggestions from Patreon Subs?
+TakronRust send me your suggestions and i'll take them into consideration :)
+NurdRage Could this distillation be accelerated by wrapping the fractionating column in insulation?
looks like a huge bong
So that's what 'azeotrope' means. Cool!
Make a video on How to make fluoroantimonic acid ;)
yeah..it is quite right what you said about boiling points and the attempt to separate liquid mixtures, and this is what I find quite irritating about people around here, they try and use REASON to set up an experiment like a fractional distillation based on what they THINK is right....rather than actually taking a sincere interest and reading up about it...and most everyone should know this, it is after all taught in school, and with that little bit of fore knowledge, it should be enough to make these fools realize that they are going to NEED to check up rather than relying on their intuition which almost always turns out to be utterly and hopelessly WRONG.
His speech pattern and accent sound like Norm from the Tested TH-cam channel.
if learning mass information is boring than yes that was very boring. ..thanks always
如果 表示 不会英语 怎么办？
So with boiling mixes it is simular to freezing mixes:
You can't just put a Water/Ethanol mix in the freezer so the water freezes solit and you can take it out of the liquid ethanol. What actually happens is that the freezing point as a whole goes down.
+muh1h1 Well you can remove water from some mixtures if you lower temperature low enough and add some ice crystals.
+muh1h1 Fractional distillation via freezing can be done too. Practical Example? AppleJack Moonshine :)
Steven Swenson or ice wine
+muh1h1 Hey, great comparison! That makes a lot more sense now :D Thanks
The appeal of your videos has a lot to do with home chemist trying to learn something. The glassware is impressive, but some kind of homemade rig made of commonly available materials would be nice also.
Not too long - watched it twice!