You are quickly becoming one of my favorite coffee channels! I think, after James Hoffman, the best. Super complete, nuanced, beautiful shots, honest, and super interesting new takes.
Having used the Flair 58 for the past couple of months, after having used the Signature before, I fully agree with your arguments to upgrade. The workflow is so much better and the versatility of 58mm tools makes for much better and easier shots!
I appreciate these highly comprehensive reviews including things i too have found very useful. Having used the classic for several years and now the 58 as well, id say its definitely worth the upgrade for the daily workflow improvements
Superb, detailed video, well done! You briefly discussed optional 3rd party upgrades. Would love to see another video of your recommendations for after market upgrades for flair 58
Great work again Namisha & Raghunath! I'm also switching between the old and new workflow, of course the new way allows for pause/refill if you want to do a spro-over or something like that. That controller is ugly, but I'm very happy with what it does for me! 😉
Having owned a 2,000 dollar Rocket Espresso machine for 8 years, we are coming to a lever machine so we can decrease the yearly maintenance fees that a semi- automatic requires. And, I'm having a blast creating my own pull profiles as I'm so dialed into the beans we get from PT's espresso. It's been a week with it, so far I love the simplicity of the machine that in the same hand offers the barista a creative unique "feeling of the pull". Cheers great video ! Ty
@@Shreybz yes i ended up chosing the Robot because no preheateing really needed. I took the pressure gage but not as accurate as the Flair and to be honest i m not using it anymore.
Oh, Flair there. Hi Flair! :D I have still my NEO, upgraded to Classic with buying bottomles basket. And now I have bought an pressure kit so I have Signature model from it now :D
Looks are subjective and for the record we like it too. We were just pointing out how it differs aesthetically from flair’s other products. It’s just a little less refined overall.
i appreciate you guys sharing your workflow involving the plunger and dosing amount; it’s helpful for helping other troubleshoot any flow issues. i believe Andrew from Flair has mentioned in Flair’s Instagram Live that they are developing a milk steamer. i’m looking forward to that as well
I really really hope they do, I know a lot of people with Decent machines are dying for a separate milk steamer but Decent has so far said they're never planning on making one.
Okay so I deleted my last comment because you’re review was ultimately very good. Your workflow section was done so well and to the point. Thanks for such a high quality and detailed review. For now I’m sticking with my Robot that I bought in December but if I ever get tired of it then the 58 will be my next purchase.
Thank you for revising your comment. We try to be as transparent possible and while your skepticism is absolutely, valid we're glad you watched the video and found it helpful. Also, the Robot is an excellent machine.
Great review absolutely loved it...I am considering Pro2 or 58/58x as my first espresso machine, and I already have 1Zpresso JX Pro grinder. Do you think 58 will pair with JX Pro or I should just go with Pro2 to be on safer side ?
It boils down to time, effort and micro adjustments. You'll be grinding quite a bit finer with the 58. Also, small adjustments will have a bigger impact with a 58mm basket than a smaller one. So if you can find out the rough grind setting that people are using with the 58 then you try grinding at that setting and see if you're ok doing that 1, 2 or how many ever times a day. Also the JX Pro is not step-less so you may find it a bit challenging to really dial in. Hope that's helpful.
very informative video just on point... i use flair 58 daily for 6 months approximately. It is my first machine and i am completely satisfied. My grinder is lagom p64 so everything you need is a capable grinder and a little effort and the outcome is very pleasant. it combines quality, ease of workflow minimum maintenance. No milk but there are many extra options about this as flair's new milk steamer is about to be announced in this year.
Great video!! Great tip about the lifting the arm during pre-heating, smart! Im still waiting on my Flair 58 to arrive and curious about the pre-heating. Most advise, like you, to take your time to pre-heat, but wouldn’t it be possible to speed it up? What would happen if you would use a blind basket, fill the chamber with boiling water and be ready in minutes? We live in a fast world 😉
An excellent review, well done! Learnt a few workflow tips that will come handy since I have a similar setup. How many clicks on the Comandante do you recommend for the Flair 58?
I paused at 1:17 for one very important reason: you asked for a like ONLY if we find the video helpful. That is a pleasant change from the usual demands to "smash that like button" right at the beginning. For this, you get a like and a subscribe.
HI, really like your video. Since the Commandante is very expensive, are there any lower priced grinder that i can use? For example, is the Timemore Chestnut C2 capable for this brewer? Thanks!
