@@rl4416 I have a google sheet in my campsite for Armor Summary testing, as well as velocity testing. Both of those are data from my own work that I've collected. Is that what you're asking..
Thank you for this review! One of my hopes was to finally see a company make a micro compact 5.7… Few years back I heard back from L.W. Seecamp that he already placing serious consideration in a 5.7 type Seecamp but it was going to be awhile due to how busy they were with current orders. I still hope to see one day soon something nearly the size of a Seecamp, Tomcat or G26 in 5.7. Anyway, thanks again King of 5.7!
Thank you for including ballistics difference this was extremely helpful and you got an immediate subscribe. Please keep this up for all kinds of guns ! Was so easy not having to look up all kinds of information and it all being included
I still believe one of the biggest things holding this caliber back is not having a truly small carry option. Well, that and the still incredibly high cost of ammo.
Quick question. I saw that the rock compact brass was hitting the extractor i have the full size rock and the brass always hits my optic housing. Is that a typical thing for the rocks? I dont mind my optic getting dinged up but was curious.
Hey man, do you think you could give some db numbers on the rex mg50? Perhaps recoil reduction if you can somehow measure that and compared to the one without the muzzle brake ring(again if you can get a second one). There’s no information on it online, would be an interesting video to see on a bolt action.
You should try reviewing the Dark Mountain Arms ‘Stowaway’. It’s a single shot 5.7x28mm bolt action with a 5” or 16” barrel that you can detach and swap. New barrels and bolt faces coming too
@ ohhhh lol. I gotcha. Knew it was obvious🥲. Btw there’s a cartridge holder attachment that you can attach to the picatinny. It holds seven 5.7mm and is sold by CainArms
Glad to see that they did their testing and went with longer barrel, instead of the og compact length of 4”. But to be fair this makes this no longer a compact pistol as the slide alone is longer than the overall length of a Glock 19. Still this will make the cut for a ton of people by offering 9x19 carry performance with way less recoil and more capacity. Let’s hope people watch enough videos on this channel to pick the right ammo
@@BuffRANGE By the by, not sure if you will be at shot show with the family responsibilities and what not, but if you can make it out and bring your son he would love it. It's like Disneyland for gun guys. I'm sure the armor guys would trip getting to meet you.
Can you actually shoot the gun with the compact slide on the full size Rock frame? If yes, then I can slice the front dust cover on one of my full size frames to match the compact slide, when PSA starts offering the compact slides separately. I've bought an extra Rock colored frame they recently put on clearance, so I'll slice that one down a little.
so whats the current best 5.7 round to pierce soft armor today? seems to be the ss198lf still but i dont understand how with it being a hollowpoint? specifically ammo thats commonly available for consumer purchase.
Your best 5.7 ammo to do that would be SS190 but that's not exactly go to the gun store and get it. SO commercially available you have a few options 1. Buy 5.56 cal M855 bullets and roll your own load at 1500 fps.. 2. Elite Ammunition T6B, Dev 2.0/3.0 3. Vanguard Outfitters Black Dragon Fang 4. Elite Ammunition S4. Barring metallic alloys, most soft armor materials can fail to speed or bullet construction. Kevlar/Aramid panels can fail to pointy bullets over 1,700 to 1,800 fps. UHMWPE panels can resist speed, but not bullet construction. Typically pointed solids made of brass or copper in addition to having sufficient speed. With SS198 it has significant speed from the pistol (2,200) to defeat some of those Kevlar NIJ IIIA panels, but many armor types are going hybrid now so it isn't the top of the game for doing that.
did you make a mistake when you said the rock compact weighs 22.6 oz compares to the fullsize weighing 22.6 oz as well? or do they actually weigh the same? would that mean that a standard fullsize rock with a slide with lightening cuts that PSA sells would weigh (slightly) less than the compact version?
I got out the calibrated scale. Without magazines: Compact 22.54oz with .5oz RDS - 21.9oz STD with no Optics cut and adjustable sights: 22.56 oz Threaded RK1: 22.84 oz. They are all very close in weight.
I wish we could post pictures, but I saw a comment in a cmmg Facebook group claiming that “you only have a 5% chance if survival getting shot by a 5.7… anywhere on your body”. I wish I could make this up, and post a picture.
I really appreciate your content. The 5.7 just doesn't work for me, shoot steel targets and the lack of momentum is apparent along with low kinetic energy. I get that it will defeat some body armory but I'm not worried about that. Thanks for your efforts.
@@BuffRANGE 4 inches, I cut a test barrel down from 10 down to 3. Ammo uses was S4M. Once I got under 4 inches the muzzle blast was friggin nuts, FPS was ALL OVER and bullets weren't stabilizing.
