Three loaded coal trains and their manned helpers (plus a bonus manifest) battle the west slope of the famous Sand Patch Grade in Southwestern Pennsylvania on October 17 and 18, 2007.
If you count the former Western Maryland Connellsville Subdivision, there were definitely 3 tracks over the summit. That line was 1 track, and the ex B&O is 2.
keithLD50, The shot of the truss bridge is on the west side of the Sandpatch grade, about 2 miles from the summit, so the train is obviously eastbound, headed for Cumberland. The bridge is near milepost BF 213, just 2 miles east of Meyersdale, PA. I have worked Cumberland to Newcastle for the last 10 years. So far as I know without looking it up, the steepest grade is 1.8%.
I wish they still used those helpers, but on the west slope they now use D8-40C's and sometimes SD70MAC's. Occasionally you may see SD50-2's but not so much anymore. The east slope still uses SD50-2's though I've seen a ES44DC used already.
The grade runs from Salisbary jct to Sand Patch summit a distance of about 5-10 miles. It's not as steep as it's more famous counterpart the east slope but no helpers are required for eastbounds except for very heavy trains i believe
Eastbound trains know when they start their day whether or not they'll need a helper eastbound over the grade. I get my helper on at Connelsville, PA (60 miles away from Sandpatch). We usually pull the head of the train through the Sandpatch tunnel (about 4600 ft. long) and have the helper cut off before descending the east slope down to Cumberland. The Cumberland side runs between 1.5 and 1.8 percent grade for 18 miles with a sag about halfway down.
Absolutely fabulous!!!! That is eastern railroading at its very best. Great job! I notice that they don't have any of the GEVO's trying to do this route with the loaded coal trains. Love those SD70AC's.
"Are stackers or autoracks allowed here?" Yes, we run autoracks all the time. There are very few cars/freight that can't fit the tunnels between Cumberland and Newcastle. There are some locations where there is close clearance for trains to pass, so some restricted freight can't be passed, but tunnels and bridges are good.
@ConrailErie ...ditto conrail, the 2nd train coming up the grade, (before you see it) sounds like it ought to be going 45 or 50, but it's diggin' hard at maybe 25, draggin' a hell of a load ... the ol' SD's rock!!
It came back as 700, but 700, and all the other SD70AC's were renumbered somewhat recently into the 4500's to line up better with the other SD70-series engines on the roster, and I've noticed the newest batch of ES44's took the 700-series slot over. They were doing a bunch of track work between Garrett and Rockwood and the train counts were kinda low because of this. I was happy we didn't get a bunch of Foreign power since I live out west now and it's "normal" to me now, haha.
Great Video! Funny thing is the DP's get irritated that these coal trains aren't making good time up the west slope yet they continue to underpower them out of Connellsville by at least one unit. If these trains had 3 on the head end and 3 shoving they would manage at least 25mph up the mountain and wouldn't tie up the RR
very Great, to heare the Sound of the very hard working Diesel Engines! The overtake is Wonderfull! I drive this Route by MSTS1-Trainsimulator Greating's from Michael,Germany
We run everything under the sun. With traffic down, you think there would be no locomotive availability issues, but I still get an occasional SD40 built in 1966 as my leader. I was born in 1970 for God's sake. I blew out the control stand and lost everything but headlights and radio in the middle of winter. I limped into Newcastle, PA (50 miles north of Pittsburgh) with no heat and freezing. Gotta love the power bureau.
i would be more that happy to see more of this because i find it very relaxing so if you have any more of trains going up the sandpatch like this i would be very greatful
They would need more.... CSX crews have told me they were way too slippery! Evidently the mechanical forces agreed since CSX rebuilt all their AC6000CW's into 4400HP units.
Oh, and as for the GE vs. EMD/GM locos, I prefer the GE's. Most fellow engineers in Cumberland agree, but I'm sure there are EMD fans as well. The first GE hammers did have traction issues on the hill, but the pros outweigh the cons. We also factor in more than just power and performance. I've spent over 20 hrs. in those cabs before, and I'll take a new GE any day. All widebodies are lousy for yard work because of the lag between throttle changes.