Unfortunately the 58mm basket requires a very fine grind and even the C40 takes a long time to grind. So the C2 will struggle with brewer. If you’re looking to hand grind then check out the J max.
Super review guys. I have the 58 (old version) and am still struggling with sourness in the shots. I thought it must be an issue of pre-heating, but even after getting everything really hot (20 minute pre-heat like you recommend) and using the highest heat setting, the shots are still sour. Any suggestions?
I have a Gaggia Classic and am looking to side-grade to a manual machine just so I can feel the brewing process more directly. I think I'll pick it up, and will have to get the nano foamer to make up for the classic's (frankly lacking) steamer. Thanks for the high quality review, I found your channel from when you made a video on James Hoffman's channel last year and I've really enjoyed your output!
Great video! 👍 Well thought out presentation that shared specific reasoning on features of the Flair 58 in light of different goals we are looking for in coffee! Looking forward to future videos!
Beautifully made and detailed .. if not for the work flow I really like my pro 2. 58 really cuts down the preheating mess I create .. I wish Flair gives an option to exchange pro2 with 58 for a exchange price .. but again great video .. I recommend my fellow brewers to see this video aramse! Cheers ! Happy brewing !
The video I'd been waiting for :) thanks guys for the wonderful summary. I'm quite convinced of upgrading my pro2 to the 58. And I have a similar setup as you guys have with the comandante red clix. I do have a fair number of milk based drinks so thinking of combining it with the bellman since I haven't particularly enjoyed using the nanofoamer...
I use the 58 and the bellman and to be honest, I have yet to find a workflow that works for me to get everything ready for a cappuccino at close to the same time. I love the 58, but if I were more interested in making milk drinks, I don't think I'd like it nearly so much.
@@mithunfan The two biggest problems are just managing multiple things boiling at once, and the fact that it's impossible to finish the milk and the coffee at around the same time. When I'm managing the Bellman, I never feel like I'm paying enough attention to the espresso as I'm pulling it, but if you steam the milk first, the foam and milk will separate by the time you pull your shot. That said, I do work as a barista and maybe my perspective on this is spoiled by the machine I get to use at work.
I have both the Flair 58 & Bellman. The results are fantastic. It’s a setup for one person. 1. Preheat Flair and start heating Bellman (induction hob) with steam valve open 2. Fill pitcher with milk, grind beans, fill Stag stovetop kettle 3. Close steam valve on Bellman at 1.5 bar and remove from heat at 2 bar 4. Put Stag kettle on induction hob 5. Use steam from kettle to preheat portafilter 6. Reduce heat to maintain temp 7. Preheat cup with water 8. Prepare flair to pull shot 9. Put bellman back on, steam valve slightly open, low heat to maintain 1.5 bar 10. Pull shot 11. Steam milk (raise temp to maintain 1.5bar) 12. Pour 13. Clean up Sounds very complicated but the timings are spot on. All in all including clean up it takes 13 minutes. Okay for one person but a lot going on. I sold my Europiccola for this setup and I’ve just bought a Esperto Abile to potentially replace it Why? The La Pavoni is just so much nicer to use, it’s got character and feel. The flair I don’t find very nice to use at all, it’s dead feeling to me, I feel disconnected from the pull in comparison to the LP’s (Saying that I might still keep the flair 😂)
Loving your content your review really contrasts with James Hoffmann’s review. I’m in the hunting for one of these and this is the video that I definitely needed to watch. Keep on going the good work!
@@aramse Are you using the high float (precision maybe) basket? Do you know your grinding time with each of the grinders for a shot? I’m trying to decide which hand grinder to pair with the Flair 58 :)
This is one of the best vdo on flair58 on youtube (maybe top 5 imo). THIS DESERVE MORE VIEWS. Very informative and concise word choice. I also learnt new things from this vid (like how u save water with raising the bar less). I definitely agree preferring the old workflow to fill water. However 1 question, for the first workflow (plunger down first), i wonder if the puck intgredity will b affected or not if we pull the plunger up? I imagine its like vacuuming the coffee up somehow
Can the C40 grind for espresso? Absolutely Is it fun? Nope It’s a slow grinder and you’ll need the red clix upgrade to be able to dial in properly. It’s doable but isn’t particularly enjoyable.