@ I have zero faith in it. My eat chance is that you’re testing some kind of freak round and there’s an incident that leaves you completely unharmed while the fiveseven you have is damaged so perfectly that it creates the perfect one of a kind compact fiveseven usg…and then you give it to me
@ For sure. Just wondering if specs are basically the same other than length and what not. I know the G17 barrels won’t go in a 19, but the 19’s will go in a 26. Locking lugs are different and such. Appreciate it man!
I'd just like to have a 5.7 handgun that actually works. I have a Ruger 57 and I've had nothing but problems. It's basically a single shot gun. **Edit: Problem resolved**
@BuffRANGE Most always, the first round doesn't eject, it just remains in the chamber. I have to cycle the action, then *sometimes* it'll fire the rest of the magazine without issue, but rarely. Doesn't matter how I load my magazines or which magazines I use. I have factory and aftermarket.
Its the slightly better version i guess sinse it does the same job and is a tiny bit smaller (arguably pointless), they must've reached the limit for minimum barrel length (for results that critics cant say is 22 Mag equivalent) cuz i was hoping for 3.5in or 4in. 22 Mag in 3.5in would be much more economical at the cost of reliable ammo. So imo they shouldve made a 3.5 22 Mag Rock
I did a LONG review on the Ruger. Ruger threated to sue me. They backed the F down since all I posted was facts. You should checkout my page for my Ruger review. I made a few videos for all the issues the gun has.
@@nickedds2907 .22 mag is still rimfire with the vast majority having the most basic bullets with few if any options. The point being that 5.7 is center fire, has advanced bullet material, designs & options as wells as light years more reliable. The old line that 5.7 is nothing more than a glorified .22 mag is simply ignorant (not toward you)… but if your only concern is cost with no real concern for reliability for plinking at the range, fine but for others who are carrying deep edc backup, 5.7 would be a great choice/option if they ever get around to a 5.7 subcompact or micro/mouse gun.
@@BuffRANGE I’m a big fan of suppressors on rimfire, centerfire rifle, and shotgun, but haven’t come across a realistic option for centerfire pistol. Do you EDC a handgun with suppressor attached?
@ Which is the limiting factor: the trajectory of the particular handgun, or the group size of the particular shooter? A 380 and a 5.7 for example are both zeroed at 25yds. Most shooters transition to center mass when (or long before) the angular measure of a head is narrower than the outside of the rear sights. At 50yds the 380 has dropped 1.5” from POA while the 5.7 is at its far zero and both do no more than poke holes. Does the 100yd drop of 13” versus 4” matter? When the shoulders fit between the rear sights, does it matter that we hold at top of head for one and clavicle for the other? Are we making contact with either at that range? Maybe. Some of us, some of the time. I think you’ll be equally alive with either one and the only real world difference is noise. There are definitely degrees of hearing damage. It doesn’t only concern the user, but bystanders. Also, I think we’ve all witnessed NDs on “cold” ranges.
Hey Buffman, I have had guns for a lot of decades but never owned an AR15 until Trump got shot at and I now have a few of them. I have been using your informative videos for reasearch on performance potential in my own guns. Thanks for posting your results so some of us can get an idea of what we might get from our own guns.
My biggest concern was with the hit to velocity, but very surprised with how little comes off. Neat!!
FYI I've updated the spreadsheet in my campsite for the velocity data if it's hard to read..
that list is from your test, or info you looked up? - armor summary sheet
@@rl4416 I have a google sheet in my campsite for Armor Summary testing, as well as velocity testing. Both of those are data from my own work that I've collected. Is that what you're asking..
@@BuffRANGE yes sir. props on all the work it took.
@@BuffRANGEthanks for all the testing and reviews! Have you done any ballistic testing on the new vanguard round the “FRAG HP”?
@@daledimidome5519 I have not..
Thank you for this review! One of my hopes was to finally see a company make a micro compact 5.7… Few years back I heard back from L.W. Seecamp that he already placing serious consideration in a 5.7 type Seecamp but it was going to be awhile due to how busy they were with current orders. I still hope to see one day soon something nearly the size of a Seecamp, Tomcat or G26 in 5.7. Anyway, thanks again King of 5.7!
Thank you for including ballistics difference this was extremely helpful and you got an immediate subscribe. Please keep this up for all kinds of guns ! Was so easy not having to look up all kinds of information and it all being included
I still believe one of the biggest things holding this caliber back is not having a truly small carry option. Well, that and the still incredibly high cost of ammo.