@DASCO2136 I remember hearing about that too. It's too bad Chessie abandoned the WM, since the WM's Connellsville Sub had much better grades and clearances than the ex B&O, it's only downfall being that it was single track. However, NS has 3 tracks over the east side of the ex PRR between Altoona and Gallitzin, and I still think CSX/Chessie would have been wise to keep the WM as a 3rd main track.
What is that red glow starting at about 3:54? It starts out real faint, right under the second car. It stays in the same place, for a bit. It gets really bright, then it fades again. It actually stayed under the fifth car or so, moving with it, whereas it had remained stationary at first. It's real faint and hard to see at that point.
@shifta65 Sand Patch isnt on the Pittsburgh-Altoona NS line. This line runs between Cumberland Maryland & Pittsburgh via Connelsville Pennsylvania. There isnt any major train parks like the one on horseshoe curve but CSX knows its a popular line and doesnt mind having railfans taking pictures (just be sure not to trespass). Most of the popular places to visit on Sand Patch arent easily acessable so be sure to be prepared for some long walks for the most part.
Great stuff csxt6573. I whish that CSX would put all the coaltrain over the Mountain Sub. I know the grade is steeper but the Mountain sub is one of my favorite ones.
Is it just me, or does it always seem like most of the railroads or CSX & NS use EMD units for helpers...humm wonder why? Maybe they are more dependable than the GE's??? Great video and great shots! 5*****!
Very nice video, I especially liked the 3 helpers on the rear of the 1st Coal Drag @ 1:50. Do you know why 700 was renumbered to 4500 after the wreck? I'm surprised you didn't see any foreign power that day, Sandpatch almost always gets foreign power leading courtesy of Brand X's chaotic style.
lol that's cause sometimes we have a choice as to which units we want to take and we will always take west facing units if possible. That way the dispatcher wont send us down the hill to cumberland.
in my opinion EMDs sound more suited for drag service....they just have a consistant roar going up the hill while the GEs have the chugging which doesnt sound ok with drags.
Actually, I was hoping the Spirit of Cumberland would come by, as I never got to see it as the 700 before it was wrecked, and about pooped myself when I ralized the 4500 was, the old 700.
@acdcrocker, that bridge is now a hiker/biker trail. It was formerly the mainline (Connellsville Subdivision) of the Western Maryland Railway. Most of that part of the WM was abandoned in 1975.
The east slope is closer to the Cumberland locomotive shop, so when those old EMD clunkers break down, it's easier for them to get back to Cumberland for repairs. The big GE's are a lot newer and probably a lot more reliable.
@meccaturbo It should also be noted that in the late 80s there was a coal mine that needed rail access so part of the WM mainline from the mine to the old B&O main was revived which included the bridge at Keystone. Obviously between now & then the operation has ceased.
If you count the former Western Maryland Connellsville Subdivision, there were definitely 3 tracks over the summit. That line was 1 track, and the ex B&O is 2.
keithLD50,
The shot of the truss bridge is on the west side of the Sandpatch grade, about 2 miles from the summit, so the train is obviously eastbound, headed for Cumberland. The bridge is near milepost BF 213, just 2 miles east of Meyersdale, PA. I have worked Cumberland to Newcastle for the last 10 years. So far as I know without looking it up, the steepest grade is 1.8%.
I wish they still used those helpers, but on the west slope they now use D8-40C's and sometimes SD70MAC's. Occasionally you may see SD50-2's but not so much anymore. The east slope still uses SD50-2's though I've seen a ES44DC used already.
who would dislike this video? this video is pure gold to my ears
The mainfest train was CSX R409, a yearly reroute train.
The grade runs from Salisbary jct to Sand Patch summit a distance of about 5-10 miles. It's not as steep as it's more famous counterpart the east slope but no helpers are required for eastbounds except for very heavy trains i believe
Eastbound trains know when they start their day whether or not they'll need a helper eastbound over the grade. I get my helper on at Connelsville, PA (60 miles away from Sandpatch). We usually pull the head of the train through the Sandpatch tunnel (about 4600 ft. long) and have the helper cut off before descending the east slope down to Cumberland. The Cumberland side runs between 1.5 and 1.8 percent grade for 18 miles with a sag about halfway down.