@@aramse woah you answered so fast man, thank you!!!! ☺️ May I ask again, so what manual grinder you think is good to pair with Flair 58? I’m a traveller and I prefer to buy manual hand grinder rather than machine. Thanks once again for your amazing reply. Love your content ❤️
@@caesienyang the JMax is excellent if you enjoy more traditional style espresso with great body and sweetness and the Kmax is excellent if you enjoy more clarity at the expense of a little body. They both have bigger burrs and grind considerably faster. The Jmax is even a bit faster than kmax.
Ooops. I accidentally hit dislike while attempting to hit the like button. I re-tapped the dislike button to deselect and correctly hit the like button. Hopefully this doesn’t register as a dislike!! Great video. Thank you
for me the 9Barista is a superior espresso maker and apart from being an engineering marvel produces consistently great espresso which really what ultimately what it is all about plus with a better workflow.. the Flair 58X is a huge disappointment - fiddly, ungainly with a rubber mat and rubber covering of the brewing chamber looking cheap and attracting dust plus lukewarm average to poor quality espresso shots.... of course completely my view and probably many may disagree
Maybe a dumb question, when you're talking about the combination of preheat and water temperature to combine for brew temperature, were you using a device to measure the water in the brew chamber and then charting that against how much you liked the taste in the cup? I'm on a robot but when I brought a wacaco picopresso on holidays I found I liked the taste of some coffees a lot more. This may have been down to the water minerals from the tap but the other thing I can think of is that the temperature must be different between the robot and the picopresso during the brew. I'm going to do something simple and just run a shot through both and measure the temperature in the resulting cup to get a rough idea if the robot is brewing hotter and then adjust accordingly. Up til now I've been just brewing with water right off the boil and I wonder is that making my shots worse than they could be at a lower temp!
So here's how we measured - We locked in a blind basket (no holes), let the 58 preheat for 20 - 25 mins to stabilise. We set the kettle to the desired temp. Then it typically takes us around 45 secs between filling the chamber and pulling the shot so we filled up the chamber, waited 45 secs and measured the temperature a few cm above the basket. Then we used the same settings to dial in a particular coffee. It's important to note that the actual temperature measured is less important than what that combo does for your coffee. Hope that's helpful.
@@aramse I got you. I'll have to see will the picopresso spill all over the place if I use it with the top left off, otherwise there's no way to get a probe in there and I'd only be able to measure the temperature in the cup. Maybe it's good enough to work from the bottom up and say the pico ends up being 5 degrees lower when it gets to the cup than the robot, at least it's enough to start experimenting with. Much appreciated for the testing info!
You are quickly becoming one of my favorite coffee channels! I think, after James Hoffman, the best. Super complete, nuanced, beautiful shots, honest, and super interesting new takes.
Hey thank you so much. It's comments like these that keep us going.
Having used the Flair 58 for the past couple of months, after having used the Signature before, I fully agree with your arguments to upgrade. The workflow is so much better and the versatility of 58mm tools makes for much better and easier shots!
I appreciate these highly comprehensive reviews including things i too have found very useful. Having used the classic for several years and now the 58 as well, id say its definitely worth the upgrade for the daily workflow improvements
Superb, detailed video, well done! You briefly discussed optional 3rd party upgrades. Would love to see another video of your recommendations for after market upgrades for flair 58
Hi , i have the signature classic my self! Does the 58 produce that much better tasting espresso ?
Great work again Namisha & Raghunath! I'm also switching between the old and new workflow, of course the new way allows for pause/refill if you want to do a spro-over or something like that. That controller is ugly, but I'm very happy with what it does for me! 😉
Having owned a 2,000 dollar Rocket Espresso machine for 8 years, we are coming to a lever machine so we can decrease the yearly maintenance fees that a semi- automatic requires. And, I'm having a blast creating my own pull profiles as I'm so dialed into the beans we get from PT's espresso. It's been a week with it, so far I love the simplicity of the machine that in the same hand offers the barista a creative unique "feeling of the pull". Cheers great video ! Ty
You don't need to ask for likes, I always instantly like your video's because I know they will be good! :D
I exchanged my 58X for Cafelat Robot... great decision.
Hello sash. I m hesitating in between the robot and the 58! Can you tell me what you like more in the robot ?