3 o clock with a cant, compact guns aren't that bigger in grip length in comparison to sub compacts considering MFS always add a magazine extension
@@AdrenalineTheory they’re super thin. The only issue is barrel length and the ammo isn’t that bad if you know where to shop
Thanks for the review Matt!
Any time!
Glad to see it out.
Good video thanks! Minimal velocity reduction for compact size is quite reasonable.
great review. thank you. please now do a review of the X5.7 when released by PSA👍
I'll do my best!
Quick question. I saw that the rock compact brass was hitting the extractor i have the full size rock and the brass always hits my optic housing. Is that a typical thing for the rocks?
I dont mind my optic getting dinged up but was curious.
Yep happens on all 5.7 guns
PSA Pebble
Hey man, do you think you could give some db numbers on the rex mg50? Perhaps recoil reduction if you can somehow measure that and compared to the one without the muzzle brake ring(again if you can get a second one). There’s no information on it online, would be an interesting video to see on a bolt action.
For the rhythm.
Thanks :)
Should have been a 4" barrel. Doesnt seem to be that much smaller. Does it have internal rails for the slide like a cz or is it a tilt barrel?
@@Ben-cb3lu it’s a cam delayed blowback system. Barrel doesn’t tilt but isn’t fixed. Has normal slide rails.
You should try reviewing the Dark Mountain Arms ‘Stowaway’. It’s a single shot 5.7x28mm bolt action with a 5” or 16” barrel that you can detach and swap. New barrels and bolt faces coming too
I believe my TE model is in route to me this week finally
@@BuffRANGE TE model? I feel like I’m missing something I should know
@ sorry Testing and Evaluation model from Dark Mountain :)
@ ohhhh lol. I gotcha. Knew it was obvious🥲. Btw there’s a cartridge holder attachment that you can attach to the picatinny. It holds seven 5.7mm and is sold by CainArms
Do you think the shorter barrel would weaken the ap potential of existing rounds against 3A?
I responded to this but I'm not sure why it deleted it. SS190 nope. 40gr Vmax most definitely. Our copper solids maybe a touch
Glad to see that they did their testing and went with longer barrel, instead of the og compact length of 4”. But to be fair this makes this no longer a compact pistol as the slide alone is longer than the overall length of a Glock 19. Still this will make the cut for a ton of people by offering 9x19 carry performance with way less recoil and more capacity. Let’s hope people watch enough videos on this channel to pick the right ammo
Correct, don't carry FMJ, or SS197 from FN.
Ooooh. I had given up on it coming out.
It is sooo cold out side too😂
Do you think the shorter barrel lower the muzzle velocity enough to limit the ap capability of the 5.7?
In relation to which specific 5.7 round? Ss190 NO. Vmax rounds yes. Boutique copper maybe a little.
@@BuffRANGE Nice, Thank you.
@@BuffRANGE By the by, not sure if you will be at shot show with the family responsibilities and what not, but if you can make it out and bring your son he would love it. It's like Disneyland for gun guys. I'm sure the armor guys would trip getting to meet you.
Excellent!! I have a Rock on is way🤘
Thank ya, thank ya, thank ya!
Was always wondering how well it work with a smaller barrel
And now we know and knowing is half the battle
that looks like a full size lol
hehe it's as small as a G19 :D "Compact" lol
Im thinkin thats about as "compact" as a 5.7 is gonna get.
@@jacksin3323not unless there’s grounding branding new ammo. This is already pushing it which is why it took so long to release
X57 is next!!!
@@BuffRANGE lol. In the age of my current edc ccw P365"X" having that thing in my pants would make something else in my pants very jelous
Why oh why can't PSA fix the dang trigger guard. I hate the significant angled trigger guard
Why do you hate the angled trigger guard?
Well besides the fact that it forces the light out further, I just don't like the aesthetics. I do feel they could get more pic slots in as well.
They sent the King of 5.7 a little friend!
Can you actually shoot the gun with the compact slide on the full size Rock frame? If yes, then I can slice the front dust cover on one of my full size frames to match the compact slide, when PSA starts offering the compact slides separately. I've bought an extra Rock colored frame they recently put on clearance, so I'll slice that one down a little.
I can try for you and see if it does. I don't see why not when everything locked up and worked.
The PSA website says they are not compatible. (Sad trombone)
@@copper178 looks like the relationship of the slide lock is different on the compact vs the full size. I’ll ask PSA if that’s why it says that.
so whats the current best 5.7 round to pierce soft armor today? seems to be the ss198lf still but i dont understand how with it being a hollowpoint? specifically ammo thats commonly available for consumer purchase.