Absolutely fabulous!!!! That is eastern railroading at its very best. Great job! I notice that they don't have any of the GEVO's trying to do this route with the loaded coal trains. Love those SD70AC's.
At least they still use SD50s & SD40-2s for helper assignments on Sand Patch
yeah because it looks like there was a track bed there.
"Are stackers or autoracks allowed here?"
Yes, we run autoracks all the time. There are very few cars/freight that can't fit the tunnels between Cumberland and Newcastle. There are some locations where there is close clearance for trains to pass, so some restricted freight can't be passed, but tunnels and bridges are good.
@ConrailErie ...ditto conrail, the 2nd train coming up the grade, (before you see it) sounds like it ought to be going 45 or 50, but it's diggin' hard at maybe 25, draggin' a hell of a load ... the ol' SD's rock!!
GE's sound the best when they are pulling up hill. No other locomotive can compete
Not currently, no. However, they did, before being sold to the Indiana Southern. It was a GP40 - the last active CSX unit in Western Maryland paint.
You are correct. From Sand patch down to near Meyersdale, as I recall, there were 3 tracks.
Wow...listen to those engines fighting that grade......that a lot of weight!!
Man, those coal trains just crawl up that hill. How steep is the grade?
It came back as 700, but 700, and all the other SD70AC's were renumbered somewhat recently into the 4500's to line up better with the other SD70-series engines on the roster, and I've noticed the newest batch of ES44's took the 700-series slot over. They were doing a bunch of track work between Garrett and Rockwood and the train counts were kinda low because of this. I was happy we didn't get a bunch of Foreign power since I live out west now and it's "normal" to me now, haha.
Great Video! Funny thing is the DP's get irritated that these coal trains aren't making good time up the west slope yet they continue to underpower them out of Connellsville by at least one unit. If these trains had 3 on the head end and 3 shoving they would manage at least 25mph up the mountain and wouldn't tie up the RR
Wow...The season is perfect....What more could ya ask for....Thanx for sharing
very Great, to heare the Sound of the very hard working Diesel Engines! The overtake is Wonderfull! I drive this Route by MSTS1-Trainsimulator
Greating's from Michael,Germany
We run everything under the sun. With traffic down, you think there would be no locomotive availability issues, but I still get an occasional SD40 built in 1966 as my leader. I was born in 1970 for God's sake. I blew out the control stand and lost everything but headlights and radio in the middle of winter. I limped into Newcastle, PA (50 miles north of Pittsburgh) with no heat and freezing. Gotta love the power bureau.
This is a great video. I'm planninga trip to Sand Patch next summer, I can't wait. This vid has got me ready to go now,lol. 5* rating!
i would be more that happy to see more of this because i find it very relaxing so if you have any more of trains going up the sandpatch like this i would be very greatful
Great video...thanks for sharing this with all!!!
They would need more.... CSX crews have told me they were way too slippery! Evidently the mechanical forces agreed since CSX rebuilt all their AC6000CW's into 4400HP units.
Oh, and as for the GE vs. EMD/GM locos, I prefer the GE's. Most fellow engineers in Cumberland agree, but I'm sure there are EMD fans as well. The first GE hammers did have traction issues on the hill, but the pros outweigh the cons.
We also factor in more than just power and performance. I've spent over 20 hrs. in those cabs before, and I'll take a new GE any day. All widebodies are lousy for yard work because of the lag between throttle changes.
sand patch is amazing---well worth a rail fan's visit
i love the sound of the EMDs working upgrade
Super video. This has actualy been shown in ModelRailroader as a potential small layout; with the steep grades...
@DASCO2136 I remember hearing about that too. It's too bad Chessie abandoned the WM, since the WM's Connellsville Sub had much better grades and clearances than the ex B&O, it's only downfall being that it was single track. However, NS has 3 tracks over the east side of the ex PRR between Altoona and Gallitzin, and I still think CSX/Chessie would have been wise to keep the WM as a 3rd main track.
What is that red glow starting at about 3:54? It starts out real faint, right under the second car. It stays in the same place, for a bit. It gets really bright, then it fades again. It actually stayed under the fifth car or so, moving with it, whereas it had remained stationary at first. It's real faint and hard to see at that point.