@@jeremieyirmeyahu3468 did you end up with the robot? What’d you think? (I have the robot and love it)
@@Shreybz yes i ended up chosing the Robot because no preheateing really needed. I took the pressure gage but not as accurate as the Flair and to be honest i m not using it anymore.
you should review the Cafelat Robot and maybe do a comparison to the Flair
Oh, Flair there. Hi Flair! :D
I have still my NEO, upgraded to Classic with buying bottomles basket. And now I have bought an pressure kit so I have Signature model from it now :D
I always thought it looked like a really beautiful machine. I don’t understand some people criticizing the aesthetics. Looks like an art sculpture
Looks are subjective and for the record we like it too. We were just pointing out how it differs aesthetically from flair’s other products. It’s just a little less refined overall.
Awesome review. I've been using the 58 for quite some time now, and you guys nailed down all the details. Great to see how far this channel has come!
Thank you! since you're asking questions: have you tested the Flair with 1-cup baskets (e.g. IMS 7-8.5g or 8-10g)?
i appreciate you guys sharing your workflow involving the plunger and dosing amount; it’s helpful for helping other troubleshoot any flow issues.
i believe Andrew from Flair has mentioned in Flair’s Instagram Live that they are developing a milk steamer. i’m looking forward to that as well
I really really hope they do, I know a lot of people with Decent machines are dying for a separate milk steamer but Decent has so far said they're never planning on making one.
Amazing video, guys! As always. I shouldn't be impressed but I am!
this is verry helpfull it took me 2 days to fix thing's
Thank you for the great video. I picked up a few workflow tips that I'm excited to try.
I have had the best experience working with Benki brewing tools . The team is super helpful and has great service to it customers
Hey your videos are awesome, what's your recommended grind size for kmax for flair 58?
Okay so I deleted my last comment because you’re review was ultimately very good. Your workflow section was done so well and to the point. Thanks for such a high quality and detailed review. For now I’m sticking with my Robot that I bought in December but if I ever get tired of it then the 58 will be my next purchase.
Thank you for revising your comment. We try to be as transparent possible and while your skepticism is absolutely, valid we're glad you watched the video and found it helpful. Also, the Robot is an excellent machine.
Great and honest review of the Flair 58, probably the best made so far. Well done!
"I was so excited to pull the shot I forgot to use a cup" hahaha =]
Happens way too often.
Great review absolutely loved it...I am considering Pro2 or 58/58x as my first espresso machine, and I already have 1Zpresso JX Pro grinder. Do you think 58 will pair with JX Pro or I should just go with Pro2 to be on safer side ?
It boils down to time, effort and micro adjustments. You'll be grinding quite a bit finer with the 58. Also, small adjustments will have a bigger impact with a 58mm basket than a smaller one. So if you can find out the rough grind setting that people are using with the 58 then you try grinding at that setting and see if you're ok doing that 1, 2 or how many ever times a day. Also the JX Pro is not step-less so you may find it a bit challenging to really dial in. Hope that's helpful.
very informative video just on point... i use flair 58 daily for 6 months approximately. It is my first machine and i am completely satisfied. My grinder is lagom p64 so everything you need is a capable grinder and a little effort and the outcome is very pleasant. it combines quality, ease of workflow minimum maintenance. No milk but there are many extra options about this as flair's new milk steamer is about to be announced in this year.
The 58 + the P64 is a killer setup!
Great video!! Great tip about the lifting the arm during pre-heating, smart!
Im still waiting on my Flair 58 to arrive and curious about the pre-heating. Most advise, like you, to take your time to pre-heat, but wouldn’t it be possible to speed it up? What would happen if you would use a blind basket, fill the chamber with boiling water and be ready in minutes? We live in a fast world 😉
Yup, in a pinch you can definitely speed up the pre heat by filling the chamber with boiling hot water.
An excellent review, well done! Learnt a few workflow tips that will come handy since I have a similar setup. How many clicks on the Comandante do you recommend for the Flair 58?
Anywhere between 12 and 20 clicks (Red Clix) depending on the roast level and freshness.
I’m not bothered about the temperature controller at all. I mean, u press it just a couple of times and that’s it, no drama.
Good detailed video 👌☕
Ayy fancy seeing you here bro
Hahahah
I paused at 1:17 for one very important reason: you asked for a like ONLY if we find the video helpful. That is a pleasant change from the usual demands to "smash that like button" right at the beginning. For this, you get a like and a subscribe.
Great review. Enjoying your channel. Thanks
Nicely done!
The thumbnail is STUNNING
Thank you!