Your best 5.7 ammo to do that would be SS190 but that's not exactly go to the gun store and get it. SO commercially available you have a few options
1. Buy 5.56 cal M855 bullets and roll your own load at 1500 fps..
2. Elite Ammunition T6B, Dev 2.0/3.0
3. Vanguard Outfitters Black Dragon Fang
4. Elite Ammunition S4.
Barring metallic alloys, most soft armor materials can fail to speed or bullet construction. Kevlar/Aramid panels can fail to pointy bullets over 1,700 to 1,800 fps. UHMWPE panels can resist speed, but not bullet construction. Typically pointed solids made of brass or copper in addition to having sufficient speed.
With SS198 it has significant speed from the pistol (2,200) to defeat some of those Kevlar NIJ IIIA panels, but many armor types are going hybrid now so it isn't the top of the game for doing that.
🇺🇸👍🇺🇸💪🇺🇸
Awesome information on the PSA 5.7! Thanks 🙏
You bet
Not my cup of tea but always happy to see a new concept. Somebodies grandma is gonna be happy with this one.
did you make a mistake when you said the rock compact weighs 22.6 oz compares to the fullsize weighing 22.6 oz as well? or do they actually weigh the same?
would that mean that a standard fullsize rock with a slide with lightening cuts that PSA sells would weigh (slightly) less than the compact version?
He said the compact has an optic where as the full did not
I got out the calibrated scale. Without magazines:
Compact 22.54oz with .5oz RDS - 21.9oz
STD with no Optics cut and adjustable sights: 22.56 oz
Threaded RK1: 22.84 oz.
They are all very close in weight.
I wish we could post pictures, but I saw a comment in a cmmg Facebook group claiming that “you only have a 5% chance if survival getting shot by a 5.7… anywhere on your body”. I wish I could make this up, and post a picture.
lol that’s absurd.
@ that’s just a snippet. That guy had a whole tirade of on 556, 300blk, and 6.5 Grendel. If it wasn’t serious, it would be hilarious.
@@ja0298 Probably from the same people who tell you 5.7 over penetrates and you're better off with ball 9mm..
MY COUSIN TOOK 11SHOTS FROM FN 5.7 ….THEN UNALIVED THE ATTACKER WITH A .40CAL …MY COUSIN ONLY LOST A TESTICLE BUT NOW WE CALL HIM BALLBOY
Have you ever had feeding issues with the AAC VMAX? Not just with this new pocket-rocket, but any others, too?
Nope.
I really appreciate your content. The 5.7 just doesn't work for me, shoot steel targets and the lack of momentum is apparent along with low kinetic energy. I get that it will defeat some body armory but I'm not worried about that. Thanks for your efforts.
Indeed. Most of the loads are 265-3XX ft lbs, until you get specialty ammo that could inch towards 400 ft lbs.
I want a 365 sized 57 pistol
They made is shorter barrel but not that much shorter
Correct. I wonder if then any shorter is where it starts dropping off.
@@BuffRANGE 4 inches, I cut a test barrel down from 10 down to 3. Ammo uses was S4M. Once I got under 4 inches the muzzle blast was friggin nuts, FPS was ALL OVER and bullets weren't stabilizing.
@@EliteAmmunition Probably need a 1:8 or 1:7 at that short then.
Been waiting for a compact fiveseven for decades….but I want a fiveseven lol. Preferably usg style but that’s not happening
I doubt FN will ever do it.
@ I have zero faith in it. My eat chance is that you’re testing some kind of freak round and there’s an incident that leaves you completely unharmed while the fiveseven you have is damaged so perfectly that it creates the perfect one of a kind compact fiveseven usg…and then you give it to me
Am I able to place the full size barrel in the compact?
Dimensionally I see no reason you can't. It's the same barrel and I was able to when I was messing around.
@ For sure. Just wondering if specs are basically the same other than length and what not. I know the G17 barrels won’t go in a 19, but the 19’s will go in a 26. Locking lugs are different and such. Appreciate it man!
@@Landoftheignorant No problem In this case the action and barrel are the same, so the barrel locked in justt fine.
FN gang
I'd just like to have a 5.7 handgun that actually works. I have a Ruger 57 and I've had nothing but problems. It's basically a single shot gun.
**Edit: Problem resolved**
What kind of issues is it having?
@BuffRANGE Most always, the first round doesn't eject, it just remains in the chamber. I have to cycle the action, then *sometimes* it'll fire the rest of the magazine without issue, but rarely. Doesn't matter how I load my magazines or which magazines I use. I have factory and aftermarket.