I liked the patch job on the 4500. You must have just noticed it when you panned.
@shifta65 Sand Patch isnt on the Pittsburgh-Altoona NS line. This line runs between Cumberland Maryland & Pittsburgh via Connelsville Pennsylvania. There isnt any major train parks like the one on horseshoe curve but CSX knows its a popular line and doesnt mind having railfans taking pictures (just be sure not to trespass). Most of the popular places to visit on Sand Patch arent easily acessable so be sure to be prepared for some long walks for the most part.
Great stuff csxt6573. I whish that CSX would put all the coaltrain over the Mountain Sub. I know the grade is steeper but the Mountain sub is one of my favorite ones.
Because it's one of most famous names in American Railroading
love the horn sound, and the coal trains as well. But there should been more horn.
Is it just me, or does it always seem like most of the railroads or CSX & NS use EMD units for helpers...humm wonder why? Maybe they are more dependable than the GE's???
Great video and great shots! 5*****!
Isnt EMDs more prefered for the heavy loaded drags that come over the hills to the west of Cumberland?
Odd how CSX runs their helpers elephant style, but NS and most other normal RR's run them back to back.
Probably my favorite Sand Patch video. Very good!
Wasn't there a third track that was in place between Myersdale & Sandpatch?
Very nice video, I especially liked the 3 helpers on the rear of the 1st Coal Drag @ 1:50. Do you know why 700 was renumbered to 4500 after the wreck?
I'm surprised you didn't see any foreign power that day, Sandpatch almost always gets foreign power leading courtesy of Brand X's chaotic style.
Glade City, PA - just about a mile to the west.
lol that's cause sometimes we have a choice as to which units we want to take and we will always take west facing units if possible. That way the dispatcher wont send us down the hill to cumberland.
am i correct that there used to be three tracks up the grade?
just an awesome video by the way.
Lucky you then. You could see where the 7 used to be and they added a 45 to it.
in my opinion EMDs sound more suited for drag service....they just have a consistant roar going up the hill while the GEs have the chugging which doesnt sound ok with drags.
looks like they have to double the mountain which means take the train up in 2 maybe 3 sections so as to avoid a runaaway
Thought it was camera glare, but then it starting moving.
Im going here next week!
The second coal train you caught is U306
Took a lot of photos at hynman and fair hope years ago.
Its glare from the headlight - its moving because, obviously the train is.
Actually, I was hoping the Spirit of Cumberland would come by, as I never got to see it as the 700 before it was wrecked, and about pooped myself when I ralized the 4500 was, the old 700.
This is good stuff .. 9000 HP pulling, 3 SD-40 helpers pushing ... the Sand Patch grade is one of the steepest
Those 3 x SD-40 are a must for slowing that train after the tunnel.
Oh.....Do you know by some chance any CSX mainline where you see EMDs more often than GEs in drag service?
probaly because in the first shot it looks like there used to be a third track
great video
5 stars and a favortie
Does 3 units on a 150 car empty hopper train considered overpowered?
Great video! I loved the scenery! Where was this filmed?
@boweandrew3 No, no doubling of the hill in this video...
Excellent job!
Where in PA is this exactly?
Those bad boys are LOADED!
yea theyre awesome
@acdcrocker, that bridge is now a hiker/biker trail. It was formerly the mainline (Connellsville Subdivision) of the Western Maryland Railway. Most of that part of the WM was abandoned in 1975.
that is just a fantastic video.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do you know why it was taken out?
Long live king coal. Trump 2016
The east slope is closer to the Cumberland locomotive shop, so when those old EMD clunkers break down, it's easier for them to get back to Cumberland for repairs. The big GE's are a lot newer and probably a lot more reliable.
wat route is this?
That is a steep a** grade!!!
@meccaturbo It should also be noted that in the late 80s there was a coal mine that needed rail access so part of the WM mainline from the mine to the old B&O main was revived which included the bridge at Keystone. Obviously between now & then the operation has ceased.
oh ok thx
love it
Sandpatch
Way cool!! (Earthworm Jim).
The second train runied it. Nice coal trains