HI, really like your video. Since the Commandante is very expensive, are there any lower priced grinder that i can use? For example, is the Timemore Chestnut C2 capable for this brewer? Thanks!
Unfortunately the 58mm basket requires a very fine grind and even the C40 takes a long time to grind. So the C2 will struggle with brewer. If you’re looking to hand grind then check out the J max.
@@aramse Thank you very much for the reply. Like your videos!!!
@@aramsehow about the timemore chestnut C3 ?
This product Bangladesh available???
Super review guys. I have the 58 (old version) and am still struggling with sourness in the shots. I thought it must be an issue of pre-heating, but even after getting everything really hot (20 minute pre-heat like you recommend) and using the highest heat setting, the shots are still sour. Any suggestions?
could try a finer grind
@@kenm116 Thanks Ken. Tried that but it didn't really make much of a difference.
after my call today-unfortunately no shipping to Nepal ...
Excellent video! Thanks for this! Is the included portafilter made of aluminum or chrome plated brass?
Can you provide more details on that metal saucer that you used on top of the kettle to heat up the basket? I want one! Thanks
I have a Gaggia Classic and am looking to side-grade to a manual machine just so I can feel the brewing process more directly. I think I'll pick it up, and will have to get the nano foamer to make up for the classic's (frankly lacking) steamer.
Thanks for the high quality review, I found your channel from when you made a video on James Hoffman's channel last year and I've really enjoyed your output!
Simply excellent videos. Thank you!
Great video! 👍
Well thought out presentation that shared specific reasoning on features of the Flair 58 in light of different goals we are looking for in coffee!
Looking forward to future videos!
Beautifully made and detailed .. if not for the work flow I really like my pro 2. 58 really cuts down the preheating mess I create .. I wish Flair gives an option to exchange pro2 with 58 for a exchange price .. but again great video .. I recommend my fellow brewers to see this video aramse! Cheers ! Happy brewing !
Awesome video! I've been using the Flair 58 for a few months now and still learned a few things. Thanks for the thorough, objective presentation!
The video I'd been waiting for :) thanks guys for the wonderful summary. I'm quite convinced of upgrading my pro2 to the 58. And I have a similar setup as you guys have with the comandante red clix. I do have a fair number of milk based drinks so thinking of combining it with the bellman since I haven't particularly enjoyed using the nanofoamer...
I use the 58 and the bellman and to be honest, I have yet to find a workflow that works for me to get everything ready for a cappuccino at close to the same time. I love the 58, but if I were more interested in making milk drinks, I don't think I'd like it nearly so much.
@@SidneyKochman thanks for writing in. May I know what part of the workflow isnt working for you?
@@mithunfan The two biggest problems are just managing multiple things boiling at once, and the fact that it's impossible to finish the milk and the coffee at around the same time. When I'm managing the Bellman, I never feel like I'm paying enough attention to the espresso as I'm pulling it, but if you steam the milk first, the foam and milk will separate by the time you pull your shot.
That said, I do work as a barista and maybe my perspective on this is spoiled by the machine I get to use at work.
I have both the Flair 58 & Bellman. The results are fantastic. It’s a setup for one person.
1. Preheat Flair and start heating Bellman (induction hob) with steam valve open
2. Fill pitcher with milk, grind beans, fill Stag stovetop kettle
3. Close steam valve on Bellman at 1.5 bar and remove from heat at 2 bar
4. Put Stag kettle on induction hob
5. Use steam from kettle to preheat portafilter
6. Reduce heat to maintain temp
7. Preheat cup with water
8. Prepare flair to pull shot
9. Put bellman back on, steam valve slightly open, low heat to maintain 1.5 bar
10. Pull shot
11. Steam milk (raise temp to maintain 1.5bar)
12. Pour
13. Clean up
Sounds very complicated but the timings are spot on. All in all including clean up it takes 13 minutes. Okay for one person but a lot going on.
I sold my Europiccola for this setup and I’ve just bought a Esperto Abile to potentially replace it
Why?
The La Pavoni is just so much nicer to use, it’s got character and feel. The flair I don’t find very nice to use at all, it’s dead feeling to me, I feel disconnected from the pull in comparison to the LP’s
(Saying that I might still keep the flair 😂)
awesome b roll of the machine dig it!
Is your average shot on the Pro 2 tastier than the average 58 shot? I noticed you mentioned it was less forgiving.