I wish that Ruger and Sig would just get lesbian married, buy a farm in Vermont, and stop making terrible firearms.
@@DantheGunMan1026 What ammo are you using? What temperatures are you typically shooting at?
@BuffRANGE Temperatures, all of the above. Ammo, mostly handloads, but I've also tried factory SS198LF and the typical 40gr AE.
Haha 😂 that’s definitely not a compact!! I got excited for a second
Well it's smaller than the standard :D
Have they beefed up the cam?
To date you're the only person they're aware or at least have told me that have broken cams.
@@BuffRANGE Yeah, I know a few folks since they called me. 2 of them wasn't EA ammo ether.
Its the slightly better version i guess sinse it does the same job and is a tiny bit smaller (arguably pointless), they must've reached the limit for minimum barrel length (for results that critics cant say is 22 Mag equivalent) cuz i was hoping for 3.5in or 4in.
22 Mag in 3.5in would be much more economical at the cost of reliable ammo. So imo they shouldve made a 3.5 22 Mag Rock
22 mag just doesn’t have the pressures needed for pistol or good bullet construction
@BuffRANGE huh interesting, didnt know, id just take a 3.5in 5.7 and be ok with loss in performance then, if thats even possable reliably
@@nickedds2907
👀
I did a LONG review on the Ruger. Ruger threated to sue me. They backed the F down since all I posted was facts. You should checkout my page for my Ruger review. I made a few videos for all the issues the gun has.
@@nickedds2907 .22 mag is still rimfire with the vast majority having the most basic bullets with few if any options. The point being that 5.7 is center fire, has advanced bullet material, designs & options as wells as light years more reliable. The old line that 5.7 is nothing more than a glorified .22 mag is simply ignorant (not toward you)… but if your only concern is cost with no real concern for reliability for plinking at the range, fine but for others who are carrying deep edc backup, 5.7 would be a great choice/option if they ever get around to a 5.7 subcompact or micro/mouse gun.
Idk what you was thinking a half an inch of barrel was going to do? Lol
@@380master9 FN stated for years that going shorter than 4.7 would cause a “massive loss in performance”. ;$
who wanted this? i want one the size of a Glock 43, not a 19…
i’m imagining something super small with huge capacity :)
Interesting, The only thing holding me up from using 5.7 or .357 Sig is losing my hearing in a self-defense shooting 😬
Thanks!
@@melissasmess2773 suppressors help that
@@BuffRANGE I’m a big fan of suppressors on rimfire, centerfire rifle, and shotgun, but haven’t come across a realistic option for centerfire pistol. Do you EDC a handgun with suppressor attached?
@@nickolasthefrognope not EDC. At that point if you’re Alive and hearing is damaged I don’t think caliber will make a diff.
@
Which is the limiting factor: the trajectory of the particular handgun, or the group size of the particular shooter? A 380 and a 5.7 for example are both zeroed at 25yds. Most shooters transition to center mass when (or long before) the angular measure of a head is narrower than the outside of the rear sights. At 50yds the 380 has dropped 1.5” from POA while the 5.7 is at its far zero and both do no more than poke holes. Does the 100yd drop of 13” versus 4” matter? When the shoulders fit between the rear sights, does it matter that we hold at top of head for one and clavicle for the other? Are we making contact with either at that range? Maybe. Some of us, some of the time.
I think you’ll be equally alive with either one and the only real world difference is noise. There are definitely degrees of hearing damage. It doesn’t only concern the user, but bystanders. Also, I think we’ve all witnessed NDs on “cold” ranges.
@@BuffRANGEYou would carry a suppressor on your EDC? That would be huge, have to carry a shopping bag instead of my purse. 😏
Is this guy FR😂 Buffman Review
For real about what sir ?
The difference seems mediocre. Is not like comparing a g19 to a g26 for example. Nah id go with the full size in the case
Too bad there isn't a threaded barrel.
I’m sure there will be
@@BuffRANGE Hey, can you confirm the full size rock’s threaded barrels work in the compact? Thanks!
If only it wasn’t made by psa😭
Yeah hard pass.
I mean if FN made it the front end might snap off lol
Hey Buffman, I have had guns for a lot of decades but never owned an AR15 until Trump got shot at and I now have a few of them. I have been using your informative videos for reasearch on performance potential in my own guns. Thanks for posting your results so some of us can get an idea of what we might get from our own guns.
Naw still too long for me.. Glock 19 or 20 for me..
Does it fit in the regular full size holster
@@Lsd5688 I don’t see why not but I don’t have any Rock specific holsters.