Not really. If you have a good grinder and workflow you'll get similar consistency with both.
Loving your content your review really contrasts with James Hoffmann’s review. I’m in the hunting for one of these and this is the video that I definitely needed to watch. Keep on going the good work!
Thank you!
Thank you for another high quality, comprehensive review! I discovered your channel a few months ago now, and I'm very glad I did.
Thank you!
Hi! Did you also use the J-Max grinder with the Flair or only the Comandante?
We absolutely use the J-Max too. Both are very capable and produce pretty different profiles in the cups.
@@aramse Are you using the high float (precision maybe) basket? Do you know your grinding time with each of the grinders for a shot? I’m trying to decide which hand grinder to pair with the Flair 58 :)
This is one of the best vdo on flair58 on youtube (maybe top 5 imo). THIS DESERVE MORE VIEWS. Very informative and concise word choice. I also learnt new things from this vid (like how u save water with raising the bar less). I definitely agree preferring the old workflow to fill water.
However 1 question, for the first workflow (plunger down first), i wonder if the puck intgredity will b affected or not if we pull the plunger up? I imagine its like vacuuming the coffee up somehow
Hey not at all. When pulling up the valve is open so no vacuum will be created.
I have comandante c40. Mk4 can I pair with it to create a great espresso?
Can the C40 grind for espresso? Absolutely
Is it fun? Nope
It’s a slow grinder and you’ll need the red clix upgrade to be able to dial in properly. It’s doable but isn’t particularly enjoyable.
@@aramse woah you answered so fast man, thank you!!!! ☺️
May I ask again, so what manual grinder you think is good to pair with Flair 58? I’m a traveller and I prefer to buy manual hand grinder rather than machine. Thanks once again for your amazing reply. Love your content ❤️
@@caesienyang the JMax is excellent if you enjoy more traditional style espresso with great body and sweetness and the Kmax is excellent if you enjoy more clarity at the expense of a little body. They both have bigger burrs and grind considerably faster. The Jmax is even a bit faster than kmax.
@@aramse yeah actually I keep thinking to opt for JMax for espresso and pour over for Comandante. J-Max it is 😎 thanks Aramse! Really appreciate it.
Ooops. I accidentally hit dislike while attempting to hit the like button. I re-tapped the dislike button to deselect and correctly hit the like button. Hopefully this doesn’t register as a dislike!!
Great video. Thank you
"Is This The Best Lever Espresso Machine?" It seems to me that the Olympia Cremina is still the best lever espresso machine.
for me the 9Barista is a superior espresso maker and apart from being an engineering marvel produces consistently great espresso which really what ultimately what it is all about plus with a better workflow.. the Flair 58X is a huge disappointment - fiddly, ungainly with a rubber mat and rubber covering of the brewing chamber looking cheap and attracting dust plus lukewarm average to poor quality espresso shots.... of course completely my view and probably many may disagree
Maybe a dumb question, when you're talking about the combination of preheat and water temperature to combine for brew temperature, were you using a device to measure the water in the brew chamber and then charting that against how much you liked the taste in the cup? I'm on a robot but when I brought a wacaco picopresso on holidays I found I liked the taste of some coffees a lot more. This may have been down to the water minerals from the tap but the other thing I can think of is that the temperature must be different between the robot and the picopresso during the brew. I'm going to do something simple and just run a shot through both and measure the temperature in the resulting cup to get a rough idea if the robot is brewing hotter and then adjust accordingly. Up til now I've been just brewing with water right off the boil and I wonder is that making my shots worse than they could be at a lower temp!
So here's how we measured - We locked in a blind basket (no holes), let the 58 preheat for 20 - 25 mins to stabilise. We set the kettle to the desired temp. Then it typically takes us around 45 secs between filling the chamber and pulling the shot so we filled up the chamber, waited 45 secs and measured the temperature a few cm above the basket. Then we used the same settings to dial in a particular coffee. It's important to note that the actual temperature measured is less important than what that combo does for your coffee. Hope that's helpful.
@@aramse I got you. I'll have to see will the picopresso spill all over the place if I use it with the top left off, otherwise there's no way to get a probe in there and I'd only be able to measure the temperature in the cup. Maybe it's good enough to work from the bottom up and say the pico ends up being 5 degrees lower when it gets to the cup than the robot, at least it's enough to start experimenting with. Much appreciated for the testing